Presidential power

[Hawktawk]

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/22/-trump- ... robe-.html


The 4 blackwater guards, wow. One serving a life sentence for refusing cease fire orders, shooting women and children and only stopping when another blackwater operative pointed a gun at him. This is drawing international condemnation and likely risking our safety of our troops right at Christmas.Of course Eric Prince owner of Blackwater is the brother of Betsy Devos. Shades his pardon of Eddie Gallagher and Mara Lago invite last Christmas who stabbed an Iraqi teen and posed with the body, got off on killing people walking down the street unarmed. "freaking evil, would shoot at anything moving" was the testimony of a fellow seal. Then corrupt congressman convicted of white collar crimes, one raided his campaign coffers of nearly 200k to protect numerous affairs with staffers. And get ready. Next time he needs a distraction it will be a bunch more.He pardoned murderers including one doing life. I'm sure the families of his victims feel great. Its evil.
Then look at how he's basically committing sedition and there seems no way to stop him. Hes advocasting for an overthrow of the government and seems immune from consequences.

I had a thread long since buried on the topic but its so much more obvious now than presidents have WAY too much power. There aren't nearly the safeguards and layers of protection to guard against an unstable or undemocratic or possibly even treasonous president. He still has the authority to declare war, he's still got the nuclear football. His Pentagon has shut down briefings of Bidens team completely they say for at least 2 weeks coinciding with the massive security breach and the menacing actions of Russia militarily . As well as china now tailing US warships with its newest aircraft carrier. China and Russia conducted a first ever joint air patrol last week incursion into SK territory.
https://news.yahoo.com/korea-scrambles- ... 500.html.I feel we are in great peril when the incoming administration is flying blind in the face of crisis..

I suppose there's impeachment which is a drawn out process or the 25th amendment. I've advocated for it along with many professionals weeks into this administration but if it hasn't happened now it never will. Even with him trashing them and demonstrating clearly unhinged behavior, actually discussing martial law they won't do it.Impeachment and the 25th amendment are a joke. Presidents basically have impunity, immunity to do whatever they want.

I dont know if Joe Biden will do it or not but I'm thinking about writing him a letter suggesting he push for a presidential accountability amendment to bring some more oversight to the presidency. I doubt he would but Im sure nobody else will. I'm not sure what it would look like but something needs to change.

We were a couple hundred thousand votes in swing states from 4 more years of trump world and I'm sure his conduct wouldnt improve. We are headed for a fascist president in the future if their power continues to expand.

[Aseahawkfan]

I bet McConnell and Thune are regretting not voting this PoS out of office when they had the chance.

[I-5]

Here's another one: Trump wielding his waning power to veto the bipartisan National Defense Authorization Act....this will only hurt the US, and help its enemies. Who is pulling this guy's strings? He probably doesn't even know what's in the bill. I have a guess...

[Hawktawk]

I bet McConnell and Thune are regretting not voting this PoS out of office when they had the chance.

This right here.^^^^^^^^ What they regret more is that the man has such a solid rock core base they cant oppose him and stay in power. My bet if they had removed him from office which they knew to a person was the american thing to do they would all be lame ducks, most would have been primaried.

https://www.axios.com/gop-sen-ben-sasse ... 45789.html.

Including now this guy who lost his testes when he needed an endorsement but now he's a stand up guy .

As Jeff Flake who along with Bob Corker stepped aside rather than follow trump said of impeachment. "I know for a fact if this were a secret vote 35 R senators would vote to remove him." Corker referred to the west wing as "an adult day care" just short of 4 years ago, days after trump took office. Hear hear.
I really respect what Flake and Corker did. Rare to kiss your career goodbye over principle anymore. Corker could have been in the administration had he kissed ass.

I have a theory that had the party had a shred of integrity and got in Trump's face within the first weeks of the trump administration and called out his erratic actions and comments they could have reigned this in. Or at least brought it to a head before it became an out of control forest fire with one erratic man and some sycophants literally grinding the greatest nation on earth to a halt in unparallelled crisis times.Its widely reported the 25th amendment was floated very early in the administration and that there were cabinet officials on board although obviously not enough.

Now? Here we are. He didn't turn out to be the harmless fuzzball buffoon everyone told me he was.

It just doubles down on the point. We have to have some more mechanisms for reigning in an out of control chief executive that are not political in nature but based on traditional law enforcement guidelines, ie LAWS like we all have to live by. They could be submitted to the SCOTUS for emergency review before any final decision is made.They have proven fair regarding the law regardless of ideological makeup.

I keep hearing about disruption and harming the american people etc Nothing could be more disruptive than Trump being in the office. It's what the VP is for.

[Hawktawk]

Here's another one: Trump wielding his waning power to veto the bipartisan National Defense Authorization Act....this will only hurt the US, and help its enemies. Who is pulling this guy's strings? He probably doesn't even know what's in the bill. I have a guess...

Exactly I5. Not funding the pentagon even though the veto will be overridden.Hell they aren't briefing Biden at the pentagon. Stalling the stimulus/budget bill after his hand picked negotiator Mnunchin had assured lawmakers he would sign it. Humorous how he's now for 2k payments Pelosi and the dems have wanted since may Rs will have to vote down a pelosi unanimous consent vote on the 2k being on the wrong side of Trump and probably the american people.He doesn't care about the party that's given him free reign. He does not give a F about america, suffering, hes Pod about Covid, doesn't care about it at all other than getting credit for the vaccines. Which hundreds of thousands sit in warehouses because Pfizer doesn't know where to send them due to the ineptitude of this roll out.

Its a perfect storm .

[Hawktawk]

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/insurr ... ce=thehill

President's own attorney on far far fringe right newsmax advising against insurrection That's reassuring Reportedly Trump and many allies have gone away from Fox as it begins to find the Trump bridge a bit too far. This statement is a message to Trump. It's how the aides of this pres have conducted business for 4 years. TV helps him decide what to do. Clearly there's lots of fear among his allies about what he might do..

[Aseahawkfan]

Here's another one: Trump wielding his waning power to veto the bipartisan National Defense Authorization Act....this will only hurt the US, and help its enemies. Who is pulling this guy's strings? He probably doesn't even know what's in the bill. I have a guess...

Why do you think this guy who listens to no one but himself, not his family, not other Republicans, not his military, not anyone, listens to some foreign nation? He's just an a-hole. The contradictions in anti-Trumper thinking is just nuts.

Trump's dumb, but somehow he's smart enough to trick all the incredibly intelligent people we have in the intelligence community and our allies worldwide.

Trump's uncontrollable and crazy, unless you're Putin, then somehow you have something so bad on Trump that isn't worse than he's already been accused of that you maintain perfect control over this lunatic.

You want to know who's pulling the strings? Donald Trump and the crazy that resides in his head that makes him believe he's an "incredible genius", does everything perfectly, hasn't made any mistakes, and that everything he does is the greatest in history and everything done to him is the worst in history.

He's just a loon who does whatever he feels like doing when he feels like doing it. Right now he wants to rip apart the Republican and Democratic Parties, then start his own news station.

I don't even know why you have to keep this debunked garbage up. It's about as credible as his election fraud. He's crazy. That's why he does what he does. He doesn't do much with Russia because every time he hears the word Russia, he thinks it's some Democratic plot to get him.

That's the real evil of Donald Trump. Not only does he make his followers crazy, he makes those against him crazy. He has some weird power to shred people's sanity in a way I've never seen before. The only way to avoid it is to not listen.

[I-5]

Why do you think this guy who listens to no one but himself, not his family, not other Republicans, not his military, not anyone, listens to some foreign nation?

We’ve been saying over and over and over...the only reason Trump would listen to a leader of a foreign power is because he has an incentive to, either through compromising information or a financial leverage (Moscow Trump Tower). It’s not that unbelievable, and it explains his inexplicable words and actions on behalf of Russia the past 4 years.

Otherwise can anyone explain why Trump would point to China as the culprit for the massive cyber attack on our military secrets when everyone else including republicans know it is Russia? Why would he do that?

[NorthHawk]

With Trump it's all about Ego and Money. If he lost his money he would be shattered and there's a case for the money pointing to Russia.
It might be a good idea to list what we know.

Trump couldn't get loans from western banks.
Eric Trump has openly stated they get most of their money from Russia.
There are loans through DeutcheBank.
It's been alleged that Russian Mafia has laundered money via DeutcheBank.
Putin controls the Russian Mafia.
Trump has loans of at least $400 million coming due soon and some have said his loans are more like $700 million to $1 Billion.
Trump has had secret meeting with Putin and acquiesces to Putin on a regular basis and to the detriment of the US and western world.
Trump is called "Our man in Washington" by the Russians.

Trump has an image of being very wealthy and successful. If Russia should pull the loans or threaten to foreclose on the Trump business,
that could be a lot of leverage against Trump and his sense of self as he is is business. There doesn't seem to be much to separate the two.

[RiverDog]

With Trump it's all about Ego and Money. If he lost his money he would be shattered and there's a case for the money pointing to Russia.
It might be a good idea to list what we know.

Trump couldn't get loans from western banks.
Eric Trump has openly stated they get most of their money from Russia.
There are loans through DeutcheBank.
It's been alleged that Russian Mafia has laundered money via DeutcheBank.
Putin controls the Russian Mafia.
Trump has loans of at least $400 million coming due soon and some have said his loans are more like $700 million to $1 Billion.
Trump has had secret meeting with Putin and acquiesces to Putin on a regular basis and to the detriment of the US and western world.
Trump is called "Our man in Washington" by the Russians.

Trump has an image of being very wealthy and successful. If Russia should pull the loans or threaten to foreclose on the Trump business,
that could be a lot of leverage against Trump and his sense of self as he is is business. There doesn't seem to be much to separate the two.

I think that's a very plausible explanation. Ego, money, and sex are the only things that has ever motivated Donald Trump. We know he's not favoring them because they make good vodka.

[Aseahawkfan]

With Trump it's all about Ego and Money. If he lost his money he would be shattered and there's a case for the money pointing to Russia.
It might be a good idea to list what we know.

Trump couldn't get loans from western banks.
Eric Trump has openly stated they get most of their money from Russia.
There are loans through DeutcheBank.
It's been alleged that Russian Mafia has laundered money via DeutcheBank.
Putin controls the Russian Mafia.
Trump has loans of at least $400 million coming due soon and some have said his loans are more like $700 million to $1 Billion.
Trump has had secret meeting with Putin and acquiesces to Putin on a regular basis and to the detriment of the US and western world.
Trump is called "Our man in Washington" by the Russians.

Trump has an image of being very wealthy and successful. If Russia should pull the loans or threaten to foreclose on the Trump business,
that could be a lot of leverage against Trump and his sense of self as he is is business. There doesn't seem to be much to separate the two.

You are reaching. Trump has had loans for decades from various banks. He owns physical assets worth billions he can sell for the money he owes if need be. He can declare bankruptcy to avoid paying them back as he has done before. He has managed debt in the billions many times before. His physical assets are immense and he can sell them to cover billion dollar loans. But suddenly Putin through the Russian Mafia (who not even Mueller claimed to my knowledge) is going to pressure Trump?

You are engaging in conspiracy theory without proof.

For those who want some reality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_of_Donald_Trump#:~:text=Bloomberg%20Billionaires%20Index%20listed%20Trump's,as%20of%205%20March%202019.

Trump's net worth (assets-liabilities=net worth for those who don't know what net worth means) is around 2 to 3 billion based on estimates. That means he could pay off a 400 to 1 billion loan easily and still have a few billion left over. Which is plenty for Trump to live high on the hog. All this talk about banks not financing him is rubbish. Interest rates are so low right now Trump could finance billions of dollars on his properties easily in this low interest rate environment.

Not sure why Riverdog is buying into this conspiracy. Let's just say the financials don't fit. Trump isn't afraid to manage debt. He's done it for decades never going broke. But suddenly, he owes so much to Russia and the Russian Mob, that he's open to manipulation and our intelligence agencies and law enforcement are so snookered, they couldn't have hacked, investigated, or been given intelligence on a compromised person about to take the most powerful elected office in America?

Man, you are really not interested in evidence, I5. Not sure why you can't check your own information or think this through as other than some crime fiction movie that doesn't work like you think it works.

You keep on believing that our government doesn't already know where all Trump's skeletons are buried. You keep believing the Republican Party didn't vet him carefully. You keep believing the press didn't already crawl up his behind. You keep believing that FBI investigation Hilary and Obama started on Trump didn't dig into his finances deeply behind the scenes. You keep believing Mueller with all the power and support he was given by the Democrats and law-enforcement somehow couldn't figure out Trump's shady Russian ties and loans to Deutsche Bank.

This has been the most investigated president in the history of United States by a country mile and yet they all just couldn't find the ties to Russia that allow Putin to pull his strings. All these powerful Democrats, the F.B.I. a special investigator former Marine head of the F.B.I., Comey the fired F.B.I. director, a bunch of private citizen groups trying to bring Trump down, Wikileaks who has turned on Trump, the New York and California Attorney Generals, the House Finance Committee, Omarosa, Michael Cohen, and all the other former Trump allies that have turned on him, foreign agencies that have contacts with the Democratic Party like Christopher Steele who started the original Steele Dossier, and every liberal news organization in America and internationally with all their international contacts. Probably a list of people I can't even remember. Trump has been so thoroughly investigated and yet none of them could find the Kremlin Connection?

But Putin and Trump are so damn clever and smart at hiding things even though Trump can't even conceal a phone call to a Ukrainian president or conversations his wife has with her friends, that Putin has been able to control him from afar. Putin is just that must smarter and more capable than everyone else on this list and Trump by association is too.

If that is what you and everyone else including Riverdog want to believe, I guess have at it. I know a bunch of people that watched a few videos, listened to some specious evidence on election fraud, and completely buy into this election fraud even though officials of the Republican Party have told them the election was secure. I guess you all fall into that category.

Sort of like the people that still insist 9/11 was an inside job.

Maybe you'll keep believing it 20 years from now when Trump is dead and no further evidence is found. You'll just keep insisting that some how Trump was controlled by Putin even when the evidence isn't there.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think that's a very plausible explanation. Ego, money, and sex are the only things that has ever motivated Donald Trump. We know he's not favoring them because they make good vodka.

He's favoring them because he likes Russia. He likes going there and doing business there. Pretty simple. He's certainly not favoring them because they have some secret crap on him. Because if that got Trump to do what you wanted him to do, more than Putin would have him by the balls. He's done a lot of shady crap over the years. A lot of it has come out, he didn't seem to roll over for that. Not sure why he would roll over for any of it.

Trump's liked Russia since the 80s. Some people just like Russia. Not sure why that is hard to understand and accept. Does Russia have something on Angela Merkel and Germany? They do more business than us with Russia.

Why did Nixon open up to China? Did they have something on him? Or did he just think it was a good idea to do business with them.

Why do we overlook Saudi Arabia doing so much? Both Democrats and Republicans? Because we do a lot of business there.

There are a lot of explanations other than blackmail as to why Trump wants a better relationship with Russia. To my knowledge all this anti-Russia material has not been 100% proven and is being denied by Russia. Has Putin admitted to any of this? Is Russia so much better than us they can control the president and hack us and we can't do much about it? Is that where we're at, the so-called most powerful country in the world?

Why are we trusting intelligence agencies that tell us Russia hacked us or did this to us, but they can't stop the president of the United States from being manipulated by Russia? Can you really trust American intelligence if they can't figure out that Trump is the Kremlin Candidate?

That seems logical to you.

Sorry, this adds up about as well as 1+2=7. You can't have it all ways at once.

Trump can't be dumb, but able to fool all of America by colluding with Russia. We can't be the most powerful nation in the world, but have it so Russia beat all of our intelligence agencies to install a puppet president. You can't have it so you trust our intelligence agencies to figure out Russia hacked us and is doing all this terrible stuff to America, but they can't figure out how Putin is manipulating Trump.

This stuff is much like the 9/11 Truther movement. Lots of what ifs across several different nations that would take a level of coordination, prediction, and conspiring that is highly unlikely to occur. But if you want to buy in, have at it. We live in America. There are flat-earthers here.

I'll leave it there until new evidence comes out that changes my mind.

I'm going to hate Trump right now for being an autocrat trying to maintain control of the presidency because he believes he couldn't possibly have lost unless it was the worst election fraud in history. Never seen this in my life. When I watched Michael Flynn on a video trying to justify martial law to redo the election, it disgusted me. I'm glad no one of substance has brought up this option.

One thing we are united on is we all hate this pathetic human known as Trump and hope to never have to listen or watch him anywhere close to the White House or any American leadership position again. I hope he gets prosecuted for something, but this slippery bastard seems to avoid everything that ever gets thrown at him. He's 74. By the time they get anything on him he'll probably be closer to 76. By then, who cares.

[RiverDog]

I think that's a very plausible explanation. Ego, money, and sex are the only things that has ever motivated Donald Trump. We know he's not favoring them because they make good vodka.

He's favoring them because he likes Russia. He likes going there and doing business there. Pretty simple. He's certainly not favoring them because they have some secret crap on him. Because if that got Trump to do what you wanted him to do, more than Putin would have him by the balls. He's done a lot of shady crap over the years. A lot of it has come out, he didn't seem to roll over for that. Not sure why he would roll over for any of it.

I didn't say that the Russians have some secret crap on him, and I don't see any evidence that would suggest that, but it's not a possibility we can completely dismiss. What I am saying is that there has to be some sort of connection between Trump and Russia/Putin and that the only things that Trump responds to are things that strokes his ego, money, and sex. I am not buying that he just plain likes the Russia or the Russians. Trump doesn't "like" anyone unless they can do something for him. What North Hawk proposed is very believable IMO.

[I-5]

Let’s be real. Everything, even including his own family, means something transactional to Trump. That’s the only life he has known since he was a child, and watched how his brother went down. If he ‘likes’ Putin and Russia, there is something transactional in it. We just don’t have the info yet. Try explaining why he insists China is behind the cyber attack that everyone including Pompeo and Barr are definitively pinning on Russia.

[c_hawkbob]

Evidently HT isn't the only one that thinks that Trump could go completely off the rails and declare martial law:

According to a new report, ranking officers have discussed what they would do if the president declared martial law. ... Although experts do not believe the unprecedented move is possible, a report claims the military is still preparing for the unknown. According to a Newsweek exclusive story, the Pentagon is on red alert and ranking officers have discussed what they would do if the president decided to declare martial law. One officer anonymously detailed the nature of the planning.

“I’ve been associated with the military for over 40 years and I’ve never seen the discussions that are being had right now, the need for such discussions,” the unidentified source said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/military-ale ... 00241.html

Crazy times.

[RiverDog]

Evidently HT isn't the only one that thinks that Trump could go completely off the rails and declare martial law:

"According to a new report, ranking officers have discussed what they would do if the president declared martial law. ... Although experts do not believe the unprecedented move is possible, a report claims the military is still preparing for the unknown. According to a Newsweek exclusive story, the Pentagon is on red alert and ranking officers have discussed what they would do if the president decided to declare martial law. One officer anonymously detailed the nature of the planning.

“I’ve been associated with the military for over 40 years and I’ve never seen the discussions that are being had right now, the need for such discussions,” the unidentified source said."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/military-ale ... 00241.html

Crazy times.

You're nearly as old as I am, so you should remember that the same types of rumors came out during Nixon's last days.

[c_hawkbob]

No, I do not recall anything close to the Pentagon being on red alert over concerns that Nixon might declare martial law. The whole Nixon situation never came close to this. And I even read Hunter S Thompson. In fact I see Trump as the embodiment of Hunter's worst case imaginings of Nixon.

[I-5]

I was 6 years old in 1973 when Nixon resigned, so I don't have any personal recollections about politics of that period or any talk of Martial Law. What was actually said during that time regarding Nixon and Martial Law? In hindsight, Watergate now seems like such a genial affair, although it almost brought down the country, and Nixon himself, although vilified, still had the class to say this after reluctantly accepting a full pardon from his successor Ford (though he didn't want to issue a full apology):

"I was wrong in not acting more decisively and more forthrightly in dealing with Watergate, particularly when it reached the stage of judicial proceedings and grew from a political scandal into a national tragedy. No words can describe the depth of my regret and pain at the anguish my mistakes over Watergate have caused the nation and the presidency, a nation I so deeply love, and an institution I so greatly respect."

[RiverDog]

No, I do not recall anything close to the Pentagon being on red alert over concerns that Nixon might declare martial law. The whole Nixon situation never came close to this. And I even read Hunter S Thompson. In fact I see Trump as the embodiment of Hunter's worst case imaginings of Nixon.

There wasn't a concern about Nixon declaring martial law, but there was a lot of concern about his mental health and starting a nuclear war in the same manner that some in here fear that Trump might do:

Richard Nixon also drank heavily, especially during his stressful stint as US president during the Watergate crisis, which ultimately led to his resignation. During that time, Defense Secretary James Schlesinger took the extraordinary step of insisting that he be notified of any orders from the president that concerned nuclear weapons before they were passed down the command chain.

Presumably, Schlesinger – and by some accounts, Henry Kissinger, who was then serving as National Security Adviser – would have inserted themselves, unconstitutionally, to prevent war, especially nuclear war, if Nixon had ordered it. As civilians, neither Yeltsin nor Nixon, when incapacitated by alcohol, would have been permitted to drive a car; yet they had full governmental authority to start a nuclear war by themselves.

https://historynewsnetwork.org/blog/154276

I'm surprised you don't recall those days. They stick out pretty vividly in my mind.

[RiverDog]

I was 6 years old in 1973 when Nixon resigned, so I don't have any personal recollections about politics of that period or any talk of Martial Law. What was actually said during that time regarding Nixon and Martial Law? In hindsight, Watergate now seems like such a genial affair, although it almost brought down the country, and Nixon himself, although vilified, still had the class to say this after reluctantly accepting a full pardon from his successor Ford (though he didn't want to issue a full apology):

"I was wrong in not acting more decisively and more forthrightly in dealing with Watergate, particularly when it reached the stage of judicial proceedings and grew from a political scandal into a national tragedy. No words can describe the depth of my regret and pain at the anguish my mistakes over Watergate have caused the nation and the presidency, a nation I so deeply love, and an institution I so greatly respect."

Regarding Nixon, it was many years before he accepted responsibility for his role in the Watergate scandal or other activities that he took that were clearly illegal. He'd always say something like you quoted above, ie "mistakes were made", but he'd never own up to them by attributing those mistakes to his actions. From the transcripts of David Frost's interview with Nixon in 1977, 3 years after Nixon resigned:

Frost: So, what in a sense you’re saying is that there are certain situations and the Huston plan (which included illegal efforts to monitor anti-war and countercultural activists) or that part of it was one of them where the president can decide that it’s in the best interest of the nation or something and do something illegal.

Nixon: Well, when the president does it … that means that it is not illegal.[4]

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/lib ... ard-nixon/

To his credit, Nixon did, as you noted, apologize in general for the scandal for what he put the country through, but when it came down to the brass tacks specifics of his role or roles, he would never admit to wrong doing on his part. He'd defend his actions by saying something like he did in the above quote.

[c_hawkbob]

Nixon was the visible iceberg, Trump is what's lurking beneath.

[RiverDog]

Nixon was the visible iceberg, Trump is what's lurking beneath.

Compared to Trump, I agree. But compared to other POTUS's besides Trump, Nixon was a loner and let very few people get close to him, so in that sense, there was a very thick veil of secrecy that obscured the man in the Oval Office from public view, which is one of the things that fueled so much speculation that he might go off the rails and start a nuclear war during the final days of his presidency. Nixon also drank, at times heavily, something that Trump has never done.

The United States might have gone to war—or it might have done nothing. As Larry Eagleburger, who served as secretary of state under President George H. W. Bush, later noted, “One of the things that I recall now with a great deal more equanimity than I did at the time is what was never really understood: the degree to which the Watergate crisis, particularly in its final months, meant that if we had been put to the test somewhere in the foreign policy arena, we would not have been able to respond. We were a ship dead in the water.”

Through good luck and, perhaps, blind fortune, Moscow and Washington backed away from the specter of a Third World War. Kissinger, to his great credit, began a three-year attempt to try to negotiate peace in the Middle East. To his discredit, when word of the nuclear alert leaked, as it did almost instantly, he deceived the press, saying the president had saved the day, when Nixon had spent the night in a drunken stupor.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... war-119021

[RiverDog]

And then there is this:

Psychological problems while president, in wake of Watergate scandal 4

It is widely believed that Nixon ordered US military forces to DEFCON 3 during the Arab-Israeli war of 1973 to warn the Soviet Union that American vital interests were at stake. In fact, the National Security Advisor, Henry Kissinger, gave the order alone (which included launch of nuclear-armed B-52 bombers to airborne holding points). Nixon was indisposed, having "sufferred something like a nervous breakdown, telling Kissinger that he was being attacked [by his critics in the worsening Watergate scandal] 'because of their desire to kill the President. And they may succeed. I may physically die.'" 5a

Enormous pressure bore on Nixon during the protracted Watergate investigations. At one point he told visiting lawmakers: "I can go into my office and pick up the telephone and in 25 minutes 70 million people will be dead." This prompted California Senator Alan Cranston to call Defense Secretary James R. Schlesinger about "the need for keeping a berserk President from plunging us into a holocaust."

In Nixon's final days as President, Schlesinger instructed the military to double-check attack orders from the White House with him or with Secretary of State Henry Kissinger 7. It has been correctly stated that "This was an unambiguously illegal circumvention of the president's authority. But everyone should be grateful Schlesinger acted."

https://doctorzebra.com/prez/g37.htm

It's my recollections of Nixon and Watergate, during a time that at least on the international front was much more precarious than it is today, that has caused me to be relatively confident that there are responsible people within the government that have inserted themselves to serve as a circuit breaker between Trump and an order that he might give that would declare that martial law be imposed.

[NorthHawk]

It's my recollections of Nixon and Watergate, during a time that at least on the international front was much more precarious than it is today, that has caused me to be relatively confident that there are responsible people within the government that have inserted themselves to serve as a circuit breaker between Trump and an order that he might give that would declare that martial law be imposed.

I hope there are still some left after Trump has replaced many with blind loyalists. I've heard and read that his appointees go pretty deep into a lot of the gov't departments and it's going to take a while to
weed them out and replace them with people loyal to the constitution and country over the sitting President whoever that may be.

[Hawktawk]

The evidence of Trump being beholden to Russia is overwhelming . Not sure how some of the smartest people on this forum and elsewhere don’t see it .

Candidate Trump defended Putin . President Trump blessed the overthrow of Crimea that had occurred . He denied any involvement by Russia in his election.

Went as far as to throw Dan Coates and our intelligence community under the bus in Helsinki answering a reporters question about Putin’s involvement while standing next to the man . “ I know Dan Coats says he did it but he has denied it very strongly . I have no reason to believe he did it”. Coats says Putin has something on him . I think he’s got financial leverage and hes also got at least 1 tape of Trump with prostitutes in 2013 at the Moscow ritz Carlton . I’ve read articles suggesting he’s also on tape in St Petersburg . Dude is on Putin’s leash. He says nothing as Russia menaces unlike any time since the Cold War . His recent break with everyone on the planet regarding this hack just continues to confirm it. Stevie wonder can see it .

[RiverDog]

The evidence of Trump being beholden to Russia is overwhelming . Not sure how some of the smartest people on this forum and elsewhere don’t see it .

Candidate Trump defended Putin . President Trump blessed the overthrow of Crimea that had occurred . He denied any involvement by Russia in his election.

Went as far as to throw Dan Coates and our intelligence community under the bus in Helsinki answering a reporters question about Putin’s involvement while standing next to the man . “ I know Dan Coats says he did it but he has denied it very strongly . I have no reason to believe he did it”. Coats says Putin has something on him . I think he’s got financial leverage and hes also got at least 1 tape of Trump with prostitutes in 2013 at the Moscow ritz Carlton . I’ve read articles suggesting he’s also on tape in St Petersburg . Dude is on Putin’s leash. He says nothing as Russia menaces unlike any time since the Cold War . His recent break with everyone on the planet regarding this hack just continues to confirm it. Stevie wonder can see it .

I don't think your suggestion of Putin black mailing Trump over prostitutes is very likely, at least not at this point. Everyone knows that he's patronized prostitutes before and it doesn't make any difference to his base or even casual observers. Even his wife and family members didn't give a rip even when they found out that the old man had been banging pornstars. There wouldn't be any shock and awe if it were revealed that Trump was on tape with prostitutes unless they were underage, part of a human trafficking ring, or something other than just plain conventional sex. It would be like trying to blackmail Hugh Hefner.

I don't think a scandal like that is big enough to enable the Russians to sink their hooks into Trump as deep as they obviously have done.

[Hawktawk]

I think trump on film doing what’s alleged which is aquatic in nature , perverse, would at a minimum net him a divorce and utter humiliation. I believe it exists regardless of its value blackmail wise . I rely on the sworn testimony of long time bodyguard Keith Schiller who said trump was offered women by Russian officials . He said he told them “ we don’t do that “ he says he stood outside trumps door but not later at night . Then look at Trumps statement that he had not spent the night in Moscow when his flight manifest proved he did . Last I look at comeys testimony that Trump was obsessed with the allegation , repeatedly bringing it up in person and in phone calls . In a court of law it’s not enough . In the court of common sense and knowing the depravity of the man it’s most likely true .

[RiverDog]

I think trump on film doing what’s alleged which is aquatic in nature , perverse, would at a minimum net him a divorce and utter humiliation. I believe it exists regardless of its value blackmail wise . I rely on the sworn testimony of long time bodyguard Keith Schiller who said trump was offered women by Russian officials . He said he told them “ we don’t do that “ he says he stood outside trumps door but not later at night . Then look at Trumps statement that he had not spent the night in Moscow when his flight manifest proved he did . Last I look at comeys testimony that Trump was obsessed with the allegation , repeatedly bringing it up in person and in phone calls . In a court of law it’s not enough . In the court of common sense and knowing the depravity of the man it’s most likely true .

If a woman like Melania Trump, with her looks and money, was going to leave her husband after it became a commonly accepted fact that he slept with then paid 6 figure hush money to multiple women of very suspect moral character, she would have dumped him long ago. And if Trump can get millions of people to believe that the election was rigged without presenting one shred of evidence, is there any question in our minds that all he would have to do is simply tweet "Fake News" and his adoring fans would believe his denials?

Even if the story is true, it's not enough to cause Trump to behave like a puppet on a string like he's been doing over the past 4+ years. There has to be some other connection.

[I-5]

Even if the story is true, it's not enough to cause Trump to behave like a puppet on a string like he's been doing over the past 4+ years. There has to be some other connection.

I agree with both of you. It's probably true as HT says. But it's also probably not enough to make him act like a puppet on a string. I think it comes down to purely financial leverage, either with Putin as creditor and enforcer of said loan, or a future deal (a la Trump Tower Moscow). It's always always about the money, esp. with Trump. That's the only language he understands.

[RiverDog]

It's always always about the money, esp. with Trump. That's the only language he understands.

Not always. There's another element in the motivational characteristics of Donald Trump, and that's anything that strokes his ego. Blow smoke up his arse and he'll put you in his cabinet regardless of qualifications.

But I can't think of something that the Russians could do that would do the trick, so we're left with money.

[I-5]

Yes, I was going to say ego as well...like the photo op with Kim Jong un. But with Putin, money makes more sense as you say. I wouldn't rule out some type of Kompromat either, though.

[RiverDog]

Yes, I was going to say ego as well...like the photo op with Kim Jong un. But with Putin, money makes more sense as you say. I wouldn't rule out some type of Kompromat either, though.

Had this occurred 4-5 years ago in 2016, I might have agreed that Putin had something embarrassing on Trump that represented at least one of the strings he uses to make Trump dance. But at this point, after all sorts of crapola regarding Trump, Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal, and the 6 figure payoffs, there's not much left uncovered that could provide the shock value needed to project influence. Plus this is a 74 year old man we're talking about. I'd rule it out.

[I-5]

Had this occurred 4-5 years ago in 2016, I might have agreed that Putin had something embarrassing on Trump that represented at least one of the strings he uses to make Trump dance. But at this point, after all sorts of crapola regarding Trump, Stormy Daniels, Karen McDougal, and the 6 figure payoffs, there's not much left uncovered that could provide the shock value needed to project influence. Plus this is a 74 year old man we're talking about. I'd rule it out.

Oh, I wouldn't rule anything out myself. Hearing about a pee pee tape is a lot different than seeing the POTUS in one. You can bet there would be a ton of shock value if it did exist and came to the surface. Not holding my breath, though. And who says it has to be one thing? It can be many things.

[RiverDog]

Oh, I wouldn't rule anything out myself. Hearing about a pee pee tape is a lot different than seeing the POTUS in one. You can bet there would be a ton of shock value if it did exist and came to the surface. Not holding my breath, though. And who says it has to be one thing? It can be many things.

Boy, that would be funny if the pee pee thing were true. I can see the click bait ads now: A poll that poses the question: Which Presidential act is more perverted, Trump watching women pee or Clinton using his cigar as a French tickler then tasting it. Cast your vote to see the results.

[I-5]

Boy, that would be funny if the pee pee thing were true. I can see the click bait ads now: A poll that poses the question: Which Presidential act is more perverted, Trump watching women pee or Clinton using his cigar as a French tickler then tasting it. Cast your vote to see the results.

Both are embarassing, but the chance of someone taping Clinton in the act at the White House is close to nil. However, if Trump did have a romp at the Russians' invitation while in Moscow, you can bet there is a video of that, as they are famously known for bugging rooms for exactly that purpose. As HT pointed out, Trump's claim about not staying overnight is not consistent with the flight manifest he referenced.

[Hawktawk]

A few more of the reading between the lines tidbits I picked up when this story broke. When confronted with the "salacious" details of this encounter Trump denied it saying "I'm a germaphobe".Stormy daniels said he's not.

While standing next to Putin at their first summit Putin was asked about the allegation. He looked at Trump with steely eyes and said "no we dont have kompromat on Trump but our ladies of the night are the finest in the world" and gave a wry smile that told me all I needed to know. I may point out Putin has never admitted anything.

Shortly after his testimony regarding the Kremlin offering multiple women and refusing to provide a complete alibi( would have been simple to say he was at the door all night)Schiller quit Trump after decades as his personal bodyguard and having received secret service style treatment and access.
I think private citizen Trump in late 2013( not really that long ago) was so depraved and stupid he never dreamed of the fact Putin would be surveilling him everywhere he went, especially the presidential suite at the Ritz Carlton.The Steele report describes trump as being obsessed that the bed involved had been slept in by the Obamas. Does that sound like anyone you have observed? I think Comeys interview of pres elect Trump may have been the first time Trump was aware of its existence. Maybe not. I think he ran under pressure from Moscow.i know he had at least 4 meetings with Putin of which no notes exist and even the interpreters notes were taken.

Michael Cohen who pled guilty to numerous charges involving covering for Trump as his personal attorney described cleaning up a similar incident in Las vegas involving lewd acts and also an underage girl. I've read reports of other tapes in the eastern bloc. As has been said, there's a big difference between an accusation and a tape with really bad things happening on it. One would think than any narcissist image conscious person like Trump would do almost anything to keep that from surfacing.

[Hawktawk]

Boy, that would be funny if the pee pee thing were true. I can see the click bait ads now: A poll that poses the question: Which Presidential act is more perverted, Trump watching women pee or Clinton using his cigar as a French tickler then tasting it. Cast your vote to see the results.

Yikes Im trying to be kind of serious here RD I operate under the assumption it does. A guy who will grab a woman's privates without permission isn't going to turn down multiple russian hookers, not a chance.What does it mean for national security. It about a moot point now. Trumps helped putin all he can. Its more hindsight trying to figure out why he's been like this for 4 years..

[NorthHawk]

I wouldn't put it past him, but I'm not sure it has as much impact on him as you are implying.
It could torpedo his election chances and that would hurt Putin as well, so I think that worry is pretty small.
For him to move in the direction of treason as he has, I think it's as simple as follow the money.
He's beholding to them financially and he IS his business. They can't be separated and that would be a big blow
to his ego and self worth. After all, he would be seen to the world as loser and couldn't cover that up by lies.

[RiverDog]

Boy, that would be funny if the pee pee thing were true. I can see the click bait ads now: A poll that poses the question: Which Presidential act is more perverted, Trump watching women pee or Clinton using his cigar as a French tickler then tasting it. Cast your vote to see the results.

Yikes Im trying to be kind of serious here RD I operate under the assumption it does. A guy who will grab a woman's privates without permission isn't going to turn down multiple russian hookers, not a chance.What does it mean for national security. It about a moot point now. Trumps helped putin all he can. Its more hindsight trying to figure out why he's been like this for 4 years..

Well, although I wouldn't characterized it as "grabbed", I've touched a woman's privates without their permission on a number of occasions. At times, I received a positive response, other times got my hand slapped. I mean, you don't normally ask a woman "do you mind if I touch your privates?" Does that prove that I'd never turn down multiple hookers?

But you're right about it being a moot point. With each passing day, Donald Trump becomes less and less relevant. These questions as to "who's pulling Trump's strings and why" will be left for historians to figure out.

[Hawktawk]

Well, although I wouldn't characterized it as "grabbed", I've touched a woman's privates without their permission on a number of occasions. At times, I received a positive response, other times got my hand slapped. I mean, you don't normally ask a woman "do you mind if I touch your privates?" Does that prove that I'd never turn down multiple hookers?

But you're right about it being a moot point. With each passing day, Donald Trump becomes less and less relevant. These questions as to "who's pulling Trump's strings and why" will be left for historians to figure out.

Well Trump described it as "grab em by the P#$$y, grab em by whatever". I'm assuming and hoping your number of occasions involved relationships or at least dates where it was a mutual thing. Everybody not a eunuch has those stories.

Trump's victims report simply being assaulted by the man in all kinds of situations, in bars, in limousines, on airplanes. Genitals and breasts grabbed, pushed up against the wall, tongue kissed by a guy they just met..Bill Barr was using the DOJ to shield Trump from lawsuits from 2 of the women which will be moot now. He's admitted walking in on nude contestants on purpose with some as young as 15 verifying his stories.Nothing about any of that is normal or excusable.

Both Stormy daniels and Karen McDougal say Trump tried to pay them as if they were prostitutes. Melania has referred to Daniels as a "porn hooker" which drew a lot of anger in the porn community .

This is a situation Id be betting my bottom dollar is a fact. Putin has a film of trump, at least 1. He's likely got many financial strings as well based on eric trump's own admissions in 2012 and many other factors but either way this is a completely compromised president still in power, denying a massive Russian hack, vetoing the defense spending bill and ignoring Russian aggression like he has for 4 years. Ill rest a bit easier but only when the man is gone and anew administration is in charge. As of today it is reported that Trumps intelligence department is denying Biden access to national security materials. The man is doing Russia's bidding until his last day.https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... an-jets-i/