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by **Spohawk5092** » Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:10 am

I have been trying in vain to find the article I read in my Spokane newspaper sports section this morning about the state of the Hawks, if I do find it later online I will post it. There is infighting, finger pointing, he said, he said going on right now, and a whole lot of frustration...........from Carroll on down.

as I have said before many times, its time for a complete and total housecleaning from top to bottom, to get this team back to where it should be and needs to be, and that is winning again!!!

I found it:
this is painful to read:

https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/n ... 83968.html

by **RiverDog** » Sun Dec 17, 2023 9:19 am

Spohawk5092 wrote:I have been trying in vain to find the article I read in my Spokane newspaper sports section this morning about the state of the Hawks, if I do find it later online I will post it. There is infighting, finger pointing, he said, he said going on right now, and a whole lot of frustration...........from Carroll on down.

as I have said before many times, its time for a complete and total housecleaning from top to bottom, to get this team back to where it should be and needs to be, and that is winning again!!!

I've heard similar rumors. It makes sense as we've lost 4 in a row and 5 of the past 6, and as we all know, losing brings out the worst in players/coaches just as winning cures nearly all evils. We should get a good idea as to how much truth there is to them tomorrow night.

But I wouldn't hold my breath on a housecleaning.

by **c_hawkbob** » Sun Dec 17, 2023 11:19 am

I agree with Bobby:

I think it’s when you go on a four-game losing streak everybody tries to find something, tries to create the reason, especially people that’s not in the locker room. They try to come up with the reason, because you try to figure out what is going wrong. “And so, you can name a player, you can name this, you could do that. Winning cures all of that. The moment you win, then it’s a whole different story.

by **Spohawk5092** » Sun Dec 17, 2023 11:56 am

te]I think it’s when you go on a four-game losing streak everybody tries to find something, tries to create the reason, especially people that’s not in the locker room. They try to come up with the reason, because you try to figure out what is going wrong. “And so, you can name a player, you can name this, you could do that. Winning cures all of that. The moment you win, then it’s a whole different story.
[/quote][/quote]

So then the question becomes....why haven't you??????

by **Aseahawkfan** » Sun Dec 17, 2023 1:57 pm

This team has been on this type of descent for a while now. Roster management has been terrible for years since Pete and John started trying to cure the team with bad trades and not being successful in the draft, it's reached the point where it is at now.

Pete's hit his shelf life. He's not able to assess this team like he did when he first arrived. He doesn't pay enough attention to the D-line which is the absolutely essential piece to stopping an NFL offense. You can't be a good defense if you are not strong up the middle and your d-line can't beat the guys they are playing across from.

The draft of the last few years isn't looking as great as it did when they occurred because these guys can't stay on the field and have regressed. The Jamal Adams trade has been unmitigated disaster. 36 million a year on safeties that can't get the job done consistently is vastly overpaying for weak players.

We need to bring in a new coach that hasn't reached the point who can't see the bad moves he's making and has no attachment to this roster so they can assess it with a cold eye.

Right now Pete and John don't assess this team very well. They aren't doing what they need to do for a strong roster that can compete. They haven't been doing this for years.

We've been nothing but a pretender contender since we lost that second Super Bowl on that dumb call.

by **Spohawk5092** » Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:01 pm

said so well!!

by **RiverDog** » Sun Dec 17, 2023 2:55 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:This team has been on this type of descent for a while now. Roster management has been terrible for years since Pete and John started trying to cure the team with bad trades and not being successful in the draft, it's reached the point where it is at now.

Pete's hit his shelf life. He's not able to assess this team like he did when he first arrived. He doesn't pay enough attention to the D-line which is the absolutely essential piece to stopping an NFL offense. You can't be a good defense if you are not strong up the middle and your d-line can't beat the guys they are playing across from.

The draft of the last few years isn't looking as great as it did when they occurred because these guys can't stay on the field and have regressed. The Jamal Adams trade has been unmitigated disaster. 36 million a year on safeties that can't get the job done consistently is vastly overpaying for weak players.

We need to bring in a new coach that hasn't reached the point who can't see the bad moves he's making and has no attachment to this roster so they can assess it with a cold eye.

Right now Pete and John don't assess this team very well. They aren't doing what they need to do for a strong roster that can compete. They haven't been doing this for years.

We've been nothing but a pretender contender since we lost that second Super Bowl on that dumb call.

Good post, and I agree completely. But unless Pete retires, I don't see a change coming.

Our playoff chances have increased this weekend as the Vikings and Packers have both lost. With the news that Jalen Hurts might not play, it increases our chances tomorrow night. After the Eagles game, our schedule gets much easier, with games against the Titans, Steelers, and Cards. There's a chance that we could run the table, and in that case, the Pete apologists will be embolden and argue that we're just a player or two away from being competitive again.

by **Spohawk5092** » Sun Dec 17, 2023 3:44 pm

even if we make the playoffs, most likely we will be the usual, 1 and done.

by **Aseahawkfan** » Sun Dec 17, 2023 4:01 pm

Playoffs are not enough any more for me. This idea of going on some dream run just because we punched our ticket in is not what I call a good way to think about a team. The management decay for this team is obvious.

I'm not going to bag on Pete. I just truly believe that coach's have a shelf life where they have spent all the mental resources they had for the a championship run, then they become set in their ways and attached to the roster they built, thus have trouble assessing talent and where the roster is at. So you bring in a new coach with no roster attachment, then let them go to work.

Roster building is the number one way to build a championship team. It has to be done in a cold and calculating fashion that long-tenured coaches have trouble doing because they become attached to the roster they built.

It's what it seems like happens over the years of watching football. Fact is Pete already made his mark more than once in college and the NFL. He needs a rest and reset and we need new blood at the top.

by **Spohawk5092** » Sun Dec 17, 2023 4:34 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:Playoffs are not enough any more for me. This idea of going on some dream run just because we punched our ticket in is not what I call a good way to think about a team. The management decay for this team is obvious.

I'm not going to bag on Pete. I just truly believe that coach's have a shelf life where they have spent all the mental resources they had for the a championship run, then they become set in their ways and attached to the roster they built, thus have trouble assessing talent and where the roster is at. So you bring in a new coach with no roster attachment, then let them go to work.

Roster building is the number one way to build a championship team. It has to be done in a cold and calculating fashion that long-tenured coaches have trouble doing because they become attached to the roster they built.

It's what it seems like happens over the years of watching football. Fact is Pete already made his mark more than once in college and the NFL. He needs a rest and reset and we need new blood at the top.

Yes!!

by **NorthHawk** » Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:30 am

I think we all appreciate that Pete brought us our 1st and only Lombardi Trophy and for that we should be forever grateful. Maybe even worth a statue but definitely included in the Ring of Honor.
However, like said above, coaches reach a point when they just aren't able to get it done with a team anymore and I think Pete has reached that point (actually a number of years ago). We just haven't done anything more than get a participation badge for all of his efforts and there have been some huge missteps along the way in trades and drafting philosophy.
It's just time for a change.

by **mykc14** » Mon Dec 18, 2023 10:34 am

Honestly to me that article doesn't sound that bad. I was listening to that KJ Wright interview and in no way shape or form was KJ implying that PC had lost the locker room. He was very clear that the players simply weren't executing and needed to be held accountable, but one of the most important things that he said, IMO, wasn't even mentioned in the article. He said that PC needed to hold these guys accountable by not starting them. He wouldn't say who but it was pretty clear that he was talking about Adams and maybe Riq. I agree with KJ Adams is killing them right now. He has been instrumental in losing the last two games- giving up the game winning TD vs. Dallas on terrible defense, not filling the hole on CM's long run, and his blown coverage vs. SF. I hope PC sits him and sends a message.

by **NorthHawk** » Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:01 am

Tonight will tell if Pete has the guts to sit Adams. He will probably be inactive because of a Quad problem, so as to not hurt Adams feelings.

Regarding tonight's game, I think we win this one.
Pete can get a team up real good for 1 game and this is it to stop the losing streak.
Philly is hurting in the roster sense with possibly Hurts sick and some others out as well. They are also on a losing skid and it might continue tonight.

by **c_hawkbob** » Mon Dec 18, 2023 11:18 am

If Hurts plays I'm going Eagles.

by **Uppercut** » Mon Dec 18, 2023 2:07 pm

Whos the backup for Hurts? The backups usually demolish the Hawks

W Hurts Eagles 32 Sea 24

WO Eagles 23 Sea 20

by **RiverDog** » Mon Dec 18, 2023 3:16 pm

Uppercut wrote:Whos the backup for Hurts? The backups usually demolish the Hawks

W Hurts Eagles 32 Sea 24

WO Eagles 23 Sea 20

Hurts' backup is Marcus Mariota, a QB of whom most of us are familiar with.

Ian Rapoport is saying that Hurts will probably play but that Geno is a long shot.

by **Spohawk5092** » Mon Dec 18, 2023 3:20 pm

W Hurts Eagles 32 Sea 24

WO Eagles 23 Sea 20[/quote]

Hurts' backup is Marcus Mariota, a QB of whom most of us are familiar with.[/quote]

I am not......

by **EmeraldBullet** » Mon Dec 18, 2023 9:26 pm

Spohawk5092 wrote:I have been trying in vain to find the article I read in my Spokane newspaper sports section this morning about the state of the Hawks, if I do find it later online I will post it. There is infighting, finger pointing, he said, he said going on right now, and a whole lot of frustration...........from Carroll on down.

as I have said before many times, its time for a complete and total housecleaning from top to bottom, to get this team back to where it should be and needs to be, and that is winning again!!!

I found it:
this is painful to read:

https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/n ... 83968.html

Sometimes a little emotion and infighting is what you need to turn things around. It shows everyone still cares and wants to fix it

by **RiverDog** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:18 am

Does anyone else think like I do, that our defense is better without Jamal Adams than it is with him? Last night, we limited Philly to just 143 yards passing, picked off Hurts twice, held them to 17 points.

It would be interesting to go back and compare what our defense is with Adams vs. without him. I'm willing to bet a tall cold one that we're better off without him.

by **NorthHawk** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 8:52 am

RiverDog wrote:Does anyone else think like I do, that our defense is better without Jamal Adams than it is with him? Last night, we limited Philly to just 143 yards passing, picked off Hurts twice, held them to 17 points.

It would be interesting to go back and compare what our defense is with Adams vs. without him. I'm willing to bet a tall cold one that we're better off without him.

Yes, I've been thinking the same thing since last night. They seem to play more of a team Defense instead of looking for reasons to flex after a play while looking for personal accolades.

by **Oly** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 11:21 am

RiverDog wrote:Does anyone else think like I do, that our defense is better without Jamal Adams than it is with him? Last night, we limited Philly to just 143 yards passing, picked off Hurts twice, held them to 17 points.

It would be interesting to go back and compare what our defense is with Adams vs. without him. I'm willing to bet a tall cold one that we're better off without him.

NorthHawk wrote:Yes, I've been thinking the same thing since last night. They seem to play more of a team Defense instead of looking for reasons to flex after a play while looking for personal accolades.

Yes to both. I'd love nothing more than for the Hawks to publicly shut him down for the rest of the year, for both personal conduct and shitty play.

by **MackStrongIsMyHero** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:17 pm

RiverDog wrote:Does anyone else think like I do, that our defense is better without Jamal Adams than it is with him? Last night, we limited Philly to just 143 yards passing, picked off Hurts twice, held them to 17 points.

It would be interesting to go back and compare what our defense is with Adams vs. without him. I'm willing to bet a tall cold one that we're better off without him.

Yes. Love was where he was supposed to be and did a good job playing the ball. Yeah, perhaps DPI could have been called on his first pick, but DBs try to disguise that type of stuff all the time. Refs couldn't get a good lock at what Love did and he still had to catch the ball. No way Adams makes a play like that. Adams gets burned far too often in coverage; it wasn't a good look to mouth off at the Dallas tight end and then get beat one-on-one for a touchdown. Shanahan and Purdy and Co. abused him.

I wonder if he could be salvaged with some snaps at LB for the rest of the season; Wags can't do the sideline-to-sideline thing anymore. After this season, time to move on.

by **mykc14** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 2:08 pm

RiverDog wrote:Does anyone else think like I do, that our defense is better without Jamal Adams than it is with him? Last night, we limited Philly to just 143 yards passing, picked off Hurts twice, held them to 17 points.

It would be interesting to go back and compare what our defense is with Adams vs. without him. I'm willing to bet a tall cold one that we're better off without him.

Without a doubt... now imagine how much better we would be with the two firsts we traded and the 20 plus million we are paying for him. Stupid... Stupid... Stupid... Stupid. Worst trade in Hawks history. Stupid...

by **NorthHawk** » Tue Dec 19, 2023 9:26 pm

PFT said Adams wasn’t on the sidelines last night and when Pete was asked about it he said Adams didn’t have to be there.
There was a report he was at home. He does have a quad injury, though .Apparently Pete also called him out about his play after last game, too.
So maybe with the early benching of Woolen and the calling out of Adams, some discipline is being meted out.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 5:33 am

NorthHawk wrote:PFT said Adams wasn’t on the sidelines last night and when Pete was asked about it he said Adams didn’t have to be there.
There was a report he was at home. He does have a quad injury, though .Apparently Pete also called him out about his play after last game, too.
So maybe with the early benching of Woolen and the calling out of Adams, some discipline is being meted out.

It's unclear if Adams was ever in the stadium or not, but he was a healthy scratch and didn't learn of it until a few hours before gametime. He's supposed to be one of the team leaders. It shows you just how selfish the man is, that he'd rather be at home in his easy chair vs. out there with his teammates. He probably didn't even watch the game.

We'll see how this drama all plays out, but I sure hope we have seen the last of this POS.

It's about time that Pete started getting tough with these guys. He probably should have set Metcalf for a quarter or so, too, send a signal to the team that there are consequences for disregarding what the old man tells them.

We'll see what happens the rest of the season. I have the sense that we're looking at fool's gold again, that we'll make the playoffs then get dispatched quickly by a team like the Eagles.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 8:05 am

The results will be the same, but just maybe Adams is at the end of the leash and they will cut ties with him this year.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 8:50 am

NorthHawk wrote:The results will be the same, but just maybe Adams is at the end of the leash and they will cut ties with him this year.

I can't see it playing out any differently. Even when healthy, Adams is not anywhere near worth what we're paying him, and now there's this rub between him and Pete that resulted in him pouting like a 5-year-old who had his marbles taken away by not being on the sidelines with his teammates and doing what he could to help them.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 9:34 am

He could have been told to stay away, too. We will probably never know the whole story.

But I think back to his 2nd year and Pete saying they still hadn't figured out how to use him. Maybe they realized he didn't have the speed for great range and has terrible ball skills so maybe the not figured out how to use him was how to cover for him and not embarrass the trade more than they already had. Yah, he brings some energy - when they win, but some players that are that way can also poison the team if things go sour. There's a reason the Jets didn't want him anymore and we are seeing it first hand. I think they are going to have to bite the bullet and cut him loose this off season.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 9:41 am

NorthHawk wrote:He could have been told to stay away, too. We will probably never know the whole story.

Very unlikely. Carroll was asked yesterday where he was, and he said that he didn't know. If he had been sent home, Pete would have answered that question a lot differently.

NorthHawk wrote:But I think back to his 2nd year and Pete saying they still hadn't figured out how to use him. Maybe they realized he didn't have the speed for great range and has terrible ball skills so maybe the not figured out how to use him was how to cover for him and not embarrass the trade more than they already had. Yah, he brings some energy - when they win, but some players that are that way can also poison the team if things go sour. There's a reason the Jets didn't want him anymore and we are seeing it first hand. I think they are going to have to bite the bullet and cut him loose this off season.

Agreed.

by **MackStrongIsMyHero** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:37 am

I never watched him with the Jets. I'm guessing from his stats in his time there he did a lot of work closer to the line of scrimmage. He's a natural SS and really has no business being relied on heavily in pass coverage, so I want to blame coaching at least in some part for using him incorrectly, but $15+ million/yr is also a lot for a box safety. He's way overpaid for the role he's actually good at. Kam was also a natural SS (and one of the best to do it), but I don't remember him being near the liability as Adams when he had to play the pass.

I'd like for the coaching staff to some how salvage the situation this season and find a way to use him, but if he's going to pout at home because he received a much needed "down the road", then leave him there.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 10:41 am

Very unlikely. Carroll was asked yesterday where he was, and he said that he didn't know. If he had been sent home, Pete would have answered that question a lot differently.

Have you ever known Pete to be that direct about a player? I don't know doesn't lead to more questions than if he said I sent him home. The last thing any coach wants is some type of controversy that the media can run with.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 3:04 pm

Very unlikely. Carroll was asked yesterday where he was, and he said that he didn't know. If he had been sent home, Pete would have answered that question a lot differently.

NorthHawk wrote:Have you ever known Pete to be that direct about a player? I don't know doesn't lead to more questions than if he said I sent him home. The last thing any coach wants is some type of controversy that the media can run with.

Why would Pete send him home? Why would he want to? Do you think that the two got into such a huge argument that it resulted in Pete sending him home? That seems very unlikely to me.

My opinion as to what happened is that the two have come to logger heads, that Pete sees Adams as a liability and decided to take action before the season was a complete loss and that Adams sees himself as being on the way out and just said "F-it" and walked out. We know for a fact that Adams has a short fuse, so that scenario seems to me to be the most likely. I think that Pete was being honest with the reporters when he said that he didn't know where Adams went.

by **MackStrongIsMyHero** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 5:02 pm

Field Gulls ran an article with a discussion from Pete. I tried attaching a picture for the first time. Hopefully it goes through.

: Question to Pete about Adams; JADAMS.png (89.34 KiB) Viewed 7440 times

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2023/12/20/2 ... ury-future

The like has the snapshot of the dialogue as well. Pete says he thinks Adams was at home and referenced his injury as a reason for him not feeling right and recovery vs. preparation. I think he's trying not to lambast Adams and instead high roading it by going with the injury.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 6:09 pm

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:Field Gulls ran an article with a discussion from Pete. I tried attaching a picture for the first time. Hopefully it goes through.

JADAMS.png

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2023/12/20/2 ... ury-future

The like has the snapshot of the dialogue as well. Pete says he thinks Adams was at home and referenced his injury as a reason for him not feeling right and recovery vs. preparation. I think he's trying not to lambast Adams and instead high roading it by going with the injury.

Yep, I saw that quote, and I agree with you, that Pete was trying to take some pressure off the situation by noting Adams' various injuries, even alluded to the psychological aspect of recovering from an injury like he's trying to use it as an excuse to justify his behavior, ie leaving the stadium. That's an about face from the Pete of last week who uncharacteristically was publicly critical of Adams, more like the Pete we have come to know.

But then again, this interview was done after a dramatic, come from behind victory over the defending NFC champs, not following an ass kicking by our division rival and our 4th straight loss. I'm sure that Pete was in a little better mood

by **Aseahawkfan** » Wed Dec 20, 2023 8:16 pm

Adams is probably gone come next year. Or making way less money.

by **RiverDog** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 3:34 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:Adams is probably gone come next year. Or making way less money.

I'm not sure he's coming back even if he agrees to a pay cut. Injuries or no injuries, he hasn't been producing. He's a huge liability in coverage, isn't nearly fast enough to keep up with even the slowest of wide receivers, and he hasn't had a QB sack in 3 frigging years. He's not good enough to start, and I don't see anyone trading for him. It's no coincidence that our defense has been better without him than it has been with. And that's before we consider the distractions he's prone to.

by **NorthHawk** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 7:44 am

I'm as much concerned about his play as I am his influence on the younger players with his attitude.
The last thing we need is for him to negatively influence Witherspoon and/or Woolen. I wonder if he already has negatively affected Woolen as his play has dropped off from last year, but maybe it's just a sophomore slump.

by **RiverDog** » Thu Dec 21, 2023 8:01 am

NorthHawk wrote:I'm as much concerned about his play as I am his influence on the younger players with his attitude.
The last thing we need is for him to negatively influence Witherspoon and/or Woolen. I wonder if he already has negatively affected Woolen as his play has dropped off from last year, but maybe it's just a sophomore slump.

Yeah, that's a good question. His blow ups with the concussion doctors, his "Yikes" controversy, his leaving the stadium rather than staying with his teammates, and it sure makes you wonder what he's been like in the locker room. Prior to this season, everything I had heard about him was that he was a great locker room guy. But he's raised some eyebrows over these past 3 months.

by **Old but Slow** » Sat Dec 23, 2023 1:48 am

Perhaps the answer is to try Jamal at quarterback. He's making QB money, I know he feels he can be good at it, and he will not be playing safety. It is a win, win.

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