The (2nd) Impeachment of Donald Trump

[RiverDog]

The vote went pretty much as expected, 57-43, all 50 Dems plus 7 R's. At least they got it over with quickly.

Now let's hope that we can start to put this POS behind us. I have never know a President, or as far as that goes, a public figure, that I despised more than I have Donald Trump.

[Aseahawkfan]

The vote went pretty much as expected, 57-43, all 50 Dems plus 7 R's. At least they got it over with quickly.

Now let's hope that we can start to put this POS behind us. I have never know a President, or as far as that goes, a public figure, that I despised more than I have Donald Trump.

In 2023 you'll know if Trump is coming back. Enjoy a few years at least not worrying about him.

[RiverDog]

The vote went pretty much as expected, 57-43, all 50 Dems plus 7 R's. At least they got it over with quickly.

Now let's hope that we can start to put this POS behind us. I have never know a President, or as far as that goes, a public figure, that I despised more than I have Donald Trump.

In 2023 you'll know if Trump is coming back. Enjoy a few years at least not worrying about him.

Now the drama of at least two criminal trials begins to unfold. Although he will no longer be front page 24/7 like he was when he had the bully pulpit, he'll still be in our faces for years to come regardless if he runs for POTUS again.

[Hawktawk]

7 was more than expected , Cassidy flipped day of vote as did Burr .,it’s probably as bipartisan a vote as most legislation ever gets if not more and many who voted to acquit including Moscow Mitch McConnell ripped Trumps conduct, Mitch even suggesting law enforcement should intervene . All while hiding behind the fig leaf of constitutionally impeaching a potus who is out of office . That’s particularly laughable since it was he who refused to bring the senate back while trump was still in office . It’s truly a soulless amoral bottom feeder who would want these MAGA goons as voters anyway . The party is gutted . This isn’t getting cleaned up anytime soon.

[RiverDog]

7 was more than expected , Cassidy flipped day of vote as did Burr .,it’s probably as bipartisan a vote as most legislation ever gets if not more and many who voted to acquit including Moscow Mitch McConnell ripped Trumps conduct, Mitch even suggesting law enforcement should intervene . All while hiding behind the fig leaf of constitutionally impeaching a potus who is out of office . That’s particularly laughable since it was he who refused to bring the senate back while trump was still in office . It’s truly a soulless amoral bottom feeder who would want these MAGA goons as voters anyway . The party is gutted . This isn’t getting cleaned up anytime soon.

It's a little more than a fig leaf as there's a number of Constitutional scholars that believe impeaching a former POTUS isn't what the framers had in mind when they wrote the article regarding impeachment. However, I do agree with you that it was an excuse. The Republicans want to have their cake and eat it, too: They want to condemn the insurrection and condemn Trump's actions/inactions yet they don't want to offend his base, and there was no greater example of having it both ways than McConnell's nonsensical position. Lindsey Graham issued hypocritical statements as well.

As far as it not "getting cleaned up anytime soon", we'll see. Most of us didn't think that Trump had a snowball's chance in hell of winning in 2016 or coming as close as he did in 2020, so I'm not making any political forecasts. There's definitely two polar opposite wings in the Republican Party, with Josh Hawley and Matt Gaetz in Trump's corner and Romney, Thune, Liz Chaney, etc on the anti Trump side, and I don't think they can co-exist with Trump lurking in the background.

[Aseahawkfan]

It's a little more than a fig leaf as there's a number of Constitutional scholars that believe impeaching a former POTUS isn't what the framers had in mind when they wrote the article regarding impeachment. However, I do agree with you that it was an excuse. The Republicans want to have their cake and eat it, too: They want to condemn the insurrection and condemn Trump's actions/inactions yet they don't want to offend his base, and there was no greater example of having it both ways than McConnell's nonsensical position. Lindsey Graham issued hypocritical statements as well.

As far as it not "getting cleaned up anytime soon", we'll see. Most of us didn't think that Trump had a snowball's chance in hell of winning in 2016 or coming as close as he did in 2020, so I'm not making any political forecasts. There's definitely two polar opposite wings, with Josh Hawley and Matt Gaetz in Trump's corner and Romney, Thune, Liz Chaney, etc on the anti Trump side, and I don't think they can co-exist with Trump lurking in the background.

The biggest advantage the Republicans have is when you look at option B.

Option A or A2 or whatever you want to call it is support Donald Trump who you know has a good chance of winning. You get the crazy of Donald Trump, but a truly conservative presidency who does a lot of what the conservatives want.

Or you get Option B, the Democratic Platform.

1. Higher taxes,

2. Supposedly more lax immigration,

3. Climate Armageddon Politics.

4. Race Baiting politics with statues pulled down, even apparently Lincoln canceled in San Francisco, and the constant specter of reparation, defund the police, and the constant refrain of America is terribly racist and all the black and brown folk are being treated like a tyrannical nation.

5. The transgender issues that have gone far past acceptance where transgender males get to compete in female sports even it completely obliterates female records.

6. Homeless drug addicts are victims who get to wander cities where cops ignore them while they rob cars, beg outside every store, create tent cities where they share drugs and just do nothing all day.

7. Cancel culture where you attempt to fire, silence, or get removed anyone that disagrees with your views.

8. Universal basic income. You get paid, taxed, and given a free ride by the government taking money from those who have it. It will start with the wealthy, but keep getting pushed down as the wealthy leave the nation and the government needs more money to pay for the UBI and has to get it from working people.

Even when I look at Trump and wish the Republicans would find a better candidate, when I look at option B I don't want anything to do with that either. I would very quickly return to Republican support if they would get rid of Trump as the Democrats as a party are not what I see as a quality future for America. They look like a party looking to appease and compromise with elements in their party that want to destroy this nation in a worse way than the Republicans and that's including the Trump supporters that attacked the capitol.

Just as Trump started his line of crazy in the Republican Party, I see Joe Biden as one of the last centrist Democrats. As Biden's centrist Democrat faction of the Democratic Party dies off, the full on crazy left of The Squad will infect more of the Democratic Party pushing them to more and more crazy use of the government that will eventually look like a nation that will destroy itself as they tax working and productive people into the ground as Socialism's stated goal is the destroy the Middle Class as they shield the upper class according to Marx. The Squad's economic ideas are very much in Marxist fantasy land which leads to a terrible nation where a productive group of people is expected to take care of a growing number of unmotivated people who have nothing to work for get handouts from people running on a hamster wheel trying to get ahead while all their earnings are taken. If they say anything about it, they just get shouted down as racist, sexist, classist, whatever.

That's the type of politics the Democratic Party is headed for in the future.

[c_hawkbob]

7 was more than expected , Cassidy flipped day of vote as did Burr .,it’s probably as bipartisan a vote as most legislation ever gets...

It was the most bipartisan impeachment vote ever. Trump's just breaking all kinds of impeachment records ain't he? First ever double, most bipartisan vote to oust... a lot to be proud of there.

[Hawktawk]

First to be impeached first term . First impeached twice . First to have senators of his own party vote against him , 7 here is a huge number . First to be impeached for soliciting help in an election from a foreign power, first and hopeful the only to be impeached for a riot .

I agree neither impeachment should have happened . Not because there weren’t crimes worthy. Hell he should have been impeached for his treasonous conduct with Russia . The truth is he’s been unfit for office from day one and should have been removed under the 25th amendment in early 2017 if our leaders had any integrity . We put up with 5 years of this psychotic evil man and 50 million still pine for him . I wondered how hitler could rise . Now I know.

[RiverDog]

First to be impeached first term . First impeached twice . First to have senators of his own party vote against him , 7 here is a huge number . First to be impeached for soliciting help in an election from a foreign power, first and hopeful the only to be impeached for a riot.

Andrew Johnson was impeached in his first term. He took office in April of 1865 following Lincoln's assassination and was impeached in 1868.

But I understand and agree with your point. Even though there is a legitimate and understandable risk that this will continue to rub salt in the wound, it was important to lay down a historical marker on this ugly episode that in my mind went all the way back to the run-up to the election with Trump's insinuation that the only way he could lose was if the election was rigged. The culmination was a murderous riot at the nation's Capitol, a place analogous to a church or temple, and was a national embarrassment the likes of which I've never experienced. It's something you don't expect to see in a civilized nation, and Trump's impeachment and the bipartisan majority vote to convict is a recognition of his complicity in it even though they didn't get the required 2/3's.

[Aseahawkfan]

Andrew Johnson was impeached in his first term. He took office in April of 1865 following Lincoln's assassination and was impeached in 1868.

But I understand and agree with your point. Even though there is a legitimate and understandable risk that this will continue to rub salt in the wound, it was important to lay down a historical marker on this ugly episode that in my mind went all the way back to the run-up to the election with Trump's insinuation that the only way he could lose was if the election was rigged. The culmination was a murderous riot at the nation's Capitol, a place analogous to a church or temple, and was a national embarrassment the likes of which I've never experienced. It's something you don't expect to see in a civilized nation, and Trump's impeachment and the bipartisan majority vote to convict is a recognition of his complicity in it even though they didn't get the required 2/3's.

I hope after the pandemic is better.

But if the Democrats keep pushing what they're pushing, I see it getting worse. The differences are getting to the point where there are issues that neither side will give on. Once you get enough issues that neither side is giving on, that's when the nation reaches the point of civil war.

I know for certain I would support secession right now from states like California, New York, and Washington State if done in reasonable conservative manner. I would take up arms against states like California, Washington State, and New York if they opposed it. I do not see a path forward where I see an agreeable split from the Democrats. The Democratic path for America is a cesspool of identity politics, victim economics, alternative history that pulls down the nation, and a general bad path forward.

My main issue is Donald Trump is not what I support. The idea of revolution and separation is something I do support at this point. The Democratic agenda is not a good one. The Democrats have made it so anyone who disagrees with them gets canceled by Big Tech, labeled a racist, misogynist, or anti-immigration. They vilify and try to cancel using the left wing media arms anyone that says anything they don't like.

If we put a more reasonable conservative leader in power and we'll split this country up and let the Democrats have their cesspool nation that I want no part of of victims, alternative history, socialism, universal basic income, and the like. I highly support the conservative base building their own social media, internet network, and punishing all these companies that are socially ostracizing and wielding their business power in a way that is targeting a particular political group. I think at this point the Democrats are sending a clear signal it is time to split the nation into a conservative Republican half and a Democratic "progressive" half.

I hope to see at least the start of this in my lifetime as I would highly support it.

You seem to want to ignore these issues because they were used on Donald Trump. But I don't see them as good like you do. The amount of power wielded by Big Tech and their obvious bias for the Democratic Left is not tolerable to me. If they have to be driven out and pulled down since they have taken an obvious side in politics, then that is what must be done.

[c_hawkbob]

I would take up arms against states like California, Washington State, and New York if they opposed it.

That might be the most disgustingly evil fascists sh!t I've ever read on this board.

Definition of fascism
1 (often capitalized) : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
early instances of army fascism and brutality

This is America. You just don't get to force your politics on everybody.

[Hawktawk]

[I would take up arms against states like California, Washington State, and New York if they opposed it.

That might be the most disgustingly evil fascists sh!t I've ever read on this board.

Definition of fascism
1 (often capitalized) : a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
2: a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control
early instances of army fascism and brutality

This is America. You just don't get to force your politics on everybody.

Yeah I got a just wow out of that coming from a generally reasonable poster.Its a lot like what the Trumpanzees tried to do, overturn the will of 80 million by force led by the defeated President himself.Talk about triggered

Of all the things trump did Ill give him credit for opening my eyes. 5 years ago I was a homophobic redneck who spouted whatever my mouthpieces in the right wing media told my willing ears. I've come to understand throughout this increasingly bizarre and fascist racist presidency that "take back our country" has always been a rallying cry by primarily white people against those who disagree with their capitalism is god, brown skinned uppity people are bad, gays and transgenders can go to the bathroom in the bushes, socialism is from the devil. etc etc etc. I've come to understand that america belongs every much to the inner city homeless, the gays, the socialists as it does to us old white yee haws. As much to the liberals in Seattle as the conservatives in moses Lake. As a democracy we settle our differences at the ballot box. Those who defend the clearly broken beyond repair electoral college with its clear potential for tampering always say "we don't want California electing the president" then why 20K people in wisconsin? why did a bunch of red neck white supremacists and slavish liberals in 2016 give us the choice of Trump or Hillary? Are Californians not americans? What's an american or not an american? Is my very liberal sister Mary who is a clinical psychologist at UW and has pretty much bankrupted herself helping out others not american?

I hear all the fear mongering about the new administration which in most respects looks like Obama term 3 to me which I won't agree with much of it but will be much more accepting of since there is a rational competent adult who is fixed on solutions for america, not his twitter feed or popularity. I like that there's a plan for stuff as opposed to chaos and tweets and firing of top officials etc.

Where do we go from here? Iver heard serious rumblings from the never trump camp of splitting and supporting a center right party focused on the principles on which the party was founded. I watched people Like Louisiana senator Bill Cassidy vote to convict and come to the mike and give a strong and succinct answer. "I vote to convict Trump because he is guilty" On the other hand the absolutely sickening Lindsey Graham gave an impassioned speech ripping the entire trial, stating by that standard Kamala Harris will be impeached in 2022 if the Ts win back the congress for having tweeted a bail fund number for the thousands of BLM protesters being locked up last june . He ripped McConnel for his speech excoriating Trumps actions saying he may have gotten some things off his chest but he put a lot on the Ts back for 22( why is it never trump that put it on the parties back, lost the house and senate and white house etc?). He pumped Lara Trump for senator in SC to replace Richard Burr who he also ripped for his vote, called her "the future of the party" . He implored the party to embrace Donald trump as the future of the party. You can't make it up.

Graham is a curious case. You dont even need to go back to before Trump was president to find extremely critical statements from Graham then all of a sudden a 180 hard flip.Whatever blackmail they had on Falwell Jr they must have a lot more on Graham. I root for the brave Rs , the only Rs left and I pray for their safety, I thank them for restoring a bit of my faith in american politics..

The rest are forever the Trumpanzee party no matter how hard they scrub their hands the blood of Brian Stitnik is gonna be on them, the blood of a wounded democracy. I'll never support that no matter how far off the deep end the Dems go and neither will a majority of the voters and that's just too bad if the trumpians dont like it. We settle things at the ballot box here in america..

[RiverDog]

I hope after the pandemic is better.

But if the Democrats keep pushing what they're pushing, I see it getting worse. The differences are getting to the point where there are issues that neither side will give on. Once you get enough issues that neither side is giving on, that's when the nation reaches the point of civil war.

I know for certain I would support secession right now from states like California, New York, and Washington State if done in reasonable conservative manner. I would take up arms against states like California, Washington State, and New York if they opposed it. I do not see a path forward where I see an agreeable split from the Democrats. The Democratic path for America is a cesspool of identity politics, victim economics, alternative history that pulls down the nation, and a general bad path forward.

The divide isn't between red states and blue states. The divide is between rural and semi rural vs. urban and suburban. It's western Washington, specifically the Seattle area, vs. eastern Washington. It's a divide that is played out in many states across the nation, from California to New York and from to Texas to Michigan.

There was a proposal that eastern Washington join Idaho and eastern Oregon to form a new state. If a civil war or revolution were to occur, the battle lines would not be traditional state borders.

My main issue is Donald Trump is not what I support. The idea of revolution and separation is something I do support at this point. The Democratic agenda is not a good one. The Democrats have made it so anyone who disagrees with them gets canceled by Big Tech, labeled a racist, misogynist, or anti-immigration. They vilify and try to cancel using the left wing media arms anyone that says anything they don't like.

Biden's talk of bipartisanship, being President of all the people, and healing the country is all talk and no substance. The way they are going about the coronavirus legislation is a prime example. Same with stopping construction on the Keystone pipeline. The Dems have little interest in compromise or bipartisanship. To them, It only applies when the Republicans have power. It is nothing more than a buzz word to them, a campaign tactic needed to attract moderates and put them in office. It's my way or the highway, the exact same attitude that Trump had in his dealings with his opposition. The Dems have their power and they're going to use it and put the screws to the other side. There's no such thing as governing by building a consensus or forming some sort of coalition in today's politics.

If we put a more reasonable conservative leader in power and we'll split this country up and let the Democrats have their cesspool nation that I want no part of of victims, alternative history, socialism, universal basic income, and the like. I highly support the conservative base building their own social media, internet network, and punishing all these companies that are socially ostracizing and wielding their business power in a way that is targeting a particular political group. I think at this point the Democrats are sending a clear signal it is time to split the nation into a conservative Republican half and a Democratic "progressive" half.

I hope to see at least the start of this in my lifetime as I would highly support it.

You seem to want to ignore these issues because they were used on Donald Trump. But I don't see them as good like you do. The amount of power wielded by Big Tech and their obvious bias for the Democratic Left is not tolerable to me. If they have to be driven out and pulled down since they have taken an obvious side in politics, then that is what must be done.

I'm not nearly as dissatisfied with the state of affairs as you seem to be. There's a lot I don't like about this country but it's anywhere close to the point that I'd consider supporting a revolution.

[NorthHawk]

The seeming fracture of the Republican Party is an interesting dynamic.
I think that come election time in 2 years, they will come together to win back the Senate.
However, a lot of R Senators on both sides are getting older and may not run again. Already we've seen some of them declare their intentions to not run, so the really interesting competition will
be the 2 sides going at each other to win the right to run under the Republican banner. It may be the determining factor as to whether the Republican Party is fully the Trump Party or if saner heads
will push out the fringe element. Trump could then go out and form his own party as he's suggested he might.
It's going to be another interesting couple of years albeit on a smaller scale than the last 4.

[NorthHawk]

Biden's talk of bipartisanship and healing the country seems to be all talk and no substance. The way they are going about the coronavirus legislation is a prime example. Same with stopping construction on the Keystone pipeline. The Dems have little interest in compromise or bipartisanship. It only applies when the opposition is in power. It is a buzz word to them, a campaign tactic needed to attract moderates and put them in office.

He's been in power for less than a month. In many cases politicians that assume power like to get the ugly decisions done early so the electorate has time to forget or they can do things that are more to their liking.
The Republicans when in power didn't hesitate to ram through anything they wanted, so they aren't exactly the paragons of cooperation, either. At least Biden is listening to them, but there comes a time when a leader
has to make the decisions they deem necessary and move forward. With the Covid relief, there isn't much time to help people who really need it. Some of it will go to those that don't need it, but there are ways to claw
it back through taxes.

[RiverDog]

The seeming fracture of the Republican Party is an interesting dynamic. I think that come election time in 2 years, they will come together to win back the Senate. However, a lot of R Senators on both sides are getting older and may not run again. Already we've seen some of them declare their intentions to not run, so the really interesting competition will be the 2 sides going at each other to win the right to run under the Republican banner. It may be the determining factor as to whether the Republican Party is fully the Trump Party or if saner heads will push out the fringe element. Trump could then go out and form his own party as he's suggested he might. It's going to be another interesting couple of years albeit on a smaller scale than the last 4.

It's going to be an uphill battle for the R's to win back the Senate in 2022. The R's have to defend 20 seats, the Dems just 14, and as you noted, there have been several R's that have announced their retirement, namely Toomey in PA, Portman in OH, and Burr in NC, all swing states. Grassley of Iowa, a state that has been moving from red to purple, will be 89 and has hinted at retirement. It will be very difficult to defend all those purple states without the power of incumbency. Blount of MO won in 2016 with just 49% of the vote. First term Sen. Ron Johnson of WI, a state that fell to Biden, won in 2016 by just 50.2%. The R's have their work cut out for them just keeping what they have.

There are zero Dem Senators up for re-election in states that Trump won in 2020 and as yet, no Dem up for re-election in 2022 has announced their retirement. The Republicans have a better chance of winning back the House than they do the Senate.

[Hawktawk]

I see a very rough path forward for the Rs in 22 at least. The party is split 75-25 on whether to trust the election results. Independents are split 66/33 on the election .The wipeout in Georgia after Trump's 6 weeks of sedition showed a steep erosion in support as the president's actions became more and more bizarre. Ossoff and Warnock who barely squeaked into a runoff both outperformed Bidens margins in the state. And remember the special election was held before the riot.

I despise Lindsey Graham perhaps even more than trump but he's right about McConnells bizarre speech absolutely ripping a man he just voted to acquit, laying the blame directly at his feet and suggesting perhaps conventional law enforcement was the best way to deal with him. It did put a lot on the backs of republicans for 22 and beyond.Everyone running in 24 voted to acquit except Murkowski.

Its a campaign commercial for every Democratic senatorial candidate. And remember over half the house republicans voted to object to the counting of the votes AFTER THE INSURRECTION.They are skunks forever in history, traitors.They are all up obviously.

I think this insurrection and the inability of the republicans to distance themselves from trump will hurt them for quite a while.

If Biden gets the virus under control and Manchin doesnt let him go to far afield in the next 2 years I dont see a fractured Republican party getting back power in 21 months, no way.

[RiverDog]

I see a very rough path forward for the Rs in 22 at least. The party is split 75-25 on whether to trust the election results. Independents are split 66/33 on the election .The wipeout in Georgia after Trump's 6 weeks of sedition showed a steep erosion in support as the president's actions became more and more bizarre. Ossoff and Warnock who barely squeaked into a runoff both outperformed Bidens margins in the state. And remember the special election was held before the riot.

I despise Lindsey Graham perhaps even more than trump but he's right about McConnells bizarre speech absolutely ripping a man he just voted to acquit, laying the blame directly at his feet and suggesting perhaps conventional law enforcement was the best way to deal with him. It did put a lot on the backs of republicans for 22 and beyond.Everyone running in 24 voted to acquit except Murkowski.

Its a campaign commercial for every Democratic senatorial candidate. And remember over half the house republicans voted to object to the counting of the votes AFTER THE INSURRECTION.They are skunks forever in history, traitors.They are all up obviously.

I think this insurrection and the inability of the republicans to distance themselves from trump will hurt them for quite a while.

If Biden gets the virus under control and Manchin doesnt let him go to far afield in the next 2 years I dont see a fractured Republican party getting back power in 21 months, no way.

A lot of people turned out in 2020 just to vote against Trump. My wife was one of them. Prior to last fall, she had never voted in her life, and she'd been eligible since 1972. And she wasn't alone. 2020 featured a historic turnout. Without a true Demon to vote against, will all those Dem voters turn out again if Trump isn't running?

You and me both thought that the Republicans were going to take a blood bath in 2020 and it didn't happen. We thought that Biden was going to win by a landslide, that the Dems would easily take the Senate and expand their advantage in the House. The fact is that our opinions aren't as mainstream as we'd like to think.

Voters have a very short attention span and are notoriously single issued. We also don't know what the nation is going to look like in November of 2022. Will we get control of the pandemic? Will there be a war or some other foreign crisis? Will the summer of 2021 feature the same protests and riots we saw in 2020? Will there be a terrorist attack? 21 months is a long time. I'd caution against the "no way" predictions.

[NorthHawk]

Appeal to the voters pocket books. It's a winner and a part of why a lot of voters vote R instead of D and will possibly move some of those that think the R's are looking out for them to rethink that viewpoint.
For a bogey man, paint the R's as controlled by White Supremacists and other extremists. The pocketbook and extremism is a game the R's have been playing for years with a lot of success. And when that
hasn't worked, they've gerrymandered and suppressed voters to paint their way to victory, but now the D's have solid examples of Republican complicity with or acceptance of extremism including anti constitutional actions.

[Hawktawk]

Biden’s pandemic plan is quite popular with a majority of voters . That’s a pocketbook issue . As for republicans being for my pocketbook I personally haven’t seen it . In the last 12 months we have had the greatest transfer of wealth in American history . The massive tax cut went 99 percent to stock buybacks and has blown a trillions upon trillions hole in the budget . It’s why republicans have suddenly rediscovered fiscal conservatism after 1.3 trillion annual deficits pre pandemic . They don’t want to give a couple grand to the peasants but watched the federal reserve pump TRILLIONS into purchasing actual securities on Wall Street . As a low wage grass janitor who saw Wall Street as a Ponzi scheme I didn’t invest but used my money for hot cars and boats and having fun instead of waiting till I’m in a diaper on oxygen to enjoy my life. Don’t tell me about socialism when my great grandkids are buying jack Daniels stock and I don’t drink it much less benefit from the stock market . I’m a little tired of hearing about “small businesses “ being in danger as I’m routinely screwed by owners worth millions , one worth tens of millions for whom I didn’t get a raise my last 6 years despite some of the best greens in the northwest. I just don’t buy it . Not a fan of an immediate jump to a 15 dollar wage but I think it’s immoral it’s 780 per hour . I know my son has worked as a vet assistant for 9 years , very knowledgeable and hard working . He makes 15 per hour and it’s not enough to support him so we help. But the owner was able to do an expansion , buy new x ray equipment etc and a new SUV every couple of years .

Biden currently has a 60% approval for his plans overall so far . It’s a number Trump never hit within 10 points of. But again this riot is the bottom line . How will Americans respond to the party of insurrection. Our memories are short but they weren’t post 911 and I don’t think they will be now .

[NorthHawk]

Biden’s pandemic plan is quite popular with a majority of voters . That’s a pocketbook issue . As for republicans being for my pocketbook I personally haven’t seen it . In the last 12 months we have had the greatest transfer of wealth in American history . The massive tax cut went 99 percent to stock buybacks and has blown a trillions upon trillions hole in the budget . It’s why republicans have suddenly rediscovered fiscal conservatism after 1.3 trillion annual deficits pre pandemic . They don’t want to give a couple grand to the peasants but watched the federal reserve pump TRILLIONS into purchasing actual securities on Wall Street . As a low wage grass janitor who saw Wall Street as a Ponzi scheme I didn’t invest but used my money for hot cars and boats and having fun instead of waiting till I’m in a diaper on oxygen to enjoy my life. Don’t tell me about socialism when my great grandkids are buying jack Daniels stock and I don’t drink it much less benefit from the stock market . I’m a little tired of hearing about “small businesses “ being in danger as I’m routinely screwed by owners worth millions , one worth tens of millions for whom I didn’t get a raise my last 6 years despite some of the best greens in the northwest. I just don’t buy it . Not a fan of an immediate jump to a 15 dollar wage but I think it’s immoral it’s 780 per hour . I know my son has worked as a vet assistant for 9 years , very knowledgeable and hard working . He makes 15 per hour and it’s not enough to support him so we help. But the owner was able to do an expansion , buy new x ray equipment etc and a new SUV every couple of years .

Biden currently has a 60% approval for his plans overall so far . It’s a number Trump never hit within 10 points of. But again this riot is the bottom line . How will Americans respond to the party of insurrection. Our memories are short but they weren’t post 911 and I don’t think they will be now .

You are correct about the transfer of wealth. In the last 40 years the middle class has been hollowed out and wages have only increased about 12% according to most of the articles I've read. In the mean time the super rich have seen their income
rise in the range of 900%. Prior to Reagan and Stockman's Trickle Down theory that was implemented, the share of the economy was approximately 50-50. Some years 45-55, but close to equal, but now it's in the range of 90-10.

The pocketbook issue I'm thinking of is tax reform where instead of around 1000 people sharing about 75% of the Trillion $ tax break and the remaining $250 Billion shared by the 250 million working class, turn it upside down so the 250 million
working class get the $750 Billion and the monied elite share $250 Billion. It would box the Republicans into a corner and maybe dispel the narrative that the Dems don't care about the little guy that the R's have successfully convinced people of.

[Hawktawk]

Trump and Guliani have been sued in civil court by a black southern congressman trapped in the riot and a separate suit by the NAACP. McConnel had suggested it might be the appropriate route in his withering speech. Looks like it’s happening . The senate may be full of ass kissing sheep but as the election challenges showed real courts don’t give a rip who you were . This could be the complete undoing of Trump with likely hundreds of claims from this riot. Fulton county Georgia is proceeding with its investigation and so is SDNY.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/dominion- ... aud-claims

And now my pillow guy gets sued by Dominion What an idiot. I hope they break him. put him on the street.

[RiverDog]

Trump is going to be in the headlines for the next 4 years, if not longer. It's like mother's milk to his movement. That's my fear, that we keep him relevant.

[Hawktawk]

Trump is going to be in the headlines for the next 4 years, if not longer. It's like mother's milk to his movement. That's my fear, that we keep him relevant.

Prosecuting his crimes is relevant . If it keeps him
In the news so much the better. It means there are more charges . It may make him a martyr to his cult but 40% is a loser forever and the longer the party clings to him and the base promotes his candidates the worse it will be . More republicans in some swing states have left the party than Biden’s margin in November . It’s not about policy anymore