Election Reform

[RiverDog]

Whether we like it or not, election reform is a topic that isn't going to go away. No, the 2020 election was not stolen and no, there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. The issue was manufactured to help support Donald Trump's schizophrenic mind, his inner self that cannot accept rejection, and hence, the election must have been stolen.

Some of my takes on a few of the initiatives are as follows:

Voter ID: Yes, so long as obtaining a government issued photo ID is free and relatively uncomplicated. A video call with a facial recognition device to positively identify a potential voter should be doable.

Same day registration: No. There's no way the eligibility can be determined in such a short amount of time, at least not in all voting precincts. This should be left up to the states. Two weeks seems to be a more reasonable period of time.

Mailing out ballots w/o a request: I'm good with mailing unrequested ballots if they've voted within the past year or so, but I do not think it wise to send them out arbitrarily as there's too much of a potential of them falling into the wrong hands.

Limiting the number of ballot drop boxes: No. If anything, we should be increasing them so long as they can be placed in a secure location. I would like to see us wean ourselves away from using the USPS to handle ballots, and that means more ballot drop boxes.

I agree with Senator Manchin's opposition to his own party's voting rights legislation. Not only are some of the provisions very unwise, there needs to be some sort of bipartisan consensus if we are to restore the public's faith in the system.

Comments?

[c_hawkbob]

Pure BS, especially the "bipartisan" crap. Nothing in all the time Mitch was Majority Leader ever neede to be bipartisan, but now that he's Minority suddenly it matters.

Voting should be easier and more inclusive while still fair and honest. We're not playing Ninja Warrior here, there's no reason to create hoops to jump through.

If you want true election reform get rid of corporate lobbyists and all donations gteater than a couple hundred bucks. Right now our eentire system is beholing to everyone but the American People.

[RiverDog]

Pure BS, especially the "bipartisan" crap. Nothing in all the time Mitch was Majority Leader ever neede to be bipartisan, but now that he's Minority suddenly it matters.

I disagree completely. You're playing a game of tit-for-tat. Why should it matter what McConnell, Schumer, or anyone else did or didn't do in the past? What relevance does it have to the current dilemma? Voting rights isn't something that you want to railroad through with the VP breaking a tie vote, and in my view, would be a disaster for the Democratic Party as it would invite a huge backlash. It's a subject that demands bipartisanship. Otherwise, we'll continue to have these open wounds that Trump festered and may exploit in 2024.

There's a lot of flaws in the Dem's voting rights bill that a moderate conservative like me cannot support and reflected in the fact that Democratic Senators Manchin and Sinema won't support it, either.

Voting should be easier and more inclusive while still fair and honest. We're not playing Ninja Warrior here, there's no reason to create hoops to jump through.

Agreed. But can we really make same day registration "honest"? Is there not a risk of fraud in sending out thousands of unrequested ballots to people that may have changed their address, may have died, etc?

I do not view voter ID as a "hoop to jump through." With today's technology, it should be possible to make getting an ID easy and cheap, and for the non driver's license voter, free of charge. There's no reason for someone to have to go to the DMV, sit in line for an hour, then pay $50 if all they want is a government issued ID suitable for voting, boarding a plane, etc.

If you want true election reform get rid of corporate lobbyists and all donations gteater than a couple hundred bucks. Right now our eentire system is beholing to everyone but the American People.

My counter argument would be that taking so much money out of the system would result in only people with money, people like Donald Trump, being able to afford to run for public office. We should be expanding the pool of applicants for public office and perhaps get better candidates by making it possible for people with lesser means to run for office.

[Aseahawkfan]

My general voter concerns:

1. ID: Not sure why proving you're a citizen with a legal right to vote in a given area is a problem. I don't get it. That should be required period. Not sure why it isn't given it is so easy to do.

2. I don't think unsolicited ballots should be sent out. I think people should have to make some effort to vote by showing an interest in doing so. Randomly sending ballots to people you haven't confirmed can legally vote is a bad idea and should be illegal.

3. I would prefer an online voting system at this point. I was looking at Apple's new ID system where you can store your ID in your phone. You no longer have to carry a physical ID with you, you can use your digital ID in your phone for everything. I like that. I think it would be good for voting as well. You confirm it is you on your phone or computer using some biological marker. I know Apple uses face recognition, but you can use eye or fingerprint as well. The system confirms it is you and then you can vote. I think that would be far more secure than the current system and using a biological marker already included in the system would make identification even stronger.

I think as DNA tech gets better, we might be able to do DNA matching to ensure the right person is voting. Signatures are easy to forge. Extra ballots easy to use. But if they DNA match you, that is hard to replicate or forge. And it could be double-checked across the system very easily to see if someone with the same DNA match voted more than once.

I don't fear tech myself. I think we can leverage it to make safer, more secure, more accurate online voting systems using the tools we have. We have these systems able to discern biomarkers, why aren't we using them for voting? Why continue this dumb system that lacks good ID checks, allows the dead to vote, allows unsolicited ballots to be filled out by anyone, when we have these incredible computer systems that can track better than any human can to ensure legal voting and count the votes immediately.

4. I'm absolutely fine with a well-regulated mail-in voting system. I get that the COVID created conditions where we needed to do some things to ensure people could vote safely that skirted normal regulations. But now we know how the conditions will be. We can build a well-regulated mail-in voting system in every state with clear proof citizenship and right to vote. Get it done. None of this last minute change BS.

My dad and stepmom have been voting by mail in Washington State for decades and now vote by mail in Arizona for the last 5 years. It was easy for them to set up, prove they had a right to vote, and vote by mail. I have no idea why this is even a discussion in 2021. Vote by mail is fine. You can put a well-regulated system in place without issue. States should get it done. I and my friends vote by mail and have been doing so for decades. I don't understand the dispute. It sounds stupid when I hear this discussed as an issue.

[RiverDog]

My dad and stepmom have been voting by mail in Washington State for decades and now vote by mail in Arizona for the last 5 years. It was easy for them to set up, prove they had a right to vote, and vote by mail. I have no idea why this is even a discussion in 2021. Vote by mail is fine. You can put a well-regulated system in place without issue. States should get it done. I and my friends vote by mail and have been doing so for decades. I don't understand the dispute. It sounds stupid when I hear this discussed as an issue.

I've changed my tune somewhat on vote by mail. I used to feel that it was more secure for a person to present themselves at a polling place, sign a book which could be easily compared with previous signatures, then cast a vote. It required some degree of effort, which I feel is a good thing as it shows that you care enough and are informed enough to make a modest sacrifice of your personal time. I have no desire to be led by the ignorant masses.

But now, especially this year when we were in a pandemic, I've come around some and I'm more comfortable with voting remotely. I do want to see the USPS taken out of the loop as much as possible, except for remote areas where drop boxes aren't a practical option. We saw last year how the USPS, a government agency, can be politicalized. Keeping the government out of the process as much as possible will help restore confidence in the system.

I still feel that there should be some degree of personal sacrifice that should be made in order to cast a vote, like a short trip to a ballot drop box or finding someone to deliver your ballot for you. Sending out unrequested ballots is absurd, sort of like leading a horse to water and making them drink. If you don't care enough about casting your vote that you won't make even the smallest effort, I don't want to hear from you, anyway.

As far as online voting is concerned, I still don't think we're there yet as far as security goes. Even if it were 100% secure, with all the hacking and criminal activity that's been in the headlines recently, people aren't going to trust it. One of the goals of any voter reform needs to involve restoring confidence in the system.

Agreed about DNA matching or utilizing other advances in technology such as facial recognition or retina scans to help confirm identity. It shouldn't be that difficult and should be able to be designed so anyone with access to a computer can use. If I can unlock my tablet or phone simply by looking at it, designing a user friendly voter ID system shouldn't be a problem, either.

Most of the Republican proposals I can agree with, at least in theory. It's when they start dipping into these absurd provisions, like not giving food and water to voters standing in line, reducing the number of drop box locations, etc, that sullies their proposals. Those rotten apples are spoiling an otherwise good barrel of initiatives.

[Hawktawk]

On the proposed federal voter
Legislation Joe Manchin tried to compromise, refused to support doing away with the filibuster and Lon and behold Moscow Mitch McConnell still blocked it . I dunno the ins and outs of all the changes other than red state republicans win or lose are blocking voter access or making it very difficult since the same rules that brought them win after win are suddenly unfair . Unamerican pos. Sorry your trumplican party sucks and suppression is your only way to win going forward . Polls show fully 33 % of Americans overwhelmingly trumplican don’t believe Biden was fairly elected. That’s never going to change but only get worse . And Cheeto keeps spinning the lie. Of all his evil acts of treason against America this is the worst , the permanent legacy of the worst most unfit president in history .

[RiverDog]

On the proposed federal voter
Legislation Joe Manchin tried to compromise, refused to support doing away with the filibuster and Lon and behold Moscow Mitch McConnell still blocked it . I dunno the ins and outs of all the changes other than red state republicans win or lose are blocking voter access or making it very difficult since the same rules that brought them win after win are suddenly unfair . Unamerican pos. Sorry your trumplican party sucks and suppression is your only way to win going forward . Polls show fully 33 % of Americans overwhelmingly trumplican don’t believe Biden was fairly elected. That’s never going to change but only get worse . And Cheeto keeps spinning the lie. Of all his evil acts of treason against America this is the worst , the permanent legacy of the worst most unfit president in history .

Hey, Hawktalk! Glad you're still around!

The problem is that both sides are wrong and both sides are right. Some of the things the R's have proposed, like limiting ballot drop boxes, are absurd, while the Dems are making a nonsensical and expensive proposal to make Election Day a national holiday. There's lots of room to compromise, but both sides are entrenched in their POV's to such an extent that nothing is going to happen.

I'm glad that they didn't do away with the filibuster and wish they'd make the 60 vote threshold a requirement for SCOTUS nominations like they used to. It would force both sides to compromise and decrease the likelihood of one party railroading something through simply because they have a simple majority.