It's Time

[mykc14]

We have to move on... Fire PC.

- he's a defensive minded HC and our defense is terrible, one of the worst in the league.
- his decision making has always been bad (or hormonal) and today is a perfect example of this.
- wasted challenge... one of h th e dumbest of his tenure here and he has had a bunch. The TO was more important than the challenge and there was no way he could have won. I honestly done get it.
- onside kick. WHY??? Just dumb. You already wasted your TO, it's a 7 point game and there's 2:01 on the clock. Kick it out of the Endzone!!!!!!! That is your only chance. Converting on an inside kick is maybe 5% success rate, but if you don't get it the game is over. Kick it deep and hope you can stop them.
- Jemal Adams: one of the worst trades in NFL history.

PC has done an amazing job of making us mediocre. Time to move on. I know it could be worse, we could go from mediocre to terrible, but at the end of the day we aren't even close to competing for a championship and haven't been for 8 years. We need a change at the top.

Thanks for the SB PC. The LOB years were awesome. Let us move on!!!

[RiverDog]

Well, we're not quite dead yet. We still have a 32% chance of making the playoffs, so as long as we're still mathematically alive, I'm going to bite my tongue and hold my peace. But I was ready to move on last year.

I seriously doubt that Jody will have the guts to pull the trigger on Pete, so unless he retires, we're still going to be stuck with him at least another year.

[Aseahawkfan]

You know what that 32% means to me? 32% chance to lower our draft position entering a 14 team playoff where we have no real chance of winning the Super Bowl in the 9th year of non-competitiveness while I watch the coach and GM of this team trade precious draft capital for a rental player that will cost us in the offseason when we already have to clear salary cap to make moves next year.

I want the 2nd round pick back to get a safety or LB. Williams did not improve our sad ass run defense because we need better LBs and safeties for that to happen.

Pete and John thinking we are one player away from contention and being impatient in trading a 2nd round pick away from a Williams is more proof they are not capable of doing a quality rebuild. They don't have the fire any more. They are hoping for one more quick run to the Super Bowl so Pete can retire after that. They aren't taking a realistic view of rebuilding this team.

The Russell Trade has ended up extending the life of a GM and coach that can't get it done any more.

Even the past draft classes are looking not as great in hindsight. Lucas the RT is looking like damaged goods. Riq has regressed or maybe he can't tackle. Charles Cross is a solid if unspectacular LT. KW3 is good, when he's on the field and isn't expected to carry the load.

Best guys we have right now are Spoon and JSN. But I don't trust Pete to turn that into gold any more because he can't call himself wrong. I read he said Jamal will be back next year? Seriously? This guy will be back? I don't even want to hear that at all.

I want to hear that Pete realizes this team has serious problems and he needs to reassess his methodology. But he's not going to do that. It needs to be done. If not Pete, then John, if John don't have that power then Jody and the ownership team needs to act.

[RiverDog]

You know what that 32% means to me? 32% chance to lower our draft position entering a 14 team playoff where we have no real chance of winning the Super Bowl in the 9th year of non-competitiveness while I watch the coach and GM of this team trade precious draft capital for a rental player that will cost us in the offseason when we already have to clear salary cap to make moves next year.

I want the 2nd round pick back to get a safety or LB. Williams did not improve our sad ass run defense because we need better LBs and safeties for that to happen.

Pete and John thinking we are one player away from contention and being impatient in trading a 2nd round pick away from a Williams is more proof they are not capable of doing a quality rebuild. They don't have the fire any more. They are hoping for one more quick run to the Super Bowl so Pete can retire after that. They aren't taking a realistic view of rebuilding this team.

The Russell Trade has ended up extending the life of a GM and coach that can't get it done any more.

Even the past draft classes are looking not as great in hindsight. Lucas the RT is looking like damaged goods. Riq has regressed or maybe he can't tackle. Charles Cross is a solid if unspectacular LT. KW3 is good, when he's on the field and isn't expected to carry the load.

Best guys we have right now are Spoon and JSN. But I don't trust Pete to turn that into gold any more because he can't call himself wrong. I read he said Jamal will be back next year? Seriously? This guy will be back? I don't even want to hear that at all.

I want to hear that Pete realizes this team has serious problems and he needs to reassess his methodology. But he's not going to do that. It needs to be done. If not Pete, then John, if John don't have that power then Jody and the ownership team needs to act.

I hear ya, and there's a part of me that feels exactly the same way that you do. But there's another part of me that considers it sacrilege to root for my team to lose. It's a conflict between my head and my heart.

As long as we have a chance, I'm going to try to hang in there. I may regret it in retrospect, but for now, I'm still pulling for us to win.

[Aseahawkfan]

I hear ya, and there's a part of me that feels exactly the same way that you do. But there's another part of me that considers it sacrilege to root for my team to lose. It's a conflict between my head and my heart.

As long as we have a chance, I'm going to try to hang in there. I may regret it in retrospect, but for now, I'm still pulling for us to win.

I been a Pete guy for years. I have been saddened seeing the end of the most amazing era we've ever had with the Legion of Boom falling apart, the Russell trade, and soon hopefully Pete retiring. But we need a change. This isn't going well.

I'm not going to do like Hawktawk and personally attack Pete or John or call them liars or pretend I know the internal workings of Pete and have insider knowledge. Or suddenly rewrite history to make someone seem like a worse person than they are.

But my feeling is Pete's done. The roster management has been bad for sometime. I feel like Pete has reached the point where he'd like one more run at a Super Bowl and he'd probably retire and when he thinks he close, he makes some terrible trades that set us back. I don't think that's a great place to be.

We have to admit Pete's time is done. It's time to start that new era and let a new coach and GM with the fire and no attachment to the current roster or coaches start it all over again with hopefully a similar result to when Pete and John first arrived.

[NorthHawk]

This article basically says how I feel. Not exactly, but close.

https://amp.thenewstribune.com/sports/a ... 15008.html

I think that what the FO (those above Schneider) has to worry about with the Fan Base is apathy, and I think by looking at how many opposing teams fans are in the stadium this year, it is beginning to settle in.
The only thing that can start to reverse that trend is a big move to get some interest in the Seahawks going again.

[Stream Hawk]

I agree, that article sums up my thoughts. I love Jim Moore. He’s a long standing, excellent writer and a nice guy.

Yes sometimes you have to rip the Band-Aid off and accept whatever fate that might be. Mediocrity just doesn’t work anymore. I hope Pete realizes this and resigns on his own. I’ve been seeing (by far) the most articles, Tweets, and comments suggesting it is time. If Jody and the Seahawks brass can’t see/hear that themselves then we have a much bigger problem. Also Pete should be able to read the room as well. So should John - who should also on the hot seat. This just seems so damn obvious. The fanbase is fed up with mediocrity, as we all should be.

Whatever happened to Win Forever?

[Oly]

Even a couple of weeks ago I was conflicted, but no longer. Even if the Hawks make the playoffs and win a game, I'm ready to move on. Pete's secret has always been his ability to create a culture that creates wins. He was never a tactical genius. For whatever reason, he's lost that special sauce. The defense doesn't have those dogs anymore and the scheme sucks, so it's time to move on.

[Spohawk5092]

we think alike my friend! Its time for big changes in Seattle.

[Agent 86]

Well now, if this article doesn't reflect what the majority of us have said and feel right about now, I don't know what does. Michael-Shawn Dugar does a fantastic job covering the Hawks at The Athletic!


Dugar: Seahawks need a drastic change, no matter how this season ends

By Michael-Shawn Dugar
Jan 4, 2024

Five days after Seattle’s wild-card loss to the San Francisco 49ers in the 2022 playoffs, general manager John Schneider appeared on Seattle Sports radio and brought up a recent conversation with coach Pete Carroll in which the two Seahawks shot-callers agreed that their season ended at the hands of the biggest, fastest and most physical team in the NFL.

“And we gotta get back to that,” Schneider recalled saying. “No questions asked.”

Schneider was asked during that interview if he viewed the season as a success. The host prefaced the question by saying he believed it was, when viewed through the context of parting with Russell Wilson and Bobby Wagner, acquiring immediately impactful players in the 2022 NFL Draft and getting Pro Bowl quarterback play out of a guy once perceived as the worst starter in the NFL. In that context, Schneider agreed with the premise that Seattle had succeeded in what was a “transition season.”

“Probably a little bit too close to it yet to say, ‘Yes, that was amazing,’ but a lot of people did a lot of great things, so, yes, I’m proud of that,” Schneider said. “But we know we have a lot of work to do here.”

Schneider and Carroll were not satisfied with being a feisty seventh seed in the playoffs. They got a kick out of proving their detractors wrong, but internally, they believed they fell well short of their expectations. They dedicated the offseason to meeting those expectations.

One year later, the Seahawks are on track to not only fall short of their expectations but perhaps not even match last year’s results. For the second straight year, the Seahawks enter Week 18 with an 8-8 record. And just like last season, they need a win and a Green Bay Packers loss to sneak into the playoffs. The model created by The Athletic’s Austin Mock gives Seattle a 22.2 percent chance of making the postseason (the same model has the Packers’ odds at 70.7 percent).

But no matter what happens Sunday, the fact that Seattle finds itself in this same position reflects poorly on the entire operation, from the front office to the coaches and players. If last season was a success only when viewed through a certain lens, then this season is setting up to be an abject failure. It doesn’t require a crystal ball to foresee a scenario in which Schneider is soon on that same radio station lamenting a season that ended without a playoff berth, or with another first-round exit.

Either scenario would reveal a harsh truth about the state of the franchise: Barring drastic change, the Seahawks are set up to be perpetually mediocre, jogging in place while other teams — some of which are in their division — are much closer to the finish line.

In fairness, there’s a plausible path for Seattle to advance further than it did last season. The Seahawks are three-point favorites over the Arizona Cardinals. The Packers are identical favorites against a Chicago team that has been eliminated from the postseason. But the Bears are similar to the 2022 Detroit Lions — who beat Green Bay in the finale to put Seattle into the postseason — in that they’re playing well and will likely be motivated to finish the season strong.

And if the Seahawks get into the playoffs, they’ll face either the Lions, a team they’ve beaten in Detroit each of the last two seasons; the Dallas Cowboys, a team they just went toe-to-toe with at AT&T Stadium; or the Philadelphia Eagles, who have lost four of five games, including a Week 15 defeat in Seattle. Reaching the divisional round isn’t entirely out of the question.

But all that would do is set up another trip to Levi’s Stadium, a place where the Seahawks haven’t kept pace with Kyle Shanahan’s San Francisco 49ers, who are every bit the juggernaut they were last season. Seattle has lost five straight to San Francisco and has been outscored by 50 points in the three road games. In those games, the Seahawks have averaged 1.26 points per drive, the same mark as this year’s Carolina Panthers, and they’ve allowed the 49ers to average 3.0 points per drive. For context, that would rank as the fourth-best offense of the 21st century, trailing only the 2007 New England Patriots, 2018 Kansas City Chiefs and 2020 Packers.

There’s no reason to believe another trip to Santa Clara would produce a positive outcome for Seattle.

The Seahawks put in the work to avoid this situation. It just wasn’t enough.

On offense, the Seahawks re-upped with Geno Smith, a guy they felt could lead them to the promised land with another year in the system and a supporting cast playing well around him. They signed veteran center Evan Brown, drafted receiver Jaxon Smith-Njigba in the first round and added running back Zach Charbonnet in the second. They even stumbled upon an undrafted gem in rookie wideout Jake Bobo.

Seattle hoped to not only have another year of efficient offense — the Seahawks were ninth in points per drive and 15th in EPA per play — but it anticipated being much better situationally, both on third down and in the red zone. In 2022, Seattle ranked 20th in third-down conversion rate (37.8 percent) and 28th in red zone efficiency (47.3 percent). This year, the Seahawks are 25th on third down (35.4 percent) and 24th in the red zone (49 percent). The Seahawks do have an efficient offense — 12th in points per drive, 10th in EPA per play — but they’re deficient in the same critical areas. Offensive line injuries played a significant role this season, but the results are what they are.

On defense, the only notable holdovers up front were Uchenna Nwosu, Boye Mafe and Darrell Taylor. Wagner returned to replace Cody Barton. Julian Love was signed as insurance for the injured Jamal Adams, and Devon Witherspoon was drafted at No. 5 to elevate the secondary, either as an outside cornerback or a nickel. Defensive tackle Leonard Williams was acquired midseason in exchange for a second-round pick. Quandre Diggs and Riq Woolen are Pro Bowlers. On paper, the talent was there.

After ranking 26th and 25th, respectively, in points per drive and EPA per play in 2022, the Seahawks rank 29th in both categories this season. They’ve improved at limiting explosive plays — 11.9 percent last year compared to 10.5 this season — but the Seahawks are once again among the worst in the league doing what they consider priority No. 1: stopping the run.

Seattle hired new assistant coaches, swapped players in and out and tweaked the scheme. However the on-field product, on both sides of the ball, is just as flawed as it was last season. The offense once again struggled to find an identity for much of the season. The defense is regressing.

It’s nearly impossible to assess the Seahawks through that lens and view Sunday’s outcome as anything other than irrelevant in the grand scheme, at least as it pertains to getting back to being one of the biggest, fastest and most physical teams in the league.

This team feels even less competitive than previous Seahawks squads that weren’t championship contenders. Barring a 39-point win over Arizona on Sunday, Seattle will finish the season with a negative point differential for only the second time in the Carroll-Schneider era. In 2010, Carroll and Schneider’s first season, the Seahawks won the division with a 7-9 record and a minus-97 point differential. That team upset the defending champs in the “Beast Quake” game but was no match for the Bears in the divisional round.

If the 2023 Seahawks follow a similar path, it will mark nine straight seasons falling short of the conference championship round. For some franchises, consistently having something to play for in Weeks 17 and 18 is worth commending. It’s just enough to generate offseason optimism, keep fans engaged year-round and keep butts in seats throughout the season.

But if the Seahawks exist in that space for the better part of a decade despite working toward and aspiring for more, how much longer should this status quo be accepted? And how can they get out of this funk? Is it time to tear down the roster? Should Carroll’s or Schneider’s jobs be at stake? Is there another way?

Those are the questions Seattle must answer, regardless of the results this weekend.

[RiverDog]

Yup, jogging in place is a good analogy to what we've been doing since the break-up of the LOB.

Good article, thanks for posting it.

[NorthHawk]

It seems more and more people are getting tired of this regime's act and think it's time for a change.
I've been there for a few years now so it's nice to have some company.

[RiverDog]

It seems more and more people are getting tired of this regime's act and think it's time for a change.
I've been there for a few years now so it's nice to have some company.

I'm getting that sense, too, about twice as much as it was this time last year and more so than at any period of Seahawk football in my recollection. Even during the Mora year, there wasn't this big of a chorus calling for a change as many of us felt that one year was too short of a time to be firing a HC.

But the question is our owner listening?

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2024/1/7/240 ... ption-2025

According to this, she just might be. Pete may need a playoff birth to stick around and maybe not even then.

I’m a bit torn on it. He brought us a Super Bowl, but it hasn’t been the same since the loss in the second one. Still brought a lot of wins, but a lot early exits. He managed to beat the Browns (pre Flacco), Detroit, and Eagles (don’t look as good as projected), but his defenders dont know how to tackle anymore and can be goaded pretty easily into penalties. The tackling bit bothers me a lot. That used be a strength, and I can’t believe he’s be coaching poor tackling. Makes me wonder why the team hasn’t corrected the issue when it has to be known. Are the players not listening? If that’s the case, then maybe it is time to part ways.

[NorthHawk]

[quote][/qu Now, on the morning of the regular season finale, one of the most connected insiders in the league is noting that Carroll could potentially walk away just hours ahead of the team set to battle for a playoff spot when they take on the Arizona Cardinals,...]

Does this mean he could walk BEFORE the game or am I reading this incorrectly?

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I was curious about that too. I wonder is it saying the insider is making his claim hours before the game and not that Carroll will dip out hours before the game. Sentence structure matters!

[RiverDog]

I was curious about that too. I wonder is it saying the insider is making his claim hours before the game and not that Carroll will dip out hours before the game. Sentence structure matters!

Pete wouldn't do that to his team. He might be a lot of things, but he's not Bobby Petrino.

The article is pure speculation. Moving on from a coach who hadn't done squat in that bush league known as the NBA is a little different than walking away from a Lombardi winning coach like Carroll. Unless Pete decides on his own to hang 'em up, he'll at least finish out his contract.

[Stream Hawk]

It’s effing time! Regardless of the Packers game, this was an absolutely unacceptable effort by the Hawks. Jody please make it happen.
Go Huskies.

[Aseahawkfan]

I want Jim Harbaugh.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

It’s effing time! Regardless of the Packers game, this was an absolutely unacceptable effort by the Hawks. Jody please make it happen.
Go Huskies.

For real. I hate when they win. Tear it all down and start over.

[RiverDog]

It’s effing time! Regardless of the Packers game, this was an absolutely unacceptable effort by the Hawks. Jody please make it happen.

Go Huskies.

It's a year past time. I wanted Pete gone at the end of last season. Out of respect for him, I bit my tongue through this entire season. But I've had it with his perpetual mediocrity .500ish teams. We're running on an endless treadmill.

If our owner doesn't pull the trigger on Pete, either by negotiating a retirement or outright firing him, I'll lose whatever confidence I might have had for her.

[Aseahawkfan]

For real. I hate when they win. Tear it all down and start over.

This is why that win was a waste of time. You suddenly believe Pete and John are world beaters from this one win?

Two drafts from the Russell Wilson Lotto Ticket and we regress, miss the playoffs, and end up with the same record and the defense is still terrible and we should what? Be happy?

How do you like having two drafts of high picks and the team still regresses in a year when the Eagles suck and the overall talent of the NFL isn't as good and your team still can't compete?

You consider that a positive? Eh. Pete and John did a bang up job drafting and then what? Regressed? Didn't coach it up well enough?

Why are we still a terrible defense? Why is this team still not competitive 10 years from the last Super Bowl trip and 11 years from the last win?

You want us all to buy into this crap based on a 1 point win against the 4 and 13 Cardinals? Hell no.

Terrible year after receiving a king's ransom for the former QB. Damn terrible regression. The owner should not be happy at all.

If John were a GM with power, Pete Carroll should be gone or be receiving the heat of the fire under his seat. There is zero excuse for a defensive head coach like Carroll to be putting this garbage defense on the field.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

This is why that win was a waste of time. You suddenly believe Pete and John are world beaters from this one win?

Two drafts from the Russell Wilson Lotto Ticket and we regress, miss the playoffs, and end up with the same record and the defense is still terrible and we should what? Be happy?

How do you like having two drafts of high picks and the team still regresses in a year when the Eagles suck and the overall talent of the NFL isn't as good and your team still can't compete?

You consider that a positive? Eh. Pete and John did a bang up job drafting and then what? Regressed? Didn't coach it up well enough?

Why are we still a terrible defense? Why is this team still not competitive 10 years from the last Super Bowl trip and 11 years from the last win?

You want us all to buy into this crap based on a 1 point win against the 4 and 13 Cardinals? Hell no.

Terrible year after receiving a king's ransom for the former QB. Damn terrible regression. The owner should not be happy at all.

If John were a GM with power, Pete Carroll should be gone or be receiving the heat of the fire under his seat. There is zero excuse for a defensive head coach like Carroll to be putting this garbage defense on the field.

Oh my god dude; step back a bit. You’re borderline condescending with this. I prefer the team win over losing; call it Pollyanna or obtuse or whatever you like, but you play to win. This win doesn’t “all of a sudden” do anything as far me thinking everything is fine. It certainly doesn’t mask a season’s worth of issues that were readily apparent in this game. You can read my response in the other thread, but changes will need to be made, but I also don’t think the process is over. The infusion of young talent is one and two seasons old. It takes time.

[Stream Hawk]

For real. I hate when they win. Tear it all down and start over.

In my defense, I sent this before the won. I’m actually happy they won, but didn’t change much. They have some serious legit offensive playmakers. Only one on defense, Spoon. As Asea and others have said this is absolutely unacceptable how Pete has manhandlingly destroyed this defense.