Looks like Corporate America is taking a stand

[RiverDog]

I just took one of those internet polls after reading a story about riot participants experiencing unexpected consequences of their actions involving their participation in last week's riot at the Capitol:

"Do you personally believe it is fair or unfair for those who were pictured at the storming of the US Capitol to lose their jobs over this incident?"

Totally fair 91%

Somewhat fair 2%

Somewhat unfair 1%

Totally unfair 6%

Other / No opinion 0%

It's not a scientific polling and the responses are likely somewhat skewed, but nevertheless, the results are striking.

It's only skewed in that it only polls the people that took the time to read the story. Most of the people that would respond otherwise don't read.

I disagree. There is a certain type of person that accesses articles like the one I read and bothers to take the poll. For one, they have to get their news off the internet. I'm pretty sure that my 82 year old best friend, of whom would have likely responded unfair and who gets his news via a hard copy newspaper, didn't have an opportunity to take the poll. It's not a scientific sampling.

Nevertheless, the since the responses are so overwhelmingly in the totally fair category, I do think it is telling us something, that a large percentage of Americans are unsympathetic to those that lost their jobs over this.

[c_hawkbob]

And I disagree with that rebuttal. At least the part about typical respondents of that poll "have to get their news off the internet".

I watch my local newscast, Lester Holt (NBC Nightly news), another 1/2 hour local newscast and then an hour long "The News with Shepard Smith" every evening as my primary trusted sources, I also use the internet as a source (that usually needs confirmation) during the day at my desk or on my laptop before bedtime. I take and respond to these polls all the time but I would not call the internet my primary news source.

Perhaps add that caveat and we could agree. I would say as well though that people that get their news from hard copy only are very rare and getting rarer.

[NorthHawk]

Back to corporations taking a stand it's now being reported that DeutcheBank will no longer do business with Trump.
It's unclear what happens to existing loans that aren't up for renewal but it's clear his avenues to financing are slimming.

[RiverDog]

And I disagree with that rebuttal. At least the part about typical respondents of that poll "have to get their news off the internet".

I watch my local newscast, Lester Holt (NBC Nightly news), another 1/2 hour local newscast and then an hour long "The News with Shepard Smith" every evening as my primary trusted sources, I also use the internet as a source (that usually needs confirmation) during the day at my desk or on my laptop before bedtime. I take and respond to these polls all the time but I would not call the internet my primary news source.

Perhaps add that caveat and we could agree. I would say as well though that people that get their news from hard copy only are very rare and getting rarer.

I think we can agree that the poll was unscientific and does not utilize the techniques that pollsters use to increase the accuracy of their results.

In any event, I posted it as an interesting tidbit. It's unusual when you see responses in the 90%+ range.

[RiverDog]

Back to corporations taking a stand it's now being reported that DeutcheBank will no longer do business with Trump. It's unclear what happens to existing loans that aren't up for renewal but it's clear his avenues to financing are slimming.

I'm seeing more and more companies jump on board by withdrawing campaign donations to the pols that objected to the vote count. It will be interesting to see how long their new found consciousness lasts.

I also saw this little tidbit:

Fox News ratings fell below both CNN and MSNBC for the first time since 2000 in the wake of the attack on the US Capitol

https://www.msn.com/en-us/entertainment ... uxbndlbing

[NorthHawk]

And now this:

On Monday, Signature Bank said it had started closing Trump's personal accounts and called for the president to resign. The US bank also said it "will not do business in the future with any members of Congress who voted to disregard the Electoral College."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/12/investin ... index.html

[c_hawkbob]

I absolutely LOVE seeing the corporate world closing him off over all this. I have to wonder how resolute he can remain when all these loans start coming due ... unless the cult followers keep signing over their retirement checks he's fixin' to fall on hard times!

[RiverDog]

I absolutely LOVE seeing the corporate world closing him off over all this. I have to wonder how resolute he can remain when all these loans start coming due ... unless the cult followers keep signing over their retirement checks he's fixin' to fall on hard times!

It's especially refreshing for me, a dedicated conservative and supporter of capitalism, to see this kind of push back on something that's this obvious and egregious.

As far as what happens to Trump after the 20th, I still couldn't give two hoots in hell about him. My position remains unchanged: What ever is best for the country in the long run, whether that be a lifetime in jail or a lifetime on his golf course.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't view it as "corporate control of internet speech." Companies are acting as surrogates of government regulatory agencies when they write their TOS. They are also conscious of legal obligations, afraid of being sued if someone gets hurt as a direct result of Trump's tweets or Parler's empowering of radicals. In my view, this is not companies acting unilaterally according to their own independent beliefs. It is companies self regulating according to established governmental and societal rules.

It's not just a matter of this case. It's that major corporations are acting in a unilateral manner to cut off political speech.

I don't want to start cutting slack on this issue because we are afraid of the public reaction or a minority of individuals. What Google, Amazon, and Facebook did was legally and morally right, and I think the majority of the public understands that.

A minority of individuals? Last poll I read is 71% of Trump voters, about 50 million people still think Trump is doing a good job. I tell you right now if even 5 million make a dedicated and armed effort to revolt in a guerilla war, this is going to be one miserable nation.

I'm hoping this is a one off due to this crazy pandemic. But damn these people are getting pissed off and tired of the Democrats. This capitol attacks indicates to me we're one real revolutionary leader away from an explosion violence not seen since the Civil War.

[I-5]

A minority of individuals? Last poll I read is 71% of Trump voters, about 50 million people still think Trump is doing a good job. I tell you right now if even 5 million make a dedicated and armed effort to revolt in a guerilla war, this is going to be one miserable nation.

If we are to believe what Trump and his supporters say about those who took part in the violence, they don’t represent the party. Right? Should we take their words at face value, or are they full of it per usual?

[RiverDog]

If we are to believe what Trump and his supporters say about those who took part in the violence, they don’t represent the party. Right? Should we take their words at face value, or are they full of it per usual?

Reporters on the ground....MSM reporters...commented that the Capitol riot mob was much different than typical Trump rallies. IMO it was a combination: A coordinated effort from several hundred(?) right wing extremists that had every intention from the get go on storming the Capitol combined with normally passive MAGA types radicalized by Trump's rhetoric and the thrill of the moment.

[Aseahawkfan]

If we are to believe what Trump and his supporters say about those who took part in the violence, they don’t represent the party. Right? Should we take their words at face value, or are they full of it per usual?

I've seen these people before. I've talked to them. That was them. The fractuous, revolutionary Libertarian movement that has been waiting to revolt for decades that put a non-mainstream Republican Donald Trump into office. I first heard the term R.I.N.O. from a Libertarian. A word Trump uses all the time. They hear the word Constitution and get ready to rise up in arms. That was them. Trump is their outside the norm, drain the swamp champion.

Or at least a portion of them.

Glad the actual money and power players balked when the revolt came. If the Trumps, Cruzes, Hawleys, and such weren't cowardly, the capitol would be burning and members of Congress would have been likely killed.

It's amazing to see this mini-revolt Libertarians told me would happen at some point happen. I thought they were full of crap. Just talking. Too fat and electronically addicted to do anything, but they showed up in the Capitol. They looked far more dangerous than the BLM protesters. I know that group is armed to the teeth.

[RiverDog]

It's amazing to see this mini-revolt Libertarians told me would happen at some point happen. I thought they were full of crap. Just talking. Too fat and electronically addicted to do anything, but they showed up in the Capitol. They looked far more dangerous than the BLM protesters. I know that group is armed to the teeth.

We've had revolts like this for decades, albeit it isolated and on a much smaller scale. The Montana Freemen, Waco, Malheur, Clive Bundy, et al. Social media is responsible for uniting them, and I fully expect that the government will start increasing their oversight of companies like Facebook and Twitter. And you're right, these right wing nuts are far more dangerous than the left wing radicals that were prevalent this summer during the BLM protests. These are 2nd Amendment types, para military. They have better tactics, know their weapons, know how their opponents are likely to respond.

Back to the OP. The list of corporations distancing themselves or outright banning Trump and his followers is growing. YouTube has temporarily suspended Trump's new channel. Airbnb is banning anyone that was engaged in the riots last week. Citibank and JP Morgan are suspending all political donations to both R's and D's. Reddit has banned the community r/donaldtrump for repeated policy violations. There appears to be a snowball effect in progress.

[Hawktawk]

It's especially refreshing for me, a dedicated conservative and supporter of capitalism, to see this kind of push back on something that's this obvious and egregious.

As far as what happens to Trump after the 20th, I still couldn't give two hoots in hell about him. My position remains unchanged: What ever is best for the country in the long run, whether that be a lifetime in jail or a lifetime on his golf course.

What's best for America is for him to spend the rest of his life in prison for treason. It might inflame tensions in the short term but we have to hold our chief executive responsive for the most egregious breach of the constitution in history or its just gonna be groundhog day the next time QAanoon elects a wanna be fascist and we may no longer be a democracy. The president and every single person who participated in this needs to be made a harsh example of. With Garland as the incoming AG it will happen. Even the despicable walrus Bill Barr would have prosecuted this based on his comments. Back in the day the man would have faced the gallows or a firing squad for something like this.

[c_hawkbob]

What's best for America is for him to spend the rest of his life in prison for treason. It might inflame tensions in the short term but we have to hold our chief executive responsive for the most egregious breach of the constitution in history or its just gonna be groundhog day the next time QAanoon elects a wanna be fascist and we may no longer be a democracy. The president and every single person who participated in this needs to be made a harsh example of. With Garland as the incoming AG it will happen. Even the despicable walrus Bill Barr would have prosecuted this based on his comments. Back in the day the man would have faced the gallows or a firing squad for something like this.

+1

[I-5]

Reporters on the ground....MSM reporters...commented that the Capitol riot mob was much different than typical Trump rallies. IMO it was a combination: A coordinated effort from several hundred(?) right wing extremists that had every intention from the get go on storming the Capitol combined with normally passive MAGA types radicalized by Trump's rhetoric and the thrill of the moment.

This is undoubtedly true, that it was a mix. That also makes it dangerous. I'm sure some of the more passive types were recoiled by the violence...but I'm just as sure that some passive types were awoken to something new. I would say the same about people watching on TV. You just never know.

[Hawktawk]

I didn't link it but i read an article saying that many republican voters are switching their registrations to independent in swing states. At the polls this will devastate republicans in the short term and one need only look at georgia as an example and that was day before this. Had it been day after Ossoff and Warnock would have won by 20 points.

3/4 of the republican party still on board with Chump is a loser at the ballet box but as we've seen the ballot box does not matter to these fascists.

And RD did I see where you said this was probably a few hundred violent insurgents and a bunch of peaceful protesters storming the capital screaming hang mike pence? You need to get your eyes checked if you watched the same footage I did. THOUSANDS participated in the actual riot inside and outside the Capitol. at least 15K flew in and drove thousands of miles to steal an election and they as well as the FBI knew exactly what they wanted to do. Airlines had to ban alcohol these people were so triggered and disorderly. I just read airbnb has canceled all reservations for inauguration day and issued refunds as these armed fanatics used the service for lodging on the 6th.Never seen anything like it.

My own sister, UW masters degree and successful businesswoman is justifying the attack, saying they wanted to make a point and it's no worse than antifa rioting, maybe it was them in disguise . She is of the same mindset as tens of millions of people, utterly deluded and in a cult.Not sure how my brother feels but he's a die hard trump supporter and a gun fanatic with a safe bristling with military grade weapons so I have a pretty good idea.

I am mystified as to why you keep minimizing this. You can tell yourself its not a big deal all you want if it reassures you but we have crossed a rubicon and we aint ever going back to normal.

[c_hawkbob]

On Seth Meyers last night he played a video showing a newsperson asking someone that just walked out of the Capitol what was going on and he said "I don't know but where I was it was just bunch of people in the Oregon room sparking one up" he said the Police were "cool and most of them are with us" ... Tried to find it but I only had time for a quick search and wasn't able to, if I run across it later I'll link the video.

Many within and in positions of authority over the Capitol Police need to face some charges of their own.

[I-5]

On Seth Meyers last night he played a video showing a newsperson asking someone that just walked out of the Capitol what was going on and he said "I don't know but where I was it was just bunch of people in the Oregon room sparking one up" he said the Police were "cool and most of them are with us" ... Tried to find it but I only had time for a quick search and wasn't able to, if I run across it later I'll link the video.

Many within and in positions of authority over the Capitol Police need to face some charges of their own.

There is absolutely no question that some of our elected congressmen were deeply involved in the planning. Ali Alexander (Ali Akbar) was the main organizer, but he candidly named Paul Gosar, Andy Biggs, and Mo Brooks as being his co-conspirators. Some of them tried to deny it, but unfortunately, their tweets mentioning support for Alexander are captured by the internet.

[RiverDog]

On Seth Meyers last night he played a video showing a newsperson asking someone that just walked out of the Capitol what was going on and he said "I don't know but where I was it was just bunch of people in the Oregon room sparking one up" he said the Police were "cool and most of them are with us" ... Tried to find it but I only had time for a quick search and wasn't able to, if I run across it later I'll link the video.

Many within and in positions of authority over the Capitol Police need to face some charges of their own.

I'm hearing much the same thing, but it seems to be limited to rouge cops. I haven't seen anything that would indicate some type of conspiracy or something pre-planned that involved rouge cops. It will be interesting to see what the investigation reveals.

[c_hawkbob]

There is absolutely no question that some of our elected congressmen were deeply involved in the planning. Ali Alexander (Ali Akbar) was the main organizer, but he candidly named Paul Gosar, Andy Biggs, and Mo Brooks as being his co-conspirators. Some of them tried to deny it, but unfortunately, their tweets mentioning support for Alexander are captured by the internet.

Here's a video of Oregon Rep. Mike Nearman opening the door for the insurrectionists!

https://youtu.be/YT6d7rdHJPs

[RiverDog]

Here's a video of Oregon Rep. Mike Nearman opening the door for the insurrectionists!

https://youtu.be/YT6d7rdHJPs

Yes, I saw that. I'm not trying to be a smart Alec, rather asking an honest question: Is there any evidence that he was working in cooperation with the insurrectionists? Was he involved in any advance planning? Or did they just show up at the door?

[c_hawkbob]

You're gonna have to google that for yourself. I obviously can't answer that and I don't think anybody not involved in an investigation into or court hearing on the matter could.

[I-5]

I don't know about Nearman, but when it comes to the riots in DC, a lot of the planning was directly coordinated between members of congress and Ali Alexander. Some of the congressmen live tweeted from inside the Capitol as it was happening, even at one point saying about the police: "they are with us".

From the article below:

"Alexander, a right-wing activist that has repeated President Donald Trump’s baseless claims of widespread election fraud, said in a since-deleted video on Periscope that Reps. Andy Biggs of Arizona, Mo Brooks of Alabama, and Paul A. Gosar of Arizona helped organize the Jan. 6 event during Congress’ vote to certify the Electoral College votes in favor of President-elect Joe Biden."

https://www.al.com/news/2021/01/ali-alexander-says-3-gop-lawmakers-helped-stop-the-steal-protest-that-turned-into-capitol-riot.html?src=ilaw

[RiverDog]

You're gonna have to google that for yourself. I obviously can't answer that and I don't think anybody not involved in an investigation into or court hearing on the matter could.

I agree. In other words, we're going to have to wait for the investigation to be completed before we pass judgment on Rep. Nearman.

[RiverDog]

I don't know about Nearman, but when it comes to the riots in DC, a lot of the planning was directly coordinated between members of congress and Ali Alexander. Some of the congressmen live tweeted from inside the Capitol as it was happening, even at one point saying about the police: "they are with us".

From the article below:

"Alexander, a right-wing activist that has repeated President Donald Trump’s baseless claims of widespread election fraud, said in a since-deleted video on Periscope that Reps. Andy Biggs of Arizona, Mo Brooks of Alabama, and Paul A. Gosar of Arizona helped organize the Jan. 6 event during Congress’ vote to certify the Electoral College votes in favor of President-elect Joe Biden."

https://www.al.com/news/2021/01/ali-alexander-says-3-gop-lawmakers-helped-stop-the-steal-protest-that-turned-into-capitol-riot.html?src=ilaw

Yea, that doesn't sound good. If they are found to have enabled those guys, they need to spend some serious time behind bars, and not some Martha Stewart type of prison time.

[Hawktawk]

The pentagon waited 3 hours after the request and 6 hours total to
Get guardsmen in . They ordered them not to have weapons or riot gear and not to engage the protesters . If you follow the chronology of the last 2 months Trump fired his sec of defense and gutted the top brass in his staff. I worried he was gonna start an all out war but it’s looking like he wanted control for a coup. He made another statement condemning the violence today following his impeachment . It’s worthless of course . His goons know the deal. Much like the Covid deniers his sheep follow the first command

[c_hawkbob]

You're gonna have to google that for yourself. I obviously can't answer that and I don't think anybody not involved in an investigation into or court hearing on the matter could.

I agree. In other words, we're going to have to wait for the investigation to be completed before we pass judgment on Rep. Nearman.

No, "we" aren't. I personally don't care if he was working in cooperation with anybody, he opened the door for them, he's got to take responsibility for that act whether there is collusion added upon it or not.

[RiverDog]

You're gonna have to google that for yourself. I obviously can't answer that and I don't think anybody not involved in an investigation into or court hearing on the matter could.

I agree. In other words, we're going to have to wait for the investigation to be completed before we pass judgment on Rep. Nearman.

No, "we" aren't. I personally don't care if he was working in cooperation with anybody, he opened the door for them, he's got to take responsibility for that act whether there is collusion added upon it or not.

We don't know why he opened the door. Did he know it was an insurrection trying to gain access to the building? Could he see who was standing on the other side of the door when he opened it? That's not apparent by the video. It will only become apparent after an investigation, and if appropriate, a trial.

[Aseahawkfan]

Here's a video of Oregon Rep. Mike Nearman opening the door for the insurrectionists!

https://youtu.be/YT6d7rdHJPs

Wow. He's either dumb as dirt or working with them.

This guy might be so dumb that he thought he was leaving on a normal day. He looks like he just walked out like it was a regular day and people being at that door was no big deal. That was a weird video.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/13/politics ... index.html

This is a slow rolling story suggesting some lawmakers may have been aware of a plan to breach the capital and facilitated it. Unauthorised visits under covid restrictions. Rioters seemed to know there way around. I read an account by a member of the Capitol hill police who said they would not be surprised if lawmakers were actually involved. Pelosi's location was shared by a R congressperson on a cell phone while in lockdown.

Try to help me wrap my head around this. A sitting president incites a mob riot with weeks of social media lies and a bombastic incendiary speech. State GOP parties and national dark money PACs funded it. More than a few lawmakers likely took part in the planning along with cops, military, almost certainly some elements in the defense dept. The FBI report shows there was plenty of advance warning but nothing was done about it. Why? these aren't mistakes IMO. These were deliberate decisions to facilitate this.

This is way bigger than a psycho president trying to stay in power. This is about a party trying to say in power by whatever means necessary.

[Hawktawk]

In other news the Republicans refuse to use the newly installed metal detectors Gotta have that freedom, Gotta be a patriot
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... r-BB1cKyDn

They dont want america. They hate america for all the people. They want the wild wild west where they have to submit to no laws.

[RiverDog]

Here's a video of Oregon Rep. Mike Nearman opening the door for the insurrectionists!

https://youtu.be/YT6d7rdHJPs

Wow. He's either dumb as dirt or working with them.

This guy might be so dumb that he thought he was leaving on a normal day. He looks like he just walked out like it was a regular day and people being at that door was no big deal. That was a weird video.

Agreed. He didn't hold the door open for them or signal for them to come in. He came straight out of an office, homework in hand, didn't hesitate to check and see who was at the door, opened it, sidestepped a person, and kept on walking. Is it common for people to enter the building through that door? Do he and others commonly allow others they don't recognize to come in like that?

At this point, it's an unexplained oddity until we get more information.

[c_hawkbob]

I'm gonna have to admit Me A Culpa here, I just learned that this video was from a Dec. 21 special legislative session and may not even have been in DC (the story reads as though it were at the Oregon capitol). Here's to increased verification before getting out the pitchfork.

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2021/01 ... pitol.html

Apologies to Riv and the rest of the forum.

[RiverDog]

I'm gonna have to admit Me A Culpa here, I just learned that this video was from a Dec. 21 special legislative session and may not even have been in DC (the story reads as though it were at the Oregon capitol). Here's to increased verification before getting out the pitchfork.

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2021/01 ... pitol.html

Apologies to Riv and the rest of the forum.

Kudos for fessing up.

The timing of the release of that video appears to be very suspicious.

Nearman accused House Speaker Tina Kotek (of the Oregon legislature) of deliberately releasing the footage of the incident after the Jan. 6 attack on Capitol Hill in Washington for political purposes. He said his family has been the target of "criticism, attacks at my home and threats via email social media and phone" since the footage was released.

"The fact that she was in possession of a video for sixteen days, and only chose to reveal the video and implicate me on the day after an ugly mob descended on the Capitol in Washington, DC, tells me that her motivations are about politics and not about safety," Nearman said. "I hope for due process, and not the mob justice to which Speaker Kotek is subjecting me."

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... uxbndlbing

You're not the only one that made the mistake of believing that the video was associated with the riot in DC. It would seem to me that Ms. Kotek ought to be under investigation for her actions.

[NorthHawk]

There was an article on The Independent.co.UK which was about Ayonna Pressley (one of The Squad) who said her panic button had been removed prior to the riot.
Her spokeswoman said she had used it in drills but when the riot happened and she tried to use it it wasn't there. It might be totally innocent and I don't know much
about The Independent as a news source - it may be the UK's National Enquirer, but it true, the reasons for the removal have to be examined.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/k ... r-BB1cJzAH

At least the Kochs are cracking down even though this tea party movement was their idea

Its no mistake or accident. This was an inside job.

[NorthHawk]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/koch-network-pledges-to-weigh-heavy-lawmakers-actions-in-riots/ar-BB1cJzAH

At least the Kochs are cracking down even though this tea party movement was their idea

Its no mistake or accident. This was an inside job.

Kind of like Frankenstein and the Monster when you read the article. It's now running amok and they can't control it.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm gonna have to admit Me A Culpa here, I just learned that this video was from a Dec. 21 special legislative session and may not even have been in DC (the story reads as though it were at the Oregon capitol). Here's to increased verification before getting out the pitchfork.

https://www.oregonlive.com/news/2021/01 ... pitol.html

Apologies to Riv and the rest of the forum.

No blame. The media does this crap all the time like when they showed photos from Obama's time in office to attack Trump for the border issues. Both sides media goes in hard on each other when the blood is in the water and some don't care about accuracy.

But that guy is still pretty dumb to let some people standing around a locked door in. They must have pretty lax security there to allow that.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/other/koch-network-pledges-to-weigh-heavy-lawmakers-actions-in-riots/ar-BB1cJzAH

At least the Kochs are cracking down even though this tea party movement was their idea

Its no mistake or accident. This was an inside job.

Koch's helped with funding. But from what I was told the Koch's were mostly focused on removing all impediments to their capitalist enterprises and lowering taxes, not much the Constitutionalist movement aspect. Seems even the last prominent Koch brother has softened his stance in his old, old age.