What was Romney thinking?

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Re: What was Romney thinking?

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Feb 26, 2020 9:15 pm

RiverDog wrote:I sincerely apologize for beating this into the ground, but I thought of another example. In my college years as a business administration major, we had classes that us students referred to as Stat I, Stat II, and Stat III, statistics classes with a lot of math. Their 'official' names were Quantitative Analysis I, II, and III. We worked on problems like determining if a set of data fit a straight line, exponential, or parabolic curve.

That's different than say a biology class where most of their experiments involves non quantifiable methods, like testing a dead frog's nervous system by giving it an electrical shock to see if it's muscles contract. That's not a quantifiable, measurable test like we did in my business classes but it is a verification through an observation.


I'm aware of qualitative analysis. Which is why stated it is the weakest form of evidence. It's often used by social scientists to rate perceived, emotionally based experience. It's often used by marketers, politicians, and social scientists to determine perception and emotionally-based reactions to different elements in the world. It is a very weak form of evidence that is much like letting the mob decide what is best absent quantifiable facts.

It's why I don't look at is much of a fact. It's basically a data point on a survey with no measurable value other than your feeling or opinion.

You can technically define it as a fact because qualitative analysis is a thing often given validity by social scientists who I don't have much respect for, but it's about as useful as the happiness index international organizations use to measure how good a nation is. It's a terrible form of comparative evidence. Which is why I don't often use it. I much prefer quantifiable, measurable evidence like life expectancy, wait times as you supplied, surgical outcomes, and other quantifiable measures for almost anything. It's a much better way than anecdotal or emotionally-based evidence as these surveys, polls, and the like supply.
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Re: What was Romney thinking?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:26 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:I'm aware of qualitative analysis. Which is why stated it is the weakest form of evidence. It's often used by social scientists to rate perceived, emotionally based experience. It's often used by marketers, politicians, and social scientists to determine perception and emotionally-based reactions to different elements in the world. It is a very weak form of evidence that is much like letting the mob decide what is best absent quantifiable facts.

It's why I don't look at is much of a fact. It's basically a data point on a survey with no measurable value other than your feeling or opinion.

You can technically define it as a fact because qualitative analysis is a thing often given validity by social scientists who I don't have much respect for, but it's about as useful as the happiness index international organizations use to measure how good a nation is. It's a terrible form of comparative evidence. Which is why I don't often use it. I much prefer quantifiable, measurable evidence like life expectancy, wait times as you supplied, surgical outcomes, and other quantifiable measures for almost anything. It's a much better way than anecdotal or emotionally-based evidence as these surveys, polls, and the like supply.


I guess it depends on the circumstance. If 3 million people saw a cloudless sky and the sun shining and no one said that it wasn't, is that weak evidence that it was a sunny day?

Surveys and polls can be done with uncanny accuracy depending on how well they are done. The 2016 election is a classic example (see my argument with Idahawk in another thread). Nearly all the polling organizations nailed the nation wide popular vote to within their previously state margin of error (usually 3%). But some of the state polls missed the mark entirely. HRC was projected to win Wisconsin by 6%, so she didn't even bother going to the state during her campaign. For a number of reasons, state wide polls are much more difficult to do correctly. Polling is a combination of both quantifiable as well as qualitative methods, a science as much as they are an art.

As far as this discussion goes, my opinion is an undeniable fact. You cannot tell me that I am not satisfied. I cannot offer completely quantifiable evidence as some of it is based on my perception of the quality of care I am receiving, but a lot of it I can, like the cost of my insurance or how many doctors I have available to choose from, how many accept Medicare, how far away do I have to drive to see them, or how long do I have to wait for an appointment.

My objection to Medicare for All is based mostly on quantifiable reasons. I am afraid that there will be fewer doctors working out of fewer clinics resulting in shorter appointments with each doctor having a larger number of patients and fewer hospitals with those remaining serving more patients. You can put numbers on each one of those factors I mentioned.
Last edited by RiverDog on Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What was Romney thinking?

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:34 am

You're trying to make this a whole lot more complex than it is for the sake of saying "I was right all along" ... just go on ahead, I stand by everything I've said and am not willing to parse it further.
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Re: What was Romney thinking?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 27, 2020 4:51 am

c_hawkbob wrote:You're trying to make this a whole lot more complex than it is for the sake of saying "I was right all along" ... just go on ahead, I stand by everything I've said and am not willing to parse it further.


Not complex at all, my friend. You said that two terms, quantifiable and qualitative, were the same when clearly they are not. One is a measurement or mathematically derived result, the other an observation or logical deduction. An art vs. a science if you prefer it to be simplified.
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Re: What was Romney thinking?

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Feb 27, 2020 5:17 am

I fully understand what they mean and how they apply to this conversation.
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Re: What was Romney thinking?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:22 am

c_hawkbob wrote:I fully understand what they mean and how they apply to this conversation.


Good. You had not made that clear in your earlier statements, hence the explanations and examples. Sorry if I belabored the point.
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