RiverDog wrote:The vote went pretty much as expected, 57-43, all 50 Dems plus 7 R's. At least they got it over with quickly.
Now let's hope that we can start to put this POS behind us. I have never know a President, or as far as that goes, a public figure, that I despised more than I have Donald Trump.
RiverDog wrote:The vote went pretty much as expected, 57-43, all 50 Dems plus 7 R's. At least they got it over with quickly.
Now let's hope that we can start to put this POS behind us. I have never know a President, or as far as that goes, a public figure, that I despised more than I have Donald Trump.
Aseahawkfan wrote:In 2023 you'll know if Trump is coming back. Enjoy a few years at least not worrying about him.
Hawktawk wrote:7 was more than expected , Cassidy flipped day of vote as did Burr .,it’s probably as bipartisan a vote as most legislation ever gets if not more and many who voted to acquit including Moscow Mitch McConnell ripped Trumps conduct, Mitch even suggesting law enforcement should intervene . All while hiding behind the fig leaf of constitutionally impeaching a potus who is out of office . That’s particularly laughable since it was he who refused to bring the senate back while trump was still in office . It’s truly a soulless amoral bottom feeder who would want these MAGA goons as voters anyway . The party is gutted . This isn’t getting cleaned up anytime soon.
RiverDog wrote:It's a little more than a fig leaf as there's a number of Constitutional scholars that believe impeaching a former POTUS isn't what the framers had in mind when they wrote the article regarding impeachment. However, I do agree with you that it was an excuse. The Republicans want to have their cake and eat it, too: They want to condemn the insurrection and condemn Trump's actions/inactions yet they don't want to offend his base, and there was no greater example of having it both ways than McConnell's nonsensical position. Lindsey Graham issued hypocritical statements as well.
As far as it not "getting cleaned up anytime soon", we'll see. Most of us didn't think that Trump had a snowball's chance in hell of winning in 2016 or coming as close as he did in 2020, so I'm not making any political forecasts. There's definitely two polar opposite wings, with Josh Hawley and Matt Gaetz in Trump's corner and Romney, Thune, Liz Chaney, etc on the anti Trump side, and I don't think they can co-exist with Trump lurking in the background.
Hawktawk wrote:7 was more than expected , Cassidy flipped day of vote as did Burr .,it’s probably as bipartisan a vote as most legislation ever gets...
Hawktawk wrote:First to be impeached first term . First impeached twice . First to have senators of his own party vote against him , 7 here is a huge number . First to be impeached for soliciting help in an election from a foreign power, first and hopeful the only to be impeached for a riot.
RiverDog wrote:Andrew Johnson was impeached in his first term. He took office in April of 1865 following Lincoln's assassination and was impeached in 1868.
But I understand and agree with your point. Even though there is a legitimate and understandable risk that this will continue to rub salt in the wound, it was important to lay down a historical marker on this ugly episode that in my mind went all the way back to the run-up to the election with Trump's insinuation that the only way he could lose was if the election was rigged. The culmination was a murderous riot at the nation's Capitol, a place analogous to a church or temple, and was a national embarrassment the likes of which I've never experienced. It's something you don't expect to see in a civilized nation, and Trump's impeachment and the bipartisan majority vote to convict is a recognition of his complicity in it even though they didn't get the required 2/3's.
I would take up arms against states like California, Washington State, and New York if they opposed it.
c_hawkbob wrote:[I would take up arms against states like California, Washington State, and New York if they opposed it.
That might be the most disgustingly evil fascists sh!t I've ever read on this board.
Definition of fascism
1 (often capitalized) : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
early instances of army fascism and brutality
This is America. You just don't get to force your politics on everybody.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I hope after the pandemic is better.
But if the Democrats keep pushing what they're pushing, I see it getting worse. The differences are getting to the point where there are issues that neither side will give on. Once you get enough issues that neither side is giving on, that's when the nation reaches the point of civil war.
I know for certain I would support secession right now from states like California, New York, and Washington State if done in reasonable conservative manner. I would take up arms against states like California, Washington State, and New York if they opposed it. I do not see a path forward where I see an agreeable split from the Democrats. The Democratic path for America is a cesspool of identity politics, victim economics, alternative history that pulls down the nation, and a general bad path forward.
Aseahawkfan wrote:My main issue is Donald Trump is not what I support. The idea of revolution and separation is something I do support at this point. The Democratic agenda is not a good one. The Democrats have made it so anyone who disagrees with them gets canceled by Big Tech, labeled a racist, misogynist, or anti-immigration. They vilify and try to cancel using the left wing media arms anyone that says anything they don't like.
Aseahawkfan wrote:If we put a more reasonable conservative leader in power and we'll split this country up and let the Democrats have their cesspool nation that I want no part of of victims, alternative history, socialism, universal basic income, and the like. I highly support the conservative base building their own social media, internet network, and punishing all these companies that are socially ostracizing and wielding their business power in a way that is targeting a particular political group. I think at this point the Democrats are sending a clear signal it is time to split the nation into a conservative Republican half and a Democratic "progressive" half.
I hope to see at least the start of this in my lifetime as I would highly support it.
You seem to want to ignore these issues because they were used on Donald Trump. But I don't see them as good like you do. The amount of power wielded by Big Tech and their obvious bias for the Democratic Left is not tolerable to me. If they have to be driven out and pulled down since they have taken an obvious side in politics, then that is what must be done.
Biden's talk of bipartisanship and healing the country seems to be all talk and no substance. The way they are going about the coronavirus legislation is a prime example. Same with stopping construction on the Keystone pipeline. The Dems have little interest in compromise or bipartisanship. It only applies when the opposition is in power. It is a buzz word to them, a campaign tactic needed to attract moderates and put them in office.
NorthHawk wrote:The seeming fracture of the Republican Party is an interesting dynamic. I think that come election time in 2 years, they will come together to win back the Senate. However, a lot of R Senators on both sides are getting older and may not run again. Already we've seen some of them declare their intentions to not run, so the really interesting competition will be the 2 sides going at each other to win the right to run under the Republican banner. It may be the determining factor as to whether the Republican Party is fully the Trump Party or if saner heads will push out the fringe element. Trump could then go out and form his own party as he's suggested he might. It's going to be another interesting couple of years albeit on a smaller scale than the last 4.
Hawktawk wrote:I see a very rough path forward for the Rs in 22 at least. The party is split 75-25 on whether to trust the election results. Independents are split 66/33 on the election .The wipeout in Georgia after Trump's 6 weeks of sedition showed a steep erosion in support as the president's actions became more and more bizarre. Ossoff and Warnock who barely squeaked into a runoff both outperformed Bidens margins in the state. And remember the special election was held before the riot.
I despise Lindsey Graham perhaps even more than trump but he's right about McConnells bizarre speech absolutely ripping a man he just voted to acquit, laying the blame directly at his feet and suggesting perhaps conventional law enforcement was the best way to deal with him. It did put a lot on the backs of republicans for 22 and beyond.Everyone running in 24 voted to acquit except Murkowski.
Its a campaign commercial for every Democratic senatorial candidate. And remember over half the house republicans voted to object to the counting of the votes AFTER THE INSURRECTION.They are skunks forever in history, traitors.They are all up obviously.
I think this insurrection and the inability of the republicans to distance themselves from trump will hurt them for quite a while.
If Biden gets the virus under control and Manchin doesnt let him go to far afield in the next 2 years I dont see a fractured Republican party getting back power in 21 months, no way.
Hawktawk wrote:Biden’s pandemic plan is quite popular with a majority of voters . That’s a pocketbook issue . As for republicans being for my pocketbook I personally haven’t seen it . In the last 12 months we have had the greatest transfer of wealth in American history . The massive tax cut went 99 percent to stock buybacks and has blown a trillions upon trillions hole in the budget . It’s why republicans have suddenly rediscovered fiscal conservatism after 1.3 trillion annual deficits pre pandemic . They don’t want to give a couple grand to the peasants but watched the federal reserve pump TRILLIONS into purchasing actual securities on Wall Street . As a low wage grass janitor who saw Wall Street as a Ponzi scheme I didn’t invest but used my money for hot cars and boats and having fun instead of waiting till I’m in a diaper on oxygen to enjoy my life. Don’t tell me about socialism when my great grandkids are buying jack Daniels stock and I don’t drink it much less benefit from the stock market . I’m a little tired of hearing about “small businesses “ being in danger as I’m routinely screwed by owners worth millions , one worth tens of millions for whom I didn’t get a raise my last 6 years despite some of the best greens in the northwest. I just don’t buy it . Not a fan of an immediate jump to a 15 dollar wage but I think it’s immoral it’s 780 per hour . I know my son has worked as a vet assistant for 9 years , very knowledgeable and hard working . He makes 15 per hour and it’s not enough to support him so we help. But the owner was able to do an expansion , buy new x ray equipment etc and a new SUV every couple of years .
Biden currently has a 60% approval for his plans overall so far . It’s a number Trump never hit within 10 points of. But again this riot is the bottom line . How will Americans respond to the party of insurrection. Our memories are short but they weren’t post 911 and I don’t think they will be now .
RiverDog wrote:Trump is going to be in the headlines for the next 4 years, if not longer. It's like mother's milk to his movement. That's my fear, that we keep him relevant.
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