Aseahawkfan wrote:the electoral vote, what will the Democrats do? Will they roll over and redo the election? If the Republicans force them to fight, will they fight or roll over?
That occasion may arrive January 6th. Will the Democrats fight or roll over like a beaten dog? What do you think?
c_hawkbob wrote:Republicans down here are already refusing to acknowledge. No need to wait!
RiverDog wrote:Republicans in general won't acknowledge Biden anymore than Dems refused to acknowledge George Bush.
Despite all the threats of violence, I haven't heard any reports of any shenanigans associated with the electoral college vote, at least not yet. Has anyone else?
c_hawkbob wrote:Republicans down here are already refusing to acknowledge. No need to wait!
It seems we are getting dangerously close to I5, Hawktawk, and C-bob being right and Trump having sufficient supporters to start a violent Civil War over this election that will require the Democrats to step up and fight back. Will they do it?
Aseahawkfan wrote:No, other than Republicans having Republican appointed electors cast their state's votes for Trump in case the courts overturn or the Republican Senate refuses to confirm the vote to force a redo of the election.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/530092-stephen-miller-alternate-electors-will-keep-trump-challenge-alive-post
That's why I am asking. If the Republican Senate refuses to confirm the electoral vote and pushes to force a redo of the election, what will the Democrats do? Roll over like a whipped dog or fight?
Aseahawkfan wrote:It seems we are getting dangerously close to I5, Hawktawk, and C-bob being right and Trump having sufficient supporters to start a violent Civil War over this election that will require the Democrats to step up and fight back. Will they do it?
Aseahawkfan wrote:Putin has acknowledged Biden as president. Maybe that means Trump will stand down if Trump is Russia's puppet.
RiverDog wrote:You're asking a purely hypothetical question. The Republican Senate can't force a redo, not by themselves. For one, there's not enough of them. Besides, more and more R's are acknowledging that Biden has won the election. It's over.
Now it seems as you're the one that's listening to the hysterical left wing media. Trump is doing the same thing that he's done in the previous 4 years: Keep his base stirred up. That's all he cares about.
The election law requiring the counting of the Electoral College by Congress is pretty loosely written, so there's libel to be some procedural challenges when they convene on Jan. 6th, but it's not going to result in the tossing out of the results.
People were expecting violence in Washington, DC and at various state capitols yesterday as the electoral college vote was cast, but there wasn't. What happened?
Aseahawkfan wrote:I was only worried if the Republican Senate refused to confirm the vote on January 6th as some were pushing for. Good to know the Republican Senate unlike the House refused to coddle Trump. After the House of Representatives joined up with the clown show Texas lawsuit, I was a bit worried the Senate Republicans would start a problem.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I have to say you are downplaying things. If you read up on revolutions, it doesn't take much to set one off when you already have the ingredients for a violent revolution to start: well armed population, major political division, a political party willing to back a loon like Trump, and a president willing to blow things up to hold power including surrounding himself completely with sycophants and supporters. All it would have taken is one serious match thrown and this could have been set off and might still be set off. One bad shooting or uprising and we could see a match lit that will have to be put out.
We shall see. I hope most of this talk is saber rattling. But if someone gets this going, I know a lot of armed Republicans are waiting for the call to revolution waiting for someone else to actually start it and Trump to call for it.
RiverDog wrote:This morning, Mitch McConnell has not only recognized Biden as the winner of the election, he's warning fellow Republicans not to force a "terrible vote" and appear as if they are against Trump. His comments were echoed by Senators Thune, Braun, and Blunt. Sen. Cornyn says he expects "a turning of the page on Jan. 20, when you'll have a peaceful transition." And he says, "There comes a time when you have to realize that despite your best efforts, you've been unsuccessful." Even Lindsey Graham, the most notorious Trump butt kisser, has admitted that Biden is now the President-elect and has had what Graham described as a "pleasant 10 minute conversation."
https://www.startribune.com/the-latest- ... 600001458/
I regard those pols as being a day late and a dollar short and personally feel that they have disgraced themselves, but it shows that there's a slow but definite movement by Republicans to lay down their swords and accept the results of the election. That along with the fact that contrary to these hysterical fears of an impending revolution, we have not had any widespread demonstrations or acts of violence is a strong indication that the fever is subsiding. There's another 3 weeks for the country to 'get over' the electoral college vote before Congress convenes to certify the results.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I am resting much easier seeing McConnell pretty much destroy Trump's hope of help. I know some may disagree, but I think McConnell will hurt Trump badly if Trump goes after him. It won't be in public or direct, but it will be bad for Trump. McConnell is a different kind of political animal who works in a very cold and calculating manner. He doesn't like a messy house and especially doesn't like a the mess going public. Trump's left a very messy house.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I didn't think I would see a revolution in my lifetime, but now I'm not so sure. Trump was a closer call than I expected. If this continues as it is right now, we may see a leader rise who divides this nation and starts a violent separation. These two sides are far apart on what they see as America in terms of economics, history, morals, and the like. They are attacking each other relentlessly. That's not a recipe for a good time.
RiverDog wrote:IMO the pandemic and associated lock-downs had a full moon effect on the country, pushed a lot of lunatics on both sides over the top. Toss that in with a man like Donald Trump speaking from the bully pulpit, a relatively close election and a longer than usual vote count, a long summer of unabated riots, the cancel culture and defund the police movements that's pushed the buttons of ultra conservatives/white supremist and caused them to react.
2020 was an anomaly, a perfect storm of events that's not likely to be repeated. I don't think things get completely back to normal, at least not right away, but IMO the worst has past.
Hawktawk wrote:McConnel may have been publicly congratulatory of Biden but privately he's begging fellow senators not to sign on to this crazy loser deal of challenging the vote in 5 states and forcing them to "look bad" voting against trump. It just makes me ill. These are just soulless political animals with no core values regarding decency.
I dont think McConnell has ever worried about Trump attacking him personally, just what his attacks on others can do to his power. Right now his power hinges on 2 seats in Georgia. My guess is their polling is showing their continued holdout by trump and mixed message to their voters is hurting his grip on power.
In a way it makes sense. Polls show 25% of republicans give or take believe Biden won. I've heard the opinion its actually surprisingly it isn't 5% which is true. There has been significant erosion in Trump's support since the election. At some point you would think any red blooded american of any political persuasion would tell this whiney biatch to STFU and GTFO.
I have friends who still believe their vote for Trump was the right thing for the nation and Biden is a pawn of the left.
They're waiting for someone to start a revolution they can join.
I-5 wrote:Somehow this does not sound much different from a few years ago when everyone was talking about how someone could be 'radicalized' by ISIS. Except this time, it's the POTUS who is the source. Convince me I'm wrong.
I have friends who still believe their vote for Trump was the right thing for the nation and Biden is a pawn of the left.
I-5 wrote:Somehow this does not sound much different from a few years ago when everyone was talking about how someone could be 'radicalized' by ISIS. Except this time, it's the POTUS who is the source. Convince me I'm wrong.
I-5 wrote:Yeah, I’m not saying Trump is the only source, but that he is definitely one of them.
Many Democrats including some that post on this board believe:
1. Many minorities, especially folk of African descent, believe whites are out to get them and the entire country is racist.
2. Many Democrats teach that people with money our out to cheat and use them using dogwhistles (the new popular term) like wealth inequality to basically encourage those deemed middle class or poor to attack the rich.
3. We have real socialists, not just social Democrats, like Kshawa Sawant and AOC teaching that Amazon is the enemy and should be kept out of their cities. They do the same with other companies.
4. You already watched protests against the police and clear proof that the left and minorities believe police officers are the enemy and a tool of fascists.
I-5 wrote:For starters, I take 'many' to be 'almost all'...ha! This perspective is quite simplistic, and I find quite inaccurate.
1. I think that minorities, especially blacks, aren't focused on the idea that 'whites are out to get them' so much as the system we live in is designed to benefit others. It doesn't mean every white person is racist at all, but for example how the housing and education system to name just a couple have historically marginalized blacks. It's fairly well documented.
2. Again, no one is 'out to get anyone', it's the laws that are in place since Reagan that benefit the rich, many of whom are DEMOCRATS. It just is.
3. I don't think Sawant speaks for all, most, or even many democrats. I would say I'm pretty liberal, and I can't stand her. She doesn't speak for me, I would almost call Sawant an anarchist as much as socialist. By the way, I'm not socialist, nor will I ever be. But I do believe in social services which are a part of every major democracy including the US. It should be a nuanced conversation, but too many people on the right get paranoid about the details and want to label anything as 'commie' that prevents any useful dialogue.
4. The protests were against injustice by the police - not the police itself - and taking steps to remove institutional racism. One positive thing I've read lately is that some states are proposing a heightened education and age requirement for incoming police officers, as it's been proven those officers end up in less deadly confrontations. Illinois, New Jersey, and North Dakota already require their state officers to complete at least two years of college or some kind of equivalent before they enter the force. While no statistics show the direct impact of requirements, as of 2019 all three states were in the bottom 11 of those with the lowest number of police killings, according to MappingPoliceViolence.org.*
*https://www.vice.com/en/article/akd7wp/california-bill-require-police-officers-4-year-college-degree
Many Democrats including some that post on this board believe:
1. Many minorities, especially folk of African descent, believe whites are out to get them and the entire country is racist.
2. Many Democrats teach that people with money our out to cheat and use them using dogwhistles (the new popular term) like wealth inequality to basically encourage those deemed middle class or poor to attack the rich.
3. We have real socialists, not just social Democrats, like Kshawa Sawant and AOC teaching that Amazon is the enemy and should be kept out of their cities. They do the same with other companies.
4. You already watched protests against the police and clear proof that the left and minorities believe police officers are the enemy and a tool of fascists.
I-5 wrote:For starters, I take 'many' to be 'almost all'...ha! This perspective is quite simplistic, and I find quite inaccurate.
1. I think that minorities, especially blacks, aren't focused on the idea that 'whites are out to get them' so much as the system we live in is designed to benefit others. It doesn't mean every white person is racist at all, but for example how the housing and education system to name just a couple have historically marginalized blacks. It's fairly well documented.
2. Again, no one is 'out to get anyone', it's the laws that are in place since Reagan that benefit the rich, many of whom are DEMOCRATS. It just is.
3. I don't think Sawant speaks for all, most, or even many democrats. I would say I'm pretty liberal, and I can't stand her. She doesn't speak for me, I would almost call Sawant an anarchist as much as socialist. By the way, I'm not socialist, nor will I ever be. But I do believe in social services which are a part of every major democracy including the US. It should be a nuanced conversation, but too many people on the right get paranoid about the details and want to label anything as 'commie' that prevents any useful dialogue.
4. The protests were against injustice by the police - not the police itself - and taking steps to remove institutional racism. One positive thing I've read lately is that some states are proposing a heightened education and age requirement for incoming police officers, as it's been proven those officers end up in less deadly confrontations. Illinois, New Jersey, and North Dakota already require their state officers to complete at least two years of college or some kind of equivalent before they enter the force. While no statistics show the direct impact of requirements, as of 2019 all three states were in the bottom 11 of those with the lowest number of police killings, according to MappingPoliceViolence.org.*
*https://www.vice.com/en/article/akd7wp/california-bill-require-police-officers-4-year-college-degree
Like I said, the above shows what I'm talking about. My buddy doesn't agree with you and never will for a variety of reasons you won't agree with him. He's tired of you telling him that he's wrong and it sounds like you don't want him telling you that you're wrong.
I-5 wrote:4. The protests were against injustice by the police - not the police itself - and taking steps to remove institutional racism. One positive thing I've read lately is that some states are proposing a heightened education and age requirement for incoming police officers, as it's been proven those officers end up in less deadly confrontations. Illinois, New Jersey, and North Dakota already require their state officers to complete at least two years of college or some kind of equivalent before they enter the force. While no statistics show the direct impact of requirements, as of 2019 all three states were in the bottom 11 of those with the lowest number of police killings, according to MappingPoliceViolence.org.*
*https://www.vice.com/en/article/akd7wp/california-bill-require-police-officers-4-year-college-degree
Aseahawkfan wrote:
Right now the right is saying Biden is an illegitimate president who will be a pawn of the left.
I told you guys years ago there would be payback for the Trump is a Russian spy BS and here is the payback. Just like the Russian Spy BS is payback for the Birther conspiracy and attacks on Hilary. We can't continue to vote for these leaders whose idea of leadership is tearing down the other guy because they aren't very capable leaders who can win on the merit of their platform and ability to lead. It's a real bad situation right now where becoming president of the United States is less about being good at leadership and more about proving the other guy is worse or a villain.
It's real hard to have a rational citizenry when what passes for journalism is opinion by talking heads paid millions to get people to buy into their viewpoint. Many influencer groups in our nation have created a very divided America that I can't see changing any time soon unless we start to have real liberty again where a person isn't having viewpoints forced down their throat in public. It didn't work well at any point in our history and it isn't going to work well now.
c_hawkbob wrote:Thank you for sorting the truth out from that obvious far right starting point.
Just to add to #2, if you don't think wealth inequity is real, growing and intentional your an easy mark. I don't care what you call it, trickle down economics is the biggest con in the country's history. And all that money that doesn't trickle down, also doesn't maintain roads, fund social security or maintain an educational system that can compete on the world stage. It's not just about what I have vs what Jeff Bezos has. It's the amount of money the country is lacking for the sake of keeping Wall Street happy.
Hawktawk wrote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/08/18/senates-big-russia-report-what-we-learned-what-it-means/
The problem ASEA is Russia isn't BS. This is just a few excerpts from a 1000 page REPUBLICAN written Senate panel snuck out last august in the middle of a pandemic and presidential race. Trump welcomed Russian Interference, begged for it, praised wikileaks. Several of his campaign people are described by senate republicans as an extreme national security risk. Manafort is described as a Russian agent in the report .
The report makes clear that cover ups by people like Stone, Manafort, etc made it impossible to get all the facts. As it was Trump committed obstruction of justice answering questions about collusion, perjured himself in WRITTEN ANSWERS . Most recently it was learned that Rod Rosenstein was a double agent on the presidents behalf, publicly directing Mueller to examine "any and all" connections between Russia and Trump but privately forbidding Mueller to look at anything other than provable conspiracy with Russia, indictable offenses. Trumps business dealings were off limits. The democrats in the house losing their Sh$t over Mueller not subpoening Trumps bank records know why now.
And its a main reason Trump is so scared to lose his protection and doing everything he can to overturn this.
I really get tired of hearing about Russian "BS" Ill never get why so many freedom loving flag waving patriots are cool with russia having their idol in his pocket? I guess they dont care if they get to have him as dear leader.
Now this election on the other hand, only an idiot believes it was stolen. A willing idiot, a cult member. I guess if they dont care if the electoral process of america is subverted by a deposed king they dont care about russia.
I read scary as F stuff about Russia every day including a huge security breach of all our govt agencies including the pentagon that was just discovered a few days ago after who knows how long? They tested sub and launcher fired ICBMs over the weekend, tested a satellite killing missile yesterday.
Hey no big deal right? You worried about the second amendment? your 401 K? border security, police reform? (tell your buddies Biden isn't for defunding the police, he was caught on tape telling party leaders than "defund the police" got the hell beat out of them down ballot. )Antifa Someone ripping down a statue? the other party being a bit too socially compassionate?
I worry about a nuclear pearl harbor, more now than ever. Your buddies america will be an ash if they think having a leader in Russia's pocket is no big thing
I worry a hell of a lot more about a party subverting democracy or enlisting russia to win a presidential election than some antifa F4#k burning stuff down in some liberal cesspool. When this is what became of the party of lincoln and reagan I'm outta there. This last 4 years is on Trump, the good, the bad and mostly ugly. Its a character flaw for anyone to accept DJT as the president of the united states because of some statement it makes or what they think they are gonna get out of it.
Then this ridiculously unamerican display now , the biggest loser ever and all these red blooded patriots are following him down the rat hole.. Worst president ever by a mile. Everyone plays gotcha on the other party but this is ridiculous. Hopefully it will destroy the party completely, tear it apart.
Here's the deal for your friends and mine that still want to play this game. You lost. Take your made in china red hat and stuff it. You are currently in a distinct minority, approximately one third of all total voters who think you got robbed. You wanna go at it? Bring it on, not just MAGA with guns..
I-5 wrote:Why does it matter if your buddy disagrees? You’re trying to presume what you think goes on inside democrats’ or liberal minds, and I’m saying you’re not accurate, at least in my case. Who cares if your buddy thinks the same as you? It’s still incorrect. How do you feel if I try to put words in your mouth?
What part of this are you missing? What I'm saying is there are 70 million people similar to my buddy out there who are never gonna listen to you and you are never gonna listen to them. That is a recipe for a revolution eventually.
I-5 wrote:I'm still amazed how many republicans actually are in denial that Trump lost.
I-5 wrote:What you're saying is nothing new at all. It's always been the same way forever - people view things differently with different lenses. If anything is different this time, we know it's because of you-know-who. The Radicalizer in Chief. As crazy as both sides have been, no one has been radicalized to the point of picking up a gun and starting a civil war since the last one ended. I don't think it will happen at this point, but if it does, I wouldn't be too surprised, and I don't think it will go very far. I'm still amazed how many republicans actually are in denial that Trump lost.
RiverDog wrote:Here's a quote from former President George W. Bush:
"Though we have political differences, I know Joe Biden to be a good man, who has won his opportunity to lead and unify our country," Bush had said. "The President-elect reiterated that while he ran as a Democrat, he will govern for all Americans. I offered him the same thing I offered Presidents Trump and Obama: my prayers for his success, and my pledge to help in any way I can."
It comes in the middle of a poke-in-the-eye via a Christmas card that Bush sent to Trump:
"May the light of the holiday season shine bright in your heart now and throughout the New Year," the card's message reads.
The painting and its title come from a former President who has in the past leveled veiled criticism against Trump's immigration policies and was one of the first Republican figures to congratulate President-elect Joe Biden on his election win. Bush's choice to make the Statue of Liberty central to his card is symbolic of his past critiques of Trump. The statue was often one of the first sights that new immigrants to America would see as they entered New York Harbor and contains a poem by Emma Lazarus that is famous for its phrase, "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
The poem itself was targeted by a Trump administration official in 2019 who suggested it should be revised to only include immigrants "who can stand on their own two feet."
The holiday card from the only living former Republican president comes as Trump and his GOP allies continue to deny his election loss even after the Electoral College on Monday affirmed Biden's win.
But Bush was quick to congratulate Biden last month, both in a phone call and in a statement that said while Trump has the right to pursue legal challenges and recounts, the 2020 race was "fundamentally fair" and "its outcome is clear."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... d=msedgntp
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