Breakthrough infection

[Hawktawk]

I have one . Fully vaccinated with moderna in April. Obeyed every rule with distancing , masks . Minimized time in enclosed spaces . Last Friday we had a crew party at Chico’s pizza for legacy golf resort. I sat down and was joined by an employee on a bench seat , a former cop whose politics I’m sure is not vaccinated . I wound up visiting with him for 2 hours at the end of which he informed me his wife was not there because she had bronchitis . By Monday he was flat on his back with a 103 temp . I started feeling a little off Tuesday but worked through Thursday . Fortunately
In golf I’m usually alone . I got tested Thursday and came back positive for both influenza B and Covid 19. I feel pretty good for 62 with COPD, heart issues , 30 lbs overweight. Never lost taste or smell. No fever . Just aches and extreme congestion . I could work tomorrow . My faith in vaccines is strong at this point and I will take as many shots as needed till we figure this out

[curmudgeon]

Ouch. Scary. Be well soon!

[Hawktawk]

Thanks . I’ve survived a lot already , head on collision , run over by a boat , heart attack , gi bleed . If this s*** gets me it’s my time .

[RiverDog]

A friend of mine and his wife, of whom were ten times more careful of the virus than I ever was and were both fully vaxxed and whose politics are at about 99% on the liberal end of the spectrum, got infected. I accused him of hanging out with too many Deplorables, and we had a good chuckle. In addition, my daughter, whom works as a charge nurse at an urgent care clinic in Spokane, told me that they're seeing a lot of break through infections. Where 6 months ago break through infections were extremely rare, they're quite common now.

It's due to two thing: The Delta variant, which is much more transmissible, and people not getting the jab, which gives the virus more hosts.

Fortunately you had the common sense to get vaccinated, so your infection is less likely to develop into a life threatening form. But nevertheless, I'm still extremely concerned for your health and that of your family as I truly consider you a good friend. Please keep us updated on your status. Get well soon!

[Hawktawk]

Thanks RD. Yes I follow this intently . Delta is so much more virulent 300% load it punches through . It makes these little cloth and paper masks we wear basically useless . And there’s 35% resistance including among police and first responders which hits closer to the national number than public service in general which is well over 90% vaxed. My friend and employee Paul is retired MLPD. His politics no way he was vaxxed . When he sat down I felt like getting up. I know he was 103 temp Monday and continued to be ill all week. My bet he’s not gonna get tested which is something that ticks me off as an employee that my company does not require sick employees to get tested . I can’t hate on Paul he’s a good guy and I hope he’s ok . It was either him or someone in the place I got exposed to but if it’s him and I was sitting that close for 2 hours I’d say it’s a good thing I was vaccinated . Wife is having some symptoms which sucks . She’s almost 12 years younger and vaxxed medical industry technician so fingers crossed .

I consider you a friend too RD. Too bad we didn’t get the r v trip up to
Mardon done . Now isn’t the time trust me

[RiverDog]

I consider you a friend too RD. Too bad we didn’t get the r v trip up to Mardon done . Now isn’t the time trust me

We'll do it eventually.

BTW, I got my booster shot 10 days ago, and I've had Moderna, the best of the 3 as has my wife, so we're feeling pretty confident. But we're still careful.

[Aseahawkfan]

You'll survive, hawktawk. I've survived COVID19 twice and been exposed 6 or so times. It doesn't have a very high mortality rate. It's worse than the flu, but not by much. And most of that is probably accounted for by being new and not having treatments and shots like we have now. You should be fine.

You have a vaccine/COVID shot. As long as at risk people get it yearly, we should be ok.

We know what this is and what it does at this point. It is under control.

[RiverDog]

We know what this is and what it does at this point. It is under control.

Two rights and a wrong. We know what it is. We know what it does. But it is not under control, particularly in areas with low vaccination rates.

My primary care doctor is very confident that once they start vaccinating kids 5-11 that we'll gain the upper hand. I hope he's right. I'm getting damn tired of these measures.

[Hawktawk]

It’s not under control. I follow it globally . It’s worse in China right now than anytime since the wuhan peak . Israel is on the 4th shot and still have infections although much lower mortality . It may never be over. But everyone including Covid zero holdouts like New Zealand and Australia are opening up and facing the consequences. On the other hand Russia population 140 million is losing well over 1 k lives a day despite being one of the earliest to develop a vaccine. Problem is only 35% have taken it . Putin declared a 14 day paid stay home holiday to try to flatten the curve .

It’s far from over .

[RiverDog]

It’s not under control. I follow it globally . It’s worse in China right now than anytime since the wuhan peak . Israel is on the 4th shot and still have infections although much lower mortality . It may never be over. But everyone including Covid zero holdouts like New Zealand and Australia are opening up and facing the consequences. On the other hand Russia population 140 million is losing well over 1 k lives a day despite being one of the earliest to develop a vaccine. Problem is only 35% have taken it . Putin declared a 14 day paid stay home holiday to try to flatten the curve .

It’s far from over .

True. It's not under control in our country, either, as we continue to see hot spots pop up. I just read an article where the Governor of Colorado, due to a Covid surge, signed an order allowing hospitals to reject patients:

Hospitals in Colorado are being allowed to turn away patients as the state experiences its worst Covid surge in a year. An order signed Sunday by Gov. Jared Polis gives health care professionals the authority to prioritize crisis care under the direction of the state health department.

A total of 1,358 Covid patients were hospitalized across Colorado on Wednesday, almost a 50 percent increase from the 909 Covid patients hospitalized on Oct. 3, according to the state's Covid-19 dashboard.

Covid hospitalization rates have been steadily growing since a summer low in Colorado, with 455 reported at the start of August. Polis said the state has the fifth-highest number of Covid cases in the country.

The majority of Covid hospitalizations are among unvaccinated

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/co ... e-n1283161

It is getting much better in our area, but with the coming cold weather sending more people indoors and the approaching holiday season, there's a very good chance that we could see another surge equal to or greater than those in the past. Plus there are concerns that we could be in for a rough flu season as well.

[Hawktawk]

My wife is 50 and is having quite a bit more trouble than I had. I feel as good as I have in years honestly and am off probation Friday. My wife has been symptomatic for 6 days and the last 3 has had hoarseness and congestion in her lungs. Not terrible but uncomfortable. She's recovering from a recent back surgery as well but she is a fit 50 year old non smoker with no co morbidities. Her vaccine with Pfizer was in Dec 20 and for whatever reason she was not approved for a booster despite being a medical caregiver.

But with what I've learned about this its all about viral load vs Immune system. I sat next to an unvaccinated infected man and I mean 2 feet away on a bench actively facing him and talking for 2 hours and had a break through. Quite mild. Last I heard he was at 103 degrees for days.

My wife who was not in that seating area but with a girlfriend was exposed for 4 days before realizing I was infected so a much higher viral load. But thank goodness I was vaccinated not only for me but for my spouse. Vaccinated break thought cases initially carry the same viral load as unvaxxed but it drops much faster. I remain concerned for my wife for sure. I've told her if she's not improving by today she needs to contact her primary again and get further instructions. scary.

[RiverDog]

My wife is 50 and is having quite a bit more trouble than I had. I feel as good as I have in years honestly and am off probation Friday. My wife has been symptomatic for 6 days and the last 3 has had hoarseness and congestion in her lungs. Not terrible but uncomfortable. She's recovering from a recent back surgery as well but she is a fit 50 year old non smoker with no co morbidities. Her vaccine with Pfizer was in Dec 20 and for whatever reason she was not approved for a booster despite being a medical caregiver.

But with what I've learned about this its all about viral load vs Immune system. I sat next to an unvaccinated infected man and I mean 2 feet away on a bench actively facing him and talking for 2 hours and had a break through. Quite mild. Last I heard he was at 103 degrees for days.

My wife who was not in that seating area but with a girlfriend was exposed for 4 days before realizing I was infected so a much higher viral load. But thank goodness I was vaccinated not only for me but for my spouse. Vaccinated break thought cases initially carry the same viral load as unvaxxed but it drops much faster. I remain concerned for my wife for sure. I've told her if she's not improving by today she needs to contact her primary again and get further instructions. scary.

Thanks for the update. My sincere thoughts are with both of you. Please continue to keep us advised.

Interesting that your wife didn't qualify for a booster. My daughter got one a few weeks ago. She's 35 and in good health, a charge nurse at an urgent care clinic. My wife has two auto immune diseases, MS and RA, but I don't think either of those are part of the criteria for boosters. I signed her up for an appointment back in September as soon as the news broke and when she went in, they were very confused as to if they should be giving her a booster shot or not. They eventually decided to give her a shot, a full dose of Moderna. I got my half dose booster of Moderna two weeks ago.

[I-5]

Thanks . I’ve survived a lot already , head on collision , run over by a boat , heart attack , gi bleed . If this s*** gets me it’s my time .

Wow, mad respect to you, HT. And good to hear that most (if not everyone) on this forum seems to agree that vaccines are a big part of the solution to this terrible situation we're in. We have a 7-year old, and even though the vaccine is still awaiting approval for kids 5-11 in Canada, we've already registered for it and can't wait to have the whole family vaccinated (my wife is double vaxx Astrazeneca which is what was available first in Canada when she was part of the first wave of vaccinations as a school teacher, and I'm double vaxxed Moderna). Both of us had mild side effects from our shots (mild fever, fatigue), but we thought of it as a good thing and it only lasted 24 hours.

[Aseahawkfan]

It’s not under control. I follow it globally . It’s worse in China right now than anytime since the wuhan peak . Israel is on the 4th shot and still have infections although much lower mortality . It may never be over. But everyone including Covid zero holdouts like New Zealand and Australia are opening up and facing the consequences. On the other hand Russia population 140 million is losing well over 1 k lives a day despite being one of the earliest to develop a vaccine. Problem is only 35% have taken it . Putin declared a 14 day paid stay home holiday to try to flatten the curve .

It’s far from over .

I follow it globally as well. It is under control other than continued extreme reactions for something with this low a mortality rate. These waves are going to continue to happen up and down. They will hopefully lessen as time goes on, but if they don't then humans are going to have to learn to live them.

The measures taken to control this are becoming worse. I won't be surprised if you see this viewpoint exercised in the next election cycle in America and many other nations.

Also, the measures The Fed Banks around the world took to push through COVID as well as the various governments are going to likely show severe long-term harm for retirees and wage earners. They printed 40% of all the dollars in circulation over the least year which is pushing up inflation substantially. They continue to push money into the economy and print more further eroding wage earning and fixed income folks. They drove the debt up so high that they will have zero choice but to inflate us out of it to increase GDP in comparison to the debt causing severe inflation.

Since the government does not operate on a for profit basis, they only have a few ways to increase their revenue to cover the budget and service the debt:

1. Increasing taxes or adding new taxes.

2. Inflating assets so the percentage based taxes on assets and income produce more tax revenue while the value of older debt remains static. This very badly screws bond holders and fixed income as well as cash savings, but helps all those with assets and who earn income based on variable sources where costs can be passed on to consumers to maintain margins.

It does not look pretty economically or politically.

[Hawktawk]

My best friend is a capitalist , a fast food franchise owner with multiple outlets . He’s a huge Trump supporter which is the first thing we ever disagreed about in 40 years . He’s now blaming Biden for everything , inflation , shortages , you name it . What it looks to me like is that his guy was worse than asleep at the switch when this pandemic swept the planet . He was obstructionist , dishonest , confusing . His sub cult is the one that won’t mask , quarantine or take the vax . It’s the only line I heard his sheep boo, the one time he said take the vaccines . But it’s Biden that won the fight to try to put out this dumpster fire economically etc and not sure he’s up to the task . I sense some real scary times ahead economically and frankly militarily . Perilous time for the entire planet .

[Hawktawk]

I’ll update here what I posted on the Rodgers thread . My friend and co worker who is my age , unvaxed and almost certainly my source of infection has been hospitalized for 4 days now 12 days after his symptoms began . Paul is a fit healthy man who does not drink or smoke .
Vax works

[RiverDog]

I’ll update here what I posted on the Rodgers thread . My friend and co worker who is my age , unvaxed and almost certainly my source of infection has been hospitalized for 4 days now 12 days after his symptoms began . Paul is a fit healthy man who does not drink or smoke .
Vax works

Speaking of which, how's your wife doing? She contracted Covid, too, didn't she?

We should be getting some data soon on the booster shots, how well they're working. They're already talking about a 4th shot or 2nd booster to be given in 6 months.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="RiverDog"

Speaking of which, how's your wife doing? She contracted Covid, too, didn't she?

We should be getting some data soon on the booster shots, how well they're working. They're already talking about a 4th shot or 2nd booster to be given in 6 months.[/quote]
Wife is definitely better last 24 hours . Lungs are clearing . Her double whammy was recovering from a back surgery when she got this stuff. I’m for boosters . It’s really not that unusual . Flu shots have to be tailored and given annually . With the aggressive infectious nature of this virus it makes perfect sense that boosters are needed . I trust science a lot more than Tucker Carlson or Joe Rogan

[RiverDog]

Speaking of which, how's your wife doing? She contracted Covid, too, didn't she?

We should be getting some data soon on the booster shots, how well they're working. They're already talking about a 4th shot or 2nd booster to be given in 6 months.[/quote]

Wife is definitely better last 24 hours . Lungs are clearing . Her double whammy was recovering from a back surgery when she got this stuff. I’m for boosters . It’s really not that unusual . Flu shots have to be tailored and given annually . With the aggressive infectious nature of this virus it makes perfect sense that boosters are needed . I trust science a lot more than Tucker Carlson or Joe Rogan

Good news!

I can understand a mistrust of the federal government, but even if you don't trust them, there's plenty of information out there from other credible sources on the vaccines, and not just in this country. There's hundreds of colleges and universities, both public and private scattered all over the world that have done independent studies and clinical trials on them.

[RiverDog]

I saw an interview with Scott Gottlieb, a former FDA commissioner, who believes that we're "close to the end of the pandemic phase". He notes two recent developments, including the FDA giving emergency approval for the Pfizer vaccine to be given to children ages 5-11, or grade school age kids. Even if there isn't a high uptake, it's going to significantly increase the percentage of the total population of those that have been vaccinated and reduce the spread.

The other factor is the arrival of anti viral pills used to treat infected patients. Merck claims that their pill can reduce hospitalizations by 50%. The pill has already been approved for use in the United Kingdom. The FDA panel is scheduled to meet on Nov. 30th, so if all goes well, it should be available by Christmas. Pfizer, the makers of the first FDA approved Covid vaccine, also has an anti viral pill in testing that if taken 3 days after symptoms arise can reduce hospitalization by 89%.

The virus isn't going away anytime soon, but with these two factors coming into play, hopefully it will keep people out of hospitals and allow us to get our lives back to normal.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/merck-covi ... YHF4eb9d17

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/05/pfizer- ... rcent.html

[NorthHawk]

Those therapeutic pills might be a huge step in getting past this thing.
One comment I heard however was that they are hard on the liver and kidneys
so the person taking them might have life long effects.

[RiverDog]

Those therapeutic pills might be a huge step in getting past this thing. One comment I heard however was that they are hard on the liver and kidneys so the person taking them might have life long effects.

I hadn't heard about them affecting the liver, but the FDA does have concerns about kidney and bone marrow damage. The UK has already approved the drug but it might be some time before the FDA OK's it. I guess the Brits can be the Guinea pigs. Supposedly Merck's pill works better than the treatment for influenza.

The overall rate of new cases that had been in rapid decline has started to level off for the past couple of weeks, so we could be in for another holiday surge. Our area has seen a very dramatic decrease in cases, almost down to what it was in early June.

Have you folks been able to get booster shots? Sounds like they might be getting approval for adults 18+ here soon.

[Hawktawk]

I was infected with breakthrough Covid on Oct 22 by a friend and co worker . I wound up
Infecting my wife as I was almost asymptomatic . I did excellent . My wife was a little sick for a week. My friend Paul has been hospitalized since Oct 26 and was flown to Spokane to sacred heart on a ventilator last week. He’s my age . In better shape as a non drinking non smoking former MLPD captain . But I heard Paul call Covid the flu for 18 months and I’m certain he’s unvaxed . Just drew his first SS check , loves hot cars and bikes and owns both . He’s got a side by side so fast and he’s so crazy I refuse to ride with him . But he didn’t want the shot because he’s in that sub cult of a cult that hates Biden and Inslee so bad they won’t do what they want . It’s politics , not about freedom . I’m just praying for Paul , honesty even unvaxed this is a fit 62 year old man and I’m shocked by what it’s done. I hope he comes home but the odds aren’t good and he will almost certainly be very ill with lung damage if he does . Now here comes omicron. From another 8% vaxxed country . But Tucker Carlson will be on Faux demonizing Fauci and about 40% of Americans mostly trumpanzees will go uh huh and nod their heads . And we’re gonna do this over and over forever . The world has gone mad .

[Aseahawkfan]

I was infected with breakthrough Covid on Oct 22 by a friend and co worker . I wound up
Infecting my wife as I was almost asymptomatic . I did excellent . My wife was a little sick for a week. My friend Paul has been hospitalized since Oct 26 and was flown to Spokane to sacred heart on a ventilator last week. He’s my age . In better shape as a non drinking non smoking former MLPD captain . But I heard Paul call Covid the flu for 18 months and I’m certain he’s unvaxed . Just drew his first SS check , loves hot cars and bikes and owns both . He’s got a side by side so fast and he’s so crazy I refuse to ride with him . But he didn’t want the shot because he’s in that sub cult of a cult that hates Biden and Inslee so bad they won’t do what they want . It’s politics , not about freedom . I’m just praying for Paul , honesty even unvaxed this is a fit 62 year old man and I’m shocked by what it’s done. I hope he comes home but the odds aren’t good and he will almost certainly be very ill with lung damage if he does . Now here comes omicron. From another 8% vaxxed country . But Tucker Carlson will be on Faux demonizing Fauci and about 40% of Americans mostly trumpanzees will go uh huh and nod their heads . And we’re gonna do this over and over forever . The world has gone mad .

The only thing that will make the anti-vax or "You can't make me take the vaccine because freedom" is a much higher death rate. If we hit 1% or worse, that would start to make some of the hard heads change their minds. But that isn't likely to happen so they get to listen to alternative scientific takes that aren't at all in line with what we know about how to handle a viral outbreak.

I wish we would start sending more vaccines to under-vaccinated nations. If dumbass Americans don't want to take them, we could do more good vaccinating poorer nations who have plenty of citizens more than willing to give a vaccine a shot.

And people putting themselves at risk and the population at risk acts as a sort of Darwinian Mechanism for weeding out fools who don't want to use the medical tools available to them to limit their danger from a viral outbreak.

I give the fools I know the information. They can do what they want with it. I really don't care. A vaccine should work regardless of whether dumbasses around you don't want to use it.

[RiverDog]

I was infected with breakthrough Covid on Oct 22 by a friend and co worker . I wound up
Infecting my wife as I was almost asymptomatic . I did excellent . My wife was a little sick for a week. My friend Paul has been hospitalized since Oct 26 and was flown to Spokane to sacred heart on a ventilator last week. He’s my age . In better shape as a non drinking non smoking former MLPD captain . But I heard Paul call Covid the flu for 18 months and I’m certain he’s unvaxed . Just drew his first SS check , loves hot cars and bikes and owns both . He’s got a side by side so fast and he’s so crazy I refuse to ride with him . But he didn’t want the shot because he’s in that sub cult of a cult that hates Biden and Inslee so bad they won’t do what they want . It’s politics , not about freedom . I’m just praying for Paul , honesty even unvaxed this is a fit 62 year old man and I’m shocked by what it’s done. I hope he comes home but the odds aren’t good and he will almost certainly be very ill with lung damage if he does . Now here comes omicron. From another 8% vaxxed country . But Tucker Carlson will be on Faux demonizing Fauci and about 40% of Americans mostly trumpanzees will go uh huh and nod their heads . And we’re gonna do this over and over forever . The world has gone mad .

The only thing that will make the anti-vax or "You can't make me take the vaccine because freedom" is a much higher death rate. If we hit 1% or worse, that would start to make some of the hard heads change their minds. But that isn't likely to happen so they get to listen to alternative scientific takes that aren't at all in line with what we know about how to handle a viral outbreak.

I wish we would start sending more vaccines to under-vaccinated nations. If dumbass Americans don't want to take them, we could do more good vaccinating poorer nations who have plenty of citizens more than willing to give a vaccine a shot.

And people putting themselves at risk and the population at risk acts as a sort of Darwinian Mechanism for weeding out fools who don't want to use the medical tools available to them to limit their danger from a viral outbreak.

I give the fools I know the information. They can do what they want with it. I really don't care. A vaccine should work regardless of whether dumbasses around you don't want to use it.

It's good to hear that you and the Mrs. are doing OK. I hope your friend improves.

We have been doing a little better on vaccinations as the mandates are working to some degree. The problem is that we're going to need booster shots to say ahead of the variants so there's going to be this question as to what qualifies as 'fully vaccinated.'

I agree completely with ASF about donating vaccines to the rest of the world, especially places like Africa. The problem is that it requires much more than just shipping them out on a FedEx plane. Most of Africa does not have the infrastructure in place to store the vaccines, get them into arms, and a data system to keep track of those that have been vaxxed.

The problem with the freedom anti vaxxers is that the death rate not only isn't high enough, the deaths aren't graphic enough. If people were staggering out of their homes, regurgatating their guts on their front lawn, it would scare the Devil out of them. But they all die inside the walls of a hospital.

[Hawktawk]

The horror stories are real . I bet there’s 100 people who know what’s up with Paul and I’d guess 75% aren’t vaxxed.so we will see. I lost a friend in my hometown of coulee city ; a few years older than me . A health nut and Covid denier . An awful death . Everyone in my hometown knows about it . I’d say under 50% vaxxed based on social media . I’ve heard reports of icu nurses dealing with unvaxed patients ready to be intubated swearing at them with pink foam coming out their mouth Covid isn’t real get me the right medicine . Relatives threatening doctors who won’t administer horse medicine . I don’t know how much more horrible it needs to be . These people are in a cult . I agree with Asea . Send it overseas if these stupid people won’t take it .

[Aseahawkfan]

It's good to hear that you and the Mrs. are doing OK. I hope your friend improves.

We have been doing a little better on vaccinations as the mandates are working to some degree. The problem is that we're going to need booster shots to say ahead of the variants so there's going to be this question as to what qualifies as 'fully vaccinated.'

I agree completely with ASF about donating vaccines to the rest of the world, especially places like Africa. The problem is that it requires much more than just shipping them out on a FedEx plane. Most of Africa does not have the infrastructure in place to store the vaccines, get them into arms, and a data system to keep track of those that have been vaxxed.

The problem with the freedom anti vaxxers is that the death rate not only isn't high enough, the deaths aren't graphic enough. If people were staggering out of their homes, regurgatating their guts on their front lawn, it would scare the Devil out of them. But they all die inside the walls of a hospital.

I've heard tons of people's alternative takes on COVID. Their only solution is to just do nothing and let people decide whether they care or not until they end up in the hospital taking up some bed and expecting the medical system to take care of them because they listened to other scientists making claims that what the government is doing right now isn't literally basic virology 101. And that it's some kind of personal freedom issue.

Look at people like this trents guy who obvious listens to alternative takes on this while having no solution offered for how to handle a viral outbreak other than what they're doing. They cite the Constitution while providing no proof of a Constitutional right to not take a vaccine or comply with other means to control a viral outbreak. Even as they forget in the Preamble it states, "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness" with life first as a priority over liberty even though liberty is alphabetically first. Even The Founders of the nation understood that the protection of life is a first priority or the other two ideas don't mean much.

We have drafts. We have mandatory registration for the draft for 18 year old males. We have laws of all types to protect life, liberty, and property. When it comes to that life aspect, they want to claim rights they do not have. Then they try to second guess people who have been handling viral outbreaks for decades using very standard methods for doing so like lockdowns aka mass quarantines to break the contact chain, treatments like checking to see if already existing medicines or procedures exist that work, and vaccines to eradicate like they did with small pox or polio and do yearly with the flu. But no, the alternative science is the truth and not the hard science that has been practiced for hundreds of years and over a hundred years with vaccines.

It's tiresome to listen to. I have to listen to this garbage from conservative buddies who spend all their time listening to these alternative methods that offer no real solution than walk around taking the risk. I wish a bunch of these clowns who think they're suddenly experts because they listened to some alternative study have their jobs second guessed with alternative science that they know doesn't work so they know what it is like to deal with an idiot who thinks they know more than an expert about something like how to handle infectious disease on a large scale. They should have someone sit there at their job telling them they're wrong about the basic aspects of their job and they not listen to any information they provide as to why they do their job the way they do it. See how that goes.

[Hawktawk]

All this right here^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^As a former pastoral major whose read the book cover to cover 3 times there's no religious exemption either. There's no talk of self but rather sacrifice and love for one's neighbor as yourself.
I saw 3 fox new hosts talking yesterday about how this new Omicron variant is a democratic hoax designed to scare the public into compliance, expect a new variant avery year or so for political reasons . you can not make up the things people are willing to make up for ratings even though their network is almost fully vaxxed.

Cancun Ted Cruz called for the arrest and imprisonment of Anthony Fauci in a senate hearing after which Fauci shot back" did you notice what happened on Jan 6?" Faucio has needed security full time for over a year now, a man who has spent 30 years fighting infectious diseases.
Its a madhouse. Like Fauci said yesterday we're gonna have to live with coronavirus because we will never eradicate it at this rate.

[RiverDog]

Over in another forum, I've been debating another poster over the JFK assassination and Oliver Stone's latest conspiracy venture when it occurred to me how things have changed. It used to be that liberals were the ones that embraced whacky conspiracy theories: The CIA shot Kennedy, the moon landings were faked, Clinton was the victim of a "vast right wing conspiracy", 9/11 was an inside job, George Bush blew up the levees during Katrina. Those were promoted mostly by liberals.

Now things have flipped. Today it's the far right that has wrapped their arms around loony conspiracies: Covid is a hoax, Trump won the election, the Democrats are operating a pedophile ring.

I don't want to be too critical of trents as I would love to see him come in here and debate us, but I, too, was a little taken back when he started talking about various documents supporting freedom of choice yet he failed to use the most important document, the Constitution/Bill of Rights. There is nothing in the Constitution that prevents the government from mandating a vaccine, to the contrary, it's been mandated for over 100 years, in schools, the military, and various employers. And as far as religious exemptions go, they're not a valid reason, either. The only reason they're being used in this situation is that it makes them more palatable to the courts and easier to implement, a kinder, gentler approach. The Supreme Court ruled over 100 years ago that religious objections were not a valid reason for refusing a vaccine during a declared emergency.

So yeah, this Covid thing isn't going away. Since we can't get enough people inoculated, it's going to continue to mutate, we'll have to be getting booster shots every 6-12 months, hospitals will continue to see surges. We'll be fighting with ourselves over vaccine and mask wearing mandates for the foreseeable future.

[Aseahawkfan]

Over in another forum, I've been debating another poster over the JFK assassination and Oliver Stone's latest conspiracy venture when it occurred to me how things have changed. It used to be that liberals were the ones that embraced whacky conspiracy theories: The CIA shot Kennedy, the moon landings were faked, Clinton was the victim of a "vast right wing conspiracy", 9/11 was an inside job, George Bush blew up the levees during Katrina. Those were promoted mostly by liberals.

Now things have flipped. Today it's the far right that has wrapped their arms around loony conspiracies: Covid is a hoax, Trump won the election, the Democrats are operating a pedophile ring.

I don't want to be too critical of trents as I would love to see him come in here and debate us, but I, too, was a little taken back when he started talking about various documents supporting freedom of choice yet he failed to use the most important document, the Constitution/Bill of Rights. There is nothing in the Constitution that prevents the government from mandating a vaccine, to the contrary, it's been mandated for over 100 years, in schools, the military, and various employers. And as far as religious exemptions go, they're not a valid reason, either. The only reason they're being used in this situation is that it makes them more palatable to the courts and easier to implement, a kinder, gentler approach. The Supreme Court ruled over 100 years ago that religious objections were not a valid reason for refusing a vaccine during a declared emergency.

So yeah, this Covid thing isn't going away. Since we can't get enough people inoculated, it's going to continue to mutate, we'll have to be getting booster shots every 6-12 months, hospitals will continue to see surges. We'll be fighting with ourselves over vaccine and mask wearing mandates for the foreseeable future.

I don't think it's flipped. I know plenty of Democratic voters who still believe in conspiracy theories and were afraid to take the vaccine because corporations made it. Look at the minority communities who normally vote for Democrats who are resisting the vaccine. Butt he left wing press downplays the minority communities vaccine resistance because they are one of their voting blocs. The left wing press has an angle to attack the right with by making them appear as the whacky conspiracy nuts, so they're doing it. But the same old whacky left wing nuts believing in secret corporate evil, the CIA is terrible bad, and UFOs are real and have already landed are still there. They don't get as much play in the press as the ratings are currently great selling anti-vax conspiracy theories and either attacking or supporting Trump for ratings. Like I said in the other thread, we are a media manipulated group as a whole, all sides of the political aisle and the nooks and crannies too. In China they don't have enough free information, whereas in America we have too much so you can pick and choose who or what to believe like you're picking groceries in the grocery store.

Let's just say the left likes to hide their anti-vax conspiracy nuts because it would be bad for their vote count.

[RiverDog]

I don't think it's flipped. I know plenty of Democratic voters who still believe in conspiracy theories and were afraid to take the vaccine because corporations made it. Look at the minority communities who normally vote for Democrats who are resisting the vaccine. Butt he left wing press downplays the minority communities vaccine resistance because they are one of their voting blocs. The left wing press has an angle to attack the right with by making them appear as the whacky conspiracy nuts, so they're doing it. But the same old whacky left wing nuts believing in secret corporate evil, the CIA is terrible bad, and UFOs are real and have already landed are still there. They don't get as much play in the press as the ratings are currently great selling anti-vax conspiracy theories and either attacking or supporting Trump for ratings. Like I said in the other thread, we are a media manipulated group as a whole, all sides of the political aisle and the nooks and crannies too. In China they don't have enough free information, whereas in America we have too much so you can pick and choose who or what to believe like you're picking groceries in the grocery store.

Let's just say the left likes to hide their anti-vax conspiracy nuts because it would be bad for their vote count.

You have a good point about the minority community's anti vaxxers and the liberals not wanting to talk about them. But at least some of black American's concerns are somewhat understandable as they are rooted in the government's past abuses of them, such as in the Tuskegee experiments.

Personally, I think that, in general, that the common thread in all of the anti vaxxers is intelligence and/or education. People do not know how to process information, separate the wheat from the chaff, so they default to neutral, ie don't do anything.

But to the conspiracies...it's only been recently that the right has embraced these zany conspiracy theories. It used to be the private domain of liberals.

[Aseahawkfan]

You have a good point about the minority community's anti vaxxers and the liberals not wanting to talk about them. But at least some of black American's concerns are somewhat understandable as they are rooted in the government's past abuses of them, such as in the Tuskegee experiments.

Personally, I think that, in general, that the common thread in all of the anti vaxxers is intelligence and/or education. People do not know how to process information, separate the wheat from the chaff, so they default to neutral, ie don't do anything.

But to the conspiracies...it's only been recently that the right has embraced these zany conspiracy theories. It used to be the private domain of liberals.

The Tuskegee Experiments were decades ago.

The right wing conspiracy organizations have been around for a long time. Men like Rush Limbaugh built their career selling right wing nonsense for decades. The militias during the 90s were based on right wing conspiracy theory and that fueled an attack like the Oklahoma City bombing. The term Deep State have been pushed by the libertarian right for decades now. I've been listening to these loons for more than 30 years now.

Trump was the first candidate elected by the right conspiracy theory nuts that form the libertarian party. So maybe that is why it seems new to you. The right wing conspiracy nuts have been around for ages pushing things like The Great Replacement where minorities replace the white man as the dominant group, Democrats as socialists in league with other nations, and attacking even other Republicans for their globalist goals and ties that are selling America out for rule of the world. They been around a long time. Maybe you aren't used to the left wing press pushing these people to the forefront like they have done during Trump, but they were there before Trump won. It just rarely made it to the press because the Republican Party was good at hiding their loonies until it has reached the point where they are becoming a far bigger force in the Republican Party.

[RiverDog]

The Tuskegee Experiments were decades ago.

Oh, I agree that it's a nonsense excuse not to get the poke. I was just saying that they have a little more credible reason than some of these folks and their conspiracy theories. But they both boil down to the same thing: The inability to process information, separate the wheat from the chaff.

The right wing conspiracy organizations have been around for a long time. Men like Rush Limbaugh built their career selling right wing nonsense for decades. The militias during the 90s were based on right wing conspiracy theory and that fueled an attack like the Oklahoma City bombing. The term Deep State have been pushed by the libertarian right for decades now. I've been listening to these loons for more than 30 years now.

Trump was the first candidate elected by the right conspiracy theory nuts that form the libertarian party. So maybe that is why it seems new to you. The right wing conspiracy nuts have been around for ages pushing things like The Great Replacement where minorities replace the white man as the dominant group, Democrats as socialists in league with other nations, and attacking even other Republicans for their globalist goals and ties that are selling America out for rule of the world. They been around a long time. Maybe you aren't used to the left wing press pushing these people to the forefront like they have done during Trump, but they were there before Trump won. It just rarely made it to the press because the Republican Party was good at hiding their loonies until it has reached the point where they are becoming a far bigger force in the Republican Party.

But it's never been in the mainstream conservatives like it is now. There are more conservatives that believe in this crap than ever before. Some of that is due to Trump's stranglehold on them, but whatever it is, there's definitely a lot more lunatics promoting this nonsense than I can ever remember.

[Aseahawkfan]

But it's never been in the mainstream conservatives like it is now. There are more conservatives that believe in this crap than ever before. Some of that is due to Trump's stranglehold on them, but whatever it is, there's definitely a lot more lunatics promoting this nonsense than I can ever remember.

What do you think of Marjorie Taylor Greene?

[RiverDog]

But it's never been in the mainstream conservatives like it is now. There are more conservatives that believe in this crap than ever before. Some of that is due to Trump's stranglehold on them, but whatever it is, there's definitely a lot more lunatics promoting this nonsense than I can ever remember.

What do you think of Marjorie Taylor Greene?

You ought to ask Hawktalk what he thinks of her. He could come up with a lot more funnier superlatives than I can.

IMO she's a lunatic.

[Aseahawkfan]

You ought to ask Hawktalk what he thinks of her. He could come up with a lot more funnier superlatives than I can.

IMO she's a lunatic.

Yep. She's like the batsh**t crazy right wing version of Cortez, but not as attractive. Not even sure how she managed to win an election. Her district must be filled with loons who buy into her conservative vision.

[NorthHawk]

Didn’t the Democratic candidate drop out leaving her uncontested?

[Aseahawkfan]

Didn’t the Democratic candidate drop out leaving her uncontested?

Maybe. I don't know. Maybe the Democrat candidate dropped out because she knew she would be killed if she won given the loons who must have supported that woman.

[RiverDog]

Didn’t the Democratic candidate drop out leaving her uncontested?

Yeah, he did, but it is a very red district, so he was a longshot anyway.

[Hawktawk]

I’ve received word my 62 year old friend and co worker who was my source of infection and not vaccinated will be removed from the ventilator today and almost certainly die . I can’t even wrap my head around it .