Kyle Rittenhouse

[c_hawkbob]

Evidently shooting rioters is ok, shooting joggers is not yet (even if they do have long dirty toenails).

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

More like it isn’t okay to attempt a citizens’ arrest by grabbing guns and jumping in your truck to chase down an unarmed “suspect” (I.e. no proof he did anything wrong) to the point of exhaustion and cornering him. The very definition of creating a dangerous situation.

[Aseahawkfan]

Glad the Arbery case went as it did. It was pretty obviously racially motivated with a sheriff's department that tried to cover it up and sweep it under the rug. Such citizen's arrests should not be allowed.

[Aseahawkfan]

Proud boys etc etc etc are white nationalists which is not a far stretch from white supremacists. They aren't anti riot. They are anti N word riot. Out in force with their WRs and their trumptard flags every time police shoot a black man, rightly or wrongly.

The riot on Jan 6 to overturn our elections? they were leading it. Zero credibility. If this little murderer wants to split hairs and demand apologies when he's hanging out with people like this he's looking like a bigger fool all the time. Apparently he was at Mara Lago yesterday unless trump is such a starving attention Wh@re he made it up. Little right wing icon that got away with murdering at least one person and he is whining that he has had his character impugned. As for supporting rioters you keep talking like RD and I do and weve made clear we dont . We don't support looters. We dont support defending the police. YOU DONT ACNOWLEDGE PROBLEMS WITH POLICE THOUGH. Never.

No. I don't. The police are fine. Some bad applies in the police are just bad apples. I know a lot of police officers and have a cousin who is a police officer. The number of cops engaged in bad behavior is extremely small. The Democrats and leftists going after the police have no ground to stand on. The police as an organization are protective of American society. A few bad cops doesn't ruin the entire police force. The Democrats and leftists pillory the police because they want to cut their funding, not because they want real change.

Cops in general are a bunch of guys who spend most of their time doing very mundane patrols of neighborhoods, traffic stops, and the like. Sometimes a cop does something heroic or extraordinary putting his life on the line to help people. Sometimes they engage in incompetence or abuse their power which leads to the deaths and other types of harm.

But there are in no way the evil organization that some Democrats paint them as or that minorities paint them as. So no, you don't see me down on the police as a whole. Down on inhumane cops like Chauvin, sure. Chauvin was in the wrong. Down on the police as a whole. Not even a little bit. Cops are just people to me doing a job. The majority of their job is extremely boring and mundane.

When the left decides to take some cop and paint it as a white cop killing a black man situation and then pillory the entire police force as racist, then I view that media outlet and those individuals as a bunch of liars with agendas.

It's always going to come down the individual situation. I'm never going to get sucked into the BS that people do who don't bother to research past what they're told on the news. Exactly why I don't see the Proud Boys or Antifa like the news portrays them. Proud Boys are hardly organized. And they weren't leading the January 6th riots. No one was leading the January 6th riot or it would have been a whole lot worse than it was. The January 6th riot was a bunch of people who bought into Trump's BS lies about the election, got wound up to do something about it, then rioted. As far as insurrections go, it wasn't very organized or very effective.

Sorry, I don't get sucked in or wound up over media and political lies. I want no part of them and their bad governance for this nation.

[Hawktawk]

So he missed a man’s chest at close range? Broadest target in the human body and in the one instance he had time to aim? I don’t know man; it’s an argument, for sure, but very hard to reconcile.

he discharged 7 rounds total. sprayed bullets at 3 targets. I dont think he should have been anywhere near a cork gun just based on my viewing of the little dummy with his hat on backwards finger on the trigger of an AR as he's walking down the street almost certainly with the safety off. That dude was EXPECTING ACTION. He should have been convicted of something and done some time. He got a gift of millions in defense funds from white nationalists among others so his defense was first class. He got a terrible prosecuting attorney. There's a reason the best attorneys are in private practice. He got away with murder IMO and he just visited Mara Lago. F him and anyone who wants to glorify him. Keep your head on a swivel dummy.

[Hawktawk]

No. I don't. The police are fine. Some bad applies in the police are just bad apples. I know a lot of police officers and have a cousin who is a police officer. The number of cops engaged in bad behavior is extremely small. The Democrats and leftists going after the police have no ground to stand on. The police as an organization are protective of American society. A few bad cops doesn't ruin the entire police force. The Democrats and leftists pillory the police because they want to cut their funding, not because they want real change.

Cops in general are a bunch of guys who spend most of their time doing very mundane patrols of neighborhoods, traffic stops, and the like. Sometimes a cop does something heroic or extraordinary putting his life on the line to help people. Sometimes they engage in incompetence or abuse their power which leads to the deaths and other types of harm.

But there are in no way the evil organization that some Democrats paint them as or that minorities paint them as. So no, you don't see me down on the police as a whole. Down on inhumane cops like Chauvin, sure. Chauvin was in the wrong.

And there it is "very small" amount" of Cops engage in bad behavior. Id agree most dont in most jurisdictions. I understand most people only interact with a police officer when they are suspected of wrongdoing. Ill also say I think about 8 of every 10 high profile white cop shoots back perp are legit actions by a police office to defend himself and others. Big Mike Brown of the "hands up dont shoot" was a thug who would have disarmed officer Wilson and killed him with his own gun and Al Sharpton preached at his funeral. Many other examples, Alton Sterling in Louisiana who was a felon in physical possession of a firearm when resisting arrest and wrestling police. So I get it. I see the Blake guy somewhere in the middle, justified but was there another way? could all those cops not get cuffs on him? more of a training and investigation and learning opportunity in my mind than anything the cop did wrong.

But lets look at Chauvin in Minneapolis and this is the cancerous underbelly in that city's PD of thousands. Chauvin was a veteran officer with 18 previous complaints of excessive force. One was punching a black 17 year old in the face so hard he broke bones and split the skin, then kneeling on his neck for 17 minutes while he was cuffed. Had he not been "cleared" in the incident that was several years earlier Floyd would be alive. And dig a little deeper. Chauvin was the lead officer TRAINING half a dozen officers in their first week on the job. These people had barely found their lockers and they are charged with murder. I think Minneapolis is a little closer to rotten barrel. There are other examples, people I know, my own experience. Maybe not so much racist as just good old fashioned police brutality and dishonesty which I think is more prevalent than racial bias. I was stupid enough to drink and drive a few years back. Someone called me in as my wife was swaying while walking to the truck. I was a fool to do it and it changed my life for the better but I was compliant, honest .calm.
I was cuffed and before transport another sheriff cranked them down so far I had no circulation in my left hand. I immediately told him they were too tight and he laughed at me and walked away. My hand was numb for 4 months. Other issues such as dash cam footage proving the officer was flat out lying about numerous things. I ultimately pled guilty and accepted the responsibly for my actions but I'm definitely white and the cops were all white. But they aren't pure as the driven snow either.
I personally know 2 officers, one a state trooper and one MLPD who have admitted things like rough rides, slamming unsecured passengers off the protective screen if they are belligerent. I know of a park ranger who would pull over cars without probable cause and arrest them for DUI based on what another officer who worked with him told me. I have a retired WSP friend who flat out admitted he likes Fing with Mexicans, profiling them, pulling them over. In an area that probably 30% Hispanic that's a problem.
Asea I wouldnt want the job frankly and I'm thankful for the millions of good men and women who will. But police misconduct goes beyond a bad apple or 2. But when the left overreaches and overreacts and puts on the tinfoil hats and the loonies take the cue to burn down the downtown nothings ever gonna change, quite the opposite.

[RiverDog]

No. I don't. The police are fine. Some bad applies in the police are just bad apples. I know a lot of police officers and have a cousin who is a police officer. The number of cops engaged in bad behavior is extremely small. The Democrats and leftists going after the police have no ground to stand on. The police as an organization are protective of American society. A few bad cops doesn't ruin the entire police force. The Democrats and leftists pillory the police because they want to cut their funding, not because they want real change.

There are over 900,000 full time law enforcement employees nation wide. New York City alone has over 36,000 full time police officers. I would challenge anyone to find an occupation, whether it be teachers, clergymen, lawyers, politicians, military officers, insurance salesmen, or even judges, and apply the same standards to that group as some are expecting out of law enforcement and show better results.

That doesn't mean that we have to accept racist cops or bad police work, but it does demonstrate the enormity of the challenge. So long as we're having to draw police officers from members of the human race, we will NEVER come anywhere close to the expectations that some in this country are insisting on. We certainly aren't going to improve it by defunding the police or creating an environment in police departments that results in low morale and a high turnover as some departments are experiencing.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="RiverDog"

There are over 900,000 full time law enforcement employees nation wide. New York City alone has over 36,000 full time police officers. I would challenge anyone to find an occupation, whether it be teachers, clergymen, lawyers, politicians, military officers, insurance salesmen, or even judges, and apply the same standards to that group as some are expecting out of law enforcement and show better results.

That doesn't mean that we have to accept racist cops or bad police work, but it does demonstrate the enormity of the challenge. So long as we're having to draw police officers from members of the human race, we will NEVER come anywhere close to the expectations that some in this country are insisting on. We certainly aren't going to improve it by defunding the police or creating an environment in police departments that results in low morale and a high turnover as some departments are experiencing.[/quote]


Well maybe we can at least dispense with the 99.9% good theory then. I'm going 80 -20 if its anything like any other profession and it is. It should be a little higher priority to pay more and get better trained more qualified candidates and training as opposed to defunding the police. And of course its not eliminating the police force but just the dumbass democrats and their ridiculous stupid labels designed to frighten normal americans. I see it like an airline pilot. When other peoples lives depend on how you do your job, You have a weapon that will take a life in a second you better be damn good.

Chauvin revealed a major systemic problem in the Minneapolis police force. It wasn't until he killed Floyd that the general public was made aware of his rap sheet of brutality and he's a training officer. Law enforcement often accepts, protects and promotes violent or racist officers. I believe it was baltimore where an independent investigation found HUNDREDS of cops were found to be using a far right chat line with racial slurs and demeaning content to blacks. 2 cops were captured on tape laughing at a mentally ill nude man who they had placed a hood on to stop him from expelling spit on them as he declined and eventually died. The PD covered it up until it was uncovered in an independent investigation months later.

Its more than a few bad apples. But when one side burns stuff down and the other says were perfect nothing needs to change nothings gonna change and we will be right back here over and over.

[RiverDog]

Well maybe we can at least dispense with the 99.9% good theory then. I'm going 80 -20 if its anything like any other profession and it is. It should be a little higher priority to pay more and get better trained more qualified candidates and training as opposed to defunding the police. And of course its not eliminating the police force but just the dumbass democrats and their ridiculous stupid labels designed to frighten normal americans. I see it like an airline pilot. When other peoples lives depend on how you do your job, You have a weapon that will take a life in a second you better be damn good.

Well, I fall somewhere in-between 99.9% and 80%. If I had to guess, I'd say that it's somewhere like 1 out of 20 overall. I know that some police forces are very good and would come close to 99%. I don't know what it's like today, but it used to be that the WSP was the cream of the crop as far as law enforcement in this state goes. But some little po-dunk down like Republic with that moon bat sheriff of theirs, then it's likely a little higher, and I would guess that there's still some PD's in the south that have more than their fair share of bad apples.

You're preaching to the choir regarding pay and training. The Defund the Police movement has it entirely wrong. If we're truly serious about improving the quality of our policemen, then we need to increase the number of applicants, and especially in today's very tight labor market, they have to offer very competitive wages and benefits if they want to do a better job of procurement. Otherwise, we'll end up with a bunch of ego driven Officer Tackleberrys that think their gun is an extension of their male anatomy.

Chauvin revealed a major systemic problem in the Minneapolis police force. It wasn't until he killed Floyd that the general public was made aware of his rap sheet of brutality and he's a training officer. Law enforcement often accepts, protects and promotes violent or racist officers. I believe it was baltimore where an independent investigation found HUNDREDS of cops were found to be using a far right chat line with racial slurs and demeaning content to blacks. 2 cops were captured on tape laughing at a mentally ill nude man who they had placed a hood on to stop him from expelling spit on them as he declined and eventually died. The PD covered it up until it was uncovered in an independent investigation months later.

Its more than a few bad apples. But when one side burns stuff down and the other says were perfect nothing needs to change nothings gonna change and we will be right back here over and over.

I think that's a fair assessment. There's no doubt that the Floyd murder was a wake up call for police departments, that they need to clean up their acts. But it gets us back to the pay issue. Police departments are going to be afraid to get tough on their cops if they're having trouble recruiting officers.

[Aseahawkfan]

And there it is "very small" amount" of Cops engage in bad behavior. Id agree most dont in most jurisdictions. I understand most people only interact with a police officer when they are suspected of wrongdoing. Ill also say I think about 8 of every 10 high profile white cop shoots back perp are legit actions by a police office to defend himself and others. Big Mike Brown of the "hands up dont shoot" was a thug who would have disarmed officer Wilson and killed him with his own gun and Al Sharpton preached at his funeral. Many other examples, Alton Sterling in Louisiana who was a felon in physical possession of a firearm when resisting arrest and wrestling police. So I get it. I see the Blake guy somewhere in the middle, justified but was there another way? could all those cops not get cuffs on him? more of a training and investigation and learning opportunity in my mind than anything the cop did wrong.

But lets look at Chauvin in Minneapolis and this is the cancerous underbelly in that city's PD of thousands. Chauvin was a veteran officer with 18 previous complaints of excessive force. One was punching a black 17 year old in the face so hard he broke bones and split the skin, then kneeling on his neck for 17 minutes while he was cuffed. Had he not been "cleared" in the incident that was several years earlier Floyd would be alive. And dig a little deeper. Chauvin was the lead officer TRAINING half a dozen officers in their first week on the job. These people had barely found their lockers and they are charged with murder. I think Minneapolis is a little closer to rotten barrel. There are other examples, people I know, my own experience. Maybe not so much racist as just good old fashioned police brutality and dishonesty which I think is more prevalent than racial bias. I was stupid enough to drink and drive a few years back. Someone called me in as my wife was swaying while walking to the truck. I was a fool to do it and it changed my life for the better but I was compliant, honest .calm.
I was cuffed and before transport another sheriff cranked them down so far I had no circulation in my left hand. I immediately told him they were too tight and he laughed at me and walked away. My hand was numb for 4 months. Other issues such as dash cam footage proving the officer was flat out lying about numerous things. I ultimately pled guilty and accepted the responsibly for my actions but I'm definitely white and the cops were all white. But they aren't pure as the driven snow either.
I personally know 2 officers, one a state trooper and one MLPD who have admitted things like rough rides, slamming unsecured passengers off the protective screen if they are belligerent. I know of a park ranger who would pull over cars without probable cause and arrest them for DUI based on what another officer who worked with him told me. I have a retired WSP friend who flat out admitted he likes Fing with Mexicans, profiling them, pulling them over. In an area that probably 30% Hispanic that's a problem.
Asea I wouldnt want the job frankly and I'm thankful for the millions of good men and women who will. But police misconduct goes beyond a bad apple or 2. But when the left overreaches and overreacts and puts on the tinfoil hats and the loonies take the cue to burn down the downtown nothings ever gonna change, quite the opposite.

Chauvin was an inhumane man who abused his power and lacked a sense of empathy. And he was the lead officer who was leading the other officers. Even when one of the other officers showed concerned, he dismissed that officer damning them all. Chauvin was setting a terrible example and I'm glad he received prison. When you're in a position of leadership and that is the example you set, you need to be punished.

The Rodney King cops were in the wrong. Watching that video was hard to stomach seeing those two cops go crazy on Rodney King while all the other cops watched not stepping in to assist end the situation. Total apathy. It was ridiculous.

The cop that shot the Native American man in Seattle was an incompetent idiot who went from zero to 100 way too quickly. That case was more local than national. I know why it didn't get much national attention because it didn't involve a person of African descent. Those are the only cases that tend to go national. But that case was also a seriously incompetent cop exercising unnecessary violent power and creating a dangerous situation.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2010/sep/24/shoppers-recount-police-shooting-outside-costco/ Erik Scott's killing in 2010 was also incompetence. But once again he wasn't the right "race" to garner national attention. The left and Democrats only make an issue of police killings if it allows them fearmonger their voting base of African ancestry, otherwise it doesn't matter to them.

I tend to keep with more police killings than what is nationally televised. And suffice it to say the racial narrative is done by the Democrats and leftists to keep people of African descent believing in evil, racist cops populating police departments all over America that only hurt or harm people of African descent on purpose for racist reasons. To anyone that actually follows what's going on with the police, you find that cops kill people more often than that and people other than people of African descent often for reasons of incompetence and fear on their part. But the Republicans won't broadcast that because cops are one of their voting blocs and Democrats won't broadcast that because it won't keep people of African descent scared of the police and voting for them.

Changing America is going to require Americans to wake up from the media induced psychosis these two parties push and start pushing for a more honest media that tells the entire story, not just he one that fearmongers for votes.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah I can accept all this . But the demonization and politicization is on both sides watching the character assassination of people like Floyd to deflect from the awfulness of the act . Right wing media and racist hearts among even some of my friends literally blame even Floyd for his death .parading Rittenhouse around , that airhead Jewish space laser idiot Margorie Taylor Green wants to give him a medal of freedom . No
Middle ground and that’s a bipartisan problem just like everything else

[I-5]

I'm late to this post and this point has probably been discussed, but to me it's not a question of 90/10, 80/20, or 99/1 when you're talking about bad apples...it's the willingness of the system to protect and cover for those that they know are problematic. And is there really such a thing as an internal investigation that doesn't have a conflict of interest?

[RiverDog]

I'm late to this post and this point has probably been discussed, but to me it's not a question of 90/10, 80/20, or 99/1 when you're talking about bad apples...it's the willingness of the system to protect and cover for those that they know are problematic. And is there really such a thing as an internal investigation that doesn't have a conflict of interest?

In this state, we do have a process in officer shootings where the officer is put on paid leave until an investigating committee is assembled that is composed of other LE agencies from outside of the immediate area to determine if the shooting was justified, so that helps to some degree. The problem is that you need police to investigate police, as they're the only ones that are familiar enough with good policing practices to be able to perform a thorough, impartial investigation. You wouldn't want an office secretary to check up on the work of an electrician or a plumber to pass judgement on a dentist. You can't just give it to a group of ad hoc citizens as some want to do.

[I-5]

In this state, we do have a process in officer shootings where the officer is put on paid leave until an investigating committee is assembled that is composed of other LE agencies from outside of the immediate area to determine if the shooting was justified, so that helps to some degree. The problem is that you need police to investigate police, as they're the only ones that are familiar enough with good policing practices to be able to perform a thorough, impartial investigation. You wouldn't want an office secretary to check up on the work of an electrician or a plumber to pass judgement on a dentist. You can't just give it to a group of ad hoc citizens as some want to do.

And do you not see any conflict of interest there at all? What makes you believe they would be impartial? Not to be a cynic, but my instincts tell me otherwise. The only way I'd be ok with police investigating the police is if it's the FBI. Would you want SPD investigating SPD in a case against you?

[RiverDog]

In this state, we do have a process in officer shootings where the officer is put on paid leave until an investigating committee is assembled that is composed of other LE agencies from outside of the immediate area to determine if the shooting was justified, so that helps to some degree. The problem is that you need police to investigate police, as they're the only ones that are familiar enough with good policing practices to be able to perform a thorough, impartial investigation. You wouldn't want an office secretary to check up on the work of an electrician or a plumber to pass judgement on a dentist. You can't just give it to a group of ad hoc citizens as some want to do.

And do you not see any conflict of interest there at all? What makes you believe they would be impartial? Not to be a cynic, but my instincts tell me otherwise. The only way I'd be ok with police investigating the police is if it's the FBI. Would you want SPD investigating SPD in a case against you?

The SPD doesn't investigate the SPD. It might be turned over to officers comprised of the WSP, the Grant County Sherrif's office, and the Bellingham PD, although to be honest, I don't know how far away from the local department they go, only that the members aren't drawn from within the same department.

Ideally, I would like the FBI to at least be a participant, but with 800,000 active duty cops and thousands of officer involved shootings daily, I can't see where that would be a practical idea.

And yes, I do see potential conflicts of interest just as I'd see a possible conflict of interest in airline pilots conducting an investigation into other airline pilots or the Army investigating the Marine Corps. I just don't see any other way to do it.

[I-5]

Ideally, I would like the FBI to at least be a participant, but with 800,000 active duty cops and thousands of officer involved shootings daily, I can't see where that would be a practical idea.

And yes, I do see potential conflicts of interest just as I'd see a possible conflict of interest in airline pilots conducting an investigation into other airline pilots or the Army investigating the Marine Corps. I just don't see any other way to do it.

It looks like we both agree the FBI would lend credibilty to an investigation of wrongdoing by a police department. Obviously, they wouldn't be able to handle EVERY case, but for certain cases, it makes sense to have them. It would give me more confidence than a neighbouring police dept investigating.

[RiverDog]

Ideally, I would like the FBI to at least be a participant, but with 800,000 active duty cops and thousands of officer involved shootings daily, I can't see where that would be a practical idea.

And yes, I do see potential conflicts of interest just as I'd see a possible conflict of interest in airline pilots conducting an investigation into other airline pilots or the Army investigating the Marine Corps. I just don't see any other way to do it.

It looks like we both agree the FBI would lend credibilty to an investigation of wrongdoing by a police department. Obviously, they wouldn't be able to handle EVERY case, but for certain cases, it makes sense to have them. It would give me more confidence than a neighbouring police dept investigating.

It might lend some credibility in our eyes, but I'm not sure how much more credible the FBI is than other LE agencies in other people's eyes.

Laws and procedures vary from state to state, so it might not be such a good idea getting an agency that's unfamiliar with the individual states to sit in judgement. They also wouldn't be very familiar with past precedents.

I feel that what we have here in WA is a very good system, getting LE from different departments conduct an investigation so long as they're drawn from different areas of the state so as to ensure that they don't know each other. Maybe have the names of the participating department pulled out of a hat in order to reinforce the concept that they're not stacking the deck.

[I-5]

We might have to take a poll, but in my eyes the FBI is FAR more credible. Have they done anything in recent memory to question their credibility?

[RiverDog]

We might have to take a poll, but in my eyes the FBI is FAR more credible. Have they done anything in recent memory to question their credibility?

Not in my eyes, but there's a lot of people out there that have no love for the federal government.

But the major problem would be their unfamiliarity with state and local laws/procedures. For example, in this state, they just instituted a slew of laws that restricts what police can do:

A dozen bills signed by Gov. Jay Inslee in May took effect Sunday in an effort to fight racial justice and hold officers accountable when using excessive force.

Among the new laws is House Bill 1054, which is raising concern among law enforcement. HB 1054 limits the use of tear gas, bans the use of chokeholds and neck restraints and restricts vehicle pursuits to only when police officers have probable cause.

https://www.king5.com/article/news/poli ... aebbb7a1cd

A dozen new bills. How can an outsider like the FBI keep up with changes in methods from state to state?

[Hawktawk]

The law is stupid but doesn't any cop anywhere have authority to pull over any speeding car? If the car runs its probable cause they are disobeying a police officer. I dont know about a lot of the rest. I know there have been restrictions on urban pursuit for years. Clearly the law is a huge overreach but I think cops are grandstanding a bit to get it changed. Don't blame them but they are.

In other news choirboy Rittenhouse now announces he wants to destroy his AR 15 and wants nothing to do with it. The burnishing of the image continues. Id point out he had about 18 months to do that.

[RiverDog]

The law is stupid but doesn't any cop anywhere have authority to pull over any speeding car? If the car runs its probable cause they are disobeying a police officer. I dont know about a lot of the rest. I know there have been restrictions on urban pursuit for years. Clearly the law is a huge overreach but I think cops are grandstanding a bit to get it changed. Don't blame them but they are.

In other news choirboy Rittenhouse now announces he wants to destroy his AR 15 and wants nothing to do with it. The burnishing of the image continues. Id point out he had about 18 months to do that.

I saw the deal about Rittenhouse wanting to destroy his rifle and wondered why he just doesn't re-sell it as it could fetch at least a 5 digit price.

Personally I don't see the need for all these new policing laws passed by our liberal state government and done so without a public vote. It's always been the policy that police break off a pursuit if the cops themselves are presenting a danger to the public, and I know of no incident that might have caused them to take a deeper look at the subject. IMO if anyone is grandstanding, it's our governor.

[Aseahawkfan]

I thought Washington State had a group that investigated the police made up of a civilian group that provides oversight to police incompetence and such. The problem isn't usually the investigation as it is the union who is bound by their contract to support a police officer in need and defend them against any charges using available police procedure and legal precedents. They are usually very successful because they have to prove the officer did what they did due to malicious criminal intent to prove criminal charges. They usually prove incompetence and fire the officer with some kind of payout to the wronged individual depending on the degree of incompetence.

[RiverDog]

I thought Washington State had a group that investigated the police made up of a civilian group that provides oversight to police incompetence and such. The problem isn't usually the investigation as it is the union who is bound by their contract to support a police officer in need and defend them against any charges using available police procedure and legal precedents. They are usually very successful because they have to prove the officer did what they did due to malicious criminal intent to prove criminal charges. They usually prove incompetence and fire the officer with some kind of payout to the wronged individual depending on the degree of incompetence.

I think this is the law that is currently in effect:

The proposed rules drastically change how police respond to and investigate officer-involved uses of deadly force, setting up between 12 and 15 regional Independent Investigative Teams (IIT) composed of detectives from surrounding agencies. The team would respond to a deadly force incident and take over the scene from the agency involved, which would be excluded from the investigation. Rahr made it clear that these are criminal investigations and completely separate from any internal review the department might conduct.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-ne ... ll-change/

We've had some recent police shootings here locally and they've followed this procedure.

My only problem with that law is that they should probably select their detectives from outside a 50 mile radius of the department involved so as to reduce the likelihood of the cops knowing each other. You might want to toss in a prosecuting attorney or someone with a good knowledge of the law and accepted practices, but I'm not good with bringing into the process ordinary citizens except as observers.