Stone Sentencing Expected Today

[RiverDog]

Does she throw the book at him and give him the 7-9 years as was the original recommendation? Or does she cave into pressure from the POTUS and lets him off the hook with a slap on the wrists, say 6 months with credit for time already served?

I haven't a clue. My personal opinion is that it shouldn't be less than 2 years but anymore than 5 would be excessive. Susan McDougal of Clinton Whitewater fame was sentenced to 2 years, 18 months of which was for failing to testify against Slick Willy and that's not as serious as lying about it like Stone did. However, Mitchell, Haldeman and Erlichman, figures within Nixon's inner circle, were sentenced to 3 to 8 years, and Stone's crime isn't nearly as momentous as those guys so 7-9 seems pretty over-the-top.

[RiverDog]

Just in: Stone was sentenced to 40 months in prison, or 3 1/3 years, pretty damn close to the middle of what I felt was fair.

Now the question will be if Trump pardons him or commutes the sentence.

[c_hawkbob]

I don't even think that's a question really, I have no doubt he will.

[RiverDog]

I don't even think that's a question really, I have no doubt he will.

Agreed. Now that he's taken the Dem's best shot and survived impeachment, there's nothing to stop him from pardoning all of his cronies. He's bullet proof and he knows it. Trump could get away with pardoning Jeffery Epstein if he were still alive.

Just think how he'll act if he gets re-elected and is a lame duck and not have to worry about winning another election.

[Aseahawkfan]

Agreed. Now that he's taken the Dem's best shot and survived impeachment, there's nothing to stop him from pardoning all of his cronies. He's bullet proof and he knows it. Trump could get away with pardoning Jeffery Epstein if he were still alive.

Just think how he'll act if he gets re-elected and is a lame duck and not have to worry about winning another election.

I'm not looking forward to that. We still haven't heard how the investigation into his finances is going. Then again I'm pretty sure they won't find anything actionable as he doesn't do his taxes himself. He hires some corporate accounting firm to do his taxes and has an accounting department, he is unlikely to bother them or care as long as the money looks about right.

[RiverDog]

Agreed. Now that he's taken the Dem's best shot and survived impeachment, there's nothing to stop him from pardoning all of his cronies. He's bullet proof and he knows it. Trump could get away with pardoning Jeffery Epstein if he were still alive.

Just think how he'll act if he gets re-elected and is a lame duck and not have to worry about winning another election.

I'm not looking forward to that. We still haven't heard how the investigation into his finances is going. Then again I'm pretty sure they won't find anything actionable as he doesn't do his taxes himself. He hires some corporate accounting firm to do his taxes and has an accounting department, he is unlikely to bother them or care as long as the money looks about right.

The issue regarding his finances isn't his taxes per se. As you have stated, it's doubtful that he cheated on them and even if he did, he can always blame the person that prepared them. The issue with releasing his tax returns is that they would expose his assets and investments as it could potentially provide a trail to a conflict of interest charge.

[Aseahawkfan]

The issue regarding his finances isn't his taxes per se. As you have stated, it's doubtful that he cheated on them and even if he did, he can always blame the person that prepared them. The issue with releasing his tax returns is that they would expose his assets and investments as it could potentially provide a trail to a conflict of interest charge.

They already have that trail. Main problem I'm betting the press isn't talking about is because behind the scenes we'd see similar conflict of interest charges for a bunch of rich Dems and Republicans in power that don't want that kind of investigation starting or a tit for tat push for conflicts of interest with businesses they they have contacts in. Like I said, I'm doubtful they pursue that angle unless it is something that can't be exploited against powerful Democrats and Republicans as well. It's probably why we haven't heard much about it as of late. Sort of like the metoo# movement that started off against Trump and Kavanaugh, then started taking out Democrats and their supporters. Both sides have to be careful about they pursue so they don't screw up their party as well.

Trump did a major hit job on Biden. He'll do the same thing if they try to get him on finances as well. He'll start digging into Democrat finances and launching torpedoes even if the press won't take them up. We shall see for sure soon enough.

I imagine the Democrats have a huge amount of built up ammo to launch during the main election cycle right around when people are casting their votes. We'll see how it goes.

This next election cycle is going to be dirty.

If I were the Dems, I would let Sanders get the nomination and let him take a run at it. Let two crazy old men on opposing sides with unconventional bases and ideas take a run at each other, see who wins. Bernie is radical enough to galvanize a mixed voter base that may knock Trump out.

[RiverDog]

The issue regarding his finances isn't his taxes per se. As you have stated, it's doubtful that he cheated on them and even if he did, he can always blame the person that prepared them. The issue with releasing his tax returns is that they would expose his assets and investments as it could potentially provide a trail to a conflict of interest charge.

They already have that trail. Main problem I'm betting the press isn't talking about is because behind the scenes we'd see similar conflict of interest charges for a bunch of rich Dems and Republicans in power that don't want that kind of investigation starting or a tit for tat push for conflicts of interest with businesses they they have contacts in. Like I said, I'm doubtful they pursue that angle unless it is something that can't be exploited against powerful Democrats and Republicans as well. It's probably why we haven't heard much about it as of late. Sort of like the metoo# movement that started off against Trump and Kavanaugh, then started taking out Democrats and their supporters. Both sides have to be careful about they pursue so they don't screw up their party as well.

Agreed. Sort of a different topic, but the #Metoo movement might be on the cusp of taking a major hit as it's looking more and more like Harvey Weinstein will be acquitted, and if that happens, they'll lose their credibility and won't be a huge factor in the election.

This next election cycle is going to be dirty.

Which is why I think that Bloomberg is the best candidate to go up against Trump. He has the balls and the money to get down into the gutter and duke it out with Trump, and there's no way that any of them have as much baggage as Trump has.

If I were the Dems, I would let Sanders get the nomination and let him take a run at it. Let two crazy old men on opposing sides with unconventional bases and ideas take a run at each other, see who wins. Bernie is radical enough to galvanize a mixed voter base that may knock Trump out.

If he doesn't have a heart attack a month after the nomination. Sanders turns 79 this September. Can he stand the gruel of a nation wide campaign?

[Aseahawkfan]

Which is why I think that Bloomberg is the best candidate to go up against Trump. He has the balls and the money to get down into the gutter and duke it out with Trump, and there's no way that any of them have as much baggage as Trump has.

He has the money, but not the message. Bloomberg won't galvanize the Democratic voters against Trump. He won't get the minority vote. He won't interest women much. He won't get the youth vote. He will probably appeal most to middle left Democrats and maybe some centrist Republicans. He offers nothing but a big war chest and not much else. He's not even a better speaker than Trump and won't work crowds near as well.

If he doesn't have a heart attack a month after the nomination. Sanders turns 79 this September. Can he stand the gruel of a nation wide campaign?

The man's survived to now. He'll survive a campaign. He's the only wildcard I see beating Trump after Trump took Biden out through his son.

[RiverDog]

He (Bloomberg) has the money, but not the message. Bloomberg won't galvanize the Democratic voters against Trump. He won't get the minority vote. He won't interest women much. He won't get the youth vote. He will probably appeal most to middle left Democrats and maybe some centrist Republicans. He offers nothing but a big war chest and not much else. He's not even a better speaker than Trump and won't work crowds near as well.

Actually Bloomberg has come out with some very good proposals, the most notable of which is shoring up Social Security, one that, at least on the surface, sounds pretty good to even a fiscal conservative like myself, particularly the part that would make low income workers eligible for a government matching account similar to private 401K's/IRA's that many of us retirees have used to secure our futures:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/16/bloombe ... vings.html

But of course, none of them have indicated exactly how they're going to fund their proposals, although it seems likely that they'll all have to bite the bullet and increase the payroll tax. Sanders and Warren have talked about a wealth tax, which would be a huge fiasco even if they were able to get it past a conservative SCOTUS and that Trump would have a field day attacking. Bloomberg's too smart to touch that dog of an idea.

If he doesn't have a heart attack a month after the nomination. Sanders turns 79 this September. Can he stand the gruel of a nation wide campaign?

The man's survived to now. He'll survive a campaign. He's the only wildcard I see beating Trump after Trump took Biden out through his son.

He had a heart attack last fall and had surgery because of it. You can bet your bottom dollar that he'll have a team of doctors with him monitoring his health.

The other part about Sanders is that he is not at all charismatic, something that's going to be critical if they are to draw in Millennials that are for the most part ignorant of any factual information contained in any kind of message to the voters. He's always angry about something and seldom smiles, looks like a grumpy professor with that frizzled white hair and jabbing forefinger. He reminds me of the mad scientist Dr. Brown in "Back to the Future". The visual graphics for Sanders just aren't there. I'm not sure if he can motivate the younger crowd, most of whom don't bother reading a voter pamphlet or listen to the debates. A more friendly, attractive looking Buttigieg or Klobuchar would be more likely to appeal to the younger crowd IMO.

Bloomberg isn't that much more charismatic, either, but even though him and Sanders are virtually the same age, Bernie looks lots older and doesn't have that grumpy old man look to him.

[Hawktawk]

The issue regarding his finances isn't his taxes per se. As you have stated, it's doubtful that he cheated on them and even if he did, he can always blame the person that prepared them. The issue with releasing his tax returns is that they would expose his assets and investments as it could potentially provide a trail to a conflict of interest charge.

Its doubtful Trump cheats on his taxes? A NYT article comprised of 2 years of investigative reporting and thousands of publicly available documents show a pattern of tax evasion and potential fraud going back to Daddy Freds time and continuing till today. Of course in the scandal a day administration it wasn't even a complete news cycle.
Also a copy of Trump's taxes for a decade from the late 80s to late 90s showed over a billion in losses, more than any similar sized corporation in america in that span.
The lawsuits to block release of the Deutsche Bank records involve potential money laundering over a long period of time as the bank continued to loan him massive amounts of money with no credit worthiness whatsoever. Their history of corruption and laundering money from Russian oligarchs is well known.

There were numerous red flagged transactions both by Trump and also by Jared Kushner leading up to the election but the fraud investigators at the bank were told to be quiet and were later fired. Trump still has hundreds of millions in unpaid loans from Deutsche Bank.A theory of financial crime investigators is that the loans, one of 225 million following a TRUMP LAWSUIT TO AVOID PAYING OFF ONE!!! are guaranteed by Russian Oligarchs, clearly compromising Trump to be the president. You are correct about the potential embarrassment to Trump though. One theory for why hes soaking the secret service and staff etc at his resorts is a cash flow issue, possible the impetus to sell Trump hotel DC as well. As Bloomberg said when asked about the prospects of 2 Billionaires duking it out"who is the other billionaire.."

As for what's going to happen at SDNY the answer as long as Barr is the AG is NOTHING. He's taking control of every investigation involving Trump or his cronies. It appears from the Stone sentencing that this lawless president was even able to intimidate a federal judge. Its a lawless time. Its not just a hiccup in the normal order, its flat out anarchy.

[RiverDog]

It appears from the Stone sentencing that this lawless president was even able to intimidate a federal judge. Its a lawless time. Its not just a hiccup in the normal order, its flat out anarchy.

How so? Stone's sentence was right in line with what other political figures have received for similar transgressions. Hell, I damn near nailed it as I said 2-5 years and the sentence came in at 40 months, or just two month's shy of being smack dab in the middle of my prediction (Idahawkman must be jealous of that kind of accuracy in a prediction), and I don't think you can characterize me as a Trump supporter. Additionally, the judge issued a scathing statement to/about Stone during the sentencing:

“He was not prosecuted, as some have claimed, for standing up for the president," she said. "He was prosecuted for covering up for the president."

The defendant isn't public enemy No. 1 but he's not a victim either," Jackson said then. Jackson added that it was "hard to overstate the number of lies, the amount of fraud and the extraordinary amount of money involved."

"The defendant engaged in threatening and intimidating behavior toward the court," she said. "This is intolerable to the administration of justice."

The judge said that Stone’s crimes should arouse “dismay and disgust” that “transcend” political affiliation.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/poli ... s/2220486/

That doesn't sound to me like she was intimidated. To the contrary, the fact that the judge has enraged DJT is proof positive that she was not intimidated by him one iota. IMO she's been as tough as nails in standing up to the pressure.

However, there is a problem as Stone's attorneys have filed for a new trial on grounds of misconduct by the jury foremen in that they apparently posted on Twitter messages critical of the POTUS. Trump is holding off on his expected pardon until that scene plays out.

[Aseahawkfan]

Its doubtful Trump cheats on his taxes? A NYT article comprised of 2 years of investigative reporting and thousands of publicly available documents show a pattern of tax evasion and potential fraud going back to Daddy Freds time and continuing till today. Of course in the scandal a day administration it wasn't even a complete news cycle.
Also a copy of Trump's taxes for a decade from the late 80s to late 90s showed over a billion in losses, more than any similar sized corporation in america in that span.
The lawsuits to block release of the Deutsche Bank records involve potential money laundering over a long period of time as the bank continued to loan him massive amounts of money with no credit worthiness whatsoever. Their history of corruption and laundering money from Russian oligarchs is well known.

There were numerous red flagged transactions both by Trump and also by Jared Kushner leading up to the election but the fraud investigators at the bank were told to be quiet and were later fired. Trump still has hundreds of millions in unpaid loans from Deutsche Bank.A theory of financial crime investigators is that the loans, one of 225 million following a TRUMP LAWSUIT TO AVOID PAYING OFF ONE!!! are guaranteed by Russian Oligarchs, clearly compromising Trump to be the president. You are correct about the potential embarrassment to Trump though. One theory for why hes soaking the secret service and staff etc at his resorts is a cash flow issue, possible the impetus to sell Trump hotel DC as well. As Bloomberg said when asked about the prospects of 2 Billionaires duking it out"who is the other billionaire.."

As for what's going to happen at SDNY the answer as long as Barr is the AG is NOTHING. He's taking control of every investigation involving Trump or his cronies. It appears from the Stone sentencing that this lawless president was even able to intimidate a federal judge. Its a lawless time. Its not just a hiccup in the normal order, its flat out anarchy.

How many Dems and Republicans can they bring down for exactly the same types of tax charges? That is the real key.

You have to remember this is political warfare. Which means whatever you attack Trump with, you have to be able to insulate other powerful members of each political party or you can cause a cascade of reactions bringing down other people that don't want their finances questioned. That's the game.