Midterm Elections

[RiverDog]

It's looking like the R's will flip the House. NBC has projected that the Republicans will win 220 seats and the Dems 215, saying that they are "99.5% confident of their prediction." Kevin McCarthy has already declared victory. CNN and Fox are being more conservative. Both have the R's ahead by 199 to 178/172. The Senate is still too close to call, with races in AZ, GA, WI, and NV undecided. NV and WI are trending red. AZ is leaning blue. GA has a law that requires a 50+1 percent majority so there's likely going to be a head-to-head run off, so we may not find out who wins the Senate for another month or so. Dr. Oz has lost; Ron DeSantis is winning his election in Florida by a huge margin of almost 20 points in a formerly purple state (remember 2000?) that has to be considered solidly red. DeSantis' win likely put him to the head of the pack for POTUS in 2024. We'll see if he makes a clean break from Trump. PA is turning bluer. So, the map is changing somewhat.

It's definitely not going to be the big red wave that a lot of the talking heads were predicting, but even if they don't win the Senate, flipping the House would be a big deal for the R's. For one, it sends Nancy Pelosi to the sidelines. But it won't be a huge governing majority that they'll need to open up a bunch of investigations on Biden as the Dems had feared. And one has to keep in mind that the Dems held a significant mathematical advantage in the Senate, having to defend far fewer seats than the R's, so they should have had no problem maintaining control.

Bottom line is that the R's are likely to come out winners. If they hold onto their lead in the House, it will be a significant win. If they succeed in flipping the Senate, it will be a huge win.

[I-5]

Cruz: "I think this is going to be, not just a red wave, but a red tsunami."

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/potential-red-wave-turns-trickle-disappointing-midterm-elections-republicans

The party that wins the White House usually faces rebuke in the midterms, but it wasn't the tsunami some predicted. Even Fox can't hide their disappointment. We'll see what happens in Georgia. It's crazy that someone that unqualified can be voted in.

[Stream Hawk]

It's looking like the R's will flip the House. NBC has projected that the Republicans will win 220 seats and the Dems 215, saying that they are "99.5% confident of their prediction." Kevin McCarthy has already declared victory. CNN and Fox are being more conservative. Both have the R's ahead by 199 to 178/172. The Senate is still too close to call, with races in AZ, GA, WI, and NV undecided. NV and WI are trending red. AZ is leaning blue. GA has a law that requires a 50+1 percent majority so there's likely going to be a head-to-head run off, so we may not find out who wins the Senate for another month or so. Dr. Oz has lost; Ron DeSantis is winning his election in Florida by a huge margin of almost 20 points in a formerly purple state (remember 2000?) that has to be considered solidly red. DeSantis' win likely put him to the head of the pack for POTUS in 2024. We'll see if he makes a clean break from Trump. PA is turning bluer. So, the map is changing somewhat.

It's definitely not going to be the big red wave that a lot of the talking heads were predicting, but even if they don't win the Senate, flipping the House would be a big deal for the R's. For one, it sends Nancy Pelosi to the sidelines. But it won't be a huge governing majority that they'll need to open up a bunch of investigations on Biden as the Dems had feared. And one has to keep in mind that the Dems held a significant mathematical advantage in the Senate, having to defend far fewer seats than the R's, so they should have had no problem maintaining control.

Bottom line is that the R's are likely to come out winners. If they hold onto their lead in the House, it will be a significant win. If they succeed in flipping the Senate, it will be a huge win.

While it’s not over in the house, I’m willing to accept a tiny R majority there. Looking like clueless Boebert is going down (hehe). I think Dems will win the Senate.

What is this investigation you mention regarding Biden? Biden has nothing to hide. Are you talking hunters laptop lol. Dems are not afraid. It also appears that Trump has lost any sort of leverage. He is done.

[c_hawkbob]

Not near the bloodbath I was prepared to wake up to. I fully expected R control of both the House and the Senate, as well as constitutional amendments at the state level (Kentucky) that 1, wrested power from the Dem Gov. and 2, codified a no exception abortion ban.

But I'm seeing probable D control of the Senate to remain, both state amendments defeated and best of all, Trump's most hyped hand picked candidates failing miserably. Not a bad mid-term at all.

This is rich:

Still more reports are coming in about former President Donald Trump's angry reactions to seeing some of his hand-picked candidates face defeat during Tuesday's midterm elections.

The New York Times' Maggie Haberman chimed in on Twitter with her own dispatch that claimed the twice-impeached former president is now even blaming former first lady Melania Trump for some of his own poor endorsements.

"Trump is indeed furious this morning, particularly about Mehmet Oz, and is blaming everyone who advised him to back Oz -- including his wife, describing it as not her best decision, according to people close to him," Haberman writes.

Haberman also reports that the losses of Trump-backed candidates such as Oz and Don Bolduc may impact his decision to announce his third presidential campaign next week.

[Aseahawkfan]

I like a divided Congress.

And Trump already taking shots at DeSantis not to run, threatening him. We'll see what he does.

[RiverDog]

This is rich:

"Still more reports are coming in about former President Donald Trump's angry reactions to seeing some of his hand-picked candidates face defeat during Tuesday's midterm elections.

The New York Times' Maggie Haberman chimed in on Twitter with her own dispatch that claimed the twice-impeached former president is now even blaming former first lady Melania Trump for some of his own poor endorsements.

"Trump is indeed furious this morning, particularly about Mehmet Oz, and is blaming everyone who advised him to back Oz -- including his wife, describing it as not her best decision, according to people close to him," Haberman writes.

Haberman also reports that the losses of Trump-backed candidates such as Oz and Don Bolduc may impact his decision to announce his third presidential campaign next week."

I hadn't seen that quote, but I was aware that Trump-endorsed candidates weren't doing well, which is a mild but welcome surprise. Now that DeSantis is a huge winner in Florida it will be interesting if he makes a clean split from Trump and challenges him for the 2024 nomination.

I never expected the Senate to flip as the R's were having to defend 21 seats while the Dems only had to defend 14. I did expect the House to turn red, but by a larger margin than what appears likely. Once again, Georgia looks to decide control of the Senate as it looks like they'll have a run off, and if the D wins, it will remain a 50/50 split, but if that old bulldog wins, the R's will re-gain control.

[RiverDog]

What is this investigation you mention regarding Biden? Biden has nothing to hide. Are you talking hunters laptop lol. Dems are not afraid. It also appears that Trump has lost any sort of leverage. He is done.

Hunter Biden, for sure, but there's also other stuff, like the failure to control the southern border, the politicization of the DOJ, and the pull out in Afghanistan are all topics that one person or another have talked about as possible impeachment charges.

Here's an interesting quote from Al Franken:

Comedian and former Democratic Congressman Al Franken said he was worried that Republicans would investigate Crackhead Hunter Biden and impeach President Brain-Dead Biden if they took control of Congress in the midterm elections.

And from Jim Jordan:

In March, top Republican Representative Jim Jordan of Ohio said that Republican leaders would consider impeaching Biden, if they gained control of Congress, over the president’s “failures in office, most notably his administration’s inability to stop a massive influx of illegal immigration through the southern border.”

A poll in May also found that almost 70% of registered Republican voters said that Biden should be impeached if Republicans take control of Congress.

I'm not saying that any of those potential charges are legitimate and now that they won't have a substantial majority in the House, they're not going to get any of them approved by the full House. But I promise you, they will open at least a couple of investigations, the most likely being Hunter Biden.

[I-5]

Hunter Biden, for sure, but there's also other stuff, like the failure to control the southern border, the politicization of the DOJ, and the pull out in Afghanistan are all topics that one person or another have talked about as possible impeachment charges.

Here's an interesting quote from Al Franken:

Comedian and former Democratic Congressman Al Franken said he was worried that Republicans would investigate Crackhead Hunter Biden and impeach President Brain-Dead Biden if they took control of Congress in the midterm elections.

And from Jim Jordan:

In March, top Republican Representative Jim Jordan of Ohio said that Republican leaders would consider impeaching Biden, if they gained control of Congress, over the president’s “failures in office, most notably his administration’s inability to stop a massive influx of illegal immigration through the southern border.”

A poll in May also found that almost 70% of registered Republican voters said that Biden should be impeached if Republicans take control of Congress.

I'm not saying that any of those potential charges are legitimate and now that they won't have a substantial majority in the House, they're not going to get any of them approved by the full House. But I promise you, they will open at least a couple of investigations, the most likely being Hunter Biden.

Hunter Biden and Jim Jordan? The former isn't a member of the administration, and the latter's accusations are typical rhetoric at best. Trump could have been impeached many more times if we went by pure rhetoric.

[RiverDog]

Hunter Biden and Jim Jordan? The former isn't a member of the administration, and the latter's accusations are typical rhetoric at best. Trump could have been impeached many more times if we went by pure rhetoric.

I'm not sure what your point is. The only standard for impeachment is "bribery, treason, and other high crimes and misdemeanors", meaning that they could impeach Biden for spitting on the sidewalk if the House were to consider it a "high crime or misdemeanor."

[Hawktawk]

Mmmm. Lowering the bar a bit aren’t we ?
This is rich . A very poor president with a struggling agenda , a bad economy , inflation off the hook and they will hold serve.
because my former party had their head so far up their ass they needed a windshield wiper on their belly button to see where they are going. Embracing this election losing whining excuse making absolute piece of human excrement for his wretched endorsement . MAGA my ass. He ruined America . He sure as hell ruined my former party He did far more damage then Biden ever will . But if hes losing influence maybe there is hope for my party. For America .

[Stream Hawk]

Your “former” party is a freaking s*** show. The reason nothing is getting accomplished right now is because of the bat s*** crazy GQP. I never once voted Republican in my life never. However now I will never trust/respect anyone who votes Republican during these times.

[I-5]

I'm not sure what your point is. The only standard for impeachment is "bribery, treason, and other high crimes and misdemeanors", meaning that they could impeach Biden for spitting on the sidewalk if the House were to consider it a "high crime or misdemeanor."

The point is they have nothing on Biden.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure what your point is. The only standard for impeachment is "bribery, treason, and other high crimes and misdemeanors", meaning that they could impeach Biden for spitting on the sidewalk if the House were to consider it a "high crime or misdemeanor."

The point is they have nothing on Biden.

But that fact means nothing. It isn't going to stop the R's from impeaching him. All you need is a simple majority of the House to agree that Biden is guilty of "treason, bribery, or a high crimes/misdemeanor" in order to impeach a POTUS.

And it certainly isn't going to stop them from setting up various committees to air out some of Biden's dirty laundry...and there's always dirty laundry...on various potential issues, like Hunter Biden, Afghanistan, the DOJ, the southern border, et al. It doesn't necessarily require an impeachment inquiry. The only thing that's going to stop them is that they won't have a governing majority in the House or the Senate. They will stop Biden's agenda, but they're not going to be able to advance very much of their own. Say hello to gridlock, and IMO that's not necessarily a bad thing.

As expected, the economy/inflation was by far the biggest issue cited by voters, pushing abortion way down the list:

Nearly half of voters name the economy the top issue facing the country, and those voters back Republicans more than Democrats. No other issue comes close, but many other issues are named most important by about 1 in 10 voters. That includes abortion, health care, climate change and gun policy, where Democrats outpace Republicans by at least three to one.

https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm ... osition_02

[Hawktawk]

Your “former” party is a freaking s*** show. The reason nothing is getting accomplished right now is because of the bat s*** crazy GQP. I never once voted Republican in my life never. However now I will never trust/respect anyone who votes Republican during these times.

I never voted dem till last cycle strictly due to Trump . And Stream get your blinders off . Lots of $H@t shows among the libs. Embrace every kook fringe left wing group . Sanction anarchy in our city streets . Celebration of lifestyles that many Americans are uncomfortable with . Never saw a tax hike they didn’t like, a social program to create on the backs of our great grandkids . Yeah I know the right is welfare for rich . And defending an Anglo Saxon Judeo Christian world view.

One side cares too much about rich people and the other cares about poor and weird and displaced people they force everyone to embrace their political strategy or be called names . They forget about the overwhelming number of constituents that work ,, pay their bills , maintain a home without their hand out . Be generous with other peoples money .

I’m squarely in the center now . I will not reliably support either party . Both are screwed

[RiverDog]

Your “former” party is a freaking s*** show. The reason nothing is getting accomplished right now is because of the bat s*** crazy GQP. I never once voted Republican in my life never. However now I will never trust/respect anyone who votes Republican during these times.

I never voted dem till last cycle strictly due to Trump . And Stream get your blinders off . Lots of $H@t shows among the libs. Embrace every kook fringe left wing group . Sanction anarchy in our city streets . Celebration of lifestyles that many Americans are uncomfortable with . Never saw a tax hike they didn’t like, a social program to create on the backs of our great grandkids . Yeah I know the right is welfare for rich . And defending an Anglo Saxon Judeo Christian world view.

One side cares too much about rich people and the other cares about poor and weird and displaced people they force everyone to embrace their political strategy or be called names . They forget about the overwhelming number of constituents that work ,, pay their bills , maintain a home without their hand out . Be generous with other peoples money .

I’m squarely in the center now . I will not reliably support either party . Both are screwed

I'm with HT on this one. I never NOT voted for an R for national office prior to 2016 when Trump was nominated, didn't vote for him in 2020, and won't ever vote for him even if he were running for dog catcher.

Stream Hawk, if you're not going to trust anyone that voted Republican, then you're going to be living a pretty miserable life. There's going to be well over 100 million people vote in the United States, and if half of them voted Republican, that's 50 million people, or about one out of every four people over the age of 18 that you're not going to trust.

That's one of the problems with today's society. There are too many people that when they find out what your party affiliation is, if it doesn't dove tail with their own, you immediately go on their chit list. It's a worse bias than sex or religion, or at least that's been my experience, and it's getting worse. There's way too much intolerance for opposing points of view.

And BTW, I voted Republican for my Senator and Congressman this cycle. You'd better keep your eye on me as I can't be trusted.

[c_hawkbob]

There is nothing about not trusting "one out of every four people over the age of 18" that should make Stream's life miserable, I trust far fewer than that and I'm just fine.

[Aseahawkfan]

Finally it seems the Republican leadership is starting to turn on Trump.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/10/business/media/trump-fox-news-murdoch.html

Pull your support. Get rid of this guy. Let us all sleep better.

Get behind DeSantis who won't bring the crazy with him to the White House while still being conservative.

[Aseahawkfan]

The point is they have nothing on Biden.

They have things on Biden. His son Hunter is extremely corrupt.

But they won't stick anything on Biden anymore than they have been able to make anything stick on Trump other than some civil lawsuits he is still fighting. It should be obvious that unless you have absolute overpowering control of Congress, sticking something on a president is extremely hard and that is an understatement.

Trump has more on him than Biden by a good measure, yet they still haven't been able to stick him because even with a divided Congress you can block a president from removal.

[RiverDog]

There is nothing about not trusting "one out of every four people over the age of 18" that should make Stream's life miserable, I trust far fewer than that and I'm just fine.

Perhaps miserable was a bad way to put it, so let me say this: IMO it's absurd to think of a person as untrustworthy for no other reason other than they voted for a Republican (or for that matter, a Democrat). If I were guilty of that, to at random consider one out of every four of my fellow human beings as not worthy of my trust, it would make me holier than Thou.

[RiverDog]

Get behind DeSantis who won't bring the crazy with him to the White House while still being conservative.

DeSantis is a joke. Recently, he pulled two political stunts. He shipped several hundred people guilty of nothing more than trespassing some 500 miles just to make a political statement. He also had arrested a number of people that cast an illegal vote (Oh, the horror!), again to make a political statement. He abuses his powers as Governor, uses people as pawns, to score points with his political base. If that's not craziness, I don't know what is.

There is nothing about DeSantis to suggest that he won't adapt Trump-style craziness if he were elected POTUS. Unless the Democratic alternative is completely unacceptable to me, he's not getting my vote.

[Aseahawkfan]

Perhaps miserable was a bad way to put it, so let me say this: IMO it's absurd to think of a person as untrustworthy for no other reason other than they voted for a Republican (or for that matter, a Democrat). If I were guilty of that, to at random consider one out of every four of my fellow human beings as not worthy of my trust, it would make me holier than Thou.

Doubt you'll find sympathy on either side.

My Republican friends were all crying about how "dumb and clueless" Democratic voters are and how they "don't want what's best for the country" and "10% of them want to burn the country to the ground." At the current time there is this idea that each vote for the other party is going to end the country. It's ridiculous BS by people making attributions that are nowhere near true, but you tell them they aren't true and they don't care because they believe it.

I don't for a second believe Democratic voters hate America and want to see the nation destroyed. But a lot of Republican voters vehemently believe the Democratic Party and Democratic voters want to destroy the nation, rewrite its history, turn it socialist, take away their guns, punish white people for their past crimes and replace them, and a variety of other rubbish they've been sold by the media.

And I've heard from Democrats that Republicans are a bunch of uneducated racists and immigrant haters who want to take the nation back to the 1950s and segregate it again. Every right wing organization is racist and they're all White Power organizations.

It's all so much stupid I can barely stand listening to it. I haven't met Democrats looking to destroy America. My Republican friends like to travel the world, married immigrants, and have plenty of non-white friends. They voted Republican for other reasons mostly having to do with Republican media arm successfully selling them that the Democrats and their supporters want to destroy America.

The political media makes money pushing these groups at each other. It's how they hold power. The old Divide and Conquer strategy that has been used by the power groups of nations since time immemorial to profit and take power. Still works in the modern day and probably always will.

[Aseahawkfan]

DeSantis is a joke. Recently, he pulled two political stunts. He shipped several hundred people guilty of nothing more than trespassing some 500 miles just to make a political statement. He also had arrested a number of people that cast an illegal vote (Oh, the horror!), again to make a political statement. He abuses his powers as Governor, uses people as pawns, to score points with his political base. If that's not craziness, I don't know what is.

There is nothing about DeSantis to suggest that he won't adapt Trump-style craziness if he were elected POTUS. Unless the Democratic alternative is completely unacceptable to me, he's not getting my vote.

I don't care if he gets your vote. I want the Trump stink out of the party. DeSantis has a better chance of doing that than most others.

As far as bussing immigrants elsewhere, I guess it's ok when Democrats ship homeless elsewhere. But it's a political stunt when Republicans do it. https://nypost.com/2019/10/26/nyc-homeless-initiative-sends-people-across-us-without-telling-receiving-cities/

You don't pay attention to what's going on within these parties and the stuff each party pulls. I've read your stuff for a while and you completely ignore all the extremist actions by Democrats making it seem like they don't do this stuff. They been doing it. They have absolutely been doing lots of whacky stuff. You seem to think that's ok to vote for. Well, I don't. That's why I don't vote for Trump or Biden.

I don't mind some fight in a conservative leader. DeSantis is using tactics Democrats have been using for quite a while as they manipulate the legal system to punish any of their enemies including using the liberal press to do the same. Liberal press doesn't talk about them bussing homeless outside of Democratic areas or the crime ridden garbage they don't clean up in Democratic run cities and states.

Washington State is a prime example of the Democratic crazy. They literally tell the police not to enforce certain crimes like low level drug crime, vandalism, and theft, then sell us that crime is down when they just cut crime by cutting enforcement of crime. Yet you seem to think these types of tactics and stunts are acceptable, while DeSantis's are not. I don't agree.

We need a conservative leader with some piss and vinegar in him, just not some jackass narcissist who runs the White House like his personal company and isn't a real Republican and doesn't even care about Republican values other than what it gets him.

The Republican Party needs new direction. If DeSantis can take power from Trump, then I'm going to back him. Because the Democrats sure as hell aren't providing a vision of America I want to support and they sure haven't taken Trump down like they keep claiming they were going to do. He's still out there being a jackass.

I don't ignore their crazy like you. I've read what the Democrats are doing. It make DeSantis's stunts pale by comparison.

[Aseahawkfan]

Your “former” party is a freaking s*** show. The reason nothing is getting accomplished right now is because of the bat s*** crazy GQP. I never once voted Republican in my life never. However now I will never trust/respect anyone who votes Republican during these times.

Many Republicans don't trust or respect you for your Democratic vote, so the feeling is mutual.

At the moment all it would take is the wrong leader and this country would be in a Civil War.

I know the Republicans think they would crush the Democrats in a Civil War. Not sure I agree with that as I know gun owning Democrats and ex-military Democrats, but a Civil War in America would even be more brutal than the original given the size of our population.

[Stream Hawk]

Perhaps miserable was a bad way to put it, so let me say this: IMO it's absurd to think of a person as untrustworthy for no other reason other than they voted for a Republican (or for that matter, a Democrat). If I were guilty of that, to at random consider one out of every four of my fellow human beings as not worthy of my trust, it would make me holier than Thou.

Sorry, I was venting a little last night. I of course do respect some Republicans. It’s just the Trumper crowd that I have lost a lot of respect for. I do have a couple of friends and family members that may still support that lunatic. So, of course, I respect other avenues of people’s lives. I just looked the other way when politics I brought up. Unless, of course, I’ve had a few beers than anything is on the table!

And I am not miserable. In fact, Trumpers provide a lot of comic relief.

[I-5]

But that fact means nothing. It isn't going to stop the R's from impeaching him. All you need is a simple majority of the House to agree that Biden is guilty of "treason, bribery, or a high crimes/misdemeanor" in order to impeach a POTUS.

And it certainly isn't going to stop them from setting up various committees to air out some of Biden's dirty laundry...and there's always dirty laundry...on various potential issues, like Hunter Biden, Afghanistan, the DOJ, the southern border, et al. It doesn't necessarily require an impeachment inquiry. The only thing that's going to stop them is that they won't have a governing majority in the House or the Senate. They will stop Biden's agenda, but they're not going to be able to advance very much of their own. Say hello to gridlock, and IMO that's not necessarily a bad thing.

As expected, the economy/inflation was by far the biggest issue cited by voters, pushing abortion way down the list:

Nearly half of voters name the economy the top issue facing the country, and those voters back Republicans more than Democrats. No other issue comes close, but many other issues are named most important by about 1 in 10 voters. That includes abortion, health care, climate change and gun policy, where Democrats outpace Republicans by at least three to one.

https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm ... osition_02

Do you remember what it was you said when the dems impeached Trump? Impeachment is the latest fashion. The more it happens, the less meaning it carries. Having said that, I doubt they'll make the case. They don't have anything like what the dems had on Trump via the Zelensky call.

[Aseahawkfan]

Just to make it clear when I say back DeSantis. I mean if you can vote in your primary to elect the Republican nominee for president, vote for DeSantis. Not because you love the guy or think he's great, but to get rid of Trump. To stop this guy from running again and possibly causing another headache should he lose again.

As far as president, I have no idea if DeSantis can beat a Democratic candidate. I just know if he can beat Trump, vote him as the nominee. If you knock Trump out before he is even nominated, then the Republicans can spend their time fighting amongst each other.

So encourage your Republican friends as I am doing to move their allegiance to DeSantis. Get Trump off the ticket. Don't even let him run again. DeSantis taking the nomination for the Republican Party is far better than Trump getting it.

It's pretty clear Trump fear DeSantis and is already attacking him because if DeSantis takes the Republican nomination, then Trump is all done. Since no one seems to be able to end this guy whether it's the Democrats or the Liz Cheney and the Republicans against Trump, supporting DeSantis for the nomination may be the most sure path of getting rid of Trump.

[Aseahawkfan]

Do you remember what it was you said when the dems impeached Trump? Impeachment is the latest fashion. The more it happens, the less meaning it carries. Having said that, I doubt they'll make the case. They don't have anything like what the dems had on Trump via the Zelensky call.

Republicans have zero change of touching Biden. If they do anything, it will just be for the strategic release of information to influence elections. Battle for the hearts and minds.

Biden is dirty by normal citizen standards, but fairly clean by politician standards.

Most I could find is covering up for his son Hunter and helping his son Hunter and his brothers with business connections in foreign nations as far as access goes. Everyone does that in D.C.

[RiverDog]

Just to make it clear when I say back DeSantis. I mean if you can vote in your primary to elect the Republican nominee for president, vote for DeSantis. Not because you love the guy or think he's great, but to get rid of Trump. To stop this guy from running again and possibly causing another headache should he lose again.

As far as president, I have no idea if DeSantis can beat a Democratic candidate. I just know if he can beat Trump, vote him as the nominee. If you knock Trump out before he is even nominated, then the Republicans can spend their time fighting amongst each other.

So encourage your Republican friends as I am doing to move their allegiance to DeSantis. Get Trump off the ticket. Don't even let him run again. DeSantis taking the nomination for the Republican Party is far better than Trump getting it.

It's pretty clear Trump fear DeSantis and is already attacking him because if DeSantis takes the Republican nomination, then Trump is all done. Since no one seems to be able to end this guy whether it's the Democrats or the Liz Cheney and the Republicans against Trump, supporting DeSantis for the nomination may be the most sure path of getting rid of Trump.

I would vote for DeSantis if it meant getting rid of Trump, and I'd probably vote for him before I'd voted for any of the progressive Dem candidates like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren, but that list is pretty short. He's a clown that doesn't mind using human beings as political props.

[I-5]

If DeSantis becomes the republican nominee in 2024, what does it say about the party that they have 2 clowns as nominees the past 8 years? And the way the electoral college is built, we may well have another clown in office. We deserve it.

[I-5]

If DeSantis becomes the republican nominee in 2024, what does it say about the party that they have 2 clowns as nominees the past 8 years? And the way the electoral college is built, we may well have another clown in office. We will deserve it.

[RiverDog]

If DeSantis becomes the republican nominee in 2024, what does it say about the party that they have 2 clowns as nominees the past 8 years? And the way the electoral college is built, we may well have another clown in office. We will deserve it.

The electoral college is the least of this country's problems. If this country didn't produce so many idiots that lack the ability to process information and separate the wheat from the chaff, a candidate like Trump wouldn't be able to get within spitting distance of the presidency, electoral college or no electoral college. There's nothing magical about the popular vote that causes it to favor the rational candidate.

As far as DeSantis goes, we'll see what happens. It's still a long way until the conventions, and a lot can happen between now and August of 2024. DeSantis is clearly the front runner, and rightfully so. That was one of the most impressive political performances that I've witnessed for a long time. I won't be happy if he gets the nomination, but at least it won't be Trump.

[Hawktawk]

Desantus is downright normal in comparison to Trump but he rode his coat tails and embraced MAGA. And he’s used human lives and a pandemic to score political points with MAGA. No thanks . I’ll never support anyone who ever supported trump . I’ve been the rarest political creature for 6 years now . I was as anti Trump from day one as pro Geno .
I’ll vote for any Republican who voted to impeach trump . Nobody else .

[RiverDog]

Desantus is downright normal in comparison to Trump but he rode his coat tails and embraced MAGA. And he’s used human lives and a pandemic to score political points with MAGA. No thanks . I’ll never support anyone who ever supported trump . I’ve been the rarest political creature for 6 years now . I was as anti Trump from day one as pro Geno .
I’ll vote for any Republican who voted to impeach trump . Nobody else .

I was anti Trump from Day 1, too, so please don't act as if you're some sort of rare creature. There's no one in this place that is as anti Trump as I am. You're just a little more dramatic about it.

But I'm not quite as unforgiving as you are. Everyone makes mistakes, and if a candidate supported Trump simply for political expediency and not because they believed on what he stood for, I could be talked into voting for them.

Tiffany Smiley, the R candidate for Patty Murray's Senate seat, is a good example. I saw in her a bit of a separation from Trump, never sought out his endorsement, and even though she failed to denounce Trump, she gave me an indication that she was not a fervent MAGA supporter like Marjorie Taylor Greene, so I voted for her.

[Aseahawkfan]

If DeSantis becomes the republican nominee in 2024, what does it say about the party that they have 2 clowns as nominees the past 8 years? And the way the electoral college is built, we may well have another clown in office. We will deserve it.

You know if you two sides want to keep referring to each other as "clowns" because I listen to this same garbage about Democrats from my Republican friends, not much is going to get done to make this nation better.

Right now all I heard election day was how "clueless and stupid" Democrat voters are and how they want to "destroy the country" and how they are "pro-crime and anti-America."

So what do you do when each side has decided the other are clueless idiots who vote for idiots and aren't going to bother talking to each other and dealing with each sides legitimate concerns?

Talk about two sides looking to ruin a good thing by making the other side seem far worse than they are mostly due to the media arm of each side pushing really stupid viewpoints to continually divide. At some point Americans have to stop looking across the aisle and seeing nothing but "clueless idiots" and talk about what they want for this nation if they want to make it better.

I don't agree with a lot of your viewpoints or even some of c-bob's or quite a few Democrats. But in no way do I look at you as desiring to destroy America or voting for the worst parts of your party or hating this country. I've always talked to Democrats and listened to what they had to say face to face and I hear some legitimate concerns same as I hear some legitimate concerns form the Republicans.

We have all been watching this game long enough to know that the promises made to particular extreme parts of a political party are not what many of these politicians actually do. They have to stump on the election road to get votes by pandering to certain elements within their party whether it seems like a good idea or not.

Even when these politicians take office, they do not always have control over everything. Humans will do what humans will do and some elements in a given party will exercise their own ideas or push their own agenda in Congress or what not.

So it's best to first take care of the big problem which is the narcissistic ass Trump, then you can take care of the smaller problem meaning DeSanstis and hopefully drive down the rhetoric so people can talk again. All I know for certain is we have nearly no chance of any of compromise or sensible talk with Trump running for office with his cult of personality method of manipulation. DeSantis for all his issues is not a Cult of Personality manipulator, but a politician riding the Trump storm that if he wins the Republican nomination may well bring back some presidential decorum and sense to the Republican Party after he's defeated the loon and can finally act as the leader of the party rather than have to compete for conservative credentials with a fricking lunatic.

That right now is my concern. Someone must take Trump out in the Republican Party, because it sure as hell is looking like he plans to run again and the Democrats for all the talk have not landed the killing blow on this guy and don't look close to do doing so. Them attempting to land it while he's running is just going to rile up his base and make him look like the victim of an evil Democratic plot which could lead to another January 6 or worse from a crazy old man who has not much left to lose.

To me supporting DeSantis if he can take the leadership from Trump is just a true case of the lesser of two evils to tone down the Republican fury and rhetoric to a level where maybe these two sides can start somewhat talking again and put a real politician in office, not a narcisstic loon.

Even c-bob said a while back he would prefer Bush Jr. to Trump in office and DeSantis is far closer to Bush Jr. than he is to Trump in governing style and public speech. He will likely be even more so if he wrests the leadership from Trump and no longer has to pander to Trump or suffer Trump's ridiculous attacks. Someone has to send Trump packing, might as well be someone in his own party.

[Aseahawkfan]

Dems confirmed to have held the Senate.

Now let's see what happens in the House. Much tighter than expected.

I do think the abortion issue was bigger than Republicans thought. It will continue to be as these Republican states make it illegal and threaten more to ban it. Republicans would have done much better if The Supreme Court hadn't overturned Roe vs. Wade. All those conservative justices cost the Republican Party Congress and may continue to cost them as the looney religious right push anti-abortion laws.

[I-5]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/abortion-law-2022-midterm-elections/

Anyone still think the reversal of Roe v Wade had little to no effect on the midterms? Not only do I think it most certainly was on the minds of voters even in states like Kentucky and Montana that were directly voting to maintain access to abortion, republicans shouldn’t be surprised by what happened in senate races like Pennsylvania. To me, that’s what helped topple some republican candidates, and I believe this issue will have legs into the next election. SCOTUS went against a clear majority of Americans when it reversed R v W. This is not a surprise.

[RiverDog]

Dems confirmed to have held the Senate.

Now let's see what happens in the House. Much tighter than expected.

I do think the abortion issue was bigger than Republicans thought. It will continue to be as these Republican states make it illegal and threaten more to ban it. Republicans would have done much better if The Supreme Court hadn't overturned Roe vs. Wade. All those conservative justices cost the Republican Party Congress and may continue to cost them as the looney religious right push anti-abortion laws.

It wasn't a surprise, at least to me, that the Dems were able to hold onto the Senate. They went in with a huge advantage, having to defend just 2/3's of the seats that the R's had to defend. So long as the House falls to the R's, I'm good with a Democratic Senate. Give me gridlock or give me death!

As far as the House goes, it would take a miracle for it not to fall to the R's. The latest numbers show that of the 21 seats still being contested, the R's have 211 seats, or 7 short of a majority, while the D's have 203.

As far as the issues were concerned, all of the exit polling I've seen listed inflation as the top concern, and most of those voters broke for the R's:

Nearly a third of voters said inflation was the issue that mattered most in deciding how they voted for House candidates. And more than 7 in 10 of them opted for Republicans.

Around three-quarters of voters nationally said the economy is “poor” or “not good,” and the same share said that inflation has caused them severe or moderate hardship. About two-thirds said that gas prices have been causing them hardship.

And abortion? It was a significant factor, but I will point out that not everyone that said abortion was an issue for them felt that it should be legal. R respondents overwhelmingly felt it should be illegal in most cases.

Abortion was also a significant factor in the election, with more than a quarter of voters listing it as a top issue. About 61% said they were unhappy with the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, and about 7 in 10 of those voters backed a Democratic House candidate.

About 61% said they were unhappy with the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn Roe v. Wade, and about 7 in 10 of those voters backed a Democratic House candidate.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/08/politics ... index.html

61% being opposed to the RvW decision isn't an overwhelming majority, and most of those that were opposed were going to vote for the Dem anyway. I stand by my original argument, that inflation/the economy/gas prices are the major issues that voters look at.

So, if the R's take the House as it appears that they will, I'll take a video of my touchdown dance and post it on YouTube!

[RiverDog]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/abortion-law-2022-midterm-elections/

Anyone still think the reversal of Roe v Wade had little to no effect on the midterms? Not only do I think it most certainly was on the minds of voters even in states like Kentucky and Montana that were directly voting to maintain access to abortion, republicans shouldn’t be surprised by what happened in senate races like Pennsylvania. To me, that’s what helped topple some republican candidates, and I believe this issue will have legs into the next election. SCOTUS went against a clear majority of Americans when it reversed R v W. This is not a surprise.

I'd have to go back and look at my original statements, but I don't think I ever said that abortion would "have little to no effect." I said that the major issue would be the economy/inflation/gas prices.

Yes, a clear majority were against the Roe v Wade decision, but not an overwhelming majority. As I noted above, 61% of those concerned about abortion were unhappy with the decision. That's not a huge number, especially when you consider that most of those 61% were going to vote Democratic anyway.

One of the issues that did factor in and that contributed to the lower than expected red wave was the threat to democracy and Donald Trump, and that did break for the Dems in almost every case. It certainly made a difference in Arizona, one of the swing states with a close Senate race that tipped to the Dems and likely guarantees them at least a split.

[I-5]

The gist of your pre election comments questioned the longevity of the abortion issue, and whether energy for it would remain into the fall. If not, tell us what you meant. I maintained not only will if linger, it will reach into 2024, or really until Rv W is restored. That’s my POV.

[I-5]

[I'd have to go back and look at my original statements, but I don't think I ever said that abortion would "have little to no effect." I said that the major issue would be the economy/inflation/gas prices.

Yes, a clear majority were against the Roe v Wade decision, but not an overwhelming majority. As I noted above, 61% of those concerned about abortion were unhappy with the decision. That's not a huge number, especially when you consider that most of those 61% were going to vote Democratic anyway.

One of the issues that did factor in and that contributed to the lower than expected red wave was the threat to democracy and Donald Trump, and that did break for the Dems in almost every case. It certainly made a difference in Arizona, one of the swing states with a close Senate race that tipped to the Dems and likely guarantees them at least a split.

I'd say if the economy was the big issue, republicans should have done much better. I do think a repudiation of Trump was a factor, but I think Roe v Wade is bigger than you think. The 2 issues together are powerful. Will be intereting to see if the republicans are ready to dump Trump. It's going to be messy, because Trump is going to try to bring everything down if he goes down. He has no limits.