red state Gov

[Hawktawk]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/floridas- ... kely-covid

We have truly made a faustian bargain with death but nowhere more than these red state guys with their half @$$ late closings and early openings and now they will cook the books till the medical people start protesting in the streets. I kept seeing f Jay inslee on FB while my trumpanzee buddies praised guys like Desantis for not bowing to science. I fear a catastrophe of biblical proportions is coming and were damned if we do and damned if we dont at this point.

[Aseahawkfan]

Did you see our president talking about doing less testing because the COVID19 cases will go up? So if we don't test as much, it won't be as bad, like this virus will go away by magic.

And then there is his call to protest what? People of African descent? I don't know what he means when he watches a couple of criminals beat someone up and calls for protests against an entire group of people.

I keep wondering how long he gets to stay in office saying these incredibly stupid things. Are Americans so dumb to vote for a guy this terrible? Hard to tell.

[Hawktawk]

And just to revisit my post of a few weeks back the horrific reality is developing in mainly red states and red areas of blue states. This is getting ugly. The reefer vans are starting to be placed around morgues in AZ and Texas. I wonder if we are all just screwed and dont know it yet. Our country has handled this like belarus with nukes. 40% of our citizens give or take are so selfish and vain they wont even wear a mask. This may not end well at all

[RiverDog]

And just to revisit my post of a few weeks back the horrific reality is developing in mainly red states and red areas of blue states. This is getting ugly. The reefer vans are starting to be placed around morgues in AZ and Texas. I wonder if we are all just screwed and dont know it yet. Our country has handled this like belarus with nukes. 40% of our citizens give or take are so selfish and vain they wont even wear a mask. This may not end well at all

It's worse than I thought it would be, but it does seem to be getting better, at least from my perspective here in the Tri Cities. A few weeks ago, I went into a Home Depot and hardly anyone was wearing a mask. I even saw an employee without one and several with them down around their necks. Grocery stores had maybe 60% compliance. Now that the state and local governments have finally gotten off their duffs and mandated stores not to serve customers and threaten to revoke their business licenses if they don't comply, I go into the same store and see 90% plus compliance, an observation that was supported by a survey done by our local health departments.

Even Trump's biggest boot licker, Sean Hannity, has come out and endorsed mask wearing, and the other day, the Chief Buffoon himself was photographed wearing one in public.

But yes, it's been handled very, very poorly, both at the federal level and at state levels, and not just in the red states. There's no place more blue than California and no place in California bluer than LA. Our governor here was tardy in making stores enforce mask wearing and waited until our hospitals were nearly full of COVID patients before he acted. And of course, the worst of them all has been Donald Trump, who continues not to get it. I'd lay about 75% of all our problems squarely in his lap.

[Hawktawk]

I'm working at the Legacy golf resort in Potholes . There's a lot of red white and blue trump banners around. The one small store here has a sign masks required to enter but id say compliance is maybe 50% at best RIGHT NOW and that's with othello 20 miles away reporting 25 cases a day. I had some guy without one walking by me repeatedly nowhere near 6 feet away.I turned my back to him every time and he kept doing it. I swear bipolar HT about pulled a Mike Tyson on him, really close . These idiots dont realize covid 19 isn't the only danger associated with not wearing a mask you selfish obnoxious pricks. If it hasn't improved the next time I go in there I'm going to loudly ask the cashier why maskless people are in the store.

[Hawktawk]

Its not good.....https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rence.html

[c_hawkbob]

Its not good.....https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rence.html

Hey, congrats on getting those beaches open though!

[RiverDog]

Its not good.....https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... rence.html

And Disney World re-opened, the NBA has their bubble league going, and the RNC is coming to Jacksonville next month.

[NorthHawk]

I'm working at the Legacy golf resort in Potholes . There's a lot of red white and blue trump banners around. The one small store here has a sign masks required to enter but id say compliance is maybe 50% at best RIGHT NOW and that's with othello 20 miles away reporting 25 cases a day. I had some guy without one walking by me repeatedly nowhere near 6 feet away.I turned my back to him every time and he kept doing it. I swear bipolar HT about pulled a Mike Tyson on him, really close . These idiots dont realize covid 19 isn't the only danger associated with not wearing a mask you selfish obnoxious pricks. If it hasn't improved the next time I go in there I'm going to loudly ask the cashier why maskless people are in the store.

I heard a Governor on TV the other night (and I think he was a Republican) who said wearing a mask was everyone's civic duty.
I couldn't agree more. It's a small price to pay to keep people around us healthy and in the long term keep our taxes somewhat in check.
The less people who get sick, the less it costs the medical system - meaning us.
This is true throughout the world.

[RiverDog]

I heard a Governor on TV the other night (and I think he was a Republican) who said wearing a mask was everyone's civic duty. I couldn't agree more. It's a small price to pay to keep people around us healthy and in the long term keep our taxes somewhat in check.

The less people who get sick, the less it costs the medical system - meaning us. This is true throughout the world.

I simply don't get the objections to wearing masks. The only time they are required is when you are inside a public building, like a grocery store, and how long are you inside? 30 minutes? 60 minutes tops? And how often during the week do you really have to go into the store? Once or twice? And if you have some type of breathing problem, get a damn face shield. They're not that expensive, around $10-20 on Amazon.

Only in America, where we have to politicize everything and where everything is a threat to our freedom, is there a problem with compliance. Our defiance is not only killing people, it's keeping our economy from starting back up.

[c_hawkbob]

I heard a Governor on TV the other night (and I think he was a Republican) who said wearing a mask was everyone's civic duty. I couldn't agree more. It's a small price to pay to keep people around us healthy and in the long term keep our taxes somewhat in check.

The less people who get sick, the less it costs the medical system - meaning us. This is true throughout the world.

I simply don't get the objections to wearing masks. The only time they are required is when you are inside a public building, like a grocery store, and how long are you inside? 30 minutes? 60 minutes tops? And how often during the week do you really have to go into the store? Once or twice? And if you have some type of breathing problem, get a damn face shield. They're not that expensive, around $10-20 on Amazon.

Only in America, where we have to politicize everything and where everything is a threat to our freedom, is there a problem with compliance. Our defiance is not only killing people, it's keeping our economy from starting back up.

It was exactly the same during the Spanish Flue pandemic a hundred years ago, except the government didn't take sides in the debate as ours has and all worked together to get people to comply: https://www.businessinsider.com/people- ... mic-2020-5

[RiverDog]

It was exactly the same during the Spanish Flue pandemic a hundred years ago, except the government didn't take sides in the debate as ours has and all worked together to get people to comply: https://www.businessinsider.com/people- ... mic-2020-5

Yep, I've seen old B&W photographs of people wearing masks and distancing themselves from each other. It's nothing new.

There's a lot of things about this pandemic that have been botched by politicians on both sides of the aisle, in government, and in private industry. But nowhere has there been a more consequential, easier to implement, and cheaper to acquire solution where we've failed and failed miserably than in our inability to get everyone on board with wearing face masks.

[Aseahawkfan]

Big surprise, we were dumbasses back then too. Not hard to understand looking at our history though. You build a nation on revolution and liberty expect the citizens to be a cantankerous, crazy lot.

[RiverDog]

You build a nation on revolution and liberty expect the citizens to be a cantankerous, crazy lot.

Yep. Combine that with the nearly undeniable fact that we're a country of morons and the result is that you can't get enough people to wear masks (90+%) in order to control a pandemic.

[c_hawkbob]

There's a lot of things about this pandemic that have been botched by politicians on both sides of the aisle

No, at least as it relates to this pandemic that's just a thing Republicans tell themselves to feel better about their party. The overwhelming majority of idiocy regarding all things Covid-19 have been coming from one side of that aisle and we all know which side that is.

[RiverDog]

There's a lot of things about this pandemic that have been botched by politicians on both sides of the aisle

No, at least as it relates to this pandemic that's just a thing Republicans tell themselves to feel better about their party. The overwhelming majority of idiocy regarding all things Covid-19 have been coming from one side of that aisle and we all know which side that is.

Not in this state. Governor Inslee, a Democrat, waited until July 6th to make it mandatory that businesses require that customers mask up or refused service with the consequences of failure being to lose their business license. When he finally did, compliance in my community, which is a coronavirus hot spot and has been stuck in Phase 1 until last week, jumped from below 50% to 95%. He should have acted at least a month earlier when it became apparent that voluntary measures or toothless mandates weren't working. Costco, for example, has been requiring masks of all their customers since early April.

There's also a number of non sensical restrictions that Inslee put in place during the shutdown. For example, he banned all non essential construction activities EXCEPT if it happened to be a non essential government project. WTF is the difference? Non essential is non essential. For many conservatives, who are pre-dispositioned to have an anti government, pro business set of values in the first place, the government giving itself a special exemption while at the same time putting the hammer to private businesses was like waving a red flag in front of a bull. Relatively solitary, outdoor activities, like fishing and golf, were banned, as was all overnight camping. I'm only guessing, but it seems a logical deduction that golf, fishing, and camping are activities that are more likely to be enjoyed by rural and suburban folks, also more likely to be conservatives, more so than our urban, liberal brethren. IMO these unjustified bans are part of the reason why some people, mostly conservatives, aren't as enthusiastic about complying with the recommendations as the government has done a very poor job of making a determination of at risk activities and failed to give a good rationale as to why they were banning the activities they did.

But I do agree that the most egregious mistakes have come in states with Republican governors and would assign overall blame at 80% R's, 20% Dems, although we should really factor Trump out of the R side of the equation and give him his own percentage of the blame.

[Aseahawkfan]

Seems pretty hard to quantify myself.

As far as messaging goes, I would say the Republicans are much worse at messaging. Trump deserves his own level of stupid.

As far as actually screwing up, I would say the bag is more equally distributed. I can see how someone like C-bob would try to put it all on the Republicans like he usually does even with the following clear evidence he is wrong:

1. Governor Cuomo handled New York terribly. Worst hit state with tons of mistakes made.

2. Washington: Slow to react even though they had the first confirmed case. The virus was first diagnosed in January? We didn't lock down or do much to track it until March.

If we go by state by state problems, plenty of Democratic run states hit as hard or worse than Republican states. That is for a variety reasons not all tied to particular parties.

It's a completely falsehood to claim the Democrats haven't made as many mistakes as the Republicans. I imagine that is hard to determine with the politicization by the media with each side choosing to attack the other absent the data to prove their points.

Then there is just the general hypocrisy:

1. Media with Republican States: Cases are spiking. I can't believe they're letting people on beaches and re-opening.

2. Left wing media with Democratic States: There is no sign that massive protester gatherings are causing any increased coronavirus spread even though they are clearly violating social distancing and gathering rules. Hey, it's their right to protest. So no big deal. It's an American right. Of course, if you're a law-abiding person who is adhering to our mandates, then be scared because we might fine and jail you.

Sorry, plenty of hypocrisy, blame, and the like to go along.

Main problem I see with the Republicans is the terrible messaging and the focus on a handful of bad actors including Dumb as Dirt pushing masks as some kind of attack on liberty. As far as death counts and handling of the pandemic in general, we'll see what the death counts are like at the end of it call to judge how it was handled. See who has the numbers showing they really mishandled it like Cuomo in New York.

So many people buying the media line they listen too without looking at the actual results. Democrats get an A for messaging as they seem to have sold the lemmings they're doing a better job because of course the head Republican Dumb as Dirt is handling this terribly and just wants it all to go away, but unfortunately for Dumb as Dirt virus's don't care about your attempts to control everything by firing people and trying to manipulate information.

[RiverDog]

I have to give Cuomo and Insless a break for their performance in March and early April. They received almost no help or guidance from the federal government, especially the POTUS, who fought with them and was openly uncooperative. There wasn't nearly as much information on the disease nor effective treatments as existed months later. For example, the CDC had yet to recommend face coverings as a means to stop the spread, which has now become what health experts claim is the biggest single measure that can control the spread of the virus. I'm even OK with the non sensical measures adapted in the shutdown, at least initially. The main thing was to get shut down promptly, so using the shotgun approach makes a lot of sense. It was the first pandemic we've had to contend with in over a century and there wasn't a playbook or instruction manual. They had to make up things on the fly with the best information they had available at the time.

At least as far as Inslee goes, IMO it's his performance in May and June where he made the worst mistakes. They should have come back and reviewed their decisions as information about the spread of the virus began to emerge. It was known early on that the virus doesn't spread nearly as easily outdoors as it does indoors, so he should have come back and allowed activities like fishing, golfing, and camping (with certain restrictions). Outdoor construction, like residential home building of unfinished, open air structures where there are seldom more than 4 or 5 people on a job site at one time, should have been allowed, again with certain restrictions, like no car pooling. Mask wearing should have been made mandatory early on, and when surveys showed that we were not complying, put the thumb on businesses and make them enforce the measures by refusing service. Personal services, like barber shops and beauty salons, could have been permitted so long as both barber/stylist and customer are masked up. IMO it's these non sensical bans that contributed to a pent up society, antagonized conservatives, and helped make the issue political.

Like I said above, the Who's Been Naughty and Who's Been Nice list is likely to end up with the dirty finger directed at mostly R's, which is to be expected. It's in the Democrats DNA not to give a rip about business, especially those in the private sector, so it's a much easier decision for them to tell the private sector to suck it up. It's better to have a liberal in charge during a pandemic than it is a conservative.

[NorthHawk]

I think Cuomo gets a bit of a break, too.
Everyone in NA was looking at this virus as coming almost exclusively from China when in fact Europe was in the early stages of a pandemic.
What seems to me was happening was we were looking at China and the Europeans were bringing it in the back door.

It seems to me that if you look around the world, the most successful strategy is for the politicians to get out of the way and let the medical
experts run the show. It has worked in Asia, and here in British Columbia to a large extent as well as some other European countries.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump can use those same excuses depending on your political bias. So no, I don't give Cuomo or Inslee a pass. Both New York and Washington are extremely well connected with China and have some amazing medical staffing. They should have been on top of the virus since it first appeared in their state. China locked down when the virus showed up in their nation. Inslee having the virus in his state should have made moves to rein it in. So should Cuomo given the population density in his city.

Simple fact of the matter is the politicians didn't want to shut things down. This idea that the Democrats somehow don't care about business is pure bunk. They give massive tax breaks for these huge companies to do business in their cities. They absolutely need the tax revenue from business and operations to fund all their programs and city activities. They may play the Federal Government blame game right now, but no one with a half a brain believes that. They didn't want to shut down and only did so when they felt they had no choice. This idea that Democrats are socialists who don't care about business is a total lie of the Right. Democrats are as deep in bed with big business as the Republicans and get a huge amount of their funding from business.

Trump may get most of the blame because he's a total idiot. But these governors did not want to lock down and have lost a ton of funds doing so. Once the worm turned, then they jumped on the lock downs and they all started playing the political blame game with the idiot.

[I-5]

Everyday it just seems to get worse, watching what's happening in the US. I can't think of a more harmful effect of the whole 'fake news' mantra, that has people so polarized than this pandemic. What I'm not sure about is whether the catalyst was Trump and his supporters, Fox News, or I suspect, Putin. We all know that Russia is deeply involved in our political process (just like the US tries to interfere Russia, and other countries). If their efforts succeed in getting americans to not trust any news source, their government, or their politicsal process, then I think Putin accomplished his goal. He has already won.

[Aseahawkfan]

Everyday it just seems to get worse, watching what's happening in the US. I can't think of a more harmful effect of the whole 'fake news' mantra, that has people so polarized than this pandemic. What I'm not sure about is whether the catalyst was Trump and his supporters, Fox News, or I suspect, Putin. We all know that Russia is deeply involved in our political process (just like the US tries to interfere Russia, and other countries). If their efforts succeed in getting americans to not trust any news source, their government, or their politicsal process, then I think Putin accomplished his goal. He has already won.

People been polarized by the news for years. Not sure why Trump saying "Fake news" is what people think undermined media confidence.

I've been listening to C-bob call Fox News "Faux News" for years. That is the same as saying Fake News.

The people on the opposite side been calling CNN and MSNBC the equivalent of Fake news for years.

Trump did not cause people to distrust the media. I don't give him credit for anything other than making the term "Fake news" more popular. People been calling the opposing news services "fake" and not trusting them for years. Democrats don't trust Fox news. Republicans don't trust CNN or MSNBC. This isn't new. I don't know why you pretend this is a new phenomenon.

I've been watching this trash since Rush Limbaugh first came to national prominence and Fox News became the most watched news station in America. It was likely happening before that as well. All Trump did was give it a slogan I guess.

The best I'll give you is once Dumb as Dirt and his followers are ousted, then you won't hear "fake news" near as much. If Dumb as Dirt somehow wins re-election, it will get even worse for the next four years. You best not watch right wing TV if you don't want to hear that crap.

[I-5]

Polarization has been forever, but fake news was never an issue between Mccain vs. Obama, Romney vs. Obama, Bush vs Gore, or any election before that. Disagreement on policy and outlook, yes, but even McCain defended Obama from racists. Putin has definitely succeeded, with a willing tool in Trump...and he's so easy to play, all Putin has to do is stroke his fragile ego.

[RiverDog]

I agree with parts of both you guy's arguments. ASF is right. Fake news did not start with DJT. Both conservatives and liberals are guilty of accusing each other's primary sources as being 'fake news' for decades. It's been getting progressively worse and people are being driven to opposite corners.

But Donald Trump has taken 'fake news' to a new level with his daily distortion of facts and outright lies, some due to his ignorance and stupidity, some are willful distortions meant to deflect criticism and avoid blame. There's no better example than his management of this coronavirus crisis.

[c_hawkbob]

I don't agree. Fake news may not have started with Trump but it stuck out like a sore thumb and was as easy to identify as the "Examiner"rags at the checkout lines of you local store. News sources had to be vetted and stories corroborated before release. The internet blurred that line considerably, but mostly on the internet and yes, fake news certainly found a home on the internet. TV news however, at least Network TV new for the most part remained reliable. Until Fox went all in on the Trump train (which is when I started calling them Faux news BTW, whereas a couple frequent posters here have been labeling mainstream sources "the liberal left" long before that, mostly following the lead of Rush Limbaugh). There has never been a major network news move farther from the center than Fox, not even close.

[RiverDog]

I don't agree. Fake news may not have started with Trump but it stuck out like a sore thumb and was as easy to identify as the "Examiner"rags at the checkout lines of you local store. News sources had to be vetted and stories corroborated before release. The internet blurred that line considerably, but mostly on the internet and yes, fake news certainly found a home on the internet. TV news however, at least Network TV new for the most part remained reliable. Until Fox went all in on the Trump train (which is when I started calling them Faux news BTW, whereas a couple frequent posters here have been labeling mainstream sources "the liberal left" long before that, mostly following the lead of Rush Limbaugh). There has never been a major network news move farther from the center than Fox, not even close.

Like other major news sources, Fox vets their stories and is accurate in the news they report. But they have a conservative filter that they apply to stories that pop up on the radar. It's designed to show only those stories that appeals to their audience. They won't report on stories that they don't feel will appeal to their audience. Additionally, their commentary is extremely biased, to the point where it's disgusting even to a conservative like myself. But I do like specific one-on-one interviews, such as those done by Chris Wallace, and although I used to despise him for his infatuation for Slick Willy, Geraldo Rivera has done some good work for the network. Juan Williams is a liberal contributor who frequently appears on discussion panels.

MSNBC is every bit as liberal as Fox is conservative. Chris Mathews' program "Hardball" used to have a section he entitled "All the President's Mess", a reference to "All the President's Men" of the Watergate era. His commentary rivals that of Fox's Tucker Carlson and Jesse Watters.

[Aseahawkfan]

Polarization has been forever, but fake news was never an issue between Mccain vs. Obama, Romney vs. Obama, Bush vs Gore, or any election before that. Disagreement on policy and outlook, yes, but even McCain defended Obama from racists. Putin has definitely succeeded, with a willing tool in Trump...and he's so easy to play, all Putin has to do is stroke his fragile ego.

You mean directly from the president. Most presidents don't call the media fake, though their followers or supporters do. That is true. You rarely hear politicians directly call out even the opposing news stations. They usually know how to do it without being as crass. Trump has hammered the media (and well everyone else) more directly than any president in history. He's a fake tough guy who would get his butt kicked if he did that crap directly. Trump is a weak bully who always seems to pick targets he can get away with his crap with. If he tried that crap with someone who got in his face and kicked his ass, he'd shut his mouth.

That's why I can't respect someone like IDhawkman's support of Trump. He should be able to see a fake tough guy when he runs his mouth. I doubt a Green Beret would let some jackass like Trump talk to him like Trump talks to people without getting in his face. Which is why politicians know to keep things civil, so you don't end up in a violent confrontation. Trump picks his targets carefully. That some weak ass support to throw your unwavering support behind fake tough guy who likes to bully people he knows can't hurt.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't agree. Fake news may not have started with Trump but it stuck out like a sore thumb and was as easy to identify as the "Examiner"rags at the checkout lines of you local store. News sources had to be vetted and stories corroborated before release. The internet blurred that line considerably, but mostly on the internet and yes, fake news certainly found a home on the internet. TV news however, at least Network TV new for the most part remained reliable. Until Fox went all in on the Trump train (which is when I started calling them Faux news BTW, whereas a couple frequent posters here have been labeling mainstream sources "the liberal left" long before that, mostly following the lead of Rush Limbaugh). There has never been a major network news move farther from the center than Fox, not even close.

You starting calling them "Faux" News under Trump? Hmm. I could have sworn you started that during Bush Jr. I can't specifically recall, so I'll take your word for it.

[c_hawkbob]

If you search the word faux in the search feature on this site you'll find my first reference to "Faux News" on Tue Jun 06, 2017.

I did use the word in relation to a troll (faux fan) in 2014 or 2015 or so though.

[Aseahawkfan]

Now they're reporting Trump is trying to take information gathering and delivery on COVID19 from the CDC and he is trying to defund testing and contact tracing before it even gets off the ground. Damn, getting rid of this guy truly is now a matter of life and death. Trump had better pray for a low death rate or he is going to get hammered with this during the next election. He had better be 100% right that this isn't going to kill a ton of people if the government doesn't do more.

[c_hawkbob]

With him in control of the official information you know damn well the numbers are going to go down dramatically, which is the whole point. He needs lower numbers to stop the bleeding of his poll numbers.

[Aseahawkfan]

With him in control of the official information you know damn well the numbers are going to go down dramatically, which is the whole point. He needs lower numbers to stop the bleeding of his poll numbers.

The numbers he reports are going down, but we'll see if that effects state reporting or independent reporting agencies like John Hopkin's. Then he'll have to sell a majority of America that his numbers are the truth and these other numbers are attempt to politically assassinate him. Man, I really hope America isn't dumb enough to continue to fall for Dumb as Dirt trying these third world information control tactics.

[RiverDog]

With him in control of the official information you know damn well the numbers are going to go down dramatically, which is the whole point. He needs lower numbers to stop the bleeding of his poll numbers.

The numbers he reports are going down, but we'll see if that effects state reporting or independent reporting agencies like John Hopkin's. Then he'll have to sell a majority of America that his numbers are the truth and these other numbers are attempt to politically assassinate him. Man, I really hope America isn't dumb enough to continue to fall for Dumb as Dirt trying these third world information control tactics.

Trump can only control what, and more likely when, numbers reported to the CDC. IMO what he's trying to do is push the agency to the sidelines by turning the federal government's data collection responsibilities over to a private company and take the CDC out of that loop.

I don't like what Trump is doing more than anyone else, but I can't see how they're going to be able to massage the numbers when the origination of them is the individual state and local health districts that are not responsible to the federal government. Besides, as ASF pointed out, the numbers we see daily are being collected and reported on by Johns Hopkins, not the CDC. The White House can only control what's being reported to the federal government. They can't change the numbers themselves without being called out immediately. More than likely, what Trump is trying to do is move the CDC to the back of the room and keep them from commenting on them until the White House has painted their own smiley face on them. Officials at the CDC don't seem to be overly alarmed as you would expect if it were a China-like cover up. It's a silly and desperate move and I can't see how Trump can benefit from it.

As far as Trump's poll numbers go, he's distanced himself from the coronavirus response to such a degree it's difficult for me to see how a reasonable person could conclude that Trump has any responsibility for them when they do improve. Besides, his poll numbers have dropped not only due to his response to the coronavirus, they've dropped due to his response to the BLM movement.

[c_hawkbob]

Sometimes I just have no idea what you're talking about. Trump hasn't distanced himself at all from the corona virus response, it is universally seen as his single greatest failing! That's gonna be an albatross around his neck for the rest of his life. And I have no idea how you can conclude that it has nothing to do with his poll numbers tanking. I think it's an equal contributor at least to his BLM movement response. I think his base cares a whole lot less about the latter than the former.

[RiverDog]

Sometimes I just have no idea what you're talking about. Trump hasn't distanced himself at all from the corona virus response, it is universally seen as his single greatest failing! That's gonna be an albatross around his neck for the rest of his life. And I have no idea how you can conclude that it has nothing to do with his poll numbers tanking. I think it's an equal contributor at least to his BLM movement response. I think his base cares a whole lot less about the latter than the former.

You need to read my comments in their entirety. Here's what I said about Trump's poll numbers:

Besides, his poll numbers have dropped not only due to his response to the coronavirus, they've dropped due to his response to the BLM movement.

If you had read that statement in its entirety, it seems pretty apparent that I am talking about the combination of two reasons contributing to his poll numbers tanking. In your defense, I probably should have added the word 'also' or 'too' in the second part of that statement, but you read right over the top of that first part if you think that I feel that his coronavirus response 'doesn't have anything to do with his poll numbers tanking."

And yes, I agree, his response to the coronavirus pandemic is going to be an albatross hanging from his neck...as will his response to the BLM movement, which is one of the reasons why I believe that his poll numbers aren't likely to fully rebound after the coronavirus numbers start improving, as they likely will, at least for awhile.

[c_hawkbob]

I did misread what you wrote, we were not as misaligned in our thinking as I had at first thought, my apologies.

[RiverDog]

I did misread what you wrote, we were not as misaligned in our thinking as I had at first thought, my apologies.

Apology not necessary but appreciated. Like I said, my statement wasn't perfectly worded, either.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump can only control what, and more likely when, numbers reported to the CDC. IMO what he's trying to do is push the agency to the sidelines by turning the federal government's data collection responsibilities over to a private company and take the CDC out of that loop.

I don't like what Trump is doing more than anyone else, but I can't see how they're going to be able to massage the numbers when the origination of them is the individual state and local health districts that are not responsible to the federal government. Besides, as ASF pointed out, the numbers we see daily are being collected and reported on by Johns Hopkins, not the CDC. The White House can only control what's being reported to the federal government. They can't change the numbers themselves without being called out immediately. More than likely, what Trump is trying to do is move the CDC to the back of the room and keep them from commenting on them until the White House has painted their own smiley face on them. Officials at the CDC don't seem to be overly alarmed as you would expect if it were a China-like cover up. It's a silly and desperate move and I can't see how Trump can benefit from it.

As far as Trump's poll numbers go, he's distanced himself from the coronavirus response to such a degree it's difficult for me to see how a reasonable person could conclude that Trump has any responsibility for them when they do improve. Besides, his poll numbers have dropped not only due to his response to the coronavirus, they've dropped due to his response to the BLM movement.

I also want to know if this information about the CDC is true. At the moment this CDC information is from The Washington Post, a very liberal newspaper with a strong bias against Trump. They aren't particularly trustworthy and most other stories associated with this information are being built off The Post's inside information. Also from what I understand Trump's new Chief of Staff Mark Meadows is releasing false rumors from The White House to ferret out leaks. This may be for that. We shall see. There is going to be some serious information warfare going on by the new Chief of Staff to get rid of people who leak info. That may lead to an uptick in rumor-mongering as The White House tries to set up the media through leaked information.

One thing I try to avoid is getting led around by the nose by the media. I don't enjoy trickery one way or the other.

[RiverDog]

I also want to know if this information about the CDC is true. At the moment this CDC information is from The Washington Post, a very liberal newspaper with a strong bias against Trump. They aren't particularly trustworthy and most other stories associated with this information are being built off The Post's inside information. Also from what I understand Trump's new Chief of Staff Mark Meadows is releasing false rumors from The White House to ferret out leaks. This may be for that. We shall see. There is going to be some serious information warfare going on by the new Chief of Staff to get rid of people who leak info. That may lead to an uptick in rumor-mongering as The White House tries to set up the media through leaked information.

One thing I try to avoid is getting led around by the nose by the media. I don't enjoy trickery one way or the other.

The Administration has taken the CDC out of the information collection business. It's a fact that has been reported through multiple sources, including Fox News. Here's the stated purpose:

Michael R. Caputo, a Health and Human Services spokesman, told the New York Times, which first reported the shift, that “the new, faster and complete data system is what our nation needs to defeat the coronavirus, and the CDC, an operating division of HHS, will certainly participate in this streamlined all-of-government response. They will simply no longer control it.”

“Today, the CDC still has at least a week lag in reporting hospital data,” Caputo said in a statement. “America requires it in real time.”

The data will be used to inform decisions at the federal level, including the allocation of personal protective gear, the drug remdesivir, and other supplies, treatments and resources, according to a document on the Health and Human Services website.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/hospital-cor ... n-services

Whether or not you believe their stated reasoning is up to you guys. Personally I'm not that alarmed because they can't change the actual numbers. At least in this state, our hospitals reports their information to the state (in the form of local health districts) and the state forwards that information to the federal government.

[Aseahawkfan]

The Administration has taken the CDC out of the information collection business. It's a fact that has been reported through multiple sources, including Fox News. Here's the stated purpose:

Michael R. Caputo, a Health and Human Services spokesman, told the New York Times, which first reported the shift, that “the new, faster and complete data system is what our nation needs to defeat the coronavirus, and the CDC, an operating division of HHS, will certainly participate in this streamlined all-of-government response. They will simply no longer control it.”

“Today, the CDC still has at least a week lag in reporting hospital data,” Caputo said in a statement. “America requires it in real time.”

The data will be used to inform decisions at the federal level, including the allocation of personal protective gear, the drug remdesivir, and other supplies, treatments and resources, according to a document on the Health and Human Services website.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/hospital-cor ... n-services

Whether or not you believe their stated reasoning is up to you guys. Personally I'm not that alarmed because they can't change the actual numbers. At least in this state, our hospitals reports their information to the state (in the form of local health districts) and the state forwards that information to the federal government.

Glad you posted this. This is what I'm talking about. The liberal media is reporting this as Trump trying to hide the numbers rather than improved information. Good to know.