The Capitol Takeover

[I-5]

What ever it takes within the law to silence the POS and his followers is the course I want to take.

Considering his favorite channel for spreading lies is Twitter and Facebook, the temporary ban (Facebook says 'indefinite ban') is a good start. Yes, he always has far right wing channels like Parler, but that has nowhere near the power and scope since only his Jonestown followers go there, and not all of them. Having Pence, McConnell, Graham, and a number of previous allies jump ship on his disingenuous campaign yesterday did a lot of damage to him, and the only reason he assured a smooth transition is because he's scared of being yanked out before Jan 20, so yes he's weakened. But he's still dangerous, because his army of hoodlums is still ready to cause more havoc. At least he can't use Twitter or Facebook to get to them, until he's kicked out of the WH.

[RiverDog]

Considering his favorite channel for spreading lies is Twitter and Facebook, the temporary ban (Facebook says 'indefinite ban') is a good start. Yes, he always has far right wing channels like Parler, but that has nowhere near the power and scope since only his Jonestown followers go there, and not all of them. Having Pence, McConnell, Graham, and a number of previous allies jump ship on his disingenuous campaign yesterday did a lot of damage to him, and the only reason he assured a smooth transition is because he's scared of being yanked out before Jan 20, so yes he's weakened. But he's still dangerous, because his army of hoodlums is still ready to cause more havoc. At least he can't use Twitter or Facebook to get to them, until he's kicked out of the WH.

Facebook and Instagram (owned by Facebook) have both banned him until Jan. 20th. Twitter has temporarily suspended him for 12 hours and will reinstate him provided he takes down some Tweets they determined were in violation of their policy. They said that they allow more flexibility to heads of state and other leaders of governments than they do the general public but that after Jan. 20th Trump would be subject to the same policy every other member is.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/trump ... d/1004630/

[c_hawkbob]

"If the Vice President and the cabinet do not act (on the 25th Amendment) then this Congress is prepared to go forward with impeachment proceeding"

No link, just watched her say it live.

[RiverDog]

"If the Vice President and the cabinet do not act (on the 25th Amendment) then this Congress is prepared to go forward with impeachment proceeding"

No link, just watched her say it live.

Pelosi said it.

There is no reason why they can't do both.

[c_hawkbob]

Yes, sorry for not attributing the quote, I thought I had.

[RiverDog]

There's a chance that Twitter may follow Facebook's lead and ban Trump for the remainder of his Presidency. If that happens, Trump will be significantly less of a threat to stir up more violence as I-5 has pointed out:

"We believe the risks of allowing the President to continue to use our service during this period are simply too great," Zuckerberg wrote in the post. "Therefore, we are extending the block we have placed on his Facebook and Instagram accounts indefinitely and for at least the next two weeks until the peaceful transition of power is complete."

Facebook's move now raises expectations for Twitter, known for being the president's preferred social media platform, to follow suit. Twitter has confirmed that Trump deleted several tweets in order to regain his tweeting privileges sometime on Thursday, though the company declined to say when precisely he would be able to tweet again.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... uxbndlbing

[Aseahawkfan]

Well, we're one charismatic and willing leader away from a revolution. I watched some of the commentary from these Trump supporters. They thought they were revolting. I hope that leader does not come around in my lifetime. Fortunately it wasn't Trump. The Trump Era is over. The last kick happened January 6th.

I don't see anyone with Trump's abilities replacing him. So this should die down.

[RiverDog]

Well, we're one charismatic and willing leader away from a revolution. I watched some of the commentary from these Trump supporters. They thought they were revolting. I hope that leader does not come around in my lifetime. Fortunately it wasn't Trump. The Trump Era is over. The last kick happened January 6th.

I don't see anyone with Trump's abilities replacing him. So this should die down.

If we were that close to revolution, I would have thought that there would have been many more riots and demonstrations yesterday and today. The only one I've seen was a few protesters breaking a gate at the Governor's mansion in Olympia and were gone in 30 minutes. This seems to me to have been a very isolated, one time event, albeit one that has left deep, irreparable scars that makes us look pretty hypocritical calling out countries like China and Venezuela.

We'll see what happens between now and the 20th.

[Aseahawkfan]

You're not going to fix the problems that the hard core Trump supporters have with the country anymore than you're going to fix the problems that hard core BLM has with policing. All I am saying is the same thing so many people have been telling us about BLM: We need to listen.

There were 74 million people, 47%, that voted for Trump...and that doesn't include people like me that voted for Biden not because they supported him or his policies, but only due to the sole fact that he wasn't Donald Trump. You can't just tell them "You lost the election, now sit down and STFU!" and expect everything to get back to normal.

I wish Mack would come back in here and throw in his two cents worth. I've met him in person, and he's an educated, rational person, a Gen X'er, that voted for Trump and gave a brief explanation why he voted the way he did. Perhaps he could contribute to a greater understanding for us regulars in this forum. I get the sense that he's a bit afraid to come in here and speak his peace after seeing how we...and I include myself in that...ran off Idahawkman and burrton, not only from this forum, but from the larger Shack.

I think that Biden might be up to the task of recognizing this reality of the divisions we face, or at least he's been saying the right things. We'll see.

While the media stokes the flames, nothing is going to change when the vast majority get their information off the news.

You watching the race baiting on CNN, MSNBC, and liberal news sites? They're finding pictures that don't tell the whole truth and painting it as though the police treated the Trump protesters kinder than the BLM protesters. Making it seem like tear gas wasn't used, guns weren't drawn, a protester shot, and that the police and national guard didn't come down on the Trump Supporters because they were white and supported Trump. Even though there is no evidence of this.

You and I both know the left media race baiting has been a huge problem for years. Right now there isn't even a discussion on the left when a police officer shoots a person of African descent. There is an automatic liberal media bias against the police painting them all as racist and part of the systemic racism of the nation. For all intents and purposes to the left wing putting on a police officer uniform is the same as putting on a KKK hood with of course the perfunctory "not all cops are bad but...."

None of the liberals on this board like c-bob or I5 and now Hawktawk will admit that the liberal media painting the cops as a bunch of racists part of a racist system got police officers killed by loons who bought into the whole "all cops are racist" narrative the liberal media blasts across the nation every time a police officer is engaged in this terrible situation. You wouldn't even think the cops ever shot anyone but people of African descent given the way the liberal media covers this using race-baiting stories, images, and the like. No accountability for doing so, just excuses from the mouths of liberals and a glossing over or minor coverage of police officers killed due to them inflaming the racial divide and painting police officers as racists.

But these same people will be quick to counter it isn't the same because that was real and this is fake. What do they mean that was real? Do they mean all police are racist is real? That the police are a racist organization that exists to enforce unspoken system racism? What do they mean? It's as irresponsible as what Trump did, gets more peopled killed, and creates a combative and divisive relationship between police officers and folk of African descent. But somehow it 's all ok.

So what are they going to fix? Both of these sides are entrenched. They will make excuses when bad things happen due to the way the media covers a story or gives a platform to the rhetoric. Neither of these sides is going to stop. They both think they're right. They're sure of it. It's why they do what they do and have been doing it for years.

The public dialogue needs to change on a lot of these issues. If it does not, then we may be headed for even more serious violence.

[Aseahawkfan]

If we were that close to revolution, I would have thought that there would have been many more riots and demonstrations yesterday and today. The only one I've seen was a few protesters breaking a gate at the Governor's mansion in Olympia and were gone in 30 minutes. This seems to me to have been a very isolated, one time event, albeit one that has left deep, irreparable scars that makes us look pretty hypocritical calling out countries like China and Venezuela.

We'll see what happens between now and the 20th.

The fact this many came without Trump even calling for a revolution believing they were part of a revolution is what indicates to me Americans are ripe for this call.

You must really not talk to Libertarians. I've been hearing revolution discussion since shortly after 2001. I remember a Libertarian guy I met at the job, a lawyer who disliked the police, discussing how they were building representation in the Republican Party because the Republican Party at least had some people who believe in the Constitution, whereas the Democratic Party believes the Constitution is a living document they can change when they feel like it meaning the Democrats think of the Constitution as toilet paper. He said they were trying to get elected to minor positions first, then continue to seat politicians up the ladder and in leadership positions in the Republican Party. Their plan was not a short-term plan, but a long-term one. They wanted to launch a revolution. He is the one that explained you only need maybe 5 to 10% of people to take up arms to revolt. He broke down how a group of 5 to 10% of Americans could conduct a guerilla revolutionary war in America to stop the destruction of the Constitutional Republic.

When I saw Trump elected, saw his platform, and it mirrored everything this guy was talking about 20 years ago. Trump was the first attempt by Libertarians to seat a president. Someone who touted the Constitution, claimed to want to follow it, and didn't want to hand the nation over to immigrants and foreign powers.

The Libertarians had seated a few politicians like Ted Cruz and some I can't even remember their names. I think Ron Paul was one of the early Libertarian Politicians that fomented the movement.

All I see when I look at this Trump movement is the hand of that Libertarian Movement within the Republican Party trying to push revolution. 20 years they've been pushing. Maybe you've ignored this movement and their goals, I don't know. I've listened to their rhetoric. Trump was put in power by that Libertarian movement that is tired of business as usual in Washington D.C. They showed up for him big in Washington D.C. on January 6th thinking they were starting a revolution.

That is why I wonder if this is the peak of the Libertarian movement or just the start of something bigger they've been building for for over 20 years as the old guard Republican Party dies out and gets replaced by this Libertarian movement of people that strongly support a different America even to the point of violent revolution. It amazes me that the Libertarians have kept grinding away to take over the Republican Party or at least divide it in purpose.

[I-5]

LIbertarians sound good. I enjoyed Ron Paul's speeches as much as anyone, might have even voted for him given the chance. But the libertarian attitude is probably a big part of the reason why we americans (I'm still american even though I'm presently in Canada), can't follow simple guidelines that the rest of the world seems to have no problem with like Covid for example. One of my oldest and best friends is a die hard libertairian, and frankly, I find his views to be almost completely useless....and I think he does too. We don't talk about it, but I find his favorite pastime is to take shots at any kind of conventional wisdom or authority, without offering any solutions. No thanks.

[RiverDog]

The fact this many came without Trump even calling for a revolution believing they were part of a revolution is what indicates to me Americans are ripe for this call.

I haven't seen any estimates of the number of protesters involved yesterday, but my impression was that it was in the thousands, not tens or hundreds of thousands. It really wasn't that big when you think of some of the violent protests in the past.

You must really not talk to Libertarians. I've been hearing revolution discussion since shortly after 2001. I remember a Libertarian guy I met at the job, a lawyer who disliked the police, discussing how they were building representation in the Republican Party because the Republican Party at least had some people who believe in the Constitution, whereas the Democratic Party believes the Constitution is a living document they can change when they feel like it meaning the Democrats think of the Constitution as toilet paper. He said they were trying to get elected to minor positions first, then continue to seat politicians up the ladder and in leadership positions in the Republican Party. Their plan was not a short-term plan, but a long-term one. They wanted to launch a revolution. He is the one that explained you only need maybe 5 to 10% of people to take up arms to revolt. He broke down how a group of 5 to 10% of Americans could conduct a guerilla revolutionary war in America to stop the destruction of the Constitutional Republic.

When I saw Trump elected, saw his platform, and it mirrored everything this guy was talking about 20 years ago. Trump was the first attempt by Libertarians to seat a president. Someone who touted the Constitution, claimed to want to follow it, and didn't want to hand the nation over to immigrants and foreign powers.

The Libertarians had seated a few politicians like Ted Cruz and some I can't even remember their names. I think Ron Paul was one of the early Libertarian Politicians that fomented the movement.

All I see when I look at this Trump movement is the hand of that Libertarian Movement within the Republican Party trying to push revolution. 20 years they've been pushing. Maybe you've ignored this movement and their goals, I don't know. I've listened to their rhetoric. Trump was put in power by that Libertarian movement that is tired of business as usual in Washington D.C. They showed up for him big in Washington D.C. on January 6th thinking they were starting a revolution.

That is why I wonder if this is the peak of the Libertarian movement or just the start of something bigger they've been building for for over 20 years as the old guard Republican Party dies out and gets replaced by this Libertarian movement of people that strongly support a different America even to the point of violent revolution. It amazes me that the Libertarians have kept grinding away to take over the Republican Party or at least divide it in purpose.

I consider myself to be more of a Libertarian than I do a Republican, at least on social issues. In 2016, I voted for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian Party candidate, as I didn't like either Trump or HRC. In the mid to late 90's, due to the nature of my job, I spent a good deal of time on the road, I listened to a lot of talk radio and my favorite was a rather obscure Libertarian by the name of Neal Bortz. I never considered them to be revolutionaries, but I haven't kept close tabs on the movement, either.

We have to keep in mind that the pandemic and the associated shut downs has driven a lot of people that were already skeptics into an anti government mode.

[Hawktawk]

Well, we're one charismatic and willing leader away from a revolution. I watched some of the commentary from these Trump supporters. They thought they were revolting. I hope that leader does not come around in my lifetime. Fortunately it wasn't Trump. The Trump Era is over. The last kick happened January 6th.

I don't see anyone with Trump's abilities replacing him. So this should die down.

I really hope you are right but I dont see it. A more charismatic and intelligent measured person could well tap into this throng. 73 million people aint going away. Josh Hawley wants to be that man.

[Hawktawk]

You watching the race baiting on CNN, MSNBC, and liberal news sites? They're finding pictures that don't tell the whole truth and painting it as though the police treated the Trump protesters kinder than the BLM protesters. Making it seem like tear gas wasn't used, guns weren't drawn, a protester shot, and that the police and national guard didn't come down on the Trump Supporters because they were white and supported Trump. Even though there is no evidence of this.

You and I both know the left media race baiting has been a huge problem for years. Right now there isn't even a discussion on the left when a police officer shoots a person of African descent. There is an automatic liberal media bias against the police painting them all as racist and part of the systemic racism of the nation. For all intents and purposes to the left wing putting on a police officer uniform is the same as putting on a KKK hood with of course the perfunctory "not all cops are bad but...."

None of the liberals on this board like c-bob or I5 and now Hawktawk will admit that the liberal media painting the cops as a bunch of racists part of a racist system got police officers killed by loons who bought into the whole "all cops are racist" narrative the liberal media blasts across the nation every time a police officer is engaged in this terrible situation. You wouldn't even think the cops ever shot anyone but people of African descent given the way the liberal media covers this using race-baiting stories, images, and the like. No accountability for doing so, just excuses from the mouths of liberals and a glossing over or minor coverage of police officers killed due to them inflaming the racial divide and painting police officers as racists.

But these same people will be quick to counter it isn't the same because that was real and this is fake. What do they mean that was real? Do they mean all police are racist is real? That the police are a racist organization that exists to enforce unspoken system racism? What do they mean? It's as irresponsible as what Trump did, gets more peopled killed, and creates a combative and divisive relationship between police officers and folk of African descent. But somehow it 's all ok.

So what are they going to fix? Both of these sides are entrenched. They will make excuses when bad things happen due to the way the media covers a story or gives a platform to the rhetoric. Neither of these sides is going to stop. They both think they're right. They're sure of it. It's why they do what they do and have been doing it for years.

The public dialogue needs to change on a lot of these issues. If it does not, then we may be headed for even more serious violence.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... oters.html
You're completely wrong about the police response. Theres video of cops taking selfies and moving barricades. The DC police chief refused offers of help from the FBI and the National guard as well as the state patrol even as the situation began to get dicey and only relented when people were already inside.This is verified by congressmen inside the capitol who were desperately callingn these agencies for help and being told they had not been authorised to respond yet but were ready at any moment..

Only 55 arrests out of maybe 1500 people breaking stuff, packing heat, shooting off tear gas in the capitol building. Compare that to gassing, shooting rubber bullets, smashing peaceful protesters in the face with shields in lafayette square for a fascist display of Trump with a bible and arresting 300 of them to boot.

Same place, way bigger danger but way mellower reaction. Antifa has a point the right wingers with their latent racism dont want to see either. Its a two way street.Listen you want to throw out these inner city protesters as an example of left wing loonies fine. I disagreed with letting it fester but Ill say it one more time. More white supremacists that Antifa/Blm were arrested at these riots in 2020 due to being much more violent and dangerous, much more likely to be armed.

I said it a couple of weeks ago. There are plenty of proud boys sympathisers in the police, in the military. They were praising the dumb kid Kyle whatever who drove to kenosha from illinois in the middle of the night with his AR 15 . Police officers were caught on film thanking a 17 year old punk who should have been in bed for his help about 20 minutes before he killed 3 white people in the streets of their own city.

Far as I know one death is attributed to Antifa, in Portland, an armed white supremacist shot by an Antifa supporter. Then there's the Skinhead in minnesota who shot up a police station with an automatic rifle to try to frame Antifa.

Thats the new plan for the delusional Trump supporters still on board. There's conspiracy theories all over the internet about Antifa really being the ones who broke in in disguise .People who are certainly happier with a Biden presidency wanted to disrupt his vote certification to make the trumpanzees look bad. Ok gotcha

A high ranking administration official who declined to be identified said Trump was acting like a "monster" who was watching the carnage on TV and enjoying it while his staff pleaded with him to read a prepared statement to the media asking for calm. He finally relented but as we all saw he ad libbed back to the dangerous lies than had just caused the riot. That's when twitter pulled the plug. He issued a statement this morning pledging a "peaceful transition" but he's issued lots of statements that weren't true.

This is not a political debate at this point. Its a national crisis every minute this man stays in power.

[RiverDog]

I really hope you are right but I dont see it. A more charismatic and intelligent measured person could well tap into this throng. 73 million people aint going away. Josh Hawley wants to be that man.

Hawley doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of replicating what Trump has done. For one, he doesn't have the money and secondly, he doesn't have the name recognition. The riot hurt his cause as even established R's view him as an enabler. He can kiss goodbye any significant committee assignments that he might have been able to use to make a name for himself. I don't see him getting any traction.

It will be interesting to see how the Republican Party reconstitutes itself now that they are firmly in the minority. They will have the advantage of taking pot shots at any and all proposals that are brought up by the Dems without having the responsibility of passing bills and governing. The old guard that were huge Trump butt kissers, ie McConnell, Graham, Pence, and others, have openly split from Trumpism.

[RiverDog]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9120689/Top-Dem-vows-probe-cops-arrest-just-52-MAGA-rioters.html
You're completely wrong about the police response. Theres video of cops taking selfies and moving barricades. The DC police chief refused offers of help from the FBI and the National guard as well as the state patrol even as the situation began to get dicey and only relented when people were already inside.This is verified by congressmen inside the capitol who were desperately callingn these agencies for help and being told they had not been authorised to respond yet but were ready at any moment.

Let's wait and see what the police's explanation is. I've heard that taking down the barricades was a tactic they decided to use when it became apparent that they were hugely outnumbered and it was a way to de-escalate the situation and buy time until more reinforcements arrived. I'm not sure if I buy that argument, but we need to hear their side before we start jumping to conclusions.

Only 55 arrests out of maybe 1500 people breaking stuff, packing heat, shooting off tear gas in the capitol building. Compare that to gassing, shooting rubber bullets, smashing peaceful protesters in the face with shields in lafayette square for a fascist display of Trump with a bible and arresting 300 of them to boot.

There are only 55 arrests SO FAR. There's likely to be many more once they identify and locate those that were seen on various videos of the event. We're barely 24 hours past it.

Again, I'm not saying with certainty what the police's motivation was, but there was obviously a huge concern of the fact that this was the US Capitol and that they didn't want an ugly scene of tear gas, billy clubs, helicopters, et al as the graphics would have been horrible and made it look like the fall of Saigon, although it ended up being that bad or worse.

I'm sure that there's going to be a full investigation into the police response as well as other aspects of this event. My biggest problem wasn't the police reaction as much as it is the fact that they were so woefully unprepared. They knew that there was a large mob of angry protesters as there was all sorts of activity on social media.

[Hawktawk]

Hawley doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of replicating what Trump has done. For one, he doesn't have the money and secondly, he doesn't have the name recognition. The riot hurt his cause as even established R's view him as an enabler. He can kiss goodbye any significant committee assignments that he might have been able to use to make a name for himself. I don't see him getting any traction.

It will be interesting to see how the Republican Party reconstitutes itself now that they are firmly in the minority. They will have the advantage of taking pot shots at any and all proposals that are brought up by the Dems without having the responsibility of passing bills and governing. The old guard that were huge Trump butt kissers, ie McConnell, Graham, Pence, and others, have openly split from Trumpism.

I said he WANTS TO BE the man. Not that he will be .That's why he did what he did though. I assure you he's currently the trump party front runner.There will be one or more Trump proteges in the R primary next cycle IMO so time will tell.

Lets see what happens but when a nation proves it has 70 million people who believe made up stories and agree with DJTs style and mental state this cult is here to stay. It doesn't matter what Graham , McConnel do or say. I'll never support them nor will Trump's loyalists. They are deep state now.

[RiverDog]

Lets see what happens but when a nation proves it has 70 million people who believe made up stories and agree with DJTs style and mental state this cult is here to stay. It doesn't matter what Graham , McConnel do or say. I'll never support them nor will Trump's loyalists. They are deep state now.

There aren't 70 million people that agree with Trump. That's how many voted for him. You can't argue with any credibility that everyone that voted for Trump believe his stories and agree with his style.

These people were radicalized by Trump, by the pandemic, by the lockdowns, social media, etc. Hell, the mask wearing alone has a psychological effect on people as it tends to de-humanize us. Let's see what happens in the coming months as we get through the pandemic and Trump is out of office.

Breaking news: One of the police officers injured in the riot has died. That brings the death toll to 5.

[Hawktawk]

Let's don't forget that regardless of the actions of the capitol police this happened because of a president committing insurrection, on twitter and facebook for weeks saying
"come to DC" for a "wild time" on Jan 6". Airlines flying into and out of DC have banned alcohol consumption due to most of the passengers being a "mob mentality" .

Of 55 arrests 54 were from out of state. The woman who was shot as a mob tried to actually reach the floor with the VP and congress people inside was a QAanoon member who flew from San Diego to protest. So a woman who believes Democrats run a secret pedophile ring out of the basement of a pizza parlor, believed that the heroic raid that took out Bin Laden was a hoax and that he is still alive got a darwin award.Killed by a poisoned mind. But hey MAGA, right?.

Yeah these are some real patriots still clinging to this man.

[Hawktawk]

There aren't 70 million people that agree with Trump. That's how many voted for him. You can't argue with any credibility that everyone that voted for Trump believe his stories and agree with his style.

These people were radicalized by Trump, by the pandemic, by the lockdowns, social media, etc. Hell, the mask wearing alone has a psychological effect on people as it tends to de-humanize us. Let's see what happens in the coming months as we get through the pandemic and Trump is out of office.

Breaking news: One of the police officers injured in the riot has died. That brings the death toll to 5.

75 % of republicans believe the election was stolen in poll after poll. I think its a much smaller number that thinks he should be doing this but I know its millions of people. I hear someone who supports him say "its more of a movement than about the man"

RD I love your optimism but with QAanoon, Newsmax, Parler there are people who have no clue what the facts are and they are gonna keep watching.

Trump may face state charges. I read it but dont have a link. He should be in jail.

[I-5]

Trump just gave a cowardly 2 minute pre recorded speech decrying the violence he incited yesterday (as if he had nothing to do with it), and claiming he's the one who called in the National Guard, throwing Pence even further under the bus, along with the rioters that he 'loved' yesterday. He acknowledged a transition to a new administration without naming Biden of course. So this is what a scared Trump looks like. What a POS.

HT is right again, the QA and other far right crowd are so detached from reality, they are beyond caring about facts. They've convinced themselves it was Antifa and BLM that stormed the Capitol to make them look bad.

[c_hawkbob]

Many elements of the capitol police had to have been aware of the makeup of the crowd ("they're friendlies, we go easy on 'em boys") going in and complicit with the breech as shown in multiple videos involving barriers being removed and such as well as complicit in guiding some of these a-holes to the proper offices and chambers for the most effective photo ops and places to leave bombs (2 of them).

Before Asea starts accusing me of saying "all Police" as is his usual bent, I'm NOT saying the whole Capitol Police force, but besides the two resignations we've already seen, there are gonna be several fired and possibly jailed as investigations proceed.

[RiverDog]

Many elements of the capitol police had to have been aware of the makeup of the crowd ("they're friendlies, we go easy on 'em boys") going in and complicit with the breech as shown in multiple videos involving barriers being removed and such as well as complicit in guiding some of these a-holes to the proper offices and chambers for the most effective photo ops and places to leave bombs (2 of them).

Before Asea starts accusing me of saying "all Police" as is his usual bent, I'm NOT saying the whole Capitol Police force, but besides the two resignations we've already seen, there are gonna be several fired and possibly jailed as investigations proceed.

I agree that something broke down, whether it be the Capitol Police, the DCPD, or the secret service. There's no excuse for them not being more prepared than they were and waiting so long to call in reinforcements. But I'm not making any assumptions, such as them being told "their friendlies, go easy on them". I'll wait until the dust settles and after they've done a complete investigation before venturing an opinion. The main focus is identifying as many suspects as they can and bringing them to justice.

The Chief of Police of the Capitol Police force has stepped down.

[RiverDog]

Trump just gave a cowardly 2 minute pre recorded speech decrying the violence he incited yesterday (as if he had nothing to do with it), and claiming he's the one who called in the National Guard, throwing Pence even further under the bus, along with the rioters that he 'loved' yesterday. He acknowledged a transition to a new administration without naming Biden of course. So this is what a scared Trump looks like. What a POS.

HT is right again, the QA and other far right crowd are so detached from reality, they are beyond caring about facts. They've convinced themselves it was Antifa and BLM that stormed the Capitol to make them look bad.

Actually I thought the speech was OK and was pleased that he agreed to a peaceful and orderly transfer of power. Problem is that he's closing the barn door after the horses got out. It doesn't even begin to make up for his behavior over the past 2 months, indeed, the past 4 years. That mob was radicalized by him from the day of his "many sides" Charlottesville remarks to his "Stand by and Stand down" and refusal to denounce white supremacy during the debates. This was 100% of his making.

[c_hawkbob]

The Chief of Police of the Capitol Police force has stepped down.

So has the Senate Sargent at Arms. That was the two I referred to. If you don't think there was a substantial inside element to the festivities last night you're just gullible.

[I-5]

Actually I thought the speech was OK and was pleased that he agreed to a peaceful and orderly transfer of power. Problem is that he's closing the barn door after the horses got out. It doesn't even begin to make up for his behavior over the past 2 months, indeed, the past 4 years. That mob was radicalized by him from the day of his "many sides" Charlottesville remarks to his "Stand by and Stand down" and refusal to denounce white supremacy during the debates. This was 100% of his making.

You're pleased...that he caved and read a prepared speech written by an advisor to somehow save his hide and avoid being impeached, so that he can run for office again? That was clearly the strategy, when he knows how many big players on both sides of the aisle are ready to remove him from office. Not that I think it will work. He usually comes back the next day and says what he really thinks.

[c_hawkbob]

And the proper quote was "Stand back and stand by", there was no "Stand down", which is what he should have and was asked if he would say.

It might seem insignificant unless you're ex military but the difference between "Stand by" and "Stand down" cannot be overstated.

He told his nutjob followers to "Stand back and stand by because somebody’s gotta do something about Antifa and the left". Clearly a call to arms and to stand at the ready for further orders.

"Stand down" is quite exactly the opposite.

[RiverDog]

If you don't think there was a substantial inside element to the festivities last night you're just gullible.

What I said was that I'm waiting until they've done an investigation before I come to any conclusions.

[RiverDog]

You're pleased...that he caved and read a prepared speech written by an advisor to somehow save his hide and avoid being impeached, so that he can run for office again? That was clearly the strategy, when he knows how many big players on both sides of the aisle are ready to remove him from office. Not that I think it will work. He usually comes back the next day and says what he really thinks.

I'm pleased that he finally committed to a peaceful transfer of power. I did not say that his remarks came from his heart as you seem to be implying.

[c_hawkbob]

Actually I thought the speech was OK and was pleased that he agreed to a peaceful and orderly transfer of power. Problem is that he's closing the barn door after the horses got out. It doesn't even begin to make up for his behavior over the past 2 months, indeed, the past 4 years. That mob was radicalized by him from the day of his "many sides" Charlottesville remarks to his "Stand by and Stand down" and refusal to denounce white supremacy during the debates. This was 100% of his making.

You're pleased...that he caved and read a prepared speech written by an advisor to somehow save his hide and avoid being impeached, so that he can run for office again? That was clearly the strategy, when he knows how many big players on both sides of the aisle are ready to remove him from office. Not that I think it will work. He usually comes back the next day and says what he really thinks.

I agree. This speech was prepared ahead of time for use when things got to the tipping point. It was used this evening in reaction to all the 25th amendment and impeachment talk in hopes if he acquiesced and looked like he was gonna ne a good boy for two weeks they might not actually pull that trigger.

[RiverDog]

I agree. This speech was prepared ahead of time for use when things got to the tipping point. It was used this evening in reaction to all the 25th amendment and impeachment talk in hopes if he acquiesced and looked like he was gonna ne a good boy for two weeks they might not actually pull that trigger.

Oh, I agree with that, too. I was not commenting on Trump's motivation for the speech. I was simply saying that I was pleased that he finally committed to a peaceful transfer of power. I could care less about his motivation, so long as he follows through with what he said.

You'll have to admit that it was better than anything he said yesterday.

[TriCitySam]

What I am: A retired professional; a fiscal conservative, I have voted Republican most of the time, but not all. I have admired the ethics and personal integrity of folks like Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, 41 and George W.

While I generally support Republicans, I have never supported Donald Trump. I have disliked him since he came into the national limelight as a NY R/E developer.

Donald Trump has a long, consistent history, back to his earliest days as a businessman of outrageous, untrue claims and corrupt actions.
Since the early 1990's shady business practices are well known. In real estate, there are HUNDREDS of contractors that DT failed to pay, including small business and individuals who did not have the financial horsepower to fight him in court. In every case, he made outrageous claims of wrong-doing. Yes this happens in business, but with DT it was a consistent pattern. A business strategy to financially overpower opponents. Outlast them, drain their financial resources. Did the same thing with his lenders - refuse to pay what's owed and force them into taking a haircut. Then there are the lawsuits of self-dealing in the operation of his family charitable foundation and Trump University.
In the early '90's casino owner DT was fighting Native Americans. Outrageous statements, claiming (falsely according to the Dept. of Justice) that they had fallen under mob control - he claimed publicly that they had "faked" their ancestry.
Some folks think this is the way a "good businessman" does business. I do not. It's a consistent pattern of lying and cheating.
Character counts. For me, this isn't about politics but rather about what kind of leaders we should be endorsing.

This much is UNDEBATABLE: The actions yesterday are directly against 18 U.S. Code § 2384 - seditious conspiracy, which makes it illegal "by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States," punishable by up to 20 years in prison, as well as those who "knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States ..." . The saddest day I've witnessed in this country.

[I-5]

I simply see nothing to be pleased by. If he weasels out of being rightfully impeached, he’ll be making all the noise he wants and continuing to bully the GOP until 2024, provided he isn’t dead or in prison before then.

[I-5]

You'll have to admit that it was better than anything he said yesterday.

I know this comment is directed at Bob, but we all know that what he said today was simply a calculation to live for another day, knowing he is on the brink of being removed by force via impeachment or the 25th Amendment. No one is fooled that he actually is serious about a peaceful transfer of power. So it doesn't really matter if it sounds better than what he said yesterday. There is more trouble coming for sure.

[RiverDog]

You'll have to admit that it was better than anything he said yesterday.

I know this comment is directed at Bob, but we all know that what he said today was simply a calculation to live for another day, knowing he is on the brink of being removed by force via impeachment or the 25th Amendment. No one is fooled that he actually is serious about a peaceful transfer of power. So it doesn't really matter if it sounds better than what he said yesterday. There is more trouble coming for sure.

Perhaps not, but it does show his staff and others around him that he's committed to the proposition of a peaceful transfer. If he says something to them to the contrary, they are fully justified in saying "but Mr. President, that's not what you said", give them a reason to disobey if his directive is obviously opposite to what he had said a few days earlier.

Like I said, at this point, with less than two weeks remaining in his presidency, I am not as concerned about why he said it as much as I am pleased that he did say it.

As long as Twitter keeps his account locked, I think they've pulled his stinger. He can't bypass everyone and talk directly to his base anymore. He's already had a number of his staff quit and with all the talk of him being mentally unfit and that everyone is going to be looking for a new job in 10 days anyway, he's not going to have nearly the authority over his subordinates that he has had in the past.

[Hawktawk]

Trump just gave a cowardly 2 minute pre recorded speech decrying the violence he incited yesterday (as if he had nothing to do with it), and claiming he's the one who called in the National Guard, throwing Pence even further under the bus, along with the rioters that he 'loved' yesterday. He acknowledged a transition to a new administration without naming Biden of course. So this is what a scared Trump looks like. What a POS.
HT is right again, the QA and other far right crowd are so detached from reality, they are beyond caring about facts. They've convinced themselves it was Antifa and BLM that stormed the Capitol to make them look bad.

100% agree. Trump is cowering in fear of being removed and maybe jailed immediately. Certainly his lawyers crafted this antiseptic statement to try to stop the snowball rolling downhill but its gaining steam.But they still had to be sure there was no mention of Biden Harris so crazy orange donnie would read it. Hopefully its the last time I'll have to watch this mentally retarded idiot read off the teleprompter like 5th grader.I truly relish the thought of this evil man in an orange jumpsuit. Probably won't happen but we can dream.

[Hawktawk]

What I am: A retired professional; a fiscal conservative, I have voted Republican most of the time, but not all. I have admired the ethics and personal integrity of folks like Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, 41 and George W.

While I generally support Republicans, I have never supported Donald Trump. I have disliked him since he came into the national limelight as a NY R/E developer.

Donald Trump has a long, consistent history, back to his earliest days as a businessman of outrageous, untrue claims and corrupt actions.
Since the early 1990's shady business practices are well known. In real estate, there are HUNDREDS of contractors that DT failed to pay, including small business and individuals who did not have the financial horsepower to fight him in court. In every case, he made outrageous claims of wrong-doing. Yes this happens in business, but with DT it was a consistent pattern. A business strategy to financially overpower opponents. Outlast them, drain their financial resources. Did the same thing with his lenders - refuse to pay what's owed and force them into taking a haircut. Then there are the lawsuits of self-dealing in the operation of his family charitable foundation and Trump University.
In the early '90's casino owner DT was fighting Native Americans. Outrageous statements, claiming (falsely according to the Dept. of Justice) that they had fallen under mob control - he claimed publicly that they had "faked" their ancestry.
Some folks think this is the way a "good businessman" does business. I do not. It's a consistent pattern of lying and cheating.
Character counts. For me, this isn't about politics but rather about what kind of leaders we should be endorsing.

This much is UNDEBATABLE: The actions yesterday are directly against 18 U.S. Code § 2384 - seditious conspiracy, which makes it illegal "by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States," punishable by up to 20 years in prison, as well as those who "knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States ..." . The saddest day I've witnessed in this country.

This right here TCS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^How in gods green earth this man even got nominated with that track record is beyond me, socialism bad notwithstanding. I think its just a ruse from his supporters. The attraction is much more sinister.

Yes Character matters in leader, far more than ideology. I guess I'm a,liberal now according to Asea. anyone who opposes trump is apparently. Ok fine Ill be a liberal in a free society with a safety net than live a single day under an unhinged fascist.

[RiverDog]

What I am: A retired professional; a fiscal conservative, I have voted Republican most of the time, but not all. I have admired the ethics and personal integrity of folks like Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, 41 and George W.

While I generally support Republicans, I have never supported Donald Trump. I have disliked him since he came into the national limelight as a NY R/E developer.

Donald Trump has a long, consistent history, back to his earliest days as a businessman of outrageous, untrue claims and corrupt actions.
Since the early 1990's shady business practices are well known. In real estate, there are HUNDREDS of contractors that DT failed to pay, including small business and individuals who did not have the financial horsepower to fight him in court. In every case, he made outrageous claims of wrong-doing. Yes this happens in business, but with DT it was a consistent pattern. A business strategy to financially overpower opponents. Outlast them, drain their financial resources. Did the same thing with his lenders - refuse to pay what's owed and force them into taking a haircut. Then there are the lawsuits of self-dealing in the operation of his family charitable foundation and Trump University.
In the early '90's casino owner DT was fighting Native Americans. Outrageous statements, claiming (falsely according to the Dept. of Justice) that they had fallen under mob control - he claimed publicly that they had "faked" their ancestry.
Some folks think this is the way a "good businessman" does business. I do not. It's a consistent pattern of lying and cheating.
Character counts. For me, this isn't about politics but rather about what kind of leaders we should be endorsing.

This much is UNDEBATABLE: The actions yesterday are directly against 18 U.S. Code § 2384 - seditious conspiracy, which makes it illegal "by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States," punishable by up to 20 years in prison, as well as those who "knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States ..." . The saddest day I've witnessed in this country.

Hey, welcome to the Jungle, Sam!

It sounds like your philosophy aligns closely with that of my own. I consider myself a fiscal conservative and social moderate. I, too, have not liked DJT from the day he made his first foray into national politics. I have not and will not vote for him. Although I have never considered myself a member of the Republican party, about 80% of my votes have gone to the R candidate, including 100% of those for national office prior to 2016. The first election I voted in was in November of 1972.

That was a very good summation of DJT and his activities. However, I have one question for you: If we accept that DJT broke the law you cited, which everyone in here has, what, if anything, should we do about it? Do we insist that the 25th be applied? Impeachment? Try him in federal court after he leaves office?

What I have been struggling with is the reaction to any remedy we might choose in order to hold him accountable. I'm not into exacting revenge and I couldn't care less what happens to Trump, whether he spends the rest of his life behind bars or on his golf course. What means the most to me is that we narrow the divide that Trump has helped widen, and I'm not sure if prosecuting him wouldn't turn him into a martyr for his followers and perpetuate this awful and hateful culture war that we have descended into.

Thanks again for tossing your two cents worth into this forum. Hopefully you'll come in here often. It's a small group but we're pretty well informed.

[Hawktawk]

The death of the cop is a murder investigation . Numerous legal experts have said Trump could face charges and state prosecutors have indicated they will charge ANYONE involved with this . I watched portions of Trumps speech shortly before the riots . He’s absolutely whipping the crowd into a frenzy , pressuring Pence in the speech . Guliani was even more off the hook as was Don Jr. frankly I don’t think the 25th amendment won’t happen due to Pence for whatever reason won’t sign off after being thrown under the bus by an obviously mentally ill man . Impeachment will probably happen and Ben Sasse had already gotten on board with it . It just won’t happen soon enough . So the man will be in charge of the nuclear codes for another 2 weeks despite a leaked account from an aide who described him as a monster , “ has lost his mind “.

I think Inauguration Day bears significant hazards as well. I wouldn’t be surprised to see an assassination attempt on Biden Harris in the next 4 years. Not a prediction but just a fear of these armed to the teeth kooks who believe Joe Biden is a communist who runs a secret pedophile ring .

[RiverDog]

The death of the cop is a murder investigation . Numerous legal experts have said Trump could face charges and state prosecutors have indicated they will charge ANYONE involved with this . I watched portions of Trumps speech shortly before the riots . He’s absolutely whipping the crowd into a frenzy , pressuring Pence in the speech . Guliani was even more off the hook as was Don Jr. frankly I don’t think the 25th amendment won’t happen due to Pence for whatever reason won’t sign off after being thrown under the bus by an obviously mentally ill man . Impeachment will probably happen and Ben Sasse had already gotten on board with it . It just won’t happen soon enough . So the man will be in charge of the nuclear codes for another 2 weeks despite a leaked account from an aide who described him as a monster , “ has lost his mind “.

I think Inauguration Day bears significant hazards as well. I wouldn’t be surprised to see an assassination attempt on Biden Harris in the next 4 years. Not a prediction but just a fear of these armed to the teeth kooks who believe Joe Biden is a communist who runs a secret pedophile ring .

I agree with most of what you said. But we haven't even rounded up all the suspects yet. That's the first priority.

Due to the pandemic, there won't be near the crowds attending Biden's inauguration, which will make the secret service's job a whole lot easier, so I don't expect to see anything occurring then.