President Trump

Politics, Religion, Salsa Recipes, etc. Everything you shouldn't bring up at your Uncle's house.

Re: President Trump

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Sun May 21, 2017 11:46 am

RD; Explain to me your definition of "healthy" . Do you mean healthy body and mind, or just healthy body?? D.J.T. does not have a healthy mind, many high in the GOP have said he is "unhinged". I don't know about you, but I don't consider someone who is considered unhinged as being suitable for the office of POTUS. No less than 50 Republican members of congress signed an open letter in August of 2016 stating that Trump was UNFIT to be POTUS. They, of course, mostly caved in to McConnell and Ryan and ended up endorsing Trump. That doesn't mean they weren't correct in their original assessment of the man.

So, invoking the 25th Amendment very well may be appropriate in the future. But, do we really want VP Pence to be the 46(edit) POTUS??? He totally bungled the vetting process during the transition and now as been blatantly lying about what he knew or didn't know when he SHOULD have known.

Pundits keep saying that people like Sean Spicer, Mc Masters, or Sarah Huckabee are only doing "their jobs" when they lie for Trump and they should not be "blamed". What a crock of B.S. They do NOT have to tell lies, when they are asked to tell an untruth they should either refuse and/or resign. I would have much more respect for a Spicer if he would have submitted his resignation after the first time it was obvious Trump wanted him to tell a lie. Oh, that would have been the first day on the job when Trump told him to claim his inauguration crowds were the largest in "history". Well, maybe Sean cold have drawn the line on the second lie. Lets see, that would have Sean to his third day on the job. But I as well as many many other people would respect him rather that deride him.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Sun May 21, 2017 8:03 pm

Trump, while making a speech to a large group of republicans said the most IGNORANT thing. He said, and I paraphrase, "there is something not too many people know, Abraham Lincoln was a Republican.' "I would bet not too many of you knew that, did you?" I mean, you think a whole room full of Republican officials have no idea that Lincoln was a Republican?? I mean he was the very FIRST Republican president!!

The sad FACT is that it was Trump who probably had only recently learned that Abe was a member of the so-called GOP. That didn't stop most in that room from endorsing him for the highest office in the land.

You know, there is something really wrong with voting for someone who knows so little about our nation's history for POTUS. Not only is he totally ignorant about our basic history, history that any 5th. grader would know he has TOTAL CONTEMPT for our nation's institutions and laws. I mean, he has total contempt for the laws of our nation. That fact is what is truly DISGUSTING! Just as DISGUSTING is all of those people who voted for him though he never hid exactly what and what he is.

I can understand not wanting HRC to be POTUS, but to vote for someone who is totally unfit for the job???????????????????????

Anyone who voted for Trump SHOULD be ashamed of themselves, but something tells me that anyone who voted for him probably never really loved or believed in our country, the good ole U.S. of A. I don't care if you served in the military, Benedict Arnold served the nation BEFORE he turned TRAITOR. IMHO anyone who voted for Trump and/or continues to support him are TRAITORS and should be treated as such.

The people who are behind Trump want to destroy our nation from within. Putin & XI must be laughing their fannies off at how easy it was to DUPE millions of people to vote against their own self interest.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Mon May 22, 2017 1:52 am

Seahawks4Ever wrote:RD; Explain to me your definition of "healthy" . Do you mean healthy body and mind, or just healthy body?? D.J.T. does not have a healthy mind, many high in the GOP have said he is "unhinged". I don't know about you, but I don't consider someone who is considered unhinged as being suitable for the office of POTUS. No less than 50 Republican members of congress signed an open letter in August of 2016 stating that Trump was UNFIT to be POTUS. They, of course, mostly caved in to McConnell and Ryan and ended up endorsing Trump. That doesn't mean they weren't correct in their original assessment of the man.

So, invoking the 25th Amendment very well may be appropriate in the future. But, do we really want VP Pence to be the 46(edit) POTUS??? He totally bungled the vetting process during the transition and now as been blatantly lying about what he knew or didn't know when he SHOULD have known.

Pundits keep saying that people like Sean Spicer, Mc Masters, or Sarah Huckabee are only doing "their jobs" when they lie for Trump and they should not be "blamed". What a crock of B.S. They do NOT have to tell lies, when they are asked to tell an untruth they should either refuse and/or resign. I would have much more respect for a Spicer if he would have submitted his resignation after the first time it was obvious Trump wanted him to tell a lie. Oh, that would have been the first day on the job when Trump told him to claim his inauguration crowds were the largest in "history". Well, maybe Sean cold have drawn the line on the second lie. Lets see, that would have Sean to his third day on the job. But I as well as many many other people would respect him rather that deride him.


What the language in the 25th amendment, which was ratified in the wake of the JFK assassination, was meant to address was a situation where a President had an obvious physical limitation that's relatively easy to diagnose. Woodrow Wilson's condition when he had a stroke while he was in office was the event that most were thinking of when the amendment was ratified. The other situation it addresses is a temporary incapacitation, like when Eisenhower had a heart attack and transferred power to the VP Richard Nixon. Mental illness is almost impossible to quantify and even more difficult to get a majority of anybody to agree on. It would be easier to impeach Trump via Article 2 than it would to invoke the 25th. It would first require that the VP and a majority of Trump's cabinet and afterwards, a 2/3 vote of both the House and the Senate to remove him from office. Article 2 only requires a simple majority in the House.

Personally I'd much rather have Mike Pence as POTUS than Trump. If given a choice between the frying pan or the fire, I'll take the frying pan.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Mon May 22, 2017 2:02 am

Seahawks4Ever wrote:Anyone who voted for Trump SHOULD be ashamed of themselves.....


It's not just the people that voted for Trump that put him in office. It was also the Dems that voted for Obama but couldn't hold their noses long enough to turn out for Hillary. It was a God awful choice we had, the worst BY FAR in my memory. Plus she had just about every advantage a Presidential candidate could have, spent more money, had more experience running a campaign, had a larger network of volunteers and supporters, yet she still couldn't get enough people to vote for her. She ran a horrendous campaign, which included losing a state (WI) that hadn't gone Republican since Reagan won 49 states in 1984. The Dems have only themselves to blame for Trump.

The biggest problem I have with the protests is that they should have happened on Nov. 1 before the vote, yet all these various groups that are now outraged by Trump were for the most part silent and reclusive prior to the vote even as the polls started showing that the election was going to be close. It's not like we didn't know how goofy and unorthodox this man was. He's acting just as he did in the months leading up to the election, and his behavior and statements during the campaign should have been a wake up call. Trump is giving us a performance that was exactly what he showed us during the campaign.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Mon May 22, 2017 6:22 am

Rubio said yesterday" He's exactly the same guy he was during the campaign. Its what you voted for". Jeb Bush called him the chaos candidate during the primaries. He recently called him the chaos president.

I think the election of Donald Trump shows more about the increasingly distracted and low information voter and reality TV nature of the for profit media as anything Trump did so well.

The press enabled him as well with 2 BILLION in free earned media coverage. Now they are the fake news LMAO.
The fake news was that this guy belonged anywhere near the oval office. But my best friend in the world and most of my family supported him and still do.

It boggles my mind and scares the hell out of me. Trump isn't the only insane one detached from reality. Its tens of millions of people.
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Re: President Trump

Postby NorthHawk » Mon May 22, 2017 7:17 am

I heard someone on the radio the other day saying the lessen learned as follows (paraphrased):

When faced with a choice between a crook and a moron choose the crook as they can be reined in, but a moron will always be a moron.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Mon May 22, 2017 9:03 am

For all her issues and perceived liberal policies Hillary was the only first lady to be elected to public office as a US Senator and also served as a secretary of state. Add to that 8 years as a very active and engaged first lady (as opposed to the freeloading POS trophy wife we have now) the experience gap was enormous. The dishonesty is bipartisan as the current occupant reminds us daily.

Everyone voting for Trump said they didn't want a politician. The point I tried to make is that politician is more than a name. It has a job description that requires a certain skill set to get anything done. It demands maturity and a certain amount of decorum, an ability to reach across the aisle in certain situations.

Everyone said they want a businessman who will run the country like a business. instead they got a bad businessman with no decorum or self control who is running America like he ran his businesses into the ground more often than not. He's apparently flush now (tax returns?) but son Eric said in 2012 in response to a question about being able to develop so many golf properties in one of the worst downturns every in the industry "we get all the money we need from Russia"
Now he denies it of course, calls the golf writer a liar(sound familiar?)(tax returns?)

Republicans who are OK to put up with this crap are the biggest hypocrites ever.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Mon May 22, 2017 12:09 pm

Our social warrior Colin Kaepernick didn't even bother to vote. That's the type of hypocrisy that disturbs me, these people that are a day late and a dollar short with their protests then suddenly it's revealed that they don't even vote.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Mon May 22, 2017 12:56 pm

Anyone remember the movie "the Caine Mutiny" ? Humphrey Bogart played the captain of a navy vessel during WWII. Bogie played a skipper whom we would now say probably suffered from PTSD but that was unknown back then, even as a possible silver screen script plot.

Anyway, in the movie the ship is in a violent storm and is in danger of foundering, at least in the mind of the Executive Officer. The EO and a few of the other senior officers had been increasingly wary of their erratic captain, one even convinced the others that he was suffering from paranoia, after reading the definition in a dictionary. Anyway the EO took over the ship and then of course went on trial for mutiny.

It looked as if the EO was going to be convicted until Captain Queeg, played by Bogie totally "lost it" on the witness stand and pretty much proved the defenses case.

What the He** does that have to do with Trump??? I feel like I have been watching a real life version of Captain Queeg with Trump in the part of Queeg. Just as in the movie, when Trump speaks to defend himself he quickly "incriminates" with his own mouth.

This has been a real surreal experience.

You are correct about one thing River Dog, and I doubt many would disagree, our choices last fall were terrible.
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Re: President Trump

Postby burrrton » Mon May 22, 2017 3:40 pm

Rash .impulsive, prone to fits of rage, unable to accept any responsibility for his mistakes, compulsively tweeting despite knowing it hurts him, groping women and other high risk behaviors are not normal things.


*sigh* I've made my disdain for the guy well-known, I think, but this is bananas. None of those things constitute "mental illness" at a severity not displayed by half the population.

Quit listening to nuts and stick to realistic avenues of inquiry/punishment/impeachment/etc.
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Re: President Trump

Postby burrrton » Mon May 22, 2017 3:48 pm

For all her issues and perceived liberal policies Hillary was the only first lady to be elected to public office as a US Senator and also served as a secretary of state.


She was elected to the Senate and named SoS based purely on having been FLOTUS- not exactly an inspiring story for swing voters.

Add to that what she did while SoS and you get the worst candidate in history (well, tied IMO).

The point I tried to make is that politician is more than a name. It has a job description that requires a certain skill set to get anything done. It demands maturity and a certain amount of decorum, an ability to reach across the aisle in certain situations.


That's a good description of the ideal, not what we currently get in what I'd argue is a majority of our politicians.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Mon May 22, 2017 7:35 pm

HRC was NOT picked by Obama to be Sec. Of State because she was the former first lady. I can understand not wanting to support someone because of their politics or that their character may be more than one can stomach. But irrational hate is just that, irrational.

I don't "hate" Trump, I just do not think he is fit to BE the POTUS and EVERYTHING that has happened since Jan. 20th. bears that out.

There is not one POTUS that has kept all or even most of their campaign promises. But, DJT ran as a "populist" Republican candidate yet he apparently LIED when he said he wouldn't touch Social Security, Medi-Care, Medic-Aid. etc... His budget, set to be announced tomorrow proposes to cut 1.7 TRILLION dollars from these programs. It would be one thing if the 800 BILLION set to be cut from Medic-Aid was to be used to help balance the budget, but NOOOOO. it is slated to used to give the uber wealthy, the top 2% an 800 BILLION $ TAX CUT. Neither the Reagan nor the Bush (43) tax cuts also mostly for the top few percent led to massive creation of jobs that paid enough where one could raise a family on. It is a huge MYTH that tax cuts for the rich lead to growth of family wage jobs. No, what the wealthy do is go out and start buying out other companies, consolidating the work forces leading to massive LAY OFFS.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 23, 2017 4:07 am

Seahawks4Ever wrote:HRC was NOT picked by Obama to be Sec. Of State because she was the former first lady. I can understand not wanting to support someone because of their politics or that their character may be more than one can stomach. But irrational hate is just that, irrational.

I don't "hate" Trump, I just do not think he is fit to BE the POTUS and EVERYTHING that has happened since Jan. 20th. bears that out.

There is not one POTUS that has kept all or even most of their campaign promises. But, DJT ran as a "populist" Republican candidate yet he apparently LIED when he said he wouldn't touch Social Security, Medi-Care, Medic-Aid. etc... His budget, set to be announced tomorrow proposes to cut 1.7 TRILLION dollars from these programs. It would be one thing if the 800 BILLION set to be cut from Medic-Aid was to be used to help balance the budget, but NOOOOO. it is slated to used to give the uber wealthy, the top 2% an 800 BILLION $ TAX CUT. Neither the Reagan nor the Bush (43) tax cuts also mostly for the top few percent led to massive creation of jobs that paid enough where one could raise a family on. It is a huge MYTH that tax cuts for the rich lead to growth of family wage jobs. No, what the wealthy do is go out and start buying out other companies, consolidating the work forces leading to massive LAY OFFS.


You're right, she wasn't picked because of her having been First Lady. HRC's appointment as SOS was Obama's way of throwing a vanquished opponent and their supporters, supporters that he was going to need in the mid term elections and subsequent re-election bid, a bone. He was seeking a way to unite the party after a very divisive primary campaign against HRC. Unlike past appointments for SOS in both R as well as D administrations, Obama's appointment of Clinton was strictly political and not resume-based. Hillary herself said that she "never dreamed" of being the SOS, and Obama, during his primary campaign, had criticized HRC's foreign policy credentials. That was one of my biggest beefs about Obama, ie his appointment of her as SOS, not so much because I didn't like Hillary but the fact that he used such an important position, arguably the most important position in his administration after the VP, as a political tool.
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Re: President Trump

Postby burrrton » Tue May 23, 2017 11:20 am

HRC was NOT picked by Obama to be Sec. Of State because she was the former first lady.


Nobody knows her from Eve if her last name's still Rodham in 2000.

I can understand not wanting to support someone because of their politics or that their character may be more than one can stomach. But irrational hate is just that, irrational.


I dislike HRC for myriad other reasons- the fact (IMO) that she was only SoS because of her last name doesn't even register. I only brought it up because you listed it as a great accomplishment and I think there's a pretty persuasive argument it was just a political gift at best.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Sat May 27, 2017 6:59 pm

OK, now get to justify Jared Kushner. President's son in law so he gets carte blanche' to do what ever he wants to do? What are HIS qualifications? Or, Ivankas' for that matter?? There IS no justification but, I am sure in your opinion it is AOK to be a TRAITOR to the USA as long as you belong to the Trump Admin.
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Re: President Trump

Postby vahawker » Sun May 28, 2017 5:21 am

NorthHawk wrote:I heard someone on the radio the other day saying the lessen learned as follows (paraphrased):

When faced with a choice between a crook and a moron choose the crook as they can be reined in, but a moron will always be a moron.


Sad we essentially had the choice between the most horrific candidates ever. I wonder how many Never Trump votes Hillary got and how Never Hillary votes Trump got. Tired of being relegated to voting against someone instead of actually be enthusiastic to vote FOR someone.(I voted for neither) Are we so lost that there are no leaders or statesmen left? Or are we so fractured that someone like that has no chance? I have seen any recently.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Mon May 29, 2017 11:26 am

vahawker wrote:Sad we essentially had the choice between the most horrific candidates ever. I wonder how many Never Trump votes Hillary got and how Never Hillary votes Trump got. Tired of being relegated to voting against someone instead of actually be enthusiastic to vote FOR someone.(I voted for neither) Are we so lost that there are no leaders or statesmen left? Or are we so fractured that someone like that has no chance? I have seen any recently.


I don't think there's any question that these were the absolute worst two candidates that the major parties put forth in the same election. Going back 60 years to the 1956 election, Clinton and Trump had the highest unfavorable rating BY FAR of any major party candidate since they started doing surveys asking that question.

And I refused to be forced into this lesser of two evils philosophy in the hope that a 3rd party might be able to take advantage of the two dysfunctional major parties and get some traction. I voted for the Libertarian candidate.
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Re: President Trump

Postby obiken » Tue May 30, 2017 12:48 am

Obama had a 44 magnum mind and was using 22 cal ammo. Trump has a 22 cal mind trying to run 44 mag ammo through it.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Tue May 30, 2017 6:00 am

More proud of my vote for Johnson than ever. More POd than ever about the idiot forced upon me by the Fd up primary system and red necked idiots in early voting states. More tempted than ever to say to the savvy's of the world I TOLD YOU SO!!!!
Its been worse than even I imagined....
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 30, 2017 8:16 am

Hawktawk wrote:Its been worse than even I imagined....


It must have been a pretty tame imagination as World War 3 hasn't started yet, unemployment is at a 10 year low, and my 401K has increased 7% in 4 months since Trump took office.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Tue May 30, 2017 12:29 pm

RiverDog wrote:
It must have been a pretty tame imagination as World War 3 hasn't started yet, unemployment is at a 10 year low, and my 401K has increased 7% in 4 months since Trump took office.


Ahhh yes RD. And therein lies the conundrum. Economy is good. 401 K is good. So who cares if a lunatic is in the white house, right? A grifting lying groping total embarrassment of a clown.

As for WW3, unemployment and the market give it time. 4 years is a long time. Looking at the continual hubris and utter chaos in the administration this good stuff isn't sustainable, any of it.
It isn't surprising that business has been bullish about the platform of Obamacare repeal and drastic alterations to the taxing and regulation of business.ANY REPUBLICAN president would embrace some form of these things including immigration reform but without all the criminal activity and sideshows and insults of our allies and coddling of strongmen and dictators.As a republican there are things to like about the platform. But for me its always been about the POS himself, not the game plan.

After one of trumps recent gaffes the market lost more in one day than any time since august. It has recovered for now but the longer the guy proves a *republican* president cant get anything done with a republican congress, cant ever stfu, stay off twitter etc. the sooner the end of the Trump bump will arrive and it will be like humpty dumpty i'm afraid.

To me its more important that there is an unhinged buffoon up tweeting misspelled lies and lunacy at 4 AM, blurting top secret intelligence to russian sleazeballs IN THE OVAL OFFICE, blurting out the clandestine location of Nuke Subs to dictator Duerte from the philippines than anything about our economy.
Its more important to me that Trump is raping the treasury along with his trophy wife and privileged kids in total disregard of the emoluments clause than my 401 K over a 4 month span.

But most self centered low information American drive by voters don't care which is how we got where we are.
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Re: President Trump

Postby burrrton » Tue May 30, 2017 12:51 pm

HT, I'd honestly love to hear a detailed description of the post-apocalyptic situation you imagined, then a list of all the things that are worse due to Trump.

I've said it before and I'll say it again- this seeming inability to be anything close to rational and reasonable in your criticism of the guy does two things:

1. Motivates his supporters
2. Makes you sound like the lunatic

Groping: who has he "groped"?
Criminal activity: what criminal activity?
And on and on.

I'll give you chaotic, and coddling and insulting to many world leaders, but that's hardly the end of the world, and hardly unique to the Trump admin. Obama spent almost literally his entire 8 years doing it (see: Iran deal, Assad, Bibi, etc)

But most self centered low information American drive by voters don't care which is how we got where we are.


All those LIVs see are a bunch of people wetting themselves daily over the most ridiculous and banal things he does- keep it up and *you're* going to keep us where we are.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 30, 2017 2:16 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Ahhh yes RD. And therein lies the conundrum. Economy is good. 401 K is good. So who cares if a lunatic is in the white house, right? A grifting lying groping total embarrassment of a clown.

As for WW3, unemployment and the market give it time. 4 years is a long time. Looking at the continual hubris and utter chaos in the administration this good stuff isn't sustainable, any of it.
It isn't surprising that business has been bullish about the platform of Obamacare repeal and drastic alterations to the taxing and regulation of business.ANY REPUBLICAN president would embrace some form of these things including immigration reform but without all the criminal activity and sideshows and insults of our allies and coddling of strongmen and dictators.As a republican there are things to like about the platform. But for me its always been about the POS himself, not the game plan.

After one of trumps recent gaffes the market lost more in one day than any time since august. It has recovered for now but the longer the guy proves a *republican* president cant get anything done with a republican congress, cant ever stfu, stay off twitter etc. the sooner the end of the Trump bump will arrive and it will be like humpty dumpty i'm afraid.

To me its more important that there is an unhinged buffoon up tweeting misspelled lies and lunacy at 4 AM, blurting top secret intelligence to russian sleazeballs IN THE OVAL OFFICE, blurting out the clandestine location of Nuke Subs to dictator Duerte from the philippines than anything about our economy.
Its more important to me that Trump is raping the treasury along with his trophy wife and privileged kids in total disregard of the emoluments clause than my 401 K over a 4 month span.

But most self centered low information American drive by voters don't care which is how we got where we are.


But worrying about what might come...giving it time...isn't what you said. You said that Trump was worse than you had imagined. You were speaking in real time, not sometime down the road.

My point is that if what Trump is doing now is worse than what you imagined, then you are one of those "low information voters" as you must not have been paying attention to his campaign. He was doing then exactly as he's doing now with his threats, insults, and acting like an unhinged buffoon. IMO I am not surprised one little bit, and I'm not the only one. Jeb Bush recently claimed an "I told you so" as during the campaign, he said that Trump was going to be a chaos president, and he was exactly right. Nothing about what Trump has done during his first 100+ days has been a surprise, at least not to me it hasn't. This is going to be a wild ride.

Frankly I'm relieved that he hasn't done anymore damage than he already has, that his poll numbers are in the toilet, and somewhat gratified that he's stumbled into a major scandal as it will help prevent him from carrying out much of his agenda and prevent him from winning a 2nd term. This is probably the best situation I could hope for.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue May 30, 2017 7:00 pm

Trump is anything but unhinged and crazy. He knows what he's doing and it's won him the White House, so he's going to keep doing it. Why wouldn't you keep doing what worked?

I've followed Trump a lot of years ever since reading The Art of the Deal when I was 16. Trump is a great businessman. The claims that Trump is a bad businessman are way off the mark. People who bring up his bankruptcies as examples of him being bad at business don't really understand how to manage businesses. He isn't some tech billionaire that sold some company during the height of the Internet bubble, he's an old school real estate magnate. He's survived two major real estate crashes and lots of other economics ups and downs in one of the toughest areas of real estate: luxury hotels and casinos. He's built a brand name known worldwide and a very popular TV show. All his children are successful and he knows how to manage crowds.

And all this crap about him being a Russian spy is about the same as Obama and his birther crap or Hilary and her email scandal. A bunch of political pablum to make headlines and give the opposing party time to stall or win more votes. This is exactly what the American people enjoy and get caught up in. Scandals and other rubbish rather than real issues they don't really understand or want to participate in. That's why I haven't seen a Republican presidential candidate who wasn't painted as a racist, sexist, anti-free speech, and oppressive tyrant in 30 years or a Democratic presidential candidate that wasn't a socialist, social justice warrior, anti-capitalism, soft on crime, welfare handout candidate for the same amount of time. This is how American politics run: scandalize and polarize the opponent. Then these candidates get in office and nothing changes. It's the same with Trump other than the stupid twitter tirades. That's the main difference even though the media is having a heyday and a few extremists like Hawktawk and the like are losing their minds over a guy that isn't doing much different than his predecessors other than being a big, annoying loudmouth.

Policy-wise, we're enforcing immigration laws that already existed that the previous administrations did not enforce, which should have been enforced. The travel ban was a joke that read like the "Enemies of Saudi Arabia and Israel and a few countries too poor to properly secure their borders." H1B visas are still going to keep our big tech companies global labor pool open, so they can force American workers to compete with wages paid to Russian, Indian, and Chinese workers. So few people understand the law of supply and demand, they don't see how H1B visa immigration creating a much larger labor pool to draw from will drive their wages down. Because of course immigrant workers only do work that Americans don't want, apparently like computer programming jobs and network management and other high tech jobs. Oh wait, the selling point on that is American workers aren't skilled enough to do the job...though these execs never add for the price we're paying.

Trump's just another Republican president looking to reduce corporate taxes via Reagonomics with the usual tag-line of how of it will "trickle down" to the middle class in jobs. Doesn't matter this only works if the tax rate is choking the life out of the private sector as it was in the Roosevelt Depression Era with the 90% insane tax rate, but who wants to use measurable facts and logic when it's so easy to hornswaggle the American public with scandal and dogma.

I wonder how we came to these two candidates:

Trump: A reality, TV star and real estate magnate with a frat boy mentality at 70 who has been thrice-married when his wives' get too old to be good arm candy that love to go on Twitter tirades as President like he was still the hose of the Celebrity Apprentice and a private citizen. The man doesn't seem to have any respect for the office of president and treats it like a reality TV show. I'm surprised he doesn't have cameras following him around. And if he really wanted to fight Islamic Extremism, why is the primary source of extremism known as Saudi Arabia not on the travel ban list? 15 of the 19 hijackers on 9-11 were Saudi. Osama Bin Laden was a Saudi. Saudi Arabia is a theocratic monarchy that oppresses it's people worse than Iran and teaches the most hateful form of Islam on the planet that teaches no tolerance for any other viewpoint but their own, Wahhabism. But hey, not on the travel ban? They're our ally according to both parties. The travel ban was a token effort using beaten down or unpopular opponents to fulfill a promise.

Hilary Clinton: A former first lady that stayed with a husband that cheated on her multiple times, including a well-publicized scandal in the White House, proving that she is nothing more than a scheming, political climber more interested in becoming President than what is best for the nation. She and her immoral husband have been wielding political power in this nation for so long for personal gain that she thought she could pull her underhanded crap on Bernie Sanders and steal questions during the debate and other lowdown tactics while avoiding any repercussions. Well, she got her comeuppance with a loss to the worst opponent possible. Good riddance. She was not a good person and had no place being an icon for females. What kind of woman allows herself to be publically cheated on and shamed by her husband that she stays with solely to advance her political career? Is that really the type of icon we want young females to follow? I know I certainly don't. I'd rather my female relatives and friends follow a truly strong woman that would never tolerate her husband shaming her in such a manner. Strong enough to leave and make it on her own than stay for political gain.

Two worst candidates in our history. Yet America will survive Trump. What I'm not sure of is when we'll get a good candidate, if all we vote for is what the two parties present us with. Getting a nomination in a major party seems to be about having enough money and political sway and very little to do with what the policies of the individual are.

Even Obamacare was nothing more than a Democratic candidate taking a healthcare program from Massachusetts instituted by a Republican Governor on a national level. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the plan all along because Obamacare for all the talk aims to lessen the burden of healthcare costs on companies and increase the burden on individual taxpaying citizens. We can at least hope they truly socialize it and thus force costs down sacrificing the private medical industry to make every other business more profitable now that they don't have to pay for their employees medical. I think that was the plan all along myself.

I doubt we'll get a good candidate any time soon. Fortunately, we're still living very well in this nation and will continue to do so. The one advantage of capitalism over defunct systems like socialism and communism is it requires a large number of people prosperous enough to keep consuming products and services to keep businesses in business. If we don't buy food, video games, cars, and the like, all those 1%ers don't stay wealthy, the tax revenues drop making the politicians and their lackeys poor, and the entire thing falls apart. So it's in the best interests of the 1% to have a high rate of employment to ensure their revenue streams don't dry up. It's why socio-capitalism is the number one governmental system on the planet. It works because of its mutual reliance on the rich, the middle class, and the working class to keep it going, where as socialist and communist system have no such inherent symbiotic relationship because they try to remove one of the components from the equation rather than ensuring all three components are motivated to improve their position and assist the other due to the symbiotic relationship.

Cry as much as you want Hawktalk. This country will survive Trump, so will the world. And not much has or will change with him in office. Too much inertia to allow him to do too much. That's why he twitter tirades a lot without doing too much. He can't do too much. Too many checks and balances. He may seem crazy, but many of his appointees are very crafty and capable. The worst will probably see is four years of "Trump the Russian Puppet" scandal horsecrap for the media to generate ratings (something Trump loves) and stupid twitter tirades.

Oh, and hi. Long time, no see. I just couldn't resist jumping in. This has to be the dumbest period of American politics in our history. It makes sense that with the rise of Reality TV, we would eventually have a reality TV star as president. Let's hope Trump is the first and last, though I don't know if these slimy, equivocating lawyers and unaccomplished children of former presidents are much better. It's a bad time for American leadership.
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Re: President Trump

Postby burrrton » Tue May 30, 2017 8:11 pm

Asea- one post, but I recognize your name? What happened there?

A few thoughts:

And all this crap about him being a Russian spy is about the same as Obama and his birther crap or Hilary and her email scandal. A bunch of political pablum to make headlines and give the opposing party time to stall or win more votes.


I'm not... sure... about the Russian stuff yet (can't be bothered to care about it until I see an actual charge leveled), but the 'Hillary Email' stuff is hardly the same as the nonsense about Obama's damn birth certificate (which was absolute nonsense, and not too hard to argue it was based on racist impulses, one of the few).

She intentionally built (or had built) an SMTP server in her home and routed *all* State business through it, and there is no credible person that can argue she:

A. Didn't know classified info would go through it virtually every hour of every day
B. Didn't do it to try to dodge FOIA laws

It's as dishonest as it is stupid and naive, and it reflected HORRIBLY on her, as it 100% should have.

Trump's just another Republican president looking to reduce corporate taxes via Reagonomics with the usual tag-line of how of it will "trickle down" to the middle class in jobs. Doesn't matter this only works if the tax rate is choking the life out of the private sector as it was in the Roosevelt Depression Era with the 90% insane tax rate, but who wants to use measurable facts and logic when it's so easy to hornswaggle the American public with scandal and dogma.


1. Name a single Republican running for office that voluntarily used the phrase "trickle down" to describe their economic plan. It's a *slur* that non-supply-siders use to try to demagogue the issue.
2. Answer this: did the portion of our tax burden covered by "The Rich" go up or down after Reagan's tax policies were implemented?

[edit]

Oh, and hi. Long time, no see. I just couldn't resist jumping in.


Ah- thought you'd been here. Good to have you back.

This has to be the dumbest period of American politics in our history.


Couldn't agree more. Let's pray for someone like Romney vs someone like Kennedy sometime in the near future.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Wed May 31, 2017 2:43 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:And all this crap about him being a Russian spy is about the same as Obama and his birther crap or Hilary and her email scandal.


The two former examples couldn't be more different than the latter. The Trump Russian spy theory is out there with the fake moon landings and the CIA blowing up the WTC, and the Obama birther crap was debunked years ago. They are unsubstantiated rumors with no basis in fact. The Hillary email scandal was real and factual to the point where HRC herself has admitted to having made mistakes regarding it. It does not fit with your other two examples and should not be mentioned in the same breath.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Oh, and hi. Long time, no see. I just couldn't resist jumping in. This has to be the dumbest period of American politics in our history. It makes sense that with the rise of Reality TV, we would eventually have a reality TV star as president. Let's hope Trump is the first and last, though I don't know if these slimy, equivocating lawyers and unaccomplished children of former presidents are much better. It's a bad time for American leadership.


Glad you jumped in. We need an infusion of new blood. This is a much smaller board but being small has its advantages, one being that you always get a response to your posts. They don't get washed away in the crowd, even long winded ones like the one you posted. :D

I agree with your last paragraph. This past fall I voted Libertarian for the first time since I started voting in 1972 (so did Hawktalk, by the way). We need a 3rd party.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Hawktawk » Wed May 31, 2017 5:44 am

Its about the man. Its all about the lunatic tweeting incomplete sentences and words that don't exist shortly after midnight just this morning actually.
The plane called America can fly on autopilot for a while but the guy in the cockpit is unable to fly the plane. Its about Trump, the orange apparition.
And I have about 54% of Americans with me in the he's an incompetent nincompoop if not worse camp so you 38%ers can continue to hurl insults at me for my "unhinged" perspective. Its you flying blind .

Shut off Faux and wake up. This MF will fly us into a mountain.
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Re: President Trump

Postby NorthHawk » Wed May 31, 2017 8:31 am

We are witnesses to history with this presidency however it turns out.
I believe it will be his business dealings that will bring him down or he will have had enough and just leave.
I think he thought being President was the equivalent of being a CEO of a private company where he could simply issue orders have have them carried out.
If they weren't then he would fire that person. I think that's why Comey was axed and part of why he seems so frustrated.

The bad thing about this President is he might cast a shadow over any other business person that might want to run for the job. Refrains of remember the last
business person we put in power could mean some lost opportunities. As well, people who succeed in business may not want to go through what Trump is dealing
with.
Unfortunately I think he was the wrong business man for the Presidency.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Wed May 31, 2017 12:21 pm

NorthHawk wrote:The bad thing about this President is he might cast a shadow over any other business person that might want to run for the job. Refrains of remember the last
business person we put in power could mean some lost opportunities. As well, people who succeed in business may not want to go through what Trump is dealing
with.

Unfortunately I think he was the wrong business man for the Presidency.


I sure hope Trump doesn't poison the well for prospective candidates from Wall Street. There's a lot of good, honest individuals that would be taken out of the pool if we disqualified them because they came from the same lot Trump did. I honestly do feel that we need a businessman in the White House, at least as a peacetime President.

I've read a lot of books about former Presidents, almost all that served in the first 7 decades of the 20th century, starting with Teddy Roosevelt through Nixon, currently working on Coolidge.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed May 31, 2017 1:48 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Its about the man. Its all about the lunatic tweeting incomplete sentences and words that don't exist shortly after midnight just this morning actually.
The plane called America can fly on autopilot for a while but the guy in the cockpit is unable to fly the plane. Its about Trump, the orange apparition.
And I have about 54% of Americans with me in the he's an incompetent nincompoop if not worse camp so you 38%ers can continue to hurl insults at me for my "unhinged" perspective. Its you flying blind .

Shut off Faux and wake up. This MF will fly us into a mountain.


The polls predicted a Hilary win. Never rely on news polls to support your opinion, Hawktalk. That was more than proven this last election.

He shouldn't be president. That's about the most I'll agree with. He's a great businessman, but he's not fit to rule a nation. He thinks too much like a CEO that does not give a damn. That's just not a good way to engage with the public, especially about other countries and world leaders. Though I guess one could argue that getting the president's immediate opinion in the form of an unpolished, "tell like it is tweet" is interesting and refreshing, but it's bad policy as far as I'm concerned.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed May 31, 2017 5:50 pm

RiverDog wrote:The two former examples couldn't be more different than the latter. The Trump Russian spy theory is out there with the fake moon landings and the CIA blowing up the WTC, and the Obama birther crap was debunked years ago. They are unsubstantiated rumors with no basis in fact. The Hillary email scandal was real and factual to the point where HRC herself has admitted to having made mistakes regarding it. It does not fit with your other two examples and should not be mentioned in the same breath.


I don't see it that way. It bit Hilary hard in the elections, but I think it was a minor breach of protocol that is likely happening often among government officials to protect themselves against the Patriot Act as each of the parties has spies in the major intelligence agencies monitoring all of us electronically. The government officials and private citizens that have the money and tech are taking measures to ensure their privacy isn't circumvented by the Patriot Act given they are the type of people that would be more closely monitored. I think it was well known. I think it leaked as a way to attack her politically, but was never going to be pushed far enough to jail her due to so many other Washington bigwigs doing the same thing.

The people are subject to the Patriot Act, the politicians with enough power will take measures to protect themselves. Then apologize and make deals if they get caught to avoid any real repercussions. It's a big game to scandalize each other to the point where you lose political support and lose elections. I'm betting if Trump sees Obama or Hilary out and about, they toast him with a grin. Obama saying, "You remember that birth certificate scandal you were so fond of pushing. How does it feel to be a Russian Puppet President? Enjoy." Then Obama chuckles to himself as Trump manifests in the press as a sexist, racist Russian Spy after 70 years on the planet mingling with celebrities, politicians, and the New York elite. Now he's reviled by people that were once his associates that he supported all due to the press. I think the man gave money to the Clinton campaigns when they were running. It's all just a big game to them.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Wed May 31, 2017 8:38 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:The polls predicted a Hilary win. Never rely on news polls to support your opinion, Hawktalk. That was more than proven this last election.


The polls didn't predict anything. People that analyze their information do the predictions. There was lots of information out there showing a gradual move away from Hillary and towards Trump in the lead up to the election, but for some reason, the media didn't pick up on it.

Real Clear Politics did an average of nation wide and state polls on Nov. 1st and came up with Clinton leading by 2.2%, and they were true to their mark. Hillary won the popular vote by 2.1%. In the swing states, Clinton won MN and NH, a total of 14 electoral votes, but lost the 4 biggies in FL, MI, WI, and PA, a total of 85 electoral votes, and she lost every one of those by less than 2%. All she had to do was win FL and either MI or PA and she'd be in the White House.

Most polls have a margin of error of around 4%, so the polls were showing it to be a close election, too close to call. This was a failure of the media to predict an outcome. There was nothing wrong with the polls.
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Re: President Trump

Postby burrrton » Wed May 31, 2017 11:48 pm

The government officials and private citizens that have the money and tech are taking measures to ensure their privacy isn't circumvented by the Patriot Act given they are the type of people that would be more closely monitored. I think it was well known.


Aye aye aye.

Asea, if you run your classified (or any) info through unsecured channels, you're not any less susceptible to CIA/NSA surveillance- in fact, you're probably *more* so by degrees of magnitude (assuming they don't think .gov employees are more likely to be communicating with terrorists than the average joe).

She was stupid, but she wasn't stupid enough to think she was pulling a fast one by running classified info over the internet. The only reason to go to the trouble of creating a home-brew mail server (as a Fed employee) is to try to get around FOIA laws.

I think it leaked as a way to attack her politically, but was never going to be pushed far enough to jail her due to so many other Washington bigwigs doing the same thing.


No. She avoided prosecution because Comey told the DOJ "she didn't mean to" (a defense which comes as a surprise to all the people who *have* been jailed for carelessness with CI, something I have personal experience with, btw).

There have been others who've exposed CI on unsecured channels before (rarely, but it happens), but it's always been accidental and/or one-offs. It's *not* common, and none in memory have ever guaranteed it would occur for their entire term by refusing to use a .gov email *at all*.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Largent80 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 5:55 am

This JACKASS needs to be removed, and that's the bottom line.

Who in the hell voted for him?
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Re: President Trump

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Jun 01, 2017 6:59 am

[quote="burrrton"]1. Name a single Republican running for office that voluntarily used the phrase "trickle down" to describe their economic plan. It's a *slur* that non-supply-siders use to try to demagogue the issue.[quote]

Supply-side economics does not work unless the problem is specifically a tax rate that is so high it chokes capital expansion. Republicans demagogue the issue of supply-side economics as much as Democrats. Their one-size fits all economics is as bad as the Keynsians. The movement of money must be monitored in many ways to ensure no one aspect is receiving more of a benefit than another, meaning if you cut corporate taxes and all they do is boost cash reserves and payouts to the wealthy absent any corporate expansion that increases employment and consumption means an economic policy failure is occuring.

2. Answer this: did the portion of our tax burden covered by "The Rich" go up or down after Reagan's tax policies were implemented?

Trick question. The wealthy always pay a larger burden by percentage. That amount fluctuates based on wage levels and employment rates. So basing your economic assumptions on the percentage burden the wealthy pay is not a good indicator of economic equity. If their percentage goes up, it could well be an indicator of reductions in wages, employment rate, and wealth of the working class, sometimes due to hoarding by the wealthy which is what usually happens when supply-side economics becomes a dogmatic philosophy pushed absent any analysis of all factors affecting the economy.

To answer your question, it doesn't matter what percentage the wealthy pay. The wealthy paying a larger tax burden is not a good thing in an economy and certainly not an indicator that supply-side economics is working. It's more an indicator that the working class have falling wages, benefits, wealth, and employment which has been happening for a long, long time now. And will it if continues bite us in the ass very, very badly creating a stratified environment not intended by the Founders of this nation that would likely have found the corporate capitalism we now practice very undesirable.

Capitalism was chosen to encourage individuals to own the product of their labor and pursue the owning and building of businesses on a much smaller scale. It has become corporatism where single individuals or groups of individuals own thousands to tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of jobs wielding a level of political and economic influence far beyond what was intended. Americans were never intended to be be vassals to "job creators." That word has become far too sacred to the Republican right. I know I work for my money and have no intention of considering myself beholden to a "job creator". Rather they earn money off my labor per a work agreement and also benefit from my labor through that agreement as well by my consumption. I will not help to rebuild some pseudo-feudal system based on wealth in this nation by placing such people on a higher level via Ayn Rand's ridiculous philosophy.
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Re: President Trump

Postby burrrton » Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:06 am

Supply-side economics does not work unless the problem is specifically a tax rate that is so high it chokes capital expansion.


If so, funny how we've been in that situation virtually every time tax rates have been lowered, isn't it?

Trick question. The wealthy always pay a larger burden by percentage.


I didn't ask if they pay more (of course they do- VASTLY more)- I asked if their contribution went up or down. You only call it a trick question because you don't like the answer (and that answer for those following along is that it went UP).

I will not help to rebuild some pseudo-feudal system based on wealth in this nation by placing such people on a higher level via Ayn Rand's ridiculous philosophy.


Oh sht- you're one of those loons that gets a hard-on from Ayn Rand? Good talk, Asea.
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Re: President Trump

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Thu Jun 01, 2017 11:12 am

Quit trying to change the subject, this thread is about the Traitor in Chief Donald J. Trump and the many high crimes he and his family have already committed. Average citizens who continue to support Trump should be tarred and feathered and those like Paul Ryan & Mitch McConnell should be hung like the criminals they are.

Treason should NOT be a partisan issue, but, if those in the GOP want to be traitors then they should be treated as such.
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Re: President Trump

Postby RiverDog » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:41 pm

Seahawks4Ever wrote:...Paul Ryan & Mitch McConnell should be hung like the criminals they are.


I'm not sure where the angst against Ryan and McConnell comes from, but it seems to me that the Republicans are not lining up behind Trump on a number of issues, particularly in this thing about Russian involvement in the election process. Have you listened to some of the things John McCain has said recently about Trump?
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Re: President Trump

Postby burrrton » Thu Jun 01, 2017 4:45 pm

Average citizens who continue to support Trump should be tarred and feathered and those like Paul Ryan & Mitch McConnell should be hung like the criminals they are.


Get a hold of yourself, Sea4- you sound like a damn lunatic.
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Re: President Trump

Postby burrrton » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:16 am

So Trump nominated Christopher Wray to be FBI Director- cue the bed-wetting.
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