I-5 wrote:Sooooo...humor me if you will. Let's say not only Trump continues this charade into December (pretty safe assumption), and he's not alone, say Pompeo and other prominent republicans continue pushing the conspiracy that the election is a fraud...what happens next? Since the military doesn't have a role in this type of transition...what happens? This is just hypothetical at this point, however it is mid-November.
I-5 wrote:That's the question....what exactly is the risk, and what is the mechanism for enforcement?
Don't expect Trump to do anything other than leave once the electoral vote is made.
Trump is never quiet, but he's also not a martyr. He won't martyr himself to stay president. He won't martyr himself for any reason. He's also not a real fighter. If things get violent at all, he'll run. I don't think I've ever seen Trump fire a gun in my life. Maybe he's done it, but I've never seen it. Never even see him as pro-gun until he ran for president. Or religious for that matter.
Hawktawk wrote:Maybe this poll is as accurate as the rest but Ive seen far less activity on social media from supporters of Trump. I've seen Trump 2020 banners come down at the vacation resort full of older white people I work next to. I believe even the faithful have got to be getting tired of this. Little Donnie boy and his bike Kimberly Guilfoyle of Faux are making noise about starting a Trump Pac with an eye on 2024. Good luck with that.The dirtiest secret about this defend the vote legal fund is it can serve to pay down campaign debt and build funds for the Pac. The increasingly nervous law firms defending these frivolous lawsuits fights for gun control and other liberal issued most of the time and reports of disgruntled attorneys who feel they are attacking the american electoral process without justification are leaking.
Joe Biden has won in a landslide by modern standards, got a record number of votes for a challenger to a first term president, an overall record. He's won by 5 MILLION VOTES. Not one of the states is even remotely close enough to win a recount. The SCOTUS comments yesterday including from the guy who shouldn't be there Kavanaugh regarding Obamacare lead me to believe its a shot across Trumps bow regarding petitioning the court to hand him an election for no reason whatever.The conduct by Mitch McConnel and lap dog Lindsey and a few other synchpants only mirrors what they have done the last four years, cower before a deranged madman for votes. I wonder if it will wind up costing them the senate majority. Frankly I hope it does . They deserve it. The most despicable non job of oversight by a senate in my memory at great peril to america.
c_hawkbob wrote:My Biden/Harris sign lasted until the second night after the election.
c_hawkbob wrote:This year was my first ever yard sign, still ne'er a bumper sticker or pin or article of clothing. This year is also the first year I volunteered at my local Democratic HQ.
c_hawkbob wrote:This year was different. As much as you like to put it in the same drawer as all other elections, it's not. It's just not.
c_hawkbob wrote:My Biden/Harris sign lasted until the second night after the election. We forund it torn up in the ditch when I got up for work ... "the tears of my enemies" flavored my morning coffee! The wife and I got a kick out of it but my daughter and son in law got pissed, are gonna get a security camera system, want another gun in the house.
All the Trump/Pence signs are still up.
Aseahawkfan wrote:And I'm still utterly surprised people almost pushed this guy into The White House another 4 years given his obvious mishandling of the coronavirus. It was unfortunate the crazy left picked such a terrible time to lose their minds and start burning cities down to allow Trump to fearmonger his way back into an election he was clearly on his way to losing. I'm glad in the end he was taken down. He proved his narcissistic personality was extremely bad for handling a pandemic. Even now he can't do what is right for the nation and step down. Just a scummy, ego driven man who should have never won.
RiverDog wrote:Yeah, me, too. I was surprised that he was elected in the first place, but completely taken aback with this election. Part of that is because I bought into what the polls were telling us, but even so, the closeness of this election shocked me. I thought that once Trump caught the virus, that he would be completely discredited. Boy, was I wrong!
I do think that our friend Mack's reasoning may be indicative of a lot of voters. Even though it may be unfair to link Biden to the Democratic mayor's/governor's tepid response to the riots, the movement to defund the police, the Democratic Senators treatment of a SCOTUS nominee, or the impeachment inquiry as Biden didn't even hold elective office at the time, he does represent the Democratic party, so it's a rational response for a person to link him with specific events that they were outraged about. They weren't voting for Trump as much as they're voting against Democrats. The D's unexpectedly poor performance in the Congressional and Senatorial elections tends to support this hypothesis.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I cannot believe Americans have reached this irrational a view of each other. I can only surmise that most of it is pandemic driven. This being stuck in the house watching these propaganda driven news stations while stuck drove people mad. I would bet good money that once this pandemic is done the normal level of crazy will return.
Aseahawkfan wrote:You would think from the way Americans act they live in some kind of 3rd world dictatorship. I can only surmise that the media in this nation along with social media has become so powerful that it is able to manipulate people on a scale as yet unseen in history. People are so irrational and locked into their viewpoints that the fear-mongering and manipulation by the media is able to push their buttons like it never has before. I don't get it. We're not living in terrible times. Our lives are easier than they've ever been. We have plentiful food. Opportunities for all people are as good as they've ever been and improving. Yet to listen to the national narrative, we're in some kind of terrible nation with dramatic problems.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I'm not sure what you can do when a wealthy, powerful, well off nation believes their lives are terrible or the nation is troubled. The cognitive dissonance that separates reality and fiction is hard to breach in that situation. We literally have no issue we can't fix with discussion, but people act like we're in some kind of decline. The reality doesn't fit the evidence. It's very strange.
Aseahawkfan wrote:The Iraqi guy's attitude doesn't surprise me. I worked with an Iraqi Shia for a few years getting a nice education on that region of the world. I work with a lot of Muslim folk. They don't get Americans. They see Trump and don't think of him at all like a dictator. The Iraqi folk lived with a real dictator for decades. What Saddam was like doesn't compare to Trump at all. It's pretty hard for anyone who has lived in a real dictatorship to take Trump's talk as a real threat.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I disagree that this isn't pandemic driven. My buddies have been stuck in their houses. One of them laid off from his job. They haven't been able to travel normally or go about normally at all. The mask wearing is tough on them. They don't like it. All they've been able to watch to update them on the pandemic is Fox and CNN/MSNBC. These stations politicized the crap out of the virus and mask wearing. I think that definitely had an effect on my friends.
If they had been working normally and able to go out of their houses to do what they like to do, they wouldn't have had the time or inclination to spend so much time buying into political news. Just like I think the protests wouldn't have been near as bad if people hadn't been stuck in their houses looking for a reason to get out.
So we'll have to disagree on that. Pandemic had a huge effect on the level of crazy we reached.
RiverDog wrote:IMO the pandemic has made it worse, but it's not the root cause. We've always had very deep, disturbing divides when the subject turns to politics, which is one of the reasons why I try to avoid the subject except for close friends in small groups and here in the forum.
I-5 wrote:"The current administration does not have to concede, but it should do the right thing just in case the Constitutional system declares they lost. It is not about the GOP or the Democrat Party. It is not about the president or about Mr. Biden. It is about America and what is best for our people. Mr. Trump should order the transition process begin immediately. It is the right and moral thing to do."
Perfectly reasonable statement from former Chief of Staff John Kelly. Which means of course it won't happen.
Aseahawkfan wrote:No one has yet accused Trump of being moral.
RiverDog wrote:No kidding.
I remember a debate back in 1992 when George HW Bush was running for re-election against Bill Clinton, and one of the general questions was does character matter. The overwhelming response from Democrats, with Clinton being well known as a womanizer and draft dodger, as their standard bearer vs. Bush, a war hero with an impeccable personal reputation, was that such an intangible characteristic as character was didn't matter, that substance was more important. Now the tables seem to have turned.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I honestly miss that generation of people. I am so happy I was raised when I was raised. It was on the tail end of this crazy. Barring the racist values, the family and societal values were preferable to what I see in the modern day. Feels like there was some transition from the 80s to the 90s where America kind of went off the rails trying to be everything to everyone and finding themselves lost in the weeds and losing any sense of identity they ever had. Now the word is we have no culture and no identity. I find it hard to argue that we do.
I-5 wrote:Whatever good Trump or his supporters can claim for any accomplishments of his administration has been undermined by the lack of care shown by the pandemic, and now the transition. The lack of cooperation puts the country in a more vulnerable state were something to happen. For a guy whose image means everything, refusing to acknowledge his loss by allowing a peaceful transition to begin is cementing his legacy.
NorthHawk wrote:I caught a headline last night before I went to bed (so I didn't read it and now can't find it again) that said Trump was trying to find ways to replace the EC voters
with his people. If that's true then it's bold faced evidence that he's no better than a tin pot dictator.
RiverDog wrote:
No one has yet accused Trump of being moral.
No kidding.
I remember a debate back in 1992 when George HW Bush was running for re-election against Bill Clinton, and one of the general questions was does character matter. The overwhelming response from Democrats, with Clinton being well known as a womanizer and draft dodger, as their standard bearer vs. Bush, a war hero with an impeccable personal reputation, was that such an intangible characteristic as character was didn't matter, that substance was more important. Now the tables seem to have turned.
We're going to have to be careful with the information coming out of the White House now that Trump is a lame duck and his staffers days are numbered. There's going to be all sorts of crapola, some of it true, some of it complete fantasy. It's one of those believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear things.
c_hawkbob wrote:I think the greater funcional cautionary is that there will be a lot of truth coming out that scans as crapola because of our pre-Trump BS meter calibrations. The zero has moved considerably on this particular scale! I think it's gonna be more of a "you ain't heard the half of it" things.
And who knows. We may end up with a Trump Part 2 in 2024.
RiverDog wrote:
Although I do like Biden's tactic of downplaying the effect of Trump's stubbornness on the transmission and I think that he has a genuine interest in bringing the nation together, I am beginning to get concerned at some of the names I've been hearing being thrown around as he starts to fill in his cabinet. It's looking like he's already being pushed around by the progressive wing of the party. A wolf in sheep's clothing. I sure hope the R's can hold onto the Senate.
Trump's comments last night made me laugh and cry at the same time. He keeps insisting that the reason we 'look so bad' is due solely to testing. Never mind that our hospitals and ICU rooms are bulging at the seams.
And who knows. We may end up with a Trump Part 2 in 2024.
c_hawkbob wrote:Bite your tongue!
Off!!
RiverDog wrote:The thing with the 90's vs. today that I don't ever hear about is the hypocrisy from both sides. There were Republicans that tried to impeach Slick Willy for lying about a BJ yet they seem perfectly fine with Trump paying 6 figure hush money to porn stars. There were women's groups that were good with Clinton's multiple sexual harassment allegations but were outraged by Kavanaugh's 37 year old rumors. Some noted Bush's going back on his "Read my lips: No new taxes!" pledge but didn't call Trump on his "Mexico's going to pay for the wall" promise, There's a huge number of people in this country on both sides of the political spectrum that have to look at the capital letter behind the last name before they decide if that person is honest, moral, and ethical. I find it appalling that our society has become so polarized that they can't see a hypocrisy as blatant as those.
RiverDog wrote:The thing with the 90's vs. today that I don't ever hear about is the hypocrisy from both sides. There were Republicans that tried to impeach Slick Willy for lying about a BJ yet they seem perfectly fine with Trump paying 6 figure hush money to porn stars. There were women's groups that were good with Clinton's multiple sexual harassment allegations but were outraged by Kavanaugh's 37 year old rumors. Some noted Bush's going back on his "Read my lips: No new taxes!" pledge but didn't call Trump on his "Mexico's going to pay for the wall" promise, There's a huge number of people in this country on both sides of the political spectrum that have to look at the capital letter behind the last name before they decide if that person is honest, moral, and ethical. I find it appalling that our society has become so polarized that they can't see a hypocrisy as blatant as those.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I'm not even talking about the politics, just the people. I'm glad I had that image of masculinity versus today. I look around at this electronically addicted, lazy, distracted generation of people and am thankful that I wasn't raised in it. They thought the TV was bad when we were growing up for turning people into zombies, phones are a 100 times worse and can go with you everywhere.
Aseahawkfan wrote:December 14 is the next date I care about. Electoral College vote. No shenanigans. Once it's done, he's done. I don't care about the Trump Boogeyman. I don't listen to politicians or the media for information. They are at best a starting point, but certainly aren't good information sources for much more than local or national events as they occur. You want to know what's going, you have to put in the time and effort to learn about an issue, not read a bunch of news stories or listen to innuendo.
December 14th and the electoral vote is the next key date. All the stories coming out between now and that date are just rumor and hearsay unless they pertain to an issue other than the election backed up by good source information and real data that something had an effect.
December 14. Mark it on your calendar. Once that vote is done, we are locked in for a peaceful transition and all the Republican Leadership will go with it save for perhaps a handful of loonies depending on what Trump says or does.
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