Draft wishes

[Oly]

The Grubb thread is turning into a draft thread so I thought we might as well start one on what we would like to see in the draft.

The elephant in the room is QB, and I desperately want the QBOTF in this draft. Unfortunately, outside of the top three, I don't think any of them are clearly The Guy. Penix looked the best at the combine, but I put much more stock in game tape, and I wasn't impressed in the National Championship game. He was just too erratic for the pro game. I think it's possible he matures, but he was making mistakes he shouldn't be making at his age. If he were 21, I'd say it's worth the gamble. But he's 23—will be 24 when training camp opens—and he should be more reliable by now. And this says nothing of his injuries. I wouldn't mind him in the 2nd, but I don't think he's worth a first. Nor is any other of the non-Big-3 QBs. I hope JS sees something in one of these guys that I don't see, and if he picks a QB I'll instantly be hopeful as I trust JS's evaluation of QBs.

We need interior linemen on both sides of the line, and maybe another RT if Lucas' knee isn't responding to treatment. Hell, if the Hawks felt like a franchise LT fell into their lap and they thought he or cross could move to LG, I'd be down for that. Mafe is the only D-lineman under contract that I think is good enough to be a clear starter. Well, probably Nwosu, but he's good-not-great and could be upgraded for his age and cost. I'd like them to re-sign Williams. So if a lineman with a top-10 grade is on the board, I'd like to see them draft him.

Unless a guy with a top-10 grade slides to #16, I want them to trade down. With a new sheriff in town, I think they're going to need as many new guns as possible. The draft seems to have value on Day 2, and getting more of those picks is going to really help Macdonald and Grubbs install their new system.

Please no WR or TE (yes, even Bowers) unless they trade either Lockett or DK. No RB, either. We need to fill the trenches in the first two rounds.

I don't think S or LB are important enough for Round 1, but they'll definitely be looking to upgrade there.

[jshawaii22]

Penix and Nix's age doesn't matter to me, but Penix's injury history does. I only watched west coast college + playoffs, and assuming the top 3 are gone, other then Penix, Nix and Michigan's skinny kid QB, I don't know enough about the others to jump in. I prefer Penix right now as he has a very accurate arm for both sidelines and deep throws... he can learn the short passing game while he sits behind Geno for at least a year.
I didn't know who Russell Wilson was either a decade + ago, so I'll leave it up to JS, but he needs to do this and not play games.
Wasn't Russell 23 when we drafted him?

[RiverDog]

This season seems to be the year to grab a QB and that would be my first preference, but #16 is pretty low, and I'm not for trading up as those moves seldom work out (think Trey Lance). If our QBOTF doesn't fall to us, I wouldn't mind trading down and hopefully get that 2nd rounder back.

Outside of that, our priority has to be up front on both sides of the LOS.

[NorthHawk]

I think they have to trade down. There are just too many good players between 16 and 78 and we have a lot of FAs of our own that we might not want to re-sign in this new system.
It would be ideal if we could trade back twice, but that might be too much to hope for, however the 2nd round pick plus more would be great.
Off the top of my head, we don't look like we are re-signing Lewis at G, will release at least 1 Safety, and only have Dissly at TE in a shallow TE class along with tight Cap space this year and next.
We also need help along the DL and at LB, so it points to more picks.
Unfortunately, other teams know that, too so getting the best deal might be more difficult than if we had a lot of Cap space and could fill a few of the holes in FA.
It's going to be interesting.

[Oly]

Penix and Nix's age doesn't matter to me, but Penix's injury history does. I only watched west coast college + playoffs, and assuming the top 3 are gone, other then Penix, Nix and Michigan's skinny kid QB, I don't know enough about the others to jump in. I prefer Penix right now as he has a very accurate arm for both sidelines and deep throws... he can learn the short passing game while he sits behind Geno for at least a year.
I didn't know who Russell Wilson was either a decade + ago, so I'll leave it up to JS, but he needs to do this and not play games.
Wasn't Russell 23 when we drafted him?

His age on its own doesn't bother me. It's that he is surprisingly unreliable in the short passing game and gets flustered when pressured and then his mechanics suffer. It's more about bad mechanics and being jumpy at 24 than being 24. He's nowhere near Tebow-bad, but Tebow is the poster child for a general truism that when you draft an older QB, the mechanics you see are generally the mechanics you're going to get.

I'm with you that if JS thinks he can fix him, I'd fall in line with the pick. But it doesn't look promising to me.

[NorthHawk]

Every QB has some warts coming into the draft, and the lower they are projected to go, the more warts there are.
I wouldn't take him at 16 because I'm not convinced he's worth that - but if the FO thinks he can be their QBOTF, then they should select him.
Now after selecting him at 16, how do you protect him from his biggest concerns? There are only 6 picks left and the last 2 are 194 and 233 in a draft that looks to fall off after the 4th or maybe early 5th round.

[c_hawkbob]

Every QB has some warts coming into the draft, and the lower they are projected to go, the more warts there are.
I wouldn't take him at 16 because I'm not convinced he's worth that - but if the FO thinks he can be their QBOTF, then they should select him.
Now after selecting him at 16, how do you protect him from his biggest concerns? There are only 6 picks left and the last 2 are 194 and 233 in a draft that looks to fall off after the 4th or maybe early 5th round.

Drew Boylhart would end that bolded question "how do you protect him?":

BOTTOM LINE: 1.47
Because we don’t have Tight Ends that block or fullbacks, and teams send 6 players from the defense against 5 offensive linemen, the NFL is now looking for a more athletic quarterback who can extend plays running the ball and throwing the ball on the run. At one time, Michael was one of those types of quarterbacks. Now Michael is a pocket-passing extraordinaire type of quarterback; believe me, those are rare, especially with Michael’s accuracy. There is no throw in the NFL quarterback book, that Michael can’t make with the velocity, accuracy, or touch, needed to bring a team from behind to win a game. Don’t worry about drafting receivers because Michael can make anyone a better receiver. Don’t worry about drafting a running back because Michael will force teams to play light in the box allowing his running back to run the ball effectively. Just worry about one thing after you select Michael…drafting and finding offensive lineman to protect him. You do that and trust me, Michael will take you to a Super Bowl.

Drew Boylhart

https://www.thehuddlereport.com/blog/?p=3884

[Aseahawkfan]

My preference is to find a trade partner at 16, trade down to later in the 1st round, pick up an excellent LB while acquiring a second round pick or an additional third round pick. Then focus more on rebuilding the defensive line with some beef or additional LBs. It will depend on what we do in free agency.

I don't see the 16th pick as a great position to draft a QB. I'd rather roll with Geno and rebuild the defense where we know that unit is solid. Then we can focus on a line rebuild and taking a QB opportunistically in the first or a later round that has time to develop in future drafts.

I believe Pete's trades have so thoroughly harmed this team's ability to compete and stack talent that this is a multi-year rebuild through the draft. This year should focus on LB given the draft capital we have with maybe a focus on interior beef on the defensive and offensive line with later round picks, positions Pete never valued that are vitally important to team success. We need a good run stuffing DT that can hold the line and a some big guards who can hold the middle. Maybe a center as well.

I would focus on depleted positions like LB and interior line. We're stacked at receiver and RB. We could probably use a good strong safety as well and will hopefully be cutting loose Adams very soon.

Free agency will give us a far clearer picture of draft needs.

I don't think we're ready on offense or defense to develop a young QB. I would prefer to have a team ready to insert a QB that can learn without feeling all the pressure to win like when we inserted Russ with a strong defense and run game backing him up. Defense is currently the worst unit on the team and getting rid of dead weight eating up cap space and bringing in young, motivated talent to improve the run defense and help our secondary should be priority. Riq Woolen being a weak tackler is not great, but in reality Riq Woolen should not be having to make tough tackles often enough that we care that much about his tackling ability. Riq is there to defense the pass. But when your run defense is so bad that you are getting constantly gashed to the point your DBs are making tackles on RBs, that is your biggest problem to fix and the priority in the draft and free agency.

[NorthHawk]

I think there will be some big changes on both sides of the ball.
Partly because we can't afford to re-sign all of our own FA's, but also because of the change of philosophies with new DC and OC along with the departure of Carroll and his influence/direction.
In part because we need more bodies at cheaper rates, we will probably be forced to trade down from 16 at least once but the draft looks like it would be in our favor to do so as the meat of the draft looks like it's round 2-4.
Also I can't see John being willing to sit for 61 picks while so many players that could help this team are being selected by other teams.
So I see this draft like we had a few years ago - a building block draft setting the foundation for the new direction JS and MM want to take the team.

[4XPIPS]

I have been wrong more than I have been correct at times, but I was hoping for Mike Macdonald well before the season was over and I am very excited he is on board and we can began a new era. If I had a say in draft picks this one would be something I would go for considering it would probably go against what the immediate needs are, but I would make the leap up if he is available and I would take Brock Bowers from Georgia.

Dynamic, "do it all" tight ends don't come around often, and Brock is one of those tight ends that will be a name you will hear about for the next 8 to 10 seasons. He can do it all, and probably better than most TEs currently in the NFL. There are only so many gifted tight ends in the NFL, and when you have a chance to snag one that can drastically alter your offense in more ways then one I would take the leap and get him. He is projected to land somewhere near 8 to 12, but if we he slips near 10 I would be calling to trade up and get him.

There are still good QB prospects, and history proves that most times when there are a run of QBs at the top of the first round, most of the times they don't work out. I would be fine taking Bo Nix in the 3rd round and work on his development.

[NorthHawk]

I expect them to cut Brian Mone as well and that would provide another $5M in Cap relief.

So quickly looking at Overthecap, they may have about $50M in Cap space.
That means they could be able to re-sign Williams and not make that trade a disaster, provided he wants to stay for a rebuild.
As well, we might be able to get involved in FA.

[Old but Slow]

One of my main focuses will be on the safeties in the middle rounds. There is some real talent in that group and it is a big need currently (see recent cuts). Nubin, Mustapha, Oladapo, and Bullard are very promising. I would like to see a good route running wide receiver like Luke McCaffrey in the late rounds, the tight end All has been injured but would be a good late gamble who could excel if healthy again. Linebacker is a huge question mark for me--no clue. I am intrigued by the corner T J Tampa, who has a real alpha feel about him.

As for the first, I would stick and pick for Penix, Verse, or Chop Robinson, but would otherwise like to trade down, maybe even out of the first in order to add picks in the middle rounds, where I think this class really shines.

If we are not able to get one of the early QBs, I would favor Rattler.

Although it is painful to contemplate, I am hoping for a mediocre season even though I am enthusiastic about the new staff. The coming season is mostly irrelevant except as a restructure. It will interesting to see how the new coaches will deal with the many fine looking athletes they have to work with.

Enough blathering, how about them Mariners?.

[NorthHawk]

I agree with a lot of what you said, ObS but I think the trade down scenario is the most likely.
With every new regime comes changes in philosophy and skill/size requirements so I look at this draft and next like the building block drafts of a couple of years ago with us needing to fill numerous holes.
Some of that can come in FA, but the best fits usually come via the draft.
I read an article about Baltimore and that they put a premium on character over measureables like size, speed, and length. I don't know if McDonald thinks the same, and I'm not sure if Schneider does as well or if that was Pete's formula.
So this draft should tell us how they approach player acquisitions and what's important to them.

[Oly]

I was just looking at Rob Staton's horizontal board and thinking about how JS likes to draft. Here's how I think things will shake out:

JS will have a list of a few guys he's willing to draft at #16 if they fall. I'd have to guess that he'll have a QB or two on that list. (Unless he has 100% conviction that QB is The Guy, I don't see him moving up. But if he does, we should get excited.) Who knows who else will be on that list—I didn't foresee him falling in love with Spoon—but I wouldn't be surprised if one of the top OT or EDGE are on that list.

I think it's much more likely he trades down with the idea that after the top OTs (Fuaga and Fautanu) are off the board, there is a glut of guys with similar grades and he can still grab one in the second. Hell, he might be happy enough with a bunch of guys that even if a top target is there at #16, he drops down anyway, collects a late first and second for his troubles, and is content with another OT instead.

Then what will he do with the second round pick? I'd like to see them take a flyer on Zinter. I would love to see to OL with our first two picks. But if he's not there or the injury thing is too severe, then they might be happy to pick up a safety given the newfound need at that position. If Sinnott (the TE) is still there, maybe they pick him up under the same logic. I think JS will be looking to either plug two holes with starters in the first two rounds or get the franchise QB. He'd like more picks, sure, but I think either of these two scenarios would make him happy.

After that, who knows. I suppose it will be mostly BPA. I'd be surprised if they left the draft without a fast LB who could contribute on special teams and an EDGE/DE because it's important to buy lots of those lottery tickets.

Another random thought: I was thinking that they might trade Lockett for some cap relief, but with such a strong group of WR in the draft, I don't think they'd get more than a warm can of Diet Coke for him.

[NorthHawk]

Do we really know how JS likes to draft?
Pete overshadowed every draft and had final say on personnel, so how much influence did JS have and how many times did he just do what Pete wanted?
This draft should tell us a lot about his philosophies and how much they differ from Pete's vision, so it wouldn't surprise me if we ended up with a bunch of players we didn't expect (like previous drafts) that fit with the new coaches views.
It could end up being a very predictable draft, or a wild ride with trades down and up throughout.
Basically I don't think we know what JS likes to do. Yet.

[c_hawkbob]

Do we really know how JS likes to draft?
Pete overshadowed every draft and had final say on personnel, so how much influence did JS have and how many times did he just do what Pete wanted?
This draft should tell us a lot about his philosophies and how much they differ from Pete's vision, so it wouldn't surprise me if we ended up with a bunch of players we didn't expect (like previous drafts) that fit with the new coaches views.
It could end up being a very predictable draft, or a wild ride with trades down and up throughout.
Basically I don't think we know what JS likes to do. Yet.

That's exactly what I was gonna say: I'm not so sure we know how Schneider likes to draft sans Pete.

[RiverDog]

Do we really know how JS likes to draft?
Pete overshadowed every draft and had final say on personnel, so how much influence did JS have and how many times did he just do what Pete wanted?
This draft should tell us a lot about his philosophies and how much they differ from Pete's vision, so it wouldn't surprise me if we ended up with a bunch of players we didn't expect (like previous drafts) that fit with the new coaches views.
It could end up being a very predictable draft, or a wild ride with trades down and up throughout.
Basically I don't think we know what JS likes to do. Yet.

That's exactly what I was gonna say: I'm not so sure we know how Schneider likes to draft sans Pete.

Yup.

Everyone tends to blame Pete for every bad deal that went down, which is understandable as he was the one with the authority to say yes or no. He rightfully was the primary culprit, should and did shoulder most of the blame. But it was John who was likely the one who was doing the actual bargaining, making offers and counter offers then showing the final proposal to Pete for his OK. JS has dirty hands as well.

But we don't know to what degree. It's going to be an interesting draft.

[Oly]

Do we really know how JS likes to draft?
Pete overshadowed every draft and had final say on personnel, so how much influence did JS have and how many times did he just do what Pete wanted?
This draft should tell us a lot about his philosophies and how much they differ from Pete's vision, so it wouldn't surprise me if we ended up with a bunch of players we didn't expect (like previous drafts) that fit with the new coaches views.
It could end up being a very predictable draft, or a wild ride with trades down and up throughout.
Basically I don't think we know what JS likes to do. Yet.

Fair point. I particularly agree with the part that's bolded above. We don't know the type of player he likes. I feel that's where Pete had such a heavy influence. It's why I'm not projecting which QB or OT he likes (even if I think Fuaga and Fautanu are clearly the best).

But we do know a lot about his approach to the draft based on his public comments. Some of that might have been trying to parrot whatever Pete wanted, but I doubt that's all of it. I feel listening to JS that while he holds many of his cards close to his chest, when he shows some you can trust he's being honest. And he's said that QB is so important that he tries to find one every year. He's also talked a lot about the value of trading down and getting more bites at the apple and also about character in recent years. So I think his approach to the draft itself can be pieced together somewhat, and that's why I thought he'd try for the QBOTF first and if that doesn't pan out, trade down for value.

[NorthHawk]

You may very well be right. But I was watching the Pat McAffee show the other day and they were talking about GMs and how to them it's like a big poker game where everyone is bluffing and it Lyin' Season.
I would think that happens all year long but this time of year is like the playoffs and championship game at draft time for the GMs of the league.

So how much of what he says is the truth? I have no idea. Maybe 25% is truthful to keep others guessing or it may be much more or much less.
Bottom line for me is his actions will speak for what he believes rather than his words at this point.
I think the other variable is how much influence MacDonald has. I'm sure it's a collaboration with all of the coaches and JS having final say\, but can the HC sway him at all?

In any event it's going to be a different dynamic in the draft process and on draft day and I think it will be interesting and maybe fun to watch unfold.

[Aseahawkfan]

It is going to be damn interesting to see how JS drafts without Pete. I'm sure MacDonald must have given John some idea of what he needs to make things work. Free agency first will focus draft needs and wants more. I want to see what kind of players MacDonald wants.

[Old but Slow]

John S will listen to everybody. He has a rep of being thorough in his research and I expect he will listen closely to all of the new staff. In the end, JS will make well thought out solutions. Listen to everybody, add a dash of salt, and learn from experience. We will never really know how much Pete's choices swayed JS in his drafting, but it will be interesting to see how he handles this.

We have had good and bad drafts and John is the GM, so there is some doubt about how he will do, but I think he has a grip. Let's see the next couple of drafts, and we may have a different opinion than we have now.

He must be overjoyed about the coaching staff he has accumulated and the promise that there will be a new dynamism.

As an aside, I am interested to see the impact this staff will have on some players on the team who have underperformed. McDonald's people have seemed to turn some players into strong contributors. I am thinking of players like Brooks, Darrell Taylor, and Dre'Mont Jones.

[NorthHawk]

PC and JS started out drafting very well, then went away from the plan that got them so much talent.
How much of that was Pete Carroll and how much was that John Schneider? He re-signed with Pete during this bad phase, so he must have been OK with it to a large degree.

We'll see how the next couple of drafts work out then be able to get a handle on how his approach is different or the similar.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Didn’t want to start a new topic, but Nee England just traded Mac Jones to JAX for a 2024 6th rounder. Kind of wish the Seahawks would have made that move. He’d have been a cheap back up option if they didn’t resign Lock and young enough with some upside.

[RiverDog]

Didn’t want to start a new topic, but Nee England just traded Mac Jones to JAX for a 2024 6th rounder. Kind of wish the Seahawks would have made that move. He’d have been a cheap back up option if they didn’t resign Lock and young enough with some upside.

The Pats are sitting on the #3 overall, so they're likely making way for a rookie QB. I wouldn't be at all surprised if our old friend Russell ends up signing with them and starts at least part of the first year so as not to throw him to the wolves right from the get-go. The Patriots have been the destination I've felt was most likely for RW since it was apparent that the Broncos were going to release him.

As far as the possibility of our trading for Jones, I guess I wouldn't have objected, but they might want a QB that's more of a running threat ala Lamar Jackson as our QBOTF.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I just mean take a flier on the guy and see what happens. Not pegging him as QBOTF.

[Rambo2014]

Hey, where are your guy's compensatory picks?????

Rams and Niners got 5 apiece

[curmudgeon]

Parkinson gone. Rams….

[RiverDog]

Parkinson gone. Rams….

Saw that, too. Fant and Dissly are both free agents. With Parkinson gone, you'd think that we'd resign at least one of those two.

[Aseahawkfan]

Hey, where are your guy's compensatory picks?????

Rams and Niners got 5 apiece

Maybe we'll get one for Jamal Adams.

[RiverDog]

Hey, where are your guy's compensatory picks?????

Rams and Niners got 5 apiece

Maybe we'll get one for Jamal Adams.

Nope. Adams was cut with several years remaining on his contract. Among other criteria, comp picks are awarded only for players who leave via free agency after their contract is up.

The fact that the Rams and Niners were awarded so many comp picks isn't necessarily a good thing for them as it indicates that they lost some quality players through free agency. As usual, Ramblow has his head up his rear.

[NorthHawk]

They’ve done pretty well with their late round and comp picks, unlike us.

[jshawaii22]

49er comps seem to be more geared to losing non-white coaches to other teams. You can get up to 3 per year and they seem to work that game pretty well to the point the NFL is looking at limiting the comps, but not this year.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Lewis went to the Panthers; Lock to the Giants. That's a starting guard and No. 2 QB that now need to be replaced. I don't know how Seattle can even consider staying put in the draft. A move down from their No. 1 seems more and more likely.

[NorthHawk]

Lewis went to the Panthers; Lock to the Giants. That's a starting guard and No. 2 QB that now need to be replaced. I don't know how Seattle can even consider staying put in the draft. A move down from their No. 1 seems more and more likely.

When teams rebuild, they need more draft picks so trading down would be the preferred strategy.

[Old but Slow]

The trade down option seems the best option unless a QB they want is there. Rob Staton's horizontal board shows that he finds just over 20 players with first round grades, and at pick 16 there will likely be teams that will find the cost reasonable and make a trade, perhaps to get a player they like.

I would be tempted to stick and pick for an edge rusher, too as there are very few top ones in this class. Wait until the middle rounds and take Brennan Jackson the edge from WSU who is being over looked by most might be enough to trade down anyway...even for Jarad Verse (who won't be there).

[RiverDog]

I like the trade down option in the first round, too. We're not just a player or two away from being competitive as Pete believed for the past 8 years. We need bodies so we can afford to miss on one or two picks. Of course, it all depends on if we can get a dance partner. And being that Schneider's MO has been to trade down vs. trading up, I'd put some pretty good money on it.

[NorthHawk]

They are starting to fill out the roster in FA by signing OG Nick Harris who played last year for the Browns and TE Pharaoh Brown from the Patriots.

Edit: They also tendered Myles Adams DT. I don't know what round the tender is.

[Uppercut]

LOL

PC must be somewhere with his feet up, chewing gum and grinning about the draino approach to football

[NorthHawk]

He did the same thing in 2010. It's what happens in a rebuild.

[curmudgeon]

Scot McCloughan was the architect of Seattle’s SB teams. After he left P&J struggled with personnel acquisitions. We’ll see if John can rise above the track record of missteps……