President Trump

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Re: President Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Fri May 12, 2017 1:59 pm

RiverDog wrote:I don't think Trump fired Comey for bungling the Clinton email scandal. I believe he fired him because he thought he was getting too up close and personal into the Russian hacking scandal.

I don't like Trump anymore than I did before election day due more to his personality and less to his politics, but as I predicted, he has not had an easy time getting Republicans to line up behind each and every initiative of his. Plus although the numbers favor the R's holding onto the Senate, I fully expect them to lose the House in '18, which will put a crimp on his agenda. Heck, depending on who the D's put up as a candidate, I'm considering voting for no other reason than to give Trump a vasectomy.


According to the "sources from inside the WH" that he's currently railing about the tipping point came when Comey refused to 'preview' his testimony before congress to him and a panel of trusted advisers.[/quote]


Can someone explain why firing an FBI director who is investigating you after he rebuffed your pressure to be "loyal" and give you a preview of his sworn testimony isn't obstruction of justice?
The man should be facing impeachment right now on that and a variety of other charges. The most amazing thing is that 35% of voters still buy his line of bullshit, still a historic low for a *president* this early in his first term.
He is without a doubt the worst president in American history already and it isn't going to be getting better.
Hes crazy "outside the realm of normal behavior" as Comey is said to have confided to friends following his tweets about bugging trump tower. That should be enough to get him removed. He has the nuclear codes for chrissakes.Its not a joke anymore.

The truth is far stranger than fiction. And yes RD I agree with very little policy wise with democrats but I'm voting a straight ticket democrat in 18 hoping they can get the votes to impeach this son of a b****. Its obvious the majority of republicans are a bunch of moral eunuchs. There are things more important than tax rates, economic growth, the stock market etc. Its about threatening our very democracy and survival as long as this utter incompetent insane fraud is disgracing the nation.
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Re: President Trump

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri May 12, 2017 2:56 pm

Can someone explain why firing an FBI director who is investigating you after he rebuffed your pressure to be "loyal" and give you a preview of his sworn testimony isn't obstruction of justice?


Nope. I believe it is. Problem is that his party has a super majority right now and there just are not enough votes in congress to bring about impeachment proceedings. Hopefully that particular dynamic will only last until the 2018 mid term elections.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Largent80 » Fri May 12, 2017 3:42 pm

It's funny that the democratic mascot is a jackass, when the biggest jackass of all time is Trump, a republican president.

Sad Times, WTF happened America? how did this happen?

Steven Colbert is a GOD, every night he hammers this piece of s***. I love it.

Lets all hope the POS get's impeached.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Fri May 12, 2017 7:05 pm

Sad to say I could see this coming 50 miles away. Trump just kept changing his positions (LYING!!!) all during the primaries and then the general campaign yet he grew more and more popular. Dang! There is STILL 40% of the electorate who believe his B.S.

One thing, if you impeach Trump Pence has to be impeached too. Pence has known that Trump was lying all along and yet has gone right along with it.

Oh, Jeff Sessions is a complete P.O.S. and has always been a disgrace to the law profession.

Two other A-Moral punks that needed to be indicted as traitors are Paul Ryan and Mitch "the b****" McConnell. These two pukes have also gone right along with Trump's treason and has been taking advantage of Trump's high crimes and mistdemenors to try and push through their very anti-American version of health care. They will take a trillion (yes, with a "T") dollars from Medic-Aid and then use that Trillion dollars to give the top 1% that same trillion dollars as tax cuts for the wealthy.

WOW, Robin Hood in reverse, take from the poor and give to the rich. Medic-Aid doesn't just help the poorest of the poor they help most of our Senior Citizens who live in either nursing homes and/or assisted living homes.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Largent80 » Sat May 13, 2017 3:32 am

Excellent post 4 Ever.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Sat May 13, 2017 9:31 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Nope. I believe it is. Problem is that his party has a super majority right now and there just are not enough votes in congress to bring about impeachment proceedings. Hopefully that particular dynamic will only last until the 2018 mid term elections.


That dynamic is impossible to change in 2018. It requires a simple vote in the House to bring an impeachment charge to the Senate (such as happened with Clinton), which is possible if they pick up 30 something seats, but a 2/3 majority in the Senate to remove them from office. The number simply aren't there in the Senate in 2018 for the D's to get anywhere near the 2/3 majority required for a removal from office vote as the R's only have 9 seats up for re-election, with 3 of those 9 winning their last election by 65+%, so the best they could possibly do by winning an extremely unlikely 9 R seats in the mid term elections would be 59%, plus a couple of independents if they win their elections. If Trump is to get impeached and removed from office within the next 4 years, it's going to require some significant Republican support.

The D's blew their big opportunity to gain ground in the Senate in 2016, which was the dirty little secret of the 2016 campaign. It wasn't just the POTUS election that they bungled, it was in multiple races across the country.

Unless Trump does something really outrageous that causes him to lose some significant support within his party, and firing the FBI director, unless he did so illegally, isn't going to cause that kind of a shift, we're stuck with him for the next 3.5 years.
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Re: President Trump

Postby NorthHawk » Sat May 13, 2017 10:59 am

The Republicans aren't politically stupid in most cases, and I would think that they have the knives at the ready should the political cost become too large.

Not only are there the election and hacking probes, but trade agreements are on the table.
Mexico has said they are already looking at other sources for corn which they now get almost solely from the US and if they shut the door on that a lot of farmers would get hit hard. And as we know, farmers are influential politically.
As well, 9 million American jobs rely on trade with Canada - and 35 states has Canada as it's largest trading partner, so if that trade is impacted by 11%, a million jobs could be lost.

These couple of things enter into the political formula of pressures so if at any point they think it's no longer a benefit for Trump to be in the White House, attitudes and votes could change.
There are already some moderate Republicans who aren't totally on board with him, so some votes might be swayed easier than others.

Odds are it will be 3.5 years, but with this presidency, who knows what catalyst will hit the fire.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Sat May 13, 2017 2:31 pm

NorthHawk wrote:The Republicans aren't politically stupid in most cases, and I would think that they have the knives at the ready should the political cost become too large.

Not only are there the election and hacking probes, but trade agreements are on the table.
Mexico has said they are already looking at other sources for corn which they now get almost solely from the US and if they shut the door on that a lot of farmers would get hit hard. And as we know, farmers are influential politically.
As well, 9 million American jobs rely on trade with Canada - and 35 states has Canada as it's largest trading partner, so if that trade is impacted by 11%, a million jobs could be lost.

These couple of things enter into the political formula of pressures so if at any point they think it's no longer a benefit for Trump to be in the White House, attitudes and votes could change.
There are already some moderate Republicans who aren't totally on board with him, so some votes might be swayed easier than others.

Odds are it will be 3.5 years, but with this presidency, who knows what catalyst will hit the fire.


Agreed. But a firing of the director of the FBI, unless it's later to be revealed as part of a wider cover-up or association with the Russian connection, isn't that catalyst.
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Re: President Trump

Postby NorthHawk » Sat May 13, 2017 3:51 pm

Perhaps not. I think it will come about with some of Trumps business relationships which fits into why he won't release his tax returns, but it could be an accumulation of things which brings it to a head when voter polls show he's a drag on the party and put in doubt re-election bids.
But time will tell how it all unfolds.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Old but Slow » Sun May 14, 2017 1:14 am

Politics is a touchy subject, and I avoid discussion unless I am in a face to face situation, where clarifications and differences can be moderated, as I think that most of us want the system to work better. But, it is difficult not to respond to this situation. Our president has no regard for this country in respect to its history, its precedents, or its character. He is concerned with his greed, first and foremost, and has no concern for others.

He is unpredictable, which I consider dangerous, he is explosive emotionally, which I consider dangerous, and he is vindictive, which I consider dangerous. Besides that, he seems to be basically ignorant.

Hopefully, his bizarre actions will eventually result in impeachment, but then we are faced with Mr Chosen by God to show the way to righteousness, in his place.

This country is on the verge of disaster. Much of the power structure, the big money, does not like the difficulty of dealing with the vagaries of a democratic government, dictators are easier to deal with, as they can make an agreement with fiat, not depending on the approval of a legislature. Feed the masses with a palatable dialogue, and make the highway clear for corporations to make hay. Our history has shown our consistent support of dictators over elected officials, and we have actively supported rebel forces against elected governments because we, publicly, fear communistic leanings, but really, we are trying to maintain control.

I grew up thinking that the USA wore the white hats. The hats seem darker to me lately.
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Re: President Trump

Postby NorthHawk » Sun May 14, 2017 7:05 am

I think it's a natural human condition to gravitate towards a strong leader.
If we look around the world, many societies crave that and western democracies are no different other than the scope of the actions by their leader and weak leaders are quickly replaced.
It seems the Constitution might be in for a test of strength in the next few years as Trump apparently wants to rule as opposed to govern. His attacks on the judiciary and media which are designed to restrain
excesses shows his lack of understanding of the system or maybe his lack of caring for its structure.
It's a little ironic that the Republicans for years railed about Obama acting like a King and now their own man is acting even more so.

I think that eventually the pressures from voters on the Republican members of Congress will set up a situation where one more bad move by Trump will mean a real shift in support.
Those pressures have begun, but when or what causes it to reach critical mass is one question and will it be before the next Presidential election is another.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Sun May 14, 2017 9:00 am

At a certain point Trumps disastrous ratings under 40% will begin to make it clear to republicans that they are facing a midterm shellacking of biblical proportions for defending the indefensible behavior of this carpetbagging self aggrandizing crook.
That is when the dominoes fall. It may already be too late for the congressional and Senate Republicans to recover as they are being shelled in generic polling already.

I think Trump may have Fd with the wrong guy and organization when he took on Comey. Apparently Comey will only testify in open session which makes it clear payback is going to be a mofo. As only 29% of americans support the decision to remove Comey most will be tuning in to watch that. This thing could spiral out of control for Trump rather quickly. The leaks from the various government agencies have become a flood already.If you are going to P off everyone you better damn well be competent and produce. Well.....................................
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Sun May 14, 2017 9:12 am

NorthHawk wrote:Perhaps not. I think it will come about with some of Trumps business relationships which fits into why he won't release his tax returns, but it could be an accumulation of things which brings it to a head when voter polls show he's a drag on the party and put in doubt re-election bids.
But time will tell how it all unfolds.


A simple conflict of interest with a few business dealings isn't going to do the trick. Multi billion dollar people like Trump have all sorts of business relationships that they're not even conscious of, many that could prove quite embarrassing but still legal. There would have to be some type of provable collusion between Trump and the Russians, and that type of information can't be gleaned from a simple tax return.

Secondly, Trump's tax returns have to be legal, or else he would have faced an audit. With the US government being dominated by liberals...govt. employees vote D at a rate that exceeds 80%...you can bet your last nickel that there's been a number of people in the IRS that have gone over his returns with a fine toothed comb the minute he announced his candidacy. Besides, I seriously doubt that there's anything in there that would have changed anyone's mind about him. His refusing to release his tax returns is the very least of my problems with him.

With regard to a multi billionaire being the POTUS, I'll never forget a response given by Nelson Rockefeller during the immediate aftermath of Watergate when Ford nominated him as the Veep following Nixon's resignation. During his confirmation hearing, someone asked him what his thoughts were about the possibility of being a heart beat away from the most powerful position on the planet and having come from one of the richest families on the planet. Rocky's response was something like "well, if someone wants to try to bribe me, it's going to take one helluva lot of money."
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Sun May 14, 2017 9:39 am

Hawktawk wrote:At a certain point Trumps disastrous ratings under 40% will begin to make it clear to republicans that they are facing a midterm shellacking of biblical proportions for defending the indefensible behavior of this carpetbagging self aggrandizing crook.
That is when the dominoes fall. It may already be too late for the congressional and Senate Republicans to recover as they are being shelled in generic polling already.

I think Trump may have Fd with the wrong guy and organization when he took on Comey. Apparently Comey will only testify in open session which makes it clear payback is going to be a mofo. As only 29% of americans support the decision to remove Comey most will be tuning in to watch that. This thing could spiral out of control for Trump rather quickly. The leaks from the various government agencies have become a flood already.If you are going to P off everyone you better damn well be competent and produce. Well.....................................


A 40% approval rating is nothing. George W. Bush once had a 28% approval rating, and Harry Truman had the all time low of 22%. Trump has a long ways to go.

This is not the British system in which if their Prime Minister falls out of favor with other pols that they can simply "take him to the country" and force a removal vote. Trump has to have committed a crime. The Constitution is very clear on the issue of impeachment, specifically calls out two crimes, treason and bribery, and gives a clear indication that it has to be a serious charge in order to qualify as impeachment material (the charge against Clinton was perjury, the charge against Nixon was obstruction of justice). There's too many strict constitutionalists in the Senate and House to agree to an impeachment charge if there isn't some type of crime associated with it. Face it, we stuck with the SOB.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Mon May 15, 2017 12:36 pm

A 36% approval rating 130 days into a first term is absolutely unprecedented. It doesn't take a genius to see which way its headed in the future anyway with weeks like last one. This guy could be at 9% in a year. Even stalwarts like Ann Coulter and Matt Drudge and rush Limbaugh are grumbling and expressing alarm.

As for a crime having being committed I believe there are already at least 2 and I am not alone including numerous members of the congress and respected legal scholars. Granted not many have the word R next to their name yet. Watergate didn't either for longer than this investigation so far. But it could change with one bombshell.

The first crime is a clear and continuing violation of the emoluments clause,(ie) using the power of the office to enrich himself and his entire family. It is blatant and remorseless and with no attempt to even provide a fig leaf of legitimacy.


The second and most serious is obstruction of justice/witness intimidation. As a president whose administration has already been named as a subject of a criminal investigation he CAN NOT ask the director of the FBI for loyalty or a preview of his sworn testimony. He CAN NOT offer a quid pro quo of continued employment for agreeing to his conditions. He CAN NOT subsequently fire said individual and offer a completely fraudulent account of why he was dismissed for 36 hours then turn around and admit to a reporter on national television that he was thinking about the phony made up Russia investigation when he decided to fire him. Particularly if it is true that the director had asked for more funds to expand the investigation shortly beforehand.
And he cannot engage in a twitter war warning Comey about possible tape recordings in an attempt to silence him.

The tape issue is what may undo trump. After his tweet storm the WH has refused to say any more at all about the issue. Taping isn't illegal for a president although it is considered paranoid and Nixon was the last guy to have been known to do it. It wound up being Nixon's undoing.

Comey has made it known he HOPES THERE ARE recordings of his meetings with Trump.
If Trump is captured on tape attempting to influence Comey regarding the investigation or gain information about it he's toast.
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Re: President Trump

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon May 15, 2017 6:18 pm

OK Dog, defend this:

"Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador"

Reads the headline, then the story goes on to describe a POTUS that hasn't a clue of the importance some of the information he's dealing with:

“I get great intel. I have people brief me on great intel every day,” the president said, according to an official with knowledge of the exchange.


... he brags like a high school kid just dying to impress to his Russian buddies. Sharing with them code word intel we got from an ally that we do not even have permission to share with other allies!

He has GOT to be close (if not there already) to losing support even of his own party. there's no way he can last a full term IMO.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... f545ec5926
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 16, 2017 4:27 am

c_hawkbob wrote:OK Dog, defend this:

"Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian foreign minister and ambassador"

He has GOT to be close (if not there already) to losing support even of his own party. there's no way he can last a full term IMO.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/na ... f545ec5926


From your own article:

For almost anyone in government, discussing such matters with an adversary would be illegal. As president, Trump has broad authority to declassify government secrets, making it unlikely that his disclosures broke the law.


Doesn't sound like a high crime or misdemeanor to me.

Republicans will abandon him if and only if there's some undeniable charge that links Trump personally to an impeachable offense. IMO the subject with the best chance of bearing fruit is his ties with the Russians, if his firing of Comey is related to an attempt to conceal personally damaging information, and can result in some sort of obstruction of justice, abuse of power, treason, et al charge that will stand up to intense scrutiny under months long investigations. I don't think we're anywhere near that threshold.
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Re: President Trump

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue May 16, 2017 6:10 am

Republicans will abandon him if and only if there's some undeniable charge that links Trump personally to an impeachable offense.


Disagree.

I didn't call this an impeachable offense in and of itself (and I don't think it needs to be an impeachable offense to still be a huge blow to our nation's security). What I'm saying is that there is a tipping point at which enough Repubs will abandon him in an effort to preserve their own political skins that it won't take a Dem majority to commence proceedings and that we are rapidly nearing that point.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 16, 2017 9:55 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Disagree.

I didn't call this an impeachable offense in and of itself (and I don't think it needs to be an impeachable offense to still be a huge blow to our nation's security). What I'm saying is that there is a tipping point at which enough Repubs will abandon him in an effort to preserve their own political skins that it won't take a Dem majority to commence proceedings and that we are rapidly nearing that point.


My previous remarks were about impeachment and removal from office, so I assumed that when you directed an article at me that you were responding to those remarks by suggesting that Trump may have committed an impeachable offense.

I does sound like Trump may have done some major damage to national security with his latest gaff, and believe me, I'd like nothing better than to see him removed from office. But I don't think that we're as close to the tipping point of losing Republican support as you feel we are. It's going to take about 1/3 of his fellow R's to break ranks and join the Dems AND an impeachable offense in order for any serious impeachment proceedings to get started, and I don't see that kind of erosion in his base support, at least not yet. He's going to have to lose a good chunk of his core, ie those that voted for him, like Nixon did and Clinton didn't, and that's clearly not happening yet:

Despite Trump's low approval numbers, the poll showed him retaining support among his base, with 96% of people who said they voted for him saying they would do so again.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/23/politics/ ... index.html

The article is from 3 weeks ago and doesn't reflect the latest information, but it does show how deep Trump's support runs.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Tue May 16, 2017 10:14 am

Trumps latest F up may not be illegal but it may violate his oath of office, an impeachable offense(another).

48 percent of North Carolina voters favor impeachment now as opposed to 41 against. Most recent polls show 12 % of TRUMP VOTERS believe impeachment may be necessary.

Bob Corker who has been a supporter from day one says the WH is in a "downward spiral". Trey Gowdy, an early supporter of Trump has withdrawn his name from consideration for FBI director.These are heavyweights. Evenm McConnel has expressed extreme displeasure with Trumps careening from crisis to crisis completely self inflicted.

NSA chief McMaster, probably the most respected member of his cabinet came out with a forceful denial/non denial yesterday about the leak to Russia only to have Trump destroy his narrative in a tweet storm this morning.
Even Kellyanne Conway has reportedly admitted feeling dirty "need to take a shower,ugh" after defending this steaming pile of excrement.One can imaging how Spicer must feel.
How anyone can get a up with a straight face and lie for this guy is really indicative of how morally bankrupt the team around him and most republican congressmen are.

I think barring a major reboot and Trump going on some type of bipolar medicine this thing doesn't last a year longer.The sooner the better. Keep melting down idiot, please.That isn't rooting against America but for it. Trump is totally incompetent and a danger to the world and hes only getting worse daily.
The fear is how much more damage will be done to our national standing and security in the meantime.
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Re: President Trump

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 16, 2017 10:25 am

Most elections are won by the swing vote. Those with no affiliation or those that don't often vote and that could be a huge factor if the internal polling shows the incumbent Republicans are losing a lot of support from those who voted for them in the previous election. In some areas those who simply voted for change could make a difference in the races if they are alarmed by what they see and with more interest of those who didn't bother to vote added in, they could lose some key seats and maybe their majority in 2 years. There has been a big pendulum swing to the right the last couple of elections, but don't think it's permanent as voters with free will tend to be fickle excepting those hard core on all sides. I don't believe that moderate Republicans are dead, they just need something to focus on to reclaim their party. All it takes is the culmination of issues or large enough gaffe to get the right number to start it all rolling.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 16, 2017 12:41 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Trumps latest F up may not be illegal but it may violate his oath of office, an impeachable offense(another).

48 percent of North Carolina voters favor impeachment now as opposed to 41 against. Most recent polls show 12 % of TRUMP VOTERS believe impeachment may be necessary.

Bob Corker who has been a supporter from day one says the WH is in a "downward spiral". Trey Gowdy, an early supporter of Trump has withdrawn his name from consideration for FBI director.These are heavyweights. Evenm McConnel has expressed extreme displeasure with Trumps careening from crisis to crisis completely self inflicted.

NSA chief McMaster, probably the most respected member of his cabinet came out with a forceful denial/non denial yesterday about the leak to Russia only to have Trump destroy his narrative in a tweet storm this morning.
Even Kellyanne Conway has reportedly admitted feeling dirty "need to take a shower,ugh" after defending this steaming pile of excrement.One can imaging how Spicer must feel.
How anyone can get a up with a straight face and lie for this guy is really indicative of how morally bankrupt the team around him and most republican congressmen are.

I think barring a major reboot and Trump going on some type of bipolar medicine this thing doesn't last a year longer.The sooner the better. Keep melting down idiot, please.That isn't rooting against America but for it. Trump is totally incompetent and a danger to the world and hes only getting worse daily.
The fear is how much more damage will be done to our national standing and security in the meantime.


Your info (12% of Trump voters want impeachment) doesn't jive with what I posted, which is that 96% of Trump voters would vote for him again, so let's start referencing our information so we can see where the differences are. As a matter of fact, in the link I provided above, Trump would win the popular vote (43% to 40%) if the election were held today. It's hard for me to believe your 12% number if it's true that he's actually gained in popularity over his opponent from the last election.

There is no Constitutionally prescribed remedy for a violation of the oath of office. The only impeachable offenses noted in the Constitution are treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors (with misdemeanors holding a different meaning than it does today).
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Re: President Trump

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue May 16, 2017 1:05 pm

There is no Constitutionally prescribed remedy for a violation of the oath of office. The only impeachable offenses noted in the Constitution are treason, bribery, and other high crimes and misdemeanors (with misdemeanors holding a different meaning than it does today).


Maybe not but it's been used as such. Impeachment proceedings for Andrew Jackson, Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton all reference breach or failure to live up to (or similar wording) the Oath of Office quite prominently.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 16, 2017 2:50 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Maybe not but it's been used as such. Impeachment proceedings for Andrew Jackson, Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton all reference breach or failure to live up to (or similar wording) the Oath of Office quite prominently.


That's true, but violation of an oath of office is tossed in to justify the main charge...With Nixon, the charges approved as articles of impeachment were obstruction of justice, abuse of power, and contempt of Congress, with Clinton it was perjury to a grand jury and obstruction of justice (in both cases, there were other charges that were not approved). Violating their oaths of office was thrown in for effect during the proceedings.

BTW Andrew Jackson was never impeached. Perhaps you were thinking of Andrew Johnson.
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Re: President Trump

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue May 16, 2017 3:50 pm

BTW Andrew Jackson was never impeached. Perhaps you were thinking of Andrew Johnson


Yes of course.

As for actual criminal actions, obstruction of justice fits the bill and just this afternoon there's word of a Comey memo indicating that POTUS may have ask him to end the investigation into Flynn.

More fuel to the fire.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 16, 2017 10:42 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:As for actual criminal actions, obstruction of justice fits the bill and just this afternoon there's word of a Comey memo indicating that POTUS may have ask him to end the investigation into Flynn.

More fuel to the fire.


If Comey was fired for that, then there'd be justification for either an obstruction of justice or abuse of power charge. But they're going to have to come up with something than a memo from Comey.

But there still isn't very much erosion of Trump's base, which is going to be a prerequisite for him losing Republican support. I mean, how do you explain the recent poll that Trump would have beaten Clinton by several percentage points had the election been held today, or that 96% of those that voted for Trump would do so again? Heck, Hillary's voters have more second thoughts about having voted for her than Trump's do about having voted for him. They're going to have to come up with a real bombshell to move his base.
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Re: President Trump

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed May 17, 2017 7:36 am

I'm suspect your perception may be as behind the curve as your link, a LOT has happened the last couple weeks.

Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) said at an International Republican Institute dinner on Tuesday night that controversies in the Trump administration had grown to “Watergate size and scale,” according to reports.

Sen. Patrick J. Toomey (R-Pa.) wants a Democrat to be nominated to lead the FBI because “changes are needed at the White House,”

Sen. Ben Sasse (R-Neb.) said Wednesday morning that “there’s a lot here that’s really scary.”

... and that's just a sampling.

There is a great deal of erosion to POTUS's base you don't seem to be acknowledging.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Wed May 17, 2017 9:09 am

c_hawkbob wrote:I'm suspect your perception may be as behind the curve as your link, a LOT has happened the last couple weeks. There is a great deal of erosion to POTUS's base you don't seem to be acknowledging.


Those are all quotes from politicians, not Trump's base. We'll have to wait until we see some similar polls to the ones taken a couple of weeks ago so we can see just how much erosion, if any, has taken place in Trump's base. There's still no factual proof of his base beginning to move away from him. But I will agree that the Republican pols are to the point to where if they do sense Trump's base beginning to waiver, that they're ready to move away from him as well.

One of the things that we have to acknowledge is that unlike Democrats, Trump's supporters do not trust the media to give a fair and unbiased account of events, and as such, they are going to need undeniable, cold hard facts in order to move away from their boy.
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Re: President Trump

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed May 17, 2017 9:26 am

What good is his voting base to him now? Republicans in congress are absolutely the base of support he needs now and they are ones beginning to turn away from him. His voters will do him little good if he fails to reach the next election.
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Re: President Trump

Postby NorthHawk » Wed May 17, 2017 10:38 am

I read a comment from one Republican this morning who suggested the new FBI chief should be a Democrat.
It sounds like an olive branch to help bring that chamber together and bipartisanship is needed now to get an honest review of the allegations.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Wed May 17, 2017 1:02 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:What good is his voting base to him now? Republicans in congress are absolutely the base of support he needs now and they are ones beginning to turn away from him. His voters will do him little good if he fails to reach the next election.


His voting base is what keeps the Republican politicians at bay. Trump voters are the same voters they need to keep their butts in office.

What ran Richard Nixon out of town wasn't the Democrats, who had a majority in both houses, it was that the Republicans turned on him because he had lost his base. Starting with the Saturday Night Massacre, he began losing his base to a point where polls showed that McGovern, his opponent that he beat in a landslide 18 months earlier, would have won the election had it been held in the spring of '74. It's going to take that kind of erosion for any impeachment movement to bear fruit.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Thu May 18, 2017 4:58 am

Special counselor. BINGO.Lets see Spicer and Kellyanne spin this one.

The leaks are a flood and more amazing revelations daily such as Flynn's associates leaking that he had informed the WH on Jan 5 he was under investigation BEFORE being appointed NSA chief. This destroys not only the last shreds of Trumps credibility but Pence is really looking like a flat out liar as well.WH staffers are dusting off resumes. The polls look even worse every day.
The SOB is going down and the sooner the better.
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Re: President Trump

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu May 18, 2017 5:42 am

Outstanding choice too. "Square Jaw Bob" Mueller is pure lawman, not a politician.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Thu May 18, 2017 9:25 am

Trump may be ignorant of our most basic rules of "civics" , but he also demonstrates the utmost CONTEMPT for our two party political system.

Israel showed a great disservice by saying "it is alright that Pres. Trump shared our intel with Russia even though we didn't give our permission ahead of time as protocol called for. The only reason Israel said this is because their leader hated Obama and "loves" trump. But, by "kissing" up to Trump and not chastising him for divulging their top secret intel they sent a message to Trump that he can divulge top secret intel to ANYBODY he feels a whim to share it with. He may have the authority to declassify anything anytime he wants to but that doesn't mean that he SHOULD be careless with it, as he has obviously did.

People who vote for the GOP are going to have to make a choice, are they going so vote for and support TRAITORS or are they going to support the Constitution of the United States.

The fact that people like Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan continue to support the Administration to the point of colluding with their cover up by ignoring all of the crimes Trump and his people have been piling up. Jared Kushner "selling" Visas" to Chinese nationals to raise money for his construction projects is just the tip of the ice berg.

How about Ivanka Trump chairing meetings with congress persons in place of her father??? I didn't vote for his daughter, NO ONE DID!

But, Trump supporters say that they "don't care" if he illegally "makes money" off of his being POTUS. What can possibly be said to such people??? Shame! Shame!! Shame!!! On all who appear to not only willing for this terrible admin. to continue they appear to be willing to allow it to break and/or ignore and and all laws designed to reign in a wannabe dictator. They even have clamored for a "Putin-like" strongman and now Trump fills their bill. Everyone who is willing to have a "strongman" like Trump to be our dictator then then are TRAITORS and they need to be treated as such, treated the way we USED to treat traitors before the Ethel and Julius Greenberg executions. Tar and feather the supporters of treason and execute those who are convicted of perpetrating it.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Thu May 18, 2017 9:37 am

The problem is Trump's base, and we're not talking about some fringe element of the electorate, we're talking about 60-70% of the people that voted for him, or about 35% or so of the voting population and a major component of the constituents that put the R pols that could decide his fate in office. If Trump's base were of such a disposition to vote for him in the first place, despite his obvious lunatic-like behavior during his campaign, then this sort of behavior won't bother them. They mistrust the mainstream media to give a fair accounting of events, so it's going to take some undeniable facts to bring them to their senses. So far, I see no evidence of any erosion to his base. Until that base starts to show some signs of erosion, the R politicians aren't going to aggressively pursue impeachment.

I do think the time has come for Congress to get involved and start looking into some of these accusations. Even if I were a Trump supporter, I'd want some sort of independent commission to take an objective look at this stuff, in particular, the Russian involvement in the campaign. Perhaps then they can find some undeniable facts and present it in an unbiased, unfiltered way so as to convince his base of what the rest of us could see over a year ago during the campaign, ie that this guy is unfit to serve as POTUS.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Thu May 18, 2017 11:44 am

Rd trump stands at about 36 percent. He pulled about 47 percent of the vote in November.
That is about 11% of his base that has said bye bye already.
Your poll numbers are not up to date. Now it is reported that he is whining about his foreign trip. He says it's too long. He doesn't like not sleeping in his own bed. He's blowing off attempts to brief him on the complexities of the various foreign policy situations and leaders.
All he wants to do is golf, tweet stupid stuff and watch cable news.

The guy is an incompetent , stupid person. He can't even spell. He can't say he is wrong about anything . He's a cancer on America. He needs to go and I think it will happen, possibly before mueller wraps up his investigation, especially with acts of dereliction of duty on a daily and sometimes hourly basis. Republicans may be hypocrites but they aren't stupid or politically suicidal.

Frankly I wish he and chris Cornell could swap places I detest this evil pos that badly.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Thu May 18, 2017 12:46 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Rd trump stands at about 36 percent. He pulled about 47 percent of the vote in November.
That is about 11% of his base that has said bye bye already.
Your poll numbers are not up to date. Now it is reported that he is whining about his foreign trip. He says it's too long. He doesn't like not sleeping in his own bed. He's blowing off attempts to brief him on the complexities of the various foreign policy situations and leaders.
All he wants to do is golf, tweet stupid stuff and watch cable news.

The guy is an incompetent , stupid person. He can't even spell. He can't say he is wrong about anything . He's a cancer on America. He needs to go and I think it will happen, possibly before mueller wraps up his investigation, especially with acts of dereliction of duty on a daily and sometimes hourly basis. Republicans may be hypocrites but they aren't stupid or politically suicidal.

Frankly I wish he and chris Cornell could swap places I detest this evil pos that badly.


You're getting ahead of yourself. Trump's current weekly job approval rating stands at 42%:

http://www.ajc.com/news/national-govt-- ... fJMl4n5yN/

Although 42% isn't horrible....earlier I indicated earlier that Harry Truman once had a 22% approval rating, and it's still a long ways from getting into impeachment territory...what's significant is that historically newly elected presidents enjoy a honeymoon with voters for their first 3-6 months and Trump has had the opposite experience, so yes, there's no denying that he's in trouble. I also read where Trump's advisors are encouraging him to hire an outside lawyer to defend him deal with alleged Russian ties with his campaign, another indication that the White House is on the defensive.

So we'll see. I still say that it's going to require a real bombshell revelation, like Trump having prior knowledge during the campaign that the Russians were trying to help him win by illegally sabotaging his opponent, or the equivalent of a Saturday Night Massacre reaction by Trump, to cause him to start losing his base.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Fri May 19, 2017 5:29 pm

At least Benedict Arnold was a Great American Hero BEFORE he turned in to our nation's worst traitor, well, until Donald J. Trump ran for POTUS.

Well done Donnie! Arnold can now rest in peace knowing he has been supplanted as our nations worst traitor, WELL DONE!!!
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Re: President Trump

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri May 19, 2017 10:04 pm

He says 36%, you say 42% (as if that's significantly better) ... according to Reuters, he's closer. By the latest poll he's at 38% approval to 56% disapproval:

In the Trump White House, it’s getting lonely at the top.

President Donald Trump’s fellow Republicans in Congress are showing signs of going their own way, both on politics and policy, determined to salvage what they can of their agenda on healthcare and tax reform in the wake of one of the most difficult weeks of any American presidency.

At the same time, Trump's failure to fill senior roles at federal agencies means he does not have a cadre of loyalists who can help rein in a bureaucracy that many in Trump’s orbit believe are out to leak information intended to damage the president. That has worsened the isolation of the White House in a city that relies on friends and allies to shake off a crisis.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... li=BBnb7Kz
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Re: President Trump

Postby Old but Slow » Sat May 20, 2017 2:22 am

Been looking like a dumpster fire for a while now, but it has potential to turn into a real conflagration. We all know that government works with a tempo in tune with continental drift, so we can expect that we will be stuck with no real changes for some time. May you live in interesting times is an apt aphorism for today, and I, for one, find these times very interesting, as well as terrifying.

In my view, this is corporatism on parade. Their boy is in charge, and all obstacles are in jeopardy. Good ol' boy Reagan said in his distinctive way that government was the problem, but he did not recognize the real risk of corporations out of control. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, and while it is not by intent, it is by neglect. Neglect of how the system of commerce really works, and a belief that the financial benefits filter down from the top.

What is mystifying to me is that the reaction to most of it has been so benign. Any past prexy I can think of would have been savaged if they had done half of what Donald has done, but (crickets). If Hillary was in this situation, the response would have been over the top.

We are watching, in real time, a performance by possibly the best con man of all time taking us for a ride, and we seem to have little to say about it. And if you want to argue that he is not the best, who can you put forward who made himself POTUS?

Anybody up for an Obama vs Trump comparison?
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