Suicide

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Suicide

Postby Largent80 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:21 pm

The death of Tyler Helinski got me to revisit this topic.

After losing two of my favorite vocalists to suicide last year in Chris Cornell and Chester Bennington I just want to bring up the topic since all of us probably know someone who has done this.

In almost all the cases their friends or relatives or co-workers said how much a surprise it was when it happened.

Part of that is that people usually don't seek help for depression and other triggers. Even though there is more help available now than ever before.

We all need to treat each other better, that's a good place to start for us that aren't depressed or suicidal.

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Re: Suicide

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:32 pm

I've known a few friends, acquaintances, and a family member that committed suicide. I don't personally think three is much help you can give unless you can literally be by their side 24/7 dealing with their mental issues. Few, if any, can do that while dealing with all the issues with their life. Most of the time the suicide comes out of the blue in a moment of solitude the person decides to end it in a fashion they have planned or with an immediate means available. Some minds are broken and fixing them is impossible. Mostly you try to keep the person occupied on other activities.

Depression often makes no sense. The person has no reason to be depressed or continually depressed. It's a chemical problem in the brain that causes them to react with extreme sadness and despair that a healthy brain finds ways to ameliorate or recover from. Hopefully at some point our understanding and ability to fix brains will improve where we can fix these chemical problems by means other than permanent medication that is more like applying a band-aid to an wound.
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Re: Suicide

Postby Largent80 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:11 pm

My wife is a therapist so I get some info regarding this. These times are especially hard as there is social media and a lot of pressure gets put on people.

Bullying is at an all time high, even cyber bullying. And sometimes immense pressure to perform and a feeling of inadequacy leads to depression. People feel alone or singled out and are sometimes scared to reach out for help.

There are tons of reasons, but as I stated before a little love goes a long way. I always try every day to do something for someone else. It's not much but everything matters.
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Re: Suicide

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:10 pm

I imagine social media affects the younger generation more.
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Re: Suicide

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Sat Jan 20, 2018 7:00 am

A beloved member of our congregation took his own life on Christmas Day 2016. He left a loving wife, two small girls, one an infant only 6 months old. Life pressures over whelmed him and he didn't know how to "reach out". I had tried to talk to him a few times but he was aloof and stand offish. It sickened me when I realized that had been a way of pushing people away. I felt then as I feel now that I should have recognized that and not let him isolate. But others had reached out and had drawn him out getting him involved, he seemed to be enjoying himself. It was all a lie. I still don't understand all of the family dynamics, he was a very smart guy and a computer whiz yet was trying to eek out a living in the dying (in our state) lumberjack industry. Maybe he enjoyed those Axmen reality show, all I know he was getting very few hours, not enough to sustain his young family but he insisted on sticking with the "family business" though it is a dying business. He was so smart, almost nothing he couldn't do with electronics and/or computers. Yet, that was just a hobby, he didn't want to earn a living that way I don't know, to this day his action was very confusing.
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Re: Suicide

Postby RiverDog » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:42 am

Like everyone else, I've been touched by a number of suicides. I have mixed emotions: On one hand, I feel very badly for the victim as it has to be just a God awful position to be in to where you think that your only option is suicide. That kind of pain is something that I've never had to deal with, and thus cannot relate to. It's impossible for me to pass judgement on another person's actions when I have never been put into that position myself.

But on the other hand, choosing suicide as a way to deal with a problem or emotion is a very selfish act. With very few exceptions, everyone has loved ones and people that care about, and in many cases, depend on. I had a very good friend, my right hand man at work, that took his own life. His teenage son found him in the garage, hanging from a rafter. Just think of the nightmares that kid must be going through. If my friend hadn't been so selfish about his own problems (his wife had left him) and consider the impact of his life had on others around him, he would have never chosen that option. No matter how tough life can be, and especially when we have kids, we owe it to those that depend on us to be there for them.
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Re: Suicide

Postby Largent80 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:53 pm

The mental state of someone that does this isn't thinking about being selfish by offing themselves. They have reached the point of no return. The sad thing is that most of them hide it so well.

How shocked were you to hear of Robin Williams or Chris Cornell?

They all had good families, wealth and everything else except one thing that others don't have. That desire to see whatever it is, through.

Most cases it is severe depression with many reasons for it. Illness, expectations and demands a feeling of helplessness. Most do not seek help.

One of my best friends in the world put a shotgun in his mouth back in the 80's. There was no warning, no signs of anything different, and we we're close, talked every day.

I was devastated, I felt like part of it was my fault for not seeing or doing anything, which is the reason I say we should try to treat each other better and I'm a poster child for that because when I'm feeling down or ill/injured I lash out and that's not me.

Hug the ones you love and ask them if there is anything you can do for them. It makes people feel good.
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Re: Suicide

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:32 pm

I used to think suicide was selfish. Now I think it is a broken brain. Something happened in their mind that caused their ability to cope with negative emotions to break and they can't control the intense feelings of sadness, hopelessness, and despair. Those feelings overwhelm them until they choose to kill themselves. I don't think they have a great deal of control over it. If they had control over their emotional state, they wouldn't do it. I think many understand their responsibilities logically, but the emotional portion of their brain overrides all logic. We can't fix brains yet, so not much can be done for a broken mind until we learn the underlying chemistry that causes these breakdowns and how to fix it.

It's hard to live when feeling miserable, hopeless, and worthless all the time. If your mind doesn't have the capacity to change those feelings, it's going to wear you down until you don't want to feel alive any longer. That's the main thing I've gotten from suicidal people. They feel rotten inside nearly all the time. I can't imagine it myself. But if they feel that way, I can imagine it would be very hard to continue living.
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Re: Suicide

Postby RiverDog » Tue Jan 23, 2018 7:48 pm

Like so many other things, there is no one generic reason for suicides. I know for a fact that some suicidal tendencies are a result of the "broken mind" that ASF eluded to. There's even been medical evidence of such conditions.

But I also know for a fact that there are other suicides that are as a result of being selfish or not being willing to face life's challenges. I had a good friend and co worker that committed suicide because he was about to be arraigned on sexual abuse charges, charges that were later proven to be false (the accuser admitted she made it up).

I know of a suicide that happened when a man's wife was going to leave him. During an argument, he shot himself in front of both his wife and his kids.

It's not like other illnesses that have defined symptoms and perscribed cures.
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Re: Suicide

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue Jan 23, 2018 10:41 pm

RiverDog wrote:Like so many other things, there is no one generic reason for suicides. I know for a fact that some suicidal tendencies are a result of the "broken mind" that ASF eluded to. There's even been medical evidence of such conditions.

But I also know for a fact that there are other suicides that are as a result of being selfish or not being willing to face life's challenges. I had a good friend and co worker that committed suicide because he was about to be arraigned on sexual abuse charges, charges that were later proven to be false (the accuser admitted she made it up).

I know of a suicide that happened when a man's wife was going to leave him. During an argument, he shot himself in front of both his wife and his kids.

It's not like other illnesses that have defined symptoms and perscribed cures.


Both of those sound like broken minds to me. Lost minds not even thinking about what their actions will do to anyone including themselves. Just a momentary burst of madness that causes them to end themselves. Plenty of people have been accused of sexual abuse or argued with their wives that were going to leave them and not gone that far. When you go that far, your mind has something wrong with it to begin with and selfishness is not how I would characterize it.
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Re: Suicide

Postby Largent80 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:20 am

Here's an example of someone with a "broken brain" that fixed it.

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/400805/li ... kis-death/
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Re: Suicide

Postby RiverDog » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:59 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:Both of those sound like broken minds to me. Lost minds not even thinking about what their actions will do to anyone including themselves. Just a momentary burst of madness that causes them to end themselves. Plenty of people have been accused of sexual abuse or argued with their wives that were going to leave them and not gone that far. When you go that far, your mind has something wrong with it to begin with and selfishness is not how I would characterize it.


The one guy, the guy that was about to be arraigned, planned his suicide for weeks. He started selling off his valuables, quit taking care of his appearance, went and bought a gun, and 30 minutes before he was scheduled for arraignment, put it to his head and pulled the trigger.

Obviously something is wrong with a mind that considers suicide as an option, but the question is how much control or influence do we have over it. There's this part of me that won't allow me to excuse unacceptable or abnormal behavior by attributing it to some sort of uncontrollable mental deficiency. Jerry Sandusky's mind had to be "broken" for him to do what he did, and I'm not going to excuse it.
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Re: Suicide

Postby Largent80 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 10:08 am

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Re: Suicide

Postby Largent80 » Wed Jan 24, 2018 11:01 am

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Re: Suicide

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:39 pm

RiverDog wrote:The one guy, the guy that was about to be arraigned, planned his suicide for weeks. He started selling off his valuables, quit taking care of his appearance, went and bought a gun, and 30 minutes before he was scheduled for arraignment, put it to his head and pulled the trigger.

Obviously something is wrong with a mind that considers suicide as an option, but the question is how much control or influence do we have over it. There's this part of me that won't allow me to excuse unacceptable or abnormal behavior by attributing it to some sort of uncontrollable mental deficiency. Jerry Sandusky's mind had to be "broken" for him to do what he did, and I'm not going to excuse it.


You don't have to excuse it. You're exactly right. Nearly every mind that kills themselves is broken. You could plead insanity for nearly every one of them.

But you can't do anything about suicide. Once they're dead, whether anyone excuses it or not doesn't matter. By this time you should understand that my statements are more a matter of fact than personal opinions or viewpoints. Fact is that people that commit suicide have overridden the natural drive to survive that all living creatures have. Humans are one of the few living things that can override that primal drive to survive. Humans that override the desire to live generally have a broken mind that has given up for some reason that destroyed their mind. After they are dead, what is the point of not excusing the behavior? You hoping to end suicide that has been occurring for thousands of years? All you really do is shrug and hope some scientist or doctor or person figures out some way to fix the minds that are suicidal due to chemical problems and accept that no matter what we do some people are going to commit suicide. Nature of being human. No use heaping on with they are selfish or other statements. Why kick a corpse that obviously had serious problems while they were living and likely was suffering? It doesn't help anyone, including the people affected by their death.
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Re: Suicide

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:33 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:You don't have to excuse it. You're exactly right. Nearly every mind that kills themselves is broken. You could plead insanity for nearly every one of them.

But you can't do anything about suicide. Once they're dead, whether anyone excuses it or not doesn't matter. By this time you should understand that my statements are more a matter of fact than personal opinions or viewpoints. Fact is that people that commit suicide have overridden the natural drive to survive that all living creatures have. Humans are one of the few living things that can override that primal drive to survive. Humans that override the desire to live generally have a broken mind that has given up for some reason that destroyed their mind. After they are dead, what is the point of not excusing the behavior? You hoping to end suicide that has been occurring for thousands of years? All you really do is shrug and hope some scientist or doctor or person figures out some way to fix the minds that are suicidal due to chemical problems and accept that no matter what we do some people are going to commit suicide. Nature of being human. No use heaping on with they are selfish or other statements. Why kick a corpse that obviously had serious problems while they were living and likely was suffering? It doesn't help anyone, including the people affected by their death.


When I say excuse it, I don't mean it the same sense that one would excuse someone from getting a traffic ticket. I'm using the term to show that there's nonsensical reasons, such as not wanting to face up to a sexual harassment charge, and a more understandable reason, such as suicides involving those that have a terminal disease. Perhaps there's a better term....like rational/irrational?
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Re: Suicide

Postby Largent80 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:30 pm

Watch those videos. Those are from people directly associated with suicide.
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Re: Suicide

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:42 pm

RiverDog wrote:When I say excuse it, I don't mean it the same sense that one would excuse someone from getting a traffic ticket. I'm using the term to show that there's nonsensical reasons, such as not wanting to face up to a sexual harassment charge, and a more understandable reason, such as suicides involving those that have a terminal disease. Perhaps there's a better term....like rational/irrational?


Rational suicides due to cancer or similar diseases are rational. That is a better word. Medical science can extend life beyond where it should at this point. Sometimes you have to choose to shut it down and stop all the work to keep you alive when living is physical misery.
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Re: Suicide

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:36 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:Rational suicides due to cancer or similar diseases are rational. That is a better word. Medical science can extend life beyond where it should at this point. Sometimes you have to choose to shut it down and stop all the work to keep you alive when living is physical misery.


We're probably closer to agreeing than disagreeing. One of my "problems" is that I have an almost generic issue with people that avoid facing up to the consequences of their actions. Suicide in some situations seems to me to be an easy out, a selfish act. Yes, I agree that anyone that's screwed up enough to commit suicide has a "broken brain", to use your words, but nevertheless, it's still a weakness that a stronger minded individual can overcome. IMO mental strength is every bit as important to good health as physical strength.
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Re: Suicide

Postby Old but Slow » Fri Jan 26, 2018 1:00 am

My professional life was as a counselor, and I dealt with many depressed people, some who were thinking of the last option, but it was always a point of emphasis for us in the mental health centers I worked in. Fortunately, I had only one client who killed himself, and he was a heroin addict from a wealthy family, a Viet Nam vet with PTSD, and horribly depressed. Very tragic.

For myself, I am too curious about what will happen, whether in sports or politics, or the local gossip, to end things, except for never ending pain. Never liked pain, so that is the the one. Plus, I would hate to give up the chance to flip the flivver to CBob, RiverDog, and others.
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