The Trump effect

[Hawktawk]

Obviously I was never on board and initially about 80% of the party wasn't but its just incredible to see how many formerly respected people have gone utterly bonkers supporting this guy to this day. Start with formerly Americas mayor Giuliani and I need say no more.Hes as big a cartoon figure as the guy he's a lawyer for . Lindsey Graham, went from proclaiming in 2016 that Trump was unfit and would destroy the party, threatening him not to fire Jeff Sessions or Bob Mueller to the most sickening sleazy sycophant ever. To the point he is actively calling state officials trying to persuade them to throw out legal ballots.

Really the overwhelming majority of Republican lawmakers is nauseating, disgusting allowing a president to inflame tensions, basically commit sedition, actively lobby state election officials with personal phone calls when they know damn good and well he's lost.Lou Dobbs from Fox business, formerly a fairly demure finance commentator threw a tantrum on air the other day encouraging republicans to "rise up and defend what is his".

Then the rank and file supporters for whom the battle cry is socialism bad so we support the man despite his warts but who have utterly lost touch with reality and are in a cult. Laughing as he begs Russia to hack opponents E mails, praises Wikileaks . Laughing as he says he and kim Jong Un "fell in love" and wrote love letters back and forth. Not only accepting his attacks on John McCain's war service but continuing them, expanding them, making John McCain the bad guy while worshiping a 5 time draft dodger.
I have many personal examples among my many trump supporting friends. I've got a childhood friend who owns a trucking company. We were discussing Trump a couple years ago and he said "he's one of us"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A guy who never has got his hands dirty once, a bankruptcy acrobat scumbag whose daddy gave him the equivalent of half a billion dollars and a gold plated rolls is "like us" he's a man of the people


My best friend is a millionaire businessman who supports Trump. His reason was simple. He's a capitalist whose made lots of money. I pointed out he wouldnt hire trump to run one of his fast food restaurants with his demeanor and he agreed but somehow the guy having control of the US nuclear arsenal is OK with him. The Idiots lining the streets of DC in their idiotic made in china red hats and their made in china trump 2020 flags cheer and wave as the president zips by in his limo on the way to his 250th round of golf at his swanky resort.

Most of them would never have the money or the opportunity to play or stay in the 650 dollar suites our SS agents pay full price for . They say "he's one of us". Its lunacy.

Probably the saddest example Im aware of is the account of a nurse in the Dakotas which have the highest death rate per capita in the world. She said some gravely ill Covid patients swear at her, demand she give them better medicine because Covd does not exist. They scream Joe Biden is going to destroy the country with pink foam coming out of their mouth, only quieting down when they are intubated.She said it happens quite a bit.

That's the legacy of Trump.
No ideology is as potentially damaging as what this man has done and he got 74 million votes.

[Aseahawkfan]

Giuliani has so many terrible pictures and videos that he's become the equivalent of Grima Wormtongue to Trump's Saruman. You almost picture Rudy sitting at Trump's feet like a twisted sycophant completely in Trump's power as Trump pet's his head and tells Rudy, "You've done well, Rudy. Trump will take care of you, don't worry." Rudy seems pathetic.

Now this shows you understand more. My friends support this guy and some coworkers with completely irrational fervor. They aren't bad guys at all. They aren't rabid racists. They aren't against the country. They love America. They are hard working guys who have built up their lives and take care of their families. Some are highly religious that believe in God. Really good friends who would help me in a tough time. A few of my co-workers the same. Good people, good to work with, friendly and hard-working who would share their food with you and the like.

But for some reason Trump has them convinced he's the sole man standing against the evil Democrats destroying the nation with socialism, immorality, and white man hate. He has them convinced he's one of them even as he gives interviews from a gold throne. He has them convinced he's the conservative outsider draining the swamp and protecting America from illegal immigrants even as he makes money selling apartments to rich Muslims from oil countries, does business around the world, and marries immigrants.

It's crazy that he's been able to do this. It's crazy that they can't see through his facade.

I don't get it. When I look at Trump I see a wealthy, narcissist salesman doing all of this for his own glorification. He likes the adulation and being the center of attention. His companies and friends are making tons of money off the tax cuts. He hired a bunch of swamp monster sycophants to help him and even some of them couldn't stand him in the end. Now he's engaging in underhanded, win at all costs attempts to overturn an election by seeding faithless electors into the electoral college. The people I know truly believe that the election was stolen by the Democrats with no evidence other than a handful of stories that aren't corroborated. Pretty nuts.

It's these fricking lockdowns near as I can tell. My buddies normally would be too busy with their lives to care about politics to this level. But they're all stuck in their houses, everything closed down, watching the news as it politicizes everything being driven into a tizzy with nowhere to unleash all that pent up energy. If the country continues these lockdowns too much longer, some bad things are going to happen in my opinion. People are really going to start losing their minds.

[RiverDog]

Giuliani has so many terrible pictures and videos that he's become the equivalent of Grima Wormtongue to Trump's Saruman. You almost picture Rudy sitting at Trump's feet like a twisted sycophant completely in Trump's power as Trump pet's his head and tells Rudy, "You've done well, Rudy. Trump will take care of you, don't worry." Rudy seems pathetic.

I honestly don't know what happened to Rudy. I used to really like the guy, a crime fighter and no nonsense mayor of the largest city in the country. But you're exactly right. He's pathetic.

I don't get it. When I look at Trump I see a wealthy, narcissist salesman doing all of this for his own glorification. He likes the adulation and being the center of attention. His companies and friends are making tons of money off the tax cuts. He hired a bunch of swamp monster sycophants to help him and even some of them couldn't stand him in the end. Now he's engaging in underhanded, win at all costs attempts to overturn an election by seeding faithless electors into the electoral college. The people I know truly believe that the election was stolen by the Democrats with no evidence other than a handful of stories that aren't corroborated. Pretty nuts.

Not only that, but Trump's the polar opposite of most of his supporters: A New Yorker, spoiled rich kid, never had to work for a living, draft dodger, Ivy Leaguer, doesn't even own a pet. Trump's attraction to his base doesn't make a lot of sense other than Trump is as dumb as a rock and so are a good many of his supporters, or at least that's been my experience.

It's these fricking lockdowns near as I can tell. My buddies normally would be too busy with their lives to care about politics to this level. But they're all stuck in their houses, everything closed down, watching the news as it politicizes everything being driven into a tizzy with nowhere to unleash all that pent up energy. If the country continues these lockdowns too much longer, some bad things are going to happen in my opinion. People are really going to start losing their minds.

As in the violence this summer, the lock downs are not the root cause but it did/does contribute to the veracity and has the effect of making it much, much worse.

[Hawktawk]

another gem from Guliani
https://www.the-sun.com/news/1833085/ru ... g-gesture/

[Hawktawk]

Its the trump effect. Its a cult. I've said it for weeks now. If you support what trump is doing at this point you have a death wish for yourself, for me, for america, for the world. You just dont realize it. Its a cult far more deadly than Jonestown. Its making the pandemic worse but Trumps trump and his supporters are who they are and they would be acting no different after these election results. They made the pandemic what it is, not the other way around.

Another great example of the Trump effect was R senator James Lankford who said mid week of 2 weeks ago that if Trump had not begun handing over intelligence by that Friday he would "step in". I've really not heard a peep out of him since, he didn't step in and that was supposed to happen 8 days ago.Bidens getting private briefings and having to fundraise to staff and transition .Last i checked Langford still hasn't congratulated Biden or accepted he's won. I wonder how much dirt trump has on him.

[c_hawkbob]

another gem from Guliani
https://www.the-sun.com/news/1833085/ru ... g-gesture/

yeah, more diarrhea of the mouth from Rudy ... dude really needs to quit putting mascara on his sideburns man.

[c_hawkbob]

They made the pandemic what it is, not the other way around.

A lot of truth right there. Much more than the inverse.

[Aseahawkfan]

Its the trump effect. Its a cult. I've said it for weeks now. If you support what trump is doing at this point you have a death wish for yourself, for me, for america, for the world. You just dont realize it. Its a cult far more deadly than Jonestown. Its making the pandemic worse but Trumps trump and his supporters are who they are and they would be acting no different after these election results. They made the pandemic what it is, not the other way around.

Another great example of the Trump effect was R senator James Lankford who said mid week of 2 weeks ago that if Trump had not begun handing over intelligence by that Friday he would "step in". I've really not heard a peep out of him since, he didn't step in and that was supposed to happen 8 days ago.Bidens getting private briefings and having to fundraise to staff and transition .Last i checked Langford still hasn't congratulated Biden or accepted he's won. I wonder how much dirt trump has on him.

From what I understand Biden went around Trump by going to the governors who are receiving the briefings, both Democrat and Republican governors who are working with Biden to coordinate the transition.

[Aseahawkfan]

Its the trump effect. Its a cult. I've said it for weeks now. If you support what trump is doing at this point you have a death wish for yourself, for me, for america, for the world. You just dont realize it. Its a cult far more deadly than Jonestown. Its making the pandemic worse but Trumps trump and his supporters are who they are and they would be acting no different after these election results. They made the pandemic what it is, not the other way around.

Another great example of the Trump effect was R senator James Lankford who said mid week of 2 weeks ago that if Trump had not begun handing over intelligence by that Friday he would "step in". I've really not heard a peep out of him since, he didn't step in and that was supposed to happen 8 days ago.Bidens getting private briefings and having to fundraise to staff and transition .Last i checked Langford still hasn't congratulated Biden or accepted he's won. I wonder how much dirt trump has on him.

True enough. Trump has definitely set an extremely poor example for his followers in regards to the pandemic and just behavior in general. Jonestown eh? Because he has convinced so many to act against their own self-interest in regards to the virus? Hmm. Not as direct as Jonestown, but there is truth in this idea. Not sure how many lives would have been saved if he wasn't acting like masks and shutdowns were some kind affront to his manhood and PR issue, but likely a good number.

One friend is acting as though he made an intelligent statement by asking why the Republicans held the Senate and were able to pick up seats in the House but somehow Trump lost as an indication of voter fraud due to mail-in voting. I had to mention that the same people who voted for Republicans in the House and Senate voted by mail, but somehow those Republicans did ok with mail-in voting. Silence from him.

My other buddy keeps bringing up you can't ignore 73 million Americans. I'm wondering why he thinks you can ignore 79 million Americans that voted for Biden. It doesn't make sense, but that is his emotional bias.

I know from a sociological and biological understanding that humans are primarily emotionally driven organisms. Marketing companies, politicians, lawyers, and the like rely on their ability to manipulate human emotions. But damn, it sure is frustrating when you have leaders and media organizations highly adept at emotional manipulation for personal gain engaging in behaviors that are not good for the nation. Trump has obviously been exceptionally adept at manipulating his follower's emotions using the most specious of evidence. It is very frustrating as an American to see so many people falling for his garbage hating each other because of emotionally driven manipulation from overly influential media sources seeking ratings and a selfish, narcissistic president who really only cares about his personal gain.

Trump has really taken all that Democrat hate on the right and harnessed it like I've never seen before. Not to mention wound up the Democratic left more than I've ever seen. He built a presidency off fear and hate. He made the Democrats and left hate him, then took all their reactions to his hate and used it to drive his followers into a tizzy. It sure is sad to see Americans continuing to fall for it on all sides. 60 days until the Narcissistic Ass is out of office. It can't come soon enough.

[RiverDog]

Its the trump effect. Its a cult. I've said it for weeks now. If you support what trump is doing at this point you have a death wish for yourself, for me, for america, for the world. You just dont realize it. Its a cult far more deadly than Jonestown. Its making the pandemic worse but Trumps trump and his supporters are who they are and they would be acting no different after these election results. They made the pandemic what it is, not the other way around.

The Jonestown analogy is a bit over the top, but I essentially agree that it's a cult for those considered hard core followers. Some of those people are as nuts as the flat Earthers. There's no way that a normal, straight thinking person can believe some of the outright lies that Trump tells. But I don't think that Trump could talk those people out of everything they own the way Jim Jones did.

It will be interesting to see what happens on January 21st. There's talk of Trump starting his own news network. It would be interesting to see the list of potential advertisers. Schmidt Beer?

[Aseahawkfan]

The Jonestown analogy is a bit over the top, but I essentially agree that it's a cult for those considered hard core followers. Some of those people are as nuts as the flat Earthers. There's no way that a normal, straight thinking person can believe some of the outright lies that Trump tells. But I don't think that Trump could talk those people out of everything they own the way Jim Jones did.

It will be interesting to see what happens on January 21st. There's talk of Trump starting his own news network. It would be interesting to see the list of potential advertisers. Schmidt Beer?

Have you read critical race theory that is an accepted theory by a good number of Democrats? Or intersectionality? That is leftist crazy. I can't believe what Americans buy into nowadays on both sides. The out there theories, distrust, and the like is looney.

Even now I'm seeing the whole Russia is on Trump's side thing. Yet for decades it was Russia is helping the progressives and liberals who push socialism and communism and have invaded our universities and government through academics to destroy us. There are literally youtube videos with "experts" talking about how Russia infiltrated the liberal media and universities to cause dissension and push the communist agenda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQPsKvG6WMI

But now Russia is supporting the right wing? And has control of the Republicans through Trump?

America is a clown show right now. You can literally find an "expert" to prove almost anyone's side of an argument. Not sure how you find truth in a situation like that.

I have not lived in an America that did not have enemies and fear sold to us on a constant basis even as we are generally considered the only remaining superpower and the strongest nation in the world spending more on a military than any other nation. It would be impossible to justify such military spending if we did not keep Americans fearing the boogeyman.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13261387/ ... biden-bar/

This punk Donnie Jr thinks he has a political future. Sadly enough when its the Trump party he probably does.

I wonder how Pence feels these days. Lily white christian man, wont be alone with any woman but his wife, believes in anti gay conversion therapies. He was so pure a little over 4 years ago he actually cancelled his campaign appearances for 2 days after Trump bragged about grabbing pussies on tape.Now he's featured in a profanity laced cartoon bar fight. Even more sickening was watching him be run out there by Trump yesterday to give a campaign style speech calling for every legal vote to be counted.

He fell on his sword, flushed his morals down the toilet for 4 years to be a heartbeat away and his reward is to be Trumps point man on sedition.

Shoulda took those 25th amendment discussions that happened very early on in this term a little more seriously dude.Yoou would have been doing the right thing for the first time. You would have been presidential, competent. ideologically pure. You would have handed covid far better for the worlds sake, not just ours. You would have cruised. No way 80 million would have turned out for Joe Biden against anyone but Trump...

Now you're a cartoon figure, a castoff.You got the $#1t sandwich of running the coronavirus response, a couple weeks later the narcissist hijacked them for 3 months after seeing the ratings then bailed over the last 5 months including skipping the G20 video conference on the pandemic YESTERDAY due to his 303rd round of golf as president.

You've been made a fool of Pence.Your response has been pathetic.Still no national response or even WH leadership in the wort part of a pandemic. Your political ambitions are over.

As for the virus yes this cult is far more deadly than Jonestown. I have more friends than not as a red side resident who believe Covid is a hoax, the flu, the #s are inflated X100 all to sink trump, masks are BS and a violation of their rights as is social distancing. There was a 300 person wedding in ritzville on Nov 11 already linked to over 40 outbreaks. My wife who is a MRI tech had a co woker host a 100 plus person wedding with 10 cases including now a few in the clinic. All this is the spawn of Trumpism who has been a disaster on covid. Its a hoax, masks are for weenies, masks are patriotic, just not for me.Threatening democratic governors who did not sufficiently open their states to his liking, pressing red state governors to stay open late and open early. The super spreader rallies almost certainly have resulted in many thousands of cases and deaths. The Trump campaign was making attendees sign waivers which thousands willingly did. I saw an interview with an older female trump supporter who said going to the rally maskless was her "patriotic duty" If it cost her her life its a sacrifice she would be willing to make!!!!!! A god damn political rally is her political duty worth risking her (and everyone elses) life for .

As I've said people are dying of covid claiming it does not exist in their dying words. When presidential historians are pretty much universally saying this is a cult they didn't tell me anything I hadn't figured out but they made my point.

[RiverDog]

Have you read critical race theory that is an accepted theory by a good number of Democrats? Or intersectionality? That is leftist crazy. I can't believe what Americans buy into nowadays on both sides. The out there theories, distrust, and the like is looney.

I'll admit that I'm not up to speed on some of the theories embraced by the far left. I don't doubt that they exist. I wasn't indicating that the hard core Trump followers were alone in their lunacy.

America is a clown show right now. You can literally find an "expert" to prove almost anyone's side of an argument. Not sure how you find truth in a situation like that.

I have not lived in an America that did not have enemies and fear sold to us on a constant basis even as we are generally considered the only remaining superpower and the strongest nation in the world spending more on a military than any other nation. It would be impossible to justify such military spending if we did not keep Americans fearing the boogeyman.

I'm not going to disagree with any of that, but as we both have noted, the country has gone through worse times before and survived. We'll get through this 'clown show', too.

[NorthHawk]

[quote]Its the trump effect. Its a cult. I've said it for weeks now. If you support what trump is doing at this point you have a death wish for yourself, for me, for america, for the world. You just dont realize it. Its a cult far more deadly than Jonestown.[/quote

There's another phenomena out there as well that the person who is being scammed is often the most ardent supporter of the scammer.
Many have gone so far up the Trump Tree that they can't justify to themselves or face others and admit they're being duped.

[Hawktawk]

There's been enough russian deep fakes, right wing conspiracy theories and news outlets like Fox and newsmax putting out straight lies its having an effect. Polls showed just after the race was called only 3% of people were absolutely convinced Trump had won with around 20% unsure. The # is now around 70% of republicans 10 days later WHO SAY he won even as evidence has completely failed to be uncovered, quite the opposite. The machines in Georgia supposedly connected to Venezuelan mobsters Had counted every ballot exactly right. There were several thousand ballots from trump leaning counties that had not been counted as a result of mistakes by Republican... poll officials but they barely moved the needle. Now they want a 3rd recount . A federal Judge in Penn literally laughed Giuliani's clown show out of court yesterday saying they were asking him to disenfranchise millions of voters on specious unfounded arguments.

So what's the plan today? Invite the republicans from Pennsylvania to the oval office to try to cajole them into electing faithless electors after losing in court. The michigan situation is hardly set in stone either IMO as one of the participants in the oval office meeting is now making noise about delaying the vote to certify. They were photographed in Trump hotel having food and drinks after their meeting.

Again how any of this is remotely OK I will never understand. Pat Toomey R senator from Penn became the latest Senator to congratulate Biden but at least 40 Republican senators and hundreds of house members have yet accept Bidens win publicly. Thats the real disgrace here.Theses guys know the truth, have for 4 years and they know the truth of this election. Joni Ernst did deliver a scathing criticism of the notion that the voters had cheated but still hasn't acknowledged Biden win.

Trump's followers are so delusional they dont know any better.Actually I think most know he lost fair and square . They dont care as long as they keep the cult alive, keep the dear leader another 4 or who knows how many years? Who is gonna stop him if he pulls this off?

[RiverDog]

There's another phenomena out there as well that the person who is being scammed is often the most ardent supporter of the scammer. Many have gone so far up the Trump Tree that they can't justify to themselves or face others and admit they're being duped.

I think there's a lot of truth in that. Donald Trump isn't the only one that can't admit to having been wrong. It's a very common, normal human reaction, part of our ego defense mechanism. It's not easy, and generally takes years to overcome.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump like everything else takes not admitting he's wrong to an entire new level of crazy.

[Hawktawk]

Driving through moses Lake today I passed 4 churches which are allowed 25% capacity. One was apparently closed with an empty parking lot. 2 appeared compliant based on their sparsely populated parking lot.

The largest of the 4 had a car in every parking spot, probably at least 200 cars. Assuming 2 per car which is probably low just do the math there, singing and swapping saliva and likely not a mask to be found .My wife and I are cancelling thanksgiving with her parents for the first time in 30 years and these cultists are just wasting our sacrifice along with that of all the bars and restaurants etc.

Thanks Trump. Thanks evangelicals. You are responsible for these shutdowns and death at this point.

[RiverDog]

Driving through moses Lake today I passed 4 churches which are allowed 25% capacity. One was apparently closed with an empty parking lot. 2 appeared compliant based on their sparsely populated parking lot.

The largest of the 4 had a car in every parking spot, probably at least 200 cars. Assuming 2 per car which is probably low just do the math there, singing and swapping saliva and likely not a mask to be found .My wife and I are cancelling thanksgiving with her parents for the first time in 30 years and these cultists are just wasting our sacrifice along with that of all the bars and restaurants etc.

Thanks Trump. Thanks evangelicals. You are responsible for these shutdowns and death at this point.

We have two restaurants here in the Tri Cities that have openly defied the governor's mandate to ban indoor dining. They even did a full page article about them in the local newspaper. It's despicable. They need to have their business licenses revoked. It's not fair to the businesses that are biting the bullet and complying.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... d=msedgdhp

The Trump effect that has had outlets like Faux and Newsmaxspoting dangerous conspiracy theories is coming back to bite them now. This is an interesting suit as it likely opens up discovery to verify the accuracy of the machines . But outlets even as radical as Newsmax are backing away from their voting machine conspiracy to avoid litigation after the suit was filed.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/dominion-voting-systems-employee-sues-trump-campaign-allies/ar-BB1cbaFQ?ocid=msedgdhp

The Trump effect that has had outlets like Faux and Newsmaxspoting dangerous conspiracy theories is coming back to bite them now. This is an interesting suit as it likely opens up discovery to verify the accuracy of the machines . But outlets even as radical as Newsmax are backing away from their voting machine conspiracy to avoid litigation after the suit was filed.

Did you see Michael Flynn trying to justify martial law to overturn an election? WTF was that?

[I-5]

Did you see Michael Flynn trying to justify martial law to overturn an election? WTF was that?

Flynn is reminding everyone exactly why he belongs behind bars. I can't believe this guy was actually National Security Advisor at one point. How much worse off would we be if he hadn't got busted 4 years ago? He also has Putin's fingerprints all over him in a way that he can't deny.

What's interesting about the lawsuit about voting machines is how it's scared orgs like Fox, Newsmax et all into backtracking their accusations...will it get the same response from Giuliani, Powell, and other individuals that are named?

[Hawktawk]

Did you see Michael Flynn trying to justify martial law to overturn an election? WTF was that?

Again, its unconscionable that a pardoned for not rolling on the man who pardoned him former general says these things in the oval office of the people's house. Then Trump asks if he can do them and he's still in the office, got "talked out of it" . The problem is that our military and police have some QAanoon and Proud boys etc sympathizers in their ranks, part of the reporting in the last few months as these organizations have popped up as the right fringe Trump base.

In addition the acting secretary of defense is a trump yes man who has a history of exposing conspiracy theories regarding Trump.He is the record 5th acting secretary of defense, 6th overall in a 4 year term and the last 5 have been within the last 2 years . As Mark Esper who was fired on twitter a month ago said "who comes after me and then god help us"
I dont think its cut and dried what happens if Trump actually pulls the trigger on some sort of martial law attempt or arders the seizure of voting machines. Nobody has stopped him yet.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="I-5"

Flynn is reminding everyone exactly why he belongs behind bars. I can't believe this guy was actually National Security Advisor at one point. How much worse off would we be if he hadn't got busted 4 years ago? He also has Putin's fingerprints all over him in a way that he can't deny.

What's interesting about the lawsuit about voting machines is how it's scared orgs like Fox, Newsmax et all into backtracking their accusations...will it get the same response from Giuliani, Powell, and other individuals that are named?[/quote]

They have all been ordered to preserve any and all materials and prepare for litigation. Also there are reports circulating that they may face legal issues for filing all these frivolous lawsuits. Their dirty secret is they tell the american people there's massive fraud but argue no such thing in court, only pointing to procedural errors that should disqualify votes. Id love to see this stuff blow up this current republican party.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/michael-f ... anon-merch

You truly cant make it up. A former freaking US general advocating martial law and pushing merchandise from a cult that believes among other things that zero dark thirty is a hoax and Bin Laden is still alive.

Sad to say people this is not going away. Theses people have crossed the rubicon. They believe the voters,the poll workers , the election officials, the secs of state, the governors, the lower courts, the appellate courts, the SCOTUS, the in the bag for Trump AG, the republican director of election security are all liars and they believe DJT is telling the truth.

It's a sickness. This poison is here to stay.

[Hawktawk]

https://apnews.com/article/election-202 ... 7ec2f2ab30

This is big news because this guy is a potential 2024 R candidate for president.Clearly he's made the political calculation that to be on the right side of Koop Koo for cocoa puffs is the best play even though he surely knows Biden has been elected. Imagine a man at a minimum going through the motions of trying to subvert the 2020 election wanting to be the next president

With freshman senator Tommy Tuberville from Alabama already indicating he will challenge it will insure a nasty long drawn out all day floor fight on Jan 6. Rep Lois Gohmert along with other members are suing Mike Pence to try to force him to refuse to certify the results in the swing states. So far he has resisted and flat out said he will not do it but who knows. Either way it is not winnable supposedly but these miserable excuses for human beings dragging this country through this with someone dying every 3 minutes in LOS angeles county is just evil, despicable, unamerican.

I'll tell you something, I'm no democrat but absent a third party or complete makeover of the party in a 180 direction I will sure as hell vote for democrats forever if this is what's become of the republican party.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-joe-biden-donald-trump-michael-brown-josh-hawley-8d868c985792e932f9bc527ec2f2ab30

This is big news because this guy is a potential 2024 R candidate for president.Clearly he's made the political calculation that to be on the right side of Koop Koo for cocoa puffs is the best play even though he surely knows Biden has been elected. Imagine a man at a minimum going through the motions of trying to subvert the 2020 election wanting to be the next president

With freshman senator Tommy Tuberville from Alabama already indicating he will challenge it will insure a nasty long drawn out all day floor fight on Jan 6. Rep Lois Gohmert along with other members are suing Mike Pence to try to force him to refuse to certify the results in the swing states. So far he has resisted and flat out said he will not do it but who knows. Either way it is not winnable supposedly but these miserable excuses for human beings dragging this country through this with someone dying every 3 minutes in LOS angeles county is just evil, despicable, unamerican.

I'll tell you something, I'm no democrat but absent a third party or complete makeover of the party in a 180 direction I will sure as hell vote for democrats forever if this is what's become of the republican party.

These people are ridiculous. Once the dirt is out of the president's office, things will adjust.

[I-5]

Ben Sasse (R-Missouri), one of the few republican voices of reason. He's not always consistent, but compared to his colleagues, he sounds positively sane:

"The president and his allies are playing with fire. They have been asking -- first the courts, then state legislatures, now the Congress -- to overturn the results of a presidential election. They have unsuccessfully called on judges and are now calling on federal officeholders to invalidate millions and millions of votes. If you make big claims, you had better have the evidence. But the president doesn't and neither do the institutional arsonist members of Congress who will object to the Electoral College vote. When we talk in private, I haven't heard a single Congressional Republican allege that the election results were fraudulent -- not one. Instead, I hear them talk about their worries about how they will 'look' to President Trump's most ardent supporters.

Let's be clear what is happening here: We have a bunch of ambitious politicians who think there's a quick way to tap into the president's populist base without doing any real, long-term damage. But they're wrong -- and this issue is bigger than anyone's personal ambitions."

-------

Spot on.

[Hawktawk]

Yes Sasse has rehabilitated himself a bit. The entire republican senate is culpable in years of madness , corruption , treasonous behavior however .


And while Sasse was standing up Moscow Mitch was backing down , telling senators to “ vote their conscience “. This vote proves they have no conscience . These are evil men who could give a damn about America . Nor do those voters who support this current effort . I’ll rest easier when Biden is actually president but it’s a long way to the 20th and clearly trump will try anything up to declaring martial law or starting a major war in the Middle East .

[RiverDog]

More drama. Even Trump's threatened veto of the stimulus bill was nothing more than calling attention to himself, the exact same thing that Hawley and some of these R's are trying to achieve by objecting to the vote certification.

I read where Sen. John Thune, R-SD, said that he hasn't heard a single Republican lawmaker say that they thought the election was stolen when they talk in private.

Wake me up on Jan. 20th.

[I-5]

I so wish this nightmare would end Jan 20 with Biden being sworn in. A large part of it will, but if anything the conspirational noises will just continue to grow, and if the republican party doesn't take charge of the narrative, Trump is going to take down the party with him.

I don't think Trump is looking for drama this time (although he loves drama most of the time). He's been trying to turn over every rock to see which one might result in him staying as president - and avoiding prison. I'm sure in this case, he would take any way, shape or form of avoiding what awaits him when he becomes former president Trump.

[RiverDog]

I so wish this nightmare would end Jan 20 with Biden being sworn in. A large part of it will, but if anything the conspirational noises will just continue to grow, and if the republican party doesn't take charge of the narrative, Trump is going to take down the party with him.

I don't think Trump is looking for drama this time (although he loves drama most of the time). He's been trying to turn over every rock to see which one might result in him staying as president - and avoiding prison. I'm sure in this case, he would take any way, shape or form of avoiding what awaits him when he becomes former president Trump.

Unless he's dumber than even I think that he is, he can't possibly think that he can overturn the results of the election, not when he's been turned down twice by SCOTUS and now by influential members of his own party. We all know that he's a narcissist, and this type of behavior fits to a 'T' the description of one.

He doesn't care about his party. By going completely opposite them with his $2000 per person proposal for the aid package, he's handed the Democrats a gift wrapped issue that they may use to take over the Senate in the Georgia run off elections.

We'll see what happens to him and his band of crazies after Biden's inauguration and after the pandemic. My guess is that it fades to more of a cult thing rather than becoming a dominant force in the Republican party.

[NorthHawk]

I think he IS in part looking for drama. It gives him an ego boost and confirms he still has power within the party.
His other goal is to continue the grift to line his pockets from donations and keep a war chest in the event he decides to
run again in 2024 or keep a major influence in the party for at least the next election cycles. I don't think he's going away
anytime soon and will probably cast a shadow in 2 years and maybe 4.

[RiverDog]

I think he IS in part looking for drama. It gives him an ego boost and confirms he still has power within the party.
His other goal is to continue the grift to line his pockets from donations and keep a war chest in the event he decides to
run again in 2024 or keep a major influence in the party for at least the next election cycles. I don't think he's going away
anytime soon and will probably cast a shadow in 2 years and maybe 4.

I completely agree. Everything with Trump involves either money, stroking his ego, or both. I see absolutely nothing in his recent behavior that can't be explained by one or both of those two factors.

But I'm not sure what the future holds for him, if he's going to be marginalized or will still be a major force. We probably won't have a clear answer to that question for at least a year when we head into the mid term elections.

[Hawktawk]

https://apnews.com/article/election-202 ... d6514a9898. It looks like Pence has had enough. He will always be a skunk in my eyes but even the likes of he and Bill Barr had their bridge too far. It is reported that Pence has flatly refused to entertain this notion of refusing to certify even though he's sent mixed messages at rallies. Also very interesting is his cancellation of the overseas trip he was scheduled to take right after they vote to certify, ostensibly to avoid Trump wrath. He must be sticking around just to be around if wackadoodle does something really crazy or ODs on adderall or coke.

I've been saying for years the man should be removed under the 25th amendment. And certainly once he started this sedition that will rend this country asunder like never before at the worst possible time.. Frankly I think every principle who would make the call knows it as well.
He reportedly ordered remodeling ordered done by Melania to be ripped out while at Mara Lago then abruptly cut his vacation short to return to DC after Hawleys announcement.The man is a psychotic loose cannon sabre rattling with Iran on the anniversary of his reckless assassination of the top uniformed military general in the country.Good lord once it was confirmed he had discussed martial law, had to be "talked out of it" it just renders the 25th amendment worthless if its not invoked immediately. Its a joke but its not funny.

This is becoming very interesting politically for 24 however assuming we are still a nation. Sasse and now Pence who are both considered 24 candidates for POTUS have taken out their ground as pro constitution peaceful transition guys although weasel pence has yet to say Biden is the president elect publicly. Hawley who is also on the short list is 180 out, a purely political calculation as Sasse pointed out not one R in the congress has privately said Biden lost.

So time will tell. Sasse and Romney for sure are 2 guys Id consider in 24 due to their integrity and the fact that their nomination would prove a return to sanity , dignity and diplomacy for the party. I would never support Pence, Nikki Hayley lost me when she spoke at the convention. The rest it goes without saying. If they have not opposed Trump I will never support them. They will likely be running against Kamala. Will the Trump effect be the deciding factor? All that is a long way away but these politicians are looking to it making their calculations.

[RiverDog]

The Senate just overrode Trump's veto of the defense authorization bill 81-13 following the House's override vote of 322-87. It was the first Congressional override of the Trump presidency.

Those votes had substantial Republican majorities supporting them so it wouldn't appear that Trump has a stranglehold on the party as some may have thought.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump is 74 years old. How much longer can he hold power like this? Not much longer unless he truly is some demon.

Be nice if some sensible politician could rise up that can bridge this gap between Americans. Most of the divide is media driven with each side finding the biggest idiot they can to wind up the other side. The media is way too powerful in this nation. They have no regard for what they do any more. They are highly political and these media demagogues are driving this divide.

[RiverDog]

Trump is 74 years old. How much longer can he hold power like this? Not much longer unless he truly is some demon.

Be nice if some sensible politician could rise up that can bridge this gap between Americans. Most of the divide is media driven with each side finding the biggest idiot they can to wind up the other side. The media is way too powerful in this nation. They have no regard for what they do any more. They are highly political and these media demagogues are driving this divide.

I agree, but you have to include social media in your statement as part of 'the media'. It's primarily on social media where misinformation gets started.

And I also contend that the root cause is the incredibly stupid and naïve people have become that has made them so subject to manipulation. Donald Trump can get away with telling lie after lie simply because so many people are too stupid to realize that he's full of chit.

[I-5]

Trump gained a lot of power, first as the nominee of the party he ran for, then as POTUS. It remains to be seen how much power he can hold onto as a former POTUS, but I think he's showing that even losing an election convincingly isn't enough to sway his true believers, which shockingly included politicians (I'm not so shocked personally, but I think some in this forum are surprised). I do think a lot of that power will drain after Biden moves into the WH (no one likes a loser)...but I don't think it will go away, because a lot of people have invested so much, they have no choice but to keep going, and he gives them a reason to keep going by spreading more and more lies to support their bad choices. I have a feeling he's going to continue to be the voice of the party simply because he's an effective bully, and he has rabid supporters. The only way he can be stopped is if a big voice (either well known or not well known yet) from the republican party stands up to him in a way that no one has before him. I don't know who that voice is.

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree, but you have to include social media in your statement as part of 'the media'. It's primarily on social media where misinformation gets started.

And I also contend that the root cause is the incredibly stupid and naïve people have become that has made them so subject to manipulation. Donald Trump can get away with telling lie after lie simply because so many people are too stupid to realize that he's full of chit.

74 million voted for Trump. 81 million for Biden. Will things die down or get worse? We shall see. These two sides seem to growing farther apart, not closer. They seem completely willing to dismiss or ridicule the other's concerns.