He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Politics, Religion, Salsa Recipes, etc. Everything you shouldn't bring up at your Uncle's house.

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby burrrton » Thu May 14, 2015 10:39 am

lets be honest, In January of 2009 when Obama and the democrats were celebrating his inauguration the entire GOP leadership was meeting at the Washington Hotel and there they agreed to opposed Obama on every issue, even those that they previously had supported.


4ever, any 'meeting' that took place was typical opposition party stuff- Dems and Repubs both do it after they lose an election. They lick their wounds and come up with a path forward for electoral and political success.

Opposition parties aren't there to rubber-stamp every Bright Idea™ the President has.

Also, the most common quote about 'making Obama a one-term POTUS' and opposing his agenda is attributed to McConnel (I think), who said it after Obamacare was crammed down the country's throat on a purely partisan vote, and a rather dishonest one at that ("Louisiana Purchase", "Cornhusker Kickback", "If you like your doctor, you can keep him- period", and on and on and on).

Any level of opposition Obama has faced beyond the normal (and the amount of that is vastly overstated) is a textbook example of reaping what you sow, both due to his actions and that of Senate leadership (and no, this doesn't mean I think Republicans are 100% blameless in all cases- they've been dishonest dicks at times, too).

Google phrases like "stuffing the tree", "bills on Reid's desk", and such- you can't lay 'gridlock' all on Repubs' doorsteps.

And yeah, for the rest of the Birther/Truther/Communist/Socialist/Muslim nonsense, agree 100%.
User avatar
burrrton
Legacy
 
Posts: 4213
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:20 am

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Thu May 14, 2015 11:41 am

Read what I said, I said he is a bad president, talk about blown opportunities. I heard on the Norman Goldman show back in Obama's first term a guy that had worked with Obama since he first came to Chicago. He was also given a low level job in Washington as a perk to being Obama's friend. he said on the Goldman show that the Obama he had known for years is not the same Obama after he became President."I don't know the man anymore" He also said that Obama told him that he didn't have to do anything else as president, that being the first black president that his place in history was secure. What a myopic view? How did this man ever get elected not to mention re-elected? He is proud that he has led from behind. Lead from behind??? People should have listened when people he had served with in the Illinois legislature and in Congress said that he had no "stomach" for a fight. Didn't his voting "present" repeatedly ring any alarm bells??????
Seahawks4Ever
Legacy
 
Posts: 1480
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 12:56 pm

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby savvyman » Thu May 14, 2015 12:01 pm

Seahawks4Ever wrote:Taking all of that in to account, how come you are railing against President Obama? Are you saying that he had something to do with 9-11???

Obama lost my respect and trust a long time ago, he is just not the person candidate Obama claimed to be. He seems to have no moral compass and is willing to say or do almost anything to justify his flip flops and out right lies.



I had high hopes for Obama when he was elected as he ran as a "Outside reformer" who would be independent of the Lobbying interests who represent the ruling class that run our government - and in 2008 folkes that is exactly the type of leadership that was necessary at that time. Turns out once elected Obama threw out the highly ethical and Citizen oriented Paul Volcker (who would have seriously reformed both Banking and Wall Street) and instead replaced him with the gang of criminals (Geitner, Summners etc..) who brought our economy to the brink of disaster. Obama style of leadership would have been ok under normal circumstances but 2008 was a time for serious reform and jail sentences. Instead he allowed all the criminals who killed the economy to walk away - but not before the taxpayers bought out all the toxic mortgages and securities from these criminals at $1 for $1 (when they were worth 15 cents to the dollar).

By 2012 I would have pulled the impeachment lever in the poll both on Obama if I was given the chance. Not because I want one of these republican assholes in place - No - He should be impeached because he broke the majority of his promises that he made during the campaign in 2008 - this should be the standard for any politician in my opinion.

Seahawks4Ever wrote:You claim Obama is a communist. Do you guys even know what a communist is?? Because if you did you sure would put that label on Obama. Now, if you wanted to call him a plutocrat go right ahead.

You claim he is a Muslim, yet you offer not one shred of proof. The things you point to you should also charge the Bush family of all being Muslims or at worst radical Muslim sympathisers.

You also say he was born in Kenya yet he has provided as much proof as any other American is required to produce in order to prove you were born here in America. Yet, the same way the Ted Cruz is eligible to run for POTUS because his mother was an American by birth so too was Obama's mother so where he was born is a moot point.

I find challenging some ones faith and/or their patriotism to be of really low moral caliber.

Oh, and if you really believe those videos on the links you provided why are you not demanding that Presidents G.H.W. Bush. and G.W. Bush along with Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolphowitz, Jeb Bush and all the rest of the PNAC signers all be arrested for mass muder, robbery on an industrial scale, and massive cover-up??????

Yet, not ONE word regarding those people, the people your links offer some compelling, damning charges. Nope, not one word about THEM. No, only against P. Obama who must really have been a "master criminal" to pull 9-11 off when he was just a community organizer back then. Good Grief Charley Brown!



I know nothing about these claims about Obama not being a citizen and do not care. I think that evidence shows that Bush, Cheney. rumsfield , wolfowitz and the lot are the worst kind of people who have ever been in public service in the entire history of the USA. History will not be kind to these disasters of leadership. Just look at a couple of the links I provided in the prior page that shows not only how wrong they were but what Liars they are.


It appears to me that the country is so far down the wrong path and that the people do not possess the critical thinking abilities, the will or even the care to bring the Country back to the way the USA did things in the greatest period from 1950 - 1985 or so (except in the social area where there has been significant improvement in the inequity towards people of color, women and Gay rights- this has improved tremendously over the past 25 years).

I have very little hope for any of our current politicians on the national level to do what is right for the people. The one that I am aware of that I could get behind is Elizabeth Warren - she might be that rare person that would be UN-corruptable on the national scene. The only ticket I feel I could get behind would be a Elizabeth Warren - Ron Paul Ticket for 2016. Any other Democrat or Republican it will be the same old "Meet the New Boss.... Same as the Old Boss....."

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2011/11/elizabeth-warren-201111


>>>>>>Millions of Americans hoped President Obama would nominate Elizabeth Warren to head the consumer financial watchdog agency she had created. Instead, she was pushed aside. As Warren kicks off her run for Scott Brown’s Senate seat in Massachusetts, Suzanna Andrews charts the Harvard professor’s emergence as a champion of the beleaguered middle class, and her fight against a powerful alliance of bankers, lobbyists, and politicians.

She had gained millions of supporters. With her passionate defense of America’s beleaguered middle class, under assault today from seemingly every direction, she had become like a modern-day Mr. Smith, giving voice to regular citizens astonished at the failure of Washington to protect Main Street—and what increasingly appeared to be its abandonment of middle-class America. By July, the A.F.L.-C.I.O.—speaking for its 12 million members—had called on Obama to name Warren to head the agency. So had scores of consumer groups. Eighty-nine Democrats in the House of Representatives had signed a letter, publicly urging him to choose Warren. Newspapers around the country editorialized on her behalf, as did hundreds of bloggers. By July 18, when Obama announced that he was passing Warren over, he did so after receiving petitions signed by several hundred thousand people and organizations urging him to appoint Warren as the country’s top consumer watchdog.

At the end of his remarks, Obama turned to Warren and kissed her on the cheek. She smiled gamely, though if there are kisses a woman can do without, this was one of them. A Judas kiss, some would say. But if so, the betrayal was not just of Elizabeth Warren. In his remarks, Obama would hint at what had happened to Warren, commenting that she had faced “very tough opposition” and had taken “a fair amount of heat.” He also alluded to the powerful forces arrayed against her, and against the C.F.P.B.—“the army of lobbyists and lawyers right now working to water down the protections and reforms that we’ve passed,” the corporations that pumped “tens of millions of dollars” into the fight, and “[their] allies in Congress.” But he was mincing his words. The fight against Warren and the C.F.P.B. was one of the most brutal Washington battles this year, up there with the debt-ceiling showdown and now the looming battle over the jobs bill—but part of the same war. Arrayed against Warren, and today against the very existence of the C.F.P.B., was the full force of what many, most notably Simon Johnson, the M.I.T. professor and former International Monetary Fund chief economist, have called the American financial oligarchy: Wall Street firms and banks supported mainly by Republican members of Congress, but also politicians on the other side of the aisle, along with members of Obama’s own inner circle.

At a time of record corporate profits, a time when 14 million Americans are out of work, when millions have lost their homes and, according to the Census Bureau, the ranks of those living in poverty has grown to one in six—that Elizabeth Warren could be publicly kneecapped and an agency devoted to protecting American consumers could come under such intense attack is, ultimately, the story about who holds power in America today.<<<<<<<<<<<<<
User avatar
savvyman
Legacy
 
Posts: 2114
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:17 pm

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby burrrton » Thu May 14, 2015 1:21 pm

Read what I said, I said he is a bad president, talk about blown opportunities.


I acknowledge that- I'm only debating one point: the meme that all gridlock is due to some unilateral, unprecedented act of bad faith by his opposition party.

A fair reading of the actual events shows it's not, at least in my opinion.
User avatar
burrrton
Legacy
 
Posts: 4213
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:20 am

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby RiverDog » Thu May 14, 2015 5:48 pm

burrrton wrote:I acknowledge that- I'm only debating one point: the meme that all gridlock is due to some unilateral, unprecedented act of bad faith by his opposition party.

A fair reading of the actual events shows it's not, at least in my opinion.


Hey, I like gridlock. I'd much rather Congress do nothing than pass more hideous laws. Give me gridlock or give me death!
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby burrrton » Thu May 14, 2015 7:30 pm

RiverDog wrote:Hey, I like gridlock. I'd much rather Congress do nothing than pass more hideous laws. Give me gridlock or give me death!


Aaand... there's that, too.

The idea that passing more laws is a net benefit to this country (and some kind of positive indicator) should be an affront to every rational citizen*.

*And arguably it *was*, as evidenced by the results of both the 2010 and 2014 midterms- if there's any lesson to be derived, it's that America wanted more, not less, opposition to what the majority was pushing.
User avatar
burrrton
Legacy
 
Posts: 4213
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:20 am

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby RiverDog » Fri May 15, 2015 4:07 pm

burrrton wrote:Aaand... there's that, too.

The idea that passing more laws is a net benefit to this country (and some kind of positive indicator) should be an affront to every rational citizen*.

*And arguably it *was*, as evidenced by the results of both the 2010 and 2014 midterms- if there's any lesson to be derived, it's that America wanted more, not less, opposition to what the majority was pushing.


You know, I wouldn't mind giving Congress more of a free hand when it comes to experimenting with different ideas. But once a program starts, you can't pull the plug on it if it isn't working. Amtrak is a perfect example. When it was created back in the 70's it was supposed to be self sufficient in 3 years. Over 40 years later, it has never come close to breaking even, yet we still keep throwing money down that chit hole. Outside of the NE corridor, it they've cut back on so many routes and so many operating days that it is no longer a viable mode for anyone outside retirees and vacationers. It's no longer a national system, doesn't come anywhere close to several states and scores of cities with populations over 100,000. Or the USPS. With the advent of the internet, instant communications, and private competition from companies like UPS and FedEx, there is absolutely no need for the government to deliver snail mail to our doorsteps 6 days a week.
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby burrrton » Sat May 16, 2015 10:23 am

But once a program starts, you can't pull the plug on it if it isn't working.


Pull the plug? Hell, half the time you can't even *fix* it without getting demagogued to (political) death.
User avatar
burrrton
Legacy
 
Posts: 4213
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:20 am

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby RiverDog » Wed May 20, 2015 4:18 am

burrrton wrote:Pull the plug? Hell, half the time you can't even *fix* it without getting demagogued to (political) death.


No kidding. Since I'm getting close to retirement age, I've started checking into Social Security benefits. Wow, what a quagmire! What started out as a simple safety net has turned into this massive maze of options and ways you can get money out of it, from collecting spousal benefits off ex's, marrying a mail order bride and never living with them yet still drawing half their social security benefit, drawing social security benefits for a disabled child, etc. No wonder the program is in financial trouble. That was my main objection to Obama Care. In less than a decade, it will be FUBAR.
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby Hawktown » Wed May 20, 2015 8:28 am

I find it funny that some of us find all of these problems with government programs then turn around and think that the government is all about the people, for the people, then think the gov is AT ALL capable of running a country. It's all about money and power, they could care less about you. LOL, SMH!

Riv, at least you will get your SS, it will likely not be there when i turn 125 years old (the age it will be by then)! Happy to pay toward that for everyone else before me! (sarcasm) :D
Hawktown
Legacy
 
Posts: 392
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 10:15 pm
Location: Renton, WA 98058

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby burrrton » Wed May 20, 2015 9:57 am

And SS is one of the programs that would be relatively *easy* to reform.

But any politician proposes so much as a slight adjustment to it and the opposing party shts the bed.

So onward we go, insolvency on its way. Hope you're retiring soon enough to get something out of it, RD- I'm not planning on seeing a dime.
User avatar
burrrton
Legacy
 
Posts: 4213
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:20 am

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby RiverDog » Wed May 20, 2015 12:25 pm

burrrton wrote:And SS is one of the programs that would be relatively *easy* to reform.

But any politician proposes so much as a slight adjustment to it and the opposing party shts the bed.

So onward we go, insolvency on its way. Hope you're retiring soon enough to get something out of it, RD- I'm not planning on seeing a dime.


The wife and I are both 60 years old, so I think we're safe. Politicians won't mess with us seniors. We're an extremely large (and growing), politically active demographical group. AARP is by far the biggest lobbying group in the country. Social Security is referred to as the 3rd rail of politics... touch it and you're dead.

But for those younger than 50, I'd be concerned. The only way reform that includes a significant reduction of benefits happens is if they grandfather (pardon the pun) those that are too far along in their careers to be able to adjust to a significant change in their retirement plan.
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby burrrton » Wed May 20, 2015 1:23 pm

Yes, a sliding scale seems reasonable to me- the closer you are to retirement, the less your benefits are affected (and AFAIK there have been no proposals that would affect anyone over the age of 50 or so).

I also think means testing is a reasonable reform- the wealthier you are, the less you get. I'll never characterize that as *fair*, but for a program that is simply going to implode without adjustments, I don't think asking people with considerable wealth to take one for the sake of the country should be off limits.

It's been a while since I've run the numbers (or seen them run), but I think just those two rather reasonable steps go a loooong way to making SS solvent (open to correction). We spend so much money on it that small adjustments have a large effect.
User avatar
burrrton
Legacy
 
Posts: 4213
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:20 am

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby RiverDog » Wed May 20, 2015 9:44 pm

burrrton wrote:Yes, a sliding scale seems reasonable to me- the closer you are to retirement, the less your benefits are affected (and AFAIK there have been no proposals that would affect anyone over the age of 50 or so).

I also think means testing is a reasonable reform- the wealthier you are, the less you get. I'll never characterize that as *fair*, but for a program that is simply going to implode without adjustments, I don't think asking people with considerable wealth to take one for the sake of the country should be off limits.

It's been a while since I've run the numbers (or seen them run), but I think just those two rather reasonable steps go a loooong way to making SS solvent (open to correction). We spend so much money on it that small adjustments have a large effect.


The vast majority of those eligible to draw SS benefits are woefully uninformed. If everyone eligible drew the maximum by law that they could take, the system would be in ten times worse shape than it is now. For example, did you know that you can draw 50% spousal benefits from your pseudo wife even if you have never met and don't live together?
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby burrrton » Thu May 21, 2015 8:03 am

It pays for itself. It is in trouble only because of the cap on earnings. If you remove the cap, and make everyone pay to it, even if you make over $120 thou, then the system will be healthy for ever.


Do you see that your 2nd and 3rd sentences undermine your first? Did you mean it could pay for itself?

Either way, the obvious question is: if you're going to remove the cap on what's paid in, are you also going to remove the cap on the amount paid *out* to those people?

If so, you're back to square one (ish).

If not, you're simply arguing to significantly raise taxes to pay for it.

Anyway, like I said, I largely agree with you that SS isn't 'unfixable'- it's just that a shtload of things have to change in how SS revenue is collected, distributed, and taken advantage of. This is a good article describing the complexity:

http://www.factcheck.org/2011/02/democr ... s-red-ink/
User avatar
burrrton
Legacy
 
Posts: 4213
Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:20 am

Re: He Has Done Enough - Time for Obama to be on Mt Rushmore

Postby RiverDog » Mon May 25, 2015 5:53 am

I agree with burrton. Outside of a tax increase ("if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it's a duck"), SS will not get fixed. The younger generation isn't in a mood to, as they see it, throw good money after bad into a system that they have little confidence will be there when they reach retirement age. As a matter of fact, our public schools are telling high school students not to count on social security surviving another 50 years. And there's no way that the older generation will sit still for even a modest reduction of benefits. AARP is the biggest watch dog on the Hill, and Lord have mercy on the politician that proposes a reduction of SS benefits.
User avatar
RiverDog
Legacy
 
Posts: 23995
Joined: Sat Dec 14, 2013 10:52 am
Location: Kennewick, WA, 99338

Previous

Return to Off Topic

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests

cron