Plot to kidnap Whitmer

[I-5]

In my view, the offshoot violence spurred by the mostly peaceful BLM movement over the past 5 months, in which both supporters and opponents of BLM have participated in, is much more concerning than a foiled attempt by a WSE group to kidnap a governor.

I could not disagree with you more. And once more, I don’t condone nor justify any violence whatsoever from either side.

Would you feel any less or more threatened if it was a dozen people from BLM planning for months how to kidnap a governor and take over the capitol? I’ll be honest, that would worry me just as much as these guys doing it. It’s terrorism no matter who does it.

[RiverDog]

Would you feel any less or more threatened if it was a dozen people from BLM planning for months how to kidnap a governor and take over the capitol? I’ll be honest, that would worry me just as much as these guys doing it. It’s terrorism no matter who does it.

No, I would not, and I agree with you, it's terrorism no matter who does it, and I'll also toss in that it's worse than the concern over international terrorists entering our country that was the reason given for Trump's EO when he first took office.

But that wasn't my point. My point is that the rioting and looting was far more concerning in that it lasted all summer long, was much more widespread, and affected far more lives than a foiled plot to kidnap a governor that, thanks to the vigilance of the FBI and others, ended up not hurting a soul.

You gotta look at the glass half full part of this incident. This is proof that the government is on to those scumbags and are out there being proactive. This will make other wannabees think twice about conducting a similar initiative.

[Aseahawkfan]

No, I would not, and I agree with you, it's terrorism no matter who does it, and I'll also toss in that it's worse than the concern over international terrorists entering our country that was the reason given for Trump's EO when he first took office.

But that wasn't my point. My point is that the rioting and looting was far more concerning in that it lasted all summer long, was much more widespread, and affected far more lives than a foiled plot to kidnap a governor that, thanks to the vigilance of the FBI and others, ended up not hurting a soul.

You gotta look at the glass half full part of this incident. This is proof that the government is on to those scumbags and are out there being proactive. This will make other wannabees think twice about conducting a similar initiative.

You and I were alive when the Oklahoma City bombing occurred. The F.B.I. and law enforcement ripped apart any militias that existed during that time period. The same will happen if they step out of line too much again.

But once again I reiterate that this happens, https://www.kgw.com/article/news/local/protests/protesters-meet-under-burnside-bridge/283-977d7710-a41a-4fde-9f9a-86a5b2e85bc6.

Crickets from the left wing. Vandalism, looting, or killing of someone who isn't of African descent or is someone the left is against, crickets from the press and the left.

Trump says one thing that can be construed as some reason for people to be angry, plastered all over the front page of Yahoo and CNN.

The hypocrisy is rich to say the least.

[Aseahawkfan]

I could not disagree with you more. And once more, I don’t condone nor justify any violence whatsoever from either side.

Would you feel any less or more threatened if it was a dozen people from BLM planning for months how to kidnap a governor and take over the capitol? I’ll be honest, that would worry me just as much as these guys doing it. It’s terrorism no matter who does it.

I don't recall you being particularly worried when six blocks of Seattle including City Hall were taken over by "protesters" even when someone was murdered. I don't recall you being concerned for those citizens living here or who owned the shops.

I definitely don't recall Seattle City Mayor Jenny Durkan thinking it was such a bad thing to have Seattle City Hall and the East Precinct Police forcibly driven out of precinct while the left wing Seattle press downplayed the takeover of a section of a city. Similar things have happened in Portland like when "protesters" tried to seal the police in a precinct and set it on fire.

Let me go take a look at those old threads, but I don't recall you and c-bob being particularly outraged then.

Anything you can post to rail at Trump, you're all over it. Anything that shows the left is equally bad as the right and you and c-bob are calling people conservatives who think everything is fake. Sure, we don't have any reason to believe the left wing is protecting bad actors and allowing extremely poor behavior by "protesters." It's all fake even with video and documented evidence. Sure, it is, because only "right wing" media is reporting it.

The hypocrisy is rich. The feigned ignorance is rich. The total disregard for the leftist propaganda and lies is as bad all the schlebs who buy what Fox News is selling.

All I'm interested in is a more truthful, lucid view of the world. Not these ridiculous, pretentious partisan viewpoints fueled by biased news stories made by partisan journalists whose main objective is political attacks. This tolerance for chaos, violence, and vandalism is out of hand. I hope once the idiot in chief is voted out, the next president can coordinate this in a fashion to nuke both these left and right wing extremists when they don't have to pander to these clowns for votes. I would screw both of these groups to the wall if I was president and take legal action against these irresponsible city officials for dereliction of duty.

[RiverDog]

I definitely don't recall Seattle City Mayor Jenny Durkan thinking it was such a bad thing to have Seattle City Hall and the East Precinct Police forcibly driven out of precinct while the left wing Seattle press downplayed the takeover of a section of a city. Similar things have happened in Portland like when "protesters" tried to seal the police in a precinct and set it on fire.

That's my point, too. There's been some really 'scary' things that have happened this summer, and they still haven't stopped. There was a major riot this weekend in Portland, lots of damage and arrests, and judging by the placards carried by the rioters, it didn't involve WSE:

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/202 ... treet.html

All I'm interested in is a more truthful, lucid view of the world...This tolerance for chaos, violence, and vandalism is out of hand. I hope once the idiot in chief is voted out, the next president can coordinate this in a fashion to nuke both these left and right wing extremists when they don't have to pander to these clowns for votes. I would screw both of these groups to the wall if I was president and take legal action against these irresponsible city officials for dereliction of duty.

Agreed. It's an easy leap for some of my friends in here to oppose Donald Trump, but I've never voted for a Dem candidate for POTUS in my life yet I can't wait to receive my ballot, mark it for Biden, and send it in. That ought to tell you how badly I want to get back to some semblance of a normal life. I just want this chit to stop. I want my country back.

[Hawktawk]

Far right white supremacy groups are far and away the most violent domestic terrorists in America . For all the rioting etc I’ve got the count at BLM /antifa 1 death during this current rioting . The dumb little kid from Illinois killed 2 white guys and shot another on the streets of their hometown . I don’t approve of the tactics of the far left either but it will NEVER IMPROVE with a fascist president telling proud boys to stand by, praising QAnon for supporting him. No organization dedicated to combating fascism will ever go home with this adminstration in power .

[RiverDog]

Far right white supremacy groups are far and away the most violent domestic terrorists in America . For all the rioting etc I’ve got the count at BLM /antifa 1 death during this current rioting . The dumb little kid from Illinois killed 2 white guys and shot another on the streets of their hometown . I don’t approve of the tactics of the far left either but it will NEVER IMPROVE with a fascist president telling proud boys to stand by, praising QAnon for supporting him. No organization dedicated to combating fascism will ever go home with this adminstration in power .

All of the current participants in this thread and nearly all in the forum have agreed that the most effective actions we as citizens can take to help curb the violence is to rid ourselves of DJT. Speaking for the rest of the participants, that isn't the issue, at least not with us. You're preaching to the choir.

Speaking for myself, what concerns me more than a foiled plot to kidnap a governor is the indifference too many people, politicians, and the media have taken with their tolerance of violent behavior in our major cities. Even when police do make arrests, they end up dropping the charges. There are few if any repercussions for criminal behavior. The left claims to be sensitive to the little guy making close to minimum wage waiting on tables in downtown Portland but they don't seem to give a rip about that same little guy when he gets laid off because his restaurant had to close due to the 'largely peaceful' demonstrations. After all, it's just property damage, right?

[NorthHawk]

The left claims to be sensitive to the little guy making close to minimum wage waiting on tables in downtown Portland but they don't seem to give a rip about that same little guy when he gets laid off because his restaurant had to close due to the 'largely peaceful' demonstrations. After all, it's just property damage, right?

I think what it is in a large part is having to pick and choose. Sacrifices sometimes have to happen to achieve the goals of the big picture.
It's unfortunate, but the larger picture has to win out. I can guarantee nobody in that movement is happy about the impacts on the little guy
because that's who they are trying to help.

[RiverDog]

The left claims to be sensitive to the little guy making close to minimum wage waiting on tables in downtown Portland but they don't seem to give a rip about that same little guy when he gets laid off because his restaurant had to close due to the 'largely peaceful' demonstrations. After all, it's just property damage, right?

I

think what it is in a large part is having to pick and choose. Sacrifices sometimes have to happen to achieve the goals of the big picture. It's unfortunate, but the larger picture has to win out. I can guarantee nobody in that movement is happy about the impacts on the little guy
because that's who they are trying to help.

Like I said, no price is too high for someone else to pay.

[Aseahawkfan]

Far right white supremacy groups are far and away the most violent domestic terrorists in America . For all the rioting etc I’ve got the count at BLM /antifa 1 death during this current rioting . The dumb little kid from Illinois killed 2 white guys and shot another on the streets of their hometown . I don’t approve of the tactics of the far left either but it will NEVER IMPROVE with a fascist president telling proud boys to stand by, praising QAnon for supporting him. No organization dedicated to combating fascism will ever go home with this adminstration in power .

And yet Far Right White Supremacy groups amount to a very small part of the overall violence and trouble that occurs in America. So if they are the most dangerous domestic terrorists in America, then we don't have much of a problem in that area. As in it is vastly over-stated by the left wing media when we have Drug Cartels and Street gangs committing more violence in a weekend than the far right groups do in a bad year like this one.

Which is what I'm getting at. Time to stop letting the media pick and choose our enemies and instead look at primary source information to determine real threats in terms of their actual effect on society and economic and military power worldwide. What are they doing? Who is involved? Who is the leader?

Right now we are led around by the nose by the likes of Fox News and CNN as to who is the threat to America, with them picking and choosing according to what narratives they want to elevate to the public, often according to which political group they want to attack. That is a bad way to do things for a nation.

[Aseahawkfan]

Like I said, no price is too high for someone else to pay.

At the moment, I'm not even sure what big picture is being insinuated.

I blame most of this on the global pandemic. When people don't know what is going to happen in the future in terms of their livelihoods, then they will lose their fricking minds like now.

Which is another reason a Democratic sweep right now would not be terrible for the nation. We need a high level of government coordination for at least the next few years including good amounts of directed government stimulus to dig out of this hole we're in. We have dug a deep hole in the economy that is only being held back from collapsing by the tech industry, stimulus, and policies in place to delay the economic damage that currently exists in terms of mortgages, rents, loans, savings, buying power, wages, and the like.

Things are still extremely bad. The only thing that is going to prevent it from getting worse is more stimulus with a clear and organized plan for re-opening the nation and getting back to business.

So far bankruptcies, lost homes, job losses, and the like have been delayed by stimulus and COVID delay policies. If we don't get more stimulus and extension, it will start to collapse again.

[RiverDog]

I blame most of this on the global pandemic. When people don't know what is going to happen in the future in terms of their livelihoods, then they will lose their fricking minds like now.

The pandemic certainly made the situation more dramatic and longer lasting. I saw an interview with a guy participating in the CHAZ occupation tell a reporter that the only reason he was there was because he'd been laid off due to the lock down.

Which is another reason a Democratic sweep right now would not be terrible for the nation. We need a high level of government coordination for at least the next few years including good amounts of directed government stimulus to dig out of this hole we're in. We have dug a deep hole in the economy that is only being held back from collapsing by the tech industry, stimulus, and policies in place to delay the economic damage that currently exists in terms of mortgages, rents, loans, savings, buying power, wages, and the like.

Things are still extremely bad. The only thing that is going to prevent it from getting worse is more stimulus with a clear and organized plan for re-opening the nation and getting back to business.

So far bankruptcies, lost homes, job losses, and the like have been delayed by stimulus and COVID delay policies. If we don't get more stimulus and extension, it will start to collapse again.

The Democrats are much better at responding to the pandemic, so we need their leadership for at least the first 6 months of 2021. But I don't trust them to rebuild the economy.

[mykc14]

Which is another reason a Democratic sweep right now would not be terrible for the nation. .

It will be interesting to see what happens politically post-Trump. Will Republicans and Democrats play nice and work together or is the divide too big now. Personally I don't like to see one party in control of the Senate, House and Presidency, it has the potential to derail government and let extreme policies through. If Biden would publicly state that they wouldn't pack the court I would feel better about a Democrat sweep, but right now it makes me uneasy. Imagine what this election process would look like if Republicans held the House right now. It seems like there are enough republicans that would challenge Trump if he went off the rails, but it would I would be more worried about him doing something crazy If he had complete Republican control over the government.

[Aseahawkfan]

In normal times, I prefer a divided government. During this global pandemic I would prefer a united and focused government on recovery. This whole Mitch McConnell worrying about deficit spending and costs is pretty useless with an economy this damaged. I could give a rip about the Supreme Court or these little side issues. What I want to see is a focus on getting this pandemic under control including contact tracing, money for small and damaged businesses, stimulus for the unemployed, and a national, coordinated pandemic program.

This lockdown is far worse mentally than these other issues. I believe we will find higher levels of suicide, depression, health, and a massive negative impact from this lockdown. It needs to get over with. Right now the Republicans are worrying about the usual politics, while we need a near complete focus on ending this pandemic in a way that doesn't rely on ignoring it, politicizing it, and ignoring all the protocols nations have used to get this under control and over.

[RiverDog]

It will be interesting to see what happens politically post-Trump. Will Republicans and Democrats play nice and work together or is the divide too big now. Personally I don't like to see one party in control of the Senate, House and Presidency, it has the potential to derail government and let extreme policies through. If Biden would publicly state that they wouldn't pack the court I would feel better about a Democrat sweep, but right now it makes me uneasy. Imagine what this election process would look like if Republicans held the House right now. It seems like there are enough republicans that would challenge Trump if he went off the rails, but it would I would be more worried about him doing something crazy If he had complete Republican control over the government.

I like divided government, too. Our best economic times have come when at least one house of Congress is controlled by the party opposite that of the executive branch. But I don't think it's going to happen. The math is against the R's in this cycle.

If Trump loses big like I think he's going to and if a number of leading R's that have been supportive of Trump, like McConnell and Graham, lose their Senate seats, then the R's have little choice but to remake themselves. I can't even guess which R would emerge as the face of the Republicans. But they can't afford to completely repudiate DJT as he has too large of a following. So yeah, it's going to be interesting.

Most Americans don't favor packing the court, and Biden knows that. He's since tried to alleviate the fears he generated and the opening he's given Trump by ducking the question. Now he's saying that he's "not a fan" of a court packing plan. Even amongst those that identify themselves as Democrats, there isn't an overwhelming majority that approve of the idea, at least not yet. I doubt that enough Dems would be able to agree in numbers great enough to advance such a plan given that there would be unanimous opposition from the Republicans. The one thing that could change that opinion would be a controversial ruling, like overturning Roe v. Wade.

[Aseahawkfan]

I like divided government, too. Our best economic times have come when at least one house of Congress is controlled by the party opposite that of the executive branch. But I don't think it's going to happen. The math is against the R's in this cycle.

If Trump loses big like I think he's going to and if a number of leading R's that have been supportive of Trump, like McConnell and Graham, lose their Senate seats, then the R's have little choice but to remake themselves. I can't even guess which R would emerge as the face of the Republicans. But they can't afford to completely repudiate DJT as he has too large of a following. So yeah, it's going to be interesting.

Most Americans don't favor packing the court, and Biden knows that. He's since tried to alleviate the fears he generated and the opening he's given Trump by ducking the question. Now he's saying that he's "not a fan" of a court packing plan. Even amongst those that identify themselves as Democrats, there isn't an overwhelming majority that approve of the idea, at least not yet. I doubt that enough Dems would be able to agree in numbers great enough to advance such a plan given that there would be unanimous opposition from the Republicans. The one thing that could change that opinion would be a controversial ruling, like overturning Roe v. Wade.

I have been listening to this boogie man of overturning Roe vs. Wade for 30 years as far as me paying attention, yet no Supreme Court has done it yet. Just more BS the Democrats throw out there to scare women to keep their vote. Modern people don't support the elimination of abortion. I can understand some concerns about late term abortion or the harvesting of fetal tissue for science from abortion, but most of these are moot points. They can harvest tons of fetal tissue from fertility labs who often generate tons of embryos for implantation. And not many I can think of want a return to no abortion for any reason laws. The court would have no backing for such a change as it doesn't align with modern values.

The most that will happen is a a little push right shoring up some of the late term abortion allowances and embryo harvesting from abortion. That's all I expect. I don't know if you spent any time reading on late term abortion, but it could use some looking at and shoring up legally. It's damn sick.

[RiverDog]

I have been listening to this boogie man of overturning Roe vs. Wade for 30 years as far as me paying attention, yet no Supreme Court has done it yet. Just more BS the Democrats throw out there to scare women to keep their vote. Modern people don't support the elimination of abortion. I can understand some concerns about late term abortion or the harvesting of fetal tissue for science from abortion, but most of these are moot points. They can harvest tons of fetal tissue from fertility labs who often generate tons of embryos for implantation. And not many I can think of want a return to no abortion for any reason laws. The court would have no backing for such a change as it doesn't align with modern values.

The most that will happen is a a little push right shoring up some of the late term abortion allowances and embryo harvesting from abortion. That's all I expect. I don't know if you spent any time reading on late term abortion, but it could use some looking at and shoring up legally. It's damn sick.

I take a middle ground on abortion. I'm against late term abortion for the reasons you mentioned, but there are some propositions, like those that surfaced in the south, that would ban it even before a woman knows she's pregnant. In any event, it's not the hot button issue that it is with so many of my friends.

Roe v. Wade isn't getting overturned. It's the same scare tactic that the Dems used to try to convince voters that Republicans would get rid of Medicare.

[I-5]

I totally agree the Dem threat of overturning Roe vs Wade is a scare tactic...just like the 'socialism' cry on the other side. It's politics as usual.

When it comes to late term abortions, can anyone one here think of any logical reason why a woman would want to wait that long to have an abortion unless it's an extreme situation? For example: a miscarraige that needs to be removed from the uterus or the mother would die of septic shock. I wish there were more women in this forum, because I would like to hear from them, and would never presume to think a woman would ever consider a late term abortion out of convenience.

[RiverDog]

I totally agree the Dem threat of overturning Roe vs Wade is a scare tactic...just like the 'socialism' cry on the other side. It's politics as usual.

It's refreshing to see the times when you and I can agree on something.

When it comes to late term abortions, can anyone one here think of any logical reason why a woman would want to wait that long to have an abortion unless it's an extreme situation? For example: a miscarraige that needs to be removed from the uterus or the mother would die of septic shock. I wish there were more women in this forum, because I would like to hear from them, and would never presume to think a woman would ever consider a late term abortion out of convenience.

Yes. If a couple goes through a nasty split, if the female gets arrested and convicted of a serious crime and sentenced to a long stay in prison, or if something dramatic happens to their financial or living situation, then I can absolutely see a reason why a woman might want a late term abortion. Whether or not it's logical is debatable.

10-4 about having a female in our discussion. However, I can guarantee you that there are women out there that would consider an abortion out of nothing more than convenience. If they're women out there sick enough to throw a newborn baby in the trash, they're sick enough to want a late term abortion.

A mother accused of leaving her newborn in a trash can outside a North Carolina church has been arrested, police said.

Maryuri Estefany Calix-Macedo, 21, was taken into custody on a first-degree attempted murder charge by Wilmington police after a woman walking her dog near Christ Community Church discovered the newborn boy Thursday, the News & Observer reports.

https://nypost.com/2020/07/20/mom-charg ... na-church/

[I-5]

It's refreshing to see the times when you and I can agree on something.

I really don't think we disagree on everything...a lot of times, a lot of arguments here end up getting stuck in semantics. Interesting that you see it as that bad haha.

However, I can guarantee you that there are women out there that would consider an abortion out of nothing more than convenience.

How can you guarantee something like that? We're strictly talking about late term abortion here, right? Not the first or even the second trimester. Do you have a personal story to relate? Your example about a convicted felon deciding to have a late term abortion sound completely non-sensical to me. Imagine carrying a fetus for 9 months, and all of that INconvenience, then just changing your mind....being a dad, you've seen all that up close, I'm sure. That article you posted was about abandoning a newborn, which is a terrible thing and a crime...but it's not at all about abortion. Not sure why you posted it.

[Aseahawkfan]

Normally late term abortion is only for medical reasons, but obviously there are some tales of loose doctors enacting them on the barest of evidence. I watched the procedure. it looks terrible. A fully developed baby having it's brain punctured and sucked out with a suction tool just looks evil. Then a mostly developed human baby tossed in the biological waste bin. It's not something you want to look at. Looks like some kind of horror movie. It's hard to stomach.

[RiverDog]

I really don't think we disagree on everything...a lot of times, a lot of arguments here end up getting stuck in semantics. Interesting that you see it as that bad haha.

It was just a simple statement, no sarcasm intended, just a general comment. I like it when we agree and it's OK when we don't.

However, I can guarantee you that there are women out there that would consider an abortion out of nothing more than convenience.

How can you guarantee something like that? We're strictly talking about late term abortion here, right? Not the first or even the second trimester. Do you have a personal story to relate? Your example about a convicted felon deciding to have a late term abortion sound completely non-sensical to me. Imagine carrying a fetus for 9 months, and all of that INconvenience, then just changing your mind....being a dad, you've seen all that up close, I'm sure. That article you posted was about abandoning a newborn, which is a terrible thing and a crime...but it's not at all about abortion. Not sure why you posted it.

I have no personal story to to relate. You asked a very general, open ended question, and I gave you an answer. The reason I posted the article about the crime was to show that there are people out there that have a motivation to seek a late term abortion. If that woman has such a lack of human morals that she can kill a newborn baby, she can certainly justify a late term abortion.

And yes, I can visualize a situation where a woman goes through 7 or 8 months of carrying a fetus then suddenly decide that they don't want the baby. Did you ever watch the Godfather Part II where "Kate" tells "Michael" that she had an abortion because she didn't want to bring another child into his world? I can certainly see a situation where a relationship goes so bad so quickly that a woman decides that she doesn't want to bring a child into the world and opts for an abortion.

Does that happen very often? Probably not. But you didn't qualify your question by limiting it to rare occurrences.

In any event, I think we're in general agreement that most late term abortions, except where the life of the mother is in jeopardy, should be banned.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure if fire bombing a police car with officers inside qualifies as terrorism or simply attempted murder:

One person is in custody after allegedly setting a police car on fire while officers were inside, according to the Seattle Police Department.

The incident happened Thursday afternoon in the South Lake Union neighborhood near Dexter Avenue and John Street.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/spd-po ... I5IE6VFM4/

Pretty scary, huh?

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not sure if fire bombing a police car with officers inside qualifies as terrorism or simply attempted murder:

One person is in custody after allegedly setting a police car on fire while officers were inside, according to the Seattle Police Department.

The incident happened Thursday afternoon in the South Lake Union neighborhood near Dexter Avenue and John Street.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/spd-po ... I5IE6VFM4/

Pretty scary, huh?

Only the right is dangerous. They're all just setting up the left as part of a counter-protest operation. The left are all peaceful and not doing anything remotely violent or wrong. You know this, RD.

We conservatives seeing the media are biased do so because we were mindlessly taught that by the right wing media. C'mon now.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure if fire bombing a police car with officers inside qualifies as terrorism or simply attempted murder:

One person is in custody after allegedly setting a police car on fire while officers were inside, according to the Seattle Police Department.

The incident happened Thursday afternoon in the South Lake Union neighborhood near Dexter Avenue and John Street.

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/spd-po ... I5IE6VFM4/

Pretty scary, huh?

Only the right is dangerous. They're all just setting up the left as part of a counter-protest operation. The left are all peaceful and not doing anything remotely violent or wrong. You know this, RD.

We conservatives seeing the media are biased do so because we were mindlessly taught that by the right wing media. C'mon now.

I wonder if anyone on the Seattle city council will call those officers and console them in the same manner that Trump was criticized for not doing with Ms. Whitmer. Or will they just continue to vilify them and push for defunding.

[Aseahawkfan]

I wonder if anyone on the Seattle city council will call those officers and console them in the same manner that Trump was criticized for not doing with Ms. Whitmer. Or will they just continue to vilify them and push for defunding.

The Seattle City Council, Mayor, and Washington State Governor let their police get forcibly ejected from the East Precinct and allowed Capitol Hill to be taken over by "protesters" until someone was murdered. Citizens being denied access to police and emergency services as well as not being able to live and conduct commerce was insufficient to move them. It is said that Sawant let the protesters into City Hall. So no, the Seattle City Council, Mayor, and Governor have shown they are against the police and don't want to support them against protesters. They are too busy making Trump seem like the problem and seeding the left wing press with stories that is right wing white supremacists and militias that are the problem. The left are all reasonable people that never commit acts of violence with educations. It's only the right wing, uneducated, deplorable Trump supporters that do wrong in the world. So we gotta take classes and apologize for our ethnicity.

[RiverDog]

I wonder if anyone on the Seattle city council will call those officers and console them in the same manner that Trump was criticized for not doing with Ms. Whitmer. Or will they just continue to vilify them and push for defunding.

The Seattle City Council, Mayor, and Washington State Governor let their police get forcibly ejected from the East Precinct and allowed Capitol Hill to be taken over by "protesters" until someone was murdered. Citizens being denied access to police and emergency services as well as not being able to live and conduct commerce was insufficient to move them. It is said that Sawant let the protesters into City Hall. So no, the Seattle City Council, Mayor, and Governor have shown they are against the police and don't want to support them against protesters. They are too busy making Trump seem like the problem and seeding the left wing press with stories that is right wing white supremacists and militias that are the problem. The left are all reasonable people that never commit acts of violence with educations. It's only the right wing, uneducated, deplorable Trump supporters that do wrong in the world. So we gotta take classes and apologize for our ethnicity.

Sawant not only led protesters to city hall. She led them to Mayor Durkin's personal residence, using her position as a council member to gain the address. She should be in jail, but the city of Seattle keeps allowing her to serve. That's just one of a number of reasons why I wouldn't live in Seattle for all the tea in China.

[RiverDog]

Here's another 'scary' incident related to this summer's protests:

An Everett man charged last month with stealing a rifle from a burning Seattle police car during the unrest in May has now been charged in a shooting in Renton that wounded a 15-year-old boy.

The county prosecutor charged Little with shooting the boy, who survived, when several people started firing guns at a car meet at 2 a.m. in the Uwajimaya parking lot in Renton.

Charging documents filed Thursday by the King County Prosecutor’s Office say that Jacob D. Little fired shots into a crowd and struck an innocent bystander on Aug. 30, just days before police arrested and charged him with stealing an M-4 police rifle during the fiery protests in downtown Seattle on May 30.

He’s been in federal custody since September, while Seattle police investigators say they ID’d him as the man who walked up to a burning police patrol vehicle during George Floyd protests on May 30. Video posted on social media shows the man reaching into the back of the patrol vehicle and grabbing the M-4 police rifle inside a rifle case.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/comm ... 24c11ced79

I'm not trying to minimize the threat that WSE poses, rather I am trying to show that in addition to this foiled plot to kidnap a governor, there's a lot of very dangerous incidents that have spawned from the BLM protests this summer and that it's not limited to one political ideology. It is a direct result of local politicians refusing to take adequate action to quell the violence.

[Hawktawk]

I want every republican running to lose. Not because i necessarily prefer one party control as a general rule. But because my lifelong party is toxic, immoral, repugnant, unamerican. These enablers who knew better need to be punished for this apostasy. I wish in my heart it could lead to a third party but the trump party needs dead and buried.

[RiverDog]

I want every republican running to lose. Not because i necessarily prefer one party control as a general rule. But because my lifelong party is toxic, immoral, repugnant, unamerican. These enablers who knew better need to be punished for this apostasy. I wish in my heart it could lead to a third party but the trump party needs dead and buried.

You're a little off topic, my friend. There are several other active threads that are more appropriate for your comments.

[Hawktawk]

You're a little off topic, my friend. There are several other active threads that are more appropriate for your comments.

This topic is off topic from a plot to kidnap whitner and keeping in mind this president should he somehow win would have a 6-3 supreme court its imperative the Rs dont have control of the congress in either house.Biden will not be sharply ideological either.Things can get done in the middle of the aisle with Biden. I also saw where you had said you dont trust the democrats to handle the economy. I didn't use to either but hindsight is 2020. Prior to the pinnacle of the Trump economy the lowest unemployment , best stock market percentage wise etc was the Clinton administration and he balanced his last 5 budgets. Obama inherited the great recession with near 10% unemployment, banking crashed, stock market halved. He delivered trump 4.7% unemployment and a 7 year modest economic expansion creating over 200K jobs monthly with a GDP around 2.5-3?Housing was climbing steadily. Deficits his last term were around 500 billion annually.All this in spite of another entitlement program Obamacare which now insures over 20 million. Asea will probably rip me on those Trump has run 1.3 trillion dollar deficits every year, handed out a huge tax break the rich corporations converted into stock buybacks which actually saw revenues to the treasury dip and his atrocious handling of this pandemic will ensure economic misery for quite a while whoever wins. His reckless spending leaving no hay in the barn in good times has made this bail out far more difficult and costly. The actions by the Fed in propping up the market by actually buying trillion of dollars worth of securities from publicly traded companies is in my opinion immoral. When did the market become too big to fail to the point the federal RESERVE is bailing out jack daniels, american airlines etc buying their stock?I own zero stocks. Why should my great grandkids have to pay for our governments screw ups and prop up their fat cat donors so we can be bought off so a politician can win an election. I dont trust Trump on the economy long term at all.

As for right wing extremists Trump criticized Whitmer the same day the plot was uncovered and last night in a town hall refused to repudiate QAnoon conspiracy theories including some wackadoodle conspiracy about Joe Biden getting seal team 6 members shot down to cover up that the assassination of Bin Laden was a fake.
He tweeted this . The president of the united states.

Seal team 6 hero Rob O'neill who told his family he might never come back, flew across enemy territory in an experimental helicopter and actually killed UBL fired back sharply. Suckers and losers indeed. I think O'neill supported Trump in 2016 probably not this time around.

Last week Trump told proud boys to stand back and stand by. Truly chilling a president of the united states is coordinating with these extremists, suggesting they watch the polls which i have seen them enthusiastically enlist to do. I watched a video of a proud boy commander saying if Trump loses there will be civil war."buy some ammo before its all gone."

The subject of leaving the trump party with any shred of power is not off topic.

[RiverDog]

As for right wing extremists Trump criticized Whitmer the same day the plot was uncovered...

Yea, that was a low class move, and just goes to show you what a self centered, insensitive egotistical prick the man is. The guy has no heart. His first thought should have been to communicate to the Governor something like "Wow, I'm sure glad they got those scumbags!" Instead, he tweets critical remarks of her using almost identical language as those that were arrested.

But by the same token, I wonder just how compassionate our pols on the left have been in incidents such as the one I linked where lives were actually threatened and not just a target of a foiled plot. Do they not care about the safety of police officers? The violence and lack of compassion runs on both ends of the political spectrum.

[RiverDog]

More scary stuff:

Police are investigating a series of incidents where homophobic slurs and hateful messages are being left outside the home of Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan.

Some seemed designed to intimidate or threaten. Given that Durkan is the city's first lesbian mayor, a tag left scrawled on the street at her house Thursday night smacks of homophobia.

n addition to threatening messages outside her home, Durkan's staff have seen an increase in threats and hateful messages via her email, swatting, social media, the mayor’s office voicemail and letters, including death threats.

There have been so many threats against Durkan and her staff that Seattle police have streamlined the reporting process to give them a direct channel to detectives. Several messages are serious enough to warrant additional investigation, according to police.

As a former U.S. attorney, Durkan's home address had been kept confidential until Seattle City Councilmember Kshama Sawant marched with a group of demonstrators to Durkan's doorstep this summer.

https://komonews.com/news/local/police- ... ttle-mayor

[Aseahawkfan]

More scary stuff:

Police are investigating a series of incidents where homophobic slurs and hateful messages are being left outside the home of Seattle Mayor Jenny Durkan.

Some seemed designed to intimidate or threaten. Given that Durkan is the city's first lesbian mayor, a tag left scrawled on the street at her house Thursday night smacks of homophobia.

n addition to threatening messages outside her home, Durkan's staff have seen an increase in threats and hateful messages via her email, swatting, social media, the mayor’s office voicemail and letters, including death threats.

There have been so many threats against Durkan and her staff that Seattle police have streamlined the reporting process to give them a direct channel to detectives. Several messages are serious enough to warrant additional investigation, according to police.

As a former U.S. attorney, Durkan's home address had been kept confidential until Seattle City Councilmember Kshama Sawant marched with a group of demonstrators to Durkan's doorstep this summer.

https://komonews.com/news/local/police- ... ttle-mayor

I can't stand Sawant. She is poisonous to this nation. Her and her kind. I wish we could drive the racists and communists from this nation. But our Constitution keeps getting in the way of getting rid of the poison from this nation. That whole free nation thing lets these scumbag racists and communists who would rob people of freedom speak their mind and push their agenda in this nation.

[RiverDog]

I can't stand Sawant. She is poisonous to this nation. Her and her kind. I wish we could drive the racists and communists from this nation. But our Constitution keeps getting in the way of getting rid of the poison from this nation. That whole free nation thing lets these scumbag racists and communists who would rob people of freedom speak their mind and push their agenda in this nation.

Sawant should be in prison for what she did, but that wasn't my point. My point was about the radical left being a "scary" threat to our democracy that's at least on par with that posed by white supremist extremists.

I hear ya about the Constitution being an impediment to getting rid of the 'scumbag racists and communists'. That's one of the downsides of living in a free society.

[Aseahawkfan]

Sawant should be in prison for what she did, but that wasn't my point. My point was about the radical left being a "scary" threat to our democracy that's at least on par with that posed by white supremist extremists.

I hear ya about the Constitution being an impediment to getting rid of the 'scumbag racists and communists'. That's one of the downsides of living in a free society.

We have a lot of different threats in this nation from various sources. Marxist revolutionaries are definitely one of them. I'm still shocked anyone even listens to socialists myself. Anyone believing in forced collectivism is a terrible person. We have all seen how forced socialism or communism works and it makes anything Donald Trump does look like child's play. Having forced collectivists like Sawant take power would be terrible for this nation. They would collectivize America at gun point and rewrite the history books with their version of events with no free press, no freedom of speech, and every freedom Americans have ever possessed taken away as they force acceptance of state and government rule as an absolute and anyone against such rule as enemies of the people.

I'm not sure how big Ocasio-Cortez is into forced collectivism, but if that is what she truly represents rather than the more benign Scandinavian Social Democracy, then she should be driven out of Washington D.C., her and The Squad. Forced collectivism is an evil no nation should support.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure how big Ocasio-Cortez is into forced collectivism, but if that is what she truly represents rather than the more benign Scandinavian Social Democracy, then she should be driven out of Washington D.C., her and The Squad. Forced collectivism is an evil no nation should support.

I heard the other day that AOC couldn't even name the three branches of government. And here I thought that Donald Trump was the only moron that we've elected to a national office.

You're preaching to the choir when you start talking about the evils of socialism and communism. That's one of the reasons why we have to be very careful in how we approach our efforts to rid ourselves of white supremacy. The KKK was defeated back in the 80's not by government but by blood sucking lawyers.

[I-5]

Lol you guys are seriously sounding paranoid. Nowhere have I ever read or heard AOC talking about collectivism. Post a link here if you find it. I've only heard her talk about social services a la Canada/Northern Europe, the same exact way as Bernie has. Does Bernie scare you, too?

Oh, and I hate Sawant too. She should definitely be recalled and possibly charged with a crime for sharing private information of elected officials.

[RiverDog]

Oh, and I hate Sawant too. She should definitely be recalled and possibly charged with a crime for sharing private information of elected officials.

Jenny Durkin isn't just an elected official, she's a former federal prosecutor and disclosing her personal information is a federal crime. Sawant had to have known that. I'm astounded that she's not facing federal charges. Besides, what Sawant did goes beyond human decency.

But you're missing my point (and some good natured ribbing about things being 'scary'). My point was that there's a whole lot of incidents that have happened recently that are just as if not more disturbing than a foiled kidnapping attempt, and that they are being committed by those on the opposite side of the political spectrum of WSE's.

[I-5]

My point was that there's a whole lot of incidents that have happened recently that are just as if not more disturbing than a foiled kidnapping attempt, and that they are being committed by those on the opposite side of the political spectrum of WSE's.

I thought I was commenting about the idea of 'forced collectivism'...on that count, I've NEVER heard anything about that. Please educate me if it's out there that AOC discussed this. I would be very much against anything that is actually socialist by definition.

As far these incidents you're talking about....what incidents are they? Can you point me to an article or something? There are so many dumpster fires raging in the US I can't keep track anymore. Thanks.