Are we in a terrible movie?

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Re: Are we in a terrible movie?

Postby RiverDog » Tue Jan 19, 2021 2:27 pm

Over the course of the past few days, the biggest grievance some of my far right friends in my network are complaining about is the contrast between law enforcement and liberal/Dem politician's response, or failure to respond, to the riots this summer and their reaction to the Capitol insurgency. It's not the only grievance, but it's the one everyone has been talking about lately.


I-5 wrote:Thanks for clarifying. I agree that's the major grievance I hear. Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there police in riot gear and mass arrests during the protests last summer? Meanwhile, we barely saw any resistance in DC, certainly no riot gear to speak of, and hundreds of people left the riot without getting arrested. I hope they can also see that. Of course, the biggest point is the purpose of the protest. One was to air grievances about police injustice, and one wanted to reverse an election....but, in their defense, the president is the one that told them the election was stolen.


There were so many BLM-spawned riots over such a long period of time that I'm sure that the response varied from police in riot gear to no police at all.

I am not trying to justify the far right's position. I've argued with a number of them over social media that the insurgency differs from the BLM riots in that it was an attempt to overthrow the government and was far more serious threat than the BLM riots. My point in our discussion is that as far as the response by liberal/Dem politicians to the BLM riots this past summer, the right does have a legitimate point, that it was tepid and wholly inadequate. That doesn't mean that I think that their actions were justified. Two wrongs don't make a right.
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Re: Are we in a terrible movie?

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:34 pm

RiverDog wrote:There were so many BLM-spawned riots over such a long period of time that I'm sure that the response varied from police in riot gear to no police at all.

I am not trying to justify the far right's position. I've argued with a number of them over social media that the insurgency differs from the BLM riots in that it was an attempt to overthrow the government and was far more serious threat than the BLM riots. My point in our discussion is that as far as the response by liberal/Dem politicians to the BLM riots this past summer, the right does have a legitimate point, that it was tepid and wholly inadequate. That doesn't mean that I think that their actions were justified. Two wrongs don't make a right.


The fact that no on here but you seems to acknowledge that left wing protesters took over six city blocks and declared a "CHAZ" (a word that exists because of these protesters) meaning Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone at Seattle's Capitol shows the clear hypocrisy. This was supported by left wing politician Kshawa Sawant. Mayor Durkan called this a "summer of love" and downplayed it. It was reported by the local news, not right wing, but the regular local news that the protesters were not allowing first responders into the area, had driven the police out of the East Precinct, and had prevented local businesses from accepting cash payments declaring everything is free. It was continued until someone was killed. Completely ignored and disregarded not only by the left wing supporters on this forum, but by the general liberal media.

What do you do when two sides are vilifying each other like this and completely ignoring the bad actors within their groups? Everything is justified if against Trump, everything is justified if for him. Fricking ridiculous.

I've seen articles posted that the Democrats are acting like Chinese Communist Party shutting down free speech and engaging in a show of power with the National Guard and the Republicans are being compared to the Nazi fascists, racists, and Klan members looking to launch a coup.

Both sides consider the other side stupid and liars.

And they're nearly evenly divided.

Not a recipe for a great time in America. Not at all.
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Re: Are we in a terrible movie?

Postby RiverDog » Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:10 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:The fact that no on here but you seems to acknowledge that left wing protesters took over six city blocks and declared a "CHAZ" (a word that exists because of these protesters) meaning Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone at Seattle's Capitol shows the clear hypocrisy. This was supported by left wing politician Kshawa Sawant. Mayor Durkan called this a "summer of love" and downplayed it. It was reported by the local news, not right wing, but the regular local news that the protesters were not allowing first responders into the area, had driven the police out of the East Precinct, and had prevented local businesses from accepting cash payments declaring everything is free. It was continued until someone was killed. Completely ignored and disregarded not only by the left wing supporters on this forum, but by the general liberal media.


You mean the Capitol Hill Civil Disturbance? :D That's the other strategy, using softer terms to describe the activity to make it sound more benign.

And to be fair, the same thing goes on with right wing sources. The other day, I got into an argument with a guy on Facebook who posted some photoshopped images of Nancy Pelosi and Kamala Harris with their statements about the BLM protests super imposed on a background of burning cities. After I kept pressing him on it, he finally told me to forget about the background and just focus on the statements. So what's the point of the photoshopped images? He was doing it for effect, trying to make his argument sound more compelling.

Aseahawkfan wrote:What do you do when two sides are vilifying each other like this and completely ignoring the bad actors within their groups? Everything is justified if against Trump, everything is justified if for him. Fricking ridiculous.

I've seen articles posted that the Democrats are acting like Chinese Communist Party shutting down free speech and engaging in a show of power with the National Guard and the Republicans are being compared to the Nazi fascists, racists, and Klan members looking to launch a coup.

Both sides consider the other side stupid and liars.

And they're nearly evenly divided.

Not a recipe for a great time in America. Not at all.


Yea, it's bad. Hopefully tomorrow will be the start of a new beginning.
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Re: Are we in a terrible movie?

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:46 pm

RiverDog wrote:You mean the Capitol Hill Civil Disturbance? :D That's the other strategy, using softer terms to describe the activity to make it sound more benign.

And to be fair, the same thing goes on with right wing sources. The other day, I got into an argument with a guy on Facebook who posted some photoshopped images of Nancy Pelosi and Kamala Harris with their statements about the BLM protests super imposed on a background of burning cities. After I kept pressing him on it, he finally told me to forget about the background and just focus on the statements. So what's the point of the photoshopped images? He was doing it for effect, trying to make his argument sound more compelling.


Don't worry. I know.

I just can't stand how each group makes it seem like they're totally justified in their belief and the other group is just dumb. I listen to this crap all the time with my conservative buddies.

Right now they're talking about Biden being this terrible guy. I'm listening to their comments wondering, "Are you actually listening to what he's saying? Are you hearing his words? They don't sound terrible." It's insane how politics and religion create this weird ability to completely ignore what is being said and rewrite in your head a new narrative. It's like Biden is talking about unity and they're hearing in their head, "I plan to take away your guns, your free speech, and your rights. I plan to imprison you." It's shocking how much they ignore what's being said or done and go with some talking head like Tucker Carlson's narrative.

Wake up and actually listen to what he's saying and doing. Stop with the BS.

Yea, it's bad. Hopefully tomorrow will be the start of a new beginning.


It should help, especially Trump shutting the F up.
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Re: Are we in a terrible movie?

Postby Hawktawk » Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:55 am

In the end he’s going pretty quietly although he’s still got 2 hours . Pardons Steve Bannon who was in trouble for a scam border wall scheme he was looting MAGA contributions from . Abolished the lobbying ban :D :D he gave a little weak sauce speech at Andrews in front of a few close aides . Bragged about the economy , took credit for the vaccines while referencing the pandemic in the past tense . He wished the incoming administration good luck while never conceding or mentioning Biden by name . Referred to having gotten more votes than any.....he wanted to say he won by a landslide but forced out “ more votes than any incumbent president” in the end it looks like he’s just crawling away with his tail between his legs , concerned about what’s next . His enablers the last 4 years are at the inauguration including pence whose farewell address did not mention or show any pictures of Trump . He may well be a pariah , even among his hard core supporters who expected civil war and martial law . Thank goodness it didn’t happen but it shows how deluded these people are . Hopefully his weak surrender will take a bit of the kerosine off the fire . One can hope . Prayers for America . Thank god we have adult leadership.
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Re: Are we in a terrible movie?

Postby RiverDog » Wed Jan 20, 2021 10:30 am

So far a pretty quiet inauguration day. Trump did not pardon himself or family members as he exited the bully pulpit. The stock market is on its way to a historic high. Biden is set to issue scores of executive orders undoing many of those Trump initiated.
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Re: Are we in a terrible movie?

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:08 am

RiverDog wrote:So far a pretty quiet inauguration day. Trump did not pardon himself or family members as he exited the bully pulpit. The stock market is on its way to a historic high. Biden is set to issue scores of executive orders undoing many of those Trump initiated.


I heard last night that pardons don't have to be disclosed and may be brought out if required by someone who was pardoned but charged later.
So in effect he may have pardoned himself and his family but we just don't know it.
Yet.
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Re: Are we in a terrible movie?

Postby RiverDog » Wed Jan 20, 2021 1:50 pm

RiverDog wrote:So far a pretty quiet inauguration day. Trump did not pardon himself or family members as he exited the bully pulpit. The stock market is on its way to a historic high. Biden is set to issue scores of executive orders undoing many of those Trump initiated.


NorthHawk wrote:I heard last night that pardons don't have to be disclosed and may be brought out if required by someone who was pardoned but charged later. So in effect he may have pardoned himself and his family but we just don't know it. Yet.


I'm pretty sure that if he had pardoned himself and/or family members, that it would have leaked out by now, especially considering how staffers no longer have to worry about Trump firing them.
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Re: Are we in a terrible movie?

Postby Hawktawk » Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:34 am

Ive seen the same reports, that he may have secretly pardoned himself and/or others. At this point hes gone . Biden doesnt care either. hes got a job to do, not a score to settle.
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Re: Are we in a terrible movie?

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Jan 21, 2021 7:03 am

Biden has said he's not going to interfere with any prosecution the Dept of Justice decides, so there may be charges laid yet.
We can count on some of the States justice depts seriously considering charges, though which any pardon can't be used.
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