Jail to the thief?

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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby RiverDog » Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:50 am

I-5 wrote:Can you give an example of how Joe is distracted? There will always be noise around you when you're POTUS, that can't be stopped nor should it. I don't see any distraction from him whatsoever.


I didn't say that he's distracted. I said that he needs to avoid distraction.

If you're looking for a possible distraction, his recent selection for his Secretary of Defense is drawing criticism from both sides of the aisle. I don't see it as a problem for him as he isn't in the driver's seat yet, but that's the type of controversy that he needs to avoid once he takes the oath.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:32 am

his recent selection for his Secretary of Defense is drawing criticism from both sides of the aisle

Other than the fact that he'll need congressional approval because he hasn't been retired the requisite 7 years I've heard none.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby RiverDog » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:11 am

his recent selection for his Secretary of Defense is drawing criticism from both sides of the aisle


c_hawkbob wrote:Other than the fact that he'll need congressional approval because he hasn't been retired the requisite 7 years I've heard none.


It won't be as big of a problem as another person he was considering for the position, but he does have some issues that the radical wing of the party are going to have to come to grips with:

The nomination of Austin, who headed U.S. Central Command under Obama, could draw fire from some progressive groups given his role in retirement on the board of a number of companies, including weapons maker Raytheon Technologies Corp.

https://www.usnews.com/news/top-news/ar ... e-covid-19

The issue of his not being out of the service long enough is nothing to brush off as being no big deal. There are a lot of pols from both sides of the aisle that could make a big stink over it:

“I have the deepest respect and admiration for General Austin,” said Senator Richard Blumenthal, a Connecticut Democrat who serves on the Senate Armed Services Committee. “His nomination is exciting and historic. But I believe that a waiver of the seven-year rule would contravene the basic principle that there should be civilian control of a nonpolitical military.”

"I supported a one-time waiver in the case of Secretary James Mattis with the belief that the circumstances at the time warranted a rare exception, not the establishment of a new precedent, which erodes the basic principle of civilian control of the military,” said Senator Susan Collins, Republican of Maine.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/08/us/p ... etary.html

Ultimately I think he'll get his man as the tradition is that a POTUS should have who ever he wants in his cabinet and I have no reason to disagree with any of his selections, at least not yet. But I'm sure glad he's getting this stuff out of the way early.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:19 am

Non of that seems concerning at all. And whether they wanted to establish a precedent with Mattis or not, they did.

Not that it would matter to me if they refuse to waiver him, I only know about him what I've read since his announced nomination, I'm sure someone else can be found. I just hadn't heard any real criticism.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby RiverDog » Wed Dec 09, 2020 9:20 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Non of that seems concerning at all. And whether they wanted to establish a precedent with Mattis or not, they did.

Not that it would matter to me if they refuse to waiver him, I only know about him what I've read since his announced nomination, I'm sure someone else can be found. I just hadn't heard any real criticism.


It's not concerning to me, either. My point was that it's a distraction.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby I-5 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:54 pm

What I said was that I want him to focus on nothing but the pandemic and not to cave in to pressure from Democrats like that goon ball from NJ. To Biden's great credit, he has resisted the urging of some members of his party and I like the way he's gone about putting together his cabinet, including his expected appointment to Secretary of Defense.


He needs to look presidential, stay on task and above the fray.


He is doing all these things that you're saying he should do. Not sure why you keep making the same point. People making noise has nothing to do with his focus.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby RiverDog » Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:17 pm

What I said was that I want him to focus on nothing but the pandemic and not to cave in to pressure from Democrats like that goon ball from NJ. To Biden's great credit, he has resisted the urging of some members of his party and I like the way he's gone about putting together his cabinet, including his expected appointment to Secretary of Defense.


He needs to look presidential, stay on task and above the fray.


I-5 wrote:He is doing all these things that you're saying he should do. Not sure why you keep making the same point. People making noise has nothing to do with his focus.


He's saying and doing the right things now, but that doesn't mean he will 2 months from now.

Those people making noise are going to be banging on his door come Jan. 20th.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby I-5 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:44 pm

What I like is that he clearly is surrounding himself with leaders that he trusts and will lean on, whether we're talking about the pandemic, or the military. Yes, he's the Commander in Chief, but most of the job of POTUS is being a master administrator, and he is showing a lot of skill so far. It's so nice to have real leadership again.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby RiverDog » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:28 pm

I-5 wrote:What I like is that he clearly is surrounding himself with leaders that he trusts and will lean on, whether we're talking about the pandemic, or the military. Yes, he's the Commander in Chief, but most of the job of POTUS is being a master administrator, and he is showing a lot of skill so far. It's so nice to have real leadership again.

I agree. I haven't seen any of his nominees to cabinet positions that I have profound objections to. Biden is IMO pushing the right buttons and throwing the right levers...so far.

I have an almost singular expectation for Biden: End the pandemic and the associated economic and social distress surrounding it.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby I-5 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:25 pm

I have an almost singular expectation for Biden: End the pandemic and the associated economic and social distress surrounding it.


Of course, that's the first job, and nothing can happen unless that happens first. But there's a lot of other great work to be done, like reaffirming our international alliances that Trump inexplicably tried his best to sabotage or outright destroy (and for no good reason, unless someone is pulling his strings). One thing I don't want to see is Biden play too nice with China. I don't think they're to be trusted, just as Russia isn't to be trusted.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:40 am

I have an almost singular expectation for Biden: End the pandemic and the associated economic and social distress surrounding it.


I-5 wrote:Of course, that's the first job, and nothing can happen unless that happens first. But there's a lot of other great work to be done, like reaffirming our international alliances that Trump inexplicably tried his best to sabotage or outright destroy (and for no good reason, unless someone is pulling his strings). One thing I don't want to see is Biden play too nice with China. I don't think they're to be trusted, just as Russia isn't to be trusted.


Agreed, although Russia is a small time player compared to China...economically speaking.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:40 am

These Senate seats in Georgie are the key to Biden's first 2 years.

I've heard a lot about how great divided government is but a republican senate that refuses to even accept Biden's clear win a month later will fight every nominee, every proposal, the mining on his son has already started with calls for Trump to have Barr appoint a special prosecutor to investigate a tax case that was initiated in 2018 that suddenly pops up a few days before the electors vote :lol: :lol: :lol: :cry: .Barr already gave John Durham who is investigating the russian investigators SC powers to saddle Biden with that throughout his administration.

If anyone thinks the gridlock and chaos of the last administration was bad imagine Mitch McConnel being the undertaker of every move Biden makes.

I think america is FUBAR honestly. Lock and load. Love your family. This is not gonna end well.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:53 am

Hawktawk wrote:These Senate seats in Georgie are the key to Biden's first 2 years.


I don't think it's as big as everyone is making it out to be. The Democrats margin would be so thin that they would need every single Dem to line up to get any partisan issue through and now that Justice Ginsberg has passed on, there's no SCOTUS appointments that loom on the horizon.

Hawktawk wrote:I think america is FUBAR honestly. Lock and load. Love your family. This is not gonna end well.


I have a bit more confidence in our nation than you do.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Dec 10, 2020 8:57 am

RiverDog wrote:
Agreed, although Russia is a small time player compared to China...economically speaking.


Yeah well that is part of the problem with Russia. They have a third world economy and far and away the most sophisticated lethal modern nuclear arsenal, the best subs, most launching programs, superior hypersonic missile capability. They have learned in proxy wars in iraq and syria they cant stand up to the big green machine on the ground in conventional warfare. I dont think they want to even try.

Not sure who all may have read the article on the commander in chief thread about russia working on satellite killer missile, may already have the technology developed. Blind us.The potential for a nuclear pearl harbor than could devastate america, decapitate it with a first strike on a flat footed overconfident foe is very real.70 % of our arsenal is a sitting duck, 100%if they can blind us. Beyond that Putin and the chinese premier meet regularly and Putin has discusses a military alliance.

I've never understood the dismissal of the peril posed by russia.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Dec 10, 2020 9:07 am

RiverDog wrote:I don't think it's as big as everyone is making it out to be. The Democrats margin would be so thin that they would need every single Dem to line up to get any partisan issue through and now that Justice Ginsberg has passed on, there's no SCOTUS appointments that loom on the horizon.


I have a bit more confidence in our nation than you do.


Biden will need the senate to build his cabinet or they will lock him down for months, cripple his administration. They are already doing it. It doesn't matter how sensible and qualified the people are they will fight every one of them.

I have no faith in our nation right now. Our experiment with democracy is a failure. Yes Biden may be seated on Jan 2020 but in the midst of the worst crisis in 100 years formerly respectable lawmakers have been castrated so thoroughly they are willing to play gotcha for votes. They are propping up a madman. Tens of millions of americans want to play along. They wont even wear masks or avoid large gatherings. They will never accept Biden.

Our nation has not been this FUBAR in my lifetime and unless Biden is the second coming of Christ he will not heal the nation. Oh I digress they crucified Christ so maybe its a good analogy. I dont see how we unscramble the egg, ever.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby mykc14 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:33 am

Hawktawk wrote:

I have no faith in our nation right now. Our experiment with democracy is a failure.


Really.. it's over? CNN has you that scared that you think democracy in our country is a failure? It isn't perfect, nor has it ever been, nor will it ever be because it is ran by imperfect people. The creators of our government could never have foreseen the role that major corporations or technology could eventually influence the leaders of our country. The also didn't create the government with the idea that we would be a world power. They didn't really have other blueprints to use as their guides in constructing our country and they obviously weren't perfect. What they did, though, is understand that they didn't know what would/could become of our country. They set it up so that it could change over time. They protected Americans from any person/crazy dictator from taking over- which is what you are incredibly scared of. Donald Trump is not an example of the democracy in our country failing, he is an example of our democracy succeeding. You may not like the idea of Republicans in the Senate slowing Biden's presidency down, but I guarantee you loved the Dems in the House making life miserable for Trump. Ideally politicians will make bi-partisan decisions that are best for our country and voters will be educated and will always vote for the best candidate, but that will never happen.

Don't you see that you and the 'Crazy-Trumpers' are different sides of the same coin? Both are manipulated by a media that has an agenda. If you believe that democracy in our country is a failure wouldn't that make you more willing to move on from democracy to, I don't know, maybe something like SOCIALISM??? That's what all those crazy Trump supporters are worried about anyway- and they think it is a possibility because Fox news tells them that it is. I can tell by your writing that you are smart. You should just stop watching CNN, sit back and watch Democracy work over the next few months as Biden takes office and then over the next few years as the Republicans distance themselves from Trump. If Republicans do win the Senate again and they make some things difficult for Biden, just think to yourself- thank God the Dem's controlled the House during Trump's presidency. It works both ways...
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby mykc14 » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:35 am

Hawktawk wrote:
They will never accept Biden.




So what? How many Dem's accepted Trump? And before you throw out the idea that the Dem's weren't violent like these crazy, gun-totin' Republicans I would remind you that most of the violent- Antifa style protests we saw this summer were from Liberals. I know you think Dem's are smarter than the dumb Republicans who voted for Trump so they wouldn't react in a violent way like the dumb Trump supporters, I would argue that they are just as smart, principled, and want to avoid any sort of gun violence as the Dems as an overall group. I know you are worried about the 10% or 5% or 1% or whatever, but at the end of the day they won't do anything, just like the crazy 10%, or 5%, or 1% of Dem's didn't do anything 4 years ago... Like River mentioned, I would be more worried about a mass shooting than an armed militia trying to re-take the presidency for Trump.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Dec 10, 2020 10:47 am

Hawktawk wrote:Biden will need the senate to build his cabinet or they will lock him down for months, cripple his administration. They are already doing it. It doesn't matter how sensible and qualified the people are they will fight every one of them.


No, they won't. Biden is getting as much if not more blow back from his own party as he is Republicans. He'll get his cabinet.

Hawktawk wrote:I have no faith in our nation right now. Our experiment with democracy is a failure. Yes Biden may be seated on Jan 2020 but in the midst of the worst crisis in 100 years formerly respectable lawmakers have been castrated so thoroughly they are willing to play gotcha for votes. They are propping up a madman. Tens of millions of americans want to play along. They wont even wear masks or avoid large gatherings. They will never accept Biden.


The Republicans never accepted Clinton, the Democrats never accepted Reagan, the Republicans never accepted Obama, the Democrats never accepted Bush. BFD.

Hawktawk wrote:Our nation has not been this FUBAR in my lifetime and unless Biden is the second coming of Christ he will not heal the nation. Oh I digress they crucified Christ so maybe its a good analogy. I dont see how we unscramble the egg, ever.


I take it that you were not conscious of events during the late 60's and early 70's as I was.

I had hoped that I was speaking in jest about backing away from the window. Please, for the love of God, calm down. There's a lot more to life than what's going on in the world of politics.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Dec 10, 2020 11:18 am

RiverDog wrote:


I take it that you were not conscious of events during the late 60's and early 70's as I was.

I had hoped that I was speaking in jest about backing away from the window. Please, for the love of God, calm down. There's a lot more to life than what's going on in the world of politics.


Again you underestimate the seriousness of current situation greatly. Im well aware of the racial protests, the anti war protests, the kent state incident. It still pales in comparison to a president who is clearly the loser in votes who is straining our system to the breaking point in the middle of the greatest health emergency in 100 years. 5 weeks after the APs call no less and most of the congressional republicans minus exactly 24 members are silent as he tweets out this stuff just today...
https://www.mediaite.com/trump/this-is- ... -election/

how this is not illegal behavior that should get him locked up immediately is beyond me. he's inciting violence. Beyond that the Wisconsin lower courts have agreed to breathe life back into Trumps suit again. It will go back to a conservative SC that had ruled it needed to be brought in lower court first.

I will believe it when I see it, RD. Like a Seahawks game, when its 00:00 I relax. Maybe its why Im so paranoid :D :D :D .

I'm glad you can relax ok. This isn't about politics or some righteous crusade anymore. This is life and death of democracy.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:23 pm

Hawktawk wrote:I will believe it when I see it, RD. Like a Seahawks game, when its 00:00 I relax. Maybe its why Im so paranoid :D :D :D .

I'm glad you can relax ok. This isn't about politics or some righteous crusade anymore. This is life and death of democracy.


OK, you win. Let's re-visit this subject on Jan. 21st, if we all live that long.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Dec 10, 2020 3:59 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Yeah well that is part of the problem with Russia. They have a third world economy and far and away the most sophisticated lethal modern nuclear arsenal, the best subs, most launching programs, superior hypersonic missile capability. They have learned in proxy wars in iraq and syria they cant stand up to the big green machine on the ground in conventional warfare. I dont think they want to even try.

Not sure who all may have read the article on the commander in chief thread about russia working on satellite killer missile, may already have the technology developed. Blind us.The potential for a nuclear pearl harbor than could devastate america, decapitate it with a first strike on a flat footed overconfident foe is very real.70 % of our arsenal is a sitting duck, 100%if they can blind us. Beyond that Putin and the chinese premier meet regularly and Putin has discusses a military alliance.

I've never understood the dismissal of the peril posed by russia.


Break it down for us. Explain to us why Russia wants a World War. What it gains. How it plans to invade and take advantage of a World War. If you provide a good analysis of why Russia benefits from a World War or how they expect to win, some of us might listen.

Our view of Russia is based on the following:

1. Russia does not benefit from a world war, has no allies strong enough to back them, and will be destroyed while having the a population, economy, and culture insufficient to power them back to prominence.

2. Russia doesn't have a strong enough Navy to invade anyone at sea. They are a mostly land-locked nation. So their target is nations that have already broken off from them they haven't been able to control which would further stretch their resources.

3. Russia relies on foreign trade for oil, minerals, and other natural resources it trades mainly with Europe and China. Its already weak economy would be absolutely decimated in a war with just about anyone.

4. Russia's political standing is weak as well given the primary form of competition in the modern day is economic. There is little reason for any nation to support a bid by Russia to expand militarily except perhaps North Korea.

Russia is not the powerful nation it was in the 80s when it was expanding the U.S.S.R. It's a heavily land-locked nation with a shrinking population and a national resource based economy without a strong technological service sector or manufacturing base with little support.

We're not dismissing Russia, so much as the clear proof is that Russia is not expanding power, not economically powerful, and relies heavily on supposed enemy nations for their economic well being such as their trade with Germany. Some of us wondering why some American politicians are trying to rebuild Russia as the boogeyman when they are no longer the expanding Soviet Empire of the past and China is the second largest and growing economy in the world with four times our population, a clear desire to control information including rewriting America out of history, the power to force American companies and entities like the NBA to comply with their laws and information control including shrugging about Hong Kong being forcibly controlled, and their expanding military with enough of a population size to in the most extreme of scenarios kill every American in America and repopulate our nation without blinking an eye.

You looking at Russia while this behemoth known as China continues to grow by stealing technology, forcing other nations to comply with it, using its economic power to crush opposition to its crimes, and even basically caused a global pandemic through its irresponsible handling of a virus including lying about its numbers and the spread is like someone worried about a mouse while King Kong is about to rampage across the nation.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby Aseahawkfan » Thu Dec 10, 2020 4:08 pm

Hawktawk wrote:Again you underestimate the seriousness of current situation greatly. Im well aware of the racial protests, the anti war protests, the kent state incident. It still pales in comparison to a president who is clearly the loser in votes who is straining our system to the breaking point in the middle of the greatest health emergency in 100 years. 5 weeks after the APs call no less and most of the congressional republicans minus exactly 24 members are silent as he tweets out this stuff just today...
https://www.mediaite.com/trump/this-is- ... -election/

how this is not illegal behavior that should get him locked up immediately is beyond me. he's inciting violence. Beyond that the Wisconsin lower courts have agreed to breathe life back into Trumps suit again. It will go back to a conservative SC that had ruled it needed to be brought in lower court first.

I will believe it when I see it, RD. Like a Seahawks game, when its 00:00 I relax. Maybe its why Im so paranoid :D :D :D .

I'm glad you can relax ok. This isn't about politics or some righteous crusade anymore. This is life and death of democracy.


I hope you have your weapons ready. If this has to be settled the hard way, we need to be ready. So far none of my friends are listening much to Trump any longer and don't plan to destroy the nation for this clown. But if places like Eastern Washington and where C-bob lives plans to step up, people gotta be ready to put them back down to maintain our nation.

You better stop being a pussy. Our ancestors fought a Revolutionary War, Civil War, two World Wars, a Civil Rights movement, and went through famine, Depression, a worse pandemic than this and the nation survived. Man up and prepare to do what Americans do to maintain their nation if need be. Donald Trump is not going to beat us, period.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby RiverDog » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:03 pm

Hawktawk wrote:I've never understood the dismissal of the peril posed by russia.


Aseahawkfan wrote:We're not dismissing Russia, so much as the clear proof is that Russia is not expanding power, not economically powerful, and relies heavily on supposed enemy nations for their economic well being such as their trade with Germany. Some of us wondering why some American politicians are trying to rebuild Russia as the boogeyman when they are no longer the expanding Soviet Empire of the past and China is the second largest and growing economy in the world with four times our population, a clear desire to control information including rewriting America out of history, the power to force American companies and entities like the NBA to comply with their laws and information control including shrugging about Hong Kong being forcibly controlled, and their expanding military with enough of a population size to in the most extreme of scenarios kill every American in America and repopulate our nation without blinking an eye.

You looking at Russia while this behemoth known as China continues to grow by stealing technology, forcing other nations to comply with it, using its economic power to crush opposition to its crimes, and even basically caused a global pandemic through its irresponsible handling of a virus including lying about its numbers and the spread is like someone worried about a mouse while King Kong is about to rampage across the nation.


I'm with ASF on this one. China is a much greater threat, both economically, socially, and militarily. China is the most populous country on the planet, a very repressive regime, and an aggressive, predatory economic system that doesn't play fair. Where is the root cause of our 250k+ deaths we've experienced over the past 9 months located? It's not in Russia.

I'm not downplaying the Russians, but they're more of a regional threat to the EU and the Middle East than they are a global one. Like ASF said, they aren't the same country as they were when they called themselves the USSR.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Dec 10, 2020 5:18 pm

mykc14 wrote:
They will never accept Biden.




So what? How many Dem's accepted Trump? And before you throw out the idea that the Dem's weren't violent like these crazy, gun-totin' Republicans I would remind you that most of the violent- Antifa style protests we saw this summer were from Liberals. I know you think Dem's are smarter than the dumb Republicans who voted for Trump so they wouldn't react in a violent way like the dumb Trump supporters, I would argue that they are just as smart, principled, and want to avoid any sort of gun violence as the Dems as an overall group. I know you are worried about the 10% or 5% or 1% or whatever, but at the end of the day they won't do anything, just like the crazy 10%, or 5%, or 1% of Dem's didn't do anything 4 years ago... Like River mentioned, I would be more worried about a mass shooting than an armed militia trying to re-take the presidency for Trump.


I never watch CNN although sometimes I link their print articles. I read my news on the Drudge report, have for a decade or more.

Its like you people are in denial or under a rock. Hillary Clinton conceded at 1 AM night of the election in a razor thin loss in the rust belt. She personally called DT night of and in her concession speech she said "we need to give Donald a chance". Obama invited him to the WH day after, was welcoming and cordial to a man who had spent years viciously attacking him. The losing party gave him the chance every incoming president has gotten till now, an orderly peaceful transition of power. After that it's up to the man who did very little to help himself.Trump never reached across the aisle one time in 4 years so he wasn't going to get a chance. He never broke 50%.

Bidens already polling better than he ever did even in transition.

Joe Biden on the other hand was declared the winner a month plus ago and Trumps tweeting he's won,going on about a "dangerous escalation" menacing lawmakers to the point ONE HUNDRED members of the house have now joined a movement to fight the electors in the congress. They are pressuring Senators to join them, so far without much success. But its all about the campaign for house seats that will start the day after the inauguration. They are placing enormous pressure on the SCOTUS with the sheer amount of constituents represented in these lawsuits.If its so frivolous why hasn't it been settled already like the Penslyvania suit? They are inciting riots. As we are awash in pamdemic.

As Mitt Romney says, its "madness". Truly chilling as our allies look on in horror and our enemies laugh and lick their chops.

You're in denial. As for antifa more white supremacists were arrested than antifa protesters, also i believe the death toll was 2 killed and 1 injured by gunfire by white supremacist and 1 promise keeper neo nazi killed by antifa in portland. They were not just fighting themselves, proud boys and promise keepers etc were there too, its just the trumpies framed it better.

And none of that has a GD thing to do with a president off the rails during a pandemic trying to literally override 80 million people.
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Re: Jail to the thief?

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:34 am

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... ges-filed/
Interesting looking back to these threads a few weeks old in this moving story. So Is Trumptard a flight risk? Its almost certain he will face legal jeopardy, he's pretty much blown the pardon angle. Or will he just allow his insurgents to intimidate lawmakers and law enforcement, judges etc to stay out of jail.
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