Hawk Sista wrote:There was Russian influence in the 2016 election and there was additional foreign influence in 2020. There is no proof that it impacted the actual outcome & it’s a GIANT dose of false equivalence to say “both sides are guilty of claiming elections aren’t fair and it just needs to stop,” the Bush V. Gore example included. That was a couple hundred votes in ONE state in which the brother of one of the candidates happened to be Governor...and the guy with the short straw won the popular vote. It wasn’t tens of thousands of votes in each of several key states. That’s not just a big difference, it’s a startling comparison to make. Both Gore and HRC conceded. Neither are perfect and I have had my own less than favorable opinions about their handling of each situation, but to compare either to Trump’s beeline toward authoritarianism is bananas.
Trump, on the other hand, has escalated mistrust in voting to the point that I still fear a physical civil war of sorts; we are most certainly in a cognitive civil war now. His insistence in voter fraud gave way to a freakin’ failed coup attempt with dead bodies in the Capitol! It also likely aided in Georgia’s Senate seats going to the Dems fueling the Rs partisan pressure to over correct & produce Jim Crow like laws which are the very antithesis of what democracy is about. That any politician voted for that BS is an American disgrace.
I would like to think that everyone in the USA, irrespective of political affiliation, would be concerned about foreign influence, voter suppression, & gerrymandering to fix an outcome and/or make it harder for every American to vote.
I disagree. We'll likely never agree on this, so no point arguing. But it is very clear that If you are going to undermine the election process by putting information out there that the election is compromised without clear proof in what way and to what effect it is compromised whether claiming Russians were interfering or that an election was stolen by one party, then you are undermining elections with half of the electorate. If the other side does the same, but only better than you and to more of an extreme then don't be surprised when we get capital riots.
It is not false equivalency. That is rubbish. Undermining election is undermining elections. And the Russian interference was not proven to have a material effect on the outcome of either election and yet it was pushed as an agenda by one party to the tune of millions in investigation costs with no real effect. Just lots of wasted time and money and further undermining election confidence. And a new boogieman card the Democrats can pull out when they feel like it.
Until you Democratic voters admit your party is corrupt and engaged in similar behavior to undermine elections and confidence in the government, then nothing is going to change. You and the other Democrats can act as outraged as you want, but it doesn't change that your party's BS antics are fueling this culture war as much as the Republicans. You just go back and forth vilifying the other side and turning this country into the powderkeg it is.
These clowns just keep upping the ante. Crying about Hilary lost, it was the Russians. Trump crying he lost, it was Democrats stealing elections. It both feeds into the other sides paranoia and undermines the nation.
So stop trying to sell me on rubbish when I've been watching this garbage from you two polar opposites for decades now. The Democrats always like to put their noses in the air and pretend their claims are more valid with their media arm pushing their agenda. But it isn't, never was, and is tiresome. It's all damaging to the nation.
Here are the facts:
1. Hunter Biden is corrupt. He made money off his father's name and influence. He did it for years. Plenty of politicians do this, so par for the course.
2. The Clintons are corrupt as all hell. Hilary Clinton torpedoed Sanders in the primaries. She engineered the Russian Election fraud attack on Trump as political revenge to cast a shadow over his presidency. If you read deeper than a puddle, she's tried it with a few others as well including Tulsi Gabbard in her own party. She's a low character person and I'm glad she lost. Her and Bill are two of the most corrupt and powerful politicians in DC. Yet Democrats just love them and think they're great.
3. Trump is corrupt as is Mitch McConnell. All they care about is winning so they can push the agenda of them and their cronies. Trump's been corrupt for years. He's been paying off politicians and such for years. Finally decided to go do it himself and make all that nice money off his influence.
4. Both of these parties lie and manipulate and manufacture all kinds of fake fights to vilify each other. Then they do the same crap they are supposedly against once in office. About the only thing you can count on is Republicans will always push lower taxes, Democrats will always push higher taxes. As far as the rest, both parties just keep us involved in tons of trash that we don't need.
If Americans want a better nation, they are going to need to scour both of these parties clean because they have both reach a point of such venal and ridiculous corruption that Americans don't even know what is true or false anymore. Or what these clown parties are doing. They just half-believe what the media is telling them for the sake of their sanity. I wouldn't be surprised if each future generation becomes more and more disenchanted with this mess. Hopefully to the effect of some real change.