The (2nd) Impeachment of Donald Trump

[Aseahawkfan]

At this point, I don't think that Trump is coming back. He's starting his own party, and it will be a disaster, guarantee the Dems of the Presidency in 2024 as it will split the conservative vote.

I've been going back and forth between impeaching/convicting him or not. If they can't get him, it's going to do more harm than good, and at this point, they aren't getting him.

Until he starts his own party, that is speculation. This clown could come back.

I hope he doesn't, but it could happen. Republican core needs to be ready to stop this.

[RiverDog]

At this point, I don't think that Trump is coming back. He's starting his own party, and it will be a disaster, guarantee the Dems of the Presidency in 2024 as it will split the conservative vote.

I've been going back and forth between impeaching/convicting him or not. If they can't get him, it's going to do more harm than good, and at this point, they aren't getting him.

Until he starts his own party, that is speculation. This clown could come back.

I hope he doesn't, but it could happen. Republican core needs to be ready to stop this.

There is a new party forming calling themselves the Patriot Party. Yesterday Trump has distanced himself from it but the man changes his mind like we change our underwear, so who knows. In any event, Trump joining or forming a new party is a little more than speculation.

The Republicans need a new leader to come forward, someone that can appeal to the Trump supporters while not being objectionable to the never Trump Republicans like a Hawley or Cruz might.

[NorthHawk]

The Democrats are hoping for a new party on the right. If they can keep their voters, they might be in power for a long time.
That would mean keeping those on the far left of the Democratic party from splitting as well.

[RiverDog]

The Democrats are hoping for a new party on the right. If they can keep their voters, they might be in power for a long time.
That would mean keeping those on the far left of the Democratic party from splitting as well.

A party that draws ultra conservatives to the right might have the effect of driving the Republican party to the left in an effort to pick up independents and moderate Democrats. Plus we don't know what the Democrats are going to do over the next two years. Actions like Biden's EO halting construction on the Keystone pipeline isn't going to sit well with a lot of moderates in key swing states in the rust belt and could drive moderate Dems to the R's.

Biden won the election in part because he framed himself as a moderate. If he governs like a liberal, it could cause the Dems trouble in 2022.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't give a crap about the other stuff. We don't need 4 more years of crazy. I hope enough Republicans have power to keep Trump off the Republican ticket in 2024. With no impeachment, he could run again and just take the ticket like he did last time. If no coronavirus, he'll be able to work his rallies again. The whole lack of social media will fuel him and his supporters crazy at being victims of the left.

If he is allowed to go for it again in 2024, it may turn out worse than last time.

[RiverDog]

I don't give a crap about the other stuff. We don't need 4 more years of crazy. I hope enough Republicans have power to keep Trump off the Republican ticket in 2024. With no impeachment, he could run again and just take the ticket like he did last time. If no coronavirus, he'll be able to work his rallies again. The whole lack of social media will fuel him and his supporters crazy at being victims of the left.

If he is allowed to go for it again in 2024, it may turn out worse than last time.

I agree, the biggest concern is Trump winning back the Presidency in 2024. I see where McConnell has decided that impeaching a former office holder is unconstitutional. The odds of getting Trump convicted keep getting worse and worse.

We'll see how Biden does. I like most of the things he's been doing to fight the pandemic, although I'm not too thrilled with the extra $1400 stimulus payments unless they were to tie it to getting a COVID vaccination as some have suggested. It's a breath of fresh air compared to the way Trump was handling the crisis.

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree, the biggest concern is Trump winning back the Presidency in 2024. I see where McConnell has decided that impeaching a former office holder is unconstitutional. The odds of getting Trump convicted keep getting worse and worse.

We'll see how Biden does. I like most of the things he's been doing to fight the pandemic, although I'm not too thrilled with the extra $1400 stimulus payments unless they were to tie it to getting a COVID vaccination as some have suggested. It's a breath of fresh air compared to the way Trump was handling the crisis.

I haven't been keeping track of much. Seems like the usual Democratic agenda at the moment. Not sure how well it will go over with the moderate voters tired of the race baiting and climate Armageddon agenda of the Democrats. But the Electric Vehicle market is on fire with nearly every electric vehicle company or even loosely associated alternate energy company getting a boost from the Democratic Agenda.

Hopefully the pandemic will get cleaned up as more vaccinations get rolled out.

[RiverDog]

I haven't been keeping track of much. Seems like the usual Democratic agenda at the moment. Not sure how well it will go over with the moderate voters tired of the race baiting and climate Armageddon agenda of the Democrats. But the Electric Vehicle market is on fire with nearly every electric vehicle company or even loosely associated alternate energy company getting a boost from the Democratic Agenda.

Hopefully the pandemic will get cleaned up as more vaccinations get rolled out.

For starters, he stopped construction on the Keystone pipeline and has put an undetermined number of people out of work at the worst possible time. That's not going to play well with moderate voters, particularly those in swing states like PA and MI.

The conversion from the internal combustion engine and electric vehicles is going to take a great deal of time, and it's going to introduce some unintended consequences in the form of privacy concerns. State and federal governments are going to have to figure out how they're going to charge electric vehicles for using public streets and highways as the primary source of revenue, gas taxes, will no longer apply to them. They're probably going to have to use some sort of gps based miles traveled formula, toll roads, etc, and that causes fears amongst a lot of people about giving the government even more ability to track your activities. Big brother is watching.

[c_hawkbob]

In 20 years you're going to have a hell of a time trying to buy and ICE vehicle anyway, with or without legislation. All those 'yeahbuts' you listed don't amount to much in the face of the changing market.

[RiverDog]

In 20 years you're going to have a hell of a time trying to buy and ICE vehicle anyway, with or without legislation. All those 'yeahbuts' you listed don't amount to much in the face of the changing market.

20 years? Are you basing that on something other than your personal opinion?

[NorthHawk]

People have for the most part already given up their right to privacy voluntarily so big gov't is already watching everyone with a cell phone.
I would have thought that govt's in both Europe and America would have embraced Hydrogen a lot more. It's clean and still requires the building of
engines which would keep jobs in place. There was a start of a Hydrogen Network of filling stations but it seems to have withered on the vine.
Toyota is still pushing forward with H research and development and offers a vehicle and there are some H stations from BC to California, but no where
near the number of Electric charging stations.

[c_hawkbob]

In 20 years you're going to have a hell of a time trying to buy and ICE vehicle anyway, with or without legislation. All those 'yeahbuts' you listed don't amount to much in the face of the changing market.

20 years? Are you basing that on something other than your personal opinion?

Mostly magazine articles in electrical industry magazines I keep in the bathroom here at the plant. There are a lot of articles on industry build up expected for EVs and the consensus seems to be that we'll be more than 50% EV by 2040 and over 90% by 2050. Toyota for example expects to have fully half of their lineup be electric by 2025: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyo ... SKCN1T806X and Nissan expects all of it's vehicle to be electrified by the early 30's: https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2021 ... und%202025. While while the big 3 are lagging a bit behind (but ramping up) they will simply have to respond to the market changes by then.

I'm also reading a lot of articles on battery technology advancements, which is currently the biggest hindrance to repowering old vehicles with electricity and i certainly expect a lot of movement not yet taken into account when there is a substantial breakthrough in that regard.

Yes it's my opinion but I stand by it. All these changes are coming as I said with or without legislation.

[NorthHawk]

Just look how far battery technology has come in just the last 10 years. With all of the resources that are put towards improving charging times and capacity, I'd be
surprised if the range/recharge matrix becomes quicker than (or at least nearly the same as) refilling your tank. The problem with batteries is the up front pollution that
mining the elements produces. Nickel mines are notorious for their mess and with China trying to corner the market on Rare Earth Elements, it could drive the costs
up more than necessary. Cobalt is another product used in most batteries for cars and there are stories of child labor being used to mine and bring to market. But having
said that, there are new discoveries all the time using other materials that may not be so damaging to the environment or so rare. There are some interesting times ahead.

[RiverDog]

Yes it's my opinion but I stand by it. All these changes are coming as I said with or without legislation.

There was no legislation involved in the Keystone pipeline shutdown. It was done by executive order.

My point is that this is a really bad time to be making decisions that affects employment conditions. Completing the Keystone pipeline isn't going to undermine the development of electric vehicles.

Oh, and thanks for the links. I'll check them out.

[NorthHawk]

Their thinking is they can replace the jobs in the pipeline building by creating jobs in the clean energy field, I'm assuming by economic incentives.
Nobody in their right mind would think the oil industry would be shut down during Biden's term or even in the next 40 years, but a turn toward
clean energy is inevitable over the long term so why not encourage it and take advantage of creating new jobs as this change takes place?
On a bit of a side note, the major oil companies are moving into the clean energy field and some in a big way so it's not just a flash in the pan.

[RiverDog]

Their thinking is they can replace the jobs in the pipeline building by creating jobs in the clean energy field, I'm assuming by economic incentives.

Nobody in their right mind would think the oil industry would be shut down during Biden's term or even in the next 40 years, but a turn toward
clean energy is inevitable over the long term so why not encourage it and take advantage of creating new jobs as this change takes place?
On a bit of a side note, the major oil companies are moving into the clean energy field and some in a big way so it's not just a flash in the pan.

That might be true, but now is a really bad time to be shutting down major projects that many people are depending on to sustain their lives.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'll cover this in one post:

1. Keystone Pipeline may not be an area where alternative energy products will sell well, so not sure you can easily shift those jobs. Though the solar and alternate energy business is booming.

2. Hydrogen doesn't have the infrastructure of electric vehicles at the moment. It is way behind mostly due to Tesla, which has pushed the electric vehicle and made it more viable and scalable than hydrogen cars. In essence, Musk has proven his business concept and has first mover advantage, so he is pushing the market right now to catch up with him.

3. And Tesla's are amazing cars. I usually keep my car for 20 years. I'm 5 years in. I hope to buy a nice electric car in 2030 or so and enjoy the clean air from lack of exhaust. I was smelling the exhaust from cars a few days ago on a calm day with the air filled with some stinking exhaust vehicle. I imagine the day when the road is filled with quiet, electric vehicles that leave no exhaust and make very little noise. It is going to be awesome.

4. Clean energy keeps improving. There is massive investment in this shifting industry. It will have huge demand for employment as it grows. One of my buddy has a well-paid solar panel installment job. He's making good money. Generally requires basic labor skills and if you want to advance, some electrical skills.

5. I've been encouraging my friend in aviation to move into electric vehicle design and production work. That is the future. There are a ton of companies trying to get this electric vehicle market growing. I think in 20 years you will have a harder time buying an ICE vehicle. Electric vehicles offer way too many advantages beyond clean energy.

Some advantages:
A. Faster, quieter, quicker acceleration.

B. Heavily computerized, cuts down on accidents, with auto-driving mode.

C. No bad air.

D. Fairly low maintenance costs from what I understand due to fewer moving parts.

E. Cheaper to charge.

Cons:
A. Charging can take a while and isn't as convenient for quick stops.

B. Manufacturing scaling due to battery technology is not quite there for prices as low as ICE vehicles. Tesla is quickly working on that problem and scaling manufacturing.

C. Government will have to figure out how to pay for roads filled with electric vehicles. Maybe tax on charging once there are more charging stations. Maybe tax on moving. I would think some kind of charging meter for vehicles attached to the charger might be best for charging stations and home charging.

EV technology is moving fast in all developed nations and China worldwide. It should be a major shift in jobs that will hit places like Detroit hard. Tesla is using a lot of robots to build its vehicles, so not sure how many people are needed compared to building ICE vehicles.

Then again robot manufacturing is coming as well. That will require new jobs and a lot of people. Humans are going to become more and more reliant on robots. Best to keep an eye on that tech and invest in it as it explodes.

One technology that sounds super interesting is carbon capture technology. https://news.mit.edu/2019/mit-engineers-develop-new-way-remove-carbon-dioxide-air-1025 From what I understand they are trying to build carbon capture factories which take carbon out of the air and turn it into fuel. This might extend the usefulness of carbon energy sources. There are some smart people out there doing amazing things. The free market let's you invest in their ideas. Gotta love it.

[Aseahawkfan]

Mostly magazine articles in electrical industry magazines I keep in the bathroom here at the plant. There are a lot of articles on industry build up expected for EVs and the consensus seems to be that we'll be more than 50% EV by 2040 and over 90% by 2050. Toyota for example expects to have fully half of their lineup be electric by 2025: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-toyo ... SKCN1T806X and Nissan expects all of it's vehicle to be electrified by the early 30's: https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2021 ... und%202025. While while the big 3 are lagging a bit behind (but ramping up) they will simply have to respond to the market changes by then.

I'm also reading a lot of articles on battery technology advancements, which is currently the biggest hindrance to repowering old vehicles with electricity and i certainly expect a lot of movement not yet taken into account when there is a substantial breakthrough in that regard.

Yes it's my opinion but I stand by it. All these changes are coming as I said with or without legislation.

Did you read on Quantumscape's solid state battery technology? https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/12/08/1013357/quantumscape-vw-litihium-metal-battery/

If this is true, you may want to invest a speculative sum into this battery company. I wouldn't go too heavy because it's valuation is high and others may come up with similar tech before QS is able to dominate the market as Tesla and most big battery companies are working on similar projects. But if these guys are first to market, it will be a serious advantage.

GM just committed to all electric cars by 2035.

[Hawktawk]

Well it’s clear the Republican Party has done an about face on their indignation at damn near getting hurt or killed 3 weeks ago . Now it’s an unconstitutional distraction to hold accountable a man Moscow Mitch McConnel said “ provoked a mob” 2 weeks ago. They are continuing to reward Marjory Taylor Greene the QAanon cultist on tape suggesting murdering Democrats . People like Kevin McCarthy are going to Mara Lago to kiss the ring of a vile despicable evil madman. Of course the dems are coming in the door hard trying to slam the brakes on everything Trump did . Time will tell how it will play out with voters but when it’s really in most respects returning to the Obama doctrine I rather doubt it will be unpalatable enough that this current rendition of the Trump/ QAanon party will win nationally again . I’ve heard pence and Adam Kinsinger are trying to start pacs to restore the party . I’d love trump to split off . He would destroy the party forever .

[Aseahawkfan]

Well it’s clear the Republican Party has done an about face on their indignation at damn near getting hurt or killed 3 weeks ago . Now it’s an unconstitutional distraction to hold accountable a man Moscow Mitch McConnel said “ provoked a mob” 2 weeks ago. They are continuing to reward Marjory Taylor Greene the QAanon cultist on tape suggesting murdering Democrats . People like Kevin McCarthy are going to Mara Lago to kiss the ring of a vile despicable evil madman. Of course the dems are coming in the door hard trying to slam the brakes on everything Trump did . Time will tell how it will play out with voters but when it’s really in most respects returning to the Obama doctrine I rather doubt it will be unpalatable enough that this current rendition of the Trump/ QAanon party will win nationally again . I’ve heard pence and Adam Kinsinger are trying to start pacs to restore the party . I’d love trump to split off . He would destroy the party forever .

Like Ross Perot destroyed the party forever?

Republican Party been around 150 plus years. It isn't going anywhere.

Just like the Democratic Party isn't going anywhere.

They'll just keep fighting long after you and I and everyone on this forum is dead. And long after Trump and his clowns are dead.

[Hawktawk]

I hope you’re right but something is different this time . Active cult members who believe in made up stories are part of this 3/4th of Republican voters . Perhaps it’s openly socialist members on the left that will bring all those republicans back who did not buy stop the steal and the ensuing riot . Georgia runnoffs showed the deep damage done in just the 6 weeks of Trumps unamerican sedition. We will know soon enough with elections only 21 months away . If Biden delivers on Covid which is still a big if it’s such a disorganized mess but if so I think the republicans are in trouble in 22, especially with the looming trial where they will be forced to explain their votes publicly and square them with their comments in real time, especially McConnel . Whatever happens I’ll have nothing to do with the party as long as Trump has any influence whatsoever and I’m sure I’m not alone .

[RiverDog]

I hope you’re right but something is different this time . Active cult members who believe in made up stories are part of this 3/4th of Republican voters . Perhaps it’s openly socialist members on the left that will bring all those republicans back who did not buy stop the steal and the ensuing riot . Georgia runnoffs showed the deep damage done in just the 6 weeks of Trumps unamerican sedition. We will know soon enough with elections only 21 months away . If Biden delivers on Covid which is still a big if it’s such a disorganized mess but if so I think the republicans are in trouble in 22, especially with the looming trial where they will be forced to explain their votes publicly and square them with their comments in real time, especially McConnel . Whatever happens I’ll have nothing to do with the party as long as Trump has any influence whatsoever and I’m sure I’m not alone .

Although I agree that the R's need a timeout, I fear the day that we become a one party political system.

We'll see how things go once the pandemic is over and things get back to normal. I'm convinced that a good part of the reason why we've seen such whacko behavior is the effect the shutdown has had on the public. Republicans/conservatives are by nature more suspicious of government and less trusting of science and are more likely to be influenced by all these whacky conspiracy theories.

[Hawktawk]

I hate to say it but it’s more like “if” we get back to normal . Just today a mass vaccination site in LA was shut down for 2 hours by a far right anti vax Covid denier protest . Of course no arrests made as cops clearly favor white right wing protesters . Point is these people formed QAanon which is just a lunatic fringe cult long before this pandemic they call the scamdemic or the plandemic came along . It’s part of the vast conspiracy worldwide to remove their messiah . I think the best we can hope for is some sort of a new normal . I will say if an anti vax protester blocks me assuming I ever get one with this cluster of a mess distributing shots their death certificate will read “ Covid related” I’ve fing had it with these freaks . Everyone is entitled to their opinion but not their alternative reality set of “facts “ . A party that will embrace and protect these people deserves the ash heap of history . I root for Pence and Kinsinger to come up with a rational alternative along with guys like Romney I am sure but they are hated as bad as pelosi for daring cross Trump . This party isn’t going to unite anytime soon .

[RiverDog]

I hate to say it but it’s more like “if” we get back to normal . Just today a mass vaccination site in LA was shut down for 2 hours by a far right anti vax Covid denier protest . Of course no arrests made as cops clearly favor white right wing protesters . Point is these people formed QAanon which is just a lunatic fringe cult long before this pandemic they call the scamdemic or the plandemic came along . It’s part of the vast conspiracy worldwide to remove their messiah . I think the best we can hope for is some sort of a new normal . I will say if an anti vax protester blocks me assuming I ever get one with this cluster of a mess distributing shots their death certificate will read “ Covid related” I’ve fing had it with these freaks . Everyone is entitled to their opinion but not their alternative reality set of “facts “ . A party that will embrace and protect these people deserves the ash heap of history . I root for Pence and Kinsinger to come up with a rational alternative along with guys like Romney I am sure but they are hated as bad as pelosi for daring cross Trump . This party isn’t going to unite anytime soon .

Yeah, I guess we'll see. All I know is that this pandemic has caused a major psychological imbalance in a lot of people and has provided the fodder for these whacky conspiracies to arise.

[c_hawkbob]

There will be no "back to normal" because the condition we all imagine as "normal" is gone. The best we can expect is a new normal, one where the batsh!t crazy conspiracy theories reasonable people used to laugh at or ignore altogether are something we have to contend with daily.

[RiverDog]

There will be no "back to normal" because the condition we all imagine as "normal" is gone. The best we can expect is a new normal, one where the batsh!t crazy conspiracy theories reasonable people used to laugh at or ignore altogether are something we have to contend with daily.

We can thank social media. It used to be that people that were subject to that kind of thinking were distanced from each other, but with social media, they can gather in one place, snowball their ideas, and spread them to others. And the problem with regulating social media is that we start bumping up against the 1st Amendment.

[NorthHawk]

I think the best that can be hoped for is for the Republican party to split along idealized lines and then in the following few years push the bat scat crazies to the edge of their own party and the
R's become a legitimate contender. It might be ugly for them for a while, but it would be best in the long run.

[Hawktawk]

It’s gonna happen . People like Romney and Sasse and Collins and murkowski and maybe others are not going down this rat hole ever . Registered republicans are leaving the party in droves . As polls show 25 % of the party trusts the election results will they go down the rabbit hole of a party with QAanon believers in the us congress ? I think not . This broad Marjorie Greene Taylor already nicknamed MGT is the best gift Democrats ever had . This one imbecilic cretin fatally blond moron balances out the entire squad most notably AOC . AOC believes in socialism , a system of governance accepted around the world but not popular in America . MGT believes Democrats drink the blood of children , that bin laden is alive , that 911 is a hoax and that Jewish space lasers caused the California wildfires . As Gabriel Sterling , one of the republican Georgia election officials said “ it’s far worse than AOC. She’s a socialist which is bad but she’s sane. This Taylor it was easy to see there’s bats in the Belfrey. I’m not sure how far down the rabbit hole we should go .”

Indeed . This is not going to clean itself up anytime soon .

[Aseahawkfan]

We will see. I think a lot will change when the lockdowns are lifted. There has been a plethora of documented evidence that cabin fever is a very real thing and that when you lock people down like this disrupting their normal life and making their only means of social interaction television, the internet, and phones, people will go crazy. It's not just documented from our time, but also from history with lots of little phrases about keeping people busy keeps them sane. Right now, people are stuck in circumstances that are fertile ground for crazy.

Until these circumstances change, it's impossible to know how the future will move. I know right now the world seems to be closing in and the government has given absolutely no end in sight for lockdowns and this environment. Humans do not at all do well in an endless state of fear and isolation. We have piles of scientific proof that this environment is unsustainable for humans. They will go insane and completely rebel at some point.

We'll see how things go once the world is allowed to move again. Then we'll know what degree of crazy will continue. Right now, I wouldn't count on predictions much until this lockdown state ends. Then we'll see how much has really changed.

I know amongst the group I know, much of this is driven by the lockdown. Most of my buddies used to be very active. Visited family, went out all the time, played sports, worked a lot of overtime, shopped, and were too busy to get this caught up on politics. But ever since this lockdown they gone nutty. Started believing the Democrats were going to use this lockdown to maintain control over their lives forever. This lockdown state was going to be the new normal that Democrats did anytime they wanted to exert control over everyone. They would use the cover of the pandemic to institute socialism. Total crazy talk that they didn't even think about before this happened.

So first let's hope this pandemic ends soon. Then we'll get a better idea of the level of crazy that remains.

[Hawktawk]

I hope so . Everyone is sick of this . I’ve had it with inslee and his wonky pocket protector approach that he moves the goalposts to benefi and appease his base in the puget sound while ignoring eastern Washington . His latest stunt lost me . Let our Resturant’s and bars open .

[RiverDog]

We will see. I think a lot will change when the lockdowns are lifted. There has been a plethora of documented evidence that cabin fever is a very real thing and that when you lock people down like this disrupting their normal life and making their only means of social interaction television, the internet, and phones, people will go crazy. It's not just documented from our time, but also from history with lots of little phrases about keeping people busy keeps them sane. Right now, people are stuck in circumstances that are fertile ground for crazy.

So first let's hope this pandemic ends soon. Then we'll get a better idea of the level of crazy that remains.

I agree. It's hard to overstate the effect the pandemic and associated shut downs have had on people. Plus voters have a notoriously short memory. The Democrats are bound to push their advantage to the point that it pisses off a large percentage of conservative voters, whether the issue be immigration reform, college loan forgiveness, reparations, socialized medicine, or the green new deal, not to mention that the economy is due for a downturn.

At least we don't have Trump to worry about for the next 4 years. Now that an acquittal in the impeachment trial is a foregone conclusion, let's get it over with quickly so we can move Trump to Page 2.

[Hawktawk]

I agree. It's hard to overstate the effect the pandemic and associated shut downs have had on people. Plus voters have a notoriously short memory. The Democrats are bound to push their advantage to the point that it pisses off a large percentage of conservative voters, whether the issue be immigration reform, college loan forgiveness, reparations, socialized medicine, or the green new deal, not to mention that the economy is due for a downturn.

At least we don't have Trump to worry about for the next 4 years. Now that an acquittal in the impeachment trial is a foregone conclusion, let's get it over with quickly so we can move Trump to Page 2.

A few things have become apparent to me. #1 this pandemic wont "end" anytime soon unless it's like that spanish flu and just disappears. Most experts believe it will be around in some form indefinitely requiring annual vaccinations . And with the scary mutations the world is brewing uop due to the sheer number of infections all sorts of concerning scenarios are out there including another surge combining super bowl infections and these more infectious strains to create another surge on top of declining but still high case numbers. Vaccination is still a joke although improving. As with anything I hope it is indeed over and the sooner the better. just sayin the outlook isn't great near term.

As for the Trump acquittal being foregone It's surely most likely but let's see. I saw R sen Bill Cassidy who was one of 43 votes favoring a resolution stating the trial was unconstitutional tell Chuck Todd today he still has an open mind on the facts that will be presented at trial , explaining the vote was procedural, they were given 2 hours to vote and had no evidence presented in support of the Dems position. I see where R Sasse who had been censured in their states is refusing to give an inch, saying to his voters that the R party has never been about a " weird loyalty to one dude". Pence is launching a podcast to remind voters of the good things about the party. Kinsinger has started a Pac. Lincoln project will never go away nor will Romney. These Senators will all have to go on the record with their position on punishing a president who incited an insurrection, really set it up for 6 months at least before election day. It will all come out including the calls to state election officials , the reports trump knew a week after the election he had no legal path and basically told his team find a path legal or otherwise. And unlike the previous impeachment polls show a large majority of americans believe trump bears at least some responsibility for the riot and a majority believes he should be removed from office. Many of these R senators will face voters in 2 years, in the primaries if they cross Trump and an increasingly left center group of voters who are revulsed much more by the Marjorie Greene Taylors on the right than a return to Obama doctrine ifr they support the Trump?Qaanon wing . The party has a problem.

[RiverDog]

I agree. It's hard to overstate the effect the pandemic and associated shut downs have had on people. Plus voters have a notoriously short memory. The Democrats are bound to push their advantage to the point that it pisses off a large percentage of conservative voters, whether the issue be immigration reform, college loan forgiveness, reparations, socialized medicine, or the green new deal, not to mention that the economy is due for a downturn.

At least we don't have Trump to worry about for the next 4 years. Now that an acquittal in the impeachment trial is a foregone conclusion, let's get it over with quickly so we can move Trump to Page 2.

A few things have become apparent to me. #1 this pandemic wont "end" anytime soon unless it's like that spanish flu and just disappears. Most experts believe it will be around in some form indefinitely requiring annual vaccinations . And with the scary mutations the world is brewing uop due to the sheer number of infections all sorts of concerning scenarios are out there including another surge combining super bowl infections and these more infectious strains to create another surge on top of declining but still high case numbers. Vaccination is still a joke although improving. As with anything I hope it is indeed over and the sooner the better. just sayin the outlook isn't great near term.

Covid almost certainly will still be around for years if not decades, but not at pandemic proportions like it has been for the past year. I'm not sure what you consider 'short term', but I believe that we do have a chance of ending the pandemic and getting back to somewhat normal by this fall. The infection rate will drop in the summer even with vaccines taken out of the equation when people move outdoors and the virus becomes less transmissible. We have to keep in mind that those that have been infected and recovered have antibodies that will give them some degree of protection from reinfection. There's been 27 million confirmed cases in the US, a number that is almost certainly way lower than actual. Plus in addition to vaccines, there's more treatments that are becoming available. It's going to be a lot more manageable even if we don't achieve complete herd immunity.

What they have to do is start getting the vaccines out to the poorer countries and help them with their efforts. We tend to lose sight that this is a global epidemic and won't end until we stop the spread everywhere.

[Hawktawk]

Not sure how many had the opportunity or desire to watch this trial. The new footage is so disturbing as is the timeline of trump's tweets and inaction. It's been determined that Trump was aware following a phone call to Tommy Tuberville pressuring him to slow down the count that Pence was in danger and they were being evacuated.

10 minutes later!!!! the POTUS tweeted that Mike Pence had "lacked the courage" to defend democracy etc etc etc . The exact text of this tweet was shouted out to the rioters via bullhorn verbatim moments later at which the hang mike pence chants began. 138 police officers injured, many with TBIs one dead and 2 suicides. Encouraged, egged on and enjoyed by the president of the united states. No action to stop it for at least 2 hours after the declaration of a riot at the capitol.Instead watching on TV in amusement and further enraging the mob towards his biggest lap dog supporter of all, Pence

Frankly trump should face a firing squad if this nation was worth a damn anymore. As it is the senators, many of whom carried on with their steal the election charade even after the attack will not vote in sufficient numbers to convict this president. A few will, possibly as many as 6 or more which just demonstrates the crack up of the party. Nikki Haley staked her political fortunes on being on the right side of history today, condemning Trump and saying he should have no role in the republican party. Its significant so many 24 candidates are breaking hard one way or another. I know far too many in the republican party are soulless amoral political bottom feeders who are blinded by a cult still. There are rumblings the never trumpers may try to form a center right party which i would applaud. Then maybe conservatives would understand if you support a whacko fascist you might never win another election.

[c_hawkbob]

I've been watching, (not today, at work today) and I'm as outraged as you are and utterly flabbergasted that the Republicans are not going to grow a pair and rid themselves of this criminal. The are no longer that party of Lincoln at all but are purely the party of Trump now. I wish nothing but the worst for them going foreword.

[RiverDog]

Not sure how many had the opportunity or desire to watch this trial. The new footage is so disturbing as is the timeline of trump's tweets and inaction. It's been determined that Trump was aware following a phone call to Tommy Tuberville pressuring him to slow down the count that Pence was in danger and they were being evacuated.

10 minutes later!!!! the POTUS tweeted that Mike Pence had "lacked the courage" to defend democracy etc etc etc . The exact text of this tweet was shouted out to the rioters via bullhorn verbatim moments later at which the hang mike pence chants began. 138 police officers injured, many with TBIs one dead and 2 suicides. Encouraged, egged on and enjoyed by the president of the united states. No action to stop it for at least 2 hours after the declaration of a riot at the capitol.Instead watching on TV in amusement and further enraging the mob towards his biggest lap dog supporter of all, Pence

Frankly trump should face a firing squad if this nation was worth a damn anymore. As it is the senators, many of whom carried on with their steal the election charade even after the attack will not vote in sufficient numbers to convict this president. A few will, possibly as many as 6 or more which just demonstrates the crack up of the party. Nikki Haley staked her political fortunes on being on the right side of history today, condemning Trump and saying he should have no role in the republican party. Its significant so many 24 candidates are breaking hard one way or another. I know far too many in the republican party are soulless amoral political bottom feeders who are blinded by a cult still. There are rumblings the never trumpers may try to form a center right party which i would applaud. Then maybe conservatives would understand if you support a whacko fascist you might never win another election.

I watched a fair amount of the trial, and while I think that technically one could say that he did mention once that the crowd should "peacefully" march to the Capitol, there was far too much violent rhetoric to offset it and drown it out. The most damming thing in my mind was Trump's refusal to call out the National Guard or do anything to stop it when he saw how far out of hand it had gotten, especially when he knew that lives were in danger. Plus he did nothing to admit to any kind responsibility whatsoever, to the contrary, he doesn't see anything wrong with his words or his behavior. He needs to be held accountable, even if all that happens is that he goes down in history as the only POTUS that was impeached twice.

I can understand the argument that he's already out of office and that the best interests of the country might be to let this pass and start the healing process, but IMO there needs to be some sort of historical marker laid down to somewhat offset the damage that was done to our country's reputation during the riot on the Capitol.

[Aseahawkfan]

I wish they would impeach, but regardless at 78 I doubt he runs again. Trump is hopefully all done. We don't need that crazy in the White House any longer.

People still seem ready to go to the mat for this guy. Conservatives I know still hate the Dems and feel they are trying to destroy and oppress Americans for disagreeing with the Democrats and their supporters.

It doesn't seem too many are interested in sensible politics. They' would rather have incendiary, divisive, and insane politics.

[RiverDog]

I wish they would impeach, but regardless at 78 I doubt he runs again. Trump is hopefully all done. We don't need that crazy in the White House any longer.

People still seem ready to go to the mat for this guy. Conservatives I know still hate the Dems and feel they are trying to destroy and oppress Americans for disagreeing with the Democrats and their supporters.

It doesn't seem too many are interested in sensible politics. They' would rather have incendiary, divisive, and insane politics.

A lot can happen in 4 years. Voters have notoriously short memories. We'll see how Trumpism fares in the next midterm election but even then, it's success or failure in 2022 may not be indicative of how well it survives beyond.

I'm also still of the belief that the pandemic is the root cause of all this nonsensical behavior. We'll see how the world of politics looks like after things get back to somewhat of a normal. Hopefully this is an aberration and not a new normal.

[NorthHawk]

I think there is a good chance it will be around in 2 years. If the R's are successful with it in the mid terms, then it could make for an interesting race in 4 years. If they lose a lot of support then it will probably die out quickly, but it will remain
as background noise and maybe in some cases the determining factor in selecting candidates. Biden is 78 and won, so Trump being the egotist he is won't think age is an impediment as he thinks he's superior to everyone anyway. If he drags any
court cases out for 4 years, he might try to run again so as to avoid prosecution for a term in office if he's successful. It's weird times we live in.

[Aseahawkfan]

So Trump can run again. Man, the hate fueled politics is getting old.