Donald Trump

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby RiverDog » Fri Aug 28, 2015 2:58 pm

kalibane wrote:I don't think anyone in favor of high speed rail would advocate having a system that stretched coast to coast for exactly the reason you stated. I don't even know if it's possible considering power concerns in remote areas. The idea is more like a system that served regional areas like the Eastern seaboard. West coast. Tying the Midwestern states together stuff like that. But that's beside the point.

Like I said I only got off on the high speed rail tangent as a counter point to your Amtrak because I didn't think it was such a great example. Main point: Amtrak was doomed to fail because it was outdated technology on an antiquated rail system that can't compete with other modes of transport even a car. Not actually advocating that we build one but if in the hypothetical the infrastructure was there to support a national high speed rail system I don't think it works out the same way.


Which is the same reason why it won't work on a large scale today.

There's a big difference between how the interstate highway system was constructed and possible ways to finance the construction of even a very limited high speed rail network. The construction of the interstate highway system was funded almost exclusively with federal and state gas taxes that were paid by the user every time they went to the pump. There is no way that you could fund even a small fraction of HSR with user fees.

We've beaten Amtrak to death. What about some of my other examples, such as the USPS? It is a function that was created in the 19th century when communications were non existent. Now it is obviously outdated and non essential yet we can't even get rid of Saturday mail because of politics. That's one of the other problems with government run systems. When they become obsolete, politics prevents it from being eliminated or even slightly modified to meet the changing conditions of the marketplace.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby burrrton » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:26 pm

Full disclosure, at this point it's just fun bouncing this back and forth so...


Same here. :)

Hypothetically if say people decided to undertake this since it would be regional you're talking about state funding being involved first. Now typically with stuff like this you're going to get some level of federal funding but not in any alternate universe would it seem reasonable to have the entire country foot the entire bill for something that only was serving regional areas. So if you're hypothetically doing this we aren't talking about the fed taking all of the cost on.


Makes sense, but look at the difference in both cost and what you end up with: the highway system is something each state could easily swing to *great* benefit, while California, with, what, the 8th largest economy in the world, can't even *begin* to think about affording HSR, and can't begin to demonstrate a need for it, and probably not even if they could foresee recouping that cost in less than six centuries (although to be fair, if they could demonstrate an ability to eventually turn a profit, they'd probably get private investment).

(that paragraph is worded horribly- sorry)
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby burrrton » Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:27 pm

When they become obsolete, politics prevents it from being eliminated or even slightly modified to meet the changing conditions of the marketplace.


See: "Throwing Granny off the cliff" commercials.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby youdoit22 » Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:44 pm

Re: Donald Trump

by Hawktown » Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:46 am

Seems to me that Trump and his political affiliates should be in prison for the rest of their lives and every penny stripped from their pockets! Along with the rest of the BS government traitors!

Cant argue aginst that
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Old but Slow » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:35 am

We have to realize that when we talk about big expenditures, we are just talking about moving money around. Just like the national debt, much of that is just owed to our selves. If we spend billions on infrastructure, for instance, that money is staying within the country, most of it is the form of wages to workers who will then spend it within the economy. There is a big difference from when we spend money on foreign economies or when we spend on wars in other countries.

When we spend national money in country, it comes back to us as recycled assets. When we spend it in foreign countries, it does not return to us. That is why our military budget does not favor us much, as we are spending huge amounts of money to build assets, for instance, in afghanistan that we will never use.

When we talk about our national debt, we must be careful to discriminate between what we owe to ourselves and what we owe to other countries. Most of what our current debt amounts to is debt that we owe to ourselves, and that is less destructive than debt own to other countries.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Old but Slow » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:36 am

We have to realize that when we talk about big expenditures, we are just talking about moving money around. Just like the national debt, much of that is just owed to our selves. If we spend billions on infrastructure, for instance, that money is staying within the country, most of it is the form of wages to workers who will then spend it within the economy. There is a big difference from when we spend money on foreign economies or when we spend on wars in other countries.

When we spend national money in country, it comes back to us as recycled assets. When we spend it in foreign countries, it does not return to us. That is why our military budget does not favor us much, as we are spending huge amounts of money to build assets, for instance, in afghanistan that we will never use.

When we talk about our national debt, we must be careful to discriminate between what we owe to ourselves and what we owe to other countries. Most of what our current debt amounts to is debt that we owe to ourselves, and that is less destructive than debt own to other countries.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Old but Slow » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:45 am

Here is another interesting part of the problem. We don't seem to have the money to solve our problems, whether it is infrastructure or social problems, so what about this?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/1 ... tail=email
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Old but Slow » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:57 am

As an interesting side element to the argument maybe we should consider this: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/1 ... tail=email

Don't ignore the sites that are offered.

We talk about what it would cost for infrastructure and for social programs. Compare the numbers.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Old but Slow » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:58 am

Sorry for the redundancy.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby burrrton » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:24 am

Just like the national debt, much of that is just owed to our selves.


Of course, but that doesn't make it any less an obligation. The Feds can't just say "Bah, it's just ObS's 401k- screw it."

And yes, paying that money 'within the country' will have more positive effects than otherwise, but the Feds can't pay that money into our economy without pulling it *out* of the economy first (or printing it, which would have other problems).

There's no free lunch and there is no money tree, unfortunately.

Regarding your link, that makes a pretty compelling case against big, Federal bureaucracies.

[edited to fix misspellings and missing words]
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby RiverDog » Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:29 am

Old but Slow wrote:We have to realize that when we talk about big expenditures, we are just talking about moving money around. Just like the national debt, much of that is just owed to our selves. If we spend billions on infrastructure, for instance, that money is staying within the country, most of it is the form of wages to workers who will then spend it within the economy. There is a big difference from when we spend money on foreign economies or when we spend on wars in other countries.

When we spend national money in country, it comes back to us as recycled assets. When we spend it in foreign countries, it does not return to us. That is why our military budget does not favor us much, as we are spending huge amounts of money to build assets, for instance, in afghanistan that we will never use.

When we talk about our national debt, we must be careful to discriminate between what we owe to ourselves and what we owe to other countries. Most of what our current debt amounts to is debt that we owe to ourselves, and that is less destructive than debt own to other countries.


Honest question: What percentage of defense department spending do you think is spent overseas? Most of our soldiers, sailors, and airmen's wages are spent in the USA, are they not? And isn't nearly all of our ships, planes, and other weapons systems made in the USA? How does the defense department differ from large manufactures that build or buy their products or components of their products outside the country and sell them to us? I see one Helluva lot of stuff made in China. You also have to bear in mind that a lot of today's technology we take for granted, such as GPS, was developed through defense department spending for the military.

I'm not advocating large military expenditures based on their return value, but I think you're selling short the impact of defense spending, especially for someone that lives in WA State where we enjoy many of the fruits of that spending.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby NorthHawk » Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:15 am

Trump is at least talking about the problems with so called Free Trade.
What it has done is export on a massive scale the manufacturing abilities to countries with cheap labor.
Consider that a lot has gone to China and there becomes a real problem.
China has a managed economy. That means they control the price of their currency, labor costs, access to their markets, and use huge subsidies to promote new (to them) business.
A Free market economy cannot compete with a managed and controlled economy when it comes to attracting businesses that use large scale employment.
At least it can't without driving the standard of living down considerably and putting a lot of people in the previous locations out of work in the process.
And that's what we've seen the last couple of decades.
Add to that the reported cases of theft of intellectual property and outright theft of product designs and we have a situation where the economic generator of the west is being neutered.

In all, I think Trumps best asset is he's not a politician. He says what he thinks and is unapologetic about it.
In some ways you have to admire him for that. At least he's not trying to be everything to everyone like a lot of phony politicians.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby kalibane » Mon Aug 31, 2015 8:09 am

Except everything about him is a façade, a front. He says whatever and doesn't apologize for it, I'll give him that. But I won't go so far as him being authentic. That's been his brand since his first reality show. All I see is the same showman talking about politics instead of business.

I have little patience for people who make their political hay talking about all the problems we have in society but offer up no viable solutions. Some people enjoy an echo chamber and that's where I think his support comes from. The scant policy planks he's offered are beyond ridiculous or realistic.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby RiverDog » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:47 am

kalibane wrote:Except everything about him is a façade, a front. He says whatever and doesn't apologize for it, I'll give him that. But I won't go so far as him being authentic. That's been his brand since his first reality show. All I see is the same showman talking about politics instead of business.

I have little patience for people who make their political hay talking about all the problems we have in society but offer up no viable solutions. Some people enjoy an echo chamber and that's where I think his support comes from. The scant policy planks he's offered are beyond ridiculous or realistic.


For a long time, I've wanted someone that was not a career politician to run for President that I could vote for. In 1992, we got Ross Perot, someone who's background appealed to me but who's personality was a total turn-off (oddly enough, it was Perot's behavior in his debate with Al Gore that turned me off). I would love to support someone like Trump, but he does not come across has being sincere. He's going to have to be the President of all the people, not just those that vote for him, and I don't see him as being someone that can heal divisions.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby RiverDog » Tue Dec 08, 2015 7:11 pm

Boy, I knew the guy was nuts, but banning all Muslims from entering the country? Even if it were legal, of which it is highly unconstitutional, it would be the exact opposite of what we should be doing and would play into the hands of our enemies. We are in a social struggle for the hearts and souls of the Muslim community and we should be reaching out and soliciting their help in this fight, not painting them all with the same brush stroke and banning them from entering our country. And he said it on Pearl Harbor Day, a reminder of when we relocated hundreds of thousands of American citizens, taking away their jobs and their property.

I'm normally all for freedom of speech, but this guy has to be stopped, removed from the Bully Pulpit. He's dangerous, and his rhetoric is going to cost lives as all it will do will be to drive moderate Muslims into ISIS and other extremist organizations.

Hopefully this latest remark will cause his supporters to take inventory of themselves and see just what it is they are hitching their wagons to.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby burrrton » Tue Dec 08, 2015 10:25 pm

Look, I've made it clear I think he's nuts, but he isn't driving anybody into anything they didn't want to be. The number of Muslims is a rounding error who are going to go "Well, I thought the United States was swell, but now that Trump is talking badly of us, I think I'll blow myself up and see how many of them I can take with me!"

I think he should STFU for a lot of reasons, but "THAT'S WHAT ISIS WANTS!" isn't one of them (and generally speaking, is just a lazy retort meaning nothing).

Hopefully this latest remark will cause his supporters to take inventory of themselves and see just what it is they are hitching their wagons to.


We agree on that.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Dec 09, 2015 6:22 am

Edit* photo removed.

Actually it wasn't my uncle it was my brother in law, but as it's not accurate I just removed it.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby burrrton » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:42 am

While I agree that anyone who'd vote for that clown is dumb, you shouldn't believe pictures your whacked uncle emails you:

http://www.snopes.com/1998-trump-people-quote/

See also: Valerie Jarrett saying she's Muslim and wants the US to be Muslim, too, and so on ad infinitum.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby RiverDog » Wed Dec 09, 2015 9:39 pm

burrrton wrote:Look, I've made it clear I think he's nuts, but he isn't driving anybody into anything they didn't want to be. The number of Muslims is a rounding error who are going to go "Well, I thought the United States was swell, but now that Trump is talking badly of us, I think I'll blow myself up and see how many of them I can take with me!"

I think he should STFU for a lot of reasons, but "THAT'S WHAT ISIS WANTS!" isn't one of them (and generally speaking, is just a lazy retort meaning nothing).


Maybe I shouldn't have indicated that he would drive Muslims to ISIS. The way I should have said it is that we need the help of all rational thinking Muslims in fighting ISIS, and the rhetoric that Trump is using is alienating them and makes them less willing to join our efforts.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby EmeraldBullet » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:19 am

Hillary will be the next prez, hate to say it. Trump will run as an independent and break the republican vote, Hillary already got TONS of overseas bribes in bitcoin with her private server (it wasn't for emails, LOL @ those that believe that).
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:47 am

A poll released today has Trump even with the lying spinster witch nationally and polling so high among blacks and Latinos its incredible for a man running as a Republican. Hes polling very high with unaffiliated voters too. If he could retain even a significant portion of that minority vote hes going to win in a landslide.The big story is that it isn't just angry old white men supporting him unlike what a lot of Republicans and most Democrats want you to believe along with the media..

I'm not sure that a Trump presidency is best for the country. Cant say I trust him and his blustering in your face personality just doesn't seem much like a statesman.I wish someone else would step up. But compared to old Grampa Sanders the whacked out Socialist or the greatest serial enabler a rapist husband ever had not to mention world class liar hell yeah Ill vote for him if its my choice.Like he said to the woman who said he wasn't being nice "This election isn't about a nice person, its about a competent person". Like lots of his other one liners it was right on the money.We haven't had much competence in either party in any branch of government for quite a while. Hopefully hes serious about the job and willing to put a veteran experienced team around him if he wins.

I would vote him in over Obummer today if I could.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:55 am

so you're telling me that trump is polling "so high among blacks and Latinos its incredible"?

I'm gonna have to see a link to this poll.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:24 am

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/12 ... hispanics/

This is the article Bob. I cannot get the link to open but you can get to it easily with any search engine. This is such whacked numbers I would give it no credence except it was shared by a friend on FB who is a moderate to progressive and also involved in the business of politics at a high level. So I dunno . If true it doesn't please me as a broken glass conservative.

But Bob the guy is a rock star. Hes packing large venues. Weirder things have happened. I know a lot of minorities are fed up with how it is and African Americans in particular feel Obama ignored them for a large part of his presidency.
Ive seen blacks openly criticize Obama for allowing illegals in the country and there are a lot of legal Hispanics who see it the same way. I personally know of several.Beyond that the trust and likability numbers for Hillary are abysmal.


Its going to be the dirtiest sleaziest campaign in US history if its Trump vs Hillary. UUGGHHHHH...
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:11 am

The link worked fine for me thanks, and after a bit of research the polling group, while republican leaning, does not have nearly as inaccurate a track record as many.

I'm truly surprised, and more than a little concerned. Personally there are no circumstances whatsoever under which I would ever support or vote for Trump. I think he's representative of everything that's wrong with America. I've yet to find a candidate I can firmly support this election, and may well wind up voting third party.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby RiverDog » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:21 pm

Hawktawk wrote:A poll released today has Trump even with the lying spinster witch nationally and polling so high among blacks and Latinos its incredible for a man running as a Republican. Hes polling very high with unaffiliated voters too. If he could retain even a significant portion of that minority vote hes going to win in a landslide.The big story is that it isn't just angry old white men supporting him unlike what a lot of Republicans and most Democrats want you to believe along with the media..

I'm not sure that a Trump presidency is best for the country. Cant say I trust him and his blustering in your face personality just doesn't seem much like a statesman.I wish someone else would step up. But compared to old Grampa Sanders the whacked out Socialist or the greatest serial enabler a rapist husband ever had not to mention world class liar hell yeah Ill vote for him if its my choice.Like he said to the woman who said he wasn't being nice "This election isn't about a nice person, its about a competent person". Like lots of his other one liners it was right on the money.We haven't had much competence in either party in any branch of government for quite a while. Hopefully hes serious about the job and willing to put a veteran experienced team around him if he wins.

I would vote him in over Obummer today if I could.


It might be possible for Trump to win the Republican nomination, although I'll believe it when I see it. But there isn't a snowball's chance in the lower reaches that he'd ever win in the general election. If Donald Trump gets the R nomination the Dems will win by no less than 200 electoral votes and 10 million popular votes no matter who the D's trot out. That's what is scaring the Republicans and why none of the major R's have endorsed him. Not only that, but a Trump nomination would cost the R's both the House and the Senate.

Trump is the worst politician to have entered the fray since Joe McCarthy. Even David Duke wasn't this bad. I'm a conservative and have voted Republican in every POTUS election since Nixon in '72, yet I'd vote for Obama every day for the rest of my life if the choice was him or Trump.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:35 pm

Trump is the worst politician to have entered the fray since Joe McCarthy. Even David Duke wasn't this bad. I'm a conservative and have voted Republican in every POTUS election since Nixon in '72, yet I'd vote for Obama every day for the rest of my life if the choice was him or Trump.

Obummer? Really. 8 more years of socialism communism while the guy golfs? Hillary?Electing someone because she is a woman is as stupid as electing them because they are black. You cant be a conservative and support either of those 2.And how can Trump be Duke or McCarthy and pull these numbers with minorities? He speaks in generalities and the press latches on but Trump isn't a racist in my opinion, hes a truth teller on immigration from the south or on the boat.

If those poll numbers are anywhere near correct hes winning and he will bring lots of republican congressmen with him on election night. Its a long way to next November though.

The primaries are interesting and will determine a lot in the next months. If Trump doesn't have a ground game or proper national organizing he could lose in the primaries. If he did lose he might run as an independent as well as Jim Webb who got tired of the protect Hillary debate and party manipulation. A Trump independent candidacy would be formidable. It would certainly tip the general election to Hillary but could be powerful enough to make history and win too.People are truly that pissed off. He couldn't be worse than it has been.

I would consider Webb if he was a viable electable option. But if Trump makes it to the general election running Republican with the support of that many independents, blacks, and Hispanics he will kill Hillary. Destroy her.

I'm not overjoyed by the prospect but im voting for whoever she is running against thats for damn sure.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby RiverDog » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:44 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Obummer? Really. 8 more years of socialism communism while the guy golfs? Hillary?Electing someone because she is a woman is as stupid as electing them because they are black. You cant be a conservative and support either of those 2.And how can Trump be Duke or McCarthy and pull these numbers with minorities? He speaks in generalities and the press latches on but Trump isn't a racist in my opinion, hes a truth teller on immigration from the south or on the boat.

If those poll numbers are anywhere near correct hes winning and he will bring lots of republican congressmen with him on election night. Its a long way to next November though.

The primaries are interesting and will determine a lot in the next months. If Trump doesn't have a ground game or proper national organizing he could lose in the primaries. If he did lose he might run as an independent as well as Jim Webb who got tired of the protect Hillary debate and party manipulation. A Trump independent candidacy would be formidable. It would certainly tip the general election to Hillary but could be powerful enough to make history and win too.People are truly that pissed off. He couldn't be worse than it has been.

I would consider Webb if he was a viable electable option. But if Trump makes it to the general election running Republican with the support of that many independents, blacks, and Hispanics he will kill Hillary. Destroy her.

I'm not overjoyed by the prospect but im voting for whoever she is running against thats for damn sure.


If my two choices are Trump and Hillary, I won't vote for either one of them. I'll either not vote at all or vote for a Libertarian candidate. I wouldn't vote for either one of those two if they were running for dog catcher.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Dec 31, 2015 5:02 am

If my two choices are Trump and Hillary, I won't vote for either one of them. I'll either not vote at all or vote for a Libertarian candidate. I wouldn't vote for either one of those two if they were running for dog catcher.[/quote]

I fear a Hillary presidency so much I will vote for the carnival barker if necessary. I believe he is very smart and is playing the media like a fiddle. Bernie Sanders said as much the other day. He isn't my favorite but I think he is capable of governance.

Cruz has actually gained traction in Iowa and has handled Trumps insults very skillfully to the point Trump actually slapped him on the back and complimented him last debate.
I believe Cruz is the only candidate that might not have Trump oppose him as a third party candidate. Just a hunch. Its a long time till Nov
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby RiverDog » Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:34 am

Hawktawk wrote:I fear a Hillary presidency so much I will vote for the carnival barker if necessary. I believe he is very smart and is playing the media like a fiddle. Bernie Sanders said as much the other day. He isn't my favorite but I think he is capable of governance.

Cruz has actually gained traction in Iowa and has handled Trumps insults very skillfully to the point Trump actually slapped him on the back and complimented him last debate.
I believe Cruz is the only candidate that might not have Trump oppose him as a third party candidate. Just a hunch. Its a long time till Nov


I have no doubt that Trump would be very effective at governing the country. I've often said that the country needs a businessman to run the country. But the problem is that the POTUS is as more about leading a nation, making people feel good about themselves, inspiring a nation, and Trump is just too divisive. I'll never, ever vote for him.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:23 pm

Hillary is not even as likeable as Trump IMO. Nor as competent I'm going to guess.

I agree RD one of the biggest things a President can do is make America feel good, proud, make them feel secure. Reagan Clinton, GW for quite a while after the 911 attacks. I haven felt very good the last 7 years, or safe, or proud.

I am sick of Trumps insults personally, even though I agree with the basis for many of them. Let others say it, its obvious. Can he open his mouth without blasting someone else?

I had 58 applicants competing with me for the job I've held 7 years. I was baited by one of the interviewers to criticize the guy I was potentially replacing. I declined, stating I wasn't going to criticize someone in my profession who just became unemployed. The owner loved that statement. My vision that I described did the exact same thing, drew the same contrasts. It didn't need to be said.

My great hope is that the field will begin to winnow as Iowa approaches. The Carson(he's just not presidential timbre as a communicator) Paul( too far on the right edge), Fiorina(lack of experience) supporters will go towards Cruz I believe. 40% is Trumps high water mark. Jeb is toast, Trump killed him dead. I see Christie rising.
Rubio is a big question mark. Yesterday he was the money behind the smoke rings writing letters in the sky bashing Trump above the bowl game. That might not fly with republican voters so to speak. But he is becoming the big money establishment favorite replacing Bush which ought to make anyone who is sick of the RINO Republicans a lot nervous.

I don't want Trump. I don't want Hillary. I think its time for a third party but it has got to be a credible alternative because I don't think another 4 years of social engineering and globalism is going to cut it.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby savvyman » Sat May 14, 2016 7:58 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Trump is the worst politician to have entered the fray since Joe McCarthy. Even David Duke wasn't this bad. I'm a conservative and have voted Republican in every POTUS election since Nixon in '72, yet I'd vote for Obama every day for the rest of my life if the choice was him or Trump.

Obummer? Really. 8 more years of socialism communism while the guy golfs? Hillary?Electing someone because she is a woman is as stupid as electing them because they are black. You cant be a conservative and support either of those 2.And how can Trump be Duke or McCarthy and pull these numbers with minorities? He speaks in generalities and the press latches on but Trump isn't a racist in my opinion, hes a truth teller on immigration from the south or on the boat.

If those poll numbers are anywhere near correct hes winning and he will bring lots of republican congressmen with him on election night. Its a long way to next November though.

The primaries are interesting and will determine a lot in the next months. If Trump doesn't have a ground game or proper national organizing he could lose in the primaries. If he did lose he might run as an independent as well as Jim Webb who got tired of the protect Hillary debate and party manipulation. A Trump independent candidacy would be formidable. It would certainly tip the general election to Hillary but could be powerful enough to make history and win too.People are truly that pissed off. He couldn't be worse than it has been.

I would consider Webb if he was a viable electable option. But if Trump makes it to the general election running Republican with the support of that many independents, blacks, and Hispanics he will kill Hillary. Destroy her.

I'm not overjoyed by the prospect but im voting for whoever she is running against thats for damn sure.



LOL - Guess Who your Boy - The Great "Jim Webb" is leaning towards? LOLOLOLOLOL


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/03/j ... gn=partner


>>>>>>>>Former Democratic presidential candidate Jim Webb won’t be voting for Hillary Clinton, but he hasn’t ruled out casting his ballot for Donald Trump.<<<<<<<<<<<
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Sun May 15, 2016 8:37 am

Obviously Webb isn't like Hillary which proves my point about preferring him as a Democratic alternative should i have been forced by the present circumstances to consider it.Ultimately the veneer of any core values has been stripped away as these political animals try to sort out the minefield and see the path to power and relevancy.Democrats endorsing Trump proves the party's point that he really isn't a republican at all.
Webb has the additional motivation to screw Hillary over after the party ignored him.It was the same reasoning used by Carson to screw Cruz when he endorsed Trump a week after being compared to a child molester by Trump.Its truly laughable. Jeff Sessions flipped Arkansas for Trump with an endorsement in a razor thin win over Cruz because he didn't like his senate colleague Cruz. Now hes lobbying openly for the veep position as is Newt Gingrich and other who have embraced the pied piper.

Its all about agendas and obtaining power.Never has the sleazy underbelly of politics been laid so bare,from the horrible candidates, the sell out lap dog for profit media, and the mostly low information voters casting ballots based on sound bites and slogans instead of examining the character and fitness of the candidate.

The speaker of the house and every living president don't endorse Trump so whatever. That is unprecedented at this stage of the game in my memory.I credit Ryan because I believe his is a courageous and principled stance, also very perilous. He will be destroyed should Trump prevail, especially being the vindictive nasty man Trump is.

And when virtually everyone who endorses Trump starts out with"we don't agree on everything" buyer beware. Trump is truly frightening IMO, maybe the last president we will ever have if elected. I certainly hope to be wrong should he be elected.But I've voted straight ticket R my whole life and I have never had such a sense of utter revulsion as I have towards this con man who has hijacked the party.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby savvyman » Sun May 15, 2016 1:15 pm

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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Steady_Hawk » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:37 am

Hey Savvy, check this out. If you've seen this already, I apologize, but IMHO it's outstanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxaKUo5naoY

If Hillary doesn't get indicted, Trump will win by a landslide. If she does, he'll probably lose to Sanders IMO.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby savvyman » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:29 pm

Steady_Hawk wrote:Hey Savvy, check this out. If you've seen this already, I apologize, but IMHO it's outstanding.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lxaKUo5naoY

If Hillary doesn't get indicted, Trump will win by a landslide. If she does, he'll probably lose to Sanders IMO.


Nice Video - will be very persuasive to those people who are too lazy to spend time trying to understand. I also agree with your insight about Hillary and the two outcomes of indictment or not.


Scott Adams - The Genius behind Dilbert - has written some very thought provoking insights about this campaign on his blog. Below is a sample:


http://blog.dilbert.com/post/146157026376/how-to-un-hypnotize-a-rabid-anti-trumper


>>>>How to Un-Hypnotize a Rabid Anti-Trumper

Posted June 19th, 2016 @ 9:43am in #trump #clinton2016

Regular readers of this blog know I’m a trained hypnotist. I’ve been studying the ways of persuasion – in all its forms – for decades.

My background in persuasion is the reason I recognized last summer that Trump would exceed most people’s expectations. He was pitch-perfect on persuasion technique. If you don’t study persuasion, Trump’s actions appear random and even dangerous. If you do know how persuasion works, you probably realize Trump is in a league of his own.

You think I’m overstating the case for persuasion. Perhaps you think Trump is doing well for a variety of reasons that include his accurate reading of the Republican base.

But Trump’s accurate reading of the Republican base is part of the art of persuasion. None of what you see in Trump’s election success so far is luck or coincidence. It is technique. If you’re not trained to see it, the method is invisible.

For example, I have already used several persuasion techniques in the paragraphs above. If I were to see another writer use these same persuasion methods on me, I would recognize them. But most of you did not recognize the methods – at least not all of them – when I used them right in front of you.

Persuasion hides in plain sight.

Just for fun, I’ve un-hypnotized several rabid anti-Trumpers lately. It takes less than ten minutes, requires nothing but conversation, and you can probably pull it off just by reading how I did it. Here’s how.

Un-Hypnotizing a Rabid Anti-Trumper

When you encounter a rabid anti-Trumper, ask her what are the biggest concerns of a potential Trump presidency.

If “Supreme Court nominee” is one of the top objections, discontinue your persuasion for ethical reasons. This person has put some thought into the decision and has a legitimate opinion that is at least partly based on reason. I don’t recommend changing that person’s mind.

But if a person’s main objections to Trump include any the following four reasons, I would consider it ethical to apply persuasion.

Objection 1: Trump is a loose cannon who might offend other countries and maybe even start a nuclear war.

Objection 2: Trump is terrible at business because he has several bankruptcies.

Objection 3: Trump is a racist.

Objection 4: Trump is anti-women and anti-LGBT

If any of those four objections are behind an anti-Trumper’s opinion, you have ethical license to persuade, so long as you are sticking to facts and adding context. I’ll show you how to do that with each objection.

Objection 1: Trump is a loose cannon who might offend other countries and maybe even start a nuclear war.

Persuasion: Trump has five decades of acting rational in business dealings, and getting along with people all over the world, including China and Russia. By now you would have heard stories of Trump being a loose cannon in his business dealings if such a thing had happened. We are hearing no stories of that nature. And people don’t suddenly change character at age 70. (That last sentence is the important one.)

How risky is Trump? Consider that Trump has never had an alcoholic beverage. He was against the Iraq war. He doesn’t want boots on the ground in Syria. He wants a strong military to discourage war. Trump personally gains nothing from war, but he has a lot to lose, including every building with his name on it.

Putin already seems to like Trump. They are similar characters in terms of their persuasion talents. And it wouldn’t hurt to be on good terms with Russia while we go after ISIS. Trump seems to have that relationship covered.

Trump has been negotiating with the Chinese for years, with no problems yet. And the Chinese leaders are not children. They got their positions by being great deal-makers, like Trump. They might not want to negotiate against Trump, but they aren’t afraid of his personality type. Trump often tells us that his first bid in any negotiation is super-aggressive. China knows it too. They are not naive. They can tell the difference between a negotiator and a madman.

Objection 2: Trump is terrible at business, as proven by his several bankruptcies.

Persuasion: Ask how many bankruptcies Trump has had. Most people say between 5-10. Then ask how many entities Trump has his name on. The answer is about 500. Then ask if that is a good performance for an entrepreneur who is often trying things in new fields.

(Asking questions in that fashion is good persuasion technique. It removes the adversarial frame and gives the person a sense of coming to a new conclusion without pressure.)

Then explain how licensing works. Trump puts his name on various products and he gets paid even if the product or company does poorly in the end. That’s an example of Trump taking the LEAST risk in a deal. The other parties take larger risks and frequently fail. Trump gets paid either way. All parties to the deals have lawyers who review everything. Trump isn’t taking advantage of people with his licensing deals. Licensees are knowingly accepting the riskier side of the deal because they also have the biggest potential upside.

Trump doesn’t like risk. We see it in lots of ways. For example, Trump has never been in a physical fight. He asked his wives to sign prenups. He creates separate entities so some can go bankrupt without bringing down the rest. He licenses his name so he gets paid even if the company buying the license does not make a profit. And he diversifies his portfolio to reduce exposure to any one risk.

Based on everything we see, Trump consistently tries hard to avoid risk in everything he does. And people don’t change character at age 70.

The exceptions to Trump’s risk-avoidance include some of the provocative stuff he is saying during the campaign. That behavior looks risky to most observers, but it was exactly what got him the Republican nomination. Evidently, Trump takes risks when doing so makes sense.

Objection 3: Trump is a racist.

Trump has never mentioned race beyond pointing how how many African-Americans and Latinos support him. Ask your anti-Trumper to offer evidence otherwise. Then point out…

Mexico is a country, not a race.

Islam is open to all races.

If the topic of Judge Curiel comes up, point out that all human beings are biased by their life experiences. Ask anti-Trumpers if they think Curiel would be comfortable at his next family gathering if his verdict favors Trump. (Notice the question form of persuasion again.)

Acknowledge that Trump was offensive when he attacked the judge’s parental connections to Mexico. But note that it is also good persuasion and good legal strategy. It puts the judge in the tough spot of either siding with Trump or appearing biased if he does not.

Then point out that only the Democrats are talking about race. And all of that race talk has been divisive. Trump has literally never said a negative thing about race during this election.

(Professional pundits will talk about Trump’s so-called “racist dog-whistles,” but normal voters do not mention it. They don’t know what it means.)

Objection 3.1: But Trump wants to discriminate based on religion!

Persuasion: Clarify to the subject of your persuasion that Trump only wants to discriminate against non-citizens. That is literally the job description of a president.

For context, point out that Islam is unique among religions in that it includes an order from God that Muslims should overthrow any government that is not compatible with Islam. Moderate Muslims around the world ignore that part of the religion, but refugees are coming from places where it is considered mandatory.

I don’t think other religions have a mandatory requirement to overthrow the government. So comparisons to other religions are nonsense. And the job of the president includes knowing when to make exceptions.

If you think we can screen Muslim immigrants well enough to stop all of the terrorists and future revolutionaries, just think about any job in which you had coworkers. Remember how incompetent some of them were? Those are the types of people screening immigrants. Does that feel safe to you?

Objection 4: Trump is anti-women and anti-LGBT

Persuasion:

Trump is the only candidate calling out Islam for its followers’ views on women and the LGBT community.

Trump wants women to have the right to own guns to protect themselves.

Trump is the only candidate concerned about crimes against women that are perpetrated by illegal immigrants from Mexico.

Trump has a long business record of promoting women to executive positions in his company. He was doing it years before it was fashionable.

The women in his personal life – including his ex-wives – seem to like him.

Trump is offensive in the way he has talked about women. But keep in mind that Trump has offended nearly everyone at some point.

The way to know your persuasion is working is that your subject will change the topic instead of addressing your point.

Example:

You: Mexico is not a race.

Subject: Well, Trump also had bankruptcies.

Don’t allow the topic to change. Instead, say again whatever you said just before it did. Make each point about three times, with slightly different wording each time. After the third restatement of your point, without an objection from your subject, allow the topic to change. It means you won.

Let me know how it works out.



Note: I endorsed Hillary Clinton for my personal safety, because I live in California. But my political views do not align with any of the candidates for president.

Personally, I would do better under a Clinton presidency. If Clinton gets elected, no one will blame me for anything she does in office. But if Trump wins, my blogging about his persuasion skills will make it look like my fault every time he does something you don’t like. I don’t need that trouble.

Also, as a top one-percenter, I’m winning under the current system. Trump is the only candidate who has the persuasion skills to increase tax rates on the rich, so #imwithher, for selfish reasons. <<<<<<<<<<<<
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Steady_Hawk » Mon Jul 04, 2016 3:11 pm

LOL Savvy, that template rocks!

Let's use it on RD! ;)
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Jul 05, 2016 5:57 am

Vote Gary Johnson. Make America sane again.#NEVERKLINTRUMP#

The debate is over. The battle lines are drawn. Nobody's hypnotizing or convincing much of anyone from here on out barring a Hillary indictment (good luck on that) or some ghastly misstep by Chump. IMO there's already been plenty so maybe he's bulletproof. It's his supporters who are hypnotized, all 38% of them. Its the most amazing thing I've ever seen in politics short of the last Presidential election. Although the self funder with his hand out is having some serious cash flow problems. Maybe money talks and BS walks.

But I'm done with talking about it now. I'm laying down the sword. it will be what it will be...

Should either KLINTRUMP be elected I will feel an equal sense of dread for our nation.
:cry: :cry: :cry:
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Steady_Hawk » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:15 am

Hawktalk,

Honestly, we are looking towards a Depression regardless of who gets in office. I'm shocked it hasn't happened yet TBH. I would rather we had a business man during that disaster than a politician. JMO.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:38 am

I agree we are headed for disaster, particularly with either of these two. Hillary just had the FBI director lay out a perfect case for indicting here before declining to do so, very predictably.Shes a lifelong career corrupt politician who would be losing by 10 points to anyone but Trump.

Trump was born on third base and keeps saying he hit a home run. He has been selling women and gambling and golf and the made in china Trump brand for 4 decades and still has been broke several times. Hes sued people who helped get his finances back in order. Like when the Trump Taj mahal was being bankrupted and many many contractors lost their life savings and businesses while Trump took huge bonuses and bought a 727.

That's not a businessman, thats a shyster 1 step ahead of the bankruptcy courts. No thanks. Not getting my vote.
Johnson/Weld is the only hope left for America.
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Re: Donald Trump

Postby Rideaducati » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:40 pm

Hawktawk wrote:I agree we are headed for disaster, particularly with either of these two. Hillary just had the FBI director lay out a perfect case for indicting here before declining to do so, very predictably.Shes a lifelong career corrupt politician who would be losing by 10 points to anyone but Trump.

Trump was born on third base and keeps saying he hit a home run. He has been selling women and gambling and golf and the made in china Trump brand for 4 decades and still has been broke several times. Hes sued people who helped get his finances back in order. Like when the Trump Taj mahal was being bankrupted and many many contractors lost their life savings and businesses while Trump took huge bonuses and bought a 727.

That's not a businessman, thats a shyster 1 step ahead of the bankruptcy courts. No thanks. Not getting my vote.
Johnson/Weld is the only hope left for America.


A vote for Johnson is a vote for Hillary and her mistakes have actually resulted in death and endangerment to countless others. Her "charity" pays out ten cents of every dollar that gets donated and the donors happen to be foreign governments that have probably been promised something they shouldn't be able to buy.
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