Plot to kidnap Whitmer

[c_hawkbob]

I can't believe this has gone unnoticed here. A dozen men arrested for plotting to kidnap and try a sitting goernor and othe govenment officials: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 923650002/

More of the Idiot in Chief's "fine people" thinking they're acting on orders:

[Aseahawkfan]

Some people are tripping.

[I-5]

Tripping or not, they are not 'armed militia' as some want to call them...they are simply terrorists, to use the correct word. According to the FBI, right wing extremists are the biggest terrorist thread within the US by any measure, and it's not even close.

Of course, Trump sides with the 13 men. Why would we expect anything else from our 'Law & Order' president?

[Aseahawkfan]

Tripping or not, they are not 'armed militia' as some want to call them...they are simply terrorists, to use the correct word. According to the FBI, right wing extremists are the biggest terrorist thread within the US by any measure, and it's not even close.

Of course, Trump sides with the 13 men. Why would we expect anything else from our 'Law & Order' president?

We all know how this works. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. You get to decide which is which based on what side you're on and who holds the power.

I still see this as a one off from a splinter group. Until I see far more people taking up arms, I don't see a Civil War coming. Just a whole lot of stupid evil on a smaller scale like this by people fighting for causes that make no sense without sound justification. We are in an era of mob rule and general chaos.

The left wing media wasn't showing much outrage when people obviously buying into the left wing propaganda machine with BLM were shooting cops. The right wing was calling them terrorists too.

And crickets from the left.

[I-5]

You get to decide which is which based on what side you're on and who holds the power.

If it was a Civil War coming, how would you know what that would look like? Would it be a full blown army coming over the hill to engage...antifa? Or would it be little incidents like this?

If we go by your broad definition that it's in the eye of the beholder, then that means protestors, rioters, what have you...can be called freedom fighers. I don't think I've heard that label here before.

Regardless of our differing opinions, the Dept of Homeland Security has no doubt or hesitation defining who the biggest terrorist threat to the US is, and that's even coming from Trump's appointment, Chad Wolf: “As Secretary, I am concerned about any form of violent extremism. However, I am particularly concerned about white supremacist violent extremists who have been exceptionally lethal in their abhorrent, targeted attacks in recent years.”

https://whdh.com/news/white-supremacists-remain-deadliest-us-terror-threat-homeland-security-report-says/

[Aseahawkfan]

If it was a Civil War coming, how would you know what that would look like? Would it be a full blown army coming over the hill to engage...antifa? Or would it be little incidents like this?

If we go by your broad definition that it's in the eye of the beholder, then that means protestors, rioters, what have you...can be called freedom fighers. I don't think I've heard that label here before.

Regardless of our differing opinions, the Dept of Homeland Security has no doubt or hesitation defining who the biggest terrorist threat to the US is, and that's even coming from Trump's appointment, Chad Wolf: “As Secretary, I am concerned about any form of violent extremism. However, I am particularly concerned about white supremacist violent extremists who have been exceptionally lethal in their abhorrent, targeted attacks in recent years.”

https://whdh.com/news/white-supremacists-remain-deadliest-us-terror-threat-homeland-security-report-says/

You've never heard the term freedom fighters? That's what the terrorists in Afghanistan call themselves. Taliban means student and Mujadeen means spiritual warrior. When we were using them for our purposes against Russia in Afghanistan, we called them freedom fighters. When they turned against us, we called them terrorists. Just like with Saddam Hussein and many others. Do you really not read American history? I find your lack of awareness of our history disturbing. It seems like you rely almost solely on news sources from current left leaning sources for your opinion and viewpoint absent any real historical depth or truth.

What would it look like? It would look like a large group (5 to 10% equating to roughly 16 to 32 million) of Americans united on a single issue arming up to go against the government and secession like the previous Civil War. This is more like post-Oklahoma city bombing situation where a bunch of small, looney militias are going to get hammered by the F.B.I.

I would love a statistical breakdown of where most of the violence comes from without regard for politics. I want to see that. I want to see the real numbers of crimes committed by "White Supremacists" comparatively to Street Gangs, Drug Cartels, and the like. My feeling is that the right downplays threats by crazy white gangs and the left downplays threats by organizations with large minority membership to serve their political purposes.

I hope for the day when these scumbag politicians can provide information absent all the partisan crap, so we can get a real idea of what's going on. I wish we could trust the government, but I don't. I don't trust them much at all. I haven't in some time.

I never once saw you criticize the shooting of police by people obviously reacting to leftist propaganda and protests. You choose to willfully ignore those folks of the results of leftist propaganda pushing the police as racist enemies of folks of African descent. You're ok with that apparently or completely divorce the idea from the leftist propaganda that drives that behavior.

Crickets on those shootings, murders, and attacks.

[I-5]

You are hilarious. I ask why not apply the freedom fighter label to protestors, and you take that to mean I’ve never heard of the term? I was talking about never hearing a righteous label like that attached to protestors.

I would never defend violence from any group, left or right. Which specific cop shootings by BLM are you talking about? I just haven’t heard of specific incidents. What have I missed? If so, I definitely condemn it.

[RiverDog]

I can't believe this has gone unnoticed here. A dozen men arrested for plotting to kidnap and try a sitting goernor and othe govenment officials: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nat ... 923650002/

More of the Idiot in Chief's "fine people" thinking they're acting on orders:

The story just broke yesterday, so I'm not sure why it's such a shock that it wasn't immediately mentioned in a relatively light trafficked forum.

I'm obviously glad they caught them and it will be interesting to see what comes out at their trial, and yes, it's an outrage, but not at all a surprise, that our POTUS is giving these folks his blessing. Thankfully we're well on our way to having a national enema come November 3rd.

This is just one more disturbing event in what has been a very ugly, ugly year.

[c_hawkbob]

It was Shep Smith's lead story last night, as well my local news.

[RiverDog]

It was Shep Smith's lead story last night, as well my local news.

Sorry, Cbob. I was editing my remarks when you replied.

I did see the story but for some reason, I thought it broke earlier than it did.

[NorthHawk]

I noted it in the Kamala vs Pence thread.
These guys are terrorists and you can't sugar coat it. Any time a group wants to take a democratically
elected public official and execute them, by definition it's domestic terrorism.

[c_hawkbob]

I noted it in the Kamala vs Pence thread.
These guys are terrorists and you can't sugar coat it. Any time a group wants to take a democratically
elected public official and execute them, by definition it's domestic terrorism.

And I even responded to it ... sorry about that (it sucks getting old)

[RiverDog]

And I even responded to it ... sorry about that (it sucks getting old)

It's better than the alternative!

[c_hawkbob]

And I even responded to it ... sorry about that (it sucks getting old)

It's better than the alternative!

Absolutely true!

[I-5]

I noted it in the Kamala vs Pence thread.
These guys are terrorists and you can't sugar coat it. Any time a group wants to take a democratically
elected public official and execute them, by definition it's domestic terrorism.

Yep it is, Northhawk. It doesn't matter who is doing it, it is terrorism and it's scary.

[RiverDog]

I noted it in the Kamala vs Pence thread.
These guys are terrorists and you can't sugar coat it. Any time a group wants to take a democratically
elected public official and execute them, by definition it's domestic terrorism.

Yep it is, Northhawk. It doesn't matter who is doing it, it is terrorism and it's scary.

It's scary, but no more so than the 100 or so days of riots in Portland, CHAZ in Seattle, etc. The whole frigging year has been scary.

[c_hawkbob]

Yep it is, Northhawk. It doesn't matter who is doing it, it is terrorism and it's scary.

It's scary, but no more so than the 100 or so days of riots in Portland, CHAZ in Seattle, etc. The whole frigging year has been scary.

Not even close IMO. I've lived through much worse "race riots" and they didn't scare me nearly as much assassinations or even attempted assassinations.

Riots, if they are organic and not set into effect by bad actors on the other side (as many of these have been) are disorganized and unpredictable but unless idiots with gun get to go in hunting in the middle of them, are usually confined to property damage for the most part. Assassinations are much more both intentional and deadly, and almost always target important influential people.

And don't bother with all the numbers you're about to throw at me refuting my position, just trust that I have given that aspect due consideration and my opinion remains that assassinations are scarier.

[RiverDog]

Yep it is, Northhawk. It doesn't matter who is doing it, it is terrorism and it's scary.

It's scary, but no more so than the 100 or so days of riots in Portland, CHAZ in Seattle, etc. The whole frigging year has been scary.

Not even close IMO. I've lived through much worse "race riots" and they didn't scare me nearly as much assassinations or even attempted assassinations.

Riots, if they are organic and not set into effect by bad actors on the other side (as many of these have been) are disorganized and unpredictable but unless idiots with gun get to go in hunting in the middle of them, are usually confined to property damage for the most part. Assassinations are much more both intentional and deadly, and almost always target important influential people.

And don't bother with all the numbers you're about to throw at me refuting my position, just trust that I have given that aspect due consideration and my opinion remains that assassinations are scarier.

I agree, but I wasn't trying to compare this year with earlier times, like the 60's. All I said is that "the whole frigging year has been scary", and it has been.

[c_hawkbob]

And with that I agree. I guess I misread your post. This year has been a doozie. Let's hope it's a one off.

[I-5]

Sorry riv, I wasn’t intending my comment towards you at all - just a general comment that there can be no excusing that incident as anything but terrorism.

[RiverDog]

Sorry riv, I wasn’t intending my comment towards you at all - just a general comment that there can be no excusing that incident as anything but terrorism.

No need to apologize. I agree with you, that sort of stuff scares the crap out of me, too, and yes, it's terrorism. I just wanted to highlight how it's par for the course the way 2020 has been going.

I'm staying up late, or at least late for me, on Nov. 3rd. I plan on celebrating more on that evening than on New Year's Eve and the 4th of July combined.

[Aseahawkfan]

You are hilarious. I ask why not apply the freedom fighter label to protestors, and you take that to mean I’ve never heard of the term? I was talking about never hearing a righteous label like that attached to protestors.

I would never defend violence from any group, left or right. Which specific cop shootings by BLM are you talking about? I just haven’t heard of specific incidents. What have I missed? If so, I definitely condemn it.

It's because you post some story from an obvious left leaning source and don't seem to notice the left wing press never much reports gang killings like MS-13, the cartels at the border with the drug trafficking, the cops who have been shot due to the press and left's pushing this issue as a racist issue basically making the police into the KKK, and the like.

The left pushes as much division as the right. Both sides thrive on division and conflict. They both push lies or narrowband news that supports their followers view of the issues absent much reasoning. Just a bunch of talking heads pushing an agenda.

I don't understand why more Americans aren't tired of having this level of divisiveness, vilification, and the like on American society. It's not solving problems, it's creating more problems as they react to each other and go and back forth on the stupid.

I have to listen to right wingers right now believing this horsecrap about voting by mail leading to massive fraud because they read a few stories, the government is trying to take their religion and guns, and the white man is hated.

Then I have to listen to the left wing garbage about ever white person is racist because of our past, white privilege garbage for what is termed regular life, the wealth gap pushing socialist economics as though the no wealth of real socialism is preferable, and all cops are racist and must are briefed by the KKK before they go out to do their jobs.

I keep wondering how did we become the most powerful country in the world if our people are this dumb? I can only surmise that the politicians are more intelligent then they seem and the manipulation of the masses is done because they realize how dumb the average American is and thus treat them accordingly, while ensuring the behind the scenes government runs well enough. What Riverdog calls the people in the smoke-filled rooms.

[Aseahawkfan]

This year sucks. It is made worse by having this terrible idiot leader who doesn't have an off button when it comes to being an argumentative, egotistical ass. And both sides are so divided that one side is supporting this ass just because they hate the other side so much and view them as destroying the America they hold dear. When if these two sides talked more, they would find they are not as far as off as they think they are. It's damn sad.

[I-5]

Sorry if you're having a bad day, but what story from a left leaning source did I post that you're talking about? I was quoting the Dept of Homeland Security saying that white supremacists posed the biggest domestic terrorist threat (and they have numbers to back it up). I asked you if you know a cop that was killed by someone from BLM or antifa, because I hadn't heard of any such thing, but I'd like to know. I've heard of plenty of looting and rioting (which is not good, and I don't condone it), but are you talking about murder?

This year sucks for everybody, no need to attack each other.

[RiverDog]

I keep wondering how did we become the most powerful country in the world if our people are this dumb? I can only surmise that the politicians are more intelligent then they seem and the manipulation of the masses is done because they realize how dumb the average American is and thus treat them accordingly, while ensuring the behind the scenes government runs well enough. What Riverdog calls the people in the smoke-filled rooms.

We're the only major country that was unscathed after two world wars, mainly because we had two oceans to protect us. With the rest of the world either rebuilding or still in 3rd world status, the vacuum it created allowed us to build a giant, self sufficient economy and maintain the most powerful military in the world and the resources to do things like build an interstate highway system and put a man on the moon. It didn't have a lot to do with our politicians or business leaders. It was the result of a combination of geography and happenstance. We're still living off that momentum created in the middle of the last century.

[c_hawkbob]

Sorry if you're having a bad day, but what story from a left leaning source did I post that you're talking about? I was quoting the Dept of Homeland Security saying that white supremacists posed the biggest domestic terrorist threat (and they have numbers to back it up). I asked you if you know a cop that was killed by someone from BLM or antifa, because I hadn't heard of any such thing, but I'd like to know. I've heard of plenty of looting and rioting (which is not good, and I don't condone it), but are you talking about murder?

This year sucks for everybody, no need to attack each other.

This whole 'left leaning source" and "liberal mainstream media" BS is just so drummed into conservative's skulls that they see it everywhere. The whole world was a liberal conspiracy until Rush Limbaugh started waking people up to it ... it's pure crap. Facts is facts just like they've always been. News outlets that vett their sources and check their facts are still viable no matter how hard the right has tried to discredit them.

[curmudgeon]

Question EVERYTHING......l

[I-5]

We're the only major country that was unscathed after two world wars, mainly because we had two oceans to protect us. With the rest of the world either rebuilding or still in 3rd world status, the vacuum it created allowed us to build a giant, self sufficient economy and maintain the most powerful military in the world and the resources to do things like build an interstate highway system and put a man on the moon. It didn't have a lot to do with our politicians or business leaders. It was the result of a combination of geography and happenstance. We're still living off that momentum created in the middle of the last century.

Interestingly, most of the progress you outlined above (and it is truly impressive) was initiated by Eisenhower during his two terms in office. He initiated both NASA (as a reaction to the sputnik programme) and the interstate highway system, while at the same time fighting the spread of communism around the world (example: threatening China with nuclear war if they attempted to invade Taiwan, which forced China to retreat). He did also make mistakes like initiating planning of the Bay of Pigs invasion on Cuba and various regime changes in S America, but all in all, he did more good than bad. At home, he helped end the influence of Joseph McCarthy with a series of executive orders, and was against the idea of deficit spending to build a huge military complex. In hindsight, at least to me, Ike is one of if not the most important presidents of the century, as the postwar years is where the US pulled away from the pack in many ways. I think he deserves credit for a lot of the success we’ve had, along with the american people themselves.

[RiverDog]

Interestingly, most of the progress you outlined above (and it is truly impressive) was initiated by Eisenhower during his two terms in office. He initiated both NASA (as a reaction to the sputnik programme) and the interstate highway system, while at the same time fighting the spread of communism around the world (example: threatening China with nuclear war if they attempted to invade Taiwan, which forced China to retreat). He did also make mistakes like initiating planning of the Bay of Pigs invasion on Cuba and various regime changes in S America, but all in all, he did more good than bad. At home, he helped end the influence of Joseph McCarthy with a series of executive orders, and was against the idea of deficit spending to build a huge military complex. In hindsight, at least to me, Ike is one of if not the most important presidents of the century, as the postwar years is where the US pulled away from the pack in many ways. I think he deserves credit for a lot of the success we’ve had, along with the american people themselves.

Ike was by far the most fiscally conservative POTUS since the end of WW2. About the only spending program that he was personally responsible for was the interstate highway system, and that was only due to his experience in the army. He was against the massive build-up of nuclear arms, with everyone in his cabinet lining up against him except for his treasury secretary. He was against an aggressive space program, being forced into it as a response to Sputnik. He felt that efforts to put a man on the moon was an obscene waste of money. He had a mixed record on civil rights, signed two civil rights bills and was personally opposed to segregation but felt it should be handled by the states, thus insuring the continuance of Jim Crow laws for another decade.

I agree that a lot of credit for our position in the post war world can be given to Ike, but he didn't take many initiatives of his own and was mostly along for the ride. He was more of a ground smoother as opposed to a ground shaker like LBJ.

[I-5]

I think you’re underselling Ike just a tiny bit but ok. A president can just as easily not go along with his advisors (ex: Trump). I think with the exception of NASA, he took initiative and applied his skill as a great administrator, which is something we all wish we had now.

[RiverDog]

I think you’re underselling Ike just a tiny bit but ok. A president can just as easily not go along with his advisors (ex: Trump). I think with the exception of NASA, he took initiative and applied his skill as a great administrator, which is something we all wish we had now.

I've read quite a bit about Eisenhower, even visited his childhood home and Presidential library. Not that it's a bad characteristic to have, especially during that period of time, but he really wasn't an activist President. He didn't undertake very many initiatives.

One of the more amusing things I read about Ike was during WW2 when he had his son John, who had just received his commission, transferred to Europe to serve on his staff so he could spend some time with him. As the two were riding in the back seat of a jeep, John asked his dad about saluting etiquette....who should salute who and when...if they were to encounter an officer that was senior to him but junior to the old man, to which Ike replied "Son, every officer in this entire theatre is senior to you and junior to me".

[c_hawkbob]

Didn't really answer his question though.

The answer would be: "Son, you salute them, they salute me and everybody holds there salute until I salute back to them".

[Aseahawkfan]

Sorry if you're having a bad day, but what story from a left leaning source did I post that you're talking about? I was quoting the Dept of Homeland Security saying that white supremacists posed the biggest domestic terrorist threat (and they have numbers to back it up). I asked you if you know a cop that was killed by someone from BLM or antifa, because I hadn't heard of any such thing, but I'd like to know. I've heard of plenty of looting and rioting (which is not good, and I don't condone it), but are you talking about murder?

This year sucks for everybody, no need to attack each other.

No, what you posted was a quote from a story written by a liberal journalist taking a quote to frame a story a certain way. Did you take the time to read the actual report? I bet you did not. I bet you bought what that story was selling without reading the actual report that article was claiming to report on.

Sorry, you are trying to act like you are posting some unbiased story, but you didn't. You didn't bother to read the source material. You let yourself be led by the nose by the liberal media like you have done so often.

Read the entire report which details more threats and more actors in influencing our election.

If America is relying on folks like you to vote, then we are in trouble. You find an article that supports your belief ignoring the source material and posting it like it's unbiased. It isn't. You aren't.

Now you're framing yourself as wrongly under attack, when I am very right that you did not read the source material and do not care about truth.

[Aseahawkfan]

This whole 'left leaning source" and "liberal mainstream media" BS is just so drummed into conservative's skulls that they see it everywhere. The whole world was a liberal conspiracy until Rush Limbaugh started waking people up to it ... it's pure crap. Facts is facts just like they've always been. News outlets that vett their sources and check their facts are still viable no matter how hard the right has tried to discredit them.

The left's method to dismiss legitimate criticism of liberal propaganda. Oh you're just conservative. It'd drummed into your head.

I guess me calling out all the conservative lies means I'm a liberal, who supports liberalism. Just like when I support socialized medicine.

Sorry, c-bob, the left are as big a liars as the right. You pretending that is not the case is you buying into leftist propaganda.

So stop pretending at least a few of us aren't interested in the propaganda of either side. I know it's hard for you to accept, but some of us don't want either sides trash. You conveniently dismissing it as conservatives not buying into the media is engrained has nothing to do with it.

I have checked many conservatives on their sides lies. I have done the same in face to face conversation because they lie just as much and are equally stupid.
|
For example with I5's article. All I had to do was open the source material report to find the lies in the posted article. At least the left leaning source had the balls to post the actual Homeland Security Report link. Probably knew only a handful of viewers would read the actual report to see the article was slanted a certain agenda driven way.

Sorry, bud. But if believe the left wing media isn't dragging you around by your nose, then you're pretty ridiculous. I go deep on source material. Not this half-assed media reading with reporters and talking heads and agenda driven journalists dragging me around by nose like so many of you that post on here. Go read some source material, then you'll see how much garbage is posted that won't help Americans achieve a better life at all.

[RiverDog]

Didn't really answer his question though.

The answer would be: "Son, you salute them, they salute me and everybody holds there salute until I salute back to them".

That's if you could keep a straight face after he phrased it as "what if."

[I-5]

ok dude, here’s the source report from the DOHS, not a left leaning rag:

“2019 was the most lethal year for domestic violent extremism in the United States since the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. We are still evaluating data for incidents occurring in 2020. VEs perpetrated 16 attacks, killing 48, whereas HVEs conducted 5 attacks and killed 1 person. Among DVE actors, WSEs conducted half of all lethal attacks (8 of 16), resulting in the majority of deaths (39 of 48). All the DVE attackers had a dominant violent extremist ideology, with many motivated by multiple violent extremist ideologies or violent extremist ideologies unconnected to global violent extremist groups.”

(DVE=Domestic Violent Extremists, WSE=White Supremacist Extremists, HVE=Homegrown Violent Extremists)

Can I get you anything else?

[Aseahawkfan]

I took the time to read this report: https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/2020_10_06_homeland-threat-assessment.pdf

Once again proving that details matter. The report stating White Supremacist Organizations are the biggest terrorist threat is based on one large scale attack at Walmart in El Paso that killed 23 of the 38 killed by WSE (White Supremacy Extremists).

This is out of 16,425 total homicides including non-negligent manslaughter in 2019. So homicides by WSEs is 2.3 out of every 1000 homicides in the United States. Yet the article interprets this as a major threat to the United States.


According to the Chicago Sun Times, https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2019/12/30/21043526/chicago-homicides-murders-2019-decline

There were 491 homicides in Chicago alone in 2019.

315 as of Monday — were African American males between 15 and 40 years old. Forty-eight of 2019’s victims were Latino males between 16 and 40. African American women accounted for 43 homicide victims in 2019, ranging in age from 18 to 70.

So according to c-bob and I5 I have no reason to distrust the left wing media as a source of biased, propaganda driven media with a political agenda specifically interested in taking out Trump by any means necessary even if they are elevating minimal threats to higher than other threats that are causing much more damage in Democratic strongholds like Chicago, New York, and L.A.

The above is only the tip of the iceberg. Fact is that White Supremacists are a far lower threat than gang violence, cartel violence, domestic violence, drug-related crime, and even police killings. Yet during the Trump Era it has been elevated to this enormous threat by the Democrats and left wing with left wing supporters completely ignoring other more dangerous threats just to vilify Trump and push the Trump's making the white supremacist act up angle.

So tell me why I'm supposed to trust these news sources when the evidence is obvious that they are lying? That White Supremacist Organizations are often lone actors who are acting in an insane manner inflicting often short, focused bouts of violence whereas the other violent threats are wider spread, more insidious, and often downplayed by leftist news organizations and associations due to the left's particular agenda.

Why is it so hard for leftists to admit that are equally being manipulated by leftist media? Explain that? Why can't they dig deeper into the statistics, information, and see they are getting led along by the nose? How can they continue to accuse the right of being led around Fox News who delivers equally false information to support their agenda?

Why are Americans so damn willing to buy into ignorance and so unable to see past their personal biases to create a better nation? Why can't they look deeper and analyze statistics, data, and the like that is so readily available to easily rip apart these partisan articles?

Why is it so hard to accept that some people like me like to know what is going on based on source material rather than get led around by the nose by biased articles? Is that a bad trait or something? To want the truth? To want raw data? To want to know what is really going on? Why is that a bad way to be? I feel more Americans should be this way. More people period.

[Aseahawkfan]

ok dude, here’s the source report from the DOHS, not a left leaning rag:

“2019 was the most lethal year for domestic violent extremism in the United States since the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995. We are still evaluating data for incidents occurring in 2020. VEs perpetrated 16 attacks, killing 48, whereas HVEs conducted 5 attacks and killed 1 person. Among DVE actors, WSEs conducted half of all lethal attacks (8 of 16), resulting in the majority of deaths (39 of 48). All the DVE attackers had a dominant violent extremist ideology, with many motivated by multiple violent extremist ideologies or violent extremist ideologies unconnected to global violent extremist groups.”

(DVE=Domestic Violent Extremists, WSE=White Supremacist Extremists, HVE=Homegrown Violent Extremists)

Can I get you anything else?

Nope. Read it myself. Can I instruct you how to analyze data so you can realize that that level of violence makes WSEs one of the lowest threats in the United States? Can you analyze data in entirety or do you select only data that confirms your biases?

So explain to me how 39 or48 deaths in a year with 16000 homicides is a major threat? I'll wait for your breakdown.

Why don't you look up the homicide rate in every major city in the United States. That far exceeds the threat of WSEs. But in the era of Trump, hey let's believe the left wing media elevating threats while ignoring others so they can prey on people's political biases. Works real great?

According to F.B.I. there were more law-enforcement officers killed feloniously in 2019. https://ucr.fbi.gov/leoka/2019/topic-pages/officers-feloniously-killed But hey, it's WSEs causing the problem according to this article.

In 2019, 48 law enforcement officers died from injuries incurred in the line of duty during felonious incidents. (See Table 1.)

Like I said, you have some very particular biases. You're not as nuts as Hawktawk, but you definitely buy into almost anything the left is selling absent deeper analysis to see if it is true. The reality is people who align politically care very little about truth and more about finding information that supports their confirmation bias. It is tiresome to someone like me who has to listen to this trash from all sides of the political spectrum and get accused of bias by both sides for pointing out the truth.

Being able to read and analyze information and seeking the truth is somehow biased in modern America. A sad reality.

[I-5]

Nope. Read it myself. Can I instruct you how to analyze data so you can realize that that level of violence makes WSEs one of the lowest threats in the United States? Can you analyze data in entirety or do you select only data that confirms your biases?

You are seriously tiring. Never did I mention homicide. I'm strictly talking about terrorism and terrorism only, which is the topic of this thread (Plot to kidnap Whitmer). It's not arguing about homicides. I'm done going on your tangents.

[RiverDog]

Nope. Read it myself. Can I instruct you how to analyze data so you can realize that that level of violence makes WSEs one of the lowest threats in the United States? Can you analyze data in entirety or do you select only data that confirms your biases?

You are seriously tiring. Never did I mention homicide. I'm strictly talking about terrorism and terrorism only, which is the topic of this thread (Plot to kidnap Whitmer). It's not arguing about homicides. I'm done going on your tangents.

I understand and agree with what you're saying, that white supremacy groups, or "WSE's", are the single largest domestic terrorism threat in the US today. But I do think ASF has a point. When you say that domestic terrorism is 'scary', that suggests to me that you believe that it's a major threat to our lives and/or our livelihood. Unless you're seriously concerned about an attempted overthrow of a government being successful, the actual threat to our lives or way of life is really quite remote when compared to other activities.

In my view, the offshoot violence spurred by the mostly peaceful BLM movement over the past 5 months, in which both supporters and opponents of BLM have participated in, is much more concerning than a foiled attempt by a WSE group to kidnap a governor. Indeed, much of the WSE activity this summer, such as the fatal shooting in Portland of a Patriot Prayer demonstrator, is an unintended consequence directly related to the mostly peaceful movement.

I do feel that liberals and left leaning media, in general, has had a tendency to dismiss these consequences without assigning anything more than a casual association with the BLM demonstrations, rationalizing the criminal activity of looting and vandalism as one would rationalize collateral damage to non combatants and their property during a war. In their view, the mostly economic and property damage to private businesses and their employees ability to make a living has been well worth the larger, mostly intangible psychological benefit that BLM has achieved. No price is too great for someone else to pay.

The good news in all of this is that with the coming of winter, the near certainty of a Trump defeat next month, and the impending end of the pandemic by the beginning of next summer, there's a good chance that we've seen the peak of this God awful activity and hopefully we can get back to living our normal lives.