School Shooting in Broward, Florida

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School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:15 pm

Cue the anti gun nuts, "we need an assault rifle ban" they are yelling at the top of their lungs. We do NOT need any more gun laws, what we NEED to do is ENFORCE the laws already on the books.

I heard fellow students declare that the shooter was a bit "off" and that he like to talk about his gun collection. Now, I am sure there are a lot of 18-19 year olds that have and are proud of their budding gun and/or rifle collections, that does NOT mean they are about to go "postal".

Have you EVER met a teenager who was NOT a bit off?? I have even heard teenagers called "brain damaged" tongue in cheek. But, what I want to know is where were his parents?? They say he was kicked out of the school, why? and what for? Can we please have some real reporting?

This high school had 3k students and yet they had NO metal detectors, WHY?? Does this school district know what kind of times we are living in??

They should have been proactive and so does every school public or private need to take these threats seriously. But, banning LEGAL gun ownership just is NOT the answer. Especially in these times when our electorate may need to "alter or abolish" the federal government if they continue the "long train of abuses" it has been piling up... The 2nd. Amendment GUARANTEES all our other rights!!!
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 15, 2018 2:53 am

I pretty much have to agree with S4E. I haven't seen all the details about the circumstances surrounding the shooting, but if a high school that large did not have an effective security system that included metal detectors, then then administrators have some 'splaining to do. The shooter was a former student that had been expelled, so that right there should have been a red flag.

There's other measures out there besides banning guns that although could not entirely solve the problem, would be more effective than attempting to legislate our way out of the problem. I've heard a lot of teachers say that they want to be allowed to carry concealed firearms into their classrooms but are prohibited from doing so. If a teacher can qualify in a rigorous gun safety/active shooter training course, then I see no reason why they shouldn't.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:20 am

As a gun owner and former member of the NRA myself I'm not advocating taking any responsible gun owner's guns away but it should not be easier to buy, sell and operate a gun than a car. Tighter controls and greater accountability are absolutely in order.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:38 am

It's too late for gun control. People need to be on the lookout for behavior that leads to these types of things. That's all we have at this point, unless they turn every school into an airport or courthouse type screening which would be pretty costly and with teachers being woefully underpaid this will never happen.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Feb 15, 2018 6:53 am

Too late? For you maybe, but what about your kids? and grandkids? Something must be done, this is out of control.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:29 am

c_hawkbob wrote:As a gun owner and former member of the NRA myself I'm not advocating taking any responsible gun owner's guns away but it should not be easier to buy, sell and operate a gun than a car. Tighter controls and greater accountability are absolutely in order.


I don't know enough of the details of yesterday's shooting to offer an opinion. I understand that the weapon used was an AR-15, but was it a fully automatic version or a semi automatic? I support banning fully automatic weapons, but not semi automatic. We also don't know, or at least I don't know, how this kid was able to access the weapon or the substantial amount of armory he apparently had collected. Were all of his aquisitions legal? Did he violate any laws (other than the shooting itself)?
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Feb 15, 2018 7:32 am

RiverDog wrote: I support banning fully automatic weapons, but not semi automatic.


Why? Do you honestly thing a 40 round clip is reasonable because the gun in a semi? If you need more than 10 rounds for home defense you need some training anyway.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:29 am

Gun control should have happened DECADES ago. You don't get it. Gun manufacturers have had carte blanc to make and sell as many as they have wanted for so many years it has created a glut of guns THAT WILL NEVER BE CONTROLLED.

The Friggin NRA is at the head of the class for keeping this s*** going on for decades and now people worry about safety. It's like putting your head in the sand, pulling it out, a mass shooting happens and plunge goes the head back into the sand.

There are MILLIONS of guns out there, and there is zero way of controlling them.

The 2nd amendment has been used as a way for all of this to be enabled. It was created in different times and it's intentions have been interpreted wrongly for eons.

So, now all the guns are out there for stealing, purchasing new or any other method to obtain them. Mental health is another root cause of the problem of course, but the sheer number of available weapons is insane in this country, it's out of control, not IN control and never will be.
Last edited by Largent80 on Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:30 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Why? Do you honestly thing a 40 round clip is reasonable because the gun in a semi? If you need more than 10 rounds for home defense you need some training anyway.


The concern I would have is where do you draw the line? It's pretty easy to define a fully automatic weapon and determine that it does not have any legitimate purpose, but when you start talking about banning some semi automatic weapons you are forced to start getting more and more specific, such as ammo capacities, pistol grips, folding stocks, and so on. If we are to create meaningful laws, they have to be relatively easy to comprehend and not filled with a bunch of fine print that can be used against a person that has no intent of breaking any law.

I guess I'm not completely against the idea of banning some semi automatic weapons if they are proven to function in the same capacity as a fully automatic weapon (like the bump stock used in Vegas), but it's one of those slippery slope things that seems to have a mission creep type of process to them. First you ban a 40 round clip, then 20, then 10....
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:12 am

As a gun owner and former member of the NRA myself I'm not advocating taking any responsible gun owner's guns away but it should not be easier to buy, sell and operate a gun than a car.


I can have a new car in my garage before lunch. Stop with the hyperbole.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:24 am

I guess I'm not completely against the idea of banning some semi automatic weapons if they are proven to function in the same capacity as a fully automatic weapon (like the bump stock used in Vegas), but it's one of those slippery slope things that seems to have a mission creep type of process to them. First you ban a 40 round clip, then 20, then 10.


In theory, me, either (and I agree completely about bump stocks).

However, the problem is the people with "DO SOMETHING" disease mistake feel-good measures for actual solutions. As an example, would banning 40-round clips be the end of the world? No, but in practice, it's not going to noticeably improve the situation- four 10-round clips is functionally identical outside of the couple of seconds required to slam in a new one.

We have to accept that the genie is out of the bottle- there is no magic wand we can wave to make all guns disappear, so we need to start dealing with reality.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:45 am

Guns are being made right now. Those guns can be bought by ANYONE in this country including convicted felons so forget about background checks.

And really that isn't the biggest problem. The problem is that the 2nd amendment DOES NOT APPLY to this society we now live in, that is the end of this conversation.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:50 am

burrrton wrote:we need to start dealing with reality.


Largent80 wrote:Guns are being made right now. Those guns can be bought by ANYONE in this country including convicted felons so forget about background checks.

And really that isn't the biggest problem. The problem is that the 2nd amendment DOES NOT APPLY to this society we now live in, that is the end of this conversation.


LOL. Impeccable timing, there. If you believe either of the bolded items, yeah, that probably should be the end of the conversation for you.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:24 am

burrrton wrote:I can have a new car in my garage before lunch. Stop with the hyperbole.


Not without licence and registration and having a current licence to operate it proving that you, at some time in your life demonstrated to a competent, responsible individual that you were qualified to operate it. Also not without insurance providing some liability coverage should you harm someone with your car.

Suggesting the application of all of those same control measures to firearms is not hyperbole, it's an honest suggestion.

What's yours?
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:35 am

What's yours?


The same thing that made my workplace 2000-2013 one of the safest spots in the country: armed personnel.

Fair point about licensing- too many people today think buying a gun is easier than voting (etc), and I mistook your argument for one in that vein.

So a sincere question I'll ask:

This Cruz animal bought his firearm legally and passed a background check, etc- what would a gun safety course have done to stop him?
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:49 pm

burrrton wrote:In theory, me, either (and I agree completely about bump stocks).

However, the problem is the people with "DO SOMETHING" disease mistake feel-good measures for actual solutions. As an example, would banning 40-round clips be the end of the world? No, but in practice, it's not going to noticeably improve the situation- four 10-round clips is functionally identical outside of the couple of seconds required to slam in a new one.

We have to accept that the genie is out of the bottle- there is no magic wand we can wave to make all guns disappear, so we need to start dealing with reality.


Back in the 90's, the president of the NRA accused Bill Clinton being an accessory to murder because he claimed that Clinton and the Dems didn't really want to fix the problem, that the gun control issue was too valuable as a campaign issue. Obviously the NRA was over dramatizing it, but they do have a point as it seems that anytime a shooting happens that politicians fall all over themselves running to the nearest microphone or camera so they can be the first to get their mugs on national TV, even before basic facts of the incident are known. They're a bunch ambulance chasers, taking advantage of the hot blooded responses of grief and outrage in the hopes of harvesting their votes.

I'm for doing what's reasonable, perhaps some form of added restrictions of the type Cbob is talking about. One of the things that a lot of these shooters have in common is that they often times have built a huge arsenal of weapons, so if their was some form of at least registering weapons sales, you could send up a flag when someone is buying multiple weapons, ammo, etc.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Thu Feb 15, 2018 3:59 pm

Doing what's reasonable?....100 years too late?


Hahahahaha, good luck.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Thu Feb 15, 2018 4:31 pm

I'm for doing what's reasonable, perhaps some form of added restrictions of the type Cbob is talking about.


Again in theory, I am, too- I'm just loathe to pass Yet Another Law™ if it doesn't do anything to help these issues (and I think Bob's suggestion is a perfect illustration unless I'm missing some secondary effect of forcing murderers to take gun safety courses).

[edit- re-reading my post, it sounds a little snarky- I didn't mean it that way]
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:43 pm

burrrton wrote:Again in theory, I am, too- I'm just loathe to pass Yet Another Law™ if it doesn't do anything to help these issues (and I think Bob's suggestion is a perfect illustration unless I'm missing some secondary effect of forcing murderers to take gun safety courses).

[edit- re-reading my post, it sounds a little snarky- I didn't mean it that way]


Not sure why you'd think your post was snarky, but I'm glad you're sensitive to not hurting my feelings... :D

I don't like passing more laws, either. One of my favorite sayings is that if you pass enough laws, you'll make lawbreakers out of all of us.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Feb 15, 2018 10:51 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Not without licence and registration and having a current licence to operate it proving that you, at some time in your life demonstrated to a competent, responsible individual that you were qualified to operate it. Also not without insurance providing some liability coverage should you harm someone with your car.

Suggesting the application of all of those same control measures to firearms is not hyperbole, it's an honest suggestion.

What's yours?


I'd like to see licensing for firearms with the related training, but the gun lobby thinks it will turn into abusive regulation and criminalization. It's so difficult to trust the government at the moment, I can see why they fear it. I don't know. It seems like the 2nd Amendment is open to requiring someone to first train and show they are willing to put in the work to own a weapon. Fact is they already track guns and most weapons in this society and can do so with about anything. I don't see the point in being overly anal rather than running a program like Switzerland which requires people to act as a citizen soldiery and train for it. The base purpose of the 2nd Amendment is defense of all kinds allowing citizens to act as everything from national defense to personal defense to a check on the military power of the government. If these pro-2nd Amendment folks are for real they would be ensuring the citizens that will bear arms are trained to do so, not just as a sign of personal responsibility, but also for effective action in the exercise of their 2nd Amendment right.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Thu Feb 15, 2018 11:30 pm

Not sure why you'd think your post was snarky, but I'm glad you're sensitive to not hurting my feelings...


That was more for Bob, actually :). I didn't want to sound like I was being overly dismissive of his argument if I'd just not quite caught what he was trying to say and mischaracterized it.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:40 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:I'd like to see licensing for firearms with the related training, but the gun lobby thinks it will turn into abusive regulation and criminalization. It's so difficult to trust the government at the moment, I can see why they fear it.


That's one of my fears, too, and part of what I eluded to as "mission creep" when we start passing a lot of laws, especially ones that are as complex as the ones surrounding the banning of semi automatic weapons like the AR-15. Here's an excerpt that discusses the expired 1994 assault weapons ban that demonstrates what I'm talking about:

The AR-15 used to be illegal. President Bill Clinton’s assault weapons ban, which was in effect from 1994 to 2004, banned the AR-15 and other guns that were too similar to military-style weapons. However, this law did not prohibit Americans from owning semi-automatic weapons;1 it capped how many military features an individual gun could have. During the ban, a semi-automatic rifle like the AR-15 could legally have any one of the following features, as long as it didn’t have two or more of them: a folding stock (making the gun slightly easier to conceal), a pistol grip (making the weapon easier to hold and use), a bayonet mount, a flash suppressor (making it harder to see where shots are coming from), or a grenade launcher.

So from 1994-2004, it was OK to have an AR-15 so long as it didn't have two or more of certain specified features. How much sense does that make? Is the common layman going to know that if he puts a bayonet mount on his rifle that it would make it illegal? How many mass murders have been committed with a bayonet?

People can easily understand the difference between a fully automatic and semi automatic weapon. But once you start specifying certain attributes of a semi-automatic weapon that makes it either legal or illegal to own, it really confuses things.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:26 am

[quote="burrrton"]
[quote="Largent80"]Guns are being made right now. Those guns can be bought by ANYONE in this country including convicted felons so forget about background checks.

And really that isn't the biggest problem. The problem is that the 2nd amendment DOES NOT APPLY to this society we now live in, that is the end of this conversation.

LOL. Impeccable timing, there. If you believe either of the bolded items, yeah, that probably should be the end of the conversation for you.

Sorry to inform you but I am not alone in the view of the 2nd amendment being outdated. Malitia?????? The only malitia in the last 200 years is the motorcycle demons the Metal Malisha.

And ANYONE can buy a gun, prove it all wrong or stop with your smarmy attitude.

Also, the sad part is that after all of these shootings, the powers that be do nothing. They seem to just say, what a tragedy, then after a few weeks it's gone until the next one. Bump stocks my ass, get rid of all of these weapons and do it NOW.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:42 am

Largent80 wrote:Guns are being made right now. Those guns can be bought by ANYONE in this country including convicted felons so forget about background checks.

And really that isn't the biggest problem. The problem is that the 2nd amendment DOES NOT APPLY to this society we now live in, that is the end of this conversation.

LOL. Impeccable timing, there. If you believe either of the bolded items, yeah, that probably should be the end of the conversation for you.

Sorry to inform you but I am not alone in the view of the 2nd amendment being outdated. Malitia?????? The only malitia in the last 200 years is the motorcycle demons the Metal Malisha.

And ANYONE can buy a gun, prove it all wrong or stop with your smarmy attitude.

Also, the sad part is that after all of these shootings, the powers that be do nothing. They seem to just say, what a tragedy, then after a few weeks it's gone until the next one. Bump stocks my ass, get rid of all of these weapons and do it NOW.


It may seem outdated now, but if we were ever to be invaded by a foreign country, that 2nd amendment would come in pretty handy. Do you remember the movie "Red Dawn"? Yea, cheesy and far fetched, but it could happen.

I agree with making it more difficult to obtain weapons, perhaps tighten up on the manufacturers, especially when it comes to these assault rifles and other military equipment that's being used in these mass murders, but let's forget about repealing the 2nd amendment, which is what you seem to be advocating.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:22 am

Who.....said anything about repealing anything?????.....Amendments can be amended you know. Fix it to mirror these times not the 1770's....Jeezus the world is so vastly different now. Of course nobody will do jack squat. And NO...red dawn is never going to happen and living in some sort of dream world where your gun is going to be the difference between life and death is like the ostrich. If someone really wants to kill you, they will.

I used to hunt and owned a gun for that purpose, and I gave it up in the 70's and haven't owned a gun since then and never will. We're doing fine, If you come through my door unwanted however you will receive a bear tipped crossbow arrow into the place your eye used to be, and then I'll cut off your junk. So, there's that.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/student-arre ... 16915.html
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:39 am

And ANYONE can buy a gun, prove it all wrong or stop with your smarmy attitude.


*sigh* You really don't know what you're talking about, do you?

Do some googling, and after you find out how wrong you were here, go research the jurisprudence surrounding the "militia" (and other) terminology. Pay close attention to "operative" vs "prefatory" clauses, and so on.

Bump stocks my ass, get rid of all of these weapons and do it NOW.


That'd be a neat trick!

Amendments can be amended you know.


This is correct- so what are you waiting for?
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:25 am

Interesting..

Someone contacted the FBI’s public tip line to alert it to Cruz’s behavior, according to a statement from the agency. The caller said this behavior included a “desire to kill people” and “the potential of him conducting a school shooting.”

“Under established protocols, the information provided by the caller should have been assessed as a potential threat to life. The information then should have been forwarded to the FBI Miami field office, where appropriate investigative steps would have been taken,” reads the statement. “We have determined that these protocols were not followed.”

Cruz was charged Thursday with 17 counts of premeditated murder.

Read the full FBI statement below:

On January 5, 2018, a person close to Nikolas Cruz contacted the FBI’s Public Access Line (PAL) tipline to report concerns about him. The caller provided information about Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting. Under established protocols, the information provided by the caller should have been assessed as a potential threat to life. The information then should have been forwarded to the FBI Miami field office, where appropriate investigative steps would have been taken. We have determined that these protocols were not followed for the information received by the PAL on January 5. The information was not provided to the Miami field office, and no further investigation was conducted at that time. FBI Director Christopher Wray said: “We are still investigating the facts. I am committed to getting to the bottom of what happened in this particular matter, as well as reviewing our processes for responding to information that we receive from the public. It’s up to all Americans to be vigilant, and when members of the public contact us with concerns, we must act properly and quickly. We have spoken with victims and families, and deeply regret the additional pain this causes all those affected by this horrific tragedy. All of the men and women of the FBI are dedicated to keeping the American people safe, and are relentlessly committed to improving all that we do and how we do it.”
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby c_hawkbob » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:37 am

Largent80 wrote:Interesting..

Someone contacted the FBI’s public tip line to alert it to Cruz’s behavior, according to a statement from the agency. The caller said this behavior included a “desire to kill people” and “the potential of him conducting a school shooting.”

“Under established protocols, the information provided by the caller should have been assessed as a potential threat to life. The information then should have been forwarded to the FBI Miami field office, where appropriate investigative steps would have been taken,” reads the statement. “We have determined that these protocols were not followed.”

Cruz was charged Thursday with 17 counts of premeditated murder.

Read the full FBI statement below:

On January 5, 2018, a person close to Nikolas Cruz contacted the FBI’s Public Access Line (PAL) tipline to report concerns about him. The caller provided information about Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting. Under established protocols, the information provided by the caller should have been assessed as a potential threat to life. The information then should have been forwarded to the FBI Miami field office, where appropriate investigative steps would have been taken. We have determined that these protocols were not followed for the information received by the PAL on January 5. The information was not provided to the Miami field office, and no further investigation was conducted at that time. FBI Director Christopher Wray said: “We are still investigating the facts. I am committed to getting to the bottom of what happened in this particular matter, as well as reviewing our processes for responding to information that we receive from the public. It’s up to all Americans to be vigilant, and when members of the public contact us with concerns, we must act properly and quickly. We have spoken with victims and families, and deeply regret the additional pain this causes all those affected by this horrific tragedy. All of the men and women of the FBI are dedicated to keeping the American people safe, and are relentlessly committed to improving all that we do and how we do it.”


That's just horrible, and completely inexcusable. Someone needs to face charges if that's true.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:39 am

That's just horrible, and completely inexcusable. Someone needs to face charges if that's true.


My God- no kidding. I shudder to think of the level of frustration this hoists onto families already grieving.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:55 am

Largent80 wrote:Who.....said anything about repealing anything?????.....Amendments can be amended you know. Fix it to mirror these times not the 1770's....Jeezus the world is so vastly different now. Of course nobody will do jack squat. And NO...red dawn is never going to happen and living in some sort of dream world where your gun is going to be the difference between life and death is like the ostrich. If someone really wants to kill you, they will.

I used to hunt and owned a gun for that purpose, and I gave it up in the 70's and haven't owned a gun since then and never will. We're doing fine, If you come through my door unwanted however you will receive a bear tipped crossbow arrow into the place your eye used to be, and then I'll cut off your junk. So, there's that.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/student-arre ... 16915.html


Actually they can't, you know. There is no provision in the Constitution for amending an amendment. You would have to repeal an amendment then replace it with another amendment. The only other way to get rid of an amendment that you don't like is something called a Constitutional Convention, in which case they throw out the entire Constitution and start over again...and I don't think that any of us would want something like that.

And as far as the Red Dawn scenerio ever happening, go ahead and believe what you want, but the fact is that neither one of us can predict what the world will look like 25, 50, or 100 years from now.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:57 pm

Largent80 wrote:Guns are being made right now. Those guns can be bought by ANYONE in this country including convicted felons so forget about background checks.

And really that isn't the biggest problem. The problem is that the 2nd amendment DOES NOT APPLY to this society we now live in, that is the end of this conversation.


You're saying an amendment that allows it's citizens to arm themselves in a society rife with crime and drug use, a government you think elected a president that colluded with a foreign power, that has to worry about terrorism, and is being monitored by law-enforcement agencies with the authorization of the government doesn't have a need for amendment that allows them to violently revolt to unseat the government should it be required? You say they don't need that?

Sorry to inform you but I am not alone in the view of the 2nd amendment being outdated. Malitia?????? The only malitia in the last 200 years is the motorcycle demons the Metal Malisha.

No, you're not alone. Just as the Founders of this nation dealt with a great many that wanted to stay part of Britain and accept the king's rule. It was about 5 to 10% of the population that pushed for liberty, the rest were like yourself saying stuff like "Everything's fine. It all seems ok. It's not affecting me, so it's ok. I feel free enough."

What's next? Get rid of the 1st Amendment because everything is fine right now and you're doing ok. You don't need to speak out that much. And it's ok if the government censors and controls language because hey, you're doing just fine.

The 2nd Amendment is now and always will be a very important check on government power. No matter how good the times, the American people should always have the ability to unseat their government by violent revolution should the need arise. That requires they be armed to have a chance of it. Words mean nothing if not backed by the power of violent revolution. The government can ignore you or disperse you as they have been doing for decades.

And ANYONE can buy a gun, prove it all wrong or stop with your smarmy attitude.

Really? My 13 year old niece can buy a gun without her parents consent or awareness from a legal source? Don't think so. There is an age requirement and a background check system. Have you not bought a gun recently? Anyone cannot buy a gun. You can't even sell guns across state lines without going through a dealer unless you want a call from the ATF. Learned that one first hand a long time ago. You can't buy a gun if you're a convicted felon.

Also, the sad part is that after all of these shootings, the powers that be do nothing. They seem to just say, what a tragedy, then after a few weeks it's gone until the next one. Bump stocks my ass, get rid of all of these weapons and do it NOW.

They don't do what you want them to do, but that doesn't mean they do nothing. A gun ban is not coming. The 2nd Amendment is an important check on government power. And is as important as 1st Amendment in ensuring the American people's are able to control their government.

This is why it's hard to take someone like you seriously. You're literally a liar. You are willing to lie to forward your political agenda. You show no desire to learn how the system truly works. You make outrageous, false statements about issues you seem to know very little about.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:06 pm

Largent80 wrote:Interesting..

Someone contacted the FBI’s public tip line to alert it to Cruz’s behavior, according to a statement from the agency. The caller said this behavior included a “desire to kill people” and “the potential of him conducting a school shooting.”

“Under established protocols, the information provided by the caller should have been assessed as a potential threat to life. The information then should have been forwarded to the FBI Miami field office, where appropriate investigative steps would have been taken,” reads the statement. “We have determined that these protocols were not followed.”

Cruz was charged Thursday with 17 counts of premeditated murder.

Read the full FBI statement below:

On January 5, 2018, a person close to Nikolas Cruz contacted the FBI’s Public Access Line (PAL) tipline to report concerns about him. The caller provided information about Cruz’s gun ownership, desire to kill people, erratic behavior, and disturbing social media posts, as well as the potential of him conducting a school shooting. Under established protocols, the information provided by the caller should have been assessed as a potential threat to life. The information then should have been forwarded to the FBI Miami field office, where appropriate investigative steps would have been taken. We have determined that these protocols were not followed for the information received by the PAL on January 5. The information was not provided to the Miami field office, and no further investigation was conducted at that time. FBI Director Christopher Wray said: “We are still investigating the facts. I am committed to getting to the bottom of what happened in this particular matter, as well as reviewing our processes for responding to information that we receive from the public. It’s up to all Americans to be vigilant, and when members of the public contact us with concerns, we must act properly and quickly. We have spoken with victims and families, and deeply regret the additional pain this causes all those affected by this horrific tragedy. All of the men and women of the FBI are dedicated to keeping the American people safe, and are relentlessly committed to improving all that we do and how we do it.”


This is why it will be impossible to stop the crazy. The FBI stops thousands of crimes every day, saves more lives than it loses, works tirelessly to protect Americans, and yet it misses one time and a tragedy occurs. That's how many people are trying to cause havoc and harm in American society every day on a large and small level because humans with broken minds filled with rage abound.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:20 am

It does seem that law enforcement in Florida had a lot of tips from people expressing concern about this POS. And there's a big controversy as to how a kid like that could legally purchase military style weapons, so no doubt there's going to be a reckoning in the Sunshine State. But hindsight's 20/20.

Just a couple of days ago, police busted a kid up in Everett that was planning a mass shooting. His own grandmother turned him in. Fortunetly police acted on the tip.

http://www.king5.com/article/news/crime ... -518703506

And even in my hometown, yesterday police arrested a kid that was planning on shooting up a high school:

http://www.fox13news.com/news/local-new ... -up-school

Someone posted on Facebook that a generation that school shootings shouldn't be all that surprising being that they're coming from a generation that thinks it's cool to eat laundry detergent. More so than a gun problem, we have a problem with this current generation of kids that started with Columbine.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:05 am

I agree with making it more difficult to obtain weapons, perhaps tighten up on the manufacturers, especially when it comes to these assault rifles and other military equipment that's being used in these mass murders


Feel-good measure:
DWLvpSSVMAAoUPw.jpg
DWLvpSSVMAAoUPw.jpg (76.61 KiB) Viewed 160 times
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:51 pm

Image

This is the face of a guy that doesn't give a flyin fuak about what gun it is. He's going to KILL...Get it?????.....GOING TO KILL, AND AS MANY AS HE CAN.

So it matters what gun it is??????.......

Ummmmmmm....NO....It matters that it is an available gun of any kind.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:00 pm

So it matters what gun it is??


Er, no- it doesn't. In fact, that's the opposite of my point.

The point is banning scary looking assault weapons is a meaningless gesture- the AR-15 is functionally *identical* to common hunting rifles (and actually I'm told many people hunt with AR-15s, although I never have).

Ummmmmmm....NO....It matters that it is an available gun of any kind.


Yup. So when are you going to do the Samantha Stevens 'tinka-tinka-tee' with your nose and make them all disappear?
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Old but Slow » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:08 pm

In a related matter, a year ago, 2/15/17 Trump signed one of the first, if not the very first, bill of his administration. The stand alone bill, that is, it was not part of another more expansive bill, made it legal for people with severe mental illness to buy guns. And now he is expressing his displeasure that the mentally ill can buy guns. Any signs of disconnect here?
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:23 am

Old but Slow wrote:In a related matter, a year ago, 2/15/17 Trump signed one of the first, if not the very first, bill of his administration. The stand alone bill, that is, it was not part of another more expansive bill, made it legal for people with severe mental illness to buy guns. And now he is expressing his displeasure that the mentally ill can buy guns. Any signs of disconnect here?


LOL! Good dig there, ObS!

And it's not the first time that Trump has done a complete 180, either. Perhaps it's due to his age, but his short term memory seems to fail him alot.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:24 am

"Very sad that the FBI missed all of the many signals sent out by the Florida school shooter,” Trump said in a Tweet. “This is not acceptable. They are spending too much time trying to prove Russian collusion with the Trump campaign — there is no collusion. Get back to the basics and make us all proud!”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... oter-says-‘too-much-time’-spent-on-russia-probe/ar-BBJfRXH?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

Did Trump really mean this, that he thinks there's a link between the amount of time the FBI is spending on the Russia investigation and their failure to respond to tips about the Florida shooter? Or am I missing something?
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:38 am

The stand alone bill, that is, it was not part of another more expansive bill, made it legal for people with severe mental illness to buy guns.


*sigh* It did no such thing, for Pete's sake.

The rule that was rescinded allowed the background check system to consult Social Security data to see if someone had received mental health benefits and deny them the right to purchase a gun based on that [edit- just remembered: there also was no appeal process].

Pretty easy to see the potential for abuse in that- even the ACLU opposed it.
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