The Dark Side of the BLM Movement

[I-5]

Doug Baldwin would be a good choice...but like bob says, it's not like they're nominated and elected. They have to want to. I haven't heard much from Doug, so I don't know what he's up to.

By the way, I didn't say Russell might run for office....I said I could see him running. Meaning if he did, it wouldn't surprise me - it's not a prediction. I don't think Russell is defined by wanting people to like him like you say, either. But that's my opinion only.

[RiverDog]

Doug Baldwin would be a good choice...but like bob says, it's not like they're nominated and elected. They have to want to. I haven't heard much from Doug, so I don't know what he's up to.

Agreed, which is why I said that someone needed to rise to the occasion. I was simply musing about who might be a good spokesman/spokeswoman, and Doug Baldwin came to mind due to the way he helped manage/articulate the Hawk's reaction to the kneeling issue a few years ago and I knew that his dad was a cop, which would give his opinions a sense of credibility that others might not have.

By the way, I didn't say Russell might run for office....I said I could see him running. Meaning if he did, it wouldn't surprise me - it's not a prediction. I don't think Russell is defined by wanting people to like him like you say, either. But that's my opinion only.

I understood what you meant. I was just pointing out the problems with us thinking that our sports hero's might make good politicians.

I have no idea if Russell is defined by wanting people to like him or not, but you have to admit that he's an extremely politically correct individual that goes to great lengths not to insult anyone. You'd have to be a real sadist not to like the public face of Russell Wilson. He would have to change his tactics quite dramatically if he were to run for elective office and would almost certainly draw the ire of a lot of people. Perhaps that wouldn't bother him, but there's no doubt that it would be a completely different environment for him compared to the relationship he currently enjoys with the overwhelming majority of the public.

[Aseahawkfan]

Russell should stay out of politics if he wants to keep his sanity.

[RiverDog]

Russell should stay out of politics if he wants to keep his sanity.

Politicians rank down there with snake oil salesmen and pimps for the most unsavory, corrupt occupations. Russell is too nice of a guy to get mixed up in a racket like politics.

[I-5]

For an extremely politically correct individual that goes to great lengths not to insult anyone as Riv pointed out, Russell Wilson is acutely aware that by using his platform to support Black Lives Matter, that he risks alienating many fans, and obviously it's worth it to him. He doesn't do anything by accident. Whether it's wise or not is not mine or anyone else's business but his own.

[RiverDog]

For an extremely politically correct individual that goes to great lengths not to insult anyone as Riv pointed out, Russell Wilson is acutely aware that by using his platform to support Black Lives Matter, that he risks alienating many fans, and obviously it's worth it to him. He doesn't do anything by accident. Whether it's wise or not is not mine or anyone else's business but his own.

Outside of offering support for the movement, of which there have been many athletes that have weighed in, has Russell spoke out that much about BLM? I know that he's made a few politically correct comments regarding not wanting his children to grow up in the fear of being targets of racial discrimination, but outside of that, I haven't actually heard him voice much of an opinion on the more difficult issues like police reform that would risk alienating fans.

[I-5]

Outside of offering support for the movement, of which there have been many athletes that have weighed in, has Russell spoke out that much about BLM? I know that he's made a few politically correct comments regarding not wanting his children to grow up in the fear of being targets of racial discrimination, but outside of that, I haven't actually heard him voice much of an opinion on the more difficult issues like police reform that would risk alienating fans.

Yeah, he's gone quite a bit past voicing support for the movement.

"This isn’t like this hasn’t been going on for years, that’s the scary part and the sad part. The difference now is we get to see it every day because of social media and phones and everything else. The world is truly seeing the ugliness of society at times, and what is really disappointing is just knowing that we as athletes try to make a difference, and sometimes people don’t want to listen and don’t want to recognize that that could have been us, that could be us. That’s a real reality. Us as a team, the Seahawks, we’re definitely discussing what do we do next, how do we make a change, how do we cause a movement and how do we make a difference? We’re in the midst of that right now.

We don’t have weeks, we don’t have months, we don’t have years to change it, we’ve got to all do it together, and we’ve got to do it now. We need change now. We need people to make a difference now, and we’re calling on people like yourselves to help us along the way too.”

-----------------

I don't see anything alienating about his statement. I didn't hear him painting the entire police force with one brush - I heard him saying this is a reality for black people. It just is, no matter what other people think. Of course, people will still be offended by it, but do you think Russell is worried about them at this point? I think Russell clearly sees himself on the right side of history, and that's despite any bad press on either side of the issue. That seems pretty clear to me. You may disagree of course.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, he's gone quite a bit past voicing support for the movement.

"This isn’t like this hasn’t been going on for years, that’s the scary part and the sad part. The difference now is we get to see it every day because of social media and phones and everything else. The world is truly seeing the ugliness of society at times, and what is really disappointing is just knowing that we as athletes try to make a difference, and sometimes people don’t want to listen and don’t want to recognize that that could have been us, that could be us. That’s a real reality. Us as a team, the Seahawks, we’re definitely discussing what do we do next, how do we make a change, how do we cause a movement and how do we make a difference? We’re in the midst of that right now.

We don’t have weeks, we don’t have months, we don’t have years to change it, we’ve got to all do it together, and we’ve got to do it now. We need change now. We need people to make a difference now, and we’re calling on people like yourselves to help us along the way too.”

-----------------

I don't see anything alienating about his statement. I didn't hear him painting the entire police force with one brush - I heard him saying this is a reality for black people. It just is, no matter what other people think. Of course, people will still be offended by it, but do you think Russell is worried about them at this point? I think Russell clearly sees himself on the right side of history, and that's despite any bad press on either side of the issue. That seems pretty clear to me. You may disagree of course.

Yeah, that sounds like classic Russell. Like you said, there is nothing in that statement that is going to offend anyone. But it's only a problem statement, with nothing more than a plea for people to listen and a vague appeal for change. It's when he (or anyone else) starts proposing concrete solutions where he would run the risk of alienating others.

[I-5]

The problem is there is a sizable segment of the country that does not see the problem, starting with the leader of the nation. If you saw the black man ask him about the MAGA slogan and when it was ever great for blacks, he completely sidesteps the question. It's the same reaction as to when the players kneeled during the anthem, the fans booing definitely don't see the problem, they interpret it as disrespect. You may be more englightened, of course, but that doesn't mean the rest of the country is. Yes, Russell is pointing out the problem first, because the country isn't on the same page about that. You have to start there if there is going to be a solution.

[RiverDog]

The problem is there is a sizable segment of the country that does not see the problem, starting with the leader of the nation. If you saw the black man ask him about the MAGA slogan and when it was ever great for blacks, he completely sidesteps the question. It's the same reaction as to when the players kneeled during the anthem, the fans booing definitely don't see the problem, they interpret it as disrespect. You may be more englightened, of course, but that doesn't mean the rest of the country is. Yes, Russell is pointing out the problem first, because the country isn't on the same page about that. You have to start there if there is going to be a solution.

Which is why I said that at the top of BLM's wish list needs to be the removal of Donald Trump from office. They need to be out there getting as many people registered and to the polls as possible. The drop off of black voter turnout in 2016 is arguably the reason why we got stuck with that POS in the first place so they have some culpability in the current leadership problems. Having their poster boy Colin Kaepernick out there telling everybody that he doesn't vote isn't the message they need to be sending.

BLM has spent the past 4 months, or longer if you want to go back to its genesis, pointing out the problem. When will it be time to start coming up with some solutions?

[I-5]

Which is why I said that at the top of BLM's wish list needs to be the removal of Donald Trump from office. They need to be out there getting as many people registered and to the polls as possible. The drop off of black voter turnout in 2016 is arguably the reason why we got stuck with that POS in the first place so they have some culpability in the current leadership problems. Having their poster boy Colin Kaepernick out there telling everybody that he doesn't vote isn't the message they need to be sending.

As bob pointed out, that is exactly what they're doing.

[Aseahawkfan]

Which is why I said that at the top of BLM's wish list needs to be the removal of Donald Trump from office. They need to be out there getting as many people registered and to the polls as possible. The drop off of black voter turnout in 2016 is arguably the reason why we got stuck with that POS in the first place so they have some culpability in the current leadership problems. Having their poster boy Colin Kaepernick out there telling everybody that he doesn't vote isn't the message they need to be sending.

BLM has spent the past 4 months, or longer if you want to go back to its genesis, pointing out the problem. When will it be time to start coming up with some solutions?

A lot of folk of African descent making money because of Trump. It may not be mainstream, but the fact is a lot of African ancestry folk are in the stock markets or learning about them. Fact is that Trump is way better for the stock market. It's not even open for debate. If you have money tied up in investments, Trump is far better for your money. A lot of people will vote their pocketbooks and overlook most other things. Fact is if Biden gets in office and raises taxes, stock markets will take a big hit as any raise in taxes is a reduction in earnings per share which hits P/E multiples and reduces stock valuations.

I'm sorry if I'm not on the Trump is the worst thing for the country ever bandwagon, but I'm not. If Trump won and he was in office 4 more years, I don't see my life changing much, especially once these COVID19 lockdowns are done. Same as if Biden wins I don't see my life changing much as even the market downturn will be a temporary buying opportunity as the markets always rise over time.

At this point I don't much care who wins other than a mild preference for a quiet Biden presidency though I don't like his fiscal policy as much as I don't like tax and spend economics. If Trump wins, I'll just ignore him like I mostly do now and build up my cash until the next likely Democratic president.

The main thing I'm not looking forward to if Trump wins is all the damn whining by the anti-Trump and left wing crowd. They like going after Trump and Trump likes going after them. Neither side will STFU. That's really what I miss. The constant yapping and propaganda is just ridiculous. I need some peace and quiet for a while. 2020 has been a terrible year.

[I-5]

Nov 3 isn't going to change the constant yapping, just where it's coming from. I think we can guarantee that.

[Aseahawkfan]

Nov 3 isn't going to change the constant yapping, just where it's coming from. I think we can guarantee that.

Yeah. But most presidents don't encourage the yapping like Trump. They don't care about being front and center or feeding their egos. Sure, Fox News will go after Biden and Kamala riling up the people who buy into Fox's drivel, but Biden will mostly ignore it and stay on his agenda. He and Kamala will mostly give carefully written speeches to as I call it "keep the peace." It may be fake, but it keeps the nation quiet. They'll follow their scientific advisors, create a pandemic relief plan, and bring the nation online in a more coordinated fashion than President Chaos.

[I-5]

Yeah. But most presidents don't encourage the yapping like Trump. They don't care about being front and center or feeding their egos. Sure, Fox News will go after Biden and Kamala riling up the people who buy into Fox's drivel, but Biden will mostly ignore it and stay on his agenda. He and Kamala will mostly give carefully written speeches to as I call it "keep the peace." It may be fake, but it keeps the nation quiet. They'll follow their scientific advisors, create a pandemic relief plan, and bring the nation online in a more coordinated fashion than President Chaos.

That sounds pretty good to me right about now.

[RiverDog]

Yeah. But most presidents don't encourage the yapping like Trump. They don't care about being front and center or feeding their egos. Sure, Fox News will go after Biden and Kamala riling up the people who buy into Fox's drivel, but Biden will mostly ignore it and stay on his agenda. He and Kamala will mostly give carefully written speeches to as I call it "keep the peace." It may be fake, but it keeps the nation quiet. They'll follow their scientific advisors, create a pandemic relief plan, and bring the nation online in a more coordinated fashion than President Chaos.

That sounds pretty good to me right about now.

I have no doubt that the nation will be in a lot better hands with a Biden presidency, at least initially. I'd trust any Democrat to manage the country during a pandemic than I would 90% of the Republicans I've seen, especially Trump. The big question will be the economic recovery a year from now. If the Dems gain control of both the White House and Congress, you can expect that their solution will be a TON of deficit spending. College debt forgiveness, reparations for slavery, you name it, they'll throw trillions around like it's candy. There'll be more money being tossed in the air than Pac Man Jones in a strip club. They'll "make it rain".

[Aseahawkfan]

I have no doubt that the nation will be in a lot better hands with a Biden presidency, at least initially. I'd trust any Democrat to manage the country during a pandemic than I would 90% of the Republicans I've seen, especially Trump. The big question will be the economic recovery a year from now. If the Dems gain control of both the White House and Congress, you can expect that their solution will be a TON of deficit spending. College debt forgiveness, reparations for slavery, you name it, they'll throw trillions around like it's candy. There'll be more money being tossed in the air than Pac Man Jones in a strip club. They'll "make it rain".

I trust any president but Trump. Bush Sr would have handled a pandemic both domestically and internationally very well. Wish we that guy in office right now.

[RiverDog]

I trust any president but Trump. Bush Sr would have handled a pandemic both domestically and internationally very well. Wish we that guy in office right now.

Reagan might have hesitated some as he was pretty stubborn and was a lot more sensitive to the economy than the Dems, but even he would have listened to the experts and eventually done what was right. They got him to change his opinion on AIDS, to approve sanctions against South Africa, etc. IMO any of the former R's would have done a better job at managing the pandemic than Trump has.

But I'd rather have a Dem in there under these circumstances. They don't give two hoots in hell about the economic consequences of a shutdown so they won't hesitate a second, and in a pandemic, time is of the essence.

[NorthHawk]

I think it's wrong to suggest any politician cares less about the economy than another.
The difference is their approach to how to improve the lives of people within the context
of a thriving economy or in building up the economy. Over the past approximately 50 years
we've seen a gradual shift to the right and the consequences are the small percentage at the
top getting the largest rewards from higher productivity while the majority bottom is getting
left behind (in relative terms).

[RiverDog]

I think it's wrong to suggest any politician cares less about the economy than another. The difference is their approach to how to improve the lives of people within the context of a thriving economy or in building up the economy. Over the past approximately 50 years
we've seen a gradual shift to the right and the consequences are the small percentage at the top getting the largest rewards from higher productivity while the majority bottom is getting left behind (in relative terms).

The Democrats are not nearly as concerned about the consequences of an economic shutdown as the Republicans are, at least as it applies to private business. They have strikingly different views of our capitalistic system than do the Republicans. Democrats put more faith in the federal government to provide economic vitality, the Republicans more trusting of private business. There's not a single government program or department that is at long term risk of elimination due to the shutdown whereas there are thousands of private businesses, including about 20% of all the restaurants in the country, that will close permanently due to the shutdown.

When a pandemic strikes, we need a leader that won't hesitate to shut down the country, at least initially. Democrats are more likely to have that attribute in their bloodstream than are Republicans.

[c_hawkbob]

The Democrats are not nearly as concerned about the consequences of an economic shutdown as the Republicans are, at least as it applies to private business. They have strikingly different views of our capitalistic system than do the Republicans. Democrats put more faith in the federal government to provide economic vitality, the Republicans more trusting of private business. There's not a single government program or department that is at long term risk of elimination due to the shutdown whereas there are thousands of private businesses, including about 20% of all the restaurants in the country, that will close permanently due to the shutdown.

When a pandemic strikes, we need a leader that won't hesitate to shut down the country, at least initially. Democrats are more likely to have that attribute in their bloodstream than are Republicans.

That's a partisan load of bull. Democrats care every bit as much as Republicans about the economy. The real economy, not just Wall Street. Stronger unions, higher minimum wage, greater protections for consumers. Affordable health care for everyone. All of those thing make up the real economy of the nation, not just corporate profits.

As for the pandemic, no one is advocation going back to a shutdown, with a national mask mandate, proper support for the medical community and a willingness to follow the science one shouldn't be necessary.

[RiverDog]

That's a partisan load of bull. Democrats care every bit as much as Republicans about the economy. The real economy, not just Wall Street. Stronger unions, higher minimum wage, greater protections for consumers. Affordable health care for everyone. All of those thing make up the real economy of the nation, not just corporate profits.

As for the pandemic, no one is advocation going back to a shutdown, with a national mask mandate, proper support for the medical community and a willingness to follow the science one shouldn't be necessary.

Let me correct that somewhat. The Dems do care as much about the economy as the Republicans do. It's their difference in their points of view of how that economy looks that separates them and makes their leadership either decisive or hesitant during a pandemic.

As you noted, Republicans tend to favor private businesses/Wall Street, etc, while Democrat's views tend to favor big government, ie socialized medicine and various other government sponsored programs and agencies from the Post Office to Amtrak. That's why the vast majority of government workers vote Democratic or donate to Dem campaigns. No one wants to see their jobs cut.

A shut down is going to hurt the private sector much more than the public one. It's the people that worked in the private sector that got laid off or had businesses close their doors, not those that work in government. Thus, there isn't the same political motivation for the Dems to go easy on private businesses as there is for the Republicans.

Agreed with your last paragraph, but that wasn't my point. My point was in the initial stages of the pandemic when quick, decisive action would have made a huge difference. Had the POTUS been on board and had all the governors made quick decisions like they did in most of the states with Dem governors, we almost certainly wouldn't be staring at 200k deaths. IMO a good 30 or 40 percent of those deaths can be attributed directly to Republican indecisiveness.

Now that the donkey has been hit in the head with a 2x4, I agree that another shutdown is unnecessary.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think it's wrong to suggest any politician cares less about the economy than another.
The difference is their approach to how to improve the lives of people within the context
of a thriving economy or in building up the economy. Over the past approximately 50 years
we've seen a gradual shift to the right and the consequences are the small percentage at the
top getting the largest rewards from higher productivity while the majority bottom is getting
left behind (in relative terms).

A conservative would argue we've moved to the left and the economic polices of the left have led to the lower increases due to attempts at price controls, minimum wages, regulation, and the like.

Then again there is more going on than either of these parties can manage given they both seem stuck in the 80s.

[RiverDog]

It's hard not to call a 14% budget cut, a reduction of 100 officers, eliminating their SWAT team and harbor patrol, failing to negotiate with the mayor, causing the police chief to resign in protest, any other name than defunding the police as that's the best description of this action taken by the Seattle City Council:

The historic reductions could eliminate up to 100 officers through layoffs and attrition, which the mayor called irresponsible, and Seattle Police Chief Carmen Best announced her retirement in protest.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/city-c ... FsZHKf5REM

Ironically these cuts are watered down. One council member wanted to cut the police budget by 50% and voted no against the approved resolution because she said it didn't go far enough.

[Aseahawkfan]

I just don't get how these folks are reacting to the Breonna Taylor case. I could have bet money none of them were going to be charged for murder or anything close. They keep calling it racism rather than what it was: egregious incompetence.

Unless they find some information that some secret KKK faction of the police ordered the police there as some hit team, I don't get it. From everything I read the police were called their for the investigation of an actual crime and the bf shot at them for breaking into the house, they shot back. How exactly do you try those cops for a crime for being sent to the wrong address on a no knock warrant given only for dangerous criminals, then when fired at, firing back? I don't get it.

And some of these idiot celebrities and liberal media are framing this like the cops just woke up, got a call from the KKK, and decided to show up at Taylor's apartment and shoot her. Really? That's where we're at? The liberal wants to run the nation using mob justice? That's their governing? No wonder Trump has a shot of winning. Our choices are a jackass that doesn't want to buy into the science of a virus because he wants to save the economy and a group of leftists who want to try people according to the whims of mobs protesters who think crimes should be decided by skin color if a white cop shoots a black person and couldn't care less about the shooting, harm, or actions of anyone else. This is America right now. Unbelievable.

I5 must be ecstatic he is in Canada.

[RiverDog]

I just don't get how these folks are reacting to the Breonna Taylor case. I could have bet money none of them were going to be charged for murder or anything close. They keep calling it racism rather than what it was: egregious incompetence.

Unless they find some information that some secret KKK faction of the police ordered the police there as some hit team, I don't get it. From everything I read the police were called their for the investigation of an actual crime and the bf shot at them for breaking into the house, they shot back. How exactly do you try those cops for a crime for being sent to the wrong address on a no knock warrant given only for dangerous criminals, then when fired at, firing back? I don't get it.

And some of these idiot celebrities and liberal media are framing this like the cops just woke up, got a call from the KKK, and decided to show up at Taylor's apartment and shoot her. Really? That's where we're at? The liberal wants to run the nation using mob justice? That's their governing? No wonder Trump has a shot of winning. Our choices are a jackass that doesn't want to buy into the science of a virus because he wants to save the economy and a group of leftists who want to try people according to the whims of mobs protesters who think crimes should be decided by skin color if a white cop shoots a black person and couldn't care less about the shooting, harm, or actions of anyone else. This is America right now. Unbelievable.

I5 must be ecstatic he is in Canada.

All it takes is a person of color being killed at the hands of a non black officer. The details don't matter. It's like listening to music just for the beat or rhythm. No one cares about the lyrics.

[I-5]

They keep calling it racism rather than what it was: egregious incompetence.

Should egregious incompetence that results in a needless death result in manslaughter charges at the least, since the result went beyond wanton endangerment and caused death?

[NorthHawk]

I read somewhere or heard somewhere that the no knock warrant had only 1 incident of a package for the suspect (ex boyfriend and no
longer living or visiting the premises) sometime back in or around February. I think it needs to be asked who the judge was that signed
it if that information is correct. No knock warrants are bad enough, but with only flimsy evidence, it makes it much more of a concern.

[Aseahawkfan]

Should egregious incompetence that results in a needless death result in manslaughter charges at the least, since the result went beyond wanton endangerment and caused death?

Not in this instance. Given the boyfriend had a gun and fired at the police wounding one, then this was a situation of extremely bad circumstances that led to a death. It should lead to a whole lot of people fired though. The mistakes from the intelligence that led to a no knock warrant to start with was bad and led to a bad outcome. Which means the entire process should be reviewed.

From what I have read they issue no knock warrants for violent offenders who they expect to fire back if the police knock and announce themselves. And someone did indeed fire back, just not for the reasons we issue a no knock warrant. The police wouldn't know that. Just like the boyfriend wouldn't know the police were breaking his door in with a no knock warrant. When that happens, you get this type of situation.

I do think that the press constantly making these issues racial is criminal. No real investigation into the causes on the merits of the case. Just white cops shot black person, they must be racist or it must be systemic racism. Never anyone in the left wing media going, "Maybe this happened for other reasons. Maybe we should look into those reasons and fix those reasons rather than just railing on about general racism and systemic racism for a problem that would be better fixed by looking at the specific causes in this case."

Don't you think that would be a smarter way to fix problems by actually looking at the problems in a given case and fixing those?

[RiverDog]

Should egregious incompetence that results in a needless death result in manslaughter charges at the least, since the result went beyond wanton endangerment and caused death?

Not in this instance. Given the boyfriend had a gun and fired at the police wounding one, then this was a situation of extremely bad circumstances that led to a death. It should lead to a whole lot of people fired though. The mistakes from the intelligence that led to a no knock warrant to start with was bad and led to a bad outcome. Which means the entire process should be reviewed.

From what I have read they issue no knock warrants for violent offenders who they expect to fire back if the police knock and announce themselves. And someone did indeed fire back, just not for the reasons we issue a no knock warrant. The police wouldn't know that. Just like the boyfriend wouldn't know the police were breaking his door in with a no knock warrant. When that happens, you get this type of situation.

I do think that the press constantly making these issues racial is criminal. No real investigation into the causes on the merits of the case. Just white cops shot black person, they must be racist or it must be systemic racism. Never anyone in the left wing media going, "Maybe this happened for other reasons. Maybe we should look into those reasons and fix those reasons rather than just railing on about general racism and systemic racism for a problem that would be better fixed by looking at the specific causes in this case."

Don't you think that would be a smarter way to fix problems by actually looking at the problems in a given case and fixing those?

Charles Barkley and Shaquille O'Neil said much the same thing, that people are tending to paint all these incidents with one brush stroke. There is no evidence that this incident was racially motivated.

Once the cops were fired on, then that changes the situation dramatically. They are now in fear of their own lives. Training cannot simulate the feeling one gets when you're life is being threatened. The adrenaline starts pumping. Judgements become clouded. Time compresses. That doesn't mean that a cop is completely exonerated from the consequences of a bad mistake, but it certainly makes it a lot more understandable.

[I-5]

Maybe someone can educate me on what happened, since I haven't followed it closely. Why did the boyfriend fire at the cops? Did he know who was at the door and why? If it was unannounced, does someone with a license to carry and sitting at home have a right to defend themselves?

Were there body cameras to show either way what happened exactly?

I don't see what it matters what Barkley or Shaq thinks, without the facts above.

Wanton endangerment does not include death, that's why I said manslaughter.

[Aseahawkfan]

Maybe someone can educate me on what happened, since I haven't followed it closely. Why did the boyfriend fire at the cops? Did he know who was at the door and why? If it was unannounced, does someone with a license to carry and sitting at home have a right to defend themselves?

Were there body cameras to show either way what happened exactly?

I don't see what it matters what Barkley or Shaq thinks, without the facts above.

Wanton endangerment does not include death, that's why I said manslaughter.

I can you a basic overview.

The police were entering the place with a no knock warrant which is given for an offender they believe might be violent. A no knock warrant allows them to enter a home without announcing themselves until the door is broken in I guess. The cops broke the door in. The boyfriend thought he was being robbed, so got his licensed firearm and fired at the cops. There is some dispute as to whether the police or the boyfriend fired first, but either way brandishing a weapon at the police serving a no knock warrants is sufficient reason to fire from what I understand. The boyfriend shot a cop and injured him to where he had to be removed by ambulance. The cops fired back starting a crossfire, which ended up killing Breonna Taylor. No one is even sure if they saw her before they shot her. Apparently the cops freaked out once fired upon and started shooting blind or at least one of them did, which is what the wanton endangerment charges are for.

There is some bodycam footage which is being released.

It looks like a monster of a f**k up. Some people should likely be fired. Apparently the criminal they were going after was already arrested, but a former bf of Breonna Taylor. The case was built on the idea that he was staying with her and she was keeping some of his drug money. Her home was a location the target was known to stay at.

But according to the left wing press and many celebrities, it was a racially motivated killing where the KKK or like organization called up the police and gave them a no knock warrant to randomly kill an unarmed black woman for racist purposes. At least that is how it is being characterized by the BLM movement and the left wing.

Which is why you should be glad you live in Canada right now. Being stuck between the Trump right wing crazy and the Democrats left wing crazy is making me look at how to get citizenship in another country. I've never done that in my life. But these two insane sides are tiresome liars, idiots, and making our nation a terrible place to live with their petty, stupid bickering both catering to the extremist elements in their groups.

[I-5]

Thanks for the details. Being in Canada is not much of a consolation. It's better, but Canadians are very aware and nervous about what's happening across the border, because everything is like a domino.

I keep going back to the question...if they were unannounced, the boyfriend has no idea that those are cops on the other side. So if they turn out to be cops, now he commited a crime? That doesn't add up. Put yourself in his shoes, someone comes through your door by force, you have no idea who, and you shoot to protect yourself and your girlfriend...now you're a criminal because it's a cop?

Take the race issue out of it, let's say everyone is white, and the F** up still ends up in a death. Wanton endangerment leading to death is manslaughter.

[Aseahawkfan]

Thanks for the details. Being in Canada is not much of a consolation. It's better, but Canadians are very aware and nervous about what's happening across the border, because everything is like a domino.

I keep going back to the question...if they were unannounced, the boyfriend has no idea that those are cops on the other side. So if they turn out to be cops, now he commited a crime? That doesn't add up. Put yourself in his shoes, someone comes through your door by force, you have no idea who, and you shoot to protect yourself and your girlfriend...now you're a criminal because it's a cop?

Take the race issue out of it, let's say everyone is white, and the F** up still ends up in a death. Wanton endangerment leading to death is manslaughter.

No. The boyfriend was let off too. He was deemed to have been using self-defense.

If someone fires back during a no knock warrant and you return fire as a police officer, it is not deemed manslaughter unless they prove the police officer was not acting within the confines of his rules of engagement.

You do not get to fire on the police and not expect them to fire back. That's why this is a big time screw up on and bad situation. It would be incredibly difficult to prove even manslaughter. They'll be lucky to stick these wanton endangerment charges.

[RiverDog]

I don't see what it matters what Barkley or Shaq thinks, without the facts above.

Barkley contemplated a gubernatorial run at one time and has been outspoken on a number of issues. Shaq attended a police academy and is a reserve police officer for a local police department, so he may have some insight into police tactics that the general public doesn't.

And most importantly, they are both well known and well respected black athletes that, at least on this issue, have expressed a difference of opinion to the prevailing one and have sought to correct it. IMO it's relevant to our discussion.

[NorthHawk]

No. The boyfriend was let off too. He was deemed to have been using self-defense.

If someone fires back during a no knock warrant and you return fire as a police officer, it is not deemed manslaughter unless they prove the police officer was not acting within the confines of his rules of engagement.

You do not get to fire on the police and not expect them to fire back. That's why this is a big time screw up on and bad situation. It would be incredibly difficult to prove even manslaughter. They'll be lucky to stick these wanton endangerment charges.

Which then brings up the question of how easy is it to get a no knock warrant? I think the requirements should be far more stringent than for a regular warrant because of the danger the innocent public
and the police.
From what I've heard and read, the information about the suspect was a few months old and they didn't check to see if he was in custody already.
It's a disastrous screwup with lethal consequences.

[c_hawkbob]

Same thing happened in Utah in the 80's while I was living there; no knock, wrong house, innocent people died. All the focus was on the cops instead of where it belonged: on the issuing judge, the requesting police superiors and the actual planners of the operation. That's where things actually went the most wrong. I have at least some measure of sympathy for the cops on the ground.

[RiverDog]

Excellent points on the no knock warrants. It would seem to me that they'd have to confirm that the suspect was in the room before they executed the warrant by some type of video surveillance or stake out that saw the suspect entering the room no more than a couple hours earlier. The military has to do that when they take out a high profile terrorist. The police should be utilizing a similar technique.

[Aseahawkfan]

Which then brings up the question of how easy is it to get a no knock warrant? I think the requirements should be far more stringent than for a regular warrant because of the danger the innocent public
and the police.
From what I've heard and read, the information about the suspect was a few months old and they didn't check to see if he was in custody already.
It's a disastrous screwup with lethal consequences.

Yep. Monster screw up that cost someone their life. Bad and late intelligence. Miscommunication. Boyfriend inside place armed with gun exercising his legal right of self-defense. Police exercise a lawful no knock warrant issued by a judge and requested by some higher ups. Police sent into an incredibly bad situation. Young woman and a nurse caught in the crossfire killed way too young.

The entire situation is a huge mistake that is going cost one life and is now costing careers, reputations, and causing a major fight in the nation.

They had better review no knock warrants, procedures, and everything associated and fix it. I believe the Taylor family has received a 12 million wrongful death settlement. Though you may not be able to prove something is criminal when police are doing their job, civil suits for wrongful death are a lot more lenient and every time the police make an egregious mistake like this it costs a lot of money. That will be likely drive change more than protesting and general disagreement. The more the government has to pay out money for negligence and wrongful death or excessive violence, the more they will tamp down on the police for financial reasons.

[I-5]

Just goes to show what I said earlier...the people who destroy property are more anarchists than anything. They support neither republicans or democrats. Case in point:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/seattle-protesters-oppose-biden-and-police-vandalize-buildings-cause-other-damage-reports

https://www.msn.com/en-us/foodanddrink/foodnews/original-starbucks-in-seattle-vandalised-during-biden-inauguration-protests/vi-BB1cWwzB