The Athletic: Why We Moved On From Pete

[RiverDog]

My turn to post an article from The Athletic. It's a long one, which is why I started a new thread. But IMO it's spot on.

The Pete Carroll era is over. Here’s why the Seahawks moved on after 14 years

By Michael-Shawn Dugar Jan 11, 2024

RENTON, Wash. — Pete Carroll is no longer the coach of the Seattle Seahawks because, as he became further removed from the team’s glory days, it seemed less and less likely that the franchise would return to power under his leadership.

Carroll is no longer overseeing Seattle’s offense because, over the years, that side of the ball has failed to carry out his vision of owning the line of scrimmage, establishing the run and forming an identity, despite changing quarterbacks, play callers and assistant coaches.

Carroll is no longer responsible for the Seahawks’ defense because that unit has spent the last six seasons finding new ways to be inept, becoming nearly unrecognizable when compared to the Legion of Boom era. In some years, it lacked a pass rush. In other years, it couldn’t limit explosive plays. For the last two seasons, the run defense was nonexistent. The coordinators changed. The players changed. The scheme changed. The results did not.

But Carroll didn’t lose the role he assumed for 14 years because his philosophy was outdated. Closing the circle of toughness, doing right longer than the opponent, competing every day and empowering players and coaches to be the best versions of themselves are all principles that most football coaches believe in.

Carroll is no longer running the franchise with which he won a championship because those things he preached from Monday through Saturday stopped translating to Sundays.

During a 33-minute news conference at the Virginia Mason Athletic Center on Wednesday afternoon, Carroll declined to dive into the specifics of the conversations that led to the organization’s decision to move him from head coach and vice president of football operations to an advisory position. Carroll mutually agreed to the decision after his year-end meetings, which included discussions with general manager John Schneider and team owner Jody Allen.

“There’s a lot that went into that, a lot that went behind that,” Carroll said in front of an audience that included dozens of team employees, a handful of front-office staffers, several veteran players — Geno Smith, Bobby Wagner, Tyler Lockett and Quandre Diggs among them — and, of course, Schneider, who will lead the search for the team’s new coach.

“This is a good move for them,” Carroll said. “Johnny’s going to take this thing, take the bull by the horns and roll. I’m so thankful that I get to see him take that next step and watch what he does with it. He’s going to kick butt.”

Carroll didn’t need to give details as to what went into the decision (Schneider might do so in the news conference he has scheduled for Tuesday). The breadcrumbs had slowly started to drop over the last few seasons.

The Seahawks had spent years avoiding being blown out, particularly at home, but in recent seasons, the lopsided losses started to pile up. The Russell Wilson saga was an example of a star player and team captain not being totally bought into the offensive vision. And Wilson wasn’t alone in that thought.

During the past two seasons, Seattle’s defensive players didn’t appear to be believers in the messaging being delivered by their coaches. Seattle’s tackling techniques were once used as teach tape for the rest of the league, and yet they spent the most important stretch of this season struggling to get guys on the ground.

Beyond the schematics, Carroll took blame for his team being unprepared. He admitted to the Seahawks feeling an emotional hangover from the victory over Wilson’s Broncos in the 2022 season opener, which bled into the next week when they were blown out by the 49ers. After a Thanksgiving loss against the 49ers this season, when the team was again uncompetitive versus a division rival, he admitted to not having his team prepared on a short week.

Moments after the Seahawks learned Sunday that their season was over despite beating the Cardinals, half of his locker room was distraught, while the other half smoked celebratory cigars. The disconnect spoke to a locker room that wasn’t collectively on the same page.

“It was time,” a former player said of Carroll’s transition out of his head coach role.

That was a common sentiment expressed by a handful of players and coaches after the team’s announcement Wednesday afternoon. The Seahawks want to routinely contend for championships. Because they weren’t doing that and weren’t trending in the right direction, some people weren’t at all surprised by the move. This was always an option, either this offseason or next.

“We lost our edge, really,” Carroll said. “The edge to be great, which was really how we ran the football and how we played defense. It wasn’t as good as it needed to be.”

Asked if he had any regrets, Carroll said, “Heck yeah.” He mentioned Seattle’s narrow losses to the Rams in Week 11 and the Cowboys in Week 13. In both games, Seattle had the ball late in the fourth quarter with a chance to win. Jason Myers missed a field goal that would have beaten the Rams, and Seattle’s offense turned the ball over on downs on back-to-back fourth-quarter drives against the Cowboys. The Seahawks went 6-4 in one-possession games this season and missed the playoffs by one game.

“As a coach, there’s not enough wins,” Carroll said. “We know right now there’s not enough wins this season. And it’s a big challenge about doing this work.”

Seattle needed to win its Week 18 game and get a Bears victory against the Packers to sneak into the playoffs as the final wild-card team. The Seahawks beat the Cardinals 21-20. The Bears lost 17-9.

Carroll was asked Wednesday whether he thought a Chicago victory would have prevented him from being in this position.

“Not today,” he joked before leaving the podium to a round of applause.

There’s likely some truth to that sentiment, though.

Sneaking into the playoffs with a 9-8 record in consecutive seasons isn’t the mark of a team on the cusp of competing for a championship. Had the Seahawks made the playoffs and played hard in another road loss to the Cowboys — or beaten them before losing to the 49ers in the divisional round — then there’s a chance the same news conference Carroll held Wednesday would have just been delayed by a week or two. Barring a miraculous run to the conference title game, it would have been hard for the powers that be to maintain the status quo and expect a championship in 2024.

The Seahawks have long been built in Carroll’s image, and although he and Schneider have always been in lockstep, Schneider now has the power to really shake things up. Will he hit the reset button, both along the roster and the coaching staff, jettisoning longtime veterans and perhaps even the quarterback? Will he try to keep the core intact, hire a coach who believes in Carroll’s vision and merely make a few tweaks to reestablish Seattle as a contender? How much will Allen be involved, if at all? The next steps will shape the future of the franchise.

Carroll also made the audience laugh when he responded to a question seeking his advice for whoever is chosen as his successor.

“You want me to tell the next guy how to win?” Carroll said with a smile. “It wouldn’t matter, whether it’s football or whatever. To me, the essence of being as good as you can be is you have to figure out who you are. You have to figure out that and (give) relentless effort to try and get clear about what’s important to you, what uncompromising principles do you stand by, what makes you who you are.

“If you don’t go through that process, you don’t do that self-discovery, you don’t have an opportunity to be your best because you don’t know who you are yet.”

Carroll knows who he is, which principles he values most and what brand of football he’d like to play. But that wasn’t consistently reflected by the team he put on the field. For that reason, he is no longer the coach of the Seahawks.

https://theathletic.com/5194305/2024/01 ... coach-out/

[trents]

It was obvious to me that the team was no longer listening to Pete. A few of the high character veterans were but the team as a whole had tuned him out. I think that is a lot of what this article from the Athletic is saying. And there are probably a number of reasons for that.

[RiverDog]

It was obvious to me that the team was no longer listening to Pete. A few of the high character veterans were but the team as a whole had tuned him out. I think that is a lot of what this article from the Athletic is saying. And there are probably a number of reasons for that.

I agree.

To be fair, the smoking cigars incident referred to in the article was inspired by Julian Love deciding to celebrate the birth of his baby by passing out cigars, not because it was the end of the season for them. But he and the others that lit up should have realized what a horrible look it was for them to pick that time and place, the locker room immediately following the end of a disappointing season, to hold their party. Sort of like having a farting contest in church. It was a time for quiet reflection, not high fives. If it were timely, like the baby having been born the night before, then it wouldn't have been so bad. But Love's baby had been born over 2 weeks earlier. Bobby Wagner understood how inappropriate it was, expressed his displeasure at his younger teammates, and refused to engage in the activity. It wasn't Pete's fault that it happened, but it demonstrates how many of his players had lost their focus, don't have their priorities right.

And that wasn't the only subtle signal to come out of the locker room that might indicate that Pete had lost the respect of his players. You had Jamal Adams unloading twice on doctors then gets into a spat on social media, DK Metcalf ignoring Pete's "talks" to refrain from his personal fouls by telling fans and the media that he wasn't changing. It's obvious that a good number of them had tuned him out.

[NorthHawk]

The article reflects a lot of what we have been saying for a couple of years. Bad tackling, bad OL, no identity, lack of discipline, and more.
I wonder if Paul Allen would have let it go on this long. He got rid of Holmgren, then Mora when things weren't working out, so I have trouble believing he would have let Pete carry on for as long as he did.

[RiverDog]

The article reflects a lot of what we have been saying for a couple of years. Bad tackling, bad OL, no identity, lack of discipline, and more.
I wonder if Paul Allen would have let it go on this long. He got rid of Holmgren, then Mora when things weren't working out, so I have trouble believing he would have let Pete carry on for as long as he did.

I'm pretty sure that PA wouldn't have tolerated Pete for as long as Jody did. It would have been out of character for him.

I'm wondering if Pete is going to coach again. At 72, you'd think that he'd take the hint, sit back in his basement office, go to his weekly lunch with JS and the gang, collect is $15M, then check out the cruise ship scene.

The next discussion that will come up in the years to come will be if he's worthy of the HOF. Like the discussion we had on the pre-Broncos Russell Wilson, I think that Pete is one Lombardi short of sure-fire HOF consideration. But on the other hand, if a guy like Tom Flores deserves a gold jacket, certainly Pete does, too.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm pretty sure that PA wouldn't have tolerated Pete for as long as Jody did. It would have been out of character for him.

I'm wondering if Pete is going to coach again. At 72, you'd think that he'd take the hint, sit back in his basement office, go to his weekly lunch with JS and the gang, collect is $15M, then check out the cruise ship scene.

The next discussion that will come up in the years to come will be if he's worthy of the HOF. Like the discussion we had on the pre-Broncos Russell Wilson, I think that Pete is one Lombardi short of sure-fire HOF consideration. But on the other hand, if a guy like Tom Flores deserves a gold jacket, certainly Pete does, too.

Depends on who Pete is against.

Main surefire HOF coaches coming up is Bill B. Might as well have handed him the jacket when he retired.

Pete's in that Holmgren area with one more feather in his cap of building a truly legendary defense up there with the best of all time.

[NorthHawk]

If Bill Cowher is in, the Pete should be as well. Cowher inherited a solid team in an all ready well functioning Front Office. Pete had to build it from the bottom up.

[Aseahawkfan]

Cowher is in the Hall? Why isn't Holmgren then? Pete definitely should be there then.

[RiverDog]

Andy Reid is a first ballot HOF'er.

Tom Coughlin has won 2 SB's, and no one is talking HOF for him because he didn't do squat outside of those two anomalies, not unlike Pete except that Pete has just the one Lombardi.

[Aseahawkfan]

Andy Reid is a first ballot HOF'er.

Tom Coughlin has won 2 SB's, and no one is talking HOF for him because he didn't do squat outside of those two anomalies.

Why is Cowher in the Hall? Player accolades on top of coaching?

[RiverDog]

Andy Reid is a first ballot HOF'er.

Tom Coughlin has won 2 SB's, and no one is talking HOF for him because he didn't do squat outside of those two anomalies.

Why is Cowher in the Hall? Player accolades on top of coaching?

Because he coached the Steelers. Same deal with Tom Flores. He coached the Raiders.

Steelers, Cowboys, Raiders, Niners. If you play or coach for any of those 4 teams, your chances of making the HOF are much greater than if you played or coached for the Seahawks.

[Aseahawkfan]

Because he coached the Steelers. Same deal with Tom Flores. He coached the Raiders.

Steelers, Cowboys, Raiders, Niners. If you play or coach for any of those 4 teams, your chances of making the HOF are much greater than if you played or coached for the Seahawks.

That's BS.

[RiverDog]

Because he coached the Steelers. Same deal with Tom Flores. He coached the Raiders.

Steelers, Cowboys, Raiders, Niners. If you play or coach for any of those 4 teams, your chances of making the HOF are much greater than if you played or coached for the Seahawks.

That's BS.

Agreed, but it's true. How else could Drew Pearson, with just 3 Pro Bowl appearances, and Jerome Bettis, who led the league in rushing just once, make the HOF? It can't be rings because each player had just one. Or, how about Ken Stabler, also with just one ring and just one first team All Pro selection be included? Answer: Because he was a Raider.

[NorthHawk]

It's my understanding that the balloting is heavily weighted by East Coast media and sports figures.
A lot of the writers rarely look at teams outside the NFC/AFC East so they miss great players in the Central/West regions.
Tez would have been a 1st ballot HoF if he played for the Giants and they had the same record as Seattle did during his career. But they rarely saw him and were/are largely uninterested in teams outside their own.
The only way they get noticed is by their team either winning a SB or becoming a threat to do so. Otherwise it's just navel gazing central for the East Coast media.

[RiverDog]

It's my understanding that the balloting is heavily weighted by East Coast media and sports figures.
A lot of the writers rarely look at teams outside the NFC/AFC East so they miss great players in the Central/West regions.
Tez would have been a 1st ballot HoF if he played for the Giants and they had the same record as Seattle did during his career. But they rarely saw him and were/are largely uninterested in teams outside their own.
The only way they get noticed is by their team either winning a SB or becoming a threat to do so. Otherwise it's just navel gazing central for the East Coast media.

I think that's changed somewhat:

The Pro Football Hall of Fame's 50-person Selection Committee is charged with the vital task of continuing to ensure that new enshrinees are the finest the game has produced. [Pro Football Hall of Fame's Selection Process/List of Selection Committee members]

The Committee consists of one media representative from each pro football city — with two from New York and two from Los Angeles, as those cities each have two teams in the National Football League. There are 17 at-large Selectors, who are active members of the media or persons intricately involved in professional football, and one representative of the Pro Football Writers of America. All appointments are open-ended and approved annually by a majority vote of the Hall of Fame's Board of Trustees.

https://www.profootballhof.com/hall-of- ... amer-faqs/

But that's not to say that the committee isn't biased.

[NorthHawk]

I remember Clayton talking about convincing voters about Tez. That suggests that they didn't see him play much because he was one of or maybe the first real big DT who also had the athleticism to consistently rush the passer and chase down
runners. He dominated for most of his career on losing teams while being double and sometimes triple teamed and yet he didn't get in until 2012 even though he retired in 2000 (I think).
How else can that be explained other than and East Coast focus? After all there are far more teams in the east than mid west and west.

[RiverDog]

I remember Clayton talking about convincing voters about Tez. That suggests that they didn't see him play much because he was one of or maybe the first real big DT who also had the athleticism to consistently rush the passer and chase down
runners. He dominated for most of his career on losing teams while being double and sometimes triple teamed and yet he didn't get in until 2012 even though he retired in 2000 (I think).
How else can that be explained other than and East Coast focus? After all there are far more teams in the east than mid west and west.

A bias obviously exists. There's no other explanation as to why TO didn't get in until recently. Nobody liked the A-hole, sportswriters included.

But I contend that a handful of popular teams that at one time were dominant, like the Steelers, Niners, and Cowboys, have a better chance of any given player getting elected than other teams. It's hard to explain how players like Jerome Bettis and Drew Pearson got elected.

[trents]

I just wanted to say a couple of things about the mediocrity we have seen the last few years in Seattle.

1. Yes, we have some talented players sprinkled here and there throughout the roster, just not enough of them. We have talent in the receiving corps and that is probably our strongest unit. We have some talent in the defensive backfield. We have a couple of pretty good O linemen in Lucas and Cross. We have a couple of good linebackers in Brooks and Wags, though Wags has slowed a bit. Our special teams are pretty good. But we lack talent across the board and we lack depth. And when the injuries start to pile up, the lack of depth starts to really show. Our biggest negative is the D line.
2. Though not the most talented team by any means in the league, we still managed to underachieve. The team as a whole had tuned Pete out some time ago and were were not getting "A" games from many of our players. I think the shoddy tacking we saw, especially in the last couple of games, demonstrated they had ceased to care. Lack of Pete's willingness to discipline out of control players like Metcalf and Jamal Adams was a major contributing factor to deterioration in esprit de corps. Pete as a man has some really good qualities but I hope the next head coach will bring more toughness to the table.