Plot to kidnap Whitmer

[Aseahawkfan]

I thought I was commenting about the idea of 'forced collectivism'...on that count, I've NEVER heard anything about that. Please educate me if it's out there that AOC discussed this. I would be very much against anything that is actually socialist by definition.

As far these incidents you're talking about....what incidents are they? Can you point me to an article or something? There are so many dumpster fires raging in the US I can't keep track anymore. Thanks.

You must be happy you live in Canada. This is the only time I've honestly contemplated moving to another State or nation for purely political reasons. The right may scare you more, but the left scares me more. The language control, the cancel culture, the constant protests, the push for race as a way to review criminal activity and behavior, the lack of acknowledgment of bad actors based on race, the mob mentality deciding justice rather than a review of laws and policy, the attacks on various people for their political viewpoints by the left such as actors or public figures who don't fall in line with their thinking. It's a terrible environment for freedom right now.

[I-5]

You must be happy you live in Canada.

At this time, yes I'm glad to be in Canada. So only the left scares you? Don't extremists from both sides scare you? I've never heard of 'language control'...is that another term for political correctness, along with 'cancel culture'? That, along with protests, is the least of your worries or mine. It's one of the rights given to everyone who has grievances that feels the need to be redressed...that's how they designed it. Now, if you're talking about physical violence, or threats about it, that's what scares me, and it happens on both sides. Both are scary, especially when they involve armed men and women.

[RiverDog]

As far these incidents you're talking about....what incidents are they? Can you point me to an article or something? There are so many dumpster fires raging in the US I can't keep track anymore. Thanks.

You're behind. Page 2 of this thread contains 4 timely articles of incidents committed by persons not connected with WSE's:

https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/ ... a5b2e85bc6

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/202 ... treet.html

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/spd-po ... I5IE6VFM4/

https://www.king5.com/article/news/comm ... 24c11ced79

I encourage you to go back and read the comments, but the gist of the my remarks about those incidents, which are clearly an unintended consequence of the BLM protests, is that the left has tended to rationalize these events as a necessary step, collateral damage if you will, in order to achieve the far greater goals of the BLM movement. I don't what to lump you into the group, but some people are all up in arms about a 'scary' foiled plot to kidnap a governor while the much greater threat to life and property is not being perpetuated by WSE's.

[RiverDog]

You must be happy you live in Canada. This is the only time I've honestly contemplated moving to another State or nation for purely political reasons. The right may scare you more, but the left scares me more. The language control, the cancel culture, the constant protests, the push for race as a way to review criminal activity and behavior, the lack of acknowledgment of bad actors based on race, the mob mentality deciding justice rather than a review of laws and policy, the attacks on various people for their political viewpoints by the left such as actors or public figures who don't fall in line with their thinking. It's a terrible environment for freedom right now.

Although these past 5 months have been the worst I've experienced since the 60's, I'm not as frustrated as you apparently are. Most of what ails us, both economically and socially, is related to the pandemic, and my hope is that when it's gone, so will most of the violence.

The rise of WSE's obviously concerns me, but IMO it was brought on, or at least intensified, by two factors: Trump is giving the movement credibility by not coming out and denouncing them, to the contrary, he's been giving them a wink and a nod. But no less of a factor is that the left has enabled WSE's by refusing to reel in the uncontrolled violence that many of our large cities, of which they control the political apparatus, have experienced this summer. They've tied the hands of police, indeed disrespected and demoralized them them by threatening to defund them, refused to bring in the National Guard to restore peace, turned loose those they have arrested without facing any consequences for their criminal activity. It's been a summer marked by a literal orgy of widespread looting, vandalism, and anarchy. WSE's feed off that chit, see it as a call to arms.

We'll see how the election goes. I'm hoping for a landslide Biden win as I truly believe that things will improve under a President Biden.

[Aseahawkfan]

At this time, yes I'm glad to be in Canada. So only the left scares you? Don't extremists from both sides scare you? I've never heard of 'language control'...is that another term for political correctness, along with 'cancel culture'? That, along with protests, is the least of your worries or mine. It's one of the rights given to everyone who has grievances that feels the need to be redressed...that's how they designed it. Now, if you're talking about physical violence, or threats about it, that's what scares me, and it happens on both sides. Both are scary, especially when they involve armed men and women.

No, the right doesn't concern me as much. The right is what? White Supremacists? No one supports that garbage on any large scale any more, neither party. Militias? I watched them torn apart in the 90s after the Oklahoma bombing. Government will rip apart militias if they get out of line. Fascists? No one supports fascism on any large scale. No one will.

But these attacks on anyone speaking out politically or doing anything the left deems inappropriate or insensitive to the point of being fired is downright draconian. It's the antithesis of freedom. The Democrats talk of "We believe in science" while their followers are trying to toss out gender and force us all to accept their view of gender and sexuality. The complete blame of the police for incidents involving shootings of men of African descent even when it is very obvious the person being shot was not acting in any reasonable manner.

In Seattle specifically, allowing a group of protesters to force police out of a precinct with threat of violence and take over six blocks of a city for weeks. Allowing a socialist like Kshawa Sawant to violently enter City Hall. The City Council voting a head tax on corporations for making them pay a penalty for hiring people. Telling the police to allow heroin addicts to shoot up on the Seattle. Homeless encampments or what you have heard in the news as sanctuary cities all over Washington State filled with homeless drug addicts committing property crimes the police are told to allow.

Maybe it's because I work in Seattle and live in Washington State, but the left scares me far more than the right. I'm not sure where you live or what they are doing in Canada, but Washington State has some really crazy left wing stuff going on. Maybe if I lived in Alabama and the KKK was marching around committing hate crimes, I'd be more concerned with the Right. But where I live the extreme left is a much bigger worry. The politicians here lean so far left they are borderline looking to socialize Washington State. Sawant outright declared she wanted to take over Amazon.

Maybe that's the nature of it. Depending on where you live is who you fear more. For me the leftist ideology and drug culture is strong in Washington State. I doubt I'll retire here if it continues as it is. This is not the Washington State I grew up in. I'll have to move to somewhere more sensible than live in a cesspool where I can't even have a conversation on the streets of Seattle without a homeless drug addict begging me for money to feed their addiction. I literally have been accosted by so many homeless drug addicts working in Seattle that I don't go to 7 11 in Seattle any more and wear a homeless torn up jacket so they will hopefully leave me alone when I'm working or riding the bus. You can tell they're drug addicts. Their rotten teeth, bugged out eyes, shaking hands, and that drugged out look on their face as they pretend they're asking for the money for something other than to feed their addiction. It is across multiple shifts as I've this happen on day, swing, and grave. It fricking sickens me that this is tolerated in an American city.

[Aseahawkfan]

Just to add how terrible Seattle is with the left and why I fear the left more where I live, as I was driving to work today posted along Seattle overpasses was the slogan, "No good cops in a racist system." This how the extreme left is in Washington State, one of the most liberal states in the United States. They view the system as racist even in Washington State who did not even exist during slavery and are protesting, vandalizing, and creating chaos.

Here is what Evergreen College did including attacking a liberal professor who disagreed with this stance: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/may/17/evergreen-college-students-back-it-no-white-people/

The highly liberal professor suing the even more liberal school for questioning No Whites Day: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/education/evergreen-professor-plans-to-sue-college-for-385-million/

This is Washington State and Oregon right now. No idea where the extreme left came from, but they seem to have found a haven in these states.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

This is one of their other plans. Sounds great to people who believe this will improve life. Sounds terrible to people who don't want to live around heroin addicts as it will attract more to the city.
https://crosscut.com/2019/04/seattle-officials-vow-move-forward-safe-injection-sites-despite-us-attorney-threat

I5, you asked why I fear the left more. The above are just a few incidents in Washington State. I plan to move at some point. I think Seattle is a left infested lost cause. If other people want to live around homeless heroin addicts thinking they will get better because you give them the heroin for free, they can have at it. Or want to be called out for the color of their skin as automatically racist because the system, they can have it. Not sure how these people got elected to a City Council, but if this is the direction of Democratic cities, I do not want to live in them.

[RiverDog]

There's a dramatic, noticeable difference between western Washington/Oregon and the eastern halves of the two states, and it's been getting more and more polarized over the past two decades. A Republican hasn't won a state wide election in Washington since 1994. Many people in eastern Washington are extremely upset with Seattle area politicians foisting their views on us, which in the past has included everything from studded snow tires to breaching the lower Snake River dams. The most dramatic event was the passage of I-1639, a very controversial gun control law that a number of county sheriffs, including the current Republican candidate for governor, refused to enforce. I've been a life long resident of eastern Washington and I've never seen it so bad. There's a movement for counties east of the Cascades to break off and form their own state. One proposal had eastern Washington merging with Idaho and counties in eastern Oregon.

All of that has been occurring before the riots in Seattle and Portland, which will only serve to deepen the divide. Personally I'm opposed to such a measure and it will never happen as it would require a Constitutional amendment, but I can sympathize with the sentiment.

What's been going on in WA is a microcosm of the country. The biggest challenge for President Biden will be to heal these wounds, or at least to stop the bleeding, and he's not going to do it by embracing the liberal agenda like packing SCOTUS.

[Hawktawk]

A man was arrested in minnesota for having fired an AK 47 repeatedly into a police station. Antifa? nope it was a white supremacist hoping to blame BLM and start a race war. Not sure if Fox covered that one. The violence is not all on one side and its continued in part because of goons like this. I've heard the majority of arrests have not been antifa or BLM but these violent jackasses. Everyone needs to go home .

[Aseahawkfan]

I have talked to people from The Southern states. They say right wing racists are way worse there. KKK marches and lots of racist epithets and stay in your area type of garbage. I imagine if I lived in the South, I'd be more worried about those type of people. I know c-bob lives in the South from what he's posted, he probably has to deal with more of the hyper-conservative, racist loons where he lives. Fortunately I don't have to deal with many of those folks in Western Washington. I don't like those kind of people. Anyone giving someone else a hard time for the physical characteristics of their birth don't belong in America as far as I'm concerned.

[RiverDog]

I have talked to people from The Southern states. They say right wing racists are way worse there. KKK marches and lots of racist epithets and stay in your area type of garbage. I imagine if I lived in the South, I'd be more worried about those type of people. I know c-bob lives in the South from what he's posted, he probably has to deal with more of the hyper-conservative, racist loons where he lives. Fortunately I don't have to deal with many of those folks in Western Washington. I don't like those kind of people. Anyone giving someone else a hard time for the physical characteristics of their birth don't belong in America as far as I'm concerned.

I don't have to deal with many of those types out here, either. My place of employment was about 70% minorities and/or foreign born. Over half of Franklin County is foreign born, so by definition, I don't run into many bigots. It would be a pretty uncomfortable area to live and work in if that sort of environment bothered a person. That's not to say that we don't have racists out here, just that they're not organized or blatantly verbal about it, at least not from what I've ever observed.

And obviously, I agree with you, that anyone that has a problem with skin color, accents, sexual orientation, religion, or other characteristics that cause some not to fit in with the norm don't deserve to live in America. That's the primary reason why I'm against Donald Trump.

FYI C-bob lives in Kentucky. If he's listening, I'd be interested to hear what things are like in his neck of the woods.

[RiverDog]

A man was arrested in minnesota for having fired an AK 47 repeatedly into a police station. Antifa? nope it was a white supremacist hoping to blame BLM and start a race war. Not sure if Fox covered that one. The violence is not all on one side and its continued in part because of goons like this. I've heard the majority of arrests have not been antifa or BLM but these violent jackasses. Everyone needs to go home .

I hadn't heard of that one, either.

You're right, there's violent jackasses from both ends of the spectrum, and they should have all gone home...or behind bars...months ago. It's the tepid response that our mostly liberal politicians in the big cities and governor's mansions that allowed this situation to fester.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't have to deal with many of those types out here, either. My place of employment was about 70% minorities and/or foreign born. Over half of Franklin County is foreign born, so by definition, I don't run into many bigots. It would be a pretty uncomfortable area to live and work in if that sort of environment bothered a person. That's not to say that we don't have racists out here, just that they're not organized or blatantly verbal about it, at least not from what I've ever observed.

And obviously, I agree with you, that anyone that has a problem with skin color, accents, sexual orientation, religion, or other characteristics that cause some not to fit in with the norm don't deserve to live in America. That's the primary reason why I'm against Donald Trump.

FYI C-bob lives in Kentucky. If he's listening, I'd be interested to hear what things are like in his neck of the woods.

Yeah. I don't give a crap about homosexuality. I don't care about someone wanting to change their gender as long as I don't have to pay for it with my taxes. What people do in their bedrooms or with their bodies is their business. What I think about that should not be policy unless someone is harming someone else.

But I sure dislike and rebel against the transgender women competing against females in sport after spending most of their lives as males. I don't like being told I have to memorize every single term for gender and sexuality someone decides to use. I'm not wasting the memory space for sapiosexual, pansexual, cisgender, nonbinary, or all the other strange terms people come up with to carve out some weird niche that isn't covered by the basic biological understanding of sexual behavior and gender. I don't care about gender norms as I don't buy into them, so I have no interest in enforcing or encouraging them them and never have. Woman wants to dress like a man or man like a woman, I don't care. Act as you want as far as I'm concerned, but don't shove all these strange terms down my throat I don't care about because you want to feel special. I get tired of people making stuff up and overcomplicating simple issues. Regular people don't want to deal with academics mentally masturbating by creating a plethora of terms and related theories that overcomplicate life. That kind of language and culture control garbage is tiresome.

[RiverDog]

Yeah. I don't give a crap about homosexuality. I don't care about someone wanting to change their gender as long as I don't have to pay for it with my taxes. What people do in their bedrooms or with their bodies is their business. What I think about that should not be policy unless someone is harming someone else.

But I sure dislike and rebel against the transgender women competing against females in sport after spending most of their lives as males. I don't like being told I have to memorize every single term for gender and sexuality someone decides to use. I'm not wasting the memory space for sapiosexual, pansexual, cisgender, nonbinary, or all the other strange terms people come up with to carve out some weird niche that isn't covered by the basic biological understanding of sexual behavior and gender. I don't care about gender norms as I don't buy into them, so I have no interest in enforcing or encouraging them them and never have. Woman wants to dress like a man or man like a woman, I don't care. Act as you want as far as I'm concerned, but don't shove all these strange terms down my throat I don't care about because you want to feel special. I get tired of people making stuff up and overcomplicating simple issues. Regular people don't want to deal with academics mentally masturbating by creating a plethora of terms and related theories that overcomplicate life. That kind of language and culture control garbage is tiresome.

I personally abhor homosexuality. It's an unnatural act, against the way we were put together, or at least that's what I was taught. It used to give me a very uneasy feeling to be around homosexuals, until I was forced to work with several of them. I actually got to like them, and my relationship with them changed my thought process.

I've made a conscious effort to suppress what was ingrained into me as a child. I've adapted a philosophy that so long as it doesn't interfere with my own life, I couldn't give a rip what someone else wants to do with theirs. The same goes with religion, drugs, suicide, or what ever. If it doesn't affect me, then I have no right to foist my lifestyle on someone else.

[Aseahawkfan]

I personally abhor homosexuality. It's an unnatural act, against the way we were put together, or at least that's what I was taught. It used to give me a very uneasy feeling to be around homosexuals, until I was forced to work with several of them. I actually got to like them, and my relationship with them changed my thought process.

I've made a conscious effort to suppress what was ingrained into me as a child. I've adapted a philosophy that so long as it doesn't interfere with my own life, I couldn't give a rip what someone else wants to do with theirs. The same goes with religion, drugs, suicide, or what ever. If it doesn't affect me, then I have no right to foist my lifestyle on someone else.

Understandable. Homosexuality occurs naturally in most animal groups to some degree. It has been a behavior in humans for thousands to tens of thousands of years. But in a culture where masculine dominance is essential for survival, it is not surprising that heterosexual males would be extremely resistant to the behavior given being dominated sexually by another male or having your male child dominated in such a way would be extremely undesirable for the survival of your bloodline. Greek armies used to do this to conquered populations taking not only the females, but the young males as sexual partners. That would be a gigantic catalyst to outlaw and ostracize such behaviors in ancient times.

But in the modern day where the behavior is by consent, it is not particularly dangerous to society as some would have people believe. It's a naturally occurring behavior in animal populations that occurs in a small enough percentage that it doesn't affect the reproductive capacity of most animal populations. So live and let live as far as I'm concerned.

[RiverDog]

Understandable. Homosexuality occurs naturally in most animal groups to some degree. It has been a behavior in humans for thousands to tens of thousands of years. But in a culture where masculine dominance is essential for survival, it is not surprising that heterosexual males would be extremely resistant to the behavior given being dominated sexually by another male or having your male child dominated in such a way would be extremely undesirable for the survival of your bloodline. Greek armies used to do this to conquered populations taking not only the females, but the young males as sexual partners. That would be a gigantic catalyst to outlaw and ostracize such behaviors in ancient times.

But in the modern day where the behavior is by consent, it is not particularly dangerous to society as some would have people believe. It's a naturally occurring behavior in animal populations that occurs in a small enough percentage that it doesn't affect the reproductive capacity of most animal populations. So live and let live as far as I'm concerned.

It's like anything else: You fear most what you know least. When I was in high school, even the science of psychology taught that homosexuality was a mental disorder and considered it deviant behavior. All I thought of them was that they were a bunch of drug addicts that hung out in downtown areas of large cities like Seattle, Spokane, and Portland. I never personally knew an individual that was openly homosexual, male or female, until I was out of college and in my 20's.

I had a similar fear of Hispanics. I grew up with a number of them in Walla Walla and they were all really great guys/gals, but they were native born, without a hint of an accent, and never spoke in Spanish. The college I went to, what is now EWU, was over 90% white with most of the rest being Native Americans or blacks and hardly any Hispanics, so when I took my first job out of college, a supervisor in a food processing plant, I was very intimidated by so many people speaking in Spanish until I was literally forced to deal with them. I discovered that my fears were completely unfounded. As a result, it doesn't bother me in the least when I hear people talking in a foreign language.

I don't think people intermingle enough, particularity those folks in rural and semi rural parts of our country. They grow up with the same conditioning that I grew up with, not having experienced other relationships from other cultures and ways of life. That was the same curse that haunted my dad, born in 1925, grew up in a nearly all white small town, and joined a military that was rigidly segregated. He never had a lot of contact with blacks, so quite naturally, he subscribed to the stereotypes he was taught.

[c_hawkbob]

I have talked to people from The Southern states. They say right wing racists are way worse there. KKK marches and lots of racist epithets and stay in your area type of garbage. I imagine if I lived in the South, I'd be more worried about those type of people. I know c-bob lives in the South from what he's posted, he probably has to deal with more of the hyper-conservative, racist loons where he lives. Fortunately I don't have to deal with many of those folks in Western Washington. I don't like those kind of people. Anyone giving someone else a hard time for the physical characteristics of their birth don't belong in America as far as I'm concerned.

I don't have to deal with many of those types out here, either. My place of employment was about 70% minorities and/or foreign born. Over half of Franklin County is foreign born, so by definition, I don't run into many bigots. It would be a pretty uncomfortable area to live and work in if that sort of environment bothered a person. That's not to say that we don't have racists out here, just that they're not organized or blatantly verbal about it, at least not from what I've ever observed.

And obviously, I agree with you, that anyone that has a problem with skin color, accents, sexual orientation, religion, or other characteristics that cause some not to fit in with the norm don't deserve to live in America. That's the primary reason why I'm against Donald Trump.

FYI C-bob lives in Kentucky. If he's listening, I'd be interested to hear what things are like in his neck of the woods.

The three things you notice most moving to Kentucky from out west (specifically Colorado, but but also Utah, Washington and California) are:

1- little bitty roads and great big ditches. These people wouldn't know what a shoulder, a curb and sidewalk or a bike lane was. Of course in city limits you might see some curbs and gutter and a storm drainage system, but not in the rural areas or even the suburbs! Yet they all drive great big trucks (not judging, I do too).

2- How nice the people you meet are! I'm serious, I was struck by how friendly and smiling and welcoming people are! At least to people that look like them ... which brings me to:

3- The very strong racist undercurrent here. I was shocked when in the first "sports bar" (1 little TV behind the bar) I went to to catch a NASCAR race to there was this straight out of the Dukes of Hazzard Boss Hog type greasy old white haired guy with an over made up blond on his elbow on this racist rant about how n*****s are ruining baseball now too (I guess they already ruined football and basketball) very loudly as though he we talking to all 8 or 9 people in the bar. I asked the bartender (a sweetheart of a gal, pretty too) if that was normal and she just said "oh it is for him sweetie". As I was leaving he asked me very loudly what my hurry was and I told to find a place that I didn't have to listen to him.

But it's not just individuals like that, even at work or in any social setting people that consider themselves too classy to use the N word still refer to them as "the blacks" and speak of them as almost a different species, even when there is no animosity. While I was home hunting I got a ridiculous amount of advice base on "oh that's a back neighborhood" or "they're really bad there".

You learn to expect it but I will say that everybody that knows me knows not to use that kind of language around me (and especially my wife, she'll jump a random stranger's sh!t in Walmart for using the N word!) or at my plant. I'm kinda the company liberal yankee ...

I will say it's not fair to talk about Kentucky without mentioning how beautiful it is in spring summer and fall (winters suck, but winter was on a weekend last year)! Overall I'm pretty happy here.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

But the bourbon, c-bob; what about the bourbon?!

[c_hawkbob]

But the bourbon, c-bob; what about the bourbon?!

Absolutely! How could I leave off the bourbon! It really is a big thing hereabouts (they know it too, it costs more here to buy bourbon than any of the neighboring states!)

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Had a great trip last fall hitting up the distilleries. Crazy thing is, EH Taylor was was plentiful in the BT gift shop yet people will fight over getting it down here in Louisiana. Wish I could see more Heaven Hill product down here to.

I digress though; to the River’s question, Louisiana and Mississippi can be very similar. Lots of nice, helpful people yet can be backwards as hell when it comes to race. I feel like my generation is much better, but still some people get it in the home.

[RiverDog]

I once worked with a guy that was a native Kentuckian. He used to talk about the smell of the honeysuckle in the springtime.

[Hawktawk]

Not sure if anyone else saw Moscow Mitches hands and lips are all black and blue? Looks like he had too much bourbon and did a fly swatter. C hawk bob what’s the scuttlebutt there in Kentucky ? As for the south I worked in construction in Georgia in the early 80s and supervisors on the hydro dam we worked on would use the N word to their face , treat them like they still were slaves .

[c_hawkbob]

Not sure if anyone else saw Moscow Mitches hands and lips are all black and blue? Looks like he had too much bourbon and did a fly swatter. C hawk bob what’s the scuttlebutt there in Kentucky ?

Officially nada about the bruises other than his flat denial that there is anything wrong. As for Amy pulling off the upset I'd say it's seen as a longshot.

[Aseahawkfan]

It's like anything else: You fear most what you know least. When I was in high school, even the science of psychology taught that homosexuality was a mental disorder and considered it deviant behavior. All I thought of them was that they were a bunch of drug addicts that hung out in downtown areas of large cities like Seattle, Spokane, and Portland. I never personally knew an individual that was openly homosexual, male or female, until I was out of college and in my 20's.

I had a similar fear of Hispanics. I grew up with a number of them in Walla Walla and they were all really great guys/gals, but they were native born, without a hint of an accent, and never spoke in Spanish. The college I went to, what is now EWU, was over 90% white with most of the rest being Native Americans or blacks and hardly any Hispanics, so when I took my first job out of college, a supervisor in a food processing plant, I was very intimidated by so many people speaking in Spanish until I was literally forced to deal with them. I discovered that my fears were completely unfounded. As a result, it doesn't bother me in the least when I hear people talking in a foreign language.

I don't think people intermingle enough, particularity those folks in rural and semi rural parts of our country. They grow up with the same conditioning that I grew up with, not having experienced other relationships from other cultures and ways of life. That was the same curse that haunted my dad, born in 1925, grew up in a nearly all white small town, and joined a military that was rigidly segregated. He never had a lot of contact with blacks, so quite naturally, he subscribed to the stereotypes he was taught.

One of things not much discussed is not allowing people to get to know each other is a tactic power groups used to keep the group they're using to oppress the other group from feeling empathy or developing friendships as you can't oppress or enslave groups that socialized and develop friendships with each other. So it's good you get to know people. It's important so that you can't be manipulated into hating the other group on some arbitrary basis which is usually some power group leaders pushing some agenda of theirs that isn't in general good for the overall human population.

I never listen to anyone trying to tell me bad things about other people. Other nations governments I am concerned with as those are competing power groups using similar tactics to motivate their people against another group. So it is best to never allow yourself to be pushed against another group of humans in a negative way. When I speak of Democrats as an example, I don't mean the average person wandering around calling themselves a Democrat, I'm talking about Democratic leadership pushing these agendas driven by leftist academics who push half-baked theories to sow division and create conflict to push some agenda, often by business leaders that are making money on these new ideas and policies. You have be wide awake for this garbage or you can get sucked in.

The attacks on the meat industry are a current example of this being pushed by the vegetarian/vegan movement who are making huge money coming up with meat alternatives and pushing the vegetarian/vegan lifestyle. Their health and environmental information is not the most sound and should be viewed with a grain of salt.

[Aseahawkfan]

The three things you notice most moving to Kentucky from out west (specifically Colorado, but but also Utah, Washington and California) are:

1- little bitty roads and great big ditches. These people wouldn't know what a shoulder, a curb and sidewalk or a bike lane was. Of course in city limits you might see some curbs and gutter and a storm drainage system, but not in the rural areas or even the suburbs! Yet they all drive great big trucks (not judging, I do too).

2- How nice the people you meet are! I'm serious, I was struck by how friendly and smiling and welcoming people are! At least to people that look like them ... which brings me to:

3- The very strong racist undercurrent here. I was shocked when in the first "sports bar" (1 little TV behind the bar) I went to to catch a NASCAR race to there was this straight out of the Dukes of Hazzard Boss Hog type greasy old white haired guy with an over made up blond on his elbow on this racist rant about how n*****s are ruining baseball now too (I guess they already ruined football and basketball) very loudly as though he we talking to all 8 or 9 people in the bar. I asked the bartender (a sweetheart of a gal, pretty too) if that was normal and she just said "oh it is for him sweetie". As I was leaving he asked me very loudly what my hurry was and I told to find a place that I didn't have to listen to him.

But it's not just individuals like that, even at work or in any social setting people that consider themselves too classy to use the N word still refer to them as "the blacks" and speak of them as almost a different species, even when there is no animosity. While I was home hunting I got a ridiculous amount of advice base on "oh that's a back neighborhood" or "they're really bad there".

You learn to expect it but I will say that everybody that knows me knows not to use that kind of language around me (and especially my wife, she'll jump a random stranger's sh!t in Walmart for using the N word!) or at my plant. I'm kinda the company liberal yankee ...

I will say it's not fair to talk about Kentucky without mentioning how beautiful it is in spring summer and fall (winters suck, but winter was on a weekend last year)! Overall I'm pretty happy here.

One of the traits of humanity that always surprises me is how nice people can be, while at the same harboring these strange ideas of race or nationality. I've seen that in quite a few racists and prejudice people where if you are friends with them or are their "kind", they are as nice as can be, good neighbors, helpful, and decent people. But they see people of some other ethnic group or "racial" group, suddenly they are talking like some criminal just came into the area and acting wary. It's hard to stomach the way people see each other at times. If they took the time to get to know each other, the world would not have so many of the problems it does.

Lots of good folk in the Southern States. But they gotta get that poison of racism out of their system at some point.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm starting to think Mitch or at least a portion of Republicans want to see DJT lose more than some Democrats. Mitch is holding up that stimulus when he knows a strong stimulus package would help DJT in the election. I wonder if he grins at Trump like he did in that debate thinking, "I can't wait for you to fall you jackass." Something is not good between Trump and McConnell.

[RiverDog]

One of the traits of humanity that always surprises me is how nice people can be, while at the same harboring these strange ideas of race or nationality. I've seen that in quite a few racists and prejudice people where if you are friends with them or are their "kind", they are as nice as can be, good neighbors, helpful, and decent people. But they see people of some other ethnic group or "racial" group, suddenly they are talking like some criminal just came into the area and acting wary. It's hard to stomach the way people see each other at times. If they took the time to get to know each other, the world would not have so many of the problems it does.

Truth. We have a very good friend, our back door neighbor, that is as considerate and caring, very religious, would give you the shirt off her back type of person. But she has such an awful mean streak, blames illegals for everything from AIDS to the budget deficit and will rail on Mexicans even though she knows that my daughter, of whom she adores, is half Hispanic. How anyone can claim to be a God fearing person yet show so much disrespect for their fellow human beings is beyond my comprehension. And, of course, she thinks that Donald Trump walks on water.

Lots of good folk in the Southern States. But they gotta get that poison of racism out of their system at some point.

They will eventually. Just go back and read Mack's comments. Each succeeding generation will have more and more of those traits washed out of their DNA.

[Hawktawk]

I'm starting to think Mitch or at least a portion of Republicans want to see DJT lose more than some Democrats. Mitch is holding up that stimulus when he knows a strong stimulus package would help DJT in the election. I wonder if he grins at Trump like he did in that debate thinking, "I can't wait for you to fall you jackass." Something is not good between Trump and McConnell.

I've heard McConnel doesn't have the votes from vulnerable senators and he's trying to protect them rather than the president,also not give Dem Senators anything to take home to their districts

McConnel said today after the ACB confirmation words to the effect "sometime after the election they will likely reverse everything we did but they won't be able to do anything about this for quite a while" Sounds like an admission of defeat in a few days maybe lose every branch to me?

[Aseahawkfan]

This is from MItch McConnels's wiki page. Sounds like Mitch is doing his job as a Republican Senate leader, but it does not sound like he likes Trump much at all. I think he is holding up stimulus on purpose to get rid of Trump. I think more than a few Republicans are doing this including Romney. It's a way to revolt, while not publically doing so. In the modern era, you have to be careful how you take out a president popular with Republicans. I know a lot of powerful Republicans like Romney, likely McConnel, the Bush Family, Paul Ryan, Colin Powell, and quite a few others. Most don't publically do much given Trump's popularity within the party, but privately I would get money they want to see this guy fall. This is Senate Republicans private little way of helping usher his sorry ass out.

Relationship with Trump administration
McConnell initially endorsed fellow Kentucky senator Rand Paul during the 2016 presidential campaign. Following Paul's withdrawal from the race in February 2016, McConnell endorsed presumptive nominee Donald Trump on February 4, 2016.[114] However, McConnell disagreed with Trump on multiple subsequent occasions. In May 2016, after Trump suggested that federal judge Gonzalo P. Curiel was biased against Trump because of his Mexican heritage, McConnell responded, "I don't agree with what he (Trump) had to say. This is a man who was born in Indiana. All of us came here from somewhere else." In July 2016, after Trump had criticized the parents of Capt. Humayun Khan, a Muslim-American soldier who was killed in Iraq, McConnell stated, "All Americans should value the patriotic service of the patriots who volunteer to selflessly defend us in the armed services." On October 7, 2016, following the Donald Trump Access Hollywood controversy, McConnell stated: "As the father of three daughters, I strongly believe that Trump needs to apologize directly to women and girls everywhere, and take full responsibility for the utter lack of respect for women shown in his comments on that tape."[115] In private, McConnell reportedly expresses disdain for Trump[116] and "abhors" his behavior.[117]

In October 2017, White House chief strategist Stephen Bannon and other Trump allies blamed McConnell for stalling the Trump administration's legislation. In response, McConnell cited the confirmation of Neil Gorsuch to the Supreme Court to show that the Senate was supportive of Trump's agenda.[118]

On November 5, 2019, as the House of Representatives began public hearings on the impeachment of President Trump, McConnell stated "I will say I'm pretty sure how [an impeachment trial is] likely to end. (...) If it were today, I don't think there's any question―it would not lead to” the removal of President Trump from office.[119]

On December 14, 2019, McConnell met with White House counsel Pat Cipollone and White House legislative affairs director Eric Ueland. Later that day, McConnell declared that for Trump's impeachment trial, he would be in "total coordination with the White House counsel's office" and Trump's representatives.[74][120] He also declared that there was "no chance" that the Senate would convict Trump and remove him from office.[121]

On December 17, 2019, McConnell rejected a request to call four witnesses for Trump's impeachment trial, because according to McConnell, the Senate's role was to "act as judge and jury", not investigate. Later that day, McConnell told the media: "I'm not an impartial juror [in this impeachment trial]. This is a political process. There's not anything judicial about it."[122][123]

After Trump’s acquittal, McConnell was noted for his ability to block witnesses, to secure Trump’s acquittal, and to maintain party unity during the impeachment process. Commentators noted that McConnell had kept Republican senators “marching in lockstep” throughout the process.[124][125][126]

Coronavirus response
In response to the COVID-19 pandemic, McConnell initially opposed the Families First Coronavirus Response Act, calling it a Democratic "ideological wish list".[127][128] He subsequently reversed his position when Trump endorsed the proposed package.[129] The bill passed in the Senate by a vote of 90–8.

McConnell also directed Senate Republicans in negotiations for two other coronavirus response packages: the Coronavirus Preparedness and Response Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2020, and the CARES Act. The CARES Act was the largest economic stimulus package in U.S. history,[130] amounting to 10% of total U.S. gross domestic product.[131] It passed both houses of Congress with bipartisan support.

Speaking on the Hugh Hewitt radio show on April 22, 2020, McConnell suggested that states should be able to declare bankruptcy instead of receiving additional coronavirus aid funds – funds which he implied would be used to save insolvent state pension funds, instead of coronavirus relief as intended. His comments were met with sharp criticism from various state and local officials. States currently cannot declare bankruptcy.[132]

After the passage of the CARES Act, McConnell waited several months before advancing any additional coronavirus relief measures in the Senate, saying in May that "I don't think we have yet felt the urgency of acting immediately," and stating that Congress should "[hit] pause" to evaluate how the allocated funds were working before approving more.[133] In negotiations between congressional Democrats and White House officials for an additional aid package, McConnell was absent from the talks.[134][135][136]

On September 10, a pared down coronavirus relief bill crafted by McConnell failed to advance the Senate past a Democratic filibuster.[137] Democrats panned the bill as "completely inadequate" given the scope of the crisis brought on by the coronavirus[138] – and as a partisan maneuver to help Republican senators up for reelection.[139] McConnell called the bill a choice between "do[ing] something" and "do[ing] nothing",[140] and said he was holding the procedural vote to get lawmakers on the record about their willingness to compromise on coronavirus legislation.[141]

In October, McConnell revealed he has actively avoided the White House since early August over concerns the Trump administration is not taking enough precautions against COVID-19. He stated “I personally didn’t feel that they were approaching protection from this illness in the same way that I thought was appropriate for the Senate, and the Senate has been operating in a way that I think has largely prevented contraction of this disease.” At the time of his remarks, three GOP senators had recently tested positive, as had numerous White House employees and residents, including President Trump. McConnell has advocated mask wearing and social distancing, although neither are required in the Senate.[142]

[Hawktawk]

Thanks for that. I detest McConnell although ideologically I would agree more than disagree. He's very smart and knows what he wants .He's like a lot of other politicians on both sides who will suck up to satan if he's popular then say they never supported half his agenda when he's cratering and the primary is over. Sasse is another one. Nauseating. I was hoping he'd be a man but he disappeared until the general now he's leaking disparaging phone calls he made to constituents bashing trump.Nikki Hayley who left the administration disgusted with trump gave a rousing speech at his convention strictly to protect her viability for 24. Tim Scott black R senator from the south was the same reason IMO.Lindsey graham is maybe the sleaziest politician in history. Trump has something on him like he did Falwell Jr.

I like they guys in the lincoln project who said screw our career, screw our party this time around.They have donated far more money to the Lincoln project than Trump has his own reelection. I like guys like Jeff Flake and Bob Corker who retired rather than follow this man.Corker called the oval office an "adult day care" weeks into the administration. Flake famously said if the vote to impeach had been secret 35 republican senators would have been on board. I believe a guy like Flake with enough integrity to say I can't follow this and end their career when he made that statement.So think about that. 35 guys sit there silent knowing in their hearts he should be removed.How do you look in the mirror?

I loved that Bill Bryant ran for WA Gov in 2016 as an anti trump republican and outperformed him by 200K in the state. He's my kind of republican but he had no shot in 16 with the top of the ticket and even less this time. But Id support that guy in any race he runs in.

Its just total sleaze these politicians with no moral grounding whatsoever, just winning.Its not just republicans either. I've so had it with that old hag Pelosi, Schumer etc. GTFO.I despise Inslee. We are a nation in decay IMO and its our politicians making it that way.

[idhawkman]

I hope you all go back and see how the FBI works in conjunction with our media sources to plant stories and direct a reaction from the public. This is a small sample of the tradecraft that the intelligence community has turned on the American people.

This whole scheme was hatched incubated and deployed on (granted not so bright) Americans by our FBI. I can tell you most "terrorist plots" that the FBI thwarts follow the same pattern.

Note: buzzfeed is no right wing paper as they were the first to publish the Trump fake Russian dossier.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kenbensinger/michigan-kidnapping-gretchen-whitmer-fbi-informant

If you need more links to the story just google FBI informant Michigan and you'll see many links about the story. The question you might ask is why haven't your news outlets covered this aspect for you as vigorously as they did the planted story? Lol. Shep smith

[RiverDog]

I hope you all go back and see how the FBI works in conjunction with our media sources to plant stories and direct a reaction from the public. This is a small sample of the tradecraft that the intelligence community has turned on the American people.

This whole scheme was hatched incubated and deployed on (granted not so bright) Americans by our FBI. I can tell you most "terrorist plots" that the FBI thwarts follow the same pattern.

Note: buzzfeed is no right wing paper as they were the first to publish the Trump fake Russian dossier.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kenbensinger/michigan-kidnapping-gretchen-whitmer-fbi-informant

If you need more links to the story just google FBI informant Michigan and you'll see many links about the story. The question you might ask is why haven't your news outlets covered this aspect for you as vigorously as they did the planted story? Lol. Shep smith

Wow, an Idahawkman siting! Good to see you again!

I'll check out your story if you promise to stick around for more than just a cup of coffee. And to respond to your last sentence in advance, I've always said that the bias in the major news networks isn't that the stories they cover are false or misleading...in general, they all have at least some truth to them, it's the stories that they choose NOT to cover, those that don't fit their narrative they'll just ignore, and Fox is just as guilty of that, if not more, as the evil "MSM". They tend to show stories that their audience wants to see in order to advance their ratings.

[RiverDog]

OK, I got through reading the entire article. It took me three sittings, but I read the entire thing.

I found the story to be very believable, but whether or not it happened just as the authors claim it did is anybody's guess. If it were true, it would not be a shock to me as I fully realize that the FBI has utilized under cover agents for decades and that there's a fine line between simply being an informant and facilitating a crime that might not have ever happened if not for their involvement. Here's a couple of comments:

If the FBI did entrap one or more of the individuals currently awaiting trial on conspiracy charges, I don't have a lot of sympathy for them. There's an old saying that applies here: If you are going to sleep with the dogs, don't be surprised if you wake up with fleas. It's pretty obvious that many of those folks were talking about some really serious, dangerous things. If there were truly innocents amongst that group that had no intention of following through with what they described as loose talk, then they should have gotten out immediately when they first started hearing how some of those guys were talking. It was one of the first lessons taught to me by my dad when a friend of mine got caught burglarizing a store. Even though I was not involved, the old man insisted that I quit hanging out with him.

The other thing is that it would have been extremely difficult for the central character in that story, "Dan", to maintain his cover if he didn't participate in the planning of the kidnapping plot. It wouldn't have taken the others long to catch on that something might be up if all "Dan" did was sit around and take notes. Being active in the planning and training made him seem much less likely to be a plant.

As far as the FBI's tactics go, it's one of those ends justifies the means types of things. Would the plot have happened had the FBI not intervened? Maybe, maybe not. But the consequences that would have resulted had the plot been carried out are too grave for them to play things by Hoyle. In a case like this one, the object is NOT to gather enough evidence and have it stand up in court in order to convict the plotters of conspiracy. The objective is to stop the plot from being carried out, and that's exactly what happened. There was no kidnapping of the Governor, so the FBI won.

Why we haven't heard about it through the major media? It's an independent investigation by two writers that by their own admission are putting two and two together: This account is based on an analysis of court filings, transcripts, exhibits, audio recordings, and other documents, as well as interviews with more than two dozen people with direct knowledge of the case, including several who were present at meetings and training sessions where prosecutors say the plot was hatched. Nothing has been corroborated and no direct quotes were given that can be used to authentic the account. The major media outlets usually steers clear of such stories until they can be corroborated. It was published less than 3 weeks ago and there's an ongoing investigation. There's undoubtedly folks out there with knowledge of the case that are under court order not to talk about it. I'd give it a little more time before we jump to the conclusion that the MSM is burying the story. If it's true, it will come out at trial and you'll have your story.

[Aseahawkfan]

OK, I got through reading the entire article. It took me three sittings, but I read the entire thing.

I found the story to be very believable, but whether or not it happened just as the authors claim it did is anybody's guess. If it were true, it would not be a shock to me as I fully realize that the FBI has utilized under cover agents for decades and that there's a fine line between simply being an informant and facilitating a crime that might not have ever happened if not for their involvement. Here's a couple of comments:

If the FBI did entrap one or more of the individuals currently awaiting trial on conspiracy charges, I don't have a lot of sympathy for them. There's an old saying that applies here: If you are going to sleep with the dogs, don't be surprised if you wake up with fleas. It's pretty obvious that many of those folks were talking about some really serious, dangerous things. If there were truly innocents amongst that group that had no intention of following through with what they described as loose talk, then they should have gotten out immediately when they first started hearing how some of those guys were talking. It was one of the first lessons taught to me by my dad when a friend of mine got caught burglarizing a store. Even though I was not involved, the old man insisted that I quit hanging out with him.

The other thing is that it would have been extremely difficult for the central character in that story, "Dan", to maintain his cover if he didn't participate in the planning of the kidnapping plot. It wouldn't have taken the others long to catch on that something might be up if all "Dan" did was sit around and take notes. Being active in the planning and training made him seem much less likely to be a plant.

As far as the FBI's tactics go, it's one of those ends justifies the means types of things. Would the plot have happened had the FBI not intervened? Maybe, maybe not. But the consequences that would have resulted had the plot been carried out are too grave for them to play things by Hoyle. In a case like this one, the object is NOT to gather enough evidence and have it stand up in court in order to convict the plotters of conspiracy. The objective is to stop the plot from being carried out, and that's exactly what happened. There was no kidnapping of the Governor, so the FBI won.

Why we haven't heard about it through the major media? It's an independent investigation by two writers that by their own admission are putting two and two together: This account is based on an analysis of court filings, transcripts, exhibits, audio recordings, and other documents, as well as interviews with more than two dozen people with direct knowledge of the case, including several who were present at meetings and training sessions where prosecutors say the plot was hatched. Nothing has been corroborated and no direct quotes were given that can be used to authentic the account. The major media outlets usually steers clear of such stories until they can be corroborated. It was published less than 3 weeks ago and there's an ongoing investigation. There's undoubtedly folks out there with knowledge of the case that are under court order not to talk about it. I'd give it a little more time before we jump to the conclusion that the MSM is burying the story. If it's true, it will come out at trial and you'll have your story.

This tactic by the F.B.I. is well known and was used during the breaking up of the militias after the OKC bombing as well. You won't hear about this through the media because neither of the big outlets including Fox News has much of a gain from vilifying law enforcement for taking down loonies.