Aseahawkfan wrote:Yes. It's important that this be fought legally to make sure the common law remains quite clear that requiring vaccination is the same as any other choice by private business or the government. Too many people forget the life part of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. There is a reason life is before liberty even though liberty should be first alphabetically. Even back when George Washington was dealing with an outbreak of a dangerous viral infection, he used force to quarantine people. If Washington were alive today, he would be far meaner when enforcing mandates like this than modern presidents. He and men like Jefferson would not have tolerated this anti-scientific trash based on liberty. Both were men very much into science and human advancement. They would not have seen intelligent medical measures taken to slow a virus as an infringement on liberty dangerous to the ideas of the American Constitution. That is right wing crazy BS.
Hawktawk wrote:I cannot wrap my head around a guy like deathsantis doubling down with record cases and pediatric wards slammed this time . It’s evil. Towards the end of Cheetos term I said if you still support him you have a death wish . Same goes for deathsantis
RiverDog wrote:Yeah, and Greg Abbott in Texas isn't much better. But on the flip side, the Alabama Governor, a R, sure told it like it is: "Folks are supposed to have common sense!" It's time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks. She's exactly right. This surge is 100% on the unvaccinated no matter what their political persuasion is. Arkansas's R Governor is trying his best, too, so it seems like a mixed lot.
Locally, our hospitals are having to send patients as far as 600 miles away to find an open bed. The small town hospital in Prosser had to call 20 other hospitals to find a bed for a patient with needs beyond what they can provide. We have 4 days of triple digit weather in the forecast and they're going to have to start setting up tents again. No wonder there's so many health care providers that are quitting. This is entirely preventable.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I really wish they would refuse service to people who have are refusing vaccination for stupid reasons. They demand their freedom. I demand they accept the consequences of their choices.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I'd support so much more such as the legalization of drugs if people would truly accept responsibility for their terrible choices. The way the government and organizations run, they seem to let these people make dumb choices then demand we pay for it. I don't understand why it is so hard to look coldly upon idiots and tell them, "You made a dumb choice. Now you are paying the price for it. Go home or wherever you need to and remember we have given you your liberty. But with liberty comes consequences. You must pay them for your stupidity."
I would do this. I have in fact done this. I don't help friends and family who make idiot decisions continuously, even if they will die or live on the streets. I absolutely expect that a person receiving help from me do as I tell them and act with sense or I won't help. I don't throw money and time into black holes like I've seen the government and some people do with hopelessly foolish people.
NorthHawk wrote:The problem in many cases is the hospital staff. There either isn't enough of them or the people they have are getting burned out after about a year and a half of dealing with this virus. It must be incredibly frustrating trying to help people who are very sick denying they have the virus or asking too late to get the vaccine. It's now striking children with a lot more than previous having to be sent to hospital with some dying, and others possibly impacted for life with lung problems. It's really going to hit home with some of these deniers when their kids have to go to hospital with Covid. And since the vaccine isn't yet approved for younger children, their best defense is for us adults to get vaccinated in high enough volumes to limit the spread within society.
NorthHawk wrote:Is that because she believes in vaccinations or because she believes in business being able to dictate terms of service? I guess it really doesn’t matter in this case and other cases involving private companies. I wonder if she would rule the same for challenges to the Government sector.
Hawktawk wrote:Love hearing him whine about Kavanaugh"where would he be without me" He'd be where he belongs Trump, in a lower court due to the skeletons in his closet but its beautiful the loyalty he's showing you. you're so deserving.
RiverDog wrote:The "skeletons" came out of the closet only after Kavanaugh was nominated to SCOTUS. Up until then, in all of his confirmations on various benches, all we heard from his accusers was crickets.
RiverDog wrote:The "skeletons" came out of the closet only after Kavanaugh was nominated to SCOTUS. Up until then, in all of his confirmations on various benches, all we heard from his accusers was crickets.
Aseahawkfan wrote:Those accusations were pure BS.
Apparently all the women who spoke up on behalf of Kavanaugh and all the 30 plus years since his college and high school days, he had no accusations of I know of. But they went in the way back machine to his High School and College days, found some accusers and hopped on the metoo# movement to try to take him down because he was nominated by Trump.
And all the women that spoke up on behalf of Kavanaugh's character for the last 30 years of his life completely ignored.
It was a complete sham.
RiverDog wrote:The "skeletons" came out of the closet only after Kavanaugh was nominated to SCOTUS. Up until then, in all of his confirmations on various benches, all we heard from his accusers was crickets.
Hawktawk wrote:The fact is Mitch McConnell warned trump against the pick, the skeletons were there.
Hawktawk wrote:See you just didn't follow the story. Blasi Ford was the first but there were several others along with 4K!!!!!!!!! tips that were hidden away. As I say I've got a half dozen KNOWN FACTS that shape my belief and hatred of Trump isn't an issue here.And molestations of a 14 year old is highly criminal behavior. As is whipping out your junk and flashing it in a girls face as was reported by ms Ramires.
NorthHawk wrote:It doesn't matter where you go in the world you will find some fools that want to cause problems with mask mandates.
Aseahawkfan wrote:Hmm. It seems Israel is 80% vaccinated and they are getting hammered by the Delta Variant. Sounds like it is going to suck to get old with this COVID19 and all its variants continuing to spread around.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/08/grim-warning-israel-vaccination-blunts-does-not-defeat-delta
RiverDog wrote:Yeah, but those that are fully vaccinated aren't ending up in the hospital and dying:
The sheer number of vaccinated Israelis means some breakthrough infections were inevitable, and the unvaccinated are still far more likely to end up in the hospital or die.
That's one of the things that escapes these anti vaxxers that use as an argument against getting a shot that you can still get Covid even if you're fully vaccinated.
Vaccinations have been ticking up. They're currently sitting just below 900,000 per day and with the FDA's full approval of the Pfizer vaccine and associated mandates, those numbers should improve substantially.
Biden needs to mandate that all health care workers get the shot. He's mandated it for all nursing homes, why not extend that to all health care situations, including hospitals, clinics, et al?
What is clear is that “breakthrough” cases are not the rare events the term implies. As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated. Of the vaccinated, 87% were 60 or older. “There are so many breakthrough infections that they dominate and most of the hospitalized patients are actually vaccinated,” says Uri Shalit, a bioinformatician at the Israel Institute of Technology (Technion) who has consulted on COVID-19 for the government. “One of the big stories from Israel [is]: ‘Vaccines work, but not well enough.’”
RiverDog wrote:Yeah, but those that are fully vaccinated aren't ending up in the hospital and dying:
The sheer number of vaccinated Israelis means some breakthrough infections were inevitable, and the unvaccinated are still far more likely to end up in the hospital or die.
That's one of the things that escapes these anti vaxxers that use as an argument against getting a shot that you can still get Covid even if you're fully vaccinated.
Vaccinations have been ticking up. They're currently sitting just below 900,000 per day and with the FDA's full approval of the Pfizer vaccine and associated mandates, those numbers should improve substantially.
Biden needs to mandate that all health care workers get the shot. He's mandated it for all nursing homes, why not extend that to all health care situations, including hospitals, clinics, et al?
Aseahawkfan wrote:You will have to watch this closely because that is not the numerical information we are getting out of Israel.
What is clear is that “breakthrough” cases are not the rare events the term implies. As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated. Of the vaccinated, 87% were 60 or older. “There are so many breakthrough infections that they dominate and most of the hospitalized patients are actually vaccinated,” says Uri Shalit, a bioinformatician at the Israel Institute of Technology (Technion) who has consulted on COVID-19 for the government. “One of the big stories from Israel [is]: ‘Vaccines work, but not well enough.’”
Aseahawkfan wrote:This may be a more honest assessment of what might occur here. Right now we have people stating that the vaccines are working well against the Delta Variant, but the numbers are showing something else in Israel that we need to be aware of.
We will see how it plays out in the death rate and the hospitalization numbers long-term. It sounds very much like we're going to have to accept that COVID19 is here to stay, the vaccines help but aren't a guarantee, and these variants are going to have to be accounted for.
Hawktawk wrote:My wife does MRI for confluence in Moses lake /Wenatchee . They were informed Friday that all non life threatening elective surgeries are postponed until further notice . They report the icu is at 100
% capacity with 34 Covid patients . 14 are in critical condition and 4 on ventilators . All but 2 are unvaccinated . It’s a 4th wave of their unvaccinated idiot arse and they are keeping these mutations going to punch through the vaccine of those who did the right thing . Really starting to loath these subcult of the trump cult .
As for these breakthrough cases it’s always been a fact they weren’t 100% effective , more like 75/80% give or take. Of course not everyone was exposed so actual cases were low. delta reportedly has at least 300 times the viral load which is what generally determines level of infection , also the level of infection carried on to others by positive persons whether asymptomatic or vaccinated . As distancing was relaxed, masks went bye bye , half the folks declined the shot and along came delta .
I’ve said it for months . We may yet be too stupid as a country to ever beat this , as a planet . Too selfish . Too in love with the almighty $. People forget it was year 2 of the Spanish flu that killed 50 million and we are a doomsday mutation from it right now .
RiverDog wrote:I wish I had a link with a quote, but a few weeks ago, I saw an FDA official mention that they have some issues with some of the data that Israel is providing, that they aren't based on a large enough or random enough sampling. I think it was mentioned as a result of questioning regarding the FDA's review of Israel's data when they were assessing the need for booster shots.
Aseahawkfan wrote:I would trust Israel over American information. Israel has some of the best doctors and medical companies in the world. They are easily on par with American medicine.
Aseahawkfan wrote:And I do not want information hidden for political purposes. If the vaccines are getting punched through by Delta, they had better tell us. No screwing around with mixed messaging or what not. We need clear information concerning how well the vaccines are holding up to the Delta Variant with no playing around.
RiverDog wrote:The issue wasn't whose doctors to trust. It was whose mathematicians to trust.
Do you suspect that information is being hidden or glossed over?
That's why the FDA has an independent panel review the data and make a recommendation, so as to insure against "cooking the books" for political purposes. If there's any government agency that I trust, it's the FDA. If the POTUS can't force their hand, like Trump tried to do on multiple occasions by trying to get the vaccines approved before the election, then I think they're pretty resilient to political pressure, or at least as resilient as a government agency can be.
There's scores of other agencies around the world, public as well as private, that are looking at the performance of same vaccines against the same virus. It would be pretty damn hard to significantly alter information on these particular vaccines.
Aseahawkfan wrote:No, but the political messaging does not seem in line with the actions taken and information coming out.
Aseahawkfan wrote:We are now doing booster shots. Hospitals are filling. Deaths are rising. The messaging seems to be mainly the unvaccinated, but why booster shots if that is the case? What is the ratio here of vaccinated versus unvaccinated in the hospital and dying in America? Are they going off the Israeli information? Or do we have information indicating the Delta Variant is punching through, so we need boosters?
Aseahawkfan wrote:The Pfizer vaccine last I read is only 39% effective against the Delta Variant, but supposedly drastically reduces hospitalizations and deaths.
Aseahawkfan wrote:Right now it seems we're not sure exactly how well things are holding up with the Delta Variant now the dominant strain. I hope they get a good idea on this quicker than not. I would prefer my older relatives not go wandering about if their immunity is not holding up well against the Delta Variant.
NorthHawk wrote:It seems that the evidence shows that of the fully vaccinated most cases that go to hospital are the elderly whose immune system has lost
its strength against this virus. It's why booster shots are being administered in some countries and seriously considered in others. Most of
the hospital cases however are the unvaccinated, far outweighing the partially vaccinated and fully vaccinated. The big concern is whether
this Delta variant will mutate into something even worse than it currently is.
c_hawkbob wrote:The biggest concern in my eyes is that the mutations are going to develop to target kids, who are wholly unvaccinated. If that happens their will be the blood of children (in addition to what their already is) on the hands of these anti-vaxers. It's pure freakin evil.
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