c_hawkbob wrote:corporations do not pay the same taxes as everyone else, they get ridiculous tax breaks in the name of "boosting" economies both local and National. It's the "trickle down" con.
Some of it's a con, some of it is not a con. States usually grant the most tax breaks. The states have to compete for jobs, even countries now. Not providing tax breaks mean businesses move and states lose jobs. Most states primary forms of revenue generation are state income tax and sales tax. Both require lots of people working and spending money. It makes sense for states to provide tax incentives for large companies to come to their state. Cities compete as well.
The revenue imprint of a company on an economy is huge. Not sure why you think intelligent management of a growing business isn't much more beneficial for an economy and the people within it than the gain from taxing corporate taxes. I see people ragging on Amazon for not paying much in corporate income taxes, but Bezos takes almost all excess revenue and reinvests it in new business ventures or expansion creating more jobs, paying more fees and taxes for expansion, building, and purchasing equipment, and further expands the local economy he is a part of. Not to mention all the businesses that grow around a company like Amazon. A company like Amazon in your community is the corporate equivalent of a local genesis effect. On the first day there was Amazon, on the sixth day there were numerous businesses and jobs and civilization around it.
This type of expenditure I like and support. It's intelligent management of an economy.
Trickle Down without direct policies to back it up I don't like. Lowering tax rates with the assumption that the wealthy company or person will spend it on expansion is hogwash. Focused tax breaks to encourage expansion with the associated job growth and consumption expenditures is smart economics.
burrrton wrote:Re: Billionaires: rich people pay the same tax on their income everyone else does (actually much more). Are you arguing for taxing *wealth* every year or what??
I think a lot of people don't understand why the wealthy pay less in total taxes. They don't realize that Social Security and Medicare are taxed only up to a certain amount of earnings for everyone. And that capital gains do not accrue a social security or medicare tax. That is an almost 8.8 percent reduction in taxes for people making less than a 121 thousand last I looked for an individual. And that long-term capital gains is taxed at a flat rate of 20% with additional deductions for losses or businesses expenditures that are often already taxed with consumption tax, business and operation taxes, and the like.
When a smarmy liberal posts some article that includes only the income or federal taxes of an individual, they don't include the overall tax imprint of that individual to ensure their viewpoint of the wealthy being bad, evil manipulators is pushed. Most people don't dig deeper than a puddle into the real tax benefits a wealthy person provides a nation, state, or community. They only really find out once that person is driven off by draconian tax policies that lead to the destruction of states, nations, and the like, such as Europe had for many years.
Only stupid rich people (or those that are true patriots) pay taxes. They hide their true incomes in capitol gains and corporate profits and pay themselves a salary that's a small percentage of their real world income to pay taxes on. Putting all of the taxes on sales would eliminate all that BS.
There aren't as many tax breaks as you think c-bob. Wealthy people pay a lower percentage based on a reduced capital gains tax of 20% on investments held for over a year. Here is the reality:
This tax is not only for wealthy people, it's for anyone. I have gained from investments paying the lower capital gains tax. I'm pretty far from wealthy. I'm a working person that likes to invest. I spent the time to learn how to do it and how it works. It's not some corrupt, evil system that only wealthy people can benefit from. It's a fairly clear system any person can learn and benefit from.
I'd love to see where you're getting your information from. The whole tax breaks thing sounds great on paper. In reality it works a whole lot different if you read the tax codes. The number of people taking advantage of tax codes are not just the wealthy, at least not as wealthy as the pundits like to sensationalize. I know more than a few small businessmen that take advantage of writing off dinner meals, mileage, and the like as business expenses, thus reducing the amount of taxable income generated by their small business while not earning the huge sums normally associated with the wealthy. These tax breaks benefit small business owners in the 50 to 200 thousand dollar earnings a year as well. They usually do pay the standard pay rates on income, but are able to write down expenses not available to a working person. Not sure why this is a bad thing considering even after these business expenses, they're not earning more than working person, and often don't have the same quality benefits for the same low cost provided by larger businesses.
I think the largest discrepancies come from the 8.8% gap in medicare and social security payments many business people avoid paying because both of those are primarily paid only on earned income below a certain amount. An 8.8% gap is rather huge when you look at it as an aggregate between a working person and a business owner's taxes. This gap accounts for a lot of the percentage difference income paid.
I really wish we would educate people more on the inner workings of our tax codes. Sensationalizing the wealth disparity and encouraging a fight that is only going to lead to the kind of stagnation we saw in Europe and Canada for years is going to make people extremely unhappy in the long run if they ever have to find out that Europe and Canada's socialized systems don't work as well as they think, especially when you don't have a bigger country like us to sell to. We are the big dog economy in the world. As our economy so goes the world economy. We need American business to be robust and productive to keep the world economy healthy.