Should Biden Debate Trump?

[c_hawkbob]

I'd never call you an idiot. In all sincerity, I regard you as one of the more informed posters on the board. But I do feel that anyone who predicts or thinks that it's anything other than very unlikely that Trump would be removed from office in a 2nd term would hold a minority opinion. The fact that he has a 42% approval rating would support that contention.

I understand that to be your opinion, I quite simply disagree with you.

[Aseahawkfan]

So you think that Chuck Schumer, by not protecting Trump, will be able to flip the 15 or so R Senators needed to remove him from office? I think you're grossly over estimating Sen. Schumer's credibility amongst the Republicans.

I don't care who the majority leader is or isn't, the Dems will never get enough R's to give up Trump unless he does something far, far more egregious than the charges they levied at him earlier.

We'll see. If I were an R, I'd be itching to give up Trump and laugh at him, while blaming the Dems for all the chaos from their trial. I know some Rs like Romney and likely more than a few others can't stand that dumb mfer.

[RiverDog]

We'll see. If I were an R, I'd be itching to give up Trump and laugh at him, while blaming the Dems for all the chaos from their trial. I know some Rs like Romney and likely more than a few others can't stand that dumb mfer.

So long as Trump controls the base, and if that base is big enough to get him re-elected, there aren't going to be very many R's that will have the guts to challenge him. Regardless of what they might say in private, if one thing has been proven over the past 3.5 years, it's that Trump has the Republicans by the balls.

The impeachment charges levied against Trump, in my humble opinion, were pretty darn serious as he was openly trying to bribe the head of state of another government to dig up dirt on his chief political opponent. Yet the only Republican Senator that voted for impeachment was Romney, and even he might have flinched if not for the fact that he comes from one of the reddest states in the Union.

[Aseahawkfan]

So long as Trump controls the base, and if that base is big enough to get him re-elected, there aren't going to be very many R's that will have the guts to challenge him. Regardless of what they might say in private, if one thing has been proven over the past 3.5 years, it's that Trump has the Republicans by the balls.

The impeachment charges levied against Trump, in my humble opinion, were pretty darn serious as he was openly trying to bribe the head of state of another government to dig up dirt on his chief political opponent. Yet the only Republican Senator that voted for impeachment was Romney, and even he might have flinched if not for the fact that he comes from one of the reddest states in the Union.

Why not? If it's his lame duck term why care? Once Trump leaves office at 78, all his power evaporates. If he got re-elected, I'd be a huge jerk to him. What is he going to do? He's done in 4 years. No will even remember his crazy ass other than the loons who think he was a good president.

I seriously doubt anyone who can draw Trump's level of support and power runs after Trump. He's a one off footnote in history when America elected a reality TV star, real estate billionaire as president with a powerful, chaotic charisma. No one else will be like Trump any time soon. He's an anomaly who will have no real power after he is elected that the Republicans will want to wash out of their system like bad food after he leaves.

[RiverDog]

Why not? If it's his lame duck term why care? Once Trump leaves office at 78, all his power evaporates. If he got re-elected, I'd be a huge jerk to him. What is he going to do? He's done in 4 years. No will even remember his crazy ass other than the loons who think he was a good president.

The R's aren't afraid of Trump, they are afraid of his base. You've noted the same phenomena as the rest of us have, that Trump has a very strong and unique hold over a huge majority of the Republican base. Despite his bungling of the coronavirus pandemic, he still has over a 90% job approval rating amongst Republicans. Any R pol that goes against Trump does so at the risk of alienating their own constituents. Nothing about his lame duck status changes that part of his power in a potential 2nd term.

I seriously doubt anyone who can draw Trump's level of support and power runs after Trump. He's a one off footnote in history when America elected a reality TV star, real estate billionaire as president with a powerful, chaotic charisma. No one else will be like Trump any time soon. He's an anomaly who will have no real power after he is elected that the Republicans will want to wash out of their system like bad food after he leaves.

I agree that Trump's an anomaly, at least I sure hope he is. It's been one of the biggest shocks in my lifetime, how anyone can so blatantly lie and twist facts like he does yet maintains such a tight grip over so many people. It's shaken my confidence in the judgement of the American people to its core, that they have such a difficult time separating fact from fiction. That's why I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of him getting removed from office in a 2nd term. If his behavior over the past 3.5 years wasn't enough to get him booted, I can't imagine it ever being bad enough to get him in a 2nd term. The bar for removal from office is just too high, especially as divided as this country is nowadays.

But the washing out of that bad taste in Republican's mouths, at least publicly, won't occur until Trump is either defeated at the polls this November or he leaves office 4 years later.

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree that Trump's an anomaly, at least I sure hope he is. It's been one of the biggest shocks in my lifetime, how anyone can so blatantly lie and twist facts like he does yet maintains such a tight grip over so many people. It's shaken my confidence in the judgement of the American people to its core, that they have such a difficult time separating fact from fiction. That's why I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell of him getting removed from office in a 2nd term. If his behavior over the past 3.5 years wasn't enough to get him booted, I can't imagine it ever being bad enough to get him in a 2nd term. The bar for removal from office is just too high, especially as divided as this country is nowadays.

But the washing out of that bad taste in Republican's mouths, at least publicly, won't occur until Trump is either defeated at the polls this November or he leaves office 4 years later.

Look, I have no idea why you don't want to buy into this other than you dislike him, but Trump has a weird charismatic intensity. He's not as evil as someone like Hitler, Mussolini, or Stalin, but he has that kind of charismatic intensity. It's why he does so well in front of the cameras and has his whole life. The closest American comparison would be Huey P. Long or a less likable Kennedy. The difference between Kennedy's charisma is that Kennedy had a likable personality and a way of speaking that was used to unite the nation. Whereas Trump uses his charisma to rile people up against each other and sell people that he is this powerful leader standing up to America's enemies, against the leftists progressives looking to tear down our nation's history and power, and that he will lead them to prosperity and greatness again against all Americas enemies foreign and domestic. He is driving the right against the left.

What else do you call that type of ability? A guy who can sell nearly half the nation on his ability to provide them with what they seemingly desire in terms of politics. A guy who can convince someone like IDhawkman to practically worship him and view him as better than Reagan. A guy that can rile you and c-bob and I5 and so many people up. The man has a powerful personality, whether you are for him or against him. He's used it well to build himself up into this Trump character he plays on TV. I have no idea if he even believes half of what comes out of his mouth. I know he's always had that magnetic, charismatic personality that attracts many and repels many. He's a different kind of uniquely American persona we won't see again in our lifetime after he leaves the presidency and passes.

I doubt the Senate or House flips enough to take Trump down unless he does something more obviously criminal. Right now most Trump supporters I know think that Trump showing Joe BIden's son was engaged in activities they view as criminal in Ukraine believe Trump was trying to do the right thing by calling out Joe Biden on his Ukraine dealings, which the Democrats did not do. In their minds the Deep State aka the Democrats are more criminal than Trump and have done more wrong that no one in the government but Trump is investigating. That narrative is very easy to build on because Hunter Biden's dealings in Ukraine are very shady, even if the Democrats claim they are legal.

I find it hard to believe that you and Hawktawk think that Hunter Biden's Gazprom's activities were ok. I understand why c-bob and I5 don't are much about the Democrats illegal activities as I've never heard either question the Clinton's criminal activities or any of the Democrats shady dealings, but you and Hawktawk surprise me as you should be able to see through the game. I can only imagine you're so focused on the Trump hate, you're willing to ignore all the shady Democrat moves in this whole situation. For someone like me though, the government has done nothing the past 20 years now but show me that Democrats and Republicans are both a group of shady, entrenched characters running our government for interests other than common, working Americans who throw us scraps, while the wealthy and powerful collect just about every other part of the meal for our sacrifices. Neither of these parties are a worth much when it comes to helping regular Americans have a country they can believe in and is run well with good values. They're just different ways of screwing us over, while they line their pockets and the pockets of their rich friends.

[RiverDog]

Look, I have no idea why you don't want to buy into this other than you dislike him, but Trump has a weird charismatic intensity.

Buy into what? That someone like Trump can so blatantly lie and twist facts yet maintain such a tight grip on otherwise intelligent people like Idahawkman?

I doubt the Senate or House flips enough to take Trump down unless he does something more obviously criminal.

Agreed. The Dems would have to flip at least 15 seats and get it close enough to where enough moderate Republicans come out of the closet and give up Trump, and even that scenario is far fetched as if the Dems do flip that many seats, the R's most likely to have lost would be moderates like Susan Collins and Cory Gardner, leaving the R's as a whole more pro Trump than they are now.

I find it hard to believe that you and Hawktawk think that Hunter Biden's Gazprom's activities were ok.

Now where did I say that? I never once said anything that could even remotely be interpreted as approval of Hunter Biden's activities, to the contrary, I think they were despicable. What I said was that it's old news and unlikely to be able to be used effectively against Joe Biden in the campaign.

[Aseahawkfan]

Now where did I say that? I never once said anything that could even remotely be interpreted as approval of Hunter Biden's activities, to the contrary, I think they were despicable. What I said was that it's old news and unlikely to be able to be used effectively against Joe Biden in the campaign.

That you can't see the hypocrisy of investigating Trump for his Russian connections that the Democrats engineered against him while not raising a finger to investigate people like Joe Biden or there other members who also take advantage of these relationships for political and financial gain. Once again I point out what is clear evidence: The FBI investigation was started due to a dossier of information obtained by a foreign spy using Russian connections to build a case against Donald Trump financed by supporters of Hilary Clinton and then Clinton herself. I really have no idea why you and Hawktawk think that was ok. I get why folks I5 and C-bob don't care, I never seen c-bob attack a Democratic president in 15 plus years of posting and he attacked Bush Jr and now Trump relentlessly. Just overlooks Democrat criminality and corruption like it doesn't matter.

That is why so many Trump supporters overlook it because they look at the Democrats and leftists as throwing all these resources to investigate Trump and his cohorts, while they're betting if the same resources were thrown at Nancy Pelosi, Schumer, Biden, or the like they would find the same level of corruption and criminality.

Even I have to ask, would they be wrong? We will never know will we? But it sure seems like nearly every one of them flouts the law when they can and would likely crumble under the same level of scrutiny.

The reality is as long as both sides of the political spectrum gives a pass to the other side's criminality and corruption, it will never end. The American people as a whole right now should be looking to clean house on these parties, but they aren't. They're just picking sides talking about the "lesser of two evils." It's hypocrisy at it's worst. How do you even hope for a well run and decent nation if that is all your people are aspiring too?

[RiverDog]

That you can't see the hypocrisy of investigating Trump for his Russian connections that the Democrats engineered against him while not raising a finger to investigate people like Joe Biden or there other members who also take advantage of these relationships for political and financial gain.

Hunter Biden has never been elected to an office nor has he ever been appointed to one. He is not an employee of the federal government. Likewise, Joe Biden hasn't held an office for over 3 years and like his son, is not a federal employee. Trump is. That's a huge difference. There is no evidence that Joe Biden, as VP or as a Senator, ever used his office or his name to curry favor for his son. What his son did was despicable as he was attempting to profit financially from his old man's name and in doing so, presented a huge conflict of interest for the elder Biden, but there's no evidence that anything illegal occurred. The situation pales in comparison to Trump's attempts as POTUS to withhold previously approved funds to extract a political favor out of a foreign government. IMO it was a clear abuse of his office.

If the FBI could produce substantial evidence that Joe Biden abused his office for personal gain for him or his family, I would support an investigation. But you don't investigate private citizens unless there's substantial evidence that they broke the law.

[I-5]

Maybe I missed something....was there something criminal about the Hunter Biden situation? Why does ASF keep coming back to this?

[c_hawkbob]

Maybe I missed something....was there something criminal about the Hunter Biden situation? Why does ASF keep coming back to this?

I think not without accepting some foundational assumptions as fact.

[RiverDog]

Maybe I missed something....was there something criminal about the Hunter Biden situation? Why does ASF keep coming back to this?

I think not without accepting some foundational assumptions as fact.

A Senate committee, composed of 8 R's and 6 D's and whose votes have gone down strictly partisan lines, has been investigating the Ukrainian company that the younger Biden served on the board of directors for and is scheduled to release its report very soon.

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/517 ... den-report

There's also some questionable financial issues regarding Hunter Biden, how he was supposedly too broke to make child support payments to an ex stripper yet he was able to pay off unpaid state income taxes of $450,000.

https://nypost.com/2020/08/10/hunter-bi ... ys-report/

Hunter Biden sounds like a real sleazy character, but there's nothing that I can see that would indicate that his father did anything to assist or enable him. Sounds a lot like Jimmy Carter's brother Billy.

[Aseahawkfan]

Hunter Biden has never been elected to an office nor has he ever been appointed to one. He is not an employee of the federal government. Likewise, Joe Biden hasn't held an office for over 3 years and like his son, is not a federal employee. Trump is. That's a huge difference. There is no evidence that Joe Biden, as VP or as a Senator, ever used his office or his name to curry favor for his son. What his son did was despicable as he was attempting to profit financially from his old man's name and in doing so, presented a huge conflict of interest for the elder Biden, but there's no evidence that anything illegal occurred. The situation pales in comparison to Trump's attempts as POTUS to withhold previously approved funds to extract a political favor out of a foreign government. IMO it was a clear abuse of his office.

If the FBI could produce substantial evidence that Joe Biden abused his office for personal gain for him or his family, I would support an investigation. But you don't investigate private citizens unless there's substantial evidence that they broke the law.

Do you really believe that? I do not. I believe the charges against Trump were manufactured. I believe you could manufacture similar charges against most of the politicians in Washington D.C. if the same level of scrutiny were on them. I believe Joe Biden has even more skeletons in his closest and likely is able to avoid them because he has enough connections to avoid the scrutiny.

Suffice it to say your trust in Biden and other politician's innocence exceeds mine. I do think they are comparable insofar as the Democrats attempted to politically assassinate Trump with trumped up charges based on activities they do all the time. I have zero doubt that Biden did interfere in investigations into his son. I think he did so using political connections. If the same level of scrutiny were applied to Hilary Clinton or Biden, you would find similar levels of interaction with foreign parties just as Hilary used a dossier that employed a British spy to contact Russian contacts to manufacture a dossier against Trump. This is literally what was done, but for some reason people like yourself, I5,Hawktawk and C-bob won't acknowledge this literal fact of the investigation into Trump because you dislike him so much.

The facts are clear and evident. Hunter Biden had access to connections in the Ukraine due to his father which he leveraged to gain money. Because Biden wasn't charged has little to do with the ethical issue involved and more to do with his father having sufficient power to prevent prosecution and quash evidence. Hilary got a pass because the anti-Trump crowd was so focused on his destruction that they never went, "Wait a minute. so you're using a dossier given to the F.B.I. by Clinton associates paid for by political groups against Trump employing a British agent to use Russian contacts to manufacture information on Trump to frame him as a Russian Spy?"

Sorry, you want to put your head in the sand over this bid to take out Trump have at it. I can see the flow of what happened and don't need an investigation to see what was done was not ethical and likely not legal and the investigation was quashed due to the power of the individuals involved. I acknowledge that is the game, but I don't believe it. This was an orchestrated attempt to take out a president by a variety of powerful political players including the Clintons, anti-Trump Republicans, the Obamas, and likely Biden and some in his camp. I believe it is of questionable legality as is much of what is done in Washington D.C.. It is definitely not ethical. But at the same time I understand that if you want to play in that arena, you need to be willing and able to do things like this to win. Honest, integrity, and the like are just words to sway the public in Washington D.C., not what these people truly follow or believe in.

But Trump has done much the same. He's just the outsider that hasn't figured out how to manage the political attacks yet, but is apparently learning. If he survives another election, he may be able to do even more to attack his enemies. I think that is the real Democratic concern in this election. If he wins and the Congress doesn't flip, he'll be coming for more of his enemies.

[RiverDog]

Hunter Biden has never been elected to an office nor has he ever been appointed to one. He is not an employee of the federal government. Likewise, Joe Biden hasn't held an office for over 3 years and like his son, is not a federal employee. Trump is. That's a huge difference. There is no evidence that Joe Biden, as VP or as a Senator, ever used his office or his name to curry favor for his son. What his son did was despicable as he was attempting to profit financially from his old man's name and in doing so, presented a huge conflict of interest for the elder Biden, but there's no evidence that anything illegal occurred. The situation pales in comparison to Trump's attempts as POTUS to withhold previously approved funds to extract a political favor out of a foreign government. IMO it was a clear abuse of his office.

If the FBI could produce substantial evidence that Joe Biden abused his office for personal gain for him or his family, I would support an investigation. But you don't investigate private citizens unless there's substantial evidence that they broke the law.

Do you really believe that? I do not. I believe the charges against Trump were manufactured. I believe you could manufacture similar charges against most of the politicians in Washington D.C. if the same level of scrutiny were on them. I believe Joe Biden has even more skeletons in his closest and likely is able to avoid them because he has enough connections to avoid the scrutiny.

Yes, I believe it. There were taped conversations backed up by eyewitness/earwitness testimony and it corresponded with the impoundment of funds. Even many Republicans admitted that what Trump did was wrong, perhaps illegal, but their argument was that it didn't rise to the level of impeachment.

Suffice it to say your trust in Biden and other politician's innocence exceeds mine. I do think they are comparable insofar as the Democrats attempted to politically assassinate Trump with trumped up charges based on activities they do all the time. I have zero doubt that Biden did interfere in investigations into his son. I think he did so using political connections. If the same level of scrutiny were applied to Hilary Clinton or Biden, you would find similar levels of interaction with foreign parties just as Hilary used a dossier that employed a British spy to contact Russian contacts to manufacture a dossier against Trump. This is literally what was done, but for some reason people like yourself, I5,Hawktawk and C-bob won't acknowledge this literal fact of the investigation into Trump because you dislike him so much.

The facts are clear and evident. Hunter Biden had access to connections in the Ukraine due to his father which he leveraged to gain money.

I have no doubt that the sole reason Hunter Biden was hired by the Ukrainian company was due to his father's name. But that's not illegal. People get hired and make money off their last name all the time.

[Hawktawk]

Wow I am away for a while and Asea is back on the Trump bandwagon. Sorry Asea I dont see it.Nothing regarding the most corrupt american president in history was manufactured.

Let's go back to russian meddling for starters. Just a couple of weeks ago the REPUBLICAN LED INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE issued a 1000 page report detailing 240 clandestine contacts between Trump people and Russian agents, oligarchs etc.Paul Manafort is described as an "extreme risk to national security" in the report.Mueller's findings of exchanges of polling data from battleground precincts in battleground states from Paul Manafort and Rick Gates to a russian Oligarch in a NY cigar bar owned by jarred boy was verified.

Another recent news dump revealed that Rod Rosenstein was a double agent. He publicly ordered Mueller to examine "any and all" contacts and business between Trump and Russia but privately ordered Mueller not to look into Trump's business entanglements with Russia but only focus on criminal campaign violations. Former NSA director appointed by Trump Dan Coates has said he believes Russia has something on Trump which is clear to any objective person.

After all that Russian monkey business Trump picked up the phone to try to jam the ukrainian president ONE DAY after Mueller testified to the congress, among other things calling his actions"unamerican, generally speaking".

Dozens of career state department people detailed his illegal acts.Ill stand with Fiona Hill and Alexander Vindman over the king of treason any day. Anyone who thinks the Republican 2012 Presidential candidate would weep openly as he became the first senator of a president's party to vote to convict in the history of america for spite is delusional. Its clear to any objective person. As RD points out numerous REPUBLICAN SENATORS trashed Trump while voting to acquit. Marco Rubio basically said it was impeachable conduct but would have been too hard on the country.

Ill tell you what's hard on the country. DJT. He's the worst least popular first term president ever in terms of a high water mark. He has never once tried to unite the american people and as General Mattis, Yakima native and american hero said"he tries to divide us".

Not sure what all this charisma talk is about. He's a boorish Ahole.If less than 50% of people like you you are not charismatic. His popularity says a lot more about 45% of america than it does this stink bloated ass clown. He's an orange idiot. This cult has eaten the brains of good patriotic americans to where I truly can see how hitler could rise.

Honest to God of course Biden isn't pure as the driven snow but he's been in public life a long time and hasn't lined his pockets, living much more modest than other presidential contenders. His son Hunter was called a "man skank" by a female MSNBC host. Everybody knows he's sleazy. But I agree he's Billy Carter.All kinds of people sat on the Burisma board with no other experience than being connected. Sleazy but not illegal.

And Jarred boy and Donnie Jr and eric and Svetlana aren't sleazy? :Talk about profiting off the presidency and having nepotism. There are 12 separate requests for documents involving investigations of his business empire for such things as tax fraud, illegal campaign finance violations,misuse of the inauguration fund of 100 million. This is the sleaziest man in the history of the presidency. He could well be the first ever jailed ex president minus a Biden pardon. God forbid he should steal another term somehow. The 25th rape victim came forth a week ago and of course that doesn't make the front page any more hes dumbed down the dignity of the office so far.
I dont give a flying F about Bidens warts or skeletons in the closet. He will be better, anyone would.He will try to unite america. Id vote for a potted plant. It would be an improvement.

Proud to have the "Trump hate" . Hes worth hating.

[Hawktawk]

Asea the Steele report was commissioned by an anti Trump REPUBLICAN RESEARCH GROUP. Hillary did access it at some point but never used it in any capacity in her campaign so it had no effect on the presidential election. The FBI looked at it and financed some more investigation by Chris Steele, highly respected british agent.

Very little of the dossier has been disproven. Including the golden showers incident with Trump and Russian hookers in the Moscow Ritz Carlton presidential suite during the world Jr Miss pageant in 2013. Steele alleged it was filmed by Russian agents and Putin is using it as blackmail. I haven't really had to dig too deep into known facts, statements by Trump , his bodyguard under oath, testimony from Jim Comey before the congress to conclude it probably happened . Cohens book details how he cleaned up another film from another aquatic party in las vegas so that kind of demonstrates a pattern of utter depravity.Putin sure as hell has something on him, maybe lots of things.

Ill trust christopher Steele, Jim Comey, Bob Mueller, etc etc etc any day over the treason king.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yes, I believe it. There were taped conversations backed up by eyewitness/earwitness testimony and it corresponded with the impoundment of funds. Even many Republicans admitted that what Trump did was wrong, perhaps illegal, but their argument was that it didn't rise to the level of impeachment.

Those are just words to walk the line and state the obvious. You may need direct evidence, I do not. I have little doubt what Trump did happens all the time and Trump's only mistake was doing it in a stupid manner.

Just like I believe Biden went off the record with his son to push Ukrainian officials to drop cases against his son but wasn't stupid enough to do it in a place where could be outed.

That is where we differ. You seem to need absolute evidence something happened, whereas all I need is the experience of seeing this type of behavior done for the entire history of the United States without punishment. Only a fraction of the worst incidents have come close to taking down politicians involved and even most of them have been deflected by sacrificing key players and then getting them out of trouble later like with Nixon.

Trump is a political neophyte who hires and finds those capable of pushing the politics his way as he goes along.

I have no doubt that the sole reason Hunter Biden was hired by the Ukrainian company was due to his father's name. But that's not illegal. People get hired and make money off their last name all the time.

And the fact you believe just hiring him was all that was done shows where your head is: in the sand with most of America.

[Aseahawkfan]

Wow I am away for a while and Asea is back on the Trump bandwagon. Sorry Asea I dont see it.Nothing regarding the most corrupt american president in history was manufactured.

Let's go back to russian meddling for starters. Just a couple of weeks ago the REPUBLICAN LED INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE issued a 1000 page report detailing 240 clandestine contacts between Trump people and Russian agents, oligarchs etc.Paul Manafort is described as an "extreme risk to national security" in the report.Mueller's findings of exchanges of polling data from battleground precincts in battleground states from Paul Manafort and Rick Gates to a russian Oligarch in a NY cigar bar owned by jarred boy was verified.

Another recent news dump revealed that Rod Rosenstein was a double agent. He publicly ordered Mueller to examine "any and all" contacts and business between Trump and Russia but privately ordered Mueller not to look into Trump's business entanglements with Russia but only focus on criminal campaign violations. Former NSA director appointed by Trump Dan Coates has said he believes Russia has something on Trump which is clear to any objective person.

After all that Russian monkey business Trump picked up the phone to try to jam the ukrainian president ONE DAY after Mueller testified to the congress, among other things calling his actions"unamerican, generally speaking".

Dozens of career state department people detailed his illegal acts.Ill stand with Fiona Hill and Alexander Vindman over the king of treason any day. Anyone who thinks the Republican 2012 Presidential candidate would weep openly as he became the first senator of a president's party to vote to convict in the history of america for spite is delusional. Its clear to any objective person. As RD points out numerous REPUBLICAN SENATORS trashed Trump while voting to acquit. Marco Rubio basically said it was impeachable conduct but would have been too hard on the country.

Ill tell you what's hard on the country. DJT. He's the worst least popular first term president ever in terms of a high water mark. He has never once tried to unite the american people and as General Mattis, Yakima native and american hero said"he tries to divide us".

Not sure what all this charisma talk is about. He's a boorish Ahole.If less than 50% of people like you you are not charismatic. His popularity says a lot more about 45% of america than it does this stink bloated ass clown. He's an orange idiot. This cult has eaten the brains of good patriotic americans to where I truly can see how hitler could rise.

Honest to God of course Biden isn't pure as the driven snow but he's been in public life a long time and hasn't lined his pockets, living much more modest than other presidential contenders. His son Hunter was called a "man skank" by a female MSNBC host. Everybody knows he's sleazy. But I agree he's Billy Carter.All kinds of people sat on the Burisma board with no other experience than being connected. Sleazy but not illegal.

And Jarred boy and Donnie Jr and eric and Svetlana aren't sleazy? :Talk about profiting off the presidency and having nepotism. There are 12 separate requests for documents involving investigations of his business empire for such things as tax fraud, illegal campaign finance violations,misuse of the inauguration fund of 100 million. This is the sleaziest man in the history of the presidency. He could well be the first ever jailed ex president minus a Biden pardon. God forbid he should steal another term somehow. The 25th rape victim came forth a week ago and of course that doesn't make the front page any more hes dumbed down the dignity of the office so far.
I dont give a flying F about Bidens warts or skeletons in the closet. He will be better, anyone would.He will try to unite america. Id vote for a potted plant. It would be an improvement.

Proud to have the "Trump hate" . Hes worth hating.

The fact that you associate only Trump with nefarious activity shows you don't care about this country or what is done with it. You just care about what you think while you ignore all the other absolutely trash behavior by our politicians. All you care about is bringing down Trump, while you ignore all the other examples of corruption and hypocrisy. There are literally documented historical examples of worse and more costly illegal and costly in human life and money political moves by our politicians including some of your friends like Reagan that you completely overlook. Which is why I can't take the lot of you seriously at this point.

I haven't seen many people on this board who truly want anything better for this nation than voting for the lesser of two evils and overlooking all the wrong done over and over and over and over again by these politicians. It doesn't matter to the American people any more.

All they care about is venting their rage at whichever side they're against and believing whatever propaganda comes out. The American people deserve what they get if they cannot at some point rise above this current political corruption and partisan scumbaggery. You included. You are one the most willing to overlook the corruption in our government as long as it suits your opinion on this board. You are so focused on Trump you would let Democrats or anyone burn our constitution to the ground if they could find a way to rid of Trump.

You are not country or over party.

You are hate Trump over party over religion over the American people and over everything. That's exactly where you have been driven by all this propaganda just as the pro-Trump people are driven to believe supporting Trump somehow helps the nation.

America has no vision for this country. It's just a bunch of people dragged around by their eyes and ears by the media, manipulated by politicians, and with no vision for the nation. The people no longer govern, they just vote what they have been manipulated to vote for.

It's a shame too. That Constitution really is a great guiding document. It is too bad a lack of education and real understanding of it as well as a huge number of corrupt, venal, and hypocritical poilticians with campaign managers intend to ruin it.

[RiverDog]

Just like I believe Biden went off the record with his son to push Ukrainian officials to drop cases against his son but wasn't stupid enough to do it in a place where could be outed.

That is where we differ. You seem to need absolute evidence something happened, whereas all I need is the experience of seeing this type of behavior done for the entire history of the United States without punishment.

"Absolute" evidence? That's your term, and you're using it just so you can dramatize your argument. I prefer to call it what most people refer to it as: Credible evidence.

I have no doubt that the sole reason Hunter Biden was hired by the Ukrainian company was due to his father's name. But that's not illegal. People get hired and make money off their last name all the time.

And the fact you believe just hiring him was all that was done shows where your head is: in the sand with most of America.

Once again, you're putting words in my mouth. Re-read the statement of mine that you quoted and tell me where it was that I said that I "believe just hiring him was all that was done".

[Hawktawk]

Asea Your at the point of calling people who support Trump loons, calling him an idiot etc. Then you want to lecture us if we vehemently agree with you X1000????. There has NEVER been a president this bad, this lawless, this chaotic, this corrupt. Biden will be better starting with better as a human being. We cant survive 4 more years of Trump, 4 more months is scary enough, especially if he loses. Its a clear choice . no nose holding needed.

Yes all politicians are sleazy. Even Mitt flipped the 2024 switch on with his falling in line with Moscow Mitch. F them all. Nothing about a Biden Presidency excites me other than a clear and present danger to americans sovereignty and very existence as a nation is out of there.Theres sleazy then theres Trump.

[RiverDog]

Yes all politicians are sleazy. Even Mitt flipped the 2024 switch on with his falling in line with Moscow Mitch. F them all. Nothing about a Biden Presidency excites me other than a clear and present danger to americans sovereignty and very existence as a nation is out of there.Theres sleazy then theres Trump.

There is nothing novel about nominating a SCOTUS justice during an election year nor nothing unique in confirming them within 45 days of an election.

The hypocrisy and sleaze isn't with Trump, it's with McConnell and the R Senators who were there in 2016 when they made a highly partisan decision to refuse to consider a SCOTUS nomination, using the twisted logic that the American people should have a say. McConnell is the one that has to defend his position, not Trump.

As far as Romney goes, he wasn't in the Senate in 2016 when McConnell held up Obama's appointment so he's the least sleazy.

[I-5]

There is nothing novel about nominating a SCOTUS justice during an election year nor nothing unique in confirming them within 45 days of an election.

The hypocrisy and sleaze isn't with Trump, it's with McConnell and the R Senators who were there in 2016 when they made a highly partisan decision to refuse to consider a SCOTUS nomination, using the twisted logic that the American people should have a say. McConnell is the one that has to defend his position, not Trump.

As far as Romney goes, he wasn't in the Senate in 2016 when McConnell held up Obama's appointment so he's the least sleazy.

Agreed, it's that twisted logic I mentioned in the other thread.

[I-5]

Debate topics have been announced. They are subject to change based on "news developments," but the six segments will be:

- The Trump and Biden Records
- The Supreme Court
- Covid-19
- The Economy
- Race and Violence in our Cities
- The Integrity of the Election

I don't think they're going to do this, but I REALLY wish they test both candidates for drugs. In the last presidential debates with Hillary, I'm convinced Trump was on coke.

[RiverDog]

Debate topics have been announced. They are subject to change based on "news developments," but the six segments will be:

- The Trump and Biden Records
- The Supreme Court
- Covid-19
- The Economy
- Race and Violence in our Cities
- The Integrity of the Election

I don't think they're going to do this, but I REALLY wish they test both candidates for drugs. In the last presidential debates with Hillary, I'm convinced Trump was on coke.

The first debate will be held this coming Tuesday, Sept. 29th, 6:00 pm PT. Each debate subject will be aprox. 15 minutes long, with the total debate lasting 90 minutes. There will be a very limited in-person audience. That probably plays in Biden's favor as Trump seems to draw emotional strength from his supporters more so than Biden does his.

I'd say that the chances of Trump being on coke is pretty much nil. As leaky as the White House staff is, that rumor would have leaked out to the mostly liberal White House press corps years ago. As Slick Willy can attest, a President does not have a private life, at least not while they're in office.

[Aseahawkfan]

Debate topics have been announced. They are subject to change based on "news developments," but the six segments will be:

- The Trump and Biden Records
- The Supreme Court
- Covid-19
- The Economy
- Race and Violence in our Cities
- The Integrity of the Election

I don't think they're going to do this, but I REALLY wish they test both candidates for drugs. In the last presidential debates with Hillary, I'm convinced Trump was on coke.

Trump to my knowledge has zero history of using either drugs or alcohol due to familial problems with those substances. Do you have some evidence of Trump using drugs or alcohol?

He's nutty all on his own.

[I-5]

Whether or not he's on it, I would welcome substance testing for debates. How often do you hear Trump sniffing loudly? I never had, except for the final 2 debates with Hillary in 2016 - it was quite noticeable. Interestingly, I haven't heard him sniff loudly since, then. I will be watching if the sniffles make a return at the first debate next week.

[RiverDog]

I don't think they're going to do this, but I REALLY wish they test both candidates for drugs. In the last presidential debates with Hillary, I'm convinced Trump was on coke.

Trump to my knowledge has zero history of using either drugs or alcohol due to familial problems with those substances. Do you have some evidence of Trump using drugs or alcohol?

He's nutty all on his own.

Trump's brother died at age 43 due to alcoholism in 1981. Trump doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, and doesn't even drink coffee. That does not fit the profile of a coke head.

There is no way that they can mandate a drug test for presidential candidates because it's not a requirement for holding federal office. Same with Senators and Representatives. To do so would be to add a qualification not prescribed in the Constitution, ie that they must be drug free.

[RiverDog]

Whether or not he's on it, I would welcome substance testing for debates. How often do you hear Trump sniffing loudly? I never had, except for the final 2 debates with Hillary in 2016 - it was quite noticeable. Interestingly, I haven't heard him sniff loudly since, then. I will be watching if the sniffles make a return at the first debate next week.

Now Trump is insisting that Biden take a drug test before or shortly after the debate, saying that he'd take one, too. I have the perfect response, and I'm surprised that someone in the Biden camp hasn't thought of it, too.

If I were Biden, I'd come out and say that I'd take a drug test and make the results public if Donald Trump will take a GED level geography quiz and make the results public. That or have him take a citizenship test.

[NorthHawk]

Just more blather from the king of distractions.
If I were Biden I would say sure, if you release your taxes. Trump won't do that willingly, so it would shut Trump up.

[RiverDog]

Just more blather from the king of distractions.
If I were Biden I would say sure, if you release your taxes. Trump won't do that willingly, so it would shut Trump up.

That won't work as the press has already leaked that he paid just $750 yet he's claiming that he paid "millions". Flunking a geography quiz or a citizenship test would be a lot harder to spin out of than a complicated tax return.

[I-5]

Not that it would change anything. His supporters themselves wouldn't care if he didn't know Africa isn't a country.

[RiverDog]

Not that it would change anything. His supporters themselves wouldn't care if he didn't know Africa isn't a country.

Oh, I understand that it wouldn't change anything either amongst his supporters or his detractors. But would be a classic comeback. If Trump wants Biden to prove that he's not a drug head, then let Trump prove to Biden that he's not a moron.

[NorthHawk]

[quote That won't work as the press has already leaked that he paid just $750 yet he's claiming that he paid "millions". Flunking a geography quiz or a citizenship test would be a lot harder to spin out of than a complicated tax return][/quote]

Not all of his returns have been leaked. It’s still unknown who he owes his loans to and which are coming up for renewal
in the next couple of years. If they are to Russian mobsters via Deutschebank (mobsters who are controlled by Putin) it would be
a huge hit to a lot of people who are still on the fence or who might have some doubts.

[Aseahawkfan]

Democrats drop another bomb with his tax returns. More coming. I knew they had access to his tax returns. They were sitting on them waiting for the right time to drop them. I doubt this is the most damning part of them as this is only a minor hit on his election chances. Bigger bombs are coming.

[Aseahawkfan]

That won't work as the press has already leaked that he paid just $750 yet he's claiming that he paid "millions". Flunking a geography quiz or a citizenship test would be a lot harder to spin out of than a complicated tax return.

Income taxes is only one part of the taxes wealthy people pay. That's one idea I always hate tossed around this idea that zero federal income taxes means zero taxes. You and I both know that isn't true. No one would want businesses in their cities if they paid no taxes. They pay a lot of taxes, but maybe not income tax because they take advantage of tax loopholes which are usually set up to encourage job and capital expansion, which leads to more taxes.

[I-5]

It’s still unknown who he owes his loans to and which are coming up for renewal
in the next couple of years. If they are to Russian mobsters via Deutschebank (mobsters who are controlled by Putin) it would be
a huge hit to a lot of people who are still on the fence or who might have some doubts.

This factor alone, for the simple fact he directly influences US policy, and depending on who and where his creditors are, makes him a national security risk. I trust the adults in our government (obviously not in the White House) either know or are about to know the answer.

I have another question: why would a monetary institution continue to loan him money AFTER he's defaulted and sued them? That's what Deutsche Bank did They must know they're going to get paid somehow, but who's guaranteeing payment if Trump himself has bad credit? Deutsche Bank isn't stupid, that's for sure. Follow the money, and see where it goes.

[RiverDog]

That won't work as the press has already leaked that he paid just $750 yet he's claiming that he paid "millions". Flunking a geography quiz or a citizenship test would be a lot harder to spin out of than a complicated tax return.

Income taxes is only one part of the taxes wealthy people pay. That's one idea I always hate tossed around this idea that zero federal income taxes means zero taxes. You and I both know that isn't true. No one would want businesses in their cities if they paid no taxes. They pay a lot of taxes, but maybe not income tax because they take advantage of tax loopholes which are usually set up to encourage job and capital expansion, which leads to more taxes.

The discussion was related to Trump's recently disclosed personal federal income tax returns that showed he paid little if any income tax over the past 8 years. Of course, there are a litany of other taxes and fees that rich people, and for that matter other middle class individuals like me, pay: State taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, utility taxes, gas taxes, and so on, but that's not relevant to the conversation, which was specifically about the amount of federal income tax that Trump has paid. Personal income tax is an apples to apples comparison that every one of us can identify with as every American citizen is subject to them. For 2019, my wife and I paid $8381 in federal income tax and we're both retired and on fixed income. It's outrageous that Trump paid just $750.

What really smells to high heaven in the recently disclosed Trump tax returns are some of the deductions he's been taking advantage of to lessen his tax burden, like writing off $750k for "consulting fees" to his daughter and $70k in his personal hair styling expenses (Hawktalk's "orange haired witch!"). Whether it's legal or not, it's a tax dodge that a multi billionaire like him, particularly the POTUS, should be ashamed of and is morally indefensible.

Even conservative icon Ann Coulter, an avid Trump supporter, is calling Trump's tax returns part of an utterly corrupt system:

"I don't think the conservative take on @realDonaldTrump paying no taxes should be: BECAUSE HE'S SMART! I've paid nearly 50% of my income in taxes, year after year, and any system that allows billionaires to pay ZERO is unspeakable corrupt," she said.

She then said that Democrats "won't touch the shockingly corrupt tax system" that allows real estate billionaires and hedge fund billionaires to pay "zilch in taxes because most of the billionaires donate to them," also asking Republicans why they wouldn't criticize that.

https://www.newsweek.com/ann-coulter-sa ... em-1534824

It's one of the few times in the past couple of years that I've been able to agree with that old hag.

[Aseahawkfan]

The discussion was related to Trump's recently disclosed personal federal income tax returns that showed he paid little if any income tax over the past 8 years. Of course, there are a litany of other taxes and fees that rich people, and for that matter other middle class individuals like me, pay: State taxes, sales taxes, property taxes, utility taxes, gas taxes, and so on, but that's not relevant to the conversation, which was specifically about the amount of federal income tax that Trump has paid. Personal income tax is an apples to apples comparison that every one of us can identify with as every American citizen is subject to them. For 2019, my wife and I paid $8381 in federal income tax and we're both retired and on fixed income. It's outrageous that Trump paid just $750.

What really smells to high heaven in the recently disclosed Trump tax returns are some of the deductions he's been taking advantage of to lessen his tax burden, like writing off $750k for "consulting fees" to his daughter and $70k in his personal hair styling expenses (Hawktalk's "orange haired witch!"). Whether it's legal or not, it's a tax dodge that a multi billionaire like him, particularly the POTUS, should be ashamed of and is morally indefensible.

Even conservative icon Ann Coulter, an avid Trump supporter, is calling Trump's tax returns part of an utterly corrupt system:

"I don't think the conservative take on @realDonaldTrump paying no taxes should be: BECAUSE HE'S SMART! I've paid nearly 50% of my income in taxes, year after year, and any system that allows billionaires to pay ZERO is unspeakable corrupt," she said.

She then said that Democrats "won't touch the shockingly corrupt tax system" that allows real estate billionaires and hedge fund billionaires to pay "zilch in taxes because most of the billionaires donate to them," also asking Republicans why they wouldn't criticize that.

https://www.newsweek.com/ann-coulter-sa ... em-1534824

It's one of the few times in the past couple of years that I've been able to agree with that old hag.

Anne Coulter hasn't been on Trump's side for a while. She hates him now for softening on immigration. Coulter is a hardcore anti-immigration hack. She's pulled her support from Trump a year or two ago when she saw he wasn't going hard enough against immigrants. Pretty laughable compared to how you and most of the left wing media view him.

I can see the hair write-off as he makes his money in front of a camera.

Suffice it to say it does not surprise me he paid so little in taxes. There are lots of write offs for businesses. Every business owner big or small I know takes advantage of them. Not sure why this is a surprise, but I imagine it might sway some people who may have thought Trump paid a lot in taxes.

Trump may be amongst the worst for manipulating the tax codes, but I'd bet most of the Congress and nearly every major business person does the same, though they're businesses still produce huge sums of taxes.

I bet Trump regrets more and more stepping into the shark infested waters of politics thinking he could beat everyone in the government. In New York and in entertainment, he was a big fish with alot of money. In the overall scheme of Washington Politics, he's playing hardball against a bunch of other crooks and sheisters with law degrees and agendas. They know how to fight back too.

[I-5]

In New York and in entertainment, he was a big fish with alot of money.

Big fish? Yes. Lots of money? Doubtful. When Trump said today that he's very underleveraged, it's a sure sign that it's exactly the opposite, which is consistent with his released tax returns.

He always did call himself the King of Debt. I would love to know the terms that DB set for his most recent loans that are coming up, since they are the only lender left in the world willing to bankroll him (not including private loans from who knows).

[RiverDog]

Holy cow! I'm watching the debate, trying to listen with an objective mind, but it's nothing but a big chit show. No way I can watch this for 90 minutes.