White House in Dissaray

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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:07 am

burrrton wrote:LOL:

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/20 ... -name.html

The country isn't out of sh*t to lose yet, apparently.


If 29% of young Americans can't even find the Pacific Ocean on map, then it seems reasonable to conclude that a large number of them would genuinely believe that a person of obvious Asian ancestry is a direct descendent of the Civil War general. ESPN is simply making a sound business decision by acknowledging the fact that Americans are for the most part a collection of babbling idiots and are changing this guy's assignment in order to avoid a controversy and having to go to all the trouble of defending themselves against accusations of hiring a Confederate sympathizer.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby burrrton » Wed Aug 23, 2017 9:16 am

Hey, I'm not saying it might not be a sound business decision, but the fact that an Asian guy's name might cause controversy is about as 2017 as it gets.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Wed Aug 23, 2017 11:58 am

burrrton wrote:Hey, I'm not saying it might not be a sound business decision, but the fact that an Asian guy's name might cause controversy is about as 2017 as it gets.


You have to keep in mind that this is the same ESPN that hired Rush Limbaugh in as an NFL commentator.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Thu Aug 24, 2017 4:52 am

I haven't watched anything except a few college football games from there in the last few years. It is totally in the shitter.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Thu Aug 24, 2017 12:20 pm

Largent80 wrote:I haven't watched anything except a few college football games from there in the last few years. It is totally in the shitter.


And it's likely to get worse before it gets better. With internet streaming technology improving every year, ESPN stands to take a big hit.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:00 pm

RiverDog wrote:I don't think that there's any doubt that he's a racist, and I felt that way long before Charlottesville. Outside of David Duke, I can't think of a politician on the national stage since George Wallace (who later repented in his ways) that's as much of a racist as Trump is.


Why exactly do you think he's a racist? Many people that consider themselves non-racist folk talk in a similar fashion to Trump using nicer words. But in their minds, they very much segregate people into type with certain predetermined notions of them. Do you truly believe he believes "Whties are superior" and deserve a higher place in society? Or do you mean he's a New York "racist" in terms of using racial slurs and thinking people should stick with their own? I don't believe he is a KKK racist wanting to propagate the White Power Aryan Nation/Nazi philosophy. You might be able to talk me into the New York "racist" where you stick with your own as far as marrying and the like. And having attitudes that involve stereotyping and similar thinking, which a lot of people possess that I don't look at as racist, but more ethnocentric and prejudiced. Then again many folk of African descent think the same way of people of European ancestry and we don't refer to them as racist.

Racism implies the belief in the superiority of your race as well as the power to inflict that on people. Prejudice and ethnocentricism is a different animal that usually involves stereotyping negative and positive, but not racism. That word is vastly overused in the modern day. I also find it amusing that thinking that is racist and feminist meaning the promotion of a "victimized" race and/or pro a specific gender is tolerated,while ire is raised for the opposite. I understand why it occurs, but it is illogical and fallacious.

No. I don't agree that Trump is a KKK-style racist. I'd love to see the proof of this other than the one time they attribute his father at a KKK rally. What other examples of him truly supporting the spread of racism other than word attributions? I've followed a Trump a long time, long before he became president. This whole racist BS only came to the forefront once he ran for president, usually because of some snippet taken out of context of a speech he gave like the whole "Trump hates Mexican" BS that was falsely promoted. Trump is very right about Mexico and their immigration policies being bad for the United States. Mexico purposefully funnels immigrants here from other nations they do not take in and encourages immigration to the United States because they know those people will send money back to the U.S. He didn't explain it in as diplomatic manner, but this is absolutely occurring to the detriment of our job market and economy. Most Americans are too uneducated in economics to understand how badly this hurts our economy. I very much hope he destroys NAFTA.

Explain to me why every single Republican candidate in my lifetime is some how a racist? Why does this always to be the refrain of the liberal left and why are you buying into it?
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:12 pm

RiverDog wrote:My father grew up as a household strength racist, meaning that he wasn't anywhere close to being a KKK member or believing in white supremacy....and hated the Nazis. He was born in 1925 and his attitude simply reflected what was for his day mainstream thought for white males of that era, kind of a separate-but-equal, did not believe in mixed marriages, etc. But as his two boys were growing up and made friends with blacks and Hispanics, and as the civil rights movement peaked in the early 70's, he changed. That doesn't mean that I didn't love and respect my father, it just means that I believed that his original attitudes on one subject were wrong. I sincerely believe that my dad's attitudes were to some degree changed by his children rather than the other way around.

Environmental conditions can affect attitudes and beliefs, but as mentally healthy individuals, we are all born with an ability to tell right from wrong and like Kal said, at some point become responsible for our own psychological makeup.

Trump's attitudes on immigrants reflect his racism, which is why I opposed his executive order in the opening days of his administration, even the revised one that made it technically legal. I don't trust his motives. I have a hard time taking what he says on social issues at face value and will question anything that comes out of his mouth regarding that subject.


I see. Yes, Trump is probably a bit "racist" like your father. I don't believe that is racist. I believe that is ethnocentric and prejudiced.

Trump is right on immigration. It needs to be limited. Other nations have far more stringent immigration requirements, yet Trump wants to clean up immigration and he's a racist? Give me a break. We need immigration enforcement. If the government (left and right) hadn't forced this down our throat for so long (NAFTA and all the other free trade agreements), they wouldn't have had this type of reaction. When you read up extensively on what is occurring with immigration, you see between the unchecked immigration at our borders and the H1B visa program the job market in America is under serious pressure.

The increase in demand for goods and services from the population increase isn't being offset by the downward pressure in wages from the increased supply of job seekers. The H1B visa program is creating an international competition for wages in the tech industry that is driving wages down. How can an American worker used to a certain standard of living compete with an Indian, Chinese, or Russian worker that sees a lower wage as a serious upgrade to their wage scale? You have American workers competing against Indian, Chinese, Russian, and other foreign workers that will take a lower wage. This is purposely being orchestrated by powerful tech companies to ensure a global labor pool drawing from poorer nations that will accept a lower wage due to the corruption of their government. Makes it hard to maintain the American standard of living if you're competing against the Russian, Indian, and Chinese standard of living in the job market.

Yet the focus has become instead on the President's words about immigrants rather than a real discussion of the economic aspects of immigration. You will notice the smarmy liberals talking about immigrants doing "jobs no one wants", especially when speaking about immigrants from Latin America. And yet that is somehow not "racist." There is no discussion of the effect of immigration on the construction industry or the tech industry because very powerful companies want to ensure that nothing damages their global labor pool.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Old but Slow » Sat Aug 26, 2017 12:12 am

You make a compelling argument, and I wish I had the energy currently and concentration to go through it point by point, but I will at least contest the point you made that racism implies superiority. There is evidence for that, surely, but there is another form in which the individual says that while they believe the other is capable, but he is not of us. My group. My race. Everybody else is wrong, except you and me, and I have some concerns about you. (sorry, old joke, and I couldn't pass up the opportunity. Some will understand.)

It may be a natural thing to gravitate to and favor those most like you, but that does not make it fair. This kind of racist can hire others, and even promote them, but the idea comes back to helping your own community.

On a personal basis, that is a choice. On a business basis, it is discriminatory, and subject to law. On a political basis it is business as usual. On a legal, or government basis, it is unacceptable.

No need to be a hater to be a racist.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Old but Slow » Sat Aug 26, 2017 9:43 pm

A new low point as our Present Resident pardons Sheriff Joe. Charles Manson next? To me, it is an endorsement of racism. Arpaio is the lowest of the low, in my view.

But the act is more than that. It sets a precedence, especially, as the court case was not complete. It will take the edge off of scrutiny if he begins pardoning those close to him.

I am sad that my president scares me.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Aseahawkfan » Sun Aug 27, 2017 1:11 pm

Old but Slow wrote:A new low point as our Present Resident pardons Sheriff Joe. Charles Manson next? To me, it is an endorsement of racism. Arpaio is the lowest of the low, in my view.

But the act is more than that. It sets a precedence, especially, as the court case was not complete. It will take the edge off of scrutiny if he begins pardoning those close to him.

I am sad that my president scares me.


Worse people than Arpaio were pardoned by previous presidents. Were you scared then? Or was their liberal disposition agreeable enough to your own that you over-looked their rather scumbag and vile behavior? Like Mr. Billy Clinton and his Wife and some of the folks they pardoned. Or even Obama.

Then again I know you're a super-liberal Old but Slow. An old school leftist hippie wanting hard drugs decriminalized and the like. I'm agreeable on pot and voted for it. I'll never be agreeable on opiates. I've read too much on the behavior of opiate addicts.

My mother is a Mexican. She didn't dislike Arpaio. Fact is Arpaio was a reaction to an extreme problem with illegal immigration. The man himself wasn't some of kind of drug dealing criminal. He was a hardass old sheriff of the like that would have been viewed well by people that wanted crimes taken care of including illegal immigration. He's an old man now. The people voted him into office. The state overlooked him for years allowing his form of punishment to be enacted. Locking him up at this point after you let him do what he did for many, many years was rubbish to begin with. It's like saying, "You were useful at one time, Old Man. But now our policies have changed and you're a criminal. Time to lock you up like the people you locked up." Let the old man go into the past. He doesn't have long on this earth. He's the last of an old breed of Sheriff we'll likely not see again.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Sun Aug 27, 2017 3:22 pm

Arpaio is a dick that hopefully gets his ass kicked by Mexicans, illegal one's hopefully.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Sun Aug 27, 2017 9:11 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:I see. Yes, Trump is probably a bit "racist" like your father. I don't believe that is racist. I believe that is ethnocentric and prejudiced.

Trump is right on immigration. It needs to be limited. Other nations have far more stringent immigration requirements, yet Trump wants to clean up immigration and he's a racist? Give me a break. We need immigration enforcement. If the government (left and right) hadn't forced this down our throat for so long (NAFTA and all the other free trade agreements), they wouldn't have had this type of reaction. When you read up extensively on what is occurring with immigration, you see between the unchecked immigration at our borders and the H1B visa program the job market in America is under serious pressure.

The increase in demand for goods and services from the population increase isn't being offset by the downward pressure in wages from the increased supply of job seekers. The H1B visa program is creating an international competition for wages in the tech industry that is driving wages down. How can an American worker used to a certain standard of living compete with an Indian, Chinese, or Russian worker that sees a lower wage as a serious upgrade to their wage scale? You have American workers competing against Indian, Chinese, Russian, and other foreign workers that will take a lower wage. This is purposely being orchestrated by powerful tech companies to ensure a global labor pool drawing from poorer nations that will accept a lower wage due to the corruption of their government. Makes it hard to maintain the American standard of living if you're competing against the Russian, Indian, and Chinese standard of living in the job market.

Yet the focus has become instead on the President's words about immigrants rather than a real discussion of the economic aspects of immigration. You will notice the smarmy liberals talking about immigrants doing "jobs no one wants", especially when speaking about immigrants from Latin America. And yet that is somehow not "racist." There is no discussion of the effect of immigration on the construction industry or the tech industry because very powerful companies want to ensure that nothing damages their global labor pool.


Huge difference between the environmental circumstances my dad was raised in vs. Donald Trump. My dad was born in 1925, in a nearly all white community in a remote part of southeastern Washington. That's not an excuse, it's simply some background. Conversely, Donald Trump was born a full two decades later, in 1946. He was a teenager-early 20's during the civil rights movement.

Much like George Wallace, my father changed his attitudes with regard to race relations prior to his untimely death in 1985. I see no resemblance between Donald Trump and my father with regard to the subject we're discussing.

I agree with some of Trump's immigration policy initiatives, but he has not made his case for his wanting to slash the number of overall immigrants permitted into this country. For one, I do not feel that the simple fact that an applicant has family in this country should be a basis for their acceptance. But his proposal to slash by some 50% the total number of immigrants admitted is not supported by any factual reasoning. IMO it should be proportional to population, and in line with other western nations, such as those in Australia and Canada, of which he's touting his reforms as having taken their roots from.

But most of all, I despise Trump because he is demonizing immigrants. Most illegal immigrants are scared to death of authorities, afraid that they'll be discovered and deported if they so much as get pulled over for a traffic offense, and are therefore less likely to commit crimes than are legal residents. They are not the crime ridden drug addicts Trump is making them out to be. I say this because at least 70% of my crew are immigrants, and consequently, nearly all of my close friends were not born in this country. I felt so badly for them when Trump was elected as they thought that the country was rejecting them, even though nearly all were legal residents. It was all I could do to convince them that they weren't hated.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Old but Slow » Sun Aug 27, 2017 10:16 pm

Bravo, Mark. My respects.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:19 am

No, Trump is NOT a racist because he wants to "fix" immigration. Just because someone wants to choke off illegal Immigration as much as possible is NO REASON to label that person a racist. I also totally disagree with those who call people racists if the call illegal immigrants exactly what they are, illegal immigrants. Most could have gotten legal documents years ago but they didn't want to, they have all been waiting for the ANMESTY that they just knew was going to come, only this time, too many people said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

I don't care about the so-called "dreamers" (every time I hear that term I want to throw up) they have been a HUGE DRAIN on the federal, state, and local communities just sucking up millions and billions of tax dollars that should have been spent on citizens that were born right here in America, LEGALLY. Oh, don't punish the kids for the crimes of their parents. So, we are supposed to REWARD them?? Again, at the expense of people, especially children of American Citizens, born and raised here.

There are REAL RACISTS out there, you saw them in Charlottesville marching with their torches and chanting their vile slogans. You weaken your argument against real racists when you label other people racist who are only saying what the law of the land is.

I have always been liberal on some issues and yet conservative in other issues but more of a center-left or center-right. That is why people who have swung waay over to the right or left just turn me off.

Extremists just can't be negotiated with, they always, I mean ALWAYS want things to all go their way, no compromise at all. Now, I can understand taking a stand on a particular issue and stating that you are only willing to compromise to a certain extent, and then no further. But these extremists today, the TEA Party yaywhose call any GOP lawmaker who wants to reach across party lines a RINO.

With Trump having so many problems with the leadership of the party that nominated him you would think that the leadership of the DNC would step into the breach and let the Donald know that he can rack up all kinds of WINS if he partners with the democrats to enact the PROGRESSIVE AGENDA that Trump ran on and that his rabid dog supporters are expecting him to sign in to law (or repeal as the case may be) but up until now he has been partnering with the very people who want the very opposite that he ran on.

So, democrats, I have to ask you, are you content to hope that Trump just fails or is replaced by Pence who might be a bit more honest but would be more able to enact many of the programs that Trump himself has torpedoed with his ill-timed tweets. Don't expect a Pence to make the same stupid mistakes Trump has made, although he will make his own they probably would be a catastrophic to Pence's right-wing ultra religious agenda of turning this nation into a Christian Theocracy.

Unfortunately, Trump not finishing his term of office (as much as I would want him gone) could end up falling in to one of those "BE CAREFULL WHAT YOU WISH FOR, YOU JUST MIGHT GET IT." There has even been threats of a civil war should he be impeached, keep in mind, he could not be impeached unless it was instigated by the GOP.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:19 am

No, Trump is NOT a racist because he wants to "fix" immigration. Just because someone wants to choke off illegal Immigration as much as possible is NO REASON to label that person a racist. I also totally disagree with those who call people racists if the call illegal immigrants exactly what they are, illegal immigrants. Most could have gotten legal documents years ago but they didn't want to, they have all been waiting for the ANMESTY that they just knew was going to come, only this time, too many people said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

I don't care about the so-called "dreamers" (every time I hear that term I want to throw up) they have been a HUGE DRAIN on the federal, state, and local communities just sucking up millions and billions of tax dollars that should have been spent on citizens that were born right here in America, LEGALLY. Oh, don't punish the kids for the crimes of their parents. So, we are supposed to REWARD them?? Again, at the expense of people, especially children of American Citizens, born and raised here.

There are REAL RACISTS out there, you saw them in Charlottesville marching with their torches and chanting their vile slogans. You weaken your argument against real racists when you label other people racist who are only saying what the law of the land is.

I have always been liberal on some issues and yet conservative in other issues but more of a center-left or center-right. That is why people who have swung waay over to the right or left just turn me off.

Extremists just can't be negotiated with, they always, I mean ALWAYS want things to all go their way, no compromise at all. Now, I can understand taking a stand on a particular issue and stating that you are only willing to compromise to a certain extent, and then no further. But these extremists today, the TEA Party yaywhose call any GOP lawmaker who wants to reach across party lines a RINO.

With Trump having so many problems with the leadership of the party that nominated him you would think that the leadership of the DNC would step into the breach and let the Donald know that he can rack up all kinds of WINS if he partners with the democrats to enact the PROGRESSIVE AGENDA that Trump ran on and that his rabid dog supporters are expecting him to sign in to law (or repeal as the case may be) but up until now he has been partnering with the very people who want the very opposite that he ran on.

So, democrats, I have to ask you, are you content to hope that Trump just fails or is replaced by Pence who might be a bit more honest but would be more able to enact many of the programs that Trump himself has torpedoed with his ill-timed tweets. Don't expect a Pence to make the same stupid mistakes Trump has made, although he will make his own they probably would be a catastrophic to Pence's right-wing ultra religious agenda of turning this nation into a Christian Theocracy.

Unfortunately, Trump not finishing his term of office (as much as I would want him gone) could end up falling in to one of those "BE CAREFULL WHAT YOU WISH FOR, YOU JUST MIGHT GET IT." There has even been threats of a civil war should he be impeached, keep in mind, he could not be impeached unless it was instigated by the GOP.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:08 pm

Seahawks4Ever wrote:No, Trump is NOT a racist because he wants to "fix" immigration. Just because someone wants to choke off illegal Immigration as much as possible is NO REASON to label that person a racist. I also totally disagree with those who call people racists if the call illegal immigrants exactly what they are, illegal immigrants. Most could have gotten legal documents years ago but they didn't want to, they have all been waiting for the ANMESTY that they just knew was going to come, only this time, too many people said ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!


It's not just Trump's stance on immigration that leads me to believe that he's a racist. It's a combination of things, including but not limited to, statements he's made regarding immigration.

I support cutting off illegal immigration, but not the way Trump is going about it, ie erecting a wall, telling Mexico that they're going to pay for it (then asks Congress to fund it), then demonizes all immigrants by suggesting that they're nothing but a bunch of drug smuggling criminals.

Plus it's not just illegal immigrants Trump is trying to cut off. He's proposing to slash in half the number of LEGAL immigrants admitted. He has not made his case for wanting such restrictive limitations on LEGAL immigration, and until he does, I will remain opposed to such proposals.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Old but Slow » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:23 pm

Trump is not exactly known for constancy, so it is not hard to imagine him taking a U-turn if he gets mad enough at the GOP. I would applaud any moves he makes to address infrastructure, for example.

In the past he has supported single-payer health, abortion, and more, so it is not out of the realm of the possible. But, he still scares me. He is unstable and volatile.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:16 pm

Old but Slow wrote: But, he still scares me. He is unstable and volatile.


I'm not saying that there's nothing to be scared of with regard to Trump's personality, but I do want to leave you and others with this thought: If we're scared of what he might do, just imagine what our adversaries must be thinking. An unpredictable lunatic with his finger on the button of the largest, most powerful military force in the world has got to send shivers through their spines, and keep them from taking risks they might otherwise take if someone more predictable like Obama were in the White House.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue Aug 29, 2017 3:59 am

Sorry but I don't see our having an "unpredictable lunatic with his finger on the button" as a deterrent to the harm those countries that are so inclined would do us. Other than perhaps Kim Jong Un (who speaks the same "language") I think those working against American interests in the world see this as a time of unprecedented opportunity, especially Russia, who worked so hard to bring all this about.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:35 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Sorry but I don't see our having an "unpredictable lunatic with his finger on the button" as a deterrent to the harm those countries that are so inclined would do us. Other than perhaps Kim Jong Un (who speaks the same "language") I think those working against American interests in the world see this as a time of unprecedented opportunity, especially Russia, who worked so hard to bring all this about.

This right here^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^And he won't even say a bad word about them to boot. Chilling
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:43 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Sorry but I don't see our having an "unpredictable lunatic with his finger on the button" as a deterrent to the harm those countries that are so inclined would do us. Other than perhaps Kim Jong Un (who speaks the same "language") I think those working against American interests in the world see this as a time of unprecedented opportunity, especially Russia, who worked so hard to bring all this about.


I didn't see China agreeing to sanctions of North Korea when Obama was in power. I don't think that they view this period of time as their big opportunity. They are clearly nervous.

Unless they can prove collusion with regards with interfering with the election, I don't see a lot of difference between Trump's snuggling up with the Russians and the Clinton's cozy relationship with red China, and constitutes one of the reasons why I didn't vote for either one of them. Had Hillary been elected, it would have been China that would be regarding this period of time as an unprecedented opportunity.

Both Trump and Clinton are corrupt, and this choice we had of choosing between the lesser of two evils (Clinton) was to me unacceptable. The lesser of the two evils is still evil.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:09 am

Every choice we make can be seen as a "lesser of two evils", from taking aspirin for a headache to fluoridating our what to driving to work. The lesser, to whatever degree it actually is lesser, of any two evils is still the right choice to make.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:55 am

Except there are plenty of arguments for and against which of our two abhorrent candidates were the lesser of two evils. Pretty much dead even with those two.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Tue Aug 29, 2017 12:02 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Every choice we make can be seen as a "lesser of two evils", from taking aspirin for a headache to fluoridating our what to driving to work. The lesser, to whatever degree it actually is lesser, of any two evils is still the right choice to make.


Not if you had a 3rd choice that didn't involve any known evil at all, which is the option I chose.

And yea, Mack, those two major party candidates were far and away our worst two choices in my recollection. The Dems got what they deserved when they rigged their process in favor of Hillary. Perhaps they can teach the R's how to rig theirs so we don't end up with an additional 4 years of Donald Trump. And to think that these are the same Dems that are whining about the general election being rigged....
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:29 pm

I hadn't thought about it that way. I'm sure it is easy to overlook their own transgression once the opposing party's candidate is in office. Despite all that is going on, this nation is still a great place to be, and it amazes me that this nation couldn't come up with a better candidate from it's two leading parties. Fingers crossed this past election and current presidency bring some sanity back to the whole process.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Tue Aug 29, 2017 2:50 pm

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:I hadn't thought about it that way. I'm sure it is easy to overlook their own transgression once the opposing party's candidate is in office. Despite all that is going on, this nation is still a great place to be, and it amazes me that this nation couldn't come up with a better candidate from it's two leading parties. Fingers crossed this past election and current presidency bring some sanity back to the whole process.


Yuppers. The press seems to forget about details like that, too, and won't draw a comparison between Trump and Russia vs. the Clintons and China because it might dilute their primary objective of running Trump out of town. Can't say as I blame them as he deserves to be ran out of town IMO. After that horrible performance of his following Charlottesville, I'm not making anymore Constitutional arguments against impeachment. I'm ready to impeach him based on general principles.

I'm fully convinced that had Hillary been elected, she'd be up to her panties in some sort of a scandal, more than likely something to do with China, and with all the trouble brewing on that side of the globe, it could very well have put us in greater danger than the one we face today with Trump's unpredictable finger on the button.

Although they can't help but nominate better candidates than they did during this past cycle, I don't hold out too much hope for the R's or the D's. That's one of the reasons why I voted for Johnson, as I was hoping that the Libertarians would be able to get some traction from disenchanted voters such as myself.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:47 pm

Trump is not unstable. He's a brash loud mouth, but you can be sure he does not make decisions without thought and design. He thinks about them, talks about them with his advisers (the ones he trusts), then makes moves supported by Twitter tirades and the like. If there is one thing you can be sure, Trump is too much of a narcissist to destroy the world. If he destroyed the world or started a major war without real military support, how would he keep his ratings so high and feed his narcissistic need for attention?

I'm not worried about Trump pushing the button or any such stupidity. The man has not made brash moves in his life. Trump's entire life from his marriages to his children to his finances are orchestrated as he can make it. The man orchestrates his image, every part of it including the brash loudmouth part. He knows what he's doing and he's not some unhinged mad man making moves no one can understand. All his moves are careful and orchestrated to accomplish certain things, which I believe have been successful, mainly at diverting attention away from policy moves. He won the Presidency by diverting the anti-Trump crusaders with Twitter, whlie giving cogent, intelligent speeches to working class people in the swing states. All very orchestrated moves that proved successful.

Sounds like so few of you know anything about Trump other than what you're spoonfed by the media. That's fine. I usually don't know jack squat about presidential candidates but what I read. It so happens this particular presidential candidate I followed extensively prior to his ascendance. I keep hearing he was a bad businessman. That is total rubbish. The man survived several real estate busts that destroyed many other businessmen. He's an excellent businessman that built an empire on the Trump name known worldwide. His filing for bankruptcy doesn't mean he's a bad businessperson anymore than Steve Jobs getting fired from Apple or Walt Disney going bankrupt several times mean either were bad at business. Creating, building, and maintaining businesses is extremely difficult and he's been one of the best real estate moguls in America for years, especially in the New York market.

Trump's a loud mouth. Trump's a narcissist. Trump's an old cantankerous man who speaks like an old New Yorker about non-white folk. He's also carefully built his family name. He's a very smart businessman. He's been a supporter of left and right wing causes. He's not much of a war monger or the like. Never much has been. He won't back down if pushed, but he won't go looking to start wars. Wars hurt his business.

I didn't vote for the man for president. I don't think he should be president. But I'm amazed at how many of you have been so manipulated by the media as to think Trump isn't under control. He very much is and always has been. There are few people in the world as controlled and careful as Donald Trump.

I'll tell you right now he will do his four years (maybe 8) and leave office just like every other President since FDR. Stop letting the President wind you up so much. He's just a man. This particular one enjoys getting people wound up. Stop bringing him joy by feeding his narcissism. I wish the media and triggered pussies on the left would stop concerning themselves with his Tweets, so he would have to actually engage in policy decisions.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:23 pm

RiverDog wrote:Huge difference between the environmental circumstances my dad was raised in vs. Donald Trump. My dad was born in 1925, in a nearly all white community in a remote part of southeastern Washington. That's not an excuse, it's simply some background. Conversely, Donald Trump was born a full two decades later, in 1946. He was a teenager-early 20's during the civil rights movement.


Not really much of a difference. New York is an incredibly racist city. Every New Yorker I talk to that grew up in the 60s, 70s, and 80s tells me about the "stay in your neighborhood" attitude of New York City. I still remember sitting with an Irish-German New Yorker about the same age as myself. This guy was telling me that the N-word needed to stay in their neighborhood. If they showed up in his neighborhood, that wasn't going to be tolerated. I heard this from all sides when meeting New Yorkers. Whites didn't go in the black neighborhoods, blacks didn't go in white neighborhoods. No one liked or trusted the cops, black or white. This Irish-German guy told me if the cops came around, they would harass him and his friends.

This is the New York Trump grew up in. So this idea that he didn't grow up with a lot of racial preconceptions is pretty false. New York was a very racist and segregated city. I'd bet money his father ensured he knew that you stayed with your own.

I'm also certain Trump learned to change as well. Trump has supported minorities in this nation with money and time. He was a known supporter of the NAACP in New York. This Trump is a racist is recent. In my nearly 30 years of following Trump's career since I read his book The Art of the Deal at age 16, he was not known as a racist. He was in fact publically known as a very tolerant guy mingling with all manner of people of varying backgrounds. If he's a racist, why he is supporting so many black celebrities, athletes, and the like in various ventures and at his businesses? Explain this to me. Explain why Trump didn't become a racist until he started running for president? How does a man as public as Trump has been in one of the biggest cities in the world avoid being branded as a racist until the left wing liberals decided to do so because he was their opponent? Explain that to me.

I've followed Trump a lot more closely than you have. I have no reason to believe the man is a racist.

Much like George Wallace, my father changed his attitudes with regard to race relations prior to his untimely death in 1985. I see no resemblance between Donald Trump and my father with regard to the subject we're discussing.


Likely you see no resemblance because Trump was never known as a racist to begin with until he ran for president, thus didn't need to change.

I agree with some of Trump's immigration policy initiatives, but he has not made his case for his wanting to slash the number of overall immigrants permitted into this country. For one, I do not feel that the simple fact that an applicant has family in this country should be a basis for their acceptance. But his proposal to slash by some 50% the total number of immigrants admitted is not supported by any factual reasoning. IMO it should be proportional to population, and in line with other western nations, such as those in Australia and Canada, of which he's touting his reforms as having taken their roots from.

But most of all, I despise Trump because he is demonizing immigrants. Most illegal immigrants are scared to death of authorities, afraid that they'll be discovered and deported if they so much as get pulled over for a traffic offense, and are therefore less likely to commit crimes than are legal residents. They are not the crime ridden drug addicts Trump is making them out to be. I say this because at least 70% of my crew are immigrants, and consequently, nearly all of my close friends were not born in this country. I felt so badly for them when Trump was elected as they thought that the country was rejecting them, even though nearly all were legal residents. It was all I could do to convince them that they weren't hated.


Half my family is Mexican. My Mexican mother has seen first hand what Trump is talking about working in a public hospital. She watched Mexican immigrants coming across the border solely to have their children in American hospitals to get social benefits. The father of the baby would be standing by while the mother had the child not signing the birth certificate to ensure maximum social benefits and his income couldn't be tracked. This kind of stuff not at all uncommon.

I'm sorry it's come to this. But sometimes you have to take an extreme stance when something needs to be taken care of. You can't take a reasonable stance and get anything done in this country. I have never seen any president take a moderate stance and get anything done in this country. Even when Obama was pushing Obamacare, it was always how many poor people would be insured. How many Americans would be uninsured. There was no discussion about how many younger Americans voluntarily didn't buy insurance because they didn't feel they needed it and how large a portion of the uninsured were made up of people that voluntarily did not purchase insurance. It was all about helping the poor people.

You're always going take an extreme stance in this country to make something happen. It's how things get done. So of course Trump is going to take the bombastic approach to immigration to push the issue.

I work with a lot of immigrants myself. I told them to calm down, Trump is not going to deport you all or anything of the kind. I explained that you go over the top to hit the middle ground in this country. It's the only way to get things done. Trump's talk is to push a particular agenda. He'll hit hard, push it hard, make it seem far worse than it is, then strike middle ground at some point. So far I've been right. There's been some increase in enforcement, but Trump is now open to some discussion.

You're one of people I figured would get what Trump's angle was. He's a salesman. This is how he works when negotiating a deal. Push to get as much as he can, make it sound like he's getting screwed, then meet somewhere in the middle after negotiation. This is how he will do things. How he has always done things.

That travel ban was nothing more than a Saudi Arabia-Israel approved bone thrown to his anti-immigration supporters. I figured you knew those nations on that list were under economic assault by Saudi Arabia and were the enemies of Saudi Arabia. I knew it the first time I saw the list of nations on the travel ban. Somalia is being undermined by Saudia Arabia because of oil reserves in the nation Saudi Arabia doesn't want a stable Somalia to take advantage of. So they fund the Musliim Extremist movement in that nation to keep the place unstable. Iran and Syria Shia and enemies of Sunnia Saudi Arabia. Yemen is a small nation with insurgent activity as an add on. You didn't see any of the major Muslim nations other than Iran on that list. No Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan, or Afghanistan, none of the major terrorist creators and funders. You realized the travel ban was a token attempt to show action to stop Islamic militants? The most important supporters of Islamic militants weren't even on the list.

I don't get it on Mexica. Americans read stories about the Mexican drug cartel and murders on a level unheard of here, yet think we don't need to do something about cutting off Mexico? Latin America is in a bad way. We can't save them by taking them all in. We have to force them to fix the problem, not give them an out. We need a "wall" to cut off Mexico as far as I'm concerned. Not a literal wall, but some kind of effort other than a token effort to cut those nations off. When do you force a people to clean up their mess before they bring it to your house? My mother lives in El Paso, right next to Juarez. It's bad. The crime is very bad. She watched it grow worse with no other change than an increase in the number of Latin American (mainly Mexican) immigrants. This was a 2nd generation Mexican seeing Mexican criminals coming across the border when it used to be good, hard working Mexicans looking for a better life like her parents. Drugs have taken a terrible toll on Latin America. Until they choose a different path in Latin America, things are not going to go well and we need to close that off.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Wed Aug 30, 2017 1:34 am

Not really much of a difference. New York is an incredibly racist city.

New York has been and always will be one of the most diverse cities in the world, with more languages spoken in the city than there is in the Olympics. Not so with the environment that my dad came from, which was almost entirely white and with no foreign languages spoken. He was isolated with very little direct contact with minorities and had only other people's experiences and opinions by which to base his opinions on race on. Even when he was in the Navy during WW2, it was a segregated force so he had very few if any personal interactions with blacks or other minorities. It was only in the late 60's after me and my brother started bringing over friends of ours that he began to "see the light." My dad was very much a slave of the white male mindset of those times. He gained his consciousness in the Great Depression, not in the civil rights era as Trump did. I'm not excusing dad's racist attitude, just that there was a better explanation for it than there is for Trump's.

As I've stated before, I agree with many of Trump's immigration initiatives, and with the exception of the wall, applaud efforts to curtail illegal immigration. My biggest beef is with his proposal to reduce LEGAL immigration by 50%. I do not think he has made his case and don't think that the economic impacts of such a reduction have been fully appraised.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby burrrton » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:28 am

Aaaaaaaaand... Trump is pissing off Republicans just as much as Democrats.

Not that it matters with the absolute derangement over him on both sides, but this is just as I predicted.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 10:00 am

Here is the thing. The actual fact that Rump is in the white house after the majority of people voted against it focuses now are directed to congressmen and house reps who's jobs are on the line in a year from now. Those that are running for re-election are walking a slippery slope and the American public (more than EVER) is watching what each and every one of these people do.

There is going to be a huge turnover in both the House and Senate, and rightfully so. Why they don't have term limits is a travesty. See McConnel (AKA Ninja Turtle #4)
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 5:03 pm

Thanksgiving is coming.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Thu Sep 14, 2017 8:25 pm

Largent80 wrote:Here is the thing. The actual fact that Rump is in the white house after the majority of people voted against it focuses now are directed to congressmen and house reps who's jobs are on the line in a year from now. Those that are running for re-election are walking a slippery slope and the American public (more than EVER) is watching what each and every one of these people do.

There is going to be a huge turnover in both the House and Senate, and rightfully so. Why they don't have term limits is a travesty. See McConnel (AKA Ninja Turtle #4)


You might be right about the House, but the numbers for a Dem take over in the Senate simply aren't there. Far fewer R's are up for re-election and a number of those are untouchable, winning their past race by 60%+ and hail from red states. The Dems opportunity in the Senate was in 2016, but Hillary marched them off a cliff.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:45 pm

RiverDog wrote:New York has been and always will be one of the most diverse cities in the world, with more languages spoken in the city than there is in the Olympics. Not so with the environment that my dad came from, which was almost entirely white and with no foreign languages spoken. He was isolated with very little direct contact with minorities and had only other people's experiences and opinions by which to base his opinions on race on. Even when he was in the Navy during WW2, it was a segregated force so he had very few if any personal interactions with blacks or other minorities. It was only in the late 60's after me and my brother started bringing over friends of ours that he began to "see the light." My dad was very much a slave of the white male mindset of those times. He gained his consciousness in the Great Depression, not in the civil rights era as Trump did. I'm not excusing dad's racist attitude, just that there was a better explanation for it than there is for Trump's.

As I've stated before, I agree with many of Trump's immigration initiatives, and with the exception of the wall, applaud efforts to curtail illegal immigration. My biggest beef is with his proposal to reduce LEGAL immigration by 50%. I do not think he has made his case and don't think that the economic impacts of such a reduction have been fully appraised.


Isolated is different from actively taught to be racist like in New York. There were areas where you could mix, but the burrows in New York were very segregated. You were actively taught in New York to stick with your own. You didn't cross neighborhood lines. There's a movie that shows this type of environment called A Bronx Tale about an Italian kid dating a black girl. You see it quite often in films about New York prior to the 60s and 70s. I'm not going to say New York was the South, but it was a very segregated actively racist city. You stayed with your own and that was the teaching and expectation. I'm fairly certain Trump is a lot more tolerant than many from his era given he's been supportive of the NAACP and other organizations that have promoted people of different ethnicities. He also has also treated very well people of differing backgrounds at his hotels and businesses. He's actively promoted people of other genders and backgrounds. Even his Miss Universe pageant had many non-white winners.

This idea you have that the diversity somehow meant the people weren't racist is not true. That was a very racist, segregated city.

My grandparents and parents came from a similar environment as your father. That tends to make you less of a racist because you don't deal with minorities, thus you don't clash with them on a daily basis. Not having folks of other ethnicities around should leave you more open-minded when you finally meet some as you have zero experience with them.

Suffice it to say, my point is that Trump did not become this racist figure until he ran for president. Then everything he said or did was parsed for any way to take a snippet and spin it into a racist message for the masses. Just as the left does with every single Republican president they can. As far as Trump's comments about Mexicans and Latins, I believe those comments were taken out of proportion to what he was trying to say. I believe there is a lack of acknowledgment by liberal groups of the degree of crime directly related to and attributable to minority groups and immigration specifically.

We like to put out specials about how dangerous gangs like the MS-13 and the Mexican Drug Cartels are without asking the question, "How did they get here?" The answer is an unpleasant one. They immigrated here and brought an immense amount of crime and chaos to this nation. I believe Trump understands the majority of Latin folks are not criminals, but he's not wrong to say we don't get a lot of Mexico and Latin America's worst as well. Latin America is a pipeline of criminals to America even if only 1 to 2% of the Latin immigrants are involved in crime given the sheer number coming over.

I even saw certain LGBT people tripping about Trump. This guy doesn't give a flying crap about what homosexuals are doing. He's not particularly religious. I saw certain left wingers acting like he was some religious conservative against LGBT rights. It was ridiculous.

It was funny to see Trump going to church during the elections. Man never much went to church or talked about his faith prior to the presidential election. I imagine he had to put on the show for the religious conservative vote.

When you become president, you become whatever the other side needs to paint you as to win votes. American politics has become ridiculous to the point I can't even pay attention to it much any longer. It's reach the point where the American people no longer engage in rational thought on candidates. It's all a popularity game where the aim is to paint the other person in a worse light at the right time to garner enough votes to win the election. Then once they take office, it's business as usual. It's a good thing our system is so strong or we might have real problems with this nuttiness.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby kalibane » Tue Sep 19, 2017 11:46 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:
Suffice it to say, my point is that Trump did not become this racist figure until he ran for president. Then everything he said or did was parsed for any way to take a snippet and spin it into a racist message for the masses. Just as the left does with every single Republican president they can. As far as Trump's comments about Mexicans and Latins, I believe those comments were taken out of proportion to what he was trying to say. I believe there is a lack of acknowledgment by liberal groups of the degree of crime directly related to and attributable to minority groups and immigration specifically.



Black people who were denied housing by him would disagree. Trump isn't the stereotypical caricature of a racist that a lot of people have invented in their minds (see: David Duke) simply because he has palled around with famous black people (feeds his narcissism. But his housing practices are the textbook definition of racism. His attacks on Obama before he ran for president were explicitly racist.

A lot of people like my Grandfather, harbor racial prejudice (which can lead to racism). Donald Trump is a blue ribbon racist. It doesn't matter whether he actively "hates" minorities in his heart. What matters is how his actions affect racial minorities when he has the power to affect them. And the fact that he's rather matter of fact about it all, it's arguably worse, because that's just how little he sees the humanity of the people he hurts, not even worth an emotion.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:45 pm

The US department of Justice sued Trump in 1973 for refusing to rent to blacks and Puerto Ricans and he has long associated himself with overt racists. This is in no way something that just came up when he ran for president. It's you and other Trump apologists that are the ones parsing every available snippet to try and paint him as a "victim" of a smear campaign.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 2:58 pm

Rump has grabbed all of his supporters by their pussy's, but his hands are so small, they didn't notice.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby RiverDog » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:57 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:My grandparents and parents came from a similar environment as your father. That tends to make you less of a racist because you don't deal with minorities, thus you don't clash with them on a daily basis. Not having folks of other ethnicities around should leave you more open-minded when you finally meet some as you have zero experience with them.


Not necessarily. Not having any contact with them left my dad subject to whatever other people told him about blacks. He succumbed to the contemporary while male thinking and developed a bias that lasted into his adulthood. Once he had contact with them and developed friendships, his thinking changed. He had a Japanese American friend that grew up in an internment camp, and I can remember my dad commenting about what an awful thing that was to subject them to. I doubt he felt that way in 1942. Once he was able to personalize it, he could overcome his bias.

The majority of Latin folks are not criminals, but he's not wrong to say we don't get a lot of Mexico and Latin America's worst as well. Latin America is a pipeline of criminals to America even if only 1 to 2% of the Latin immigrants are involved in crime given the sheer number coming over.


First off, the "sheer numbers" of legal immigrants is not as much as you are indicating. Our number of immigrants, about 14% of our population, is not out of line with other industrialized nations. Canada, for example, is comprised of 20% immigrants. Mexico only makes up 15% of all immigrants, India is second with 6%, followed by the Philippines and China at 5% each, so let's stop with this "sheer numbers" from Latin America nonsense. Secondly, illegal immigration is a security risk and needs to be dealt with, and if that's all he wanted to do, then I'd be supportive of him. But Trump doesn't want to just stop illegal immigration. He wants to cut down by half on all LEGAL immigrants, and has not made his case for such a drastic reduction. Additionally, he's demonizing all immigrants, particularly Hispanics, by giving us the impression that anyone seeking entry is part of a gang. His talk about a border wall, and telling Mexico that they're going to pay for it, is mean spirited. There's other, less obvious ways to secure our borders.

The majority of people I work with, and many if not most of my close friends, were not born in this country. After Trump was elected, they were genuinely scared, felt ashamed and embarrassed of their status as immigrants although all were bona fide American citizens. I had to convince many that the country, particularly white men like me, didn't hate them, that people voted for Trump for different reasons. It was heartbreaking. Donald Trump is the most divisive POTUS of our times.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Largent80 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:31 am

So Rump goes into the UN meeting stating we don't push our ideals and systems on any other country, then tells Venezuela that we will intervene if they try to push a socialism platform.

Follows that up with " we spend more on the UN than any other nation promoting peace"

Follows that up with We will totally destroy N. Korea and Rocket Man.

What a F-----g tool.
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Re: White House in Dissaray

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:45 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:The US department of Justice sued Trump in 1973 for refusing to rent to blacks and Puerto Ricans and he has long associated himself with overt racists. This is in no way something that just came up when he ran for president. It's you and other Trump apologists that are the ones parsing every available snippet to try and paint him as a "victim" of a smear campaign.


Getting sued is not proof. Anyone can sue. Yes. It is a smear campaign. I don't enjoy crap like you just pulled right here. Let's take a lawsuit from 1973 that he didn't lose and assume it was true because you know, if you get sued it must be true. It was also against his father and his company prior to his going on his own.

Also, Trump has been associated with lots of organizations that help against racism and lots of people that aren't racist as well as a lot of black entertainers. Does that make him not a racist? Or does your criteria change when it goes against your opinion. Are you aware he paid for Jennifer Hudson and her family to stay at his hotels when her brother was murdered?

Fact is you are a Trump hater that knew next to nothing about the man prior to the elections. Now you're hopping on the Trump hate bandwagon while being led around the nose by the media and just not liking the man's crass and rambunctious personality.

If you want to believe the lies, have at it. I can't change your mind. I know for myself Trump isn't a racist or even the extreme sexist some have painted him as (though he is a certain type of sexist which many rich men his age are). Trump Isn't interested in being a racist nor is he against the LGBT community other than what he's forced to do to satisfy a certain segment of the Republican base.

I'm not a Trump apologist. i said I did not vote for him. I do not think he is a good president. I think he is a narcissist, not a racist. I think he has a rich frat boy mentality when it comes to women, which is why he changes wives when they get too old. He's a certain type of sexist, just not the kind that wants to limit women or what not. But definitely the kind that thinks women should look and act a certain way and always look "hot". He's a strange man. I think he does love this country, just not more than he loves himself. I don't think that makes for a good president. He's a CEO used to getting his way. I don't think he has the patience for the office. Maybe his sales skills will help. He certainly sold the country on him as president, which was about as good a sales job as any salesman I've ever met.

Suffice it to say, you don't know crap about Trump. I'm not going to ask you to like the man as president. I don't think he should be president. But this crap of painting him as some insane racist and sexist that somehow won the White House is fricking ridiculous. And it is one of the major reasons why Clinton lost. If the Democrats and voters like yourself focus on the racist and sexism in the next election, you'll be just as disappointed with the result again as Trump smiles, Twitters a few comments to keep you focused on the narrative, then delivers speeches about many other issues people are concerned with that have nothing to do with race or gender or any of the other garbage. The issues that really won him the election the mainstream media ignored while they are so busy trying to build the crazy racist, sexist angle that didn't have enough substance to fill a shot glass.
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