I'll admit you guys were right, this is worse than I

[Aseahawkfan]

expected. Clearly people are more wound up than I thought. Trump gave them the reason they needed to absolutely lose it. I'm glad he isn't a war leader or we would be in a full on Civil War in my opinion.

I knew that a good percentage of Republicans and especially Trump supporters hate the Democrats, just didn't realize it had reached this point. I'm glad they don't have a war leader to take them to the next level. Trump ran when he had the chance to start the revolution. If he had not, what happened on Capitol Hill would have been much worse.

Well, hawktawk, I5 and whoever else predicted this, you were right. Trump mixed with lockdowns during a global pandemic is a toxic mix that is far worse than I expected.

I hope the Secret Service is up to protecting Biden. The Trump Supporters may try to kill him. Now that they're getting pushed underground by Big Tech, they are going to be gathering in places we won't see. At least law enforcement could track them and watch them when they were on Twitter, FB, and such. When they go dark and head to platforms that may or may not be public, they will be harder to track and know what they're doing. I'm sure the F.B.I. and such have hackers to see these networks they may use. I hope. These people never trusted Big Tech to start with and will only trust them less now. Man, what a crazy time.

Just wanted to admit I was wrong and this nation is way more ready to explode than I expected and Trump is lighting fuses.

[I-5]

It was HT mostly, but Bob, myself, and a few others had an inkling and not at all surprised. It wasn't hard to see it coming, because it was never about the actions, it was about the slow building up of lies that seemed so unnecessary at the time, but now in hindsight show a plan in building a cult. The lies always stood out to me, while others just chalked it up to his personal style and discounted it. We still don't know how many are actually infected with this disease, as probably quite a few republicans who voted for him are disgusted if not regretting their support at the ballot box. Fortunately, I also know a few republicans who didn't vote at all out of conscience, even if they couldn't support Clinton in 2016 or Biden in 2020. I respect them.

What I think you miss though is that these radicals are the same people who didn't storm the Capitol and try to subvert an election the last time a democrat won, so somehow they were radicalized, and Trump (and Covid if you want to believe that) has something to do with it. I am using the word cult a lot now, because that's exactly what it is. I've called Trump a lot of things, but I've never called him stupid (which is different than ignorant). He has figured out how to manipulate dissatisfaction and fed his crowds what they want to hear, praising them, sowing distrust in the system, offer easy scapegoats, and of course, a way out by following him and him only. If you're in the cult, I don't think you'll ever know it. It's too late. This didn't just happen last week, it's been building slowly the past 4 years, with little lies (Mexicans are sending criminals) to medium lies (the phone call with Ukraine was perfect) to BIG lies (the election was stolen from 'us'). As Garry Kasparov put it: "“Demagogues don't find radicals to lead, they steadily radicalize their followers one outrage at a time.” That's exactly how he's done it. Who would have thought that my republican friends who consoled me after losing in 2016 to 'just wait for the next election to get your chance to vote again' are now saying 'there is reason to doubt in the election', even if pressed and they can’t come up with any proof. One friend actually said ‘he must know something we don’t, I’m confident we’ll find out in time.’ I’m not kidding.

And if someone is thinking, 'Trump can't be this smart', he might not be, and might not need to be. I know that QAnon (which has driven a LOT of the radicalization of americans) received an important early boost as part of Russia's disinformation campaign. Smartly, they let americans to do the dirty work for them.

Thanks for posting your admission, anyway. Good move.

[RiverDog]

I'll admit that I, too, vastly underestimated the gravity of the situation. But we're not quite at the level where HT was/is worried about, so I'm going to go easy on the anointing oil.

It's hard to tell just how bad the situation is. The government, perhaps intentionally, grossly over exaugurated the terrorist threats in the months following 9/11. This could be more of the same, and I can't say that I blame them if that's true. They got caught flat footed last week, and they're not going to let it happen again. Not that I'm complaining. It's better to error on the side of safety. And, of course, the media, which feeds off of sensationalism, has and will continue to add to the hysteria regardless of how real the threat is.

I was a fleet supervisor during 9/11, and our truck drivers that were pulling oil tankers were telling me how it wasn't unusual to have a cop tailing them for 10-15 miles. We took a trip to Las Vegas a month or so after, and the city and casinos weren't exactly barren like they are now, but they were well below capacity and the fares and rates were dirt cheap due to the slack in demand. It took 45 minutes to drive across Hoover Dam. It seemed like there were more cops on the strip than patrons. At the airport, there were soldiers with assault rifles patrolling on the mezzanine.

Although it will look a little different as we'll be protecting government institutions and politicians rather than bridges and dams like we did after 9/11, I suspect that we'll see something similar for the next few months.

[Hawktawk]

I'll admit that I, too, vastly underestimated the gravity of the situation. But we're not quite at the level where HT was/is worried about, so I'm going to go easy on the anointing oil.

It's hard to tell just how bad the situation is. The government, perhaps intentionally, grossly over exaugurated the terrorist threats in the months following 9/11. This could be more of the same, and I can't say that I blame them if that's true. They got caught flat footed last week, and they're not going to let it happen again. Not that I'm complaining. It's better to error on the side of safety. And, of course, the media, which feeds off of sensationalism, has and will continue to add to the hysteria regardless of how real the threat is.

I was a fleet supervisor during 9/11, and our truck drivers that were pulling oil tankers were telling me how it wasn't unusual to have a cop tailing them for 10-15 miles. We took a trip to Las Vegas a month or so after, and the city and casinos weren't exactly barren like they are now, but they were well below capacity and the fares and rates were dirt cheap due to the slack in demand. It took 45 minutes to drive across Hoover Dam. It seemed like there were more cops on the strip than patrons. At the airport, there were soldiers with assault rifles patrolling on the mezzanine.

Although it will look a little different as we'll be protecting government institutions and politicians rather than bridges and dams like we did after 9/11, I suspect that we'll see something similar for the next few months.

We are there RD.https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/13/exhauste ... loor-riot/
This is so much more dangerous than 911. This threat is so much more deadly to america than 911. WE are seeing more and more active duty troops involved in this , cops etc. 911 was a handful of psychotic islamists that shot the golden bb and managed a horrific attack with 19 people. This is an attack on the actual vote to certify a duly elected POTUS that was directly engineered by Trump and his minions, a violent insurrection that was literally seconds from getting lawmakers killed. And some sympathetic congresspersons who were in the building at the time were reportedly relaying information to the mob https://www.chron.com/news/article/A-St ... 866621.php.

There are tens of millions of these people among us. Had Trump been remotely patriotic and conceded these people would be disgruntled but nothing on the scale of what's happening would have occurred. Instead he has pushed a baseless lie so hard and so long his followers believe the election was stolen and for the millions who see him as some sort of a messiah this will never go away. Never.When the joint chiefs of staff have issued a statement endorsing Bidens win and reminding the troops to obey the law it is proof we are a tinderbox. I don't rule out Trump at least attempting martial law as it is his last option to hold power.This statement tells me the generals fear he will do exactly that.

Its not crow i want to serve although I appreciate Aseas honesty which is rare in this forum and everywhere else.

Being bipolar AF sucks, it really does but one of the dysfunctions for me is sort of a sixth sense.I sensed pure evil that would imperil america before the man was even nominated. It's why I've been screaming bloody murder since the primaries in 2016. I got railed on in here and every other social media outlet for my "over the top" rhetoric. Got in fights with friends and family who didn't see the peril. Crazy orange satan is not sounding so over the top now is it?

I truly hope we get to inauguration day in one piece and I fear for the safety of Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. Some QAanoon wing nut embedded in the secret service or military could just pop them in the back of the head ala Anwar Sadat and be a martyr.

I don't want to be right about that either. Just saying this is the trajectory of DJTs america

[RiverDog]

We are there RD.https://www.tmz.com/2021/01/13/exhauste ... loor-riot/

Guardsmen sleeping on the floor? That's your evidence?

This is so much more dangerous than 911. This threat is so much more deadly to america than 911. WE are seeing more and more active duty troops involved in this , cops etc. 911 was a handful of psychotic islamists that shot the golden bb and managed a horrific attack with 19 people. This is an attack on the actual vote to certify a duly elected POTUS that was directly engineered by Trump and his minions, a violent insurrection that was literally seconds from getting lawmakers killed. And some sympathetic congresspersons who were in the building at the time were reportedly relaying information to the mob https://www.chron.com/news/article/A-St ... 866621.php.

I disagree. There was a huge concern about terrorism after 9/11. The City of Richland started making an evacuation plan in the event Grand Coulee Dam got blown up. I had to participate in my company's enhanced security plan where we had to install more fencing, monitoring our tanker trucks, and inspecting ingredients for our food supply. We created an entire new department, Homeland Security, and passed the Patriot Act that gave unprecedented powers to law enforcement. I haven't seen anything even close to what we went through post 9/11.

It's a scary situation, that's for sure. But we've been there before, during Pearl Harbor, the Cold War, 9/11. It's a time to be prepared and on the alert, not to run around yelling that the sky is falling.

[Hawktawk]

I've always said you could be on my jury if I were accused of a crime because your so open minded RD. But right now you're stevie wonder.I think you have a bit of a problem admitting you were wrong.

I don't ever recall seeing National guard inside the capitol sleeping on the floor. Maybe you didn't read the rest of what I wrote about our commanders obviously fearing what some of our troops might do. Statements like the one issued by the joint chiefs have never been issued in my life. I've never heard of congress people assisting an insurrection beforehttps://nypost.com/2021/01/13/nj- ... itol-riot/, as well as many active duty cops and some active duty and retired military. Add in executives, an olympic medalist in his olympic gear etc. At least 15K people responded his dog whistle and came to DC for one purpose. To try to steal an election.

Its a peril on our country forever. Were not getting the genie back in the bottle.

[I-5]

I don't think there is any comparison between this and 9/11, Pearl Harbor, or any previous attack on american soil. Those were all external threats. This is completely different, in terms of origin and spread. I don't think you can judge it solely by surface appearances. If we go by Riv's criteria for evidence of being able to see it in front of your eyes, we won't know anything until we're in the middle of it.

The only comparison that is valid is the Civil War itself. The only question is just how many believers are there in his cult would support an armed conflict. AOC was saying that she didn't feel safe being with certain congressmen last Wednesday, fearing that they might give away her location to the mob. Some of those congressmen were posting pics during the insurgency to both Twitter and Parler...with different captions used for the same photo if you know what I mean.

[RiverDog]

I don't ever recall seeing National guard inside the capitol sleeping on the floor. Maybe you didn't read the rest of what I wrote about our commanders obviously fearing what some of our troops might do. Statements like the one issued by the joint chiefs have never been issued in my life. I've never heard of congress people assisting an insurrection beforehttps://nypost.com/2021/01/13/nj- ... itol-riot/, as well as many active duty cops and some active duty and retired military. Add in executives, an olympic medalist in his olympic gear etc. At least 15K people responded his dog whistle and came to DC for one purpose. To try to steal an election.

Its a peril on our country forever. Were not getting the genie back in the bottle.

The threats are to be taken seriously, and I am not trying to soft sell them. But you tend to forget what life was like following 9/11. In this crisis, we are worried about very specific threats: Federal and state government buildings, elected officials and their families. During 9/11, we had armed troops patrolling airports. I saw security make a crippled woman, on oxygen and in a wheel chair and whom had already gone through security screening, stand up so they could search it. We had to start going through metal detectors to enter a football stadium, step into Xrays and taking off our shoes to board an airplane. They started installing concrete bollards in front of post offices, banned us from driving our cars across a dam.

All you're talking about is the military and police being put on alert. It's a reasonable precaution, a preparedness. It's not an indicator that violence is eminent, they are doing this in a very visible manner in order to discourage potential terrorists.

[RiverDog]

I don't think there is any comparison between this and 9/11, Pearl Harbor, or any previous attack on american soil. Those were all external threats. This is completely different, in terms of origin and spread. I don't think you can judge it solely by surface appearances. If we go by Riv's criteria for evidence of being able to see it in front of your eyes, we won't know anything until we're in the middle of it.

The only comparison that is valid is the Civil War itself. The only question is just how many believers are there in his cult would support an armed conflict. AOC was saying that she didn't feel safe being with certain congressmen last Wednesday, fearing that they might give away her location to the mob. Some of those congressmen were posting pics during the insurgency to both Twitter and Parler...with different captions used for the same photo if you know what I mean.

We're less than one week into this crisis. Let's give it at least a few more weeks before we start comparing it to the Civil War.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-s ... i=BB15ms5q
An olympic gold medalist
All I got to say is MAGA

[I-5]

We're less than one week into this crisis. Let's give it at least a few more weeks before we start comparing it to the Civil War.

I disagree that we're 1 week in. Are you judging the crisis solely by external appearances like the insurrection? That's the problem. This took planning and thought, so we are not 1 week in by a longshot.

I didn't say this was the CIvil War itself, just that we can't compare this to external based threats like 9/11 or Pearl Harbor. Also, those 2 horrific events didn't come with a 4 year dishonesty campaign aimed at tearing the fabric of the country apart. This is much more dangerous.

[Hawktawk]

I disagree that we're 1 week in. Are you judging the crisis solely by external appearances like the insurrection? That's the problem. This took planning and thought, so we are not 1 week in by a longshot.

Id say we are 4 years into a crisis when the loon was handed the US military as commander in chief. It's surely been a crisis for 2.5 months since this piece of utter excrement refused to do what every presidential candidate in hundreds of years has done. That would be concede as gracefully as possible and exhort his supporters to support the incoming administration for the good of america.

The big lie is why this riot happened and why this violent conspiracy cult is never going away

[RiverDog]

We're less than one week into this crisis. Let's give it at least a few more weeks before we start comparing it to the Civil War.

I disagree that we're 1 week in. Are you judging the crisis solely by external appearances like the insurrection? That's the problem. This took planning and thought, so we are not 1 week in by a longshot.

I didn't say this was the CIvil War itself, just that we can't compare this to external based threats like 9/11 or Pearl Harbor. Also, those 2 horrific events didn't come with a 4 year dishonesty campaign aimed at tearing the fabric of the country apart. This is much more dangerous.

If you want to start picking a point in time as to where the crisis started, then we can go back a heck of a lot further than a few weeks. We can go back to the election, to the start of the pandemic, to Trump's election, etc. We could do the same thing with all those aforementioned momentous events that led to Pearl Harbor and 9/11. But for the sake of argument, I'm using the starting points of 12/07/41, 09/11/01, and 01/06/21 and comparing those events forward from those dates.

This current crisis is an internal, domestic threat focused on a relatively small number of hard targets and a very limited number of personnel when compared to Pearl Harbor and 9/11 where the threat was much more widespread and indiscriminate. That doesn't mean that it isn't dead serious. It's for sure the worst crisis we've faced since 9/11. But it pales in comparison to a handful of crisis we've had over the past 100 years.

[I-5]

This current crisis is an internal, domestic threat focused on a relatively small number of hard targets and a very limited number of personnel when compared to Pearl Harbor and 9/11 where the threat was much more widespread and indiscriminate. That doesn't mean that it isn't dead serious. It's for sure the worst crisis we've faced since 9/11. But it pales in comparison to a handful of crisis we've had over the past 100 years.

How do you define what a small number is, compared to the group that perpetrated 9/11? We will see in the next couple of weeks how it will compare to the other crisis' of the past 100 years, but the damage from this can't be measured only in terms of property destroyed or lives lost. It's much deeper than that, like the loss of confidence and trust in our democracy. The other crisis didn't threaten that.

[Hawktawk]

Reported today a SECRET SERVICE AGENT is under investigation for involvement in aiding the rioters and cheering them on .
I just read a poll of republicans . 28 % strongly oppose what happened . 29% support it completely . Looking at the somewhat approve or disapprove the number who somewhat approve was 69%.

These people will never go away . They will always be armed and dangerous. It’s like having millions upon
Millions of jihadist supporters as our neighbors .

[RiverDog]

How do you define what a small number is, compared to the group that perpetrated 9/11?

So far, the only buildings or structures that are taking extra security precautions due to the warning issued by the FBI are at the state capitols and the US capitol. That's 51 cities. In 9/11, there were warnings being issued for thousands of locations, including important infrastructure like dams, bridges, utilities, transportation systems, along with threats to our food and water supply. There were warnings for any large public gatherings, like football stadiums and shopping malls. There was far, far more "hard targets" that had warnings issued to them in 9/11 aftermath than the 51 capitols identified in this latest FBI warning.

We will see in the next couple of weeks how it will compare to the other crisis' of the past 100 years, but the damage from this can't be measured only in terms of property destroyed or lives lost. It's much deeper than that, like the loss of confidence and trust in our democracy. The other crisis didn't threaten that.

I would make the argument that 9/11 had a significant effect on the American psyche and shook our confidence in the nation to its core, otherwise we wouldn't have been singing "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch and putting American flags out our windows as a means of restoring confidence and pride in our nation. Whether or not the damage done to our confidence in democracy as a result of the riots last week equals that inflicted on the American soul during 9/11 remains to be seen, but I agree it could rival that of 9/11.

Rather than any internal lack of confidence in our democracy, IMO the greater intangible damage is our reputation world wide as the moral standard to which we hold other nations to. How can we lecture the Chinese on their problems with Hong Kong when we have insurrectionists storming our own capitol?

[I-5]

Rather than any internal lack of confidence in our democracy, IMO the greater intangible damage is our reputation world wide as the moral standard to which we hold other nations to. How can we lecture the Chinese on their problems with Hong Kong when we have insurrectionists storming our own capitol?

We've already lost a lot of our world standing over the past 4 years, so that's water under the bridge at this point. China never listens to any lectures from the US, anyway. The good news with our global reputation is that Biden will rehabilitate a lot of our standing, as most people outside the US seem to understand that Trump is a blight in our history.

The problem at home is far, far greater, in that 'the call is coming from inside the house' as the saying goes, and I think the loss of trust in our democracy may never come back for some.

We'll just have to disagree.

[Hawktawk]

Agreed I5
This isn’t gonna be about blowing up buildings . It’s gonna be about blowing people away. One man arrested had several automatic weapons and 2500 rounds of ammo including 400 rounds of armor piercing bullets . His stated objective was killing Nancy Pelosi . Trumps 4 years of lies have poisoned minds of millions of people . Heavil armed people .Politicians are gonna get shot

[Aseahawkfan]

I see this differently than Riverdog. As I said in other threads I've heard this movement for a long time now. Trump if the first president this movement put into office. They often describe themselves as Libertarians, Constitutionalists, and what not. It is the same movement that blew up a Federal Building in Oklahoma back in the 90s when the F.B.I. cracked down on militias to wipe them out, the same that tried to kill Gabrielle Giffords in Arizona, the same people who who shot up the Walmart in El Paso, TX, the Minute Men, 3 Percenters, Proud Boys, and the like. They are against the left. They believe the left is trying to destroy the Constitution. They believe the left and Democrats are trying to take away their guns, their freedoms, their religion, and sell out the nation to immigrants and foreign powers. They keep morphing and growing even as the left tries to silence them, cancel them, run them out, and tell them their concerns are laughable and they're just a bunch of racists. Which further pushes them off the radar and fuels their belief the left is trying to oppress them.

And they've attacked the capitol on behalf of a lying, blowhard of a president who luckily for America ran at the first sign of violence. Had he called for his followers to take over the capitol and rise up violently, we would have had a much different results at the capitol.

I know the one of the goals of this morphing group is a low intensity Civil War using political assassination and killing of associates and supporters and attacks on businesses against them while at the same time trying to seat politicians in positions to further their Constitutionalist agenda to stand against the left and their agenda. I hope they don't get off the ground. We don't need these people further emboldened.

We need to get this vaccine out and the economy re-opened. Busy build don't have time for crap like this. But people stuck in their home watching political news 24/7 and surfing the net for political news and opinion, they have too much time on their hand for crazy. You can't keep peopled locked down indefinitely and expect things to go well. There has to be a plan to re-open and get people back to work, school, and activity or we're in for more crazy.

[Aseahawkfan]

Agreed I5
This isn’t gonna be about blowing up buildings . It’s gonna be about blowing people away. One man arrested had several automatic weapons and 2500 rounds of ammo including 400 rounds of armor piercing bullets . His stated objective was killing Nancy Pelosi . Trumps 4 years of lies have poisoned minds of millions of people . Heavil armed people .Politicians are gonna get shot

They were poisoned before Trump. He's a pot stirrer, but he didn't put the parts in the pot. They're angry about things they consider real problems. They have been for years.

But everyone keep thinking they'll just go away even after the same movement blew up the Oklahoma Federal building, kept doing smaller attacks that aren't as well as publicized, looking to attack politicians, and seating politicians around the country with a more Libertarian, Constitutionalist mindset. For you this ends with Trump, for them it just continues on until they find their real war leader.

[Hawktawk]

They were poisoned before Trump. He's a pot stirrer, but he didn't put the parts in the pot. They're angry about things they consider real problems. They have been for years.

But everyone keep thinking they'll just go away even after the same movement blew up the Oklahoma Federal building, kept doing smaller attacks that aren't as well as publicized, looking to attack politicians, and seating politicians around the country with a more Libertarian, Constitutionalist mindset. For you this ends with Trump, for them it just continues on until they find their real war leader.

I completely agree with 100% of this.https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/a ... 866983.php. I want to be optimistic asea but as you say this has been going on a long time, since Oklahoma city when military guys went rogue over some nefarious grievance and killed hundreds of people. But Trump did not just stir the pot. He supercharged a motor already turning pretty fast as the first truly white nationalist/supremacist president and one tweeting lies and hate 25000 times on twitter.This current level of evil is on him.


This cult QAnoon is a whole nother level of crazy and it's a 100% Trump supporter creation born during this presidency.

People including a retired AF Lt Col and many other military, active duty cops and firefighters, an olympic gold medalist,a sitting US congresswoman( probably tip of the iceberg IMO) believe in their heart that Biden is satan. They believe democrats run a pedophile ring and that Trump is some sort of messianic figure fighting it behind the scenes. They believe our brave troops like Trump supporter Rob O'neill and his seal team 6 comrades who shot Bin Laden in a incredibly risky mission were lying, it never happened and Bin Laden is still alive.

We are screwed America. Fubar. Asea its always been here but it's totally in the mainstream, the bloodstream, the DNA of the conservative movement. There is no way to rehabilitate the poisoned minds. Law enforcement is fielding chatter indicating the 20th and first the 17th could be very violent days all around this country. And if I'm a congressperson, Senator or governor who has crossed this president or voted against him Im getting a really big fast car with bulletproof windows to commute in .

This aint going away.I've never said it was. I've said the opposite. People will die, it will be a miracle if it doesn't happen

[Hawktawk]

So much for this clean cut kid just trying to defend the peace https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ky ... li=BBnb7Kz

And remember this 17 year old kid killed 2 people and serously wounded another(all white guys in the streets of their own town) after driving in from illinois. Its an evil on our land.

[c_hawkbob]

So much for this clean cut kid just trying to defend the peace https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/ky ... li=BBnb7Kz

And remember this 17 year old kid killed 2 people and serously wounded another(all white guys in the streets of their own town) after driving in from illinois. Its an evil on our land.

His defense attorney has got to just love this sh!t, he couldn't possibly be thumbing his nose any more directly at the court that released him on bail.