Looks like Corporate America is taking a stand

[c_hawkbob]

This'll get their attention: https://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/corpora ... MZaqfFP80A

[RiverDog]

Excellent! And who says that Wall Street is nothing but a pack of money hungry leaches?

Toss these actions in with tech giants like Twitter, Facebook, Apple, and Amazon banning Trump, Parler, and other threats to public safety from their platforms.

I'm also hearing that there's several companies that have already fired employees of theirs that were identified in the riot. Plus some of these folks, particular the younger ones, that get convicted of a felony are going to be in for a rude awakening when they go look for work. A felony conviction automatically takes your name out of consideration for a whole lot of potential jobs, including my former place of employment.

[c_hawkbob]

Excellent! And who says that Wall Street is nothing but a pack of money hungry leaches?

Toss these actions in with tech giants like Twitter, Facebook, Apple, and Amazon banning Trump, Parler, and other threats to public safety from their platforms.

Exactly, this is the sort of thing that'll do more to rehabilitate the Trumplican party than all the speeches and editorials in the world.

[RiverDog]

Excellent! And who says that Wall Street is nothing but a pack of money hungry leaches?

Toss these actions in with tech giants like Twitter, Facebook, Apple, and Amazon banning Trump, Parler, and other threats to public safety from their platforms.

Exactly, this is the sort of thing that'll do more to rehabilitate the Trumplican party than all the speeches and editorials in the world.

I couldn't agree more. Money talks, bullchit walks.

I suppose it's wishful thinking to hope that the NRA pulls their funding and endorsements from those Congressmen/Senators that objected to the count.

[c_hawkbob]

LOL! That would be shocker wouldn't it?

[Hawktawk]

The Koch brothers also stated the election is over and it’s time to move on , a couple of weeks ago . No bigger donors than that . I’m beginning to think this will split the party . 65% blame trump and I need a few bowls of what those who disagree are smoking . 30% still support him which is amazing but it’s nowhere near a winning # at the ballot box. I know I’ll get blowback but this isn’t even watergate . It’s far worse from the election lies to the phone calls and then this apostasy . This may be the inflection point for issue Trump supporters . This party won’t win another election if they keep trying to get these goons to support them .

[Aseahawkfan]

No money can be made in a destroyed nation.

A few of my friends still supporting this scumbag. They have no clue what a real Civil War would be like. It would be absolutely terrible. There is this arrogance amongst Trump supporters that they would win easily because they have the guns. They don't realize that plenty of Democrats own guns and the majority of generals, corporations, moderates, independents, and nearly every major organization is against Trump. They will not just roll over to the idiots supporting Trump. The level of death in a Civil War would be extreme.

There are millions of Trump supporters that just like him won't admit they were wrong to support this scumbag.

I even pointed out that Mike Pence had been loyal to Trump to the bitter end and Trump turned on him calling him a coward for doing his legal duty. They still can't see how terrible Trump is because they don't want to admit they were wrong.

I've watched Mike Pence lambasted, attacked, mistreated, and the entire time he has shown nothing but loyalty to Trump not badmouthing him in public, backing his idiotic plays, and trying to maintain some semblance of a presidential appearance in the White House. Trump just straight up took a dump on Pence for not subverting the election and doing what he told him to do.

How these people can support this scumbag in light of all this I do not know. But they do.

[I-5]

Trump has succeeded in making Pence likeable. I didn’t know that was possible.

Re: corporations, I’m very glad to see it. I think they are not just taking a stand but know that it’s also good business, so win/win. Polls show that a majority of Americans want Trump impeached or removed from office before Jan 20. I don’t think NRA can afford to join them, though; they know who their constituents are.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump has succeeded in making Pence likeable. I didn’t know that was possible.

Re: corporations, I’m very glad to see it. I think they are not just taking a stand but know that it’s also good business, so win/win. Polls show that a majority of Americans want Trump impeached or removed from office before Jan 20. I don’t think NRA can afford to join them, though; they know who their constituents are.

One of my friends thinks you and c-bob want to kill any Americans that don't agree with you. That the Democratic Party is going to start killing people and taking their liberties in his lifetime like Biden is Mao or Stalin.

Is that your secret plan, I5? Act like a nice guy, but you're really going to start some re-education camps with Democrat socialist soldiers ensuring all the former Trump supporters comply?

[I-5]

One of my friends thinks you and c-bob want to kill any Americans that don't agree with you. That the Democratic Party is going to start killing people and taking their liberties in his lifetime like Biden is Mao or Stalin.

Is that your secret plan, I5? Act like a nice guy, but you're really going to start some re-education camps with Democrat socialist soldiers ensuring all the former Trump supporters comply?

Number 1, how do your friend know c-bob and me? Even you don't know who we are, and vice versa.
Number 2, what do you think the answer to your own question is?

Come on, man. Chill.

[Aseahawkfan]

Number 1, how do your friend know c-bob and me? Even you don't know who we are, and vice versa.
Number 2, what do you think the answer to your own question is?

Come on, man. Chill.

It was sarcasm. I know you guys are not trying to kill anyone. I know it doesn't carry over well on the Internet. I think it's nuts that anyone would think Democrats are trying to kill them.

I know you have no interest in hurting anyone.

[I-5]

Whew...yeah I thought you were being sarcastic. But like you said, there isn't a font for it, and in these crazy times, you never know...

[RiverDog]

I honestly think that a lot of this craziness is being fueled by the pandemic. Just like the BLM riots of this summer radicalized a lot of people that would not normally behave in that manner, so, too, has this winter's riots been likewise fueled.

Have you noticed how it feels going into a grocery store and shop with another hundred or so shoppers with masks on? For me, it feels very strange, like I'm in there with a bunch of Stepford wives . I look at someone in the eye that darts in front of me and I can't tell if they are being rude or simply wasn't aware that I was there. You can't see people smile or frown. I'm afraid to say anything to anyone for fear of being misinterpreted. The masks have a tendency to de-humanize us.

People are not thinking logically now. How else would so people in the medical community, people that have given and seen given thousands of vaccinations and who personally see people dying from COVID and are worked to the bone because of it not want the vaccine? It's non sensical.

[c_hawkbob]

One of my friends thinks you and c-bob want to kill any Americans that don't agree with you. That the Democratic Party is going to start killing people and taking their liberties in his lifetime like Biden is Mao or Stalin

Wow, there's some interesting psychology in this statement!

Does this friend really exist or is he merely your means of telling us how you really feel without having to own it?

If he does exist it's likely that he only knows of us what you have told him so that brings back around to how you really feel anyway. Or does he read this forum? If so, why doesn't he speak for himself? If not why are we even a topic of discussion among you and your friends?

Most interesting of all is your projection about the violence of the left when it is plainly clear in the history of this country, at least for our lifetimes, that the right is far more violent and deadly. A fact even expressed by our own FBI and Department of Homeland Security currently.

[Hawktawk]

Its not democrats packing heat, or rational republicans turned independents although we own em and i just stocked up on ammo.

Its ridiculous what Asea wrote here. If he's got a friend that feels democrats are the violent killers its not surprising cause he probably thinks democrats run a poedophile ring and Trumps a messiah who is fighting it behind the scenes,Bin Laden is alive, that the election was stolen etc, the virus is a hoax,masks are unpatriotic, red made in china MAGA hats look cool, antifa stormed the capital with stolen maga gear.

I could care less what a dolt like that thinks.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.thetelegraph.com/news/artic ... 860720.php

Broadcasters are clamping down on the right wing shock jocks. A few weeks ago I was driving along listening to AM radio, surfing around. At any give time I hear 2 or 3 right wing talk show hosts going on about a stolen election, about Mike Pence's responsibility to overturn it. Then we see thugs ransacking the capitol and chanting "hang mike Pence". Why would they say this? This is a good move although these media outlets can get ready for armed militias trying to breach their facilities too.

[RiverDog]

https://www.thetelegraph.com/news/article/Talk-radio-owner-orders-conservative-hosts-to-15860720.php

Broadcasters are clamping down on the right wing shock jocks. A few weeks ago I was driving along listening to AM radio, surfing around. At any give time I hear 2 or 3 right wing talk show hosts going on about a stolen election, about Mike Pence's responsibility to overturn it. Then we see thugs ransacking the capitol and chanting "hang mike Pence". Why would they say this? This is a good move although these media outlets can get ready for armed militias trying to breach their facilities too.

Hopefully we see more of this push back. This morning, I saw where two Seattle PD employees have been put on leave and will be fired if they are found to have participated in the rioting. Knowing my former employer after having worked for them for nearly 30 years, we would fire on the spot any employee of ours that was positivity identified as participating in the riot no matter what position they held with us.

One of the things I'm concerned about is the ability to find fair and impartial juries. Our political divide is so great that I wonder if there are enough people that can separate fact from fiction. With such a high bar for conviction in a criminal trial, what are the odds that one out of twelve people would vote to acquit even if there was undeniable evidence that a rioter committed a felony crime?

[RiverDog]

And now, the PGA is dumping Trump golf courses from hosting major events:

The PGA of America has cut its remaining tie with President Donald Trump, and it’s a major one.

That means the 2022 PGA Championship needs a new home, as Trump Bedminster in New Jersey was set to host in just over two years. But that agreement officially was terminated Sunday night.

“We find ourselves in a political situation not of our making,’' said Seth Waugh, the CEO of the PGA of America, in an interview with the Associated Press. “We’re fiduciaries for our members, for the game, for our mission and for our brand. And how do we best protect that? Our feeling was given the tragic events of Wednesday that we could no longer hold it at Bedminster. The damage could have been irreparable. The only real course of action was to leave.”

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2021/01/pg ... -host.html

[c_hawkbob]

And now, the PGA is dumping Trump golf courses from hosting major events:

The PGA of America has cut its remaining tie with President Donald Trump, and it’s a major one.

That means the 2022 PGA Championship needs a new home, as Trump Bedminster in New Jersey was set to host in just over two years. But that agreement officially was terminated Sunday night.

“We find ourselves in a political situation not of our making,’' said Seth Waugh, the CEO of the PGA of America, in an interview with the Associated Press. “We’re fiduciaries for our members, for the game, for our mission and for our brand. And how do we best protect that? Our feeling was given the tragic events of Wednesday that we could no longer hold it at Bedminster. The damage could have been irreparable. The only real course of action was to leave.”

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2021/01/pg ... -host.html

Now they're really hittin' him where it hurts!

[Hawktawk]

And now, the PGA is dumping Trump golf courses from hosting major events:

The PGA of America has cut its remaining tie with President Donald Trump, and it’s a major one.

That means the 2022 PGA Championship needs a new home, as Trump Bedminster in New Jersey was set to host in just over two years. But that agreement officially was terminated Sunday night.

“We find ourselves in a political situation not of our making,’' said Seth Waugh, the CEO of the PGA of America, in an interview with the Associated Press. “We’re fiduciaries for our members, for the game, for our mission and for our brand. And how do we best protect that? Our feeling was given the tragic events of Wednesday that we could no longer hold it at Bedminster. The damage could have been irreparable. The only real course of action was to leave.”

https://www.mlive.com/sports/2021/01/pg ... -host.html

Awesome. As a guy with 34 years in the maintenance side of the game I hated the unholy alliance of PGA tour guys playing golf with a fascist, a racist getting the economic boost of a major. Remember now MAGA before you start attacking PGA headquarters with zip ties and Guns remember that DJT hired northern triangle illegals to build both Bedminster and Trump national for 8 bucks an hr, 1 7th of the going wage in NY at the time. They didn't even purge these employees until a year into Trump's term. Now they are rapists and murderers and some"i assume are fine people"

Yeah i love this move by the PGA tour

[NorthHawk]

I wonder if the value of the properties he has mortgages on are now lesser valued just as his loans are due?
With his reported debts, it makes me wonder if he will still be considered a billionaire.

[Hawktawk]

I see twitter is down 7% on wall street since the ban and Facebook has taken a 34 billion cap hit. We will see how patriotic these enablers really are when it starts hitting the shareholders. Trump supporters want to hear his fascist bile.

[RiverDog]

I see twitter is down 7% on wall street since the ban and Facebook has taken a 34 billion cap hit. We will see how patriotic these enablers really are when it starts hitting the shareholders. Trump supporters want to hear his fascist bile.

Twitter and Facebook knew that their stock would take a hit. They pretty much had to ban Trump, Parler, et al to keep the FCC off their backs. I have no doubt that the federal government would start flexing their muscle, threaten them with anti trust suits, tax audits, etc, if they didn't take action.

What will be interesting will be after the economy starts to open back up and we start seeing the resumption of tourism, conventions, etc and how these boycotts affect Trump's real estate holdings, like his hotels. I doubt seriously that large companies are going to be booking conventions at Trump's hotel in Las Vegas and other domestic locations. Companies may not necessarily be anti Trump, but they are definitely anti controversy and anti bad publicity. The Trump brand is going to take a huge hit.

[Hawktawk]

Twitter and Facebook knew that their stock would take a hit. They pretty much had to ban Trump, Parler, et al to keep the FCC off their backs. I have no doubt that the federal government would start flexing their muscle, threaten them with anti trust suits, tax audits, etc, if they didn't take action.

What will be interesting will be after the economy starts to open back up and we start seeing the resumption of tourism, conventions, etc and how these boycotts affect Trump's real estate holdings, like his hotels. I doubt seriously that large companies are going to be booking conventions at Trump's hotel in Las Vegas. They may not necessarily be anti Trump, but they are definitely anti controversy and anti bad publicity.

The Trump boutique destination golf properties have been alligators forever. They are vehicles to launder money IMO. There's no way to keep feeding them losing millions and eric trump alluded to russian investors in a 2012 interview with a golf publication. It's one reason Trump always played his places and charged secret service the full $650 per night per room, full price meals etc. His golf cart rentals for his secret service to follow him around was well in excess of a million dollars. I hope he loses everything he ever had and dies penniless in prison for what he did to america.

[Aseahawkfan]

Wow, there's some interesting psychology in this statement!

Does this friend really exist or is he merely your means of telling us how you really feel without having to own it?

If he does exist it's likely that he only knows of us what you have told him so that brings back around to how you really feel anyway. Or does he read this forum? If so, why doesn't he speak for himself? If not why are we even a topic of discussion among you and your friends?

Most interesting of all is your projection about the violence of the left when it is plainly clear in the history of this country, at least for our lifetimes, that the right is far more violent and deadly. A fact even expressed by our own FBI and Department of Homeland Security currently.

No. Total joke as far as you and I5 goes.

My buddy texted me the Democrats were going to start killing them and taking all their liberties after Big Tech banned Trump, Parler, and the like. I kind of chuckled thinking to this forum and the Democrats and liberals I know. I can't see any of you guys joining some Mao like movement to kill him like he seems to think. I thought his view of Democrats is so nuts. Biden doesn't appear to me as some crazy Marxist Socialist. Once Trump was banned from social media, a lot of conservatives started losing it and talking about Democrat and Big Tech working hand in hand to suppress them.

You live in Kentucky. You're a friendly enough guy. You must know at least a few crazy conservative buddies who are losing their ever-loving minds over this Twitter ban and such.

This is crazy times, man. Crazy times.

[Aseahawkfan]

Its not democrats packing heat, or rational republicans turned independents although we own em and i just stocked up on ammo.

Its ridiculous what Asea wrote here. If he's got a friend that feels democrats are the violent killers its not surprising cause he probably thinks democrats run a poedophile ring and Trumps a messiah who is fighting it behind the scenes,Bin Laden is alive, that the election was stolen etc, the virus is a hoax,masks are unpatriotic, red made in china MAGA hats look cool, antifa stormed the capital with stolen maga gear.

I could care less what a dolt like that thinks.

Yeah. Pretty crazy. Some of these people are losing it after these social media bans and Big Tech shutting off their mouthpiece.

I'm trying to talk them down. So far I've been called a Democrat supporter who isn't standing up for anything.

You must had some of your conservative buddies calling you out. You used to have many.

Sorry. I'm not going to start hating people I know are good people. This buddy of mine takes good care of his family. Would give you the shirt off his back. Always welcomes his friends into his home with food or helps them when they need it.

There's just a lot of crap going on right now. We need to get through it to the other side of this crazy without destroying the nation, losing friends, and continuing to treat each other like garbage over political crap.

[c_hawkbob]

No. Total joke as far as you and I5 goes.

My buddy texted me the Democrats were going to start killing them and taking all their liberties after Big Tech banned Trump, Parler, and the like. I kind of chuckled thinking to this forum and the Democrats and liberals I know. I can't see any of you guys joining some Mao like movement to kill him like he seems to think. I thought his view of Democrats is so nuts. Biden doesn't appear to me as some crazy Marxist Socialist. Once Trump was banned from social media, a lot of conservatives started losing it and talking about Democrat and Big Tech working hand in hand to suppress them.

You live in Kentucky. You're a friendly enough guy. You must know at least a few crazy conservative buddies who are losing their ever-loving minds over this Twitter ban and such.

This is crazy times, man. Crazy times.

Much more than a few! It the prevailing sentiment at my gym and at least 50% at work.

[Aseahawkfan]

Twitter and Facebook knew that their stock would take a hit. They pretty much had to ban Trump, Parler, et al to keep the FCC off their backs. I have no doubt that the federal government would start flexing their muscle, threaten them with anti trust suits, tax audits, etc, if they didn't take action.

What will be interesting will be after the economy starts to open back up and we start seeing the resumption of tourism, conventions, etc and how these boycotts affect Trump's real estate holdings, like his hotels. I doubt seriously that large companies are going to be booking conventions at Trump's hotel in Las Vegas and other domestic locations. Companies may not necessarily be anti Trump, but they are definitely anti controversy and anti bad publicity. The Trump brand is going to take a huge hit.

I find it interesting that Germany and France are questioning the social media ban. Seems there is a feeling that a corporation should not have this much control over free speech given the nature of social media. I'm of a similar mind. Right now these companies are private. They have enormous control over shared speech on their platforms. Even China censors anything they don't want spread on social media. It is becoming more and more of a free speech issue with social media. It will have to be looked at carefully.

[I-5]

I find it interesting that Germany and France are questioning the social media ban. Seems there is a feeling that a corporation should not have this much control over free speech given the nature of social media. I'm of a similar mind. Right now these companies are private. They have enormous control over shared speech on their platforms. Even China censors anything they don't want spread on social media. It is becoming more and more of a free speech issue with social media. It will have to be looked at carefully.

I think it's an interesting problem...and a bit scary. One, technically it's not censorship since both are products, and two, there is no rule that everyone has to be on the same social media. But the reality is that Twitter and Facebook are dominant around the world (not everywhere though, since it's banned in the China, so technically, Wechat is possibly the largest social media company in the world but that's another story). I'm all for free expression, but where do you draw the line when a group (or a president in this case) starts trying to sell a BIG LIE (stolen election with zero evidence) to his fan base? To me, that's the most dangerous thing of all, because history shows that this type of cult hero worship combined with a BIG LIE was/is an effecive means to commit arocities like what happened in Nazi Germany and the Ukrainian Famine in the 1930's.

As historian Timothy Snyder said, to paraphrase, to believe in a big lie means everyone else has to be wrong, and only one person is right. If you believe in the big lie, then you have to take radical action.

[RiverDog]

I find it interesting that Germany and France are questioning the social media ban. Seems there is a feeling that a corporation should not have this much control over free speech given the nature of social media. I'm of a similar mind. Right now these companies are private. They have enormous control over shared speech on their platforms. Even China censors anything they don't want spread on social media. It is becoming more and more of a free speech issue with social media. It will have to be looked at carefully.

I think it's an interesting problem...and a bit scary. One, technically it's not censorship since both are products, and two, there is no rule that everyone has to be on the same social media. But the reality is that Twitter and Facebook are dominant around the world (not everywhere though, since it's banned in the China, so technically, Wechat is possibly the largest social media company in the world but that's another story). I'm all for free expression, but where do you draw the line when a group (or a president in this case) starts trying to sell a BIG LIE (stolen election with zero evidence) to his fan base? To me, that's the most dangerous thing of all, because history shows that this type of cult hero worship combined with a BIG LIE was/is an effecive means to commit arocities like what happened in Nazi Germany and the Ukrainian Famine in the 1930's.

As historian Timothy Snyder said, to paraphrase, to believe in a big lie means everyone else has to be wrong, and only one person is right. If you believe in the big lie, then you have to take radical action.

I'm not too concerned about what Germany and France think about our situation regarding social media.

Censorship is nothing new. CBS canceled the Smothers Brothers back in the 60's, essentially censored them for their political content, because they wouldn't comply with their demands to review their material before they went on air. In more recent years, Howard Stern has been heavily fined by the FCC for content it deemed indecent. The watchful eye of the government has been imbedded in our society forever.

In the cases of these recent bans, private companies are acting on terms of services they created so that they would not risk being in violation of FCC and other governmental regulations. Companies and other organizations set these types of governmental compliance rules all the time, whether it involve employee safety, public health, workplace conditions, building codes, and so forth. I see the banning of Trump's Twitter account and the Parler app being no different than a company initiating a voluntary recall of a defective product.

There's also a legal motivation for these companies. Twitter, Apple, and Google could be found criminally liable for damages if a court were to determine that they willingly facilitated personal assaults and property damage. They are acting to protect their profitability.

As far as social media's influence, I agree, it's a very scary thought. But I'm more scared at how incredibly stupid and naïve some of these people's minds are that they would allow themselves to get brainwashed by these lies and half truths they see on social media.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think it's an interesting problem...and a bit scary. One, technically it's not censorship since both are products, and two, there is no rule that everyone has to be on the same social media. But the reality is that Twitter and Facebook are dominant around the world (not everywhere though, since it's banned in the China, so technically, Wechat is possibly the largest social media company in the world but that's another story). I'm all for free expression, but where do you draw the line when a group (or a president in this case) starts trying to sell a BIG LIE (stolen election with zero evidence) to his fan base? To me, that's the most dangerous thing of all, because history shows that this type of cult hero worship combined with a BIG LIE was/is an effecive means to commit arocities like what happened in Nazi Germany and the Ukrainian Famine in the 1930's.

As historian Timothy Snyder said, to paraphrase, to believe in a big lie means everyone else has to be wrong, and only one person is right. If you believe in the big lie, then you have to take radical action.

The problem I have with this is where do the lies begin?

In 2016 the Democrats spread information backed up only by nebulous ideas by intelligence agencies of Russia backed election fraud. There was no exact vote count or anyone prosecuted specifically for vote counts, just this idea that Russia used social media in Trump's favor. So you had a lot of Democrats believing Trump stole the election in 2016.

In 2018 the same guy in Georgia was accused by Stacy Abrams of election fraud. Brad Raffesperger. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/11/30/18118264/georgia-election-lawsuit-voter-suppression-abrams-kemp-race

Now the Democrats pursued legal and PR means to combat the alleged election fraud and interference, but even then there was this constant refrain that if you lose a tight election it must have been rigged. This was also seen in 2000 when Bush Jr. won.

Now in 2020 Trump loses a tight election and you have voters believing in election fraud on the sparsest of evidence. Everyone knows some election fraud occurs every election, but usually an insufficient amount to sway an election one way or the other. Russia certainly did not hack the voting machines or sway the election enough to help Trump win, but you wouldn't be able to convince some Democrats that was true.

Now you spin Republican Trump supporters up with election fraud claims. Well it so happens they're more insane and violent than Democrats. They are going on a rampage due to specious election fraud claims magnified to a level that there is little evidence to support.

When does it stop? It is ok for Democrats to claim election fraud on the sparsest of evidence because they don't get violent about it? Or does this crap just have to stop. If an election is tight, just take the loss and move on. Stop with the spinning up of this crap about election fraud which is making more and more people feel our election system isn't secure, accurate, and effective.

You can't spin up the Russian's installed a president and then go gee why do these Republicans believe Trump was cheated with almost no evidence but some videos, some hearsay, and what not.

The lying BS needs to stop. Obama was born here and not a Muslim puppet put in as president to destroy America. Trump is not a puppet of Putin. Tight elections are not won because election fraud or interference. Biden is not a puppet of AOC waiting for progressives to push him to install socialism by force. Bill Gates is not trying to install microchips in people through vaccines. The lies have to stop across the board. People have to learn to accept election outcomes and believe that our intelligence agencies are quite capable of ferreting out any attempts to install foreign puppets.

Both parties are going to way too far in this vilifying the other party. These parties can't keep making it look like we're run by other countries and expect things to go well. It's undermining not only faith in the leaders of the nation, but faith in the organizations and checks and balances that protect us from foreign interference and the type of wide spread corruption attributed to other nations. When you call an elected leader a foreign puppet like when the Republicans claimed Obama wasn't born in America and was a Muslim or the Democrats claimed Trump is some Russian puppet, the implication is that all of our intelligence and law enforcement agencies failed and are ineffective at protecting us.

So if you want talk about lies, then include them all. Because picking one side to call a liar while assuming you have possession of the truth is never gonna work well.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not too concerned about what Germany and France think about our situation regarding social media.

Censorship is nothing new. CBS canceled the Smothers Brothers back in the 60's, essentially censored them for their political content, because they wouldn't comply with their demands to review their material before they went on air. In more recent years, Howard Stern has been heavily fined by the FCC for content it deemed indecent. The watchful eye of the government has been imbedded in our society forever.

In the cases of these recent bans, private companies are acting on terms of services they created so that they would not risk being in violation of FCC and other governmental regulations. Companies and other organizations set these types of governmental compliance rules all the time, whether it involve employee safety, public health, workplace conditions, building codes, and so forth. I see the banning of Trump's Twitter account and the Parler app being no different than a company initiating a voluntary recall of a defective product.

There's also a legal motivation for these companies. Twitter, Apple, and Google could be found criminally liable for damages if a court were to determine that they willingly facilitated personal assaults and property damage. They are acting to protect their profitability.

As far as social media's influence, I agree, it's a very scary thought. But I'm more scared at how incredibly stupid and naïve some of these people's minds are that they would allow themselves to get brainwashed by these lies and half truths they see on social media.

Brain washing is nothing new.

Which is why your options are the American and in general Western Way of too much information, pick your poison. Or the Chinese and Russian way of heavily control information, the government will pick your poison.

Which one do you want?

I think the big concern because even though Trump was pushing ridiculous ideas, the reality is that a bunch of Big Tech corporations just silenced the elected leader of a Democratic Nation with no vote or say by the people. Just the implementation of their personal policies. That's a big deal. That needs to be looked at and thought about quite deeply. Do you want Big Tech companies having the ability to control the internet voice of millions and billions of people? Right now everyone is agreeable that what Trump was doing was harmful to the nation, but what if America shifted to a nation like China where the government decided to heavily interfere in Big Tech shutting your internet voice down? That's just not good.

[RiverDog]

Brain washing is nothing new.

Which is why your options are the American and in general Western Way of too much information, pick your poison. Or the Chinese and Russian way of heavily control information, the government will pick your poison.

Which one do you want?

The American way, too much information. We just have to be smart enough to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I think the big concern because even though Trump was pushing ridiculous ideas, the reality is that a bunch of Big Tech corporations just silenced the elected leader of a Democratic Nation with no vote or say by the people. Just the implementation of their personal policies. That's a big deal. That needs to be looked at and thought about quite deeply. Do you want Big Tech companies having the ability to control the internet voice of millions and billions of people? Right now everyone is agreeable that what Trump was doing was harmful to the nation, but what if America shifted to a nation like China where the government decided to heavily interfere in Big Tech shutting your internet voice down? That's just not good.

I'm perfectly OK with how Big Tech has reacted. In general, I'm not afraid of big business. For the most part, they are publicly traded companies own by hundreds of thousands of Americans and have plenty of governmental oversight. Twitter, Facebook, and Amazon acted in an exemplary fashion IMO.

[I-5]

As far as social media's influence, I agree, it's a very scary thought. But I'm more scared at how incredibly stupid and naïve some of these people's minds are that they would allow themselves to get brainwashed by these lies and half truths they see on social media.

Couldn't agree more. Although all politicians/parties lie, they usually exaggerate their good points and their opponents bad points. This type of lie that is trying to change an election is something completely different, and much, much more dangerous to democracy.

[RiverDog]

One more poison dart to score a hit on the Chief Buffoon:

Bill Belichick declines Presidential Medal of Freedom from Donald Trump

https://www.masslive.com/patriots/2021/ ... eport.html

[NorthHawk]

Businesses are going to do what they need to do to distance themselves from a situation that could cause problems or
loss of revenue. In this case I think they are relying on their lawyers and the advice was to block a poster who was
violating the terms of service on a regular basis. At least it gives them the pretext to act as they did.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm perfectly OK with how Big Tech has reacted. In general, I'm not afraid of big business. For the most part, they are publicly traded companies own by hundreds of thousands of Americans and have plenty of governmental oversight. Twitter, Facebook, and Amazon acted in an exemplary fashion IMO.

I don't care for big business myself. Though thousands of Americans may have ownership, only a handful of people with the largest number of shares control a company. They can exert far more powerful changes on society than a government. Our lives have changed far more due to big business than due to the government over the years.

They do have some governmental oversight, as far as plenty I'm not so sure of. You seem very agreeable to corporate control of Internet speech, which I'm not as comfortable with. They didn't just silence Trump. They silenced all his supporters too including ending a competing social media company in Parler. Corporate America basically showed they can completely silence a segment of the American population and destroy any competing companies.

We'll see what comes of it. I know if I had billions right now, I'd be striking hard while the fire is hot building a conservative social media and internet challenger to Google, Amazon, and Facebook much as was done when the liberal media's bias led to the creation of Fox News. If this happens, it will continue the building of two Americas and another vehicle to fuel division.

We'll see what happens. This is the environment that creates immense opportunity to more deeply divide the nation.

[RiverDog]

They do have some governmental oversight, as far as plenty I'm not so sure of.

Relative to China, I probably wouldn't say "plenty". But having worked in an environment where we were regulated by OSHA, the FDA, USDA, EPA, DOL, and many others, so I'll stand by the term "plenty".

You seem very agreeable to corporate control of Internet speech, which I'm not as comfortable with. They didn't just silence Trump. They silenced all his supporters too including ending a competing social media company in Parler. Corporate America basically showed they can completely silence a segment of the American population and destroy any competing companies.

I don't view it as "corporate control of internet speech." Companies are acting as surrogates of government regulatory agencies when they write their TOS. They are also conscious of legal obligations, afraid of being sued if someone gets hurt as a direct result of Trump's tweets or Parler's empowering of radicals. In my view, this is not companies acting unilaterally according to their own independent beliefs. It is companies self regulating according to established governmental and societal rules.

We'll see what comes of it. I know if I had billions right now, I'd be striking hard while the fire is hot building a conservative social media and internet challenger to Google, Amazon, and Facebook much as was done when the liberal media's bias led to the creation of Fox News. If this happens, it will continue the building of two Americas and another vehicle to fuel division.

We'll see what happens. This is the environment that creates immense opportunity to more deeply divide the nation.

I don't want to start cutting slack on this issue because we are afraid of the public reaction or a minority of individuals. What Google, Amazon, and Facebook did was legally and morally right, and I think the majority of the public understands that.

[RiverDog]

I just took one of those internet polls after reading a story about riot participants experiencing unexpected consequences of their actions involving their participation in last week's riot at the Capitol:

"Do you personally believe it is fair or unfair for those who were pictured at the storming of the US Capitol to lose their jobs over this incident?"

Totally fair 91%

Somewhat fair 2%

Somewhat unfair 1%

Totally unfair 6%

Other / No opinion 0%

It's not a scientific polling and the responses are likely somewhat skewed, but nevertheless, the results are striking.

[c_hawkbob]

I just took one of those internet polls after reading a story about riot participants experiencing unexpected consequences of their actions involving their participation in last week's riot at the Capitol:

"Do you personally believe it is fair or unfair for those who were pictured at the storming of the US Capitol to lose their jobs over this incident?"

Totally fair 91%

Somewhat fair 2%

Somewhat unfair 1%

Totally unfair 6%

Other / No opinion 0%

It's not a scientific polling and the responses are likely somewhat skewed, but nevertheless, the results are striking.

It's only skewed in that it only polls the people that took the time to read the story. Most of the people that would respond otherwise don't read.