Trump Tests Positive for COVID

[RiverDog]

I don't want to wish ill health on President Trump and certainly not the First Lady and pray for their full recovery, but if this isn't poetic justice, I don't know what is.

President Trump said early Friday that he and the first lady had tested positive for the coronavirus.
“We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately,” Trump said in a tweet at 12:54 a.m. Eastern time. “We will get through this TOGETHER!”

Trump’s positive test came just hours after the White House announced that senior aide Hope Hicks, one of the president’s closest advisors, had tested positive Thursday after several days of traveling with the president.

White House physician Sean P. Conley, in a letter made public early Friday, said the president and First Lady Melania Trump “are both well at this time and plan to remain at home within the White House during their convalescence.” He added that he expects Trump to continue his duties as president “without disruption.”

More immediately, the health scare for Trump, who at 74 is at higher risk of serious complications from the virus that has already killed more than 200,000 Americans, amounts to the most serious known health crisis faced by any sitting president in recent American history.

Just hours before he announced his positive test result, in a pre-recorded message to the New York Archdiocese’s Al Smith dinner, Trump claimed that “the end of the coronavirus pandemic is in sight.”

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/st ... oronavirus

So much for all that hydroxychloroquine that he took.

[c_hawkbob]

Well ain't this just rich with irony?

I hope they both get sick as hell and fully recover.

[RiverDog]

Well ain't this just rich with irony?

I hope they both get sick as hell and fully recover.

I can't think of a bigger, public irony than this one, and my memory goes back close to 60 years. I can hear one of my friends, a deeply religious man, saying that this is proof positive that God does exist.

I certainly don't want to see the First Lady get sick as hell as she's been relatively compliant, or at least more so than the POTUS, and isn't the A-hole that her husband is, but it wouldn't hurt my feelings to see the Chief Buffoon get sick enough to where it scares the hell out of him.

VP Mike Pence has tested negative. No word yet on Joe Biden but there's a possibility he could have contracted it from Trump during the debate. As much yelling that was going on, the 6' separation between the two might not be enough distance for the 90 minutes they were on stage.

This is going to shake up more than just the POTUS. For one, the stock market is going to take a huge dive, and the election has been thrown into a state of uncertainty. I even heard one talking head suggest that it could be postponed.

[obiken]

Well ain't this just rich with irony?

I hope they both get sick as hell and fully recover.

I agree!!

[Aseahawkfan]

Hawktawk's prayers have been answered.

This aught to definitely sink Trump's re-election chances unless it passes quick.

Seems when you have no plan, politicize a virus, and generally act like you just want it to get over with so the economy can roar back to life you might get sick from the virus.

[RiverDog]

Hawktawk's prayers have been answered.

This aught to definitely sink Trump's re-election chances unless it passes quick.

Seems when you have no plan, politicize a virus, and generally act like you just want it to get over with so the economy can roar back to life you might get sick from the virus.

Much of the White House staff has been very careless, especially so over the past few weeks, so it shouldn't be a huge surprise that eventually someone big would contract the virus.

Biden tested negative this morning, and he's wasting no time taking advantage of the opening Trump has given him by promoting the wearing of masks when in public. So much for Trump's mocking him during the debate about his mask wearing.

They're now reporting that Trump is running a fever. If he's going to get ill enough to be hospitalized, it's most likely to happen within the next 11 days. He's in two high risk categories, age and obesity.

As far as the election goes, things weren't looking good before this news broke as polling data has suggested that the debate hurt him. Now this moves the discussion back to the virus, which was a weakness before he got infected which will only get magnified. It knocks down his Hail Mary, which was the SCOTUS appointment/confirmation. I can't see any way that Trump wins re-election, to the contrary, I'm fully expecting a Biden landslide.

[I-5]

I won't wish death for him, but like Bob said, I hope he will now understand and experience the suffering he has caused needlessly with his narcissistic, reckless, and callous approach to the virus. He was making fun of Biden wearing a mask even on the debate stage, and as often as he could at every rally. It now looks like the event held on the white house lawn to nominate Amy Coney Barrett is going to be remembered as a potential superspreader event, not to mention potentially other events this week, like the dinner he attended with about 100 donors at his golf club in New Jersey, everyone who flew with him on Air Force One, including Kayleigh McEnany who gave a press briefing afterwards, and the Trump entourage refusing to wear masks against protocol (of course) in the debate audience. These are the people who are supposed to be leading us and setting the example for the nation.

Riv, what have you heard about the WH staff being careless, and which part of the staff are you talking about? I've read that the general labour staff (butlers, cooks, housekeeping, etc) have been very nervous being in the White House with virtually no one among the president's team and staff wearing masks.

[I-5]

Let's also never forget how he treated Hillary when she was down, sick with pneumonia during the campaign 4 years ago. Yes, we can be better than him, but I highly doubt he can ever be better than himself:

https://youtu.be/gT-LfVlTE94

[RiverDog]

Riv, what have you heard about the WH staff being careless, and which part of the staff are you talking about? I've read that the general labour staff (butlers, cooks, housekeeping, etc) have been very nervous being in the White House with virtually no one among the president's team and staff wearing masks.

I heard it via a news report, either CNN or NBC so I don't have a link or a quote. It did not involve maintenance, housekeeping, cooks, et al, but rather the president's personal family and staff.

Yesterday, there were three more positive tests at the White House:

At least three reporters working at the White House tested positive for the coronavirus on Friday, Zeke Miller, president of the White House Correspondents' Association, said in a letter to colleagues.

The cases follow President Trump's positive COVID-19 diagnosis and cases among other White House staffers. Multiple White House journalists are self-isolating while awaiting test results, Miller said

One reporter who received a positive test Friday morning had attended a White House briefing last Sunday. A second reporter was most recently part of the travel pool on Saturday for a trip to Pennsylvania, but was briefly at the White House earlier that day for a coronavirus test. Another journalist was most recently part of the in-town travel pool last Sunday, which included a presidential news conference and a golf course trip. The person also were in the in-town pool on Saturday, which included a Rose Garden event.

https://www.axios.com/three-white-house ... f4e97.html

[RiverDog]

Kelly Ann Conway has also tested positive as has Trump's campaign manager Bill Stepien and RNC Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel, :

"Tonight I tested positive for COVID-19," Conway wrote on Twitter Friday. She was one of several others in attendance at the White House Rose Garden on Saturday when Trump announced the nomination of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court who has since tested positive for the contagious respiratory virus. Conway was photographed in the first several rows without a face mask.

https://people.com/politics/kellyanne-c ... ronavirus/

President Donald Trump's campaign manager, Bill Stepien, has tested positive for COVID-19, the latest case of the virus to emerge within the president's inner circle and another setback for the GOP with only weeks to go before the election. The news of Stepien's results came on the same day that officials confirmed Republican National Committee chairwoman Ronna McDaniel had tested positive, leaving several key leaders in the GOP campaign effort laid up weeks before the election.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 597631001/

Add that positive tests for the President of the University of Notre Dame Rev. John Jenkins and two Republican Senators, Thom Tillis and Mike Lee, all in attendance at the press briefing last Saturday announcing Amy Coney Barrett as Trump's SCOTUS nominee which featured a packed Rose Garden with several hundred people shoulder-to-shoulder and where masks were lacking.

[Aseahawkfan]

Campaign derailed by the virus. What karma. If Trump wasn't done before, he's done now.

[c_hawkbob]

Shakespeare couldn't have written it better.

[RiverDog]

Campaign derailed by the virus. What karma. If Trump wasn't done before, he's done now.

That's what I think, too, but you never know. There is a possibility that there could be an outpouring of sympathy that could benefit Trump, but being that he's been so dismissive of the virus, flaunting medical advice, mocking Biden during the debates, etc, it probably won't materialize in a way where it would benefit his re-election chances. Plus just the logistics of Trump having to sit out at least 9 of the 32 days remaining before the election and many of his campaign staff having to go into isolation is going to hamstring their efforts.

Biden is playing this right by pulling their attack ads and ceasing his aggressive characterizations of Trump and his handling of the crisis. It's pretty hard for him on one hand expressing his sympathy and prayers for a quick recovery while slamming him for his handling of the virus.

Besides, Biden doesn't have to make people aware of anything. The press has been doing that for him by talking about the absence of masks and social distancing at various events that has involved the POTUS. Yesterday, Biden's live televised speech sounded more like a public service announcement, urging others to take the virus seriously, wear masks, wash their hands, avoid large crowds, etc. He doesn't have to even mention Trump's name as even the simplest minded person can complete Biden's sentences by saying to themselves "and don't act like that stupid idiot Donald Trump."

[RiverDog]

A question for you guys: With all the infections that have occurred at the White House in the past few days, why haven't the closed the entire facility, temporarily moved everyone out, and embarked on a complete sanitation and decontamination process?

My former employer, a food processor, had to do this several times, closing an entire facility of 700+ employees when only a couple positives were traced back to the plant. Why would the White House be any different?

[I-5]

The WH is a giant petrie dish of coronavirus at this point. How ironic that the POTUS probably patient zero at the White House, since he is the common link among almost all the cases, and I read that it’s likely Hope Hicks caught it from Trump, not the other way around. They should close it down and disinfect the WH at this point. Kayleigh McEnany also exposed the press briefing to the virus, if you figure the incubation period of her positive test, and she was on AF1.

Having said all that, I doubt they will finally take it seriously. Their hubris knows no limits, and the true believers still don’t see masks and social distancing as a solution, based on what I’ve seen in social media. To put it in perspective, Taiwan has a population of 25 million and 7 deaths total...their only protocol besides contact tracing...masks and social distancing.

We all may still be proud to be americans, but as a country, the US has lost credibility, nowhere moreso than the pandemic. Where we are today is less stable than anyone here could have predicted a few months ago. This is a national security crisis, if you didn’t think the revelation of Trump’s finances, his huge personal loans coming due and possible ties to russian oligarchs was before. I know ASF keeps hammering why china is a much bigger threat than the Russians, but I would ask, what kind of leverage do the chinese have in Trump that is personal?

[RiverDog]

The WH is a giant petrie dish of coronavirus at this point. How ironic that the POTUS probably patient zero at the White House, since he is the common link among almost all the cases, and I read that it’s likely Hope Hicks caught it from Trump, not the other way around. They should close it down and disinfect the WH at this point. Kayleigh McEnany also exposed the press briefing to the virus, if you figure the incubation period of her positive test, and she was on AF1.

My former employer has food processing facilities in the neighborhood of 500,000 square feet and employ 500-700 FTE's. They have a lot of processing equipment, ie blanchers, fryers, dryers, and so forth, use well over a million gallons of water a day, a lot of which is lost through evaporation, so they have to exhaust a lot of air/water vapor, meaning that the air circulation is much greater than your average home or office. Plus with all that water being used, it's a very humid environment that viruses generally don't like. If they had more than a couple positive COVID tests that the health department could trace back to the facility, they got shut down for days and a cost of tens of thousands of dollars, and did so without objection, just saluted and said "Yes, sir!"

Compare that to the White House, which has about 55,000 square feet and 1800 employees, not counting all the press and others that are in and out and although I'm sure they have more than adequate ventilation, it wouldn't compare to that of a large scale processing facility and the atmosphere would be more receptive to a virus. I'm no expert, but just those facts would seem to indicate that a facility like the White House should be subject to even more stringent standards than my employer's plants.

Having said all that, I doubt they will finally take it seriously. Their hubris knows no limits, and the true believers still don’t see masks and social distancing as a solution, based on what I’ve seen in social media. To put it in perspective, Taiwan has a population of 25 million and 7 deaths total...their only protocol besides contact tracing...masks and social distancing.

I dunno about that. This could be a huge wake-up call for a lot of people. I know that my Deplorable friends on my Facebook feed are relatively quiet.

We all may still be proud to be americans, but as a country, the US has lost credibility, nowhere moreso than the pandemic. Where we are today is less stable than anyone here could have predicted a few months ago. This is a national security crisis, if you didn’t think the revelation of Trump’s finances, his huge personal loans coming due and possible ties to russian oligarchs was before. I know ASF keeps hammering why china is a much bigger threat than the Russians, but I would ask, what kind of leverage do the chinese have in Trump that is personal?

We've lost credibility in terms of our response to a health care crisis, that's for sure. But foreign businesses and tourists will still keep coming here, doctors and other professionals will still come here for their educations, and foreign customers will continue to buy our products. And course, our military isn't going to lose any credibility.

[Aseahawkfan]

The WH is a giant petrie dish of coronavirus at this point. How ironic that the POTUS probably patient zero at the White House, since he is the common link among almost all the cases, and I read that it’s likely Hope Hicks caught it from Trump, not the other way around. They should close it down and disinfect the WH at this point. Kayleigh McEnany also exposed the press briefing to the virus, if you figure the incubation period of her positive test, and she was on AF1.

Having said all that, I doubt they will finally take it seriously. Their hubris knows no limits, and the true believers still don’t see masks and social distancing as a solution, based on what I’ve seen in social media. To put it in perspective, Taiwan has a population of 25 million and 7 deaths total...their only protocol besides contact tracing...masks and social distancing.

We all may still be proud to be americans, but as a country, the US has lost credibility, nowhere moreso than the pandemic. Where we are today is less stable than anyone here could have predicted a few months ago. This is a national security crisis, if you didn’t think the revelation of Trump’s finances, his huge personal loans coming due and possible ties to russian oligarchs was before. I know ASF keeps hammering why china is a much bigger threat than the Russians, but I would ask, what kind of leverage do the chinese have in Trump that is personal?

Until I see these loans, you're speculating and China is much more dangerous. How is Russia benefitting right now? Explain to me what you see economically or politically that is different now than it was under other presidents involving Russia? I see no benefit obtained by Russia having a relationship with Trump. So if Russia did somehow install Trump and Trump is the Kremlin Candidate, I would call it a huge fail that did not benefit Russia at all.

So I don't know why you continue to push this theory without proof of these loans or other exchange or that Russia benefitted.

Whereas with China you have clear proof of the following: We could not enact the Defense Production Act for PPE, certain life saving drugs, and rare metals involved in various advanced manufacturing because China controls so much of the market and we have not maintained our domestic market for these items. Now are you interested in truth or are you interested conspiracy theories? The Russian loans and supposed beneficial relationship between Russia and Trump is heavy speculation, whereas finding how much important manufacturing has been moved out of America is a very real, evidence based example of China's influence in America. Do you like China being that involved in our supply chains for important items like masks, rare earth metals, and drugs?

So to put it simply, China has leverage on more businesses and the people who own them including their government connections that make the influence Russia allegedly has on a single president seem small and insignificant. All you have to do is spend some days reading on how much we produce in China and abroad to see how bad this is for our nations should other nations try to use cutting us off as leverage. You have noticed Trump's trade war has done next to nothing to slow down China's economic growth? Useless trade war because of how much money we make off China now by our businesses and how much money China makes off us selling us their products.

[Aseahawkfan]

We've lost credibility in terms of our response to a health care crisis, that's for sure. But foreign businesses and tourists will still keep coming here, doctors and other professionals will still come here for their educations, and foreign customers will continue to buy our products. And course, our military isn't going to lose any credibility.

Fortunately for America our credibility and such has a chance to change every 4 to 8 years and the world understands that. We don't have a ruling party pretending to be a Democracy like China, Russia, and similar nations. We have a real Democracy where we change presidents every 4 to 8 years. Our credibility at least from the White House changes depending on the candidate in a lot of different ways that many Americans don't even understand. With Biden we may immediately improve our relationship with China and Europe, but may immediately be viewed as weak and exploitable by the Middle Eastern nations, North Korea, and similar nations. It all depends on how we interact with them.

I know some on here want to paint the Iran Nuclear Deal as something we should keep in place, but I know those people are either ignorant as to what a good deal is or don't even know what is in the deal. Because the Iran Deal was Obama backing one of his cabinet members on a terrible deal with a nation who thought they had bamboozled us into making a deal that barely affects them and would have given them the means to build up huge amounts of cash to restore their dwindling power in Iran. I hope Biden does not reinstate that terrible, embarrassing Iran deal if he gets back into office.

[RiverDog]

Fortunately for America our credibility and such has a chance to change every 4 to 8 years and the world understands that. We don't have a ruling party pretending to be a Democracy like China, Russia, and similar nations. We have a real Democracy where we change presidents every 4 to 8 years. Our credibility at least from the White House changes depending on the candidate in a lot of different ways that many Americans don't even understand. With Biden we may immediately improve our relationship with China and Europe, but may immediately be viewed as weak and exploitable by the Middle Eastern nations, North Korea, and similar nations. It all depends on how we interact with them.

Good point about our system of government being more dynamic than other societies.

Besides, I don't know how a bad response to a pandemic would cause someone to think of America being a worse place to live in, to do business with, to enter into treaties with, etc. People aren't going to quit trying to emigrate here because of our response to COVID.

[I-5]

For the record, I would love nothing more than to be wrong about the road to tyranny (at least attempted tyranny) that I and I few others feel we've been heading, and we'll all wake up Nov 4 to a CLEAR Biden win, a promise from Trump for a smooth transition of power without the courts tying it up, the nightmare of the last 4 years will be over, and as ASF said, the road back to stability will put America back in its proper place as the leading country of the Free World. I want this, so I will happily come to this forum and post that it was much ado about nothing.

On another note, I do think China is a bigger threat in terms of scale, and the global economy, but I'm not talking about who's bigger. I'm saying I think Trump is acting partially in Putin's interest out of some type of leverage that is suspected by a lot smarter people than you and me. Why? Two facts: 1) the documents that the NY Times unearthed pointed to about $300M in PERSONAL loans coming to maturity in the near future - Trump has called himself the King of Debt. 2) since American banks stopped making loans to Trump in the 90's after all of his defaults, Trump has been working with (let's face it, dirty) Russian money for the past 20 years, with Deutsch Bank involved as well. No one does business in Russia without understanding who's in charge - it's Putin pulling all the strings above, and no one else. This doesn't mean that Russia is the biggest threat, it just means that there is suspicion that Putin has this type of leverage on Trump, which explains Trump's extremely deferential, almost cowering demeanor in Helsinki. If you disagree, maybe you can explain why you think Trump all but threw the US intelligence under the bus in front of the world.

You asked how does Russia benefit? The answer is as much as it can, for whatever it's worth to Putin. Examples:
1) Trump's decision to withdraw troops from Syria benefitted Russian influence in the region
2) Consulting with Putin on policy towards withholding funding from Ukraine (instead of consulting with the State Dept) definitely benefits Russia
3) Destabilizing NATO by threatening to pull out repeatedly benefits Russia (but in the long run might backfire if it results in a stronger EU military complex - I didn't say Putin was the smartest)
4) Trump repeatedly lobbied the G7 to reinstate Russia, which got Putin really excited (of course, the UK and Canada will never let that happen, but why does Trump care so much?)
5) Trump's decision to pull 12k troops from Germany benefits mainly Russia, despite Trump's transparent spin that it would strengthen NATO then later saying it's because Germany doesn't pay enough for their own defense.

These are just the ones I can think of. I'm not comparing Russia to China and saying one is worse - China is a bigger threat. But China doesn't have what Putin clearly has on Trump. I'm not here to convince you what is apparent to high level intelligence officials in the US that suspect he is a tool (if not as asset) of Putin.

[RiverDog]

To steer this thread back on course, there's been quite a controversy over the details about the President's health that has arose since his announced positive test.

Yesterday morning, White House physician Dr. Sean Conley was asked several questions that either ducked or gave conflicting answers to, such as whether or not Trump had been on oxygen or if his lungs have been damaged, when he last tested negative for COVID, he said that the POTUS had been fever free for 24 hours but did not disclose if he was on fever reducing medicines. Dr. Conley basically gave a rosy assessment of Trump's health. Conley then raised eyebrows by saying Trump was "72 hours in" to the disease, which would have meant before he left to Minnesota for a fund raiser event. The White House corrected that remark by saying that the doctor meant that Trump was entering his 3rd day.

Then a statement attributed to Chief of Staff Mark Meadows was given to the press that "the president's vitals over the last 24 hours were very concerning and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care. We're still not on a clear path to a full recovery." Trump himself had remained uncharacteristically quiet, not making any Twitter posts about anything for 12 hours, which has to be a personal record for him. As you would expect, the press is going ballistic over the conflicting statements and lack of transparency, with all sorts of doctors weighing in on the importance as to whether or not Trump has been on oxygen, when he last received a negative test, etc.

Meanwhile, another member of Trump's close aides, Nick Luna, known as one of Trump's "body men" and was onboard AF1 Tuesday to the debate and Wednesday to the rally in MN, has tested positive for COVID.

One of the pivotal fork in the road moments comes after the 8th day of infection when conditions either get better or they "drop off a cliff". That puts the timeline out Tuesday or Wednesday. Until then, for those of us that remember the assassination attempt on Ronald Reagan, there's going to be a lot of conflicting and erroneous reports regarding the President's health, who's in charge, and so on. If 2020 wasn't a whacky enough year, it's about to get even whackier.

[Aseahawkfan]

For the record, I would love nothing more than to be wrong about the road to tyranny (at least attempted tyranny) that I and I few others feel we've been heading, and we'll all wake up Nov 4 to a CLEAR Biden win, a promise from Trump for a smooth transition of power without the courts tying it up, the nightmare of the last 4 years will be over, and as ASF said, the road back to stability will put America back in its proper place as the leading country of the Free World. I want this, so I will happily come to this forum and post that it was much ado about nothing.

On another note, I do think China is a bigger threat in terms of scale, and the global economy, but I'm not talking about who's bigger. I'm saying I think Trump is acting partially in Putin's interest out of some type of leverage that is suspected by a lot smarter people than you and me. Why? Two facts: 1) the documents that the NY Times unearthed pointed to about $300M in PERSONAL loans coming to maturity in the near future - Trump has called himself the King of Debt. 2) since American banks stopped making loans to Trump in the 90's after all of his defaults, Trump has been working with (let's face it, dirty) Russian money for the past 20 years, with Deutsch Bank involved as well. No one does business in Russia without understanding who's in charge - it's Putin pulling all the strings above, and no one else. This doesn't mean that Russia is the biggest threat, it just means that there is suspicion that Putin has this type of leverage on Trump, which explains Trump's extremely deferential, almost cowering demeanor in Helsinki. If you disagree, maybe you can explain why you think Trump all but threw the US intelligence under the bus in front of the world.

You asked how does Russia benefit? The answer is as much as it can, for whatever it's worth to Putin. Examples:
1) Trump's decision to withdraw troops from Syria benefitted Russian influence in the region
2) Consulting with Putin on policy towards withholding funding from Ukraine (instead of consulting with the State Dept) definitely benefits Russia
3) Destabilizing NATO by threatening to pull out repeatedly benefits Russia (but in the long run might backfire if it results in a stronger EU military complex - I didn't say Putin was the smartest)
4) Trump repeatedly lobbied the G7 to reinstate Russia, which got Putin really excited (of course, the UK and Canada will never let that happen, but why does Trump care so much?)
5) Trump's decision to pull 12k troops from Germany benefits mainly Russia, despite Trump's transparent spin that it would strengthen NATO then later saying it's because Germany doesn't pay enough for their own defense.

These are just the ones I can think of. I'm not comparing Russia to China and saying one is worse - China is a bigger threat. But China doesn't have what Putin clearly has on Trump. I'm not here to convince you what is apparent to high level intelligence officials in the US that suspect he is a tool (if not as asset) of Putin.

1. Do you understand the Syrian conflict? We should never have been there. Assad is only siding with Russia because we are with Saudi Arabia. Assad is Alawite which is a subsect of Shia. Saudi Arabia and the Wahhabi, the same people who coordinated 9/11, were the rebel side. If we helped the rebels in Syria, we would have been setting up another Wahhabi/Isis/Al Qaeda stronghold nation. We should not involve ourselves in that nation. There is no way to help them effectively. That is what I am talking about as to why you can't trust the Democrats. You've obviously been reading something indicating that us involving ourselves in Syria was somehow smart, but it wasn't. The Wahhabi/Sunni rebels are so willing to sacrifice themselves, they may have engineered the massacres themselves to get the United States involved against Syria, just like they engineer terrorist attacks against anyone that stands against them. Assad keeps the peace against the terrorists like Saddam did in Iraq. He is only friends with Russia because we won't ally with them because they and Saudi Arabia don't get alone, same as with Iran.

2. No idea when this happened. I'd need a link. Or is this more speculation?

3. The groups he is with have been wanting to pull out of NATO for ages. That has little to do with Russia. I don't like the fact that America funds NATO and it wouldn't exist without us. I wish you would spend time reading on how we foot the bill for NATO and don't get much help doing so in terms of manpower or money.

4. This is concerning. We'll see where the loans go to see if there is more to it. Russia's annexation of Ukraine was pretty dirty.

5. Since I'm for pulling more of our troops home, I don't mind this. I'd love to see other nations pick up their military slack. I'm tired of sending U.S. troops abroad to have our country and people insulted and used as nothing more than props for power groups in other nations to further their power. Germany is very capable of militarizing again and should do so. Not sure if you have noticed, but the majority of the world is run by tyrannical groups. Trump isn't even close to a tyrant. People in Western nations thinking Trump is tyrannical further shows me they don't know what tyranny is and have no idea how much of the world lives in real tyranny where they might die by becoming part of a competing power group daily.

Trump was friendly towards Russia and Eastern Europe prior to the election. He married two women from Eastern Europe. He likes Eastern Europe and Russia. I would not pretend he does not. What I do not think though is he in Russia's pocket or anything of that kind. I think he likes to do business with them and has for a while.

I''m not sure how that is different from our nation doing business with China, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, and tons of other dictators and bad men. For some reason you are able to give a pass to our relationship with other dictatorial nations who use us for power when Obama or a Democrat is president, yet you buy into the Democrats boogiemen when a Republican is president. It is why I have such trouble with people who claim to want moral rightness or are against dictatorships, when we in America regardless of who is president have so many strong relationships monetarily, militarily, and politically with so many dictatorial nations. Do you ever ask yourself why we conduct drone assassinations based on Saudi Arabian intelligence? Or sell them weapons? Or are heavily invested in China when they just eliminated Democracy in Hong Kong and won't' let Taiwan declare themselves independent? Are the Democrats and Republicans in the pockets of China and Saudi Arabia? If so, why aren't you concerned about those relationships? Because the media hasn't sold you on it? It's real hard to take people accusing Trump of Russia involvement seriously, when our nation is so heavily invested in other nations sending billions abroad to dictators and authoritarian regimes barely disguising themselves as Democracies to make our policy defensible to ignorant Americans who choose to ignore how bad our policies are. I have to ask what makes Trump so different from the rest of the people in our government who sign off to send billions to men as bad or worse than Putin?

[curmudgeon]

Bravo! It’s the government.

[I-5]

there's been quite a controversy over the details about the President's health that has arose since his announced positive test.

Riv, you can count on the POTUS to continue to try to control the narrative as much as possible, regardless of how related to the truth it is or not. His Covid-19 diagnosis changes nothing. In hindsight, even his tweet on Friday that he and the First Lady tested positive was a bit of an inaccurate statement, or rather accurate but a couple days late, as the timeline when listening to his doctors talk put him possibly knowing about his diagnosis on Wednesday night. He will lie until his lips can't move or fingers can't type anymore, count on that.

[I-5]

Sorry to go off course, Riv, but to answer asf's reply to how I think Russia benefits...you're arguing whether being in NATO is a good idea or not, or pulling troops out of Germany, that's not the point. Rather I was demonstrating to you Russia's influence on Trump by these points. If you want to talk about leaving NATO being a good or bad idea, that's an entirely different conversation. The point is that Putin seems to have something on this president that makes him TALK and ACT compromised, and that makes Trump a national security risk. Can you explain why Trump would carry Russia's water to be reinstated in the G7?

[I-5]

I-5 wrote:
Having said all that, I doubt they will finally take it seriously. Their hubris knows no limits, and the true believers still don’t see masks and social distancing as a solution, based on what I’ve seen in social media. To put it in perspective, Taiwan has a population of 25 million and 7 deaths total...their only protocol besides contact tracing...masks and social distancing.


I dunno about that. This could be a huge wake-up call for a lot of people. I know that my Deplorable friends on my Facebook feed are relatively quiet.

"A senior adviser to President Donald Trump's reelection campaign said Sunday there won't be any additional safety protocols for upcoming rallies following the President's hospitalization after contracting Covid-19. Senior campaign adviser Jason Miller, when pressed by CNN's Ana Cabrera on the safety of the Trump's campaign rallies which have largely flaunted best public health practices, said the campaign would take the temperature of attendees while providing face masks and hand sanitizer -- the same steps that were in place before Trump's diagnosis."

Told ya, Riv. They don't learn, and they simply don't care.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jason-miller-trump-campaign-adviser-says-rally-protocols-won-t-change-after-president-s-coronavirus-diagnosis/ar-BB19HwJg

[RiverDog]

there's been quite a controversy over the details about the President's health that has arose since his announced positive test.

Riv, you can count on the POTUS to continue to try to control the narrative as much as possible, regardless of how related to the truth it is or not. His Covid-19 diagnosis changes nothing. In hindsight, even his tweet on Friday that he and the First Lady tested positive was a bit of an inaccurate statement, or rather accurate but a couple days late, as the timeline when listening to his doctors talk put him possibly knowing about his diagnosis on Wednesday night. He will lie until his lips can't move or fingers can't type anymore, count on that.

He's not the first POTUS to do so. Woodrow Wilson kept a debilitating stroke from the public for well over a year before his term ended, and FDR went to great lengths to keep his handicap a relative secret then prior to his election to his 4th term, hid the fact that he had an enlarged heart. JFK kept his back problems and his Addison's disease private, and Ronald Reagan came a lot closer to death in the assassination attempt than anyone ever admitted.

There's a balance between a legitimate, strategic concern about the health of the POTUS with regards to not creating a panic or an opening that our adversaries might want to take advantage and the public's right to know. I agree that the government and Trump have not been as transparent about the health of the POTUS as they should be, particularly being that voting is already underway in the election, but I don't think it's as simplistic as Trump's propensity to lie.

[RiverDog]

"A senior adviser to President Donald Trump's reelection campaign said Sunday there won't be any additional safety protocols for upcoming rallies following the President's hospitalization after contracting Covid-19. Senior campaign adviser Jason Miller, when pressed by CNN's Ana Cabrera on the safety of the Trump's campaign rallies which have largely flaunted best public health practices, said the campaign would take the temperature of attendees while providing face masks and hand sanitizer -- the same steps that were in place before Trump's diagnosis."

Told ya, Riv. They don't learn, and they simply don't care.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/jason-miller-trump-campaign-adviser-says-rally-protocols-won-t-change-after-president-s-coronavirus-diagnosis/ar-BB19HwJg

I'll have to tip my hat to you. I didn't expect them to simply act as if nothing had changed. But I still think there will be those in and around the White House and the campaign that will voluntarily change their habits.

[Hawktawk]

"Pride goes before a fall and a proud heart before destruction".Sincerely, God.

the video of a pathetic weak ashen faced Trump in a cloth mask waving frantically to hyis MAGA idiots while being driven around the block by mortified and furious secret service agents is the cherry on top of this response, this presidency, this lunacy, this insanity .

I cant wish death on him no matter how hard I try although i wouldnt mourn and he would have deserved it.

But once again it is an outrage, as Biden says "nothing this administration does is normal" Pence should be sworn in right now for the safety of americans, should have been president quite a while actually.

I relish this trump party being blown to bits in november. Its an apostasy on this nation.

[RiverDog]

"Pride goes before a fall and a proud heart before destruction".Sincerely, God.

the video of a pathetic weak ashen faced Trump in a cloth mask waving frantically to hyis MAGA idiots while being driven around the block by mortified and furious secret service agents is the cherry on top of this response, this presidency, this lunacy, this insanity .

I cant wish death on him no matter how hard I try although i wouldnt mourn and he would have deserved it.

But once again it is an outrage, as Biden says "nothing this administration does is normal" Pence should be sworn in right now for the safety of americans, should have been president quite a while actually.

I relish this trump party being blown to bits in november. Its an apostasy on this nation.

For the most part, I agree with you. Trump's joy ride in the SUV yesterday was silly, similar to his clearing peaceful protesters for a photo op in front of a church. It was classic Trump fanning his ego. And the ironic thing is that it in all likelihood didn't win him a single vote that he wouldn't have gotten anyway. If he is to benefit politically from this incident, it would be from an outpouring of sympathy, so it would be better for him to be photographed in a hospital room with an oxygen mask on vs. the backseat of an SUV.

Hang in there, my friend! Trump's chances of winning in November are getting worse every day.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump can't stand appearing weak, even against a virus. He is what he is. Doubt he'll ever change.

My friends think he'll still win from the quiet Trump majority. They just don't get people are tired of Trump. And Biden turned out not to be the easy debate victory people thought he would be. Right now, Biden looks like the stronger, smarter leader who will get America through the pandemic.

Trump looks like the fool who treated the pandemic like it was unimportant, got sick due to his stupidity, and looks weak and ignorant even now ignoring the virus as a real threat due to his immense ego.

[c_hawkbob]

He's Prince Prospero in The Masque of the Red Death. (except that he has survived the plague - so far)

[mykc14]

I'll have to tip my hat to you. I didn't expect them to simply act as if nothing had changed. But I still think there will be those in and around the White House and the campaign that will voluntarily change their habits.

Maybe, but there is no way Trump is going to just come out and say, "I was wrong about the virus." He is going to use this, and the amount of people who contracted it in the White House and their assumed quick recovery (or at least that will be the narrative) to try and show that it is not that big of a deal if managed properly.

[I-5]

try and show that it is not that big of a deal if managed properly.

Yes, and what a great message for the families of the 200k+ citizens that have lost their lives. Of course, he is also getting better care than any patient, paid for by us.

[c_hawkbob]

try and show that it is not that big of a deal if managed properly.

Yes, and what a great message for the families of the 200k+ citizens that have lost their lives. Of course, he is also getting better care than any patient, paid for by us.

He's already lost those votes anyway so no net loss. He's only worried about shoring up his base.

[RiverDog]

'll have to tip my hat to you. I didn't expect them to simply act as if nothing had changed. But I still think there will be those in and around the White House and the campaign that will voluntarily change their habits.

Maybe, but there is no way Trump is going to just come out and say, "I was wrong about the virus." He is going to use this, and the amount of people who contracted it in the White House and their assumed quick recovery (or at least that will be the narrative) to try and show that it is not that big of a deal if managed properly.

Hey, mykc! Nice to see you dipping your toes in here. I'm looking forward to seeing your perspective on various topics.

I never said that Trump himself would come and say that he was wrong about the virus. If he's shown us one thing over the past 4 years, it's that he's a confirmed narcissist that's never wrong about anything. In fact, he's already saying that his experience with the virus has taught him that it is no big deal, no worse than the flu, which, of course, is the case with the majority of those that get infected with it, even ones his age and without the care he received. My comments were strictly limited to his staff and those that interact with him.

[I-5]

I'll have to tip my hat to you. I didn't expect them to simply act as if nothing had changed. But I still think there will be those in and around the White House and the campaign that will voluntarily change their habits.

I'd rather be wrong on this, but they ALL seem to be entrenched in the idea that Covid is a political hoax. The stupidity being shown within the US is on a level not seen anywhere else on earth. Because of his rabid followers, this is a major public safety issue and I don't mean future tense. I'm disappointed that our system of government isn't prepared to override this kind of dangerous behaviour from a president. I give the Founding Fathers all the credit for their foresight in creating the greatest democracy ever, but I don't know if they were able to see this far into the abyss...I don't blame them, either.

Katie Miller, an aide to Pence, who ironically is the head of the coronavirus task force, mocked the democrats' reasonable request to add a plexiglass shield for tomorrow's debate. "If Sen. Harris wants to use a fortress around herself, have at it,” she said. What kind of adult talks like this, when her boss is supposed to be leading by example?

I think the White House are acting like their testing machine makes them feel safe, when all it can do is detect - it does nothing for prevention or safety. You'd expect them to be smart enough to understand that everytime they talk about negative tests being the excuse to let Pence and anyone else to freely move around.

[RiverDog]

I'd rather be wrong on this, but they ALL seem to be entrenched in the idea that Covid is a political hoax. The stupidity being shown within the US is on a level not seen anywhere else on earth. Because of his rabid followers, this is a major public safety issue and I don't mean future tense. I'm disappointed that our system of government isn't prepared to override this kind of dangerous behaviour from a president. I give the Founding Fathers all the credit for their foresight in creating the greatest democracy ever, but I don't know if they were able to see this far into the abyss...I don't blame them, either.

I don't think that they believe it's a hoax. IMO they believe that it is over stated, no worse than a bad flu, etc.

What concerns me isn't the behavior of Trump and his followers as much as the surveys I've seen indicating how many people will not get vaccinated once a vaccine is available. It's in the rise, nearly 50%, which means it's way more people than just Trump supporters. Since the efficacy is expected to be 70% or less, we're going to need around 90% to get vaccinated if we are to develop herd immunity and stop the spread.

Katie Miller, an aide to Pence, who ironically is the head of the coronavirus task force, mocked the democrats' reasonable request to add a plexiglass shield for tomorrow's debate. "If Sen. Harris wants to use a fortress around herself, have at it,” she said. What kind of adult talks like this, when her boss is supposed to be leading by example?

I think the White House are acting like their testing machine makes them feel safe, when all it can do is detect - it does nothing for prevention or safety. You'd expect them to be smart enough to understand that everytime they talk about negative tests being the excuse to let Pence and anyone else to freely move around.

Agreed. They're acting foolishly. Fortunately they're all going to get thrown out in another 4 months.

[mykc14]

Hey, mykc! Nice to see you dipping your toes in here. I'm looking forward to seeing your perspective on various topics.

Thanks, I've wanted to reply on here for awhile, but I just don't have a lot of time. Anyway overall we've got a lot of great perspectives on this site and it seems like it is typically pretty good and respectful political discussion.

[mykc14]

I don't think that they believe it's a hoax. IMO they believe that it is over stated, no worse than a bad flu, etc.

What concerns me isn't the behavior of Trump and his followers as much as the surveys I've seen indicating how many people will not get vaccinated once a vaccine is available. It's in the rise, nearly 50%, which means it's way more people than just Trump supporters. Since the efficacy is expected to be 70% or less, we're going to need around 90% to get vaccinated if we are to develop herd immunity and stop the spread.

I don't think I would jump in line to get a vaccine for myself or my kids. I've got to look at the risk vs reward. What are the side effects vs. me and my families overall risk of having a negative outcome if we were to catch the virus. If I were older (55+) or had other health conditions that dramatically raised my risk I would get it. I understand how vaccines work and the idea of creating a herd immunity is important, but this isn't Polio or Ebola in terms of individual risk. At this point I would imagine a largely untested vaccine poses more of a risk to most of the population than the virus itself. This might make it seem like I am taking the virus lightly (I am not) but I would argue that maybe some people are taking the possible side effects of a vaccine- both long term and short term- lightly. I am not an anti-vaxer, my kids are vaccinated for the most part but if you look at the amount of vaccination kids are getting today compared to 25 years ago it is pretty eye opening.