The Dark Side of the BLM Movement

[RiverDog]

Exactly. Violence is not excluded from his plan, if that’s what it takes to motivate his base. It doesn’t even occur to him that he has an opportunity to show what a leader i s. He simply has no idea. Can you imagine what’s going on in his toddler mind?

Which is the main reason I am against Donald Trump: Because he is not a leader. It's just like General Mattis said: He does not even pretend to make an attempt to unite our country, to the contrary, he openly seeks to divide us. All other previous Presidents that I've been conscious of or have read about in the history books, which includes all of those that served in the 20th and 21st centuries, have said something to the extent that they want to be president of all the people, not just those that voted for them. They may not have all meant what they said, but never have they expressed the blatant contempt for anyone that does not agree with them as has Donald Trump.

I can remember Ronald Reagan, widely despised by the left/Democrats, and House Majority Leader Tip O'Neill, one of Reagan's most intense critics and who called Reagan a lot of very uncomplimentary things, having a beer together on St. Patrick's Day (they were both of Irish decent) and toasting each other. And here we have Donald Trump refusing to so much as shake hands with Nancy Pelosi.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump's decision to go to Kenosha is like every other decisions he's made: It's selfish. He sees an opportunity in a battleground state to increase his chances of winning and he's going no matter who it might hurt. The only thing he cares about is motivating his base. It's why he called the man shot and killed in Portland, part of a group that went in armed and looking for a fight, a "great patriot" and vowed to fight "violent left wing civil unrest", intentionally overlooking the violence perpetuated by those on the far right. Trump is intentionally inciting a culture war as he thinks that's the ticket to his re-election. HIs trip to Kenosha is part of that culture war.

The two sides aren't going to stop any time soon. If you follow the rhetoric, these two sides are ready to go.

Only way out of this is end the lockdowns and make it so people can get back to work, school, and living. When you have lockdown like this still in effect after months with the news, even the sports news, constantly on the attack on the left and right, where do we have to go but at each other's throats?

It is no lie that if you are out of your house protesting, nothing is done to you. If you're out of your house wanting to work, go to the gym, or anything else, people are all over you.

The government has created this situation where the only thing you can legally do outside is protest and go at each other. So those are the main people getting out of the house. These government bums have brought this on themselves.

Just like they picked winners and losers in business, jobs, and life in general.

[I-5]

There's a reason for the lockdown, and unfortunately the behaviour of too many americans who don't even think there is a real pandemic means Covid-19 will remain a huge problem in the US far longer than in any other country by far, with Brazil a distant but gaining second. Who woulda thunk that the italians who are often thought of as not the most organized group of people (don't know where I heard that, but I hear jokes about it often) and don't have the best reputation for their medical system (even though it's rated higher than the US and one of the tops in Europe), turned out to be excellent at working together to curb the spread of the coronavirus, and are now almost back to normal.

[RiverDog]

The two sides aren't going to stop any time soon. If you follow the rhetoric, these two sides are ready to go.

Only way out of this is end the lockdowns and make it so people can get back to work, school, and living. When you have lockdown like this still in effect after months with the news, even the sports news, constantly on the attack on the left and right, where do we have to go but at each other's throats?

It is no lie that if you are out of your house protesting, nothing is done to you. If you're out of your house wanting to work, go to the gym, or anything else, people are all over you.

The government has created this situation where the only thing you can legally do outside is protest and go at each other. So those are the main people getting out of the house. These government bums have brought this on themselves.

Just like they picked winners and losers in business, jobs, and life in general.

I can't say that I disagree with very much of that take. I agree, the pandemic and associated lockdowns is largely to blame for our current social problems. We've screwed up the coronavirus response so bad...and not just Donald Trump and various government agencies, we as citizens have to take our share of the blame as well...that we've put ourselves on this treadmill that only a viable vaccine can stop.

It's going to be a long 6 months or so before we get an effective vaccine that is widely available.

[RiverDog]

There's a reason for the lockdown, and unfortunately the behaviour of too many americans who don't even think there is a real pandemic means Covid-19 will remain a huge problem in the US far longer than in any other country by far, with Brazil a distant but gaining second. Who woulda thunk that the italians who are often thought of as not the most organized group of people (don't know where I heard that, but I hear jokes about it often) and don't have the best reputation for their medical system (even though it's rated higher than the US and one of the tops in Europe), turned out to be excellent at working together to curb the spread of the coronavirus, and are now almost back to normal.

The behavior of Americans during this pandemic shouldn't be a huge shocker. We are a nation that values our personal freedoms and liberties more so than any other nation in the world, perhaps even in the entire history of the world. We're also a country of stooges, where nearly 30% of our adults can't find the Pacific Ocean on a map and are extremely susceptible to hearing what they want to hear rather than having the ability/motivation to separate the wheat from the chaff. Combine those two facts with the demands that an effective response requires 90%+ compliance and it's pretty easy to see why we've failed where other countries have succeeded.

For good or for bad, we are a country that has no equal, nothing to compare us to.

[I-5]

No one is shocked, except for people on the outside who think of americans as world leaders in most things (which we normally would be). I only wish we had Obama, or really any other president than this joker, during this pandemic. I'm certainly not surprised.

For good or for bad, we are a country that has no equal, nothing to compare us to

Right now, it's mostly bad. People actually feel sorry for americans stuck with Trump now, and as I said, people in Canada call the police when they see a car with US plates that might be circumventing the pass-thru rules (since americans aren't the biggest rule followers).

[Aseahawkfan]

There's a reason for the lockdown, and unfortunately the behaviour of too many americans who don't even think there is a real pandemic means Covid-19 will remain a huge problem in the US far longer than in any other country by far, with Brazil a distant but gaining second. Who woulda thunk that the italians who are often thought of as not the most organized group of people (don't know where I heard that, but I hear jokes about it often) and don't have the best reputation for their medical system (even though it's rated higher than the US and one of the tops in Europe), turned out to be excellent at working together to curb the spread of the coronavirus, and are now almost back to normal.

There is a reason. Unless you're protesting or somehow associated with them. Which means the rules once again only apply to those who listen to the government as in law-abiding citizens. If you're a person willing to break the rules, engage in violence, or flout the police, then you're protected by the government depending on the political leaning of your area.

[RiverDog]

No one is shocked, except for people on the outside who think of americans as world leaders in most things (which we normally would be). I only wish we had Obama, or really any other president than this joker, during this pandemic. I'm certainly not surprised.

No disagreement there.

[I-5]

https://youtu.be/WHjW18w5wbQ

Now they're getting booed while displaying unity AFTER the national anthem. When is it ok to peacefully protest? Seems like the answer is 'never, just entertain us'. Convince me.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Some people want the politics out of their entertainment. Not an unreasonable expectation when one can’t get away from it hardly at all right now. I am not a big fan of it happening on game days, but, now that the NFL has allowed it, it is part of the product (like it or not, the platform the players are using belongs to the NFL.) Either consume the product or don’t. I mean that in general, not for anyone in particular.

[I-5]

Yes, the NFL has allowed it, so it is part of the product as you say. But since when did anyone care about the couple of minutes between the anthem and kickoff? How is it hurting the viewer if they're still getting the exact same product...all they have to do is ignore it if they don't like it, and the anthem is left alone.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

That’s in the eye of the beholder. Makes perfect sense for some, nonsense for others.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://youtu.be/WHjW18w5wbQ

Now they're getting booed while displaying unity AFTER the national anthem. When is it ok to peacefully protest? Seems like the answer is 'never, just entertain us'. Convince me.

Sorry, you are engaging in one-sided thinking. If it is ok for the protesters to protest, it is ok for people to not want to watch the protest and not want to see it or not agree with it.

If you can't accept criticism and disagreement when protesting, then you shouldn't protest. If you aren't willing to risk your profession and life for a cause, then don't stand up for it.

You keep asking this question and can't seem to accept the answer. Not everyone is going to agree with your protest. If they don't, then they will make it known same as the protesters are making it known they disagree with something. That is how it has always been and always will be.

Did you think they would protest and everyone would agree with them and go along with it? I'm sorry. That's not how it works. Not everyone is against the police because that is what BLM has reached at this point: for and against the police.

Once it reaches that level, you are going to have a very divided nation.

[I-5]

FYI I wasn't expecting an answer...it's a rhetorical question. The point is, there are people who don't want to see any protest of any kind because their lives aren't affected by the issue.

The players aren't going to stop displays of unity, and I'm glad to see their non-black teammates and coaches suppor them. More power to them for using their platform.

[RiverDog]

https://youtu.be/WHjW18w5wbQ

Now they're getting booed while displaying unity AFTER the national anthem. When is it ok to peacefully protest? Seems like the answer is 'never, just entertain us'. Convince me.

Sorry, you are engaging in one-sided thinking. If it is ok for the protesters to protest, it is ok for people to not want to watch the protest and not want to see it or not agree with it.

I'm with both ASF and Mack on this one. Fans booing a demonstration is no less an expression of free speech than the demonstration itself. It is the exact same form of non violent protest that liberals have so enthusiastically embraced when the demonstration aligns with their beliefs, so how can you in good conscious object to fans voicing their opinion?

I also think that there is a very logical argument about keeping politics and sports separate, and once again, I can throw out a couple of examples: Do you remember Rush Limbaugh's short tenure as an ESPN NFL analyst and how so many people, particular liberals who didn't like his brand of politics, argued against mixing the two? Or how about Trump weighing in on the anthem protests, ie kneeling, how many people didn't like the ultimate politician getting involved by pressuring owners to discipline those that knelt by arguing that politicians should stay out of sports?

[RiverDog]

FYI I wasn't expecting an answer...it's a rhetorical question. The point is, there are people who don't want to see any protest of any kind because their lives aren't affected by the issue.

The players aren't going to stop displays of unity, and I'm glad to see their non-black teammates and coaches suppor them. More power to them for using their platform.

The problem is that it isn't the player's platform. They are employees of the teams of the NFL. It is the owner's platform, not the players.

I personally have softened my attitude to the protests now that they've framed it that they're aren't disrespecting the flag or the country, so I'm OK with it. But at some point, they are going to have to move from protests to action. Simply protesting doesn't change anything and in this case, it's beginning to be counter productive as support for the BLM movement peaked many weeks ago.

[Aseahawkfan]

FYI I wasn't expecting an answer...it's a rhetorical question. The point is, there are people who don't want to see any protest of any kind because their lives aren't affected by the issue.

The players aren't going to stop displays of unity, and I'm glad to see their non-black teammates and coaches suppor them. More power to them for using their platform.

Yep. The spectrum is wide and varied. So why worry about it? Pick what you want to believe in and support in the way you want to do it, then go with it and accept the consequences and hopefully work towards some improvements.

[I-5]

Nowhere did I indicate that I was worried about anything, but thanks for your concern. I was making the observation that people complained about them disrespecting the flag by kneeling during the anthem (which was suggested as a better alternative to sitting by Green Beret Nate Boyer), and now they're showing their display of unity for BLM in the space of time between the anthem and the game are STILL getting booed. I do find that funny, which begs the RHETORICAL question, when is the proper time to protest? It's just discourse, there is no right answer.

I do like Riv's suggestion of transitioning from protest to action....got any suggestions for the kinds of actions you're thinking of?

[RiverDog]

I do like Riv's suggestion of transitioning from protest to action....got any suggestions for the kinds of actions you're thinking of?

Voting Donald Trump out of office is at the top of my list. Rather than protests and demonstrations, I'd rather see them focus all that energy into voter registration drives and a get out the vote effort, particularly in the battleground states. With the election less than 2 months away, the timing is perfect. A lot of people like me still remember Colin Kaepernick saying that he does not vote in elections.

Some of the suggestions we talked about earlier might be worth a try. ASF suggested drones or 'Robocop', which might be out there in the future. If there's advances in technology that would permit officers to stand off in a potentially life threatening situation, then I'd be all for giving it a shot. Something as simple as opening up police stations for tours might be helpful in bringing officers closer to the communities they serve. CBob suggested that officers go through the same type of training that military personnel do. I've suggested that we augment their pay/benefits or provide some sort of educational assistance to prospective officers, increase the field of candidates, giving procurement more ways to separate the 'wheat from the chaff' and do a better job of hiring/retainment. There's been talk of a national 'super committee' that would independently investigate every situation where the use of deadly force results in the killing or wounding of a suspect. Some have suggested getting rid of laws or reducing penalties for things like drugs or have someone else be the referee in domestic disputes. Those are all viable responses that are worth consideration.

Whether or not any of those would work is debatable, but it sure as hell isn't going to get solved by players joining arms during the anthem or protesters interrupting everyone's lives every day and night for 100 straight days. The nation is growing weary. Many are interpreting the protests and demonstrations as acts of self pity, especially when it's being done by multi million dollar athletes that the public feels are grossly overpaid. They are widening the gulf and inflaming opinions in what has turned into a full blown culture war.

I'm not suggesting that we accept bad police work or that we don't at least try to make things better. But until people realize the scope of the problem in policing a free, highly diversified society with 330 million people the 'problem' will never get fixed.

[Aseahawkfan]

Nowhere did I indicate that I was worried about anything, but thanks for your concern. I was making the observation that people complained about them disrespecting the flag by kneeling during the anthem (which was suggested as a better alternative to sitting by Green Beret Nate Boyer), and now they're showing their display of unity for BLM in the space of time between the anthem and the game are STILL getting booed. I do find that funny, which begs the RHETORICAL question, when is the proper time to protest? It's just discourse, there is no right answer.

I do like Riv's suggestion of transitioning from protest to action....got any suggestions for the kinds of actions you're thinking of?

Yeah. I posted that a while back and I'll add more:

1 Better technology for the police for non-lethal capture. Jacob Blake in Wisconsin was tasered twice and it did nothing. What can a cop do once he's applied non-lethal force twice, ordered him to stand down at gun point with 2 other cops, tried to grab his shirt, and tried to physically apprehend him and he physically outmatched the cops? So they need better technology for non-lethal capture.

2. BLM has to show they aren't an organization that is solely there to attack cops and make it so a person of African descent can ignore them and do what they want. That is wrong. Look at Wisconsin which you haven't addressed yet. You tell me what is a police officer supposed to do when he has tried all nonlethal methods? Do you think it is right for BLM to attack that Wisconsin cop when he took all those measures to apprehend the man and he walked to his car ignoring them? Where is the line drawn for police officer's to use lethal force? I would say that Jacob Blake is at fault for this one unless I hear something different in the report. BLM protesting and burning down Kenosha for basically expecting the police officer to just wait for Blake to get what he planned to get from his car and do what he planned to do is wrong of the BLM protesters. Someone should be telling the BLM protesters they are wrong and if they can't maintain a reasoned approach to these occurrences, then how do we have a starting point for reform?

3. Rewrite the laws. Drug laws are stupid right now. Legalize marijuana nation wide. Use tort law to attack drug dealers. Drug crime punishment should be forced rehabilitation paid for by confiscating drug dealer money and possessions using Tort Law measuring damages of a rehab program for using their product. Drug dealers are essentially businesses who are selling a bad product to customers. Set up the law so that Tort Law allows the courts to pursue heavy damages to anyone accused of selling an addictive product that causes someone to be assigned to a forced rehabilitation program.

Get rid of stupid laws like selling loose cigarettes in front of stores in New York requiring a gang arrest.

4. Send flier with information out saying exactly what the police are authorized to do if you resist arrest and ensure people know to follow the police commands. A very common theme in these police killings is the person not complying with police arresting them. I would say the more common theme than race in these police killings is the individual not complying with and being very careful with the police. These dudes are not there to talk with you, hold your hand, or be kind to you. They are there to arrest you for something you may or may not be doing someone has called them about. If you are make their job hard, then you put yourself in danger.

Literally everyone I know regardless of race has been taught to comply with the police, so they can do their job. If you resist them or cause them trouble, then you might end up seriously hurt or dead. They are not there to martyr themselves dealing with your resistance.

5. On call counselors for the mentally ill. The police are not trained mental health counselors or at least most of them. They have deescalation techniques, but they aren't always going to work with a crazy person. Crazy people are unpredictable. You can't expect a cop to show patience and wait for a crazy person to hurt or kill them just to make sure they don't kill the wrong person. So maybe have some on call police counselors who are cops and counselors who can respond to mental health emergencies. Maybe this would help. Who knows. Sometimes crazy is crazy. My mother worked in a hospital with some insane combat veterans that only huge ass orderlies could keep in line because they could kill or rip apart normal people. I'm not sure what you can do when a huge, combat trained male has lost his mind and is a possible danger.\

6. One big thing would be call on the police for more personal accountability. Get rid of the problems in their midst or the racists. If a cop knows someone is a racist or a violent cop, call him out and get him out off the force. Cops have to hold each other up to high standards. Their job is hard. They deal with the worst of the human problems in the world. They don't need terrible people on the police force to make a problem worse before it starts.

Suffice it to say, I see this as more of a two way problem than one way. It's not just the cops. The real common denominator in these police killings is not race. Cops are not waking up in the morning, going to work, and taking bets on who bags the first black man for the week. The common denominator is either resisting arrest or incompetence. Resisting arrest puts the police in a tough situation to start out with because the lethal force decision making and the rough, physical altercation starts. The incompetence is when a police officer ratchets up a situation he didn't need to like that woodcarver in Seattle or the guy who drew his pistol instead of his taser in Fruitvale Station.

First order of business is making it clearly known that resisting arrest is not tolerated. It needs to stop. That will save the most amount of lives right there even though no one on the left wants to admit this because it doesn't fit their race based narrative. I'd bet you my entire life savings that not resisting arrest would cut the number of not just black men killed by police, but everyone killed by police by 75% or more. The number one event I've seen in nearly every one of these police and citizen incidents is the people resisting arrest putting the police in violent mode.

[RiverDog]

First order of business is making it clearly known that resisting arrest is not tolerated. It needs to stop. That will save the most amount of lives right there even though no one on the left wants to admit this because it doesn't fit their race based narrative. I'd bet you my entire life savings that not resisting arrest would cut the number of not just black men killed by police, but everyone killed by police by 75% or more. The number one event I've seen in nearly every one of these police and citizen incidents is the people resisting arrest putting the police in violent mode.

People need to be educated as to at how daunting and dangerous police work is and the risks they take every day when they strap on their gun belt. It's a very stressful, hazardous job that not everyone can do well.

In a little over 9 months so far in 2020, there have been 193 police officers killed in the line of duty. 34 have been due to gunfire, 9 were killed in vehicular assaults, 2 in vehicle pursuits, 7 struck by a vehicle, and 16 by vehicle crashes.

https://www.odmp.org/search/year

There needs to be more understanding of the problems on both sides of the issue. All the BLM has done is highlight one side of the equation.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

More of that dark side coming out:

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020 ... k-hospita/

Not engendering a lot of support operating this way. Bad enough two LEOs were ambushed, but then to block the ER entrance, chant for the two LEOs to die, and tell the LEOs on guard that they are next is beyond reprehensible.

[I-5]

Those are all great suggestions...as for which ones the players can take action on, that's a different story. Do we think the authorities are willing to take these great steps?

In the meantime, the players are doing everything they can to get fans to VOTE, while they show their unity display. Just watch Russell, a natural born leader both and and off the field, how he handles himself and the issues when it comes to BLM. I think he's pretty measured in everything, and I don't remember him saying much last year, but he's definitely using his voice now. I've always told my family and friends that I can see Russell entering politics post-football. It wouldn't be the first time a player has, a la Jack Kemp. I think he could get far, as he strikes me as neither far left nor far right, but just a decent guy who wants the best for the majority of the country.

[RiverDog]

Those are all great suggestions...as for which ones the players can take action on, that's a different story. Do we think the authorities are willing to take these great steps?

IMO the police commissioners/chiefs and officers in general would likely to be more than happy to sit down at the table to discuss proposals of the type we've talked about so long as they're presented in good faith and are allowed to present their side of the story. They have to be at an emotional low after the PR beating they've taken this summer.

In the meantime, the players are doing everything they can to get fans to VOTE, while they show their unity display. Just watch Russell, a natural born leader both and and off the field, how he handles himself and the issues when it comes to BLM. I think he's pretty measured in everything, and I don't remember him saying much last year, but he's definitely using his voice now. I've always told my family and friends that I can see Russell entering politics post-football. It wouldn't be the first time a player has, a la Jack Kemp. I think he could get far, as he strikes me as neither far left nor far right, but just a decent guy who wants the best for the majority of the country.

I have no idea how good of a politician Russell would be, but I'd bet money that he wouldn't like it very well. Russell is used to the public liking him, and if he goes into politics and is forced to take stands on hot button issues like abortion and gun control, he's going to be in for a rude awakening, especially as toxic as the political and cultural atmosphere is nowadays. Steve Largent entered politics and was relatively successful, serving 3 terms in the House of Representatives as a Republican Christian conservative before running for Governor of Oklahoma and losing in a very nasty campaign that resulted in Largent walking away from future political activities. Just judging by his personality, I don't think Russell would like politics.

As far as NFL players "doing everything they can to get fans to VOTE", I haven't seen anything of the sort. That doesn't mean that I don't believe you as I might simply be uninformed, and it wouldn't be the first time I was unaware of something. If you could show us some examples, I'd be delighted to read them.

[RiverDog]

More of that dark side coming out:

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020 ... k-hospita/

Not engendering a lot of support operating this way. Bad enough two LEOs were ambushed, but then to block the ER entrance, chant for the two LEOs to die, and tell the LEOs on guard that they are next is beyond reprehensible.

That is just sickening! Why hasn't the media jumped on that story? The only thing Newsweek said is that there were a group of protesters assembled outside of the emergency entrance to the hospital. Time didn't make any mention of the protests.

[c_hawkbob]

What do you mean why haven't they? It was all over both the local and national news (NBC) this morning. And every other PSA you see during the games was some player or other telling you to get out and vote, or about arenas or unused venues being turned into voting centers ... it's not just talk.

And as far as Russ goes, I bet he'd be more than willing to sit down at a round table with Police and other players and whatever other pertinent parties are involved and have some open discussion about it. I think your assumptions may be a bit slanted.

[c_hawkbob]

More of that dark side coming out:

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020 ... k-hospita/

Not engendering a lot of support operating this way. Bad enough two LEOs were ambushed, but then to block the ER entrance, chant for the two LEOs to die, and tell the LEOs on guard that they are next is beyond reprehensible.

That is just sickening! Why hasn't the media jumped on that story? The only thing Newsweek said is that there were a group of protesters assembled outside of the emergency entrance to the hospital. Time didn't make any mention of the protests.

First, I just watched the video of this incident outside the hospital and that was not a BLM protest trying to block anyone's entry to the hospital, it 3, maybe 4 guys at most making fools out of themselves (likely because the was a reporter video taping) with many more cops standing guard facing them. One of the guys said "I hope they die" and he was followed and arrested when the men left. So trying to say that the BLM movement isn't doing themselves any favors with this sort of behavior is just inaccurate.

Second, the dude that said that is scum, I'd a probably gotten myself in trouble going after him for having said it.

Third, the cops also threw to the ground and arrested the reporter that filmed the scene at the hospital entrance and them arresting the cretin with the big mouth even though she clearly identified herself as a reporter (they said she didn't in their report, but the in footage it's clear) and was wearing a lanyard with her credentials. A bit of an over reaction and unfortunate for her but in this instance I kind of have to sympathize with the police officers that were obviously under a lot of emotional stress in the moment. I'd have a hard time thinking perfectly clearly if someone had said that to me as I were there hoping a fellow officer was going to live after being ambushed like that. Those aren't the cops you need to make an example of.

[RiverDog]

First, I just watched the video of this incident outside the hospital and that was not a BLM protest trying to block anyone's entry to the hospital, it 3, maybe 4 guys at most making fools out of themselves (likely because the was a reporter video taping) with many more cops standing guard facing them. One of the guys said "I hope they die" and he was followed and arrested when the men left. So trying to say that the BLM movement isn't doing themselves any favors with this sort of behavior is just inaccurate.

First of all, no one said that it was a BLM protest. Mack made reference to 'that dark side', but that was as close as either of us associated it with BLM.

Secondly, BLM is not an organization with members and sanctioned marches, it's a movement, like the anti Vietnam or civil rights protests. Whether it's fair or not, BLM is going to get tagged for any and all anti police protests in the near future...good, bad, and indifferent.

And lastly, I see this incident as being no different than the fatal shooting in Portland of a member of a counter protest group by a supporter of the Antifa that participated in BLM protests. It's an unintended consequence of the movement, ie the "dark side" of the movement.

[RiverDog]

What do you mean why haven't they? It was all over both the local and national news (NBC) this morning. And every other PSA you see during the games was some player or other telling you to get out and vote, or about arenas or unused venues being turned into voting centers ... it's not just talk.

I don't usually watch TV news unless I'm at the gym, which I haven't been able to frequent since the pandemic struck. I'm getting my news off my personalized feed off the internet and I didn't see it being mentioned even after having done a search on my news app. A couple sources, ie NBC, Newsweek and Time, had mentioned the protests but nothing about the above content so I assumed that the story was getting buried by those mostly liberal publications. But I'll accept your word and stand corrected.

And being that I don't watch a lot of TV and tune out the commercials in football games, I haven't seen the PSA's. But if that's what they're doing, it's a positive that I fully support and encourage, although my personal take is that people educate themselves by reading the voter's pamphlet or doing some of their own research before voting and not just voting for the sake of voting.

And as far as Russ goes, I bet he'd be more than willing to sit down at a round table with Police and other players and whatever other pertinent parties are involved and have some open discussion about it. I think your assumptions may be a bit slanted.

I didn't say that he wouldn't. I was answering an observation by I-5 that he could see Russell "entering politics post-football...a la Jack Kemp.", which I took to mean that he might run for elective office, not sit down at a round table.

I'm not sure what you are implying by suggesting that my assumptions are slanted. I haven't the slightest idea in which direction Russell's political compass points, nor do I care.

[c_hawkbob]

First, I just watched the video of this incident outside the hospital and that was not a BLM protest trying to block anyone's entry to the hospital, it 3, maybe 4 guys at most making fools out of themselves (likely because the was a reporter video taping) with many more cops standing guard facing them. One of the guys said "I hope they die" and he was followed and arrested when the men left. So trying to say that the BLM movement isn't doing themselves any favors with this sort of behavior is just inaccurate.

First of all, no one said that it was a BLM protest. Mack made reference to 'that dark side', but that was as close as either of us associated it with BLM.

Mack said they are engendering a lot of support operating this way ... who is they if not BLM?

The rest of your post I agree with.

[RiverDog]

Mack said they are engendering a lot of support operating this way ... who is they if not BLM?

The rest of your post I agree with.

OK, I see your point. However, if you agree with the rest of my post, then you must agree with me that BLM was tagged with this incident as an unintended consequence of their continued protests. People don't tend to discriminate between legitimate, peaceful demonstrations and ugly incidents like this one. After a period of time, all protests start to meld into one giant one. It doesn't do their look any good.

[c_hawkbob]

Agreeing on the reason why a thing is inaccurate doesn't mean I should not say that it is in fact inaccurate.

[RiverDog]

Agreeing on the reason why a thing is inaccurate doesn't mean I should not say that it is in fact inaccurate.

Part of my post that you said that you agreed with stated that the incident Mack referred to was an unintended consequence of the BLM movement. Do you agree or disagree with that statement?

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

I assumed it was considering where it happened. Some outlets are running with it regardless, but I agree it shouldn’t be attributed to them, even a fringe element, without evidence. Unfortunately, very easy to associate it with them.

[c_hawkbob]

Read that again Riv.

[I-5]

I agree it shouldn’t be attributed to them, even a fringe element, without evidence. Unfortunately, very easy to associate it with them

I agree with this statement, which is why association ironically is a problem both for BLM and the Police. The actions of a few stain the reputation of many. It's not fair, but that's what happens.

[RiverDog]

I agree it shouldn’t be attributed to them, even a fringe element, without evidence. Unfortunately, very easy to associate it with them

I agree with this statement, which is why association ironically is a problem both for BLM and the Police. The actions of a few stain the reputation of many. It's not fair, but that's what happens.

Which is why BLM needs to go beyond the protests and demonstrations. It is counter productive for them to continue on the same path. They need a credible defacto leader to come forward to represent them, such as MLK was with the civil rights movement (Kaepernick will not suffice), and start engaging the powers to be.

[I-5]

I agree BLM would benefit greatly from a national leader like MLK. Conversely, the police could also use an effective national spokesman, as the current top law enforcement official (POTUS) only knows the language of force. I don’t think Al Sharpton makes the grade, and we don’t hear from Rev Jesse Jackson much anymore. If Ali was alive not to mention not afflicted severely with Parkinson’s, he would be a natural leader, as he spoke about the themes of BLM and was very outspoken at every opportunity. I think people did listen to him, not that it did much good at the time.

[c_hawkbob]

Which is why BLM needs to go beyond the protests and demonstrations. It is counter productive for them to continue on the same path. They need a credible defacto leader to come forward to represent them, such as MLK was with the civil rights movement (Kaepernick will not suffice), and start engaging the powers to be.

I disagree. Most grass roots movements don't have a single identifiable figurehead and it's not as though they can "vote one in" anyway. They need to keep doing what they're doing and keep the message the issue. 94% of BLM protests are peaceful demonstrations without issue. If we didn't have a racist in chief trying to keep us divided and sending his own right wing unidentified troops and armed citizen caravans into the mix the number would be lower than that.

And BTW, just so we don't completely rewrite the history of the civil rights movement as totally benign, Malcom X was as much a leader of the movement as MLK. Even though they had completely different methods, they both fought for the same thing.

[RiverDog]

I agree BLM would benefit greatly from a national leader like MLK. Conversely, the police could also use an effective national spokesman, as the current top law enforcement official (POTUS) only knows the language of force. I don’t think Al Sharpton makes the grade, and we don’t hear from Rev Jesse Jackson much anymore. If Ali was alive not to mention not afflicted severely with Parkinson’s, he would be a natural leader, as he spoke about the themes of BLM and was very outspoken at every opportunity. I think people did listen to him, not that it did much good at the time.

I don't agree with any of those choices. Sharpton is a confirmed anti Semitic and has used some Trump-like language in reference to Jews, Jesse Jackson was a race baiting ambulance chaser that older whites hate, and Ali was just plain too stupid, even said of himself that he was "the greatest, not the smartest". They need someone articulate that can understand complex issues with regard to police procurement and training, funding, budgeting, and taxation that doesn't have any baggage and that can gain the respect of whites as well as blacks. Of our Seahawks/former Seahawks, IMO Doug Baldwin, whose dad was a 35 year veteran police officer, would be a great choice.