A Peaceful Transition

[c_hawkbob]

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[Hawktawk]

There were shootings and stabbings in DC and also Olympia WA in the last couple days.Thousands of fringe white separatist groups have descended on DC and many are still there.

DC police said the proud boys were "actively looking for a fight" and were subsequently engaged by the antifa members.. A very heavy police presence is all that prevented complete chaos. Most of the violence was committed by the proud boys and they accounted for the majority of arrests.Ive said it before when your organization battles perceived fascists and fascists are in the streets looking for a fight its what happens.

This is likely the first time a president has overflown a white nationalist march in marine one. Also likely the first time a proud boys commander has visited the White house as he did Sunday. WH spokeswoman said he was on a "white house christmas tour" and did not meet with the president.
A national party is steeped in racist white national followers. Most likely realize revenge is best served cold. I would not want to be any of the courageous politicians and poll workers who will be in danger their whole lives due to millions of poisoned minds.

Might be a little early to be taking a victory lap RD. Long time till Jan 20. I'm glad we got through the electors but today trump is tweeting calls for the republican governor and secretary of state in Georgia to be jailed.

Not safe, Not normal. Not over till trump is dead or incarcerated.

[RiverDog]

There were shootings and stabbings in DC and also Olympia WA in the last couple days.Thousands of fringe white separatist groups have descended on DC and many are still there.

Please, give us some links so we can see what incidents you are talking about. There were a few incidents last weekend prior to the Electoral College vote, but there wasn't anything reported yesterday that I am aware of.

I didn't say that it was completely quiet and tranquil. What I said was that there wasn't widespread violence related to the Electoral College vote, and I stand by that assessment.

[I-5]

Please, give us some links so we can see what incidents you are talking about. There were a few incidents last weekend prior to the Electoral College vote, but there wasn't anything reported yesterday that I am aware of.

Here:
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/multiple-people-stabbed-23-arrested-during-election-protest-in-washington-d-c/

and here:

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a34954547/trump-washington-dc-olympia-washington-rally-stabbing-violence-proud-boys/

[RiverDog]

Please, give us some links so we can see what incidents you are talking about. There were a few incidents last weekend prior to the Electoral College vote, but there wasn't anything reported yesterday (Monday) that I am aware of.

Here:
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/multiple-people-stabbed-23-arrested-during-election-protest-in-washington-d-c/

and here:

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a34954547/trump-washington-dc-olympia-washington-rally-stabbing-violence-proud-boys/

That's not what I was talking about. Those incidents in your links occurred two days before the Electoral College vote. We were told to expect violence during the vote and it didn't materialize, nor have we seen anything major or widespread since the vote was taken 3 days ago. With all those thousands of armed-to-the-teeth white separatists still being in DC as Hawktalk claims there are, wouldn't you expect to have seen something?

Some of you have been talking about a possible revolution, that there's going to be blood flowing down the streets like rain water, and I simply am not seeing it. If there existed this brewing revolution as some of my friends in here are claiming there is, I would think that something like the official vote tally would have provided an ignition source to set of this supposed powder keg and pushed many thousands of rioters into the streets. If it were as bad as everybody is telling me it is, we should be seeing images of tens of thousands of protesters taking their cause to the streets in major cities and state capitols across the nation. Instead, all I hear is crickets.

Those events in your links pale in comparison to the violence associated with BLM this past summer. But, unlike last summer, at least they are arresting those that are rioting.

[I-5]

Some of you have been talking about a possible revolution, that there's going to be blood flowing down the streets like rain water, and I simply am not seeing it.

I don't see it happening either, as I've said, though asf think it's possible.

[c_hawkbob]

Acknowledging the possibility is not the same as saying we think it's going to happen. If you're not acknowledging the possibility (not probability, possibility) then you are just not taking all possibilities into account. That gives you no "I told you so" rights at all.

[RiverDog]

Acknowledging the possibility is not the same as saying we think it's going to happen. If you're not acknowledging the possibility (not probability, possibility) then you are just not taking all possibilities into account. That gives you no "I told you so" rights at all.

Here's some random copies and pastes of the type of speculation that gave rise to my comments:

He's putting in place the building blocks for a political coup. If it goes forward, only time will tell but it's a dangerous precedent.

The trump party is absolutely off the rails. This ain't a publicity stunt or fundraiser opportunity. The man wants installed. If they pull it off there will be a civil war and my old 61 year old butt will be in the streets right along with everyone else. Can truly not comprehend how this is happening.

Hopefully on Jan 20 there will be a peaceful transfer of POWER but the peaceful transition thing is long since out the window.

It will be interesting if Trump decides to disrespect the electoral vote or if we have faithless electors try to play games. If that happens, we're in new territory.

If it gets bad enough, well, that's what the Second Amendment is for. Time to arm up and decide this the hard way. I'm sure before that happens, the government will send in law enforcement to "escort" him out.

There were shootings and stabbings in DC and also Olympia WA in the last couple days. Thousands of fringe white separatist groups have descended on DC and many are still there.

DC police said the proud boys were "actively looking for a fight" and were subsequently engaged by the antifa members.. A very heavy police presence is all that prevented complete chaos. Most of the violence was committed by the proud boys and they accounted for the majority of arrests.

Ive said it before when your organization battles perceived fascists and fascists are in the streets looking for a fight its what happens.

..but with each passing milestone he brushes off it's looking more and more like all these "you wait till inauguration day, it'll be Trump getting inaugurated" idiots I have to contend with at work and at the gym (yes, they're still open here) just might get their way. Like I said, it's just a whole different atmosphere down here.

Those aren't predictions, but nor are they simply acknowledgments of a possibility. I got the sense that there was a lot of worry and fright in some of those statements.

I am not making this an "I told you so" statement. I simply said that I have yet to see anything that resembles the type of violent behavior that I've been led to believe is "possible", not only by some of my friends here but in the media in general.

[c_hawkbob]

Nothing in those quotes effect the veracity of what I said.

And BTW, I think for the most part acknowledgement of what is transpiring and the possible ramifications is exactly what those are. Most have a whole lot of ifs involved when speaking of what it may lead to.

[RiverDog]

Nothing in those quotes effect the veracity of what I said.

And BTW, I think for the most part acknowledgement of what is transpiring and the possible ramifications is exactly what those are. Most have a whole lot of ifs involved when speaking of what it may lead to.

Neither you nor I can make an accurate interpretation of words or phrases when all we have to rely on is text. But I stand by what I said, that the impression I am getting from the jest of this discussion is that some of you folks appear a little more anxious than the facts would justify.

Despite Mitch McConnell's plea, it sounds like there might be a Republican Senator, Tuberville of Alabama, that could force Congress to take a vote on accepting the Electoral College vote. More drama.

[RiverDog]

Some of you have been talking about a possible revolution, that there's going to be blood flowing down the streets like rain water, and I simply am not seeing it.

I don't see it happening either, as I've said, though asf think it's possible.

It's actually quieter than I thought it would be. I was expecting protests and even some violence to occur during or after the vote, particularly in Michigan, where there was an armed demonstration, a thwarted kidnapping plot, etc. It's a pleasant surprise. Hopefully it's a precursor of a relatively tranquil transfer of power, at least compared to expectations.

[Aseahawkfan]

Without the support of the Senate, Trump and the Republicans have no path to revolution or to force a redo of the election. My paranoia meter dropped substantially when McConnell killed any chance of the Senate forcing a crazy split. Trump can't do jacksquat without McConnell. He can whine, cry, b****, tweet, rant, and whatever he wants. If even McConnell is willing to vote to affirm the electoral vote along with the Republican whip, Romney, Murkowski, Collins, and many other Senate Republicans who won't stand with Trump's attempt at a coup, then Trump has nothing. He will be tossed out of The White House like trash if he tries to squat looking crazier than ever.

So all we have to really worry about at this point is some small group of crazies doing something violent and evil. I'm pretty sure the Secret Service and F.B.I. are all over that.

[RiverDog]

Without the support of the Senate, Trump and the Republicans have no path to revolution or to force a redo of the election. My paranoia meter dropped substantially when McConnell killed any chance of the Senate forcing a crazy split. Trump can't do jacksquat without McConnell. He can whine, cry, b****, tweet, rant, and whatever he wants. If even McConnell is willing to vote to affirm the electoral vote along with the Republican whip, Romney, Murkowski, Collins, and many other Senate Republicans who won't stand with Trump's attempt at a coup, then Trump has nothing. He will be tossed out of The White House like trash if he tries to squat looking crazier than ever.

So all we have to really worry about at this point is some small group of crazies doing something violent and evil. I'm pretty sure the Secret Service and F.B.I. are all over that.

There's rumors coming out of the White House that Trump is still thinking about not leaving the White House on Jan. 20th. I find that pretty hard to believe, but on the other hand, nothing should surprise me about Trump anymore. They've also said that he won't attend Biden's inauguration, which is a little more believable. As a matter of fact, I'd be surprised if he does.

[I-5]

Does anyone here have any doubt left that Trump is going to try to burn the country down before/if he leaves office? This week it's a huge hack coming from Russia with not even a comment, and the new Pentagon hacks trying to slow down the transition of key info to the president elect...what will it be next week?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspected-russian-hack-was-it-epic-cyber-attack-or-spy-n1251766

[c_hawkbob]

Yup, scorched earth, just like Saddam leaving Kuwait.

[RiverDog]

Does anyone here have any doubt left that Trump is going to try to burn the country down before/if he leaves office? This week it's a huge hack coming from Russia with not even a comment, and the new Pentagon hacks trying to slow down the transition of key info to the president elect...what will it be next week?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/suspected-russian-hack-was-it-epic-cyber-attack-or-spy-n1251766

I'm not sure how much is intentional and how much is due to his inattentiveness as the man truly doesn't give a rip. He's bragged about the vaccine so you would think that he'd be out there encouraging others to take it yet he hasn't said a word. He hasn't said boo about the coronavirus relief legislation or the possible government shutdown. All he does is tweet about how the election was stolen from him and how Hunter Biden is a sleaze bag.

We know that Trump is a very petty, get even type of guy and remembers how, at least in his eyes, the Dems made his transition difficult so he's not going to do anything to make things easier for them. It's always been a me vs. them game for him.

[NorthHawk]

He's a 74 year old with a spoiled brat sense of entitlement who nobody has ever said no to so he's having a temper tantrum/pouting session.
The problem is the damage it might be doing to the country and possibly the many lives it will affect. I hope those under him (the people he
calls the "deep state") can hold it together until Biden takes over, but they're under a lot of pressure with no help from the recent appointees
and the hacking that's going on. Not to mention the virus and it's implications.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/a ... 816266.php

This hack is extremely scary bad. Trump dismissing it is another Treasonous act by a clear russian asset. In other news trumps hand picked acting sec of defense responded by yanking all intelligence briefings away from Bidens transition team the past 2 days with a hack being described as an "act of war".

Its like Im watching a bite be taken out of the apple called america and its rotten to the core

[I-5]

I'm not sure how much is intentional and how much is due to his inattentiveness as the man truly doesn't give a rip. He's bragged about the vaccine so you would think that he'd be out there encouraging others to take it yet he hasn't said a word.

RIv, he's giving us every clue except spelling it out for us that not only does he not care about americans, but he doesn't care if Russia benefits, except going as far as to say that is his explicit intention. Does he have to produce a memo to convince you of his intentions, or do you believe everything is coincidental with him?

Like you always say (and you're not wrong), Trump isn't that smart. True. But Putin is that smart. If Trump is taking orders from Putin (I believe he is, either directly or through a channel), then it's not hard at all to understand his actions that seemingly make no sense, like replacing key Pentagon personnel during these last few weeks, turning the other way during the largest breach of US military info, widely known to be from Russia but Trump insisting it's China...this is years after trying to lobby the G7 to accept Russia (why would he do that???), meeting in person with Putin without any US officials present in the room including the official stenographer, having a private meeting in the Oval Office with Lavrov, again without US media. The list goes on.

[RiverDog]

RIv, he's giving us every clue except spelling it out for us that not only does he not care about americans, but he doesn't care if Russia benefits, except going as far as to say that is his explicit intention. Does he have to produce a memo to convince you of his intentions, or do you believe everything is coincidental with him?

I believe that Trump cares about himself first, his family members second, and various other Americans third. I don't think he'd move the Russians up to the #2 or #3 spot, but who knows. All I know for sure is that #1 won't change.

[I-5]

I believe that Trump cares about himself first, his family members second, and various other Americans third. I don't think he'd move the Russians up to the #2 or #3 spot, but who knows. All I know for sure is that #1 won't change.

Again, you're not wrong - Trump cares only about himself, then his family, and so on. But what if caring about himself first means he somehow is being leveraged by Putin? Don't you think he would choose himself over his country?

[RiverDog]

Again, you're not wrong - Trump cares only about himself, then his family, and so on. But what if caring about himself first means he somehow is being leveraged by Putin? Don't you think he would choose himself over his country?

I think that's essentially what I said, that Trump would ALWAYS put himself over his country, his wife, kids, anyone and everyone. He's as self centered of a person as I've ever seen publicly.

And as I said earlier, if Putin does have some sort of leverage over him, which I think likely, it has something to do with money as that's all Trump has ever cared about.

[NorthHawk]

I've thought for a long time that Trump is angling to get a hotel in downtown Moscow. How better to curry favor than to make Putin's goals easier?
As well, Putin controls the Russian Mafia and it might turn out that Trumps loans are via that crime syndicate in some form - maybe from Putin himself.

[I-5]

Sounds like we are all on the same page now finally....and if true, he is the ultimate traitor.

[RiverDog]

Sounds like we are all on the same page now finally....and if true, he is the ultimate traitor.

Of course, we're only speculating. But there has to be some sort of angle between Trump and Putin/Russia.

[c_hawkbob]

Making the round on twitter:

[c_hawkbob]

... oh yeah, LOL.

Yes from Qanon and no I don't for a second believe it but I expect to see a whole lot fewer people at the gym next Saturday.

[RiverDog]

Serious question: Any idea why they'd wait until after Christmas?

And secondly, does this mean that I need to stock up on toilet paper?

[c_hawkbob]

No idea. And yes. Just not from here, get your own damn toilet paper.

[Aseahawkfan]

There is no evidence whatsoever that Trump is giving information to the Russians to hack our system. I am so tired of crazy, deluded Americans pushing ridiculous theories. Man, this nation has gone nuts.

Trump has nothing to do with the Solarwinds company or software that was hacked. Zero.

If you have read on this hack, it has impacted everyone using the Solar Winds security software including Tech Giants like Microsoft, Cisco, and many others.

https://www.cnet.com/news/microsoft-head-calls-solarwinds-hack-act-of-recklessness-what-you-need-to-know/

What the hell does Trump have to do with Solar Winds software having a security flaw in it? Stop reaching for reasons to hate Trump when there are plenty without the delusional Russian BS.

https://www.wired.com/story/russia-solarwinds-hack-roundup/

Our intelligence agencies are tracking the hack. If Trump is somehow involved as some want to believe, then they'll find out. Sorry, Trump doesn't have that much power to hide all his doings as the most public figure in the United States and much of the world if he is somehow delivering information to the Russians. He couldn't even hide a phone call to the Ukrainian President, much less back channel information to Putin. Even if his sycophantic followers are buying into his election fraud BS, be assured that the C.I.A., F.B.I., and our various other organizations with contacts all over the world are not drinking the Trump kool-aid to the point of being asleep at the wheel as Trump passes confidential information to Russia.

I know this is a trying time. Hell, not even I am immune this damn paranoia. But this hack as far as we know given available information was widespread due to so many companies and the government using security software from a company called Solar Winds. It doesn't have anything to do with Trump other than the dumbass not taking it seriously like everything else since he lost the election. He doesn't care any more. He lost. His cabinet has been having to talk him back into paying attention for a month and pretending the cares about anything other than his butthurt ego after losing.

[Aseahawkfan]

Of course, we're only speculating. But there has to be some sort of angle between Trump and Putin/Russia.

They're still trying to figure out what happened, what was taken, what was modified, and more importantly what we should do about it. I'm pretty sure Trump isn't helping much. This kind of stuff is clearly over his head. He's only worried about the fact he lost he election and no one is helping him hold onto the White House.

As far as I see it, Trump will leave office on January 20th. America will be fine. Trump won't have anything going on with Russia one way or the other. He'll go back to being Trump. Nothing much will come of all these allegations and attempt by the media to make Trump into a Russian puppet. They'll drop the narrative once he's gone.

1. Professional accounting firms do Trump's taxes. If there were irregularities of a criminal nature in his taxes or finances, they would have already been discovered and Trump prosecuted. They would have been tracked years ago. He would have been taken down for being compromised by the Russian ages ago. But guess what: these Russian charges only conveniently came to light when he won the presidency from Hilary Clinton. Imagine that. For the 50 years prior there was zero talk of Trump being a Russian asset.

But hey, I've heard Biden is in China's pocket according to Trump supporters. So I guess it is par for the course. The Trump supporters are going to continue to build evidence against Joe Biden and Hunter Biden for the next four years because it's pretty obvious Americans are an easy people to fool and manipulate. When you see a group of citizens reaching this level of gullibility, might as well keep the party going and vilify the next guy in office as a puppet of a foreign power. It obviously works very well with minimal evidence required other than the "faith."

2. It's not that easy to spy in America, even for a rank and file guy. I think we've had a handful of high profile spy infiltrations in America, usually at lower level positions within agencies. I don't even think we have Congressional members who have been infiltrated. If they haven't been able to infiltrate at the Federal government level on a lower level than the president, not sure why they would be able to at the presidential level.

If I prove wrong, I will admit it and post a big old post saying I'm wrong.

As of now this Trump as a Russian puppet is just media fabricated BS. I don't see any major media organizations attributing this hack to Trump or anything of the kind. It's a big hack that our intelligence is fairly certain is Russian due to a security flaw in security software made by Solar Winds. It's part of the cyber-security game worldwide. We'll see what comes of it. It is very early in the process of figuring things out.

[Aseahawkfan]

Solar Winds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SolarWinds

The company that makes the software with the security flaw. Give it a read. Gives a good summation of a worldwide hack. I guess Trump is giving information to hack the UK, Microsoft, and everyone.

Hey, maybe I5 still start posting articles that Trump is The Anti-Christ. That's the level of power it would take for Trump to work with Russia to be involved in this hack.

If you think this company will recover and you have the risk appetite for material events causing a stock drop, here is the public listing for Solarwinds: https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/SWI?p=SWI

It dropped almost 23 to 14 dropping 39%. If it recovers, that is good upside.

[RiverDog]

Of course, we're only speculating. But there has to be some sort of angle between Trump and Putin/Russia.

They're still trying to figure out what happened, what was taken, what was modified, and more importantly what we should do about it. I'm pretty sure Trump isn't helping much. This kind of stuff is clearly over his head. He's only worried about the fact he lost he election and no one is helping him hold onto the White House.

I wasn't speaking of Trump's role in the hack so much as I was his reaction to it, along with other incidents over the past 4 years where Trump has openly favored the Russians and/or Putin. Why else would he float, with absolutely no evidence to support it, this theory of his that it wasn't the Russians, it was the Chinese?

As far as I see it, Trump will leave office on January 20th. America will be fine. Trump won't have anything going on with Russia one way or the other. He'll go back to being Trump. Nothing much will come of all these allegations and attempt by the media to make Trump into a Russian puppet. They'll drop the narrative once he's gone.

I'm going to stop short of saying that "America will be fine" come 1/20. We're in the middle of a pandemic with thousands dying each day and now I'm reading where people are ignoring advice and traveling for the holidays. By the time Inauguration Day rolls around, it could be really ugly, and Trump is the single most responsible person for this tragedy. But otherwise, I agree with you.

[Aseahawkfan]

I wasn't speaking of Trump's role in the hack so much as I was his reaction to it, along with other incidents over the past 4 years where Trump has openly favored the Russians and/or Putin. Why else would he float, with absolutely no evidence to support it, this theory of his that it wasn't the Russians, it was the Chinese?

Because he is against the Chinese and wants to blame everything he can on China. Trump stated he was favorable to the Russians before he entered office. He has married two women from that part of the world that were formerly aligned with Russia. He likes Eastern European and Soviet nations that aren't Muslim. The man's liked that area of the world since the 80s. Doesn't mean he's some kind of traitor or spy. Just means if he had a choice, he would do business with them. He obviously likes woman of the ancestry of that area. Also doesn't hurt that Russians are "white." If the Europeans don't want to come to America, then plenty of white, racist Russians willing to come. It's kind of a nasty little open secret that Russians and Eastern Europeans have a lot of racists amongst them because Americans don't much keep up with what's going on in that area of the world. They're so focused on racism here, they don't realize how many other nations are racist as well.

Not as though he is alone. BP, Exxon, and even McDonalds do business with Russia. There is this weird lack awareness that we have been friends with Russia for a long time, since the fall of the Soviet Union. It is only since Putin annexed Crimea that Russia and American relations have fallen off a cliff.

Even some of our closest European allies like Germany do business with Russia, heavy business.

Are you going to assume every American who likes Russia and would like to have a good relationship with Russia is some kind of bad guy or terrible person? Because that list is longer than people think it is.

Suffice it to say I'll change my view if I see more evidence. Maybe the smoking gun will be discovered after he leaves office, but I doubt it. But right now Trump seems like a guy who personally likes Russia and would like America to have a good relationship with them, but doesn't have the support or juice to make it happen. But I don't think Putin has anything on him. I'm still not sure why Trump can tell all the powerful people in America to F off, but somehow he's gonna respond to Putin trying to pressure him.

What more can Putin have? They have Trump's financial records for prosecution. They already have him on video saying awful things. They've already caught him banging pornstars and paying them off. He's already tried to make a call with Ukraine. They crawled up his behind for talking with Russians including prosecuting Flynn and Manafort for their crimes with Russia. It's not like he needed to become president and make some kind of deal with Russia to build a hotel there. There are far easier ways to make that deal. There is zero way that Putin or anyone else could have predicted Trump would win the Republican nomination much less the presidency. How do you predict that?

Can you think of anything that Putin would have on Trump worse than what we know about the man? Do you think Putin could have predicted Trump's victory when even these pollsters couldn't? Are Putin and Trump that much smarter than everyone else that Putin has some secret on Trump worse than what the media has already uncovered? I find that hard to believe myself.

Trump has even been painted as a pedophile for hanging out with Epstein and been accused of rape and allowing sleeping with underage girls. The left wing media has hammered Trump so hard with so much, not even sure what Putin could use as leverage.

I'm going to stop short of saying that "America will be fine" come 1/20. We're in the middle of a pandemic with thousands dying each day and now I'm reading where people are ignoring advice and traveling for the holidays. By the time Inauguration Day rolls around, it could be really ugly, and Trump is the single most responsible person for this tragedy. But otherwise, I agree with you.

I'm speaking more long-term. The effects of Trump won't be felt much longer than when he leaves office. Taking a few days off and the Senate assuring America it wasn't going to send us off the rails has allowed me to regain my composure. I was starting to lose it for a minute there. If Hawktawk lives in a constant state of paranoia like I was experiencing when I thought the Senate was going to send us into Civil War, then I feel bad for him. Paranoia can be real when you have a loon like this in office taking incredibly insane measures to try to hold on to power with the support of such a sizeable percentage of the population including possibly the Senate. I'm glad the Supreme Court and Republican Senators are rational and thoughtful. These checks and balances installed by The Founders are working. Maybe the Senators are more rational and thoughtful because they have to appeal to an entire State to get elected, whereas the smaller the area you are elected in the more tolerance for crazy is allowed if crazy is the prevailing culture of the area.

Yeah. I must finally agree with you that in America Trump is the person most responsible for this level of death. His ignorance, unwillingness to take national measures, and general disregard for this virus has caused the most damage of any American given his position. I'm surprised he didn't pay a greater price for it in the polls. Which as we've debated I think has more to do with the Democrats unwillingness to admit they have a lot of terrible policies and actors that seem worse to a lot of Americans even to the point of voting for a long during a global pandemic. Doesn't seem like the Democrats see the problem with their positions and unwillingness to admit the problems inherent with them, but hey, I can't claim the Republicans are any better given this Trump Supporter showing.

But the most responsible people for this pandemic in America and worldwide are in China. Since we're going by presidents, then Xi Jinping since he heads that nation. The Communists allowing people to leave after Chinese New Year, their control of information to protect their economy, and their unwillingness to take greater measures to protect the world as well as seeming pressuring of the WHO to withhold or alter information is the single most responsible entity for this pandemic.

[Aseahawkfan]

That does kind of make me laugh at this point. I can see Putin trying to use leverage against Trump.

Putin: If you don't do as I say Trump, I will release information that we talked.

Trump: Give it a try. America already thinks we talk. My followers won't care. Democrats already tried that on me, didn't work. So give it your best shot.

Putin: I will release information you re a racist.

Trump: Already been done. Democrats have done that. I'm the most racist president in history. You got nothing.

Putin: I'll tell them you're a pedophile, that you rape women, and are terrible to women.

Trump: You sure don't pay attention to the news do you Vladimir? You got nothing.

Putin: I'll threaten to release your tax returns and financial records.

Trump: You really, really don't watch the news do you? They have my financial records. They know I paid $750 in taxes for the last 10 years. No one cares.


The American left wing media have thrown so much at Trump, what exactly does Putin have left to blackmail him with that hasn't been found in 4 plus years of the Democrats and other extremely powerful people with contacts all over the world crawling up Trump's ass with a microscope. Is Putin that much smarter than the rest of the world? Is the super evil genius that can outsmart both parties and all those powerful Americans with our powerful technology and intelligence organizations? Everyone on here pretty much considers Trump dumb. He sure seems to inspire a lot of confidence in his ability to beat the system, hide all his worst crimes with near absolute certainty from everyone but Putin, and destroy the nation for a guy this dumb.

But hey, 70% of Trump supporters believe he won the election, even with near zero evidence and Republicans who had to state in public they voted for Trump while ensuring a fair election like Gabriel Sterling, a Republican who assured Trump the election was fair. But hey, that's America right now. Truth is optional from the presidency on down.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... d=msedgdhp

Asea you dont get it. Not many think Trump is personally responsible for the hack. Its his denial, his covering for russia that makes him a traitor to america like for the last 5 years he's covered for them, bowed down to Putin. Now hes talking martial law with a felon former general he just pardoned for covering up his own crimes present in the white house meeting .

Question. What if trump declares martial law? Does the military remove him? do some of them go along? I have a hard time believing they wouldnt.

Were not fine. the hack isn't fine. The president is a lunatic. America has never been in greater potential peril. Clearly the 25th amendment is toilet paper.

[RiverDog]

I wasn't speaking of Trump's role in the hack so much as I was his reaction to it, along with other incidents over the past 4 years where Trump has openly favored the Russians and/or Putin. Why else would he float, with absolutely no evidence to support it, this theory of his that it wasn't the Russians, it was the Chinese?

Because he is against the Chinese and wants to blame everything he can on China. Trump stated he was favorable to the Russians before he entered office. He has married two women from that part of the world that were formerly aligned with Russia. He likes Eastern European and Soviet nations that aren't Muslim.

I don't think it's that simple. Women aside, Trump doesn't give me the impression that he 'likes' anyone unless that someone has something to offer him. I still believe there is some other underlying motivation besides just a personal liking of the area or its people. And FYI, I'm fully aware that a lot of American companies do business with Russia as they do in scores of other countries around the globe. My former employer has production facilities in both Russia and China.

I'm going to stop short of saying that "America will be fine" come 1/20. We're in the middle of a pandemic with thousands dying each day and now I'm reading where people are ignoring advice and traveling for the holidays. By the time Inauguration Day rolls around, it could be really ugly, and Trump is the single most responsible person for this tragedy. But otherwise, I agree with you.

I'm speaking more long-term. The effects of Trump won't be felt much longer than when he leaves office. Taking a few days off and the Senate assuring America it wasn't going to send us off the rails has allowed me to regain my composure. I was starting to lose it for a minute there. If Hawktawk lives in a constant state of paranoia like I was experiencing when I thought the Senate was going to send us into Civil War, then I feel bad for him. Paranoia can be real when you have a loon like this in office taking incredibly insane measures to try to hold on to power with the support of such a sizeable percentage of the population including possibly the Senate. I'm glad the Supreme Court and Republican Senators are rational and thoughtful. These checks and balances installed by The Founders are working. Maybe the Senators are more rational and thoughtful because they have to appeal to an entire State to get elected, whereas the smaller the area you are elected in the more tolerance for crazy is allowed if crazy is the prevailing culture of the area.

I've been saying all along that Trump won't cause any long term damage. We're going to have an awful time getting over this pandemic that he's made much worse but once summer rolls around, we should be pretty much back to normal.

Yeah. I must finally agree with you that in America Trump is the person most responsible for this level of death. His ignorance, unwillingness to take national measures, and general disregard for this virus has caused the most damage of any American given his position. I'm surprised he didn't pay a greater price for it in the polls. Which as we've debated I think has more to do with the Democrats unwillingness to admit they have a lot of terrible policies and actors that seem worse to a lot of Americans even to the point of voting for a long during a global pandemic. Doesn't seem like the Democrats see the problem with their positions and unwillingness to admit the problems inherent with them, but hey, I can't claim the Republicans are any better given this Trump Supporter showing.

There's no doubt about it. You can compare our response to that of Canada's. Take the northern tier of our country, places like Minnesota, the Dakotas, Montana, and Idaho, and compare it with Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba. Climate is the same or worse, population density very similar, etc. He's made mask wearing a political statement, encouraged governors to open up prematurely, promoted wild conspiracy theories, told his followers that it's no more dangerous than the flu, and so on.

I, too, was shocked that so many people failed to recognize Trump's multiple failings, but I do think that the Democrats shot themselves in the foot by either allowing them to be painted or outright endorsing socialistic policies/liberal thought, the pack the court plan that Biden didn't denounce, the defund the police and cancel culture movements associated with liberals, their energy policy, the green new deal, free college, etc. America simply doesn't change as fast as some people want it to. Progressives within the party are hell bent for leather, shoot for the moon types, and Biden didn't distance himself from them near enough.

But the most responsible people for this pandemic in America and worldwide are in China. Since we're going by presidents, then Xi Jinping since he heads that nation. The Communists allowing people to leave after Chinese New Year, their control of information to protect their economy, and their unwillingness to take greater measures to protect the world as well as seeming pressuring of the WHO to withhold or alter information is the single most responsible entity for this pandemic.

There's a lot of countries, organizations, and individuals with blood on their hands, the Chinese being one, particularly because the virus got its genesis in that country. But even if China been more forthcoming and given us more access to information, Trump wouldn't have believed them anyway.

We have to give the Chinese some credit. They were the first to discover the genetic code of the virus and shared their information with various scientists around the world, which is one of the major reasons why we were able to develop a vaccine in the amount of time we did.

[RiverDog]

Question. What if trump declares martial law? Does the military remove him? do some of them go along? I have a hard time believing they wouldnt.

It's ridiculous to speculate over something so absurd. Trump isn't going to declare martial law and even if he did, there's almost no chance of the military obeying an order like that. We might as well speculate what would happen if a dinosaur killing meteor struck the Earth.

Hang in there, guy! We're one month from having our hemorrhoid removed.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2020/ ... mp-brushi/


Right from our spokesman review. The Trumpanzees up in that part of the country aren't used to seeing that on the front page. Reporters will probably get death threats .

Having my antenna on high alert isn't living in a state of paranoia. Its you all living in a state of denial.I am mentally prepared for any outcome , hoping for the best but very alarmed.

We have a sitting US president discussing martial law and repeatedly having to be "talked out of it'. What the hell does that mean? Talked out of it? Its the same thing they said about attacking Iran. "talked him out of it". Well thank goodness, that's reassuring .

Does he have the authority to make the command or doesn't he? Hes increasingly delusional, more unfit than ever, dangerous. He's got the crazy woman Sydney powell in the oval office, Mike Flynn the pardoned Felon on newsmax advocation martial law from the OVAL OFFICE OF THE PEOPLE'S HOUSE!!!. This is worse than any espionage movie about a president we could come up with in hollywood.

The Arizona republican chair is also calling for Trump to "cross the rubicon". The secretary of the Army and Chairman Mark Milley have felt the need to say the military has no role here but again... What does the constitution say? Who would have ever believed we would even be having the discussion 6 weeks after an election in the USA.Who would believe the military would ever have to say this about an election which its had to do several times already.

It's hardly being paranoid , simply wide awake in amazement at what i'm seeing happen in America right now.

[I-5]

Hang in there, guy! We're one month from having our hemorrhoid removed.

I think you said the same thing about Nov 3, then Dec 14....