Let The S*** Show Begin

[River Dog]

Then it simply means that my explanation isn't correct.

What we do know is that Trump is erratic, unpredictable. Look at all of the campaign promises he's broken. He said that on Day One, he'd launch the greatest deportation effort ever, but despite the headlines about the Venezuelan nationals, he's removed fewer illegal aliens last month than Biden did in February 2024. He pledged to end the war in Ukraine within 24 hours of taking office. He promised to lower the price of gas and last Thursday, claimed that the price was under $2.00/gallon in "a couple of states" even though the lowest in the nation was at a station in Texas at $2.17. The nationwide price of gas in January 2025 was $3.08, today it's $3.27. He promised to lower grocery prices, and those have gone up and will go up even further due to his tariffs. Eggs alone have increased 8% since he took office.

I could go on and on. But the point is that Trump is very erratic, talks out his arse, says and does things that make no sense whatsoever and have no basis in fact. I think he's nuts as he demonstrates a lot of the traits of a person who is mentally compromised and would explain nearly everything about his behavior.

And you're right, Trump isn't behind the curtains throwing switches and pulling levers. Half the time he doesn't even know what DOGE has done, they are almost an independent department with no oversight whatsoever. Sometimes they hit on a good idea, like ending the production of pennies and cutting back at USPS, other times they step in it, like closing SSA offices (how many times have you heard Trump say that he wasn't going to touch SS or Medicare?)

Trump is playing golf. Elon paid 270 million to ride his coattails. He's gotta let Elon do what Elon does...like ruin his Tesla business, hope that right wing voters who don't believe in climate change buy his Teslas, and impregnate random women he meets on X to seed the planet. Elon is definitely nuts. That guy has lost it.

So we basically have two crazy rich guys running the country. Neither one sleeps very much, which probably contributes to their crazy.

Up until a few months ago, I didn't know that much about Elon Musk. But boy, he's as nuts as Trump. When Trump first appointed him to head up DOGE, I was optimistic that he found a guy with a business background, and a successful one at that, to run the country more like a big business instead of some nonprofit charity. But some of the things he's done are just insane, like making govt. employees write down what they did last week in order to justify their continued employment. It sounds like he's giving a 3rd grade class an essay assignment.

There's a part of me that laughed at Musk for his dedication to Trump when these tariffs torpedoed Tesla's stock. Serves him right.

[Aseahawkfan]

Up until a few months ago, I didn't know that much about Elon Musk. But boy, he's as nuts as Trump. When Trump first appointed him to head up DOGE, I was optimistic that he found a guy with a business background, and a successful one at that, to run the country more like a big business instead of some nonprofit charity. But some of the things he's done are just insane, like making govt. employees write down what they did last week in order to justify their continued employment. It sounds like he's giving a 3rd grade class an essay assignment.

There's a part of me that laughed at Musk for his dedication to Trump when these tariffs torpedoed Tesla's stock. Serves him right.

I made money investing in Tesla. I've been following Elon for a while. He's built an incredible business empire. But he is nuts. Never lived paycheck to paycheck in his life. He's vain getting hair transplants to look more acceptable and pursue celebrity for the sake of celebrity. Names his kid some symbol. Doesn't sleep much. Claims to be a free speech absolutist while he does business in China. He spent 44 billion on Twitter because he could, then reinstated Trump, and spend 270 million on his campaign...because he could. He is not in touch with reality.

People like him can be great for business. But not great for stable government.

[River Dog]

Up until a few months ago, I didn't know that much about Elon Musk. But boy, he's as nuts as Trump. When Trump first appointed him to head up DOGE, I was optimistic that he found a guy with a business background, and a successful one at that, to run the country more like a big business instead of some nonprofit charity. But some of the things he's done are just insane, like making govt. employees write down what they did last week in order to justify their continued employment. It sounds like he's giving a 3rd grade class an essay assignment.

There's a part of me that laughed at Musk for his dedication to Trump when these tariffs torpedoed Tesla's stock. Serves him right.

I made money investing in Tesla. I've been following Elon for a while. He's built an incredible business empire. But he is nuts. Never lived paycheck to paycheck in his life. He's vain getting hair transplants to look more acceptable and pursue celebrity for the sake of celebrity. Names his kid some symbol. Doesn't sleep much. Claims to be a free speech absolutist while he does business in China. He spent 44 billion on Twitter because he could, then reinstated Trump, and spend 270 million on his campaign...because he could. He is not in touch with reality.

People like him can be great for business. But not great for stable government.

I'm actually in favor of some of the things Musk and DOGE has done. My problem is that there is very little if any thought put into their cuts. I see no evidence of any kind of cost/benefit analysis. It's like they're sitting around in a cocktail lounge and brainstorming about cutting this or that program. I can't image a business tightening their belts in the same manner Musk and DODE are doing with the federal government.

Some people handle their inherited wealth well, others don't. I've read a lot about JFK, and when he was commanding a PT boat, he'd jump into the water and help his crew scrape barnacles off the hull of the boat. He maintained those friendships into his presidency. His older brother Joe Jr. was the polar opposite, frequently getting in fist fights with his fellow airmen because he was such a stuck up prick.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm actually in favor of some of the things Musk and DOGE has done. My problem is that there is very little if any thought put into their cuts. I see no evidence of any kind of cost/benefit analysis. It's like they're sitting around in a cocktail lounge and brainstorming about cutting this or that program. I can't image a business tightening their belts in the same manner Musk and DODE are doing with the federal government.

Some people handle their inherited wealth well, others don't. I've read a lot about JFK, and when he was commanding a PT boat, he'd jump into the water and help his crew scrape barnacles off the hull of the boat. He maintained those friendships into his presidency. His older brother Joe Jr. was the polar opposite, frequently getting in fist fights with his fellow airmen because he was such a stuck up prick.

I don't care for unelected billionaires in charge of cost cutting programs for the government. That seems like a bad methodology for these types of programs. I'm not even sure Congress has approved the DOGE department or the powers they seem to be wielding. It's all very strange and part of the greater narrative of Trump and Elon wanting to run the government like a business with them as the CEO with absolute power.

Elon didn't inherit his wealth. He didn't come from a poor family, but his wealth comes from him. Elon was part of a group called the Paypal Mafia. This group became billionaires from building up and selling Paypal. Then Elon took the money from Paypal and purchased controlling interest in Tesla. Tesla went from a start up to nearly a trillion dollar valuation EV company with him as the main owner controlling the voting in interest in shares. The majority of his wealth comes from Tesla.

The Paypal Mafia is highly influential in today's politics, mainly Peter Thiel and Elon Musk on the Right and Reid Hoffman on the left. Peter Thiel is connected to Trump and J.D. Vance. He's one of those behind the scenes guys we all know exist, but often like to stay out of the spotlight and control from the shadows. One of those folks my friend calls "Our Shadowy Masters."

On a side note, Peter Thiel identifies as a Libertarian and he supported Trump's rise, which is more evidence Trump was supported heavily by the Libertarian Arm of the Republican Party which Peter Thiel knew well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal_Mafia

I've always told you and I think you have some idea of it that America is run by people that aren't elected. Politicians don't have the money to run their own campaigns and need wealthy connections to become politicians on the national and often even state level. This leads them to be controlled from moment they take office and makes America less than a Democracy, but also keeps the mob from controlling the government and its vast resources. The balance point is the powerful must make sure they don't so ruin the Middle and Working Class that they revolt and tear everything up given they are the engine for the economy.

That being said this is the most blatant show of corporate power in the nation's history. It's all in our face right now that corporate America is what really runs this nation from having a Real Estate CEO as president with no political experience and the richest man in the world running the government cost cutting program after he bought Twitter, re-instated Trump. spent 270 million on his campaign, got his friend Joe Rogan to help humanize Trump close to the election date, and pretty obviously was a major force in getting Trump elected. I cannot recall a time in history when it was so obvious that one super wealthy man blatantly paid for a president to take office.

It's another reason why the Russian talk is a shrug at this point. What helped Trump become president the most? Who does he answer to the most? Take a look at Elon, a man so wealthy and connected he can buy a popular social media platform for Trump to Tweet on and then spend 270 million on his campaign while remaining the wealthiest person in the world. You don't even see Vivek doing anything right now, but Elon is giving press conferences in the White House with his kid.

[River Dog]

It's another reason why the Russian talk is a shrug at this point. What helped Trump become president the most? Who does he answer to the most? Take a look at Elon, a man so wealthy and connected he can buy a popular social media platform for Trump to Tweet on and then spend 270 million on his campaign while remaining the wealthiest person in the world. You don't even see Vivek doing anything right now, but Elon is giving press conferences in the White House with his kid.

I'm not sure if I'd assign that much weight to Musk for Trump's success. IMO the biggest factor in Trump's election was the Democrats. Biden left the race too late in the game denying their candidate of a primary process, Harris ran a horrible campaign, going into hiding after the convention, and the Democrats' message/image is completely out of step with the mainstream. They are not giving the country a viable alternative.

Trump is pushing the boundaries on both of the other two sides of the government, the Legislative and Judicial branches. Congress is supposed to have control over funding, or at least that's what I've always been taught, and Trump is thumbing his nose at the judiciary, even SCOTUS, 1/3 of which he appointed.

I've read a lot of history about 20th century POTUS's, and I am reminded of Eisenhower, how he disagreed with SCOTUS's decision in the Brown vs. Board of Education that de-segregated public schools, feeling that it was a state's rights issue. When the Arkansas governor refused to send in the National Guard to protect black kids trying to enroll in a public high school after Eisenhower asked him to, Ike nationalized the guard and sent them in on his authority, saying that the rule of law must be respected.

Trump is the polar opposite, thinking that his judgment should supersede that of the courts, even SCOTUS.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not sure if I'd assign that much weight to Musk for Trump's success. IMO the biggest factor in Trump's election was the Democrats. Biden left the race too late in the game denying their candidate of a primary process, Harris ran a horrible campaign, going into hiding after the convention, and the Democrats' message/image is completely out of step with the mainstream. They are not giving the country a viable alternative.

That was a big factor in the degree of the win. If the Democrats had fielded a reasonable candidate, doubt Rogan would have supported Trump as he isn't particularly conservative. Money runs this country even if you don't want to discuss it or talk about it. The political candidate in both parties take calls from billionaires to get things they want done, in Washington State and in Washington D.C. Elon spent a lot of money, pulled a lot of strings, and has a lot of connections he pulled that no one else could pull.

The previous owner of Twitter was left wing and banned Trump eliminating his ability to Tweet and communicate on social media. Trump used social media more than any president in history to amplify his voice and his social media strategy will be studied by others going forward. AOC is also very good at social media. One of the reasons the polls failed is they aren't as good as monitoring social media at this point and need to get better. AOC may be a better candidate than we imagine because people underestimate her popularity amongst social media users who vote.

Elon is one of the few people to be able to spend 44 billion on Twitter just to put Trump back on, support him, then spend 270 million on his campaign. What do you think 270 million in campaign funds can do to help a candidate win an election?

Trump is pushing the boundaries on both of the other two sides of the government, the Legislative and Judicial branches. Congress is supposed to have control over funding, or at least that's what I've always been taught, and Trump is thumbing his nose at the judiciary, even SCOTUS, 1/3 of which he appointed.

I've read a lot of history about 20th century POTUS's, and I am reminded of Eisenhower, how he disagreed with SCOTUS's decision in the Brown vs. Board of Education that de-segregated public schools, feeling that it was a state's rights issue. When the Arkansas governor refused to send in the National Guard to protect black kids trying to enroll in a public high school after Eisenhower asked him to, Ike nationalized the guard and sent them in on his authority, saying that the rule of law must be respected.

Trump is the polar opposite, thinking that his judgment should supersede that of the courts, even SCOTUS.

Trump is building on the powers Bush Jr/Cheney pushed, but pushing them even farther because he is a CEO and you don't normally get to challenge the CEO. He's used to saying, "Do this" and his hired people do what he told them. Trump's been king his realm for 40 plus years. Kings don't like being questioned by plebes.

What doesn't help either is the Democrats are abusing the courts and using them to defy even reasonable laws. The media doesn't want to talk about it, but the Democrats using Title 9 to push transgender females into female sports and all the uses of the court to attack political opponents, undermine normal immigration law, and not handling the drug problem very well as well as changing felony crime to misdemeanors under the guise of racial inequality is all bad policy.

The biggest difference with Trump is does things in an open, combative, loud, rude way while the Democrats are quiet, sneaky, and yet still undermining the law and using the government system to bludgeon people with taxes, regulation, and push their agenda like a sneaky, amoral lawyer would.

[River Dog]

I'm not sure if I'd assign that much weight to Musk for Trump's success. IMO the biggest factor in Trump's election was the Democrats. Biden left the race too late in the game denying their candidate of a primary process, Harris ran a horrible campaign, going into hiding after the convention, and the Democrats' message/image is completely out of step with the mainstream. They are not giving the country a viable alternative.

That was a big factor in the degree of the win. If the Democrats had fielded a reasonable candidate, doubt Rogan would have supported Trump as he isn't particularly conservative. Money runs this country even if you don't want to discuss it or talk about it. The political candidate in both parties take calls from billionaires to get things they want done, in Washington State and in Washington D.C. Elon spent a lot of money, pulled a lot of strings, and has a lot of connections he pulled that no one else could pull.

The previous owner of Twitter was left wing and banned Trump eliminating his ability to Tweet and communicate on social media. Trump used social media more than any president in history to amplify his voice and his social media strategy will be studied by others going forward. AOC is also very good at social media. One of the reasons the polls failed is they aren't as good as monitoring social media at this point and need to get better. AOC may be a better candidate than we imagine because people underestimate her popularity amongst social media users who vote.

Elon is one of the few people to be able to spend 44 billion on Twitter just to put Trump back on, support him, then spend 270 million on his campaign. What do you think 270 million in campaign funds can do to help a candidate win an election?

Trump is pushing the boundaries on both of the other two sides of the government, the Legislative and Judicial branches. Congress is supposed to have control over funding, or at least that's what I've always been taught, and Trump is thumbing his nose at the judiciary, even SCOTUS, 1/3 of which he appointed.

I've read a lot of history about 20th century POTUS's, and I am reminded of Eisenhower, how he disagreed with SCOTUS's decision in the Brown vs. Board of Education that de-segregated public schools, feeling that it was a state's rights issue. When the Arkansas governor refused to send in the National Guard to protect black kids trying to enroll in a public high school after Eisenhower asked him to, Ike nationalized the guard and sent them in on his authority, saying that the rule of law must be respected.

Trump is the polar opposite, thinking that his judgment should supersede that of the courts, even SCOTUS.

Trump is building on the powers Bush Jr/Cheney pushed, but pushing them even farther because he is a CEO and you don't normally get to challenge the CEO. He's used to saying, "Do this" and his hired people do what he told them. Trump's been king his realm for 40 plus years. Kings don't like being questioned by plebes.

What doesn't help either is the Democrats are abusing the courts and using them to defy even reasonable laws. The media doesn't want to talk about it, but the Democrats using Title 9 to push transgender females into female sports and all the uses of the court to attack political opponents, undermine normal immigration law, and not handling the drug problem very well as well as changing felony crime to misdemeanors under the guise of racial inequality is all bad policy.

Agreed. I believe that we talked about how Dem policy that de-criminalized most hard drugs had contributed to the homeless problem, that it used to be that prosecutors would use the threat of jail time to get a defendant to accept treatment. Now, since they reduced most drug usage crimes to misdemeanors, they turn them back onto the street. And the whole thing about how minors in this state now have a right to privacy that supersedes that of their parents is ludicrous. That's what I was referring to when I said that the Dems' message/image is horribly broken, that they are not giving moderates like me a viable alternative.

The biggest difference with Trump is does things in an open, combative, loud, rude way while the Democrats are quiet, sneaky, and yet still undermining the law and using the government system to bludgeon people with taxes, regulation, and push their agenda like a sneaky, amoral lawyer would.

Yeah, I agree with that, too.

[Aseahawkfan]

One thing I wanted to mention that gets me every time is the racists with their "States rights, 10th amendment" arguments whenever they're looking to screw someone over for race, gender, or sexual orientation, but out of the other side of their mouth they're all about "individual rights, liberty or death" when it comes to their 1st or 2nd Amendment rights. That's why they always make the stupid States Rights argument in regards to the Civil War and the Civil Rights Act that desegregated. They somehow forget that people of African descent and other descent than European male also get their rights and should have gotten their rights from the creation of nation.

States have no rights to enslave people, never did, and had no rights to enforce segregation or any of that trash. State governments are mini-Federal governments that some racist people like to prop up when making legalistic rubbish arguments against the Civil War and Civil Rights.

I debate these right wingers more than few times and destroy their positions with their own assertions as they claim to love Liberty and love the Constitution.

If you love the American Constitution, then you should hate racism, slavery, and everything that tries to subvert the Bill of Rights. Freedom for all or there is freedom for none because if they can take away your liberty based on physical characteristic of your birth or nationality or because you want to have sex with a specific gender, then you don't have freedom...you have mob rule taking whatever rights they want at gunpoint and taking away those rights from others at gunpoint.

States have no more rights to take away individual liberties than does the Federal government.

[River Dog]

One thing I wanted to mention that gets me every time is the racists with their "States rights, 10th amendment" arguments whenever they're looking to screw someone over for race, gender, or sexual orientation, but out of the other side of their mouth they're all about "individual rights, liberty or death" when it comes to their 1st or 2nd Amendment rights. That's why they always make the stupid States Rights argument in regards to the Civil War and the Civil Rights Act that desegregated. They somehow forget that people of African descent and other descent than European male also get their rights and should have gotten their rights from the creation of nation.

States have no rights to enslave people, never did, and had no rights to enforce segregation or any of that trash. State governments are mini-Federal governments that some racist people like to prop up when making legalistic rubbish arguments against the Civil War and Civil Rights.

I debate these right wingers more than few times and destroy their positions with their own assertions as they claim to love Liberty and love the Constitution.

If you love the American Constitution, then you should hate racism, slavery, and everything that tries to subvert the Bill of Rights. Freedom for all or there is freedom for none because if they can take away your liberty based on physical characteristic of your birth or nationality or because you want to have sex with a specific gender, then you don't have freedom...you have mob rule taking whatever rights they want at gunpoint and taking away those rights from others at gunpoint.

States have no more rights to take away individual liberties than does the Federal government.

Yeah, states' rights arguments have been used as cover for a person's race hatred for a long time. Ike deserves some legitimate criticism for his position on that SCOTUS decision, that plus he was slow to react in sending in troops to enforce it. Stephen Ambrose, Ike's personal biographer and one of my favorite authors, felt that one reason why he acted wasn't so much due to his dedication to the rule of law, but because Ike was a career military man and was pissed at the Arkansas governor, that he refused to take orders from a superior. But in his defense, Ike was a white man born into the world of Jim Crowism in the 1890's, and he eventually did the right thing. I would give my left arm to have him as our POTUS today.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah, states' rights arguments have been used as cover for a person's race hatred for a long time. Ike deserves some legitimate criticism for his position on that SCOTUS decision, that plus he was slow to react in sending in troops to enforce it. Stephen Ambrose, Ike's personal biographer and one of my favorite authors, felt that one reason why he acted wasn't so much due to his dedication to the rule of law, but because Ike was a career military man and was pissed at the Arkansas governor, that he refused to take orders from a superior. But in his defense, Ike was a white man born into the world of Jim Crowism in the 1890's, and he eventually did the right thing. I would give my left arm to have him as our POTUS today.

I like Ike and am sure he was responding to Alabama leadership's attempt to assert States' Rights same as the Southern Leadership lies spread when they seceded and the attempt post-Reconstruction to ennoble their efforts with lies against the North and Lincoln.

I still like Jefferson and Washington as well. I don't like conservative revisionism but I also don't like the left holding past people to standards of behavior that wasn't the norm of the time. Both of these positions are ridiculous. The American Constitution is an amazing document not just because of what it says and its attempt to create a balanced and People empowered government, but because of who wrote it and how somehow this document managed to remain as powerful a conscience for this nation to dismantle slavery and pursue this illusive idea of equality outlined in the preamble. Washington setting the example early on that there would be no king and that power would be transferred peacefully even though he was a our first General over the army and an amazing war leader set the precedent that the system and the beliefs it was based on are more important than personal power or one man's aggrandizement. The rarity of such a trait within a military leader that led revolution and then set aside power of the betterment of a nation can't be stated enough. Both of these men did something extraordinary to make America a great nation that has maintained as long as we have with a peaceful transition of power and a constant desire to better seek that equality and the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness that guides us.

It's the later people who either want these men to be perfect and infallible or try to cast them down as evil that are ridiculous. Appreciate Jefferson and Washington for what they did right while not failing to acknowledge they were stuck in a time when slavery was common and they were raised to it. Be happy they helped set in motion the destruction of that way of life and the associated colonialism that spawned it.

[River Dog]

Yeah, states' rights arguments have been used as cover for a person's race hatred for a long time. Ike deserves some legitimate criticism for his position on that SCOTUS decision, that plus he was slow to react in sending in troops to enforce it. Stephen Ambrose, Ike's personal biographer and one of my favorite authors, felt that one reason why he acted wasn't so much due to his dedication to the rule of law, but because Ike was a career military man and was pissed at the Arkansas governor, that he refused to take orders from a superior. But in his defense, Ike was a white man born into the world of Jim Crowism in the 1890's, and he eventually did the right thing. I would give my left arm to have him as our POTUS today.

I like Ike and am sure he was responding to Alabama leadership's attempt to assert States' Rights same as the Southern Leadership lies spread when they seceded and the attempt post-Reconstruction to ennoble their efforts with lies against the North and Lincoln.

It wasn't Alabama. It was Little Rock, Arkansas. Several black students, the Little Rock 9, wanted to register at a public high school after the SCOTUS decision that overturned a previous "separate but equal" ruling by a previous SCOTUS. prohibiting racially segregated public schools, that separate but equal was inherently unequal. It was Ike's preference to have the governor of the state, a Democrat named Orval Faubus, call out the national guard instead of the federal government intervening. Ike didn't want to kick up a hornet's nest if he could avoid it as federal encroachment was a hot issue in the south. Ike appealed to Faubus, but he refused, forcing Ike to nationalize the national guard. Ambrose speculated that Faubus's refusal was as much of a motivation for Ike as was enforcing the law because he viewed a state governor as a junior officer that was refusing an order from his CO.

The incident you're thinking about was a few years later when JFK was POTUS. George Wallace standing in the schoolhouse doorway trying to deny entrance to black students at the University of Alabama. It was a scene depicted in the movie "Forrest Gump." That, too, involved a POTUS having to nationalize the national guard to enforce a law that the governor of a state refused to do.

I still like Jefferson and Washington as well. I don't like conservative revisionism but I also don't like the left holding past people to standards of behavior that wasn't the norm of the time. Both of these positions are ridiculous. The American Constitution is an amazing document not just because of what it says and its attempt to create a balanced and People empowered government, but because of who wrote it and how somehow this document managed to remain as powerful a conscience for this nation to dismantle slavery and pursue this illusive idea of equality outlined in the preamble. Washington setting the example early on that there would be no king and that power would be transferred peacefully even though he was a our first General over the army and an amazing war leader set the precedent that the system and the beliefs it was based on are more important than personal power or one man's aggrandizement. The rarity of such a trait within a military leader that led revolution and then set aside power of the betterment of a nation can't be stated enough. Both of these men did something extraordinary to make America a great nation that has maintained as long as we have with a peaceful transition of power and a constant desire to better seek that equality and the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness that guides us.

It's the later people who either want these men to be perfect and infallible or try to cast them down as evil that are ridiculous. Appreciate Jefferson and Washington for what they did right while not failing to acknowledge they were stuck in a time when slavery was common and they were raised to it. Be happy they helped set in motion the destruction of that way of life and the associated colonialism that spawned it.

I agree completely. People have this tendency to judge past figures according to contemporary standards. You have to take into consideration the times that they were in. Slavery was a completely legal, morally correct position to the majority of the people in Washington and Jefferson's day. That doesn't mean that they were right or that we shouldn't be critical of their behavior, just that it has to be footnoted, put into context.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_1GzmjOvKQ

SNL Skit: The White POTUS.

If you haven't seen it, check it out. It's hilarious.