Action against sedition?

[c_hawkbob]

Ran across this on twitter, thought I'd share: https://twitter.com/BillPascrell/status ... 3752453120



For the record, I agree!

[NorthHawk]

Interesting point of view. I wonder if lawyers think it's doable.
Wouldn't it cause more strife in the country, though? Or would it be akin to lancing a boil in order to heal?

[c_hawkbob]

Interesting point of view. I wonder if lawyers think it's doable.
Wouldn't it cause more strife in the country, though? Or would it be akin to lancing a boil in order to heal?

I like if for it's prophylactic effect going forward. If congress knows there will be a price to pay for backing the subversion of the electoral process they might not be so quick to jump on that particular bandwagon in the future.

I don't think it'll happen but I do wish it would, we can't let the current climate become the norm.

[RiverDog]

While I might personally agree, pushing for something like that is not going to heal the wounds. IMO it would have the exact opposite effect and enable another Trump clone to emerge.

[Aseahawkfan]

We will see what the Republicans do when it comes time to confirm the electoral votes. If they play games and attempt to sow division claiming a stolen election, then we will see about sedition charges.

[Hawktawk]

These people should all be doing time including the President.

This is dangerous. People were shot and stabbed last night over this lie. Electors and elections officials, politicians who did the right thing fear for their lives. Tens of millions of peoples minds are being poisoned.

We are watching the death throes of the most unhinged dangerous commander in chief in our history. Hes fomenting civil war.Hes beyond unfit.
Its a perfect storm, pandemic, crazy vindictive president and castrated sheep in his party who care more about being tweeted out of office than the wellbeing of us all.
he and they should face at a minimum civil penalties and Id say jail time starting right now.

[Hawktawk]

While I might personally agree, pushing for something like that is not going to heal the wounds. IMO it would have the exact opposite effect and enable another Trump clone to emerge.

RD these wounds aren't going to heal no matter what happens. Millions of people have normalized crazy unamerican behavior. They need to learn the hard way. As Lincoln project founders Steve Schmidt said yesterday" were an election away from people who dont believe in democracy."

There needs to be a reckoning for this. Im one of the 80 million who demand it.

[RiverDog]

There needs to be a reckoning for this. Im one of the 80 million who demand it.

80 million people don't demand it. You're exaggerating again.

My position on this issue is the same as my position on pursuing Trump through the courts. If I thought that removing every single R that supported the Texas lawsuit would solve the problem and heal the nation's wounds, I'd be 100% for it.

But it's not at all clear that this will solve the problem and heal the wounds. IMO all it's going to do is to continue to pour fuel on the fire, continue the hate, continue the irrational behavior, foster an environment where a person like Trump or even Trump himself can win back the presidency.

I like the way Biden is handling all of this. He has not taken a position on any of these let's get even, make them pay schemes.

[NorthHawk]

Maybe RD is right and the best way is to let Trump naturally fade from the spotlight. Being prosecuted gives him a larger platform to spew his nonsense and provides
him with a way to continue his influence on the Republican party. He wants to be the king maker (or better yet, the king) and keep his options open for running again.
Prosecuting him would keep him relevant and there's no guarantee of conviction.

[RiverDog]

One has to keep in mind what the purpose of the 14th was. It was adapted 3 years after the conclusion of the Civil War and it's purpose was to prevent a re-constitution of the confederate cause. Here's the operative paragraph of the 14th:

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

It's a real stretch to apply that phrase to the acts engaged in by Congressional Republicans. While I agree that it was a repulsive and disgraceful move on their part, all they have done is voice their support for an initiative put before a court of law. That's not the same thing as a "rebellion or insurrection" as envisioned by the 14th.

[c_hawkbob]

I don't think it's a stretch at all, it's just your usual tendency to downplay things. There is at least as much reason to use the 14th as justification for this action as you're saying there is not to. The 14th was drafted quite specifically to prevent this very scenario. We are a hair's breadth from one party in our two party system outright denouncing democracy as a system of governance.

[RiverDog]

I don't think it's a stretch at all, it's just your usual tendency to downplay things. There is at least as much reason to use the 14th as justification for this action as you're saying there is not to. The 14th was drafted quite specifically to prevent this very scenario. We are a hair's breadth from one party in our two party system outright denouncing democracy as a system of governance.

A hair's breadth? If I have a tendency to downplay things, you have a tendency to exaggerate them.

Good luck convincing a 6-3 conservative majority of your argument. All this initiative will accomplish would be to widen the divide and continue the hate.

[c_hawkbob]

Not all it would do at all. It would say, loudly and clearly "NO, you can't subvert the will of the American people! We work for them!"

[RiverDog]

Not all it would do at all. It would say, loudly and clearly "NO, you can't subvert the will of the American people! We work for them!"

Sure, one side would say that loudly and clearly. The other side would say just as loudly and clearly that the Dems are not only trying to pack SCOTUS through an unconventional, unprecedented method, they're trying to pack Congress as well.

As principled as such an initiative might be, evoking the 14th to remove Congressmen from office without a vote of the American people wouldn't be anymore successful than impeachment was at removing Trump from office without a vote of the American people. You're looking to achieve the goals that you failed at in an election by finding some other way to get around "the will of the people".

We have Congressional elections every 2 years. My suggestion would be to keep your powder dry and not expend it on fruitless efforts like what you're proposing.