Looks like Corporate America is taking a stand

[RiverDog]

I'm gonna have to admit Me A Culpa here, I just learned that this video was from a Dec. 21 special legislative session and may not even have been in DC (the story reads as though it were at the Oregon capitol). Here's to increased verification before getting out the pitchfork.

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2021/01 ... pitol.html

Apologies to Riv and the rest of the forum.

No blame. The media does this crap all the time like when they showed photos from Obama's time in office to attack Trump for the border issues. Both sides media goes in hard on each other when the blood is in the water and some don't care about accuracy.

But that guy is still pretty dumb to let some people standing around a locked door in. They must have pretty lax security there to allow that.

Which is why I've been saying that I want to see what the investigation reveals. I've jumped the gun before just like Cbob did. There's so much misinformation, fake news, deep fakes, and so on, that it's extremely difficult for people like us to sort out truth from fiction.

I heard a really sad story about the Olympic gold medalist that was involved in the insurrection. It doesn't excuse what he did and I still support making him pay for his misdeeds, but you can't help but feel badly for the plight that led him into such a tragedy.

[Aseahawkfan]

Which is why I've been saying that I want to see what the investigation reveals. I've jumped the gun before just like Cbob did. There's so much misinformation, fake news, deep fakes, and so on, that it's extremely difficult for people like us to sort out truth from fiction.

I heard a really sad story about the Olympic gold medalist that was involved in the insurrection. It doesn't excuse what he did and I still support making him pay for his misdeeds, but you can't help but feel badly for the plight that led him into such a tragedy.

I still remember way back in 2001 when the right win media was posting articles with pictures of Middle Eastern mobs cheering after America was hit. Turned out to be pictures from a different protest in a different year.

Both of these media sides do it. Spin, paint pictures, and push their viewpoint finding anything they can with the barest of evidence to inflame. It's why we're in the situation we're in right now even though some want to just blame Trump.

But not as many people would believe election fraud crap if the media wasn't letting him blast it out, some of them giving him a voice, and putting people on voicing it. Along with videos of people pulling out bags and the such. I don't think even that would have worked if the Democrats hadn't built up this whole Russian election fraud and stolen election 2016 they conveniently forget about now that Trump is making even bigger, broader accusations with the same level of proof.

These people gotta stop vilifying each other when they lose or something goes against them. With the media and social media, a lot of people start to hate each other when these stories are blasted out with Nancy Pelosi is trying to do this to you or Mitch McConnell is doing this to you. Or President Obama is doing this or President Trump is doing this. Real issues that need to fixed need to be addressed, but not in this Marvel Comics or Move Supervillain manner. It's just getting stupid.

[Hawktawk]

Koch's helped with funding. But from what I was told the Koch's were mostly focused on removing all impediments to their capitalist enterprises and lowering taxes, not much the Constitutionalist movement aspect. Seems even the last prominent Koch brother has softened his stance in his old, old age.

I thing rigid ideologies stepping back from the ledge is a good thing on both sides of the spectrum.Especially uber wealthy kingmakers who decide to place some conditions on what type of politician they will support.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="Aseahawkfan"]
But not as many people would believe election fraud crap if the media wasn't letting him blast it out, some of them giving him a voice, and putting people on voicing it. Along with videos of people pulling out bags and the such. I don't think even that would have worked if the Democrats hadn't built up this whole Russian election fraud and stolen election 2016 they conveniently forget about now that Trump is making even bigger, broader accusations with the same level of proof.


I don't know why you keep pushing this angle that the Russian investigation was a hoax. Ill say it till i'm blue in the face. The initial dossier by respected british intelligence agent Christopher Steele was commissioned by a never trump group of REPUBLICANS.It was later funded by the DNC but NOTHING in it was ever used during the campaign.It eventually wound up in the hands of the FBI who launched crossfire hurricane as they felt and I do to this day that Trump is a russian asset.

Almost nothing in the dossier has been proven false to this day including allegations Trump was depraved and stupid enough to have been surreptitiously videotaped with prostitutes in the Moscow Ritz carlton in 2013.Might help explain his ass kissing of Putin constantly. Business with russia? yep as revealed by a Trump tower moscow deal that was only tabled election night.That lie by Cohen to the congress concerning the timeline of that tower deal was part of his jail sentence.

The Mueller report detailed hundreds of clandestine contacts between Trump operatives and Russian intelligence agents, oligarchs etc.Battleground district by district by swing state polls were shared by Manafort and Gates with a russian intelligence agent in a cigar bar owned by jared Kushner with all 4 men in the meeting leaving by separate doors.WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT ? In testimony to the congress Mueller called Trump's actions "unamerican" his written answers to the questions regarding their investigation" untruthful, generally speaking" The 1000 page senate report written by a republican controlled committee detailed the same things , referred to eastern bloc operative Manafort who was the Campaign manager of record when Trump won the nomination as " a grave national security risk. " 7 convictions most of whom have already been pardoned by the perp they fell on their sword for.Whether it in fact flipped the election is not knowable but when an estimated 200 million americans viewed deep fakes and social media posts designed to suppress the black vote, pumping bernie sanders and Jill Stein and DJT and hammering Hillary in an election far closer than the last one who knows.

What's not remotely debatable is that Russia interfered withy our election with the stated purpose of electing their patsy and that the Trump campaign was well aware of their help and welcomed it and rewarded it from day one of this administration.
I hear where you're coming from on the deep fakes and conspiracy theories and constantly playing gotcha between the parties but this conspiracy between Vlad Putin and Trump wasn't a theory. It was a fact.

[RiverDog]

I still remember way back in 2001 when the right win media was posting articles with pictures of Middle Eastern mobs cheering after America was hit. Turned out to be pictures from a different protest in a different year.

Both of these media sides do it. Spin, paint pictures, and push their viewpoint finding anything they can with the barest of evidence to inflame. It's why we're in the situation we're in right now even though some want to just blame Trump.

Yup. A good example is the photos of cages where detainees were being kept at the border that we all saw spread over the news networks. The liberals and media raised a stink about Trump putting detainees in cages when they were built during the Obama administration and the photo was taken in 2014 2.5 years before Trump took office.

But not as many people would believe election fraud crap if the media wasn't letting him blast it out, some of them giving him a voice, and putting people on voicing it. Along with videos of people pulling out bags and the such. I don't think even that would have worked if the Democrats hadn't built up this whole Russian election fraud and stolen election 2016 they conveniently forget about now that Trump is making even bigger, broader accusations with the same level of proof.

The problem is that the media pretty much has to allow Trump's remarks to go out unedited. They've done a fair job of pointing out that the information he's been saying has been debunked but that still doesn't stop people from believing him. After all, he is the president.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't know why you keep pushing this angle that the Russian investigation was a hoax. Ill say it till i'm blue in the face. The initial dossier by respected british intelligence agent Christopher Steele was commissioned by a never trump group of REPUBLICANS.It was later funded by the DNC but NOTHING in it was ever used during the campaign.It eventually wound up in the hands of the FBI who launched crossfire hurricane as they felt and I do to this day that Trump is a russian asset.

Almost nothing in the dossier has been proven false to this day including allegations Trump was depraved and stupid enough to have been surreptitiously videotaped with prostitutes in the Moscow Ritz carlton in 2013.Might help explain his ass kissing of Putin constantly. Business with russia? yep as revealed by a Trump tower moscow deal that was only tabled election night.That lie by Cohen to the congress concerning the timeline of that tower deal was part of his jail sentence.

The Mueller report detailed hundreds of clandestine contacts between Trump operatives and Russian intelligence agents, oligarchs etc.Battleground district by district by swing state polls were shared by Manafort and Gates with a russian intelligence agent in a cigar bar owned by jared Kushner with all 4 men in the meeting leaving by separate doors.WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT ? In testimony to the congress Mueller called Trump's actions "unamerican" his written answers to the questions regarding their investigation" untruthful, generally speaking" The 1000 page senate report written by a republican controlled committee detailed the same things , referred to eastern bloc operative Manafort who was the Campaign manager of record when Trump won the nomination as " a grave national security risk. " 7 convictions most of whom have already been pardoned by the perp they fell on their sword for.Whether it in fact flipped the election is not knowable but when an estimated 200 million americans viewed deep fakes and social media posts designed to suppress the black vote, pumping bernie sanders and Jill Stein and DJT and hammering Hillary in an election far closer than the last one who knows.

What's not remotely debatable is that Russia interfered withy our election with the stated purpose of electing their patsy and that the Trump campaign was well aware of their help and welcomed it and rewarded it from day one of this administration.
I hear where you're coming from on the deep fakes and conspiracy theories and constantly playing gotcha between the parties but this conspiracy between Vlad Putin and Trump wasn't a theory. It was a fact.

Well, if what you say is true, then Biden is a Chinese puppet because there is a whole lot of evidence Hunter Biden did the same type of crap with Ukrainian and Chinese oligarchs and the like. You want to be blind to the reality of being an American politician, have at it. Foreign governments are interfering with and attacking our elections all the time. You even seem to have a short memory of when Bill Clinton was accused of being a Chinese puppet.

The Trump is a Russian Puppet was pure political theater. Russia has been interfering in our elections for decades. So has China. So have many different foreign powers. But focusing the investigation on Russia and building it up into Trump as a Russian Puppet was pure BS. It is what lent credence to this crap of going back and forth.

Right now there are people just like you on the right who believe Biden is a puppet to foreign powers and the Chinese because there is evidence that Hunter Biden worked with Chinese companies and officials taking money from them. They are building the same claims against Biden as the Democrats built against Trump. There are people as sure as you are about Trump that Biden knew about all this and used his political power for his family's gain including his son Hunter Biden. If the Republicans get power again, they may well pursue this investigation against Biden. Then what?

If this doesn't stop, then why should any American have faith in our elections, intelligence agencies, military, or anyone at all if it is that easy to install an American president into office and control him? Why? These parties can't keep on with this election fraud, foreign election interference, and the like with no evidence of vote tampering or quid pro quo or real policy changes that have led to a material improvement for a foreign power without evidence. It can't continue.

I've watched these people going back and forth since Clinton. The Clinton Impeachment was BS. The Bush Jr. is a lying war criminal was BS. The Obama wasn't born here and is a Muslim was BS. The Trump is a Russian Puppet is BS.

The C.I.A., Homeland Security, N.S.A., F.B.I., and the like are some of the best agencies in the world. They are not going to allow some foreign government to install a puppet as president. So stop believing that trash. Our intelligence agencies are by far the best in the world, bar none. The most technologically advanced with a world wide network of support. No one is going to install a puppet leader to undermine us in America.

If you want to walk around the world paranoid thinking our intelligence agencies are getting beat by Russia, China, and Donald Trump, then have at it. I have far more faith in them than you do.

Christopher Steele was paid to dig up dirt on Donald Trump. He confirmed none of it. Just hearsay in a document. You keep referring to it as though it has to be disproven, when it has yet to be proven. You don't believe in innocent until proven guilty with Trump. He's been guilty in your mind since he started running. As long a this is the standard for guilt for the opposing party, then there this is going to continue for every leader from here on out.

I want no part of this trash. I already know Russia, China, Many Middle East leaders, Ukraine, North Korea, and any other nation who can pull it off interfere in every election. But they don't have the power to install a president. Sorry, they don't. Tight elections don't mean you get to call election fraud every fricking time. It needs to stop. It's reached the point of ridiculousness.

Trump won fair and square in 2016. There was zero evidence that Russia altered any actual votes. Unless you want to point to that evidence, you need to stop spreading that hoax. If you don't stop lying, then why should the right?

[Aseahawkfan]

The problem is that the media pretty much has to allow Trump's remarks to go out unedited. They've done a fair job of pointing out that the information he's been saying has been debunked but that still doesn't stop people from believing him. After all, he is the president.

Part of the reason the believe him is there is no standard for truth any longer.

I don't know if you have spent any time reading on Hunter Biden, but there is ample evidence that he did exactly as Trump is purported to have done: made a lot of money off political connections with his father. Apparently his uncles, Joe Biden's brothers are involved as well.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-54553132

I'm not particularly worried about this stuff myself. I consider it part of doing politics in America. And most of it is legal as long as there is not quid pro quo as they call it. Foreign interference in elections and America has been here for decades. I remember when there was a big push by the Soviets to infiltrate American universities and spread leftist politics. It was considered part of a major propaganda operation to spread Marxism in America, especially with minority groups.

We've also had Muslim recruiters in America. The IRA used to receive funds for the Irish Independence movements in America. We've been involved in all sorts of international weirdness with our politicians.

People forget this report when Bill Clinton had help from China allegedly: https://www.congress.gov/congressional-report/105th-congress/house-report/829/1

I think a lot of people have short memories and are too caught up in emotion. I'm one of those unfortunate people to have a long memory. I recall all this back and forth crap that has been going on for ages. I remember vividly George Bush Jr. being accused of being a war criminal for starting the Iraq War along with claims he lied about Iraq's WMDs even though if you understood the Cheney Doctrine, it wasn't a lie at all. Iraq's WMD capability was well within the Cheney Doctrine 1%. Then there was this idea Bush Jr. went against the world, when he had Great Britain and numerous allies assisting in The Iraq War. But the left wing press relentlessly attacked him and tried to get him tried in the World Court for War Crimes.

The vilifying of an opposing president is a long and storied tradition in America. But it's reached the point where it's pulling the country apart and getting ridiculous.

Trump's a terrible guy for many reasons, but being a Russian Puppet isn't one of them. I hope the right doesn't spend the majority of their time building up Biden as a Chinese Puppet for four years as payback. It's just going to continue to undermine the presidency, elections, and all the organizations that work hard to protect America.

[Hawktawk]

We will just disagree. Not sure what you mean about our intelligence agencies. Ill take Bob Muellers word for it as well as the republican commissioners report stating there was a there there, 241 clandestine contacts with russia from a man who said"I have nothing with russia". As for Steele dossier the most salacious allegation is actually most likely true. I take that from longtime bodyguard keith Schiller testimony to the congress and also things like flight records disproving trump's statement he had left the country in the night in question. Lies are consciousness of guilt.Seeing him in action it sounds exactly like something he did.

Then there's his continual ass kissing of our greatest geopolitical foe including tossing our intelligence under the bus in Helsinki with a beady eyed smirking Putin staring right at him on the stage. Its continues right up to and including dismissing this creepy solarwinds hack as being by someone other than russia against his own intelligence agencies and even Mike Pompeo's statements. Its just beyond the pale but he creates so much chaos daily the storys off the front page in an hour.

No I dont trust donald trump about anything and I rest my case.He is the most remorselessly dishonest man I've ever seen. If he said it was daytime Id go look out the window to be sure. As John Kelley said "the most flawed human being I've ever met." But hey MAGA