2020 General Election

[c_hawkbob]

What a load of crap! The electoral college is NOT the cornerstone of the foundation of this country. We needn't "tear up the constitution" to do away with outdated conventions such as this.

If we are to elect our POTUS by virtue of a nation wide popular vote, then why not use the same method to elect Senators and Congressmen/women? One person, one vote. Right?

No, and there's no good reason to extend the logic to that point. POTUS election is it's own issue entirely. Who a state sends to congress can and should still remain up the the devices of each individual state.

[RiverDog]

If we are to elect our POTUS by virtue of a nation wide popular vote, then why not use the same method to elect Senators and Congressmen/women? One person, one vote. Right?

No, and there's no good reason to extend the logic to that point. POTUS election is it's own issue entirely. Who a state sends to congress can and should still remain up the the devices of each individual state.

So why don't we extend your one person, one vote logic to that point? What would be wrong with electing Senators and Congressmen/women by direct nationwide popular vote?

[c_hawkbob]

So why don't we extend your one person, one vote logic to that point? What would be wrong with electing Senators and Congressmen/women by direct nationwide popular vote?

Oh come on, because I, living in Kentucky, don't care who Arizona sends to congress or how they came to that determination, but I, as an American citizen DO care who WE send to the Whitehouse and want my vote, even though I live in a deep red state, to count equally as much as a voter in Arizona's does this year.

It's really not that hard to understand and I think you're being intentionally obtuse about it.

[RiverDog]

Oh come on, because I, living in Kentucky, don't care who Arizona sends to congress or how they came to that determination, but I, as an American citizen DO care who WE send to the Whitehouse and want my vote, even though I live in a deep red state, to count equally as much as a voter in Arizona's does this year.

It's really not that hard to understand and I think you're being intentionally obtuse about it.

You're right, I was being intentionally obtuse. I was trying to drill down to the base of your logic. Saying you don't care who Arizona sends to Congress doesn't answer the question, so I'll answer it for you.

The reason why we shouldn't apply the one person, one vote logic to Congress is that places like Wyoming would have absolutely no representation. Alaskans would be thousands of miles from a Congressman. What's worse, the elected officials would have almost no first hand knowledge of the unique problems or issues experienced by rural Americans. We therefore have a system where the Senate, and to a lesser degree the House of Representatives, are apportioned by geography rather than by population. Those were the same concerns that many of the founding fathers had when they came to their big state vs. small state compromise and how we ended up with a bicameral legislative branch.

That's the very same logic that makes the electoral college relevant in modern America and in the determination as to who should occupy the executive branch. It forces the candidates to appeal to the entire nation and not just craft a message or platform that caters exclusively to large metropolitan areas.

[c_hawkbob]

You're using the logic against one person one vote in state politics as a straw man here. I never said it should apply to state level politics and agree with your reasoning that it shouldn't. That has nothing to do however with how it applies to Presidential elections. That one person in Wyoming would still have his state representative in congress just as he has now and his vote for POTUS would count no more or less than would mine.

[RiverDog]

You're using the logic against one person one vote in state politics as a straw man here. I never said it should apply to state level politics and agree with your reasoning that it shouldn't. That has nothing to do however with how it applies to Presidential elections. That one person in Wyoming would still have his state representative in congress just as he has now and his vote for POTUS would count no more or less than would mine.

That's where we differ. IMO if state level politics is appropriate for the legislative branch, then it is also appropriate for the executive branch.

[c_hawkbob]

That's where we differ. IMO if state level politics is appropriate for the legislative branch, then it is also appropriate for the executive branch.

You're right, that's where we disagree.

[I-5]

The reason why we shouldn't apply the one person, one vote logic to Congress is that places like Wyoming would have absolutely no representation.

Even if they did away with the electoral vote, the fact is, Wyoming's (pop: 500k) 2 senators have the same power as California's (45m) 2 senators, so yes, there is still quite a disproportionate balance of power.

I don't think Trump is going to go out gracefully in any way, shape or form, so I fully see him trying shenanigans all the way to January. That's who we have as our leader.

[RiverDog]

The reason why we shouldn't apply the one person, one vote logic to Congress is that places like Wyoming would have absolutely no representation.

Even if they did away with the electoral vote, the fact is, Wyoming's (pop: 500k) 2 senators have the same power as California's (45m) 2 senators, so yes, there is still quite a disproportionate balance of power.

That is true. But the alternative to a disproportionate balance of power is no representation for those half million poor souls. If you happened to live in Fairbanks, AK, would you feel part of a country that didn't include one single state resident amongst the ruling class in Washington, DC?

With a country as big and diverse as ours is, it's going to be impossible to conceive of a perfect system that represents everyone equally. I'm not necessarily married to the electoral college. If I had my druthers, I would make 3 modifications to the Electoral College: (1) Make the voting process automatic and get rid of faithless electors, (2) get rid of winner-take-all and apportion electoral votes according to Congressional district similar to what they do in Maine and Nebraska, which would take the focus off of the battleground states, and (3) eliminate the 100 votes represented by the number of Senators each state has along with reducing Washington DC's electoral representation from 3 to 1, which would result in a total of 436 electoral votes. There would be roughly one vote for every 750,000 people AND each area of the country would be equally represented in the electoral college.

I don't think Trump is going to go out gracefully in any way, shape or form, so I fully see him trying shenanigans all the way to January. That's who we have as our leader.

It's going to be an interesting 10 weeks.

[I-5]

With a country as big and diverse as ours is, it's going to be impossible to conceive of a perfect system that represents everyone equally. I'm not necessarily married to the electoral college. If I had my druthers, I would do three things: (1) Make the voting process automatic and get rid of faithless electors, (2) get rid of winner-take-all and apportion electoral votes according to Congressional district like they do in Maine and Nebraska, which would take the focus off of the battleground states, and (3) eliminate the 100 votes represented by the number of Senators each state has along with reducing Washington DC's electoral representation from 3 to 1, which would result in a total of 436 electoral votes. At least that way, there would be roughly one vote for every 750,000 people AND each area of the country would be equally represented in the electoral college

I mostly agree with this. But I would prefer a combination of popularly elected presidents and keep the 2 senators per state. This doesn't solve the problem of the 2 party system though.

[RiverDog]

With a country as big and diverse as ours is, it's going to be impossible to conceive of a perfect system that represents everyone equally. I'm not necessarily married to the electoral college. If I had my druthers, I would do three things: (1) Make the voting process automatic and get rid of faithless electors, (2) get rid of winner-take-all and apportion electoral votes according to Congressional district like they do in Maine and Nebraska, which would take the focus off of the battleground states, and (3) eliminate the 100 votes represented by the number of Senators each state has along with reducing Washington DC's electoral representation from 3 to 1, which would result in a total of 436 electoral votes. At least that way, there would be roughly one vote for every 750,000 people AND each area of the country would be equally represented in the electoral college

I mostly agree with this. But I would prefer a combination of popularly elected presidents and keep the 2 senators per state. This doesn't solve the problem of the 2 party system though.

I want to keep the Legislative branch as it is. Same with the Judicial branch. My comments refer to only the electoral college.

There is a proposal called ranked voting that might make it easier for an independent or 3rd party candidate to compete:

Because it helps eliminate vote-splitting, a ranked-choice voting system can have the effect of encouraging more third-party and centrist candidates, advocates say. Michael Bloomberg, a centrist, third-party candidate, considered running in the 2016 presidential election but decided not to upon concluding that he might split the Democratic vote with Clinton, increasing the chances of Trump’s victory. (Trump, of course, still won the election, though he lost the popular vote to Clinton.) Again, the 2016 election offers a good hypothetical example. If a ranked-choice voting system had been in place in Michigan, then Clinton, not Trump, may have won that state. Because neither candidate received a majority of the Michigan vote, ranked-choice voting would have come into play. And if we can assume that most Stein voters would have chosen Clinton as their second choice, the former Secretary of State would have won, according to Saari. Trump won Michigan by 10,700; Stein received more than 51,000 votes.

https://time.com/5718941/ranked-choice-voting/

[Aseahawkfan]

Looks like Biden won. Good riddance to Trump. Now if the Senate can stay red, then we have a stopgap on the crazy. If the Senate flips blue, then hopefully Joe will slow the crazy down. We shall see.

Probably take another month to completely finalize everything, but I doubt Trump's crybaby lawsuits and pleas will help him much. Republican leadership isn't interested in disrupting an election without serious proof. I already knew Republican leadership wasn't going to stop anyone from voting or what not. Just the party propaganda machines spreading rubbish about the other during a tight election.

Now we can get someone serious to handle this virus as it starts to blow up again. Fricking moron Trump.

[RiverDog]

I'm sure that Trump will insist on a bunch of recounts. He's already requested one in Wisconsin. But voting differences between the original counts and a recount are measured in the hundreds, not the thousands. The narrowest Biden margin is Georgia with 4200 votes and growing. Even if by some miracle he were to flip one state, there's none out there with enough electoral votes that can drop Biden below 270.

Biden might as well get started on interviewing people for his cabinet. That would even further enrage Trump if he saw a parade of Secretary of State candidates file in and out of Biden's home.

[Hawktawk]

We heard “Russia interfered with our election!” for four years yet “there’s nothing to see here” is now the battle cry. LMFAO!

Yeah you have that all wrong, ass backwards. Trump welcomed russian interference, asked for it numerous times on film, asked for Wikileaks to find dirt publicly dozens of times from the stump. 6 people went to jail. Trump committed provable obstruction of justice and even perjured himself in written answers. Mueller made it clear Trumps actions were "unamerican" and that he had been "untruthful, generally speaking" . Trump conspired with our greatest geopolitical foe and he railed against his hand picked comey replacement Wray for announcing they are doing it again !!!!!That doesn't even include Ukraine which got him the honor of being the only president impeached in his first term, only one ever to have a senator of his party vote to convict. I watched him look into the camera and ask China to investigate the bidens if they wanted a trade deal. Bolton made clear he believes Trump does things as president to benefit himself personally or politically all the time .Dan Coates former NSA director and indiana republican senator say he believes "russia has something on trump"
Funny I dont recall Biden asking Putin for any help from the stump...

Iv been watching poll workers and state election officials OF BOTH PARTIES for 3 days speaking to the veracity of these votes and get menaced by trumpanzees with long guns even though the delays are caused mostly by state house republicans refusing to allow early counting of mail in ballots. And then there's the Hatchet man Dejoy of the 1.5 million donation to Trumps campaign who took over the post office in July and immediately tried to kill mail delivery in predominantly democratic strongholds with some success. Hundreds of thousands of votes many from swing states were not processed in time as a result as the USPS defied court orders to sweep their facilities for ballots not showing up in the system.Trump is suing republican elections officials See Trump is trying to steal it again.He committed election interference again and continues to with his unhinged behavior.. Its not fake news. That's the facts.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1752419/tr ... -beheaded/

This was Trump's strategist for the first year of his term. Triggered trumpanzee much???? This is so dangerous what they are doing.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1752419/trump-adviser-steve-bannon-fauci-fbi-wray-beheaded/

This was Trump's strategist for the first year of his term. Triggered trumpanzee much???? This is so dangerous what they are doing.

Bannon is an idiot. He talks so much, does nothing real. He's like that guy that likes to instigate, but has no balls to do anything himself. He keeps hoping he'll find someone else to fall for his BS and act on it. He would be that weasly guy in a High School movie that was going around telling Timmy the Jock that Joey was calling him names behind his back, so he can see what Timmy will do.

Trump and his crew are at an end. Their party is over.

They're all like Trump: all talk, no real bite. Like a little yappy dog that makes a lot of noise, but who runs when things get real.

[RiverDog]

I woke up this morning expecting to see Biden having been declared the winner, but they haven't even called Nevada, of which Biden has stretched his lead out to nearly 2% and over 22,000 votes. Now they're saying that they'll call the election 'by the end of this morning.' It's odd that they called Arizona so early and with worse math than the other states, but even Fox is sticking with their call.

Most of the political paraphernalia in my neighborhood has been taken down and I'm not seeing a lot of Facebook posts from my Trump supporting friends so maybe they've begun to move on.

[Hawktawk]

I woke up this morning expecting to see Biden having been declared the winner, but they haven't even called Nevada, of which Biden has stretched his lead out to nearly 2% and over 22,000 votes. Now they're saying that they'll call the election 'by the end of this morning.' It's odd that they called Arizona so early and with worse math than the other states, but even Fox is sticking with their call.

Most of the political paraphernalia in my neighborhood has been taken down and I'm not seeing a lot of Facebook posts from my Trump supporting friends so maybe they've begun to move on.

The only reason they want to be damn sure is the crazy Trumpanzees menacing poll workers with long guns. IMO the delay is making it worse, allowing emotions to become more intense. Its a tinderbox. Frankly i think Nevada, AZ, Penn should be called immediately.Im seeing Trump supporters being interviewed at these protests and almost universally they think democrats are just making up votes. the danger is not passed. Thankfully there is law enforcement but they are outgunned

[RiverDog]

The only reason they want to be damn sure is the crazy Trumpanzees menacing poll workers with long guns. IMO the delay is making it worse, allowing emotions to become more intense. Its a tinderbox. Frankly i think Nevada, AZ, Penn should be called immediately.

AP and Fox have already called Arizona, but that state is a little weird as there isn't the same pattern on the mail in ballots that was present in other states and Biden's lead has been shrinking. Fox is still giving Biden AZ in their electoral vote count even though they're displaying the current vote count alongside with the other undecided states. CBS and CNN haven't been counting AZ in Biden's electoral vote total.

Georgia has about 8,000 absentee military ballots to count, and with a 7,000 vote margin, it might be some time before that state is called.

In PA, they're down to counting over 100,000 provisional ballots which take a lot longer to process and they don't know exactly how those votes are going to break. They had some good math on the mail-in and drop off ballots but that doesn't necessarily apply to provisional ballots. They're insisting on a 95%+ probability and Biden's lead is just .5% and 29,000 votes. They apparently didn't count last night and are just now resuming. They're saying that they can make a call very soon. Once they call PA, they can give the election to Biden.

[NorthHawk]

With millions of ballots being cast in each of the States still in play and the difference being only thousands, it would seem natural that recounts be demanded.
There's too much at stake not to.

[c_hawkbob]

With millions of ballots being cast in each of the States still in play and the difference being only thousands, it would seem natural that recounts be demanded.
There's too much at stake not to.

No, there are not millions still in play; As of last night Arizona had about 250,000 votes left to count - Georgia less than 20,000 - Nevada 190,000 - North Carolina 116,000 and Pennsylvania 113,000.

[NorthHawk]

My apologies, I meant to say millions of ballots having been cast, not in play. Although in a recount they would be in play.
Sorry for the confusion.

[RiverDog]

With millions of ballots being cast in each of the States still in play and the difference being only thousands, it would seem natural that recounts be demanded. There's too much at stake not to.

All of the contested states except Arizona allows for a candidate to request a recount, but they don't necessarily have to grant them. In Arizona, recounts are only done if the difference is 200 or fewer or a margin of .1%. Candidates cannot request a recount.

It is extremely unlikely that any of the states currently with contested outcomes will have a different result after a recount. In Florida, a state larger than any of those that are undecided, the infamous state wide recount resulted in a difference of 1200 between the recount and the original count and most of those were due to the type of ballot being used, ie punch cards (remember the hanging chad controversy?).

Trump can take any decision by a state not to recount to court and stands a good chance of succeeding in forcing them into a recount, but especially given that he'd have to flip two states, it's not going to change the outcome of the election.

[RiverDog]

It's all over but the crying. The AP has just called PA for Joe Biden, which unofficially makes him the President elect.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the oval office as I'm sure that a lot of chit is flying around in there about now.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... fraud.html
Don't worry RD. Fuctopolous blasts off a bunch more lies on twitter about a stolen election and he's actually gone golfing now. Fitting end for the 74 year old spoiled golden spoon brat.

The dirty secret as he threatens more attacks is that in fact his legal team is filing less and less lawsuits by the hour. What's the point and he's probably out of money. Nevada's been called, AZ is quite likely going to be Biden but close and the vote is basically in in Georgia and Bidens pushing a 10K lead so he will win that.His allies on Fox and elsewhere are urging him to concede but we see how that is going. Trump is sunk and the whispers of his coming personal legal hurricane are growing louder

[RiverDog]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8924181/Trump-launches-new-barrage-unfounded-claims-election-fraud.html
Don't worry RD. Fuctopolous blasts off a bunch more lies on twitter about a stolen election and he's actually gone golfing now. Fitting end for the 74 year old spoiled golden spoon brat.

The dirty secret as he threatens more attacks is that in fact his legal team is filing less and less lawsuits by the hour. What's the point and he's probably out of money. Nevada's been called, AZ is quite likely going to be Biden but close and the vote is basically in in Georgia and Bidens pushing a 10K lead so he will win that.His allies on Fox and elsewhere are urging him to concede but we see how that is going. Trump is sunk and the whispers of his coming personal legal hurricane are growing louder

Assuming that Biden takes PA, AZ, NV, and GA, he'll end up with 306 electoral votes, about the same margin over which Trump beat Hillary. He should win the popular vote by about 3%.

But before we start dancing on his grave, there's the stark reality that despite his many personal flaws and his titanic bumbling of the coronavirus crisis, over 70 million people will have voted for Trump, the Dems likely won't retake the Senate despite a huge mathematical advantage, and the Dems will have lost seats in the House. Biden is not entering office with a huge mandate.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump is done. Even in 2000 with one lawsuit, Gore couldn't get any movement on it. With this many lawsuits required to shift the election, no chance of that happening.

I'm so happy all the whining should stop. All the ridiculous claims of coups and third terms and other foolishness. We can get back to the regular level of American stupid without the Trump stupid being added to it.

Another few months and Trump will leave the White House if he doesn't do so early like the petulant child he is. Some of these idgits are writing articles about Trump being a Kingmaker like the Republicans even liked this guy. I figure the real Republican power players are going to fumigate the Trump stink out of their party and never let it return any time soon. He's a loser who couldn't win a second term or manage a global pandemic. People should call him a loser, really prick his ego.

Four years of narcissistic jackassery. It was amusing before the global pandemic, not so amusing during a global pandemic. Glad we have a grown up in office now who doesn't look at a virus like a PR issue.

I can't believe it took the total idiot handling of a global pandemic with the guy getting the virus two weeks before the election after ridiculing his rival to barely take him out, but at least it got done. There is a lot of hate for the left out there. I wonder if Biden can get some of it repaired. I'm getting tired of this crap. I almost like the media should be further regulated and controlled, but then we end up like China. But even a free society, you can't seem to get the media to act responsibly or sensibly due to he need for ratings. Fear-mongering and divisiveness sell, reasonableness, honesty, and reporting the general news apparently does not.

[RiverDog]

Trump is done. Even in 2000 with one lawsuit, Gore couldn't get any movement on it. With this many lawsuits required to shift the election, no chance of that happening.

I'm so happy all the whining should stop. All the ridiculous claims of coups and third terms and other foolishness. We can get back to the regular level of American stupid without the Trump stupid being added to it.

Another few months and Trump will leave the White House if he doesn't do so early like the petulant child he is. Some of these idgits are writing articles about Trump being a Kingmaker like the Republicans even liked this guy. I figure the real Republican power players are going to fumigate the Trump stink out of their party and never let it return any time soon. He's a loser who couldn't win a second term or manage a global pandemic. People should call him a loser, really prick his ego.

Four years of narcissistic jackassery. It was amusing before the global pandemic, not so amusing during a global pandemic. Glad we have a grown up in office now who doesn't look at a virus like a PR issue.

I can't believe it took the total idiot handling of a global pandemic with the guy getting the virus two weeks before the election after ridiculing his rival to barely take him out, but at least it got done. There is a lot of hate for the left out there. I wonder if Biden can get some of it repaired. I'm getting tired of this crap. I almost like the media should be further regulated and controlled, but then we end up like China. But even a free society, you can't seem to get the media to act responsibly or sensibly due to he need for ratings. Fear-mongering and divisiveness sell, reasonableness, honesty, and reporting the general news apparently does not.

There's already rumors starting that Trump may run again in 2024. I've also heard that he may start his own syndicated television program. He's one of those guys that always has to be the center of attention.

How the Republicans re-constitute themselves over the next 4 years is going to be interesting. They aren't going to have to blow up the party like everyone, including me, thought that they'd have to. If they find a standard bearer that that doesn't have the personal flaws that Trump has, they'll be very formidable in this decade.

[c_hawkbob]

The GOP would insane to go back down that road at this point. It was absolutely Trumpism that lost them what should have been a very winnable election this year. The GOP did much better down ballot than at the top of the card this time, that doesn't generally earn a second shot at it. 2016 was a one off event, this clod should never have been president in the first place.

[RiverDog]

The GOP would insane to go back down that road at this point. It was absolutely Trumpism that lost them what should have been a very winnable election this year. The GOP did much better down ballot than at the top of the card this time, that doesn't generally earn a second shot at it. 2016 was a one off event, this clod should never have been president in the first place.

It depends on how you look at it. Almost 9 million more people voted for Trump in this election than in 2016. At the moment, Trump has 47.7% of the popular vote. That's over 1% higher than the percentage he got in 2016 and he did it in an election where there was a historic turnout, which was supposed to favor the Dem candidate. As much as I hate to admit it, when you consider that Trump did such a horrible job responding to the pandemic, his performance in this election was remarkable. One can easily argue that it was Trump's presence on the ballot that got the R's to the polls and helped them retain control the Senate and flip a number of House seats.

[c_hawkbob]

At the moment, Trump has 47.7% of the popular vote. That's over 1% higher than the percentage he got in 2016

Talk to me when all the California mail in ballots are counted. You're comparing incomplete data to complete data.

[Aseahawkfan]

There's already rumors starting that Trump may run again in 2024. I've also heard that he may start his own syndicated television program. He's one of those guys that always has to be the center of attention.

How the Republicans re-constitute themselves over the next 4 years is going to be interesting. They aren't going to have to blow up the party like everyone, including me, thought that they'd have to. If they find a standard bearer that that doesn't have the personal flaws that Trump has, they'll be very formidable in this decade.

My personal opinion is that most of the GOP tolerated Trump, but don't like him barring a few true believers. I know almost no one that loved Trump. Almost all of what I saw from friends voting for him were always of the mind, "Yeah, Trump's a jerk, but he has good policies and he stands up to the left." Trump was liked for flipping the middle finger to the Democratic left, who they hate. I don't think Trump himself is much liked as other than a vessel for their own dislike of the left and desire to do what Trump did to them. I don't think I ever heard anyone say, "Trump's a real smart guy. I really like him." He was more that guy that went off emotion like so many of these right wing voters do that are tired of the left putting down America, constantly focusing on all the negatives of our history, and looking to tear down the country as they see it. When I listen to right wing voters, they aren't supportive at all of police brutality, racism, hate, or the like. They are just tired of having a nation they love constantly attacked, put down, and pushed in a direction they don't believe in or desire.

Just like when I talk to reasonable Democrats, they aren't interested in vilifying cops, destroying all business, and aren't a bunch of socialists who hate the military.

But the worst elements of each party are on full display at their media mouthpieces. It makes both parties and voters look far worse than they actually are. Something needs to be done when the media is acting less as a news organization and more as an antagonistic, divisive, and propaganda driven mouthpiece for each party whose goals and agenda are not in line with working Americans. They are not providing a quality vision of America. A quality vision if America is not a Trump America or a Alexandra Ocasio-Cortez America. Those are both terrible examples of a future for America.

I'm not sure where we find better leadership, but we need it and need it soon. I hope Biden will at least be a decent stopgap for now. I'm doubtful Kamala is as far left personally as Fox News would have us believe. I think she can move centrist as a national politician versus a California state politician having to pander to elitist liberals that infest that state.

[RiverDog]

At the moment, Trump has 47.7% of the popular vote. That's over 1% higher than the percentage he got in 2016

Talk to me when all the California mail in ballots are counted. You're comparing incomplete data to complete data.

Sure, no problem. But you left out the part where I noted that over 70 million people, 9 million more than in 2016, have already voted for Trump. California's mail in ballots will add even more to those totals.

You also overlooked one of the other things I noted, something that you yourself had said: That high turnout favors the Dems. But clearly in this election, it didn't. The election drew a lot of conservatives out of the woodwork.

[Aseahawkfan]

Sure, no problem. But you left out the part where I noted that over 70 million people, 9 million more than in 2016, have already voted for Trump. California's mail in ballots will add even more to those totals.

You also overlooked one of the other things I noted, something that you yourself had said: That high turnout favors the Dems. But clearly in this election, it didn't. The election drew a lot of conservatives out of the woodwork.

All this indicates to me is the media propaganda arms of each agency did a really great job of fear-mongering.

A few of my buddies think America is going to burn with Biden in office and turn into a terrible place. I have to roll my eyes at this trash. I told them Biden is a centrist Democrat. He's not going to push any extreme agenda. You're likely to get a lot of stimulus. America isn't going to change much under Biden, just like it didn't change much under Trump. For all the talk we didn't see much measurable difference in life with Trump other than his constant yapping and engaging in petty fights as well as the media portraying every problem with America as driven by Trump, much like Fox did during Obama.

Until the global pandemic hit of course and Trump FUBARed it. That everyone felt. That was real and the media can't change what a virus does. The other stuff was mostly stupid exaggerations.

Trump's done. Let him go yell on twitter. His fangs and presence in the national dialogue is going to be gone. No more idiot talk from the White House other than the occasional Biden gaffe. I can live with that.

Tell me you won't sleep better with a boring, quiet president, Riverdog. I'm already feeling relieved and more relaxed. I will sleep better from here on out. I really thought the Democrats botched it again for a minute there. I couldn't even believe this idgit almost won again.

[RiverDog]

Tell me you won't sleep better with a boring, quiet president, Riverdog. I'm already feeling relieved and more relaxed. I will sleep better from here on out. I really thought the Democrats botched it again for a minute there. I couldn't even believe this idgit almost won again.

I didn't sleep bad to begin with. I didn't have the same reservations that my friend Hawktalk had about Trump carrying the nuclear football.

I just wanted Trump out of my face. He is an embarrassment as I truly believe that he's a moron. How in the hell he can get a degree from an Ivy League school is beyond me. I graduated from a glorified teacher's college with barely a 3.0 GPA and I honestly believe that I compare to Trump like Einstein compares to Forest Gump.

[c_hawkbob]

Sure, no problem. But you left out the part where I noted that over 70 million people, 9 million more than in 2016, have already voted for Trump. California's mail in ballots will add even more to those totals.

You also overlooked one of the other things I noted, something that you yourself had said: That high turnout favors the Dems. But clearly in this election, it didn't. The election drew a lot of conservatives out of the woodwork.

I didn't overlook or leave out anything. Your claims that I responded to were about percentages not total numbers. Once all the otes are counted we'll revisit those claims. Until then it all just mental masterbation.

[Aseahawkfan]

I didn't sleep bad to begin with. I didn't have the same reservations that my friend Hawktalk had about Trump carrying the nuclear football.

I just wanted Trump out of my face. He is an embarrassment as I truly believe that he's a moron. How in the hell he can get a degree from an Ivy League school is beyond me. I graduated from a glorified teacher's college with barely a 3.0 GPA and I honestly believe that I compare to Trump like Einstein compares to Forest Gump.

I slept well before the pandemic with Trump, not after. This idiot's handling of the pandemic went from understandable since so many missed on the initial virus given China lied about it, to complete idiocy and politicization of what should have been a very serious undertaking by the Federal government. Then it just continued the downward spiral until the ultimate irony of the idiot getting the coronavrius and even then refusing to change anything he was doing. Someone filled with such hubris as to not know when he is wrong during a global pandemic should not be in charge of a nation. Even Boris Johnson after getting sick had the sense to adjust his behaviors and governance. Not dumbass, nope. He's a "man" and everything is fine.

I can't feel good with that kind of idiot in office during a global pandemic. It's fun to rib the looney Dems and leftists about Trump when the economy is good and they're buying into every unproven Democrat conspiracy theory and acting like Trump is some kind of tyrant. It's not fun when he's acting like an idiot, not listening to the doctors and scientists advising him, and treating a virus like a PR issue not implementing contact tracing, travel controls, and not encouraging mask wearing crying about Dems this and Dems that while he's making bad decisions. That's not fun at all.

[Aseahawkfan]

So nice to hear a speech by a president not trying to start petty fights and worrying about crowd sizes. I much prefer a president who knows who he works for and that keeping the peace is important to the well-being of the nation. The tiresome ass is gone.

Biden seems to have risen to the occasion on this opening speech.

[RiverDog]

So nice to hear a speech by a president not trying to start petty fights and worrying about crowd sizes. I much prefer a president who knows who he works for and that keeping the peace is important to the well-being of the nation. The tiresome ass is gone.

Biden seems to have risen to the occasion on this opening speech.

I didn't watch Biden's speech. I was on my treadmill and decided to channel surf between a couple of college football games. I seldom watch any politician's speeches live. I view politicians much like I do professional athletes and other celebrities: I don't worship them or put them on a pedestal. Although I recognize that others may see them in a different light than I do, I don't need them for my own inspirational well being. They're there to do a job. I'll be much more interested to see how Biden puts together his administration than I will in listening to any of his speeches.

But like you and many others, I am ecstatic to see us having set a 10 week timer on that jackass. Trump was an embarrassment. He did not have a command of the facts, he was a certified narcissist, a confirmed racist, and due to my demographic similarities, I found myself constantly having to differentiate myself from him. It's been a long 4 years.

[RiverDog]

I didn't overlook or leave out anything. Your claims that I responded to were about percentages not total numbers. Once all the otes are counted we'll revisit those claims. Until then it all just mental masterbation.

Mental masturbation? Really?!

5 days after the election, we'll be measuring the changes in percentages of national totals by a couple of tenths of a percent. They won't alter any of the interpretations one way or the other. But have it your way.