c_hawkbob wrote:I agree with North. We have seriously got to quit measuring the health of the economy by how the rich are doing. The markets are at most maybe a third of the equation. It's like measuring employment by how many people have jobs when at the bottom of the scale people are working 2 or 3 jobs to maintain one functional wage and still not getting any benefits. These measurements are illusions intended to keep us feeling good enough about the status quo that they can keep migrating all the wealth of the country to the top.
c_hawkbob wrote:Strong middle class, union memberships, inner city employment statistics including benefits, small business viability, overall wealth distribution. Not saying these things only, but they deserve much more attention than just the markets and GDP.
I-5 wrote:By that logic, you should be in favor of Biden’s Covid relief plan...getting the money out of the gov’t’s hands and into average americans’ hands, especially households with less than $150k annual income. Right?
RiverDog wrote:The economy is fine. GDP rose by over 4% and unemployment dropped sharply last quarter, so the economy doesn't need the stimulus, at least not now.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets ... uxbndlbing
My wife and I are both retired. Filing jointly our AGI was around $75K. We're empty nesters, our house is paid off, and we have no other debts, so we live quite well on that income. We also have a hefty amount saved up in our IRA's, of which only our taxable withdrawals count against the stimulus. The government giving us another $2800 isn't going to cause us to spend anymore money than we otherwise would have. I don't know how typical our situation is, but it's a complete waste of taxpayer money to give us a stimulus.
I understand that there are people out there that are still suffering due to the pandemic and I am not opposed to giving them some assistance. But the economy doesn't need it and at least from my point of view, it is very poorly targeted. I was for the first stimulus last spring as the country was in much worse shape, both in terms of the economy and unemployment, and I could understand pushing through a poorly targeted stimulus as crafting the perfect piece of legislation would have taken many months and there were people out there suffering, so it's understandable that some undeserving people received a payment. But the situation is much different now than it was in the 2nd quarter of 2020.
On a side note, I've always been of the mind that tax cuts to the middle class would be more effective than corporate tax cuts. I wish they would try it for once. Cut middle classes taxes by about 3% across the board and boost taxes on wealth and business by about 3%, see what happens. The middle class drives consumption the most in the GDP equation. Putting more money in middle class hands will hugely boost the economy in my opinion.
c_hawkbob wrote:Oh my, looks as though I've struck a nerve!
First, by all means you're excused. Second, I believe you know as well as I do that "my" criteria are a bit more difficult to gather, and even measure in the short term, than that. It's not like following the daily stock report for inner city jobs with benefits. There's nothing to bet on in those kinds of statistics. And third, relax, I didn't mean to personally insult you.
c_hawkbob wrote:I didn't 'object' to a single thing. Nothing I said was pointed in any way at you or what you had written. I offered my opinion and you asked me to get more specific so I did, in my own words without reference or even specific mindfulness of anything you'd said. It may come as a surprise but I don't pore over every word you guys say when you're talking economics, most of it makes my eyes glaze over and roll up in the back of my head... I'd have to spend half my time googling "what did he just say?" to actually follow along, and you write volumes on it!
And stop asking a question I've told you (and you've agreed) cannot be answered. It's gonna take a lot longer than a couple months to repair this economy. It's been rigged to take from the middle and lower classes to enrich corporations since the 80's. Reversing Trump's trillion dollar tax cuts for the rich will be a good start, but it's gonna take more than that.
Aseahawkfan wrote:Sorry, both of these parties look crazy to me. I want something new soon. I'll never vote for these two parties as they are now. They are bad for America. They don't seem to have any idea of what American values are. The Democrats are more interested in turning us into Europe than being America. I don't want to be Europe. I would move there If I wanted America to be Europe.
And Trump is stupid, crazy, and vulgar. I want nothing more to do with the guy. He shouldn't be near the White House. He's a selfish, narcissistic idiot who is out of touch with reality to the point he himself believes the election was taken from him. No one who has had that type of psychotic break from reality should be president.
It's a bad time to be an American. I feel bad for this younger generation who has to grow up in this garbage time where mainly the technology is good, but the social environment is nutty.
Hawktawk wrote:I agree 100% with your take on the parties. But I said Biden Harris look normal "in comparison". Liberalism is a belief system of cradle to grave nanny state. let's say they care too much about people who nobody else cares about. Socialism is a political and economic system embraced in parts of the world including way more here than those who decry socialism want to admit. My point is these are political positions however extreme and the left would say the right has equally draconian policies favoring wealthy and balancing the books on the backs of the poor, ignoring the environment and the needs of the downtrodden. Hillary Im sure felt the same way.
The biggest difference is that Hillary after seeing Michigan called by 10 K votes she conceded graciously at 1 AM night of election. The former Cheeto of course started sowing the seeds of conspiracy months before the election and right up to a riot and even Jan 20 it was unsure he would leave. As you recall it was he and my pillow guy in the oval office talking about martial law. Then he goes to Cpac and tells the same lies about a stolen election.
Afterwards McConnell who said famously " a mob was fed lies by the president" And again" this isn't a particularly close election"(2 months late on that one) was asked if he would support Trump if he were the party's nominee in 24 and he smiled and said "of course". At least Bill Cassidy had the nuts to say "he wont be the nominee". Its incredible to me that anyone would want 4 more years of orange seditionist especially with the potentially bright stars in the mainstream of the party.
I hate both these parties Asea but there is a discernable difference between the parties right now in terms of the damage they can do to america in the ways that matter most. When 50 million dont trust the election strictly due to a lie from a cult figure we have a big problem.
Hawktawk wrote:I agree 100% with your take on the parties. But I said Biden Harris look normal "in comparison". Liberalism is a belief system of cradle to grave nanny state. let's say they care too much about people who nobody else cares about. Socialism is a political and economic system embraced in parts of the world including way more here than those who decry socialism want to admit. My point is these are political positions however extreme and the left would say the right has equally draconian policies favoring wealthy and balancing the books on the backs of the poor, ignoring the environment and the needs of the downtrodden. Hillary Im sure felt the same way.
The biggest difference is that Hillary after seeing Michigan called by 10 K votes she conceded graciously at 1 AM night of election. The former Cheeto of course started sowing the seeds of conspiracy months before the election and right up to a riot and even Jan 20 it was unsure he would leave. As you recall it was he and my pillow guy in the oval office talking about martial law. Then he goes to Cpac and tells the same lies about a stolen election.
Afterwards McConnell who said famously " a mob was fed lies by the president" And again" this isn't a particularly close election"(2 months late on that one) was asked if he would support Trump if he were the party's nominee in 24 and he smiled and said "of course". At least Bill Cassidy had the nuts to say "he wont be the nominee". Its incredible to me that anyone would want 4 more years of orange seditionist especially with the potentially bright stars in the mainstream of the party.
I hate both these parties Asea but there is a discernable difference between the parties right now in terms of the damage they can do to america in the ways that matter most. When 50 million dont trust the election strictly due to a lie from a cult figure we have a big problem.
Hawktawk wrote:I have a bit different response to those who attempt to justify Jan 6 with Antifa and BLM protests . Tucker Carlson had the gall to call QAanon supporters “ confused but they aren’t burning down Burger King”. The only similarity is rioting . One is protesting the oppression of blacks and the prescence of fascism . One could at least say they have a point although nobody including Biden or Harris support their methods . Stopping the counting of votes to elect the man who drubbed you by inciting a riot after 2.5 months of the most disgraceful political arson in history is in its own category . It wasn’t antifa
Aseahawkfan wrote:I don't even know who antifa are. Seems likes a name applied to a large group of people with varying interests who seem to cause trouble. They don't seem to have any central leadership or known organizational standards. Just seems like a name tossed out any time a left-leaning protest goes off the rails.
It's like white supremacy on the right. They pretty much attach it to any right wing group that causes trouble even if it has nothing to do with their goals and their members aren't involved in any type of racial supremacy.
I guess it is just an easy way to put groups in boxes and vilify them.
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests