A Peaceful Transition

[RiverDog]

Hang in there, guy! We're one month from having our hemorrhoid removed.

I

think you said the same thing about Nov 3, then Dec 14....

I didn't say hang in there for one more month, nor did I mention anything about hemorrhoids.

[Hawktawk]

Hang in there, guy! We're one month from having our hemorrhoid removed.

I think you said the same thing about Nov 3, then Dec 14....

Yeah he did say that I 5.

Crazy woman Sydney Powell was back at the White House Sunday night after the shouting match attended by Trump, Powell, Flynn, Mark Meadows, Pat Cipollone among others on Friday. The Chief of staff and the Attorney had reportedly "talked Trump out of" martial law Today his only scheduled meeting was with his hand picked sycophant who is the acting SIXTH secretary of defense.

I'm glad RD, asea etc feel all warm and fuzzy. The man knows he's probably spending the rest of his life in prison anyway and for the next 30 days he is the most powerful man on the planet. IMO its already been a terrible tragedy for democracy no matter what happens.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't think it's that simple. Women aside, Trump doesn't give me the impression that he 'likes' anyone unless that someone has something to offer him. I still believe there is some other underlying motivation besides just a personal liking of the area or its people. And FYI, I'm fully aware that a lot of American companies do business with Russia as they do in scores of other countries around the globe. My former employer has production facilities in both Russia and China.

Well, until I see something, I just don't see how Putin could have predicted Trump would win the presidency including both Houses of Congress. I see no reason to believe that if Trump could be black-mailed or manipulated, it would be by Putin rather than people in America who are also very powerful and very capable of getting dirt on people to force them to comply. Hey, if Russia pulled off the biggest coup in history by beating the most powerful military and intelligence services in the world to put a puppet into the White House, then kudos to them. They're a lot more powerful than they appear. I guess their ability to predict and manipulate foreign elections far exceeds ours or any nation in history.

And Trump sure picked a roundabout method for getting a hotel in Moscow if that was his goal. It sure seems like running for president and making some kind of exchange with Putin seems a lot more difficult and risky than just making a deal to put a hotel in Moscow.

We'll see in time if anyone proves this Moscow Candidate theory that even you seem to be buying into now. If they do, I'll add that to my list of reasons to hate Trump. I hate that mfer right now. Let's just say if I had the power to do so, he would be stopped.

I, too, was shocked that so many people failed to recognize Trump's multiple failings, but I do think that the Democrats shot themselves in the foot by either allowing them to be painted or outright endorsing socialistic policies/liberal thought, the pack the court plan that Biden didn't denounce, the defund the police and cancel culture movements associated with liberals, their energy policy, the green new deal, free college, etc. America simply doesn't change as fast as some people want it to. Progressives within the party are hell bent for leather, shoot for the moon types, and Biden didn't distance himself from them near enough.

What can you do. People are pretty insane right now. I know some don't to care to acknowledge the crazy left. I literally talk to people on the left who tell me they think the rioting, looting, and the like is acceptable to them because they believe it is ok for someone to tear everything down if they are "excluded" from the success of the nation.

I'm at the point where I hate talking to people right now. I don't even care what political party at this point. I hear so much nuttiness out of the mouths of Americans right now from the idiot at the top to the people justifying the worst behavior with this looting and anti-cop sentiment to this election fraud nonsense. This is full on crazy land right now. I'm used to some level of crazy, but this is getting under my skin.

There's a lot of countries, organizations, and individuals with blood on their hands, the Chinese being one, particularly because the virus got its genesis in that country. But even if China been more forthcoming and given us more access to information, Trump wouldn't have believed them anyway.

We have to give the Chinese some credit. They were the first to discover the genetic code of the virus and shared their information with various scientists around the world, which is one of the major reasons why we were able to develop a vaccine in the amount of time we did.

The world still suffered because the China under-represented this disease. I'm not sure if you're starting to engage in revisionist history or what not. But never forget the main issue with the Chinese is their numbers have got to be false. Those numbers made everyone think this virus was not near as bad as it was. You cannot tell me that you believe China arrested this virus at 80000 cases and 3000 dead with 1.4 billion people. But everywhere else just blew up including nations 1/20th their size.

They lied. They tried to cover up the extent of this virus. They are even worse about lying than Trump. I hope you are not thinking Trump is suddenly worse than lying ass China when you couldn't trust China to tell the truth on almost anything. They are an information controlling and lying country on a level Trump can't possibly equal because he lacks that level of control due to our free press. And I hope you never forget that truth. China is a 100 times worse than Trump at lying. And far more responsible. If they had reported accurate numbers and an accurate assessment of this virus as well as locking down China earlier rather than saving their economy, the world death toll would be far, far, far lower.

China still listing 95000 cases and 4700 deaths. 1.4 billion people. Location of the first outbreak of the virus. Somehow by population size near the best containment of the virus in the world. I know it's a been a while, but never forget they started this virus with a bunch of lies fed to the W.H.O. that led much of the world to take this virus lightly.

[RiverDog]

Well, until I see something, I just don't see how Putin could have predicted Trump would win the presidency including both Houses of Congress. I see no reason to believe that if Trump could be black-mailed or manipulated, it would be by Putin rather than people in America who are also very powerful and very capable of getting dirt on people to force them to comply. Hey, if Russia pulled off the biggest coup in history by beating the most powerful military and intelligence services in the world to put a puppet into the White House, then kudos to them. They're a lot more powerful than they appear. I guess their ability to predict and manipulate foreign elections far exceeds ours or any nation in history.

I haven't seen any firm evidence that there's a definite connection between Trump and Putin/Russia. All I know is that I smell a fish.

I, too, was shocked that so many people failed to recognize Trump's multiple failings, but I do think that the Democrats shot themselves in the foot by either allowing them to be painted or outright endorsing socialistic policies/liberal thought, the pack the court plan that Biden didn't denounce, the defund the police and cancel culture movements associated with liberals, their energy policy, the green new deal, free college, etc. America simply doesn't change as fast as some people want it to. Progressives within the party are hell bent for leather, shoot for the moon types, and Biden didn't distance himself from them near enough.

What can you do. People are pretty insane right now. I know some don't to care to acknowledge the crazy left. I literally talk to people on the left who tell me they think the rioting, looting, and the like is acceptable to them because they believe it is ok for someone to tear everything down if they are "excluded" from the success of the nation.

I'm at the point where I hate talking to people right now. I don't even care what political party at this point. I hear so much nuttiness out of the mouths of Americans right now from the idiot at the top to the people justifying the worst behavior with this looting and anti-cop sentiment to this election fraud nonsense. This is full on crazy land right now. I'm used to some level of crazy, but this is getting under my skin.

I haven't been talking to anyone in person. Between this forum, a few social media contacts, and my 82 year old friend whose only connection to the 21st century is email, I haven't spoken to anyone, face-to-face, in the past 2 months and only two people since Labor Day. We really are hunkered down.

There's a lot of countries, organizations, and individuals with blood on their hands, the Chinese being one, particularly because the virus got its genesis in that country. But even if China been more forthcoming and given us more access to information, Trump wouldn't have believed them anyway.

We have to give the Chinese some credit. They were the first to discover the genetic code of the virus and shared their information with various scientists around the world, which is one of the major reasons why we were able to develop a vaccine in the amount of time we did.

The world still suffered because the China under-represented this disease. I'm not sure if you're starting to engage in revisionist history or what not.

Oh, I absolutely agree that China has blood on its hands, more so than any one country. I'm not arguing with you one little bit. But their scientists did identify the genetic code of the coronavirus and shared their discovery with other scientists around the world, which helped expedite the manufacture of a vaccine. It's one of the few things we can credit them for.

[I-5]

I didn't say hang in there for one more month, nor did I mention anything about hemorrhoids.

I know you sometimes like to drag out literal semantic references that that are irrelevant to the topic, but you (and a few others) did predict Trump and/or the party would undergo some kind of transition/change/acceptance (again, please don't get semantic on me again, which I know you want to), post Nov 3 election...and again, you called out Dec 14 is a date that would signal the end of whatever shenanigans...and now you're saying hang in there until inauguration. Do you really think Trump will stop trying to start a fire if he thinks he can save his own hide? He still has sway over the party, by the way they're cowering underneath him. I can't predict what happens leading up to inauguration or post inauguration....except to expect more and more dangerous rhetoric. I'm sure if he thought he could pull off Martial Law, he would be instituting it right now. Flynn thinks he can.

[RiverDog]

I know you sometimes like to drag out literal semantic references that that are irrelevant to the topic, but you (and a few others) did predict Trump and/or the party would undergo some kind of transition/change/acceptance (again, please don't get semantic on me again, which I know you want to), post Nov 3 election...and again, you called out Dec 14 is a date that would signal the end of whatever shenanigans...and now you're saying hang in there until inauguration. Do you really think Trump will stop trying to start a fire if he thinks he can save his own hide? He still has sway over the party, by the way they're cowering underneath him. I can't predict what happens leading up to inauguration or post inauguration....except to expect more and more dangerous rhetoric. I'm sure if he thought he could pull off Martial Law, he would be instituting it right now. Flynn thinks he can.

I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish in your recent remarks. I wasn't directing my "hang in there" comment to you so I don't know why you've chosen to make such an issue of it. I was directing it to a rather flamboyant poster whom has become a genuine friend of mine and a person with whom I happen to share many of the same thoughts with, and you're using it to make me out to be some sort charlatan by my using "semantic references that are irrelevant to the topic".

There was no need for that first sentence in your post. If you have a point to make, then make it.

Perhaps I am getting a little too thin skinned in my old age or that this shut down is affecting my state of mind more than I realize.

[Hawktawk]

I have no idea what you are trying to accomplish in your recent remarks. I wasn't directing my "hang in there" comment to you so I don't know why you've chosen to make such an issue of it. I was directing it to a rather flamboyant poster whom has become a genuine friend of mine and a person with whom I happen to share many of the same thoughts with, and you're using it to make me out to be some sort charlatan by my using "semantic references that are irrelevant to the topic".

There was no need for that first sentence in your post. If you have a point to make, then make it.

Perhaps I am getting a little too thin skinned in my old age or that this shut down is affecting my state of mind more than I realize.

Attempts at humor aside Trumps not a hemorrhoid even though what he is is beyond a pain in the ass. he's more what causes them only times 10000. he's an evil bitter mentally ill desperate person who should be removed under the 25th amendment but with pence still attending oval office sedition parties probably aint gonna happen. Red slime is more dangerous than Corona and antifa put together. Might be the end of us all.

[c_hawkbob]

There was no need for that first sentence in your post. If you have a point to make, then make it.

Perhaps I am getting a little too thin skinned in my old age or that this shut down is affecting my state of mind more than I realize.

Sorry Riv but I totally understand what he's talking about. And it's not just about this current conversation either; a person has to be real careful how the try to make a point in a conversation you're involved in because you do have a tendency to contest the death out of a completely ancillary aspect of what someone says and turn the conversation completely away from the primary point. It's what I've tried to explain before about not having the capacity to argue the minutia in depth anymore so I just don't bother sometimes.

You're the most prolific poster here and arguably the most valuable so don't take this as me trying to put a damper on your posting, I'd miss it greatly if I no longer were able to read what you have to say but if you're going to tell someone "If you have a point to make, then make it", allow them to make it and comment on that point rather than taking the conversation off on a tangent.

[I-5]

Bob explained it more articulately than I did. That’s exactly what I mean. I usually end up posting twice as many replies just get through these ancillary arguments based on a specific word choice, and often the main point gets lost. I’ll take responsibility for my part if it happens, because it gets frustrating.

Btw, I also agree with Bob that Riv is probably the most valuable poster, in terms of prolificness and openness to other points of views.

[Aseahawkfan]

This jackass isn't giving up is he. He is taking it to the bully pulpit setting up his big appeal to the American people with bribes of $2000 checks. He loves to sell and sell and sell.

[Aseahawkfan]

I haven't been talking to anyone in person. Between this forum, a few social media contacts, and my 82 year old friend whose only connection to the 21st century is email, I haven't spoken to anyone, face-to-face, in the past 2 months and only two people since Labor Day. We really are hunkered down.

You really went deep. I'm not talking to my own mother right now because I can't listen to this election fraud nonsense and she fully buys into it. In her mind Trump can do no wrong and he was robbed. I can barely talk to one of my friends because he thinks everything Trump is doing is justified including destroying his own party if need be because according to him, "Trump has the right to demand absolutely loyalty because Biden has loyalty from the left wing media blah blah blah." I can't listen to this crap any more. It's starting to eat at me when I listen to this garbage too long. I don't personally believe most of this garbage these two sides believe. I think they're both just a bunch of ideological zealots who continue to pump the other side up wanting to win versus wanting to have a good quality nation.

Oh, I absolutely agree that China has blood on its hands, more so than any one country. I'm not arguing with you one little bit. But their scientists did identify the genetic code of the coronavirus and shared their discovery with other scientists around the world, which helped expedite the manufacture of a vaccine. It's one of the few things we can credit them for.

I read an article on the Chinese scientist who did it. He actually went against the Chinese Communist Party uploading it before they had a chance to lock him down. Brave, smart guy who sounds like he's had to walk the line between doing the right thing in his profession as a virologist and appeasing the Communist Party.

https://time.com/5882918/zhang-yongzhen-interview-china-coronavirus-genome/

Apparently he was studying the virus in a Wuhan lab before it hit. It got sent to him in December or early January. He decoded it and sent it up, but couldn't tell the world how infectious it was because the CCCP was clamping down.

[Aseahawkfan]

I know you sometimes like to drag out literal semantic references that that are irrelevant to the topic, but you (and a few others) did predict Trump and/or the party would undergo some kind of transition/change/acceptance (again, please don't get semantic on me again, which I know you want to), post Nov 3 election...and again, you called out Dec 14 is a date that would signal the end of whatever shenanigans...and now you're saying hang in there until inauguration. Do you really think Trump will stop trying to start a fire if he thinks he can save his own hide? He still has sway over the party, by the way they're cowering underneath him. I can't predict what happens leading up to inauguration or post inauguration....except to expect more and more dangerous rhetoric. I'm sure if he thought he could pull off Martial Law, he would be instituting it right now. Flynn thinks he can.

Well, I believe I said after the electoral college. And McConnell and the Senate did come around.

What surprised me is the Republicans in the House of Representatives standing up for this scumbag. I was wrong on that.

The Supreme Court and military have held in check as Riverdog predicted. I was never personally worried about the Supreme Court as they are an apolitical entity even though some see them as this dangerous political entity and our military has almost always stayed out of the way. They have a code and our military leaders swear an oath to the Constitution and the people, not president. I trust them more than elected officials.

I freely admit I was wrong that this lunatic would give in earlier. He is going for an end game that could lead to Civil War and he doesn't care. He's so self-centered, evil, and narcissistic he would talk himself and his followers into a Civil War and convince them and himself he was doing the right thing. We'll see how it goes when push comes to shove if anyone of substance takes up his call. Right now he's just a saber rattling ass**** with a handful of stupid sycophants taking up his call, while some of his more sensible cabinet members try to talk him down behind the scenes. What a sh**show.

And he is now looking to destroy any Republicans against him including Thune and McConnell. I really want to see if he has the juice to take down two of the most powerful Republicans in the nation. I still think McConnell screwed Trump on purpose by withholding this stimulus bill which might have given Trump the economic bump he needed to flip those swing states.

But hey. you win this argument insofar as this loon is willing to destroy the nation to get his way. You were right. I was wrong. Hopefully everything holds to keep this scumbag from inciting some evil we haven't seen in age like someone assassinating Biden or what not. As far as I'm concerned right now, Trump is a tyrant and an autocrat and the only thing stopping him is a well-written document by a group of farmers, some of them slavers, from a few hundred years ago who decided to construct a country aimed at halting and destroying tyranny that is being put to the test again. It stood multiple times when tested and I believe it will stand again.

The Founders may have screwed up on the slavery issue terribly, but damn that Constitution is built to last and contain tyrants as no document I've ever seen. I've watched these weak ass documents in other nations get easily over-turned whether in the autocratic nations like Turkey, Russia, or North Korea where they pretend they have a Constitution or in nations like England, France, Australia, and New Zealand where they take away rights and property with an easy majority vote and no real resistance. But in America that document stands up strong with lots of resistance to changing it. I'm glad we have it in place as a protection.

[RiverDog]

There was no need for that first sentence in your post. If you have a point to make, then make it.

Perhaps I am getting a little too thin skinned in my old age or that this shut down is affecting my state of mind more than I realize.

Sorry Riv but I totally understand what he's (I-5) talking about. And it's not just about this current conversation either; a person has to be real careful how the try to make a point in a conversation you're involved in because you do have a tendency to contest the death out of a completely ancillary aspect of what someone says and turn the conversation completely away from the primary point. It's what I've tried to explain before about not having the capacity to argue the minutia in depth anymore so I just don't bother sometimes.

You're the most prolific poster here and arguably the most valuable so don't take this as me trying to put a damper on your posting, I'd miss it greatly if I no longer were able to read what you have to say but if you're going to tell someone "If you have a point to make, then make it", allow them to make it and comment on that point rather than taking the conversation off on a tangent.

I take a lot of pride in my posts. I go to great lengths to perfect them, at times making a dozen or so edits, sometimes just to correct simple grammatical and spelling errors. I'm conscious of the fact that absent tones of voice/facial expressions, that it's easy to for text to be misinterpreted, so I'll review my remarks and perform even more edits. I try my best not to offend anyone by name calling or mockery, which was my motivation for the "hang in there" remark as I was feeling that I might have inadvertently insulted another poster and friend.

Although I appreciate the kind words, it's apparent to me that if it takes two out of of our very small group to highlight what is perceived as flaws in my style, they must be pretty serious and counter productive to a good discussion. I post more often than anyone else, so perhaps part of the problem is that I talk too much. Maybe it's time to take a leave of absence.

[NorthHawk]

You don't need to take a leave of absence, you're probably like a lot of us who make a statement thinking it's clear what you are saying and not offensive then
a reply comes in that's a viewpoint you hadn't considered. That's the problem with writing, trying to be clear often ends up muddying the waters of intent.
Unlike speech where all sentences and words aren't examined in detail.

[c_hawkbob]

A leave of absence form the board MVP would suck. I do hope you change your mind.

[Hawktawk]

Stick around Riv. Frankly I find it therapeutic to vent in the OT here. My wife who like me was a lifelong republican till 2016 completely agrees with me but she has heard enough of the rants. I dont vent elsewhere in social media.

I like the banter. I miss the ones who have moved on. Probably couldn't defend their position any longer. Love to see Id hawkman come in here and explain all this I wonder what Burrton would think about how much crap he gave me for referring to Trump as "crazy orange satan" years ago I rest my case unfortunately.

Asea good to see you eat a little crow on how you and so many underestimated the capability of Trump to try to burn down america on the way out the door. Its rare to see people ever admit any position they take is wrong anymore.

Anyway merry Christmas my Hawkshack friends. Prayers for our nation.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.the-sun.com/news/2020044/do ... ite-house/

Question. Can anyone explain how it is still even legal for this president to be spreading these lies from his bully pulpit?

[Aseahawkfan]

I take a lot of pride in my posts. I go to great lengths to perfect them, at times making a dozen or so edits, sometimes just to correct simple grammatical and spelling errors. I'm conscious of the fact that absent tones of voice/facial expressions, that it's easy to for text to be misinterpreted, so I'll review my remarks and perform even more edits. I try my best not to offend anyone by name calling or mockery, which was my motivation for the "hang in there" remark as I was feeling that I might have inadvertently insulted another poster and friend.

Although I appreciate the kind words, it's apparent to me that if it takes two out of of our very small group to highlight what is perceived as flaws in my style, they must be pretty serious and counter productive to a good discussion. I post more often than anyone else, so perhaps part of the problem is that I talk too much. Maybe it's time to take a leave of absence.

Take a break if you feel you need one. I'm taking off likely after January 20th. I came here to talk about Trump. Once he's gone, I'm gone. Politics will go back to be boring hopefully.

I'm more interested in investing. Not many on here seem to invest much or follow the financial news. It's mostly politics and politics is boring without a lunatic in office.

[I-5]

As I said, Riv, you're the most prolific poster and the most open to discussion....that counts for a lot. It's totally up to you to post however frequently or infrequently you want. I was offering constructive criticism, and hope you'll take it that way. It's fun debating you when we get to make our points...and not have to defend every word we said, or vice versa.

Speaking of peaceful transtions, hope everyone has a Merry Christmas!

[RiverDog]

I’ve spent the last couple of days doing a little soul searching regarding what several other posters have said is my tendency to “contest the death out of a completely ancillary aspect”, “taking the conversation off on a tangent”, and “drag out literal semantic references that that are irrelevant to the topic”. After some careful thought and reflection, here is my response:

If anyone doesn't like a particular aspect of my posting style, then as Vladimir Putin might say “Tough beeshitski!”. I am not changing the way I make my points for any poster or posters simply because they’re afraid they might be led off on a tangent. It is not necessary to reply to the entirety of my comments, so if I happen to write something that another poster thinks is irrelevant or off topic, simply delete that part from my quote that is deemed inappropriate or irrelevant and reply to that which you want to discuss. It’s not that difficult. As a matter of fact, it's not necessary to reply at all. I don’t complain about other's tendencies (with my apologies to Hawktalk) and would appreciate it if others would just suck it up and deal with whatever it is they don’t like about me or my musings in what ever manner they choose.

If you wish to discuss politics or other worldly matters, then let’s have at it. But if anything is a “completely ancillary aspect” of our discussions, it’s each other’s personal tendencies. There will be no further comment from me on this matter as I have no desire to sit here and become the subject of dissection and ridicule by other posters even if its offered under the guise of a "friendly suggestion."

Having said that, I regard all the regular posters in this forum as highly intelligent individuals and consider each one to be personal friends of mine. I look forward to our continued relationship.

Merry Christmas everyone!

[c_hawkbob]

No one ridiculed you. At All. Sorry you took it that way. You have a Merry Christmas too.