School Shooting in Broward, Florida

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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:40 pm

Largent80 wrote:Come on down dude. See what's up for ya

Another one bites the dust. Without a gun.

I'll chop your friggin nut sack off and laugh as I do it.


Largent, honest question- you ok?
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:00 pm

Yeah I'm fine, just a little salty with some stuff going on. Need to do a moral inventory for sure.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:46 am

Largent80 wrote:Yeah I'm fine, just a little salty with some stuff going on. Need to do a moral inventory for sure.


Ok. I can be less salty, too.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Old but Slow » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:05 pm

It is difficult to have a reasonable argument, or road to a solution, when a major party in the discussion is unable to accept any concession and also has the money to buy politicians. Personally, as a life-long gun owner ( 12-guage shotgun, 30-06 rifle, and .32 hand gun) I am appalled that even the smallest adjustment to the law can be characterized as seizing personal freedom. Bump stocks, large magazines, and whatever, and it is all untouchable. Opposing the NRA by any politician is like political suicide.

Reasoned discussion. Not gonna happen.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:56 pm

It is difficult to have a reasonable argument, or road to a solution, when a major party in the discussion is unable to accept any concession and also has the money to buy politicians. Personally, as a life-long gun owner ( 12-guage shotgun, 30-06 rifle, and .32 hand gun) I am appalled that even the smallest adjustment to the law can be characterized as seizing personal freedom. Bump stocks, large magazines, and whatever, and it is all untouchable.


You know what else makes reasonable argument impossible? When one side of the debate has no idea what they're talking about nor what the other side has supported or does support.

For chrissakes, literally the first hit on any google search would give you this (from noted right-wing house organ CNN)

"The National Rifle Association announced Thursday that it supports a review of bump fire stocks to see if they are in accordance with federal law."

https://www.cnn.com/2017/10/05/politics ... index.html

Characterizing that stance as opposing any concession to something like bump stocks makes *you*, not them, look like the person shut off to any openness to discussion.

Yes, there has been opposition to some proposed legislation, but it's not been because of the bump-stock language- it's been because politicians can't pass anything without trying to piggy-back other things they like or don't like into it.

Further, this is becoming more and more obvious to the general public, which is why gun sales are going through the roof, and I, as a non-gun-owner and one who would welcome gun ownership becoming a gravely considered decision, am becoming frustrated with the inability of too many to remain rational.
Last edited by burrrton on Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:56 am

Old but Slow wrote:It is difficult to have a reasonable argument, or road to a solution, when a major party in the discussion is unable to accept any concession and also has the money to buy politicians. Personally, as a life-long gun owner ( 12-guage shotgun, 30-06 rifle, and .32 hand gun) I am appalled that even the smallest adjustment to the law can be characterized as seizing personal freedom. Bump stocks, large magazines, and whatever, and it is all untouchable. Opposing the NRA by any politician is like political suicide.

Reasoned discussion. Not gonna happen.


Opposing the NRA by ANY politician is policitcal suicide? Are you sure you don't mean any conservative or any R?

Actually my sense is that with the student walk outs this week that the political winds are changing. Even President Trump, about as stubborn as they come, is signaling that he's ready to compromise. And that evil empire the NRA has recently given ground, as burrton pointed out.

Whether or not they will be reasoned can be debated, but the discussions are going to happen. I just hope that the product is something better than that worthless POS bill the Dems came up with in 1994.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:50 am

Deputy Scot Peterson, of the Broward County Sheriff’s Office, was armed and stationed on the school’s campus when a suspect identified by authorities as Nikolas Cruz opened fire with an AR-15 rifle, leaving 17 people dead and others wounded.
Peterson resigned Thursday after video surveillance showed he never entered the school, even though he "clearly" knew there was a shooting taking place, officials said.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/02/23/po ... eport.html

Normally I'd want to wait until I heard his side of the story, but he pretty much told his side by resigning. This is just despicable. And there are some that would trust the police to protect our kids vs. arming teachers.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:08 pm

Regardless of security, the failures of the police and school officials that were all in knowing of this person have zero excuses. This isn't about a security guard.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:09 pm

[quote="burrrton"Yeah I'm fine, just a little salty with some stuff going on. Need to do a moral inventory for sure.[/quote]

Ok. I can be less salty, too.[/quote]

Thanks man. Had a family death, had a bunch of other stuff too. Damn. I'm better than this. f*** me.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:42 pm

Ugh, very sorry to hear that, largent.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:27 pm

Largent80 wrote:Regardless of security, the failures of the police and school officials that were all in knowing of this person have zero excuses. This isn't about a security guard.


It's about all the failures, including the security guard (he was actually a deputy sherrif). His superior, the sheriff, has made it clear that there was no reason he could think of that would even begin to excuse this officer's behavior.

This story just keeps getting worse and worse. There are a lot of people and organizations with crosses to bear.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:51 pm

A lot of big companies are cutting ties with the NRA and it's about time. It's changes that make things happen and the NRA is NOT kids in school friendly.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:58 am

Largent80 wrote:A lot of big companies are cutting ties with the NRA and it's about time. It's changes that make things happen and the NRA is NOT kids in school friendly.


There's a 99% chance their membership will go up because of all this, and this perpetuates the persecution complex they have.

Also, what do they support that isn't "kids in school friendly"'?

I've seen a ton of that kind of rhetoric, but none of what I've seen them opposed to would make kids any safer in school.

[edit]

And if you're talking about Enterprise et al, all I heard is they simply quit extending a *discount* to NRA members, a rounding error to their bottom line and hardly a hit to the NRA or its members. That they crowed about such a small gesture so publicly tells me it was more for signaling than about putting the screws to anyone (and like I said above, there's a 99% chance the publicity hurts them more than the NRA).
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:07 am

burrrton wrote:A lot of big companies are cutting ties with the NRA and it's about time. It's changes that make things happen and the NRA is NOT kids in school friendly.


There's a 99% chance their membership will go up because of all this, and this perpetuates the persecution complex they have.

Also, what do they support that isn't "kids in school friendly"'?

I've seen a ton of that kind of rhetoric, but none of what I've seen them opposed to would make kids any safer in school.

[edit]

And if you're talking about Enterprise et al, all I heard is they simply quit extending a *discount* to NRA members, a rounding error to their bottom line and hardly a hit to the NRA or its members. That they crowed about such a small gesture so publicly tells me it was more for signaling than about putting the screws to anyone (and like I said above, there's a 99% chance the publicity hurts them more than the NRA).[/quote]

Nope, I will support every one of these companies going forward and I'm not alone. Try again.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:51 am

Try again.


LOL. I'll be sure to say this to you when the gun grabbers fail yet again to repeal the 2nd Amendment or pass any legislation that isn't just feel-good masturbation.

You also (surprise!) didn't answer my question, which is why your side loses this debate over and over and over.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:44 am

burrrton wrote:You also (surprise!) didn't answer my question, which is why your side loses this debate over and over and over.


I'll answer that question. In a country where 60% is a landslide of epic porportions, a Constitutional amendment requires 3/4's appproval of the states and 2/3 majority of both Houses of Congress. It really doesn't matter how compelling the argument for gun control is, they are not going to get that kind of political support.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:02 am

No, this question:

Also, what do they [the NRA] support that isn't "kids in school friendly"'?


Still waiting.

It really doesn't matter how compelling the argument for gun control is, they are not going to get that kind of political support.


Agree, but their implication is that they have that kind of political support, or at least that it's right around the corner.

I don't think it is, because their arguments aren't compelling, they're arbitrary, and arguments that can be clearly illustrated to be arbitrary and borne of ignorance lose support quickly.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 4:31 pm

Dicks sporting goods will no longer sell assault weapons. That's huge.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:03 pm

Largent80 wrote:Dicks sporting goods will no longer sell assault weapons. That's huge.


Yep- all three people that would have bought an "assault rifle" from Dick's Sporting Goods in the next year will be disappointed.

You read whatever you want into it, but to me it's garden-variety pandering. He made a big announcement that they'll do something that will impact neither their bottom line** nor the number of semi-auto rifles on the market.

Now *Walmart's* announcement that they'll only sell firearms and ammo to people 21 and over is a bit more substantial, and while it sounds like a knee-jerk reaction to this specific situation (is that really the problem?), it strikes me as a defensible step despite my reservations about the old "if 18 year olds can be drafted..." thing.

Of course they had to make themselves look ridiculous by taking "assault style" airsoft (BB) guns out of their inventory (or was it just their website?), but still.

**I guess it might, but not in the way he thinks. Nobody was avoiding Dick's because they sold "ASSAULT STYLE" guns, but I bet there will be a non-negligible number that will avoid them because they announced they won't.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 5:30 pm

Downplay it and type walls of text if you want but it's huge.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Wed Feb 28, 2018 6:58 pm

Largent80 wrote:Downplay it and type walls of text if you want but it's huge.


Seven sentences is a wall of text to you? I use too many run-on sentences, but for heaven's sake.

And hey, if you think it's huge, tell yourself what you need to. Just don't be surprised when this "sea change" ends like every other "sea change" has the last quarter century.

I think it's impotent because you've taken up an indefensible position (you can't ban the 2A, you can't define "assault weapon", you can't describe how banning them would change the situation on the ground, and you can't make guns disappear), at least beyond the nibbling around the margins with things like banning bump-stocks, GVROs, etc, which I'd support.

Your inability or unwillingness to address my questions only reinforces that.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Old but Slow » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:59 am

Too many extreme positions on this issue. Take our guns, not happening and never was. But, a strong system for background checks seems to make sense.

Denying guns to violent felons, unbalanced mental health patients, and people I don't like, makes sense. Well, mostly. I have no solution to this mess, and it truly is a mess, but there are small incremental steps that we can take to ease the problem. Make it harder to buy guns. Should not be a problem if you have your gear together. California opponents are up in arms (sorry) that they want to institute a 10 day waiting period. Why the haste?

Applause for Dick's, and others who will take it upon themselves to have a higher standard.

Is it not disturbing that the survivors of this latest school attack are being targeted? They are all actors, paid by Soros to attack the NRA! Death threats! This is not the society that I know.

Obama is going to take our guns, except that he didn't, and did not even try. The gun industry sure made hay on that one, though. And, now that he is gone, they are concerned because the sales are down. What's next?

Rant over. Have at me.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:31 am

Denying guns to violent felons, unbalanced mental health patients, and people I don't like, makes sense.


It's already against federal law for any convicted felon, no matter ho violent their crime, to possess a firearm or ammunition, has been for some time. Agreed about "unbalanced mental health patients" being able to buy firearms as well, although I'm not sure I trust the system to make what seems to me to be a very arbitrary judgement, nor do I know how many crimes this would have prevented.

Make it harder to buy guns. Should not be a problem if you have your gear together. California opponents are up in arms (sorry) that they want to institute a 10 day waiting period. Why the haste?


Make it harder to buy some guns. If I want to buy a shotgun or hunting rifle for my son-in-law on his birthday, I don't want to have to wait 10 days to do it.

Applause for Dick's, and others who will take it upon themselves to have a higher standard.


The cynic in me tells me that Dick's might be doing this just for the promotional aspect. Free advertising.

Is it not disturbing that the survivors of this latest school attack are being targeted? They are all actors, paid by Soros to attack the NRA! Death threats! This is not the society that I know.


It's what happens to everyone, including school children, that thrust themselves onto the national stage of a controversial debate. It's too bad that they have to learn this lesson at such an early age, but they were going to have to learn about the birds and the bees someday.

Obama is going to take our guns, except that he didn't, and did not even try. The gun industry sure made hay on that one, though. And, now that he is gone, they are concerned because the sales are down. What's next?


Demagoguery, the same of which happens equally on the other side of the aisle, like the Republicans are going to take away Medicare, except that they didn't, and didn't even try.

Rant over. Have at me.


Done.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 7:22 am

Just imagine, all of the outlets that supply these guns quit supplying them without the lazy lawmakers telling them they have to. That is the good thing about Dicks doing what they did, it may or may not happen but it's the only chance of it ever happening in this gun nut country.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:50 am

It's what happens to everyone, including school children, that thrust themselves onto the national stage of a controversial debate. It's too bad that they have to learn this lesson at such an early age, but they were going to have to learn about the birds and the bees someday.


I think it borders on child abuse. This echos my opinion on the matter almost exactly:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/ ... r-critics/
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:54 am

Just imagine, all of the outlets that supply these guns quit supplying them without the lazy lawmakers telling them they have to.


I'd support it completely, but you realize there'd be nobody that would welcome their decision to do so more than their competitors, right?
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:00 am

Yeah, capitalism would get in the way, but if there were only a couple places left I would imagine they would also get a LOT of grief as well.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:10 am

Largent80 wrote:Yeah, capitalism would get in the way, but if there were only a couple places left I would imagine they would also get a LOT of grief as well.


Maybe, but you'd never get to only a couple places left:

(1) You'll quickly run out of businesses willing to cave to a heckler's veto.

(2) There'll always be someone to step in where there's demand, and you'll never eliminate demand.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Seahawks4Ever » Thu Mar 01, 2018 11:57 am

RD, why would you wait until the last minute to purchase a hunting rifle and/or shot gun for your under 18 grandchild for their birthday or for Christmas??? That is a "straw man" argument and quite frankly I expected better from you because usually your posts are very well thought out and "logical". I was once tagged with the nick name "Spock" because if someone or something seemed illogical to me I brought it up. So, I have respected most of your posts even if I didn't agree with them because I respect a well reasoned and thought out position. Some come out for or against certain issues yet they cannot defend them with reasoned arguments either for or against.

IMHO If a person cannot articulate in a well thought out and reasoned way exactly why they are either for or against something or someone then that in itself should be a huge RED FLAG that maybe, just maybe that person should do some more research and rethink their position because quite possibly they could be WRONG.

There is nothing inherently bad with being wrong about an issue and/or a person. There is only something bad when a person will continue to support someone or an issue after there has been credible "evidence" that the so called "facts" that led them to that decision are wrong yet for political or other reasons a person continues to cling to prejudices that they know to be wrong. Oh, and hiding behind ignorance is no excuse in this day and age.

Now, to the subject for I clicked on this thread; KUDOS !!! To our POTUS for demonstrating the LEADERSHIP we collectively as a nation have been yearning to see and hear from him. It is no small feat to take on the NRA and to publically disagree with them. Now, we the electorate need to show our support for our president and show the NRA and those in congress who have voted in lockstep with the gun rights group that voting against the NRA is NOT an act of political suicide.

The NRA has more than 5 million members which gives it a ton of clout. But, there are several pieces of gun control legislation that has in the past been supported by a majority of rank and file NRA members. So, politicians, our POTUS is giving you POLITICAL COVER so it is time to grow a back bone and pass common sense laws and regulations that will dramatically reduce the ability of those that should not be able to buy "guns" to acquire those guns.

There is a balance that has to be reached between keeping guns out of the hands of those who have no business owning one and LAW ABIDING citizens who should NOT be infringed from acquiring a gun whether for protection, hunting, sport, or just plain collecting. Take away that threat that either a state or federal government possibly confiscate guns from law abiding citizens and I believe all kinds of avenues for compromise will open up.

Back bone people, it all comes down to having the political will to "get 'er done".
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:09 pm

RD, why would you wait until the last minute to purchase a hunting rifle and/or shot gun for your under 18 grandchild for their birthday or for Christmas??? That is a "straw man" argument


Uh, you may want to take freshman philosophy over again, there, 4ever. It's nothing of the sort.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:52 pm

Seahawks4Ever wrote:RD, why would you wait until the last minute to purchase a hunting rifle and/or shot gun for your under 18 grandchild for their birthday or for Christmas??? That is a "straw man" argument and quite frankly I expected better from you because usually your posts are very well thought out and "logical".


You know, you really need to brush up on your reading comprehension, especially before you go off slinging mud at someone. I said noting about buying a gun for my under 18 year old grandchild. Hell, I don't even have any grandkids. Here's a copy and paste from what I did say....assuming that you'll take the time to actually read it:

If I want to buy a shotgun or hunting rifle for my son-in-law on his birthday, I don't want to have to wait 10 days to do it.


There's lots of very logical scenarios where a person might want to buy a hunting rifle or shotgun and not be able to give the 10 day notice, the most popular of which would be not knowing or forgetting when a birthday was, particularly if it wasn't a blood relative such as was the case with the situation I gave, ie an in-law's birthday.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:30 pm

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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Sun Mar 04, 2018 6:56 pm

Aaaaaand... here's what I was talking about with the virtue-signaling from companies:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/201 ... 388587002/

I don't agree with using tax policy that way, but case in point: you hurt yourself more than any of the people you're trying to stick it to.

Next up will be Dick's Sporting Goods quietly announcing they sold nearly 3 fewer "assault rifles" this year than last... and also that they'll be closing 20% of their stores nationwide.

Mark it down.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby RiverDog » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:44 pm

People are choosing sides and going to their corners. This is all we need, another issue to divide the country over. Sort of makes you forget about the abortion debate, doesn't it?
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:05 pm

RiverDog wrote:People are choosing sides and going to their corners. This is all we need, another issue to divide the country over. Sort of makes you forget about the abortion debate, doesn't it?


No kidding.

It's kinda my point, too- driving people to their sides is going to have a much bigger effect on those who give a s***, namely those who value their firearms. The "other side" of that are vastly more blase about it- they've been told 150 different times in their lives if nothing is done now, the world will end, and they've seen 150 times those people had no idea what they were talking about.

Then we have another psycho surface, and they start spouting the same nonsense and talking about their "sea change"... then we move on with nothing constructive done about anything. Again.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:26 am

What do y'all expect?

Bump stock being banned is good enough? Seriously?

It's too late for anything so the killings will continue, you had just better hope it isn't you or someone you love.

THAT is the last word. Y'all want a well armed malitia and you got one.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:29 pm

Bump stock being banned is good enough? Seriously?


1. Nobody said that- quit arguing with the voices in your head.

2. We're all ears if you've got the magical solution to the problem, chief.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:48 pm

[quote="burrrton"][quote]Bump stock being banned is good enough? Seriously?

1. Nobody said that- quit arguing with the voices in your head.

2. We're all ears if you've got the magical solution to the problem, chief.

I already said BAN ALL ASSAULT WEAPONS....you can't read?......Cheif?
Here a good music video describing YOU and your views......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkFqg5wAuFk
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby burrrton » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:22 pm

I already said BAN ALL ASSAULT WEAPONS....you can't read?


And it's been explained in great detail how that doesn't do any fcking good because you can't even define "assault weapon" beyond "scary looking", nor describe any functional difference between it and every other semi-automatic rifle on the planet.

Thanks for illustrating my point.

After all, you can't even spell Burton correctly.

Here a good music video describing YOU and your views......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkFqg5wAuFk


Sick burns, largent.
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Re: School Shooting in Broward, Florida

Postby Largent80 » Mon Mar 05, 2018 1:24 pm

Are you talkin to me....PUNK? walk on home boy.
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Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 1:38 pm
Location: Tex-ass

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