Trump in a tailspin

[Hawktawk]

New polling shows 61% of republicans want someone else . Desantus beats him by 23 in a poll I saw this morning .

I also read a report that as many as 17 other candidates are weighing a run . Of course that’s how we got him in the first place splitting the anti trump vote . If it was he or Jeb bush jeb would be in his second term .

I anyways thought preibus should have jumped in front of a train .

But trump is down 47-40 to Biden now . Between the midterm and all the nonsense , bizarre sh@t really I think the crazy orange witch might be ding dong dead . We can only hope .

[c_hawkbob]

He's also been publicly non existent since declaring his 24 run. Hell of a way to campaign!

[Hawktawk]

He's also been publicly non existent since declaring his 24 run. Hell of a way to campaign!

Yep . He declared to forestall any indictment of a presidential candidate . Every point he drops in the polls makes it more likely he will be indicted . As a betting man which I’m not I would not expect it but who knows .

[Aseahawkfan]

Good. The less I hear about this guy, the better.

[Hawktawk]

Good. The less I hear about this guy, the better.

Lol

[Stream Hawk]

I was afraid he would announce his running for speaker of the house today. But (insanely) he’s just promoting a stupid, ridiculous superhero trading card. The guy has lost his mind!

[c_hawkbob]

Dude is trolling himself! This is deliciously funny: https://www.yahoo.com/news/knives-alrea ... 43658.html

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm hoping at some point he does so many stupid things the people who voted for him start to ask themselves why they ever believed in this guy.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, things haven't been going well for DJT. Not only has his self inflicted wounds been pushing him into a tailspin, but events beyond his control are also conspiring against him as well. The economy, and more specifically inflation, seems to be moderating some and gas prices are down below what they were even at this time last year. That has caused Biden's job approval numbers to tick up a little bit, to about 44% as of today.

But I'm not counting my chickens before they hatch. We all made that mistake in 2016.

[c_hawkbob]

On the news tonight "a source familiar" with th 1/6 committee has them ready to refer three criminal charges against Trump himself including insurrection and conspiracy to defraud the United States government. That's the heat I believe we're seeing him buckle under.

[Aseahawkfan]

If I had a dime for every story with a "source" or with Cohen or some Trump hater like Conway or Scaramucci saying they're finally going to stick some charges on Trump, I'd be rich.

I'll believe it when I see it. We'll see if Merrick Garland can finally land some charges. Then we'll see how many years it takes to make them stick or do anything with them as Trump's lawyers counter them with a House led GOP not being cooperative to assisting.

Nothing would make me happier than to finally see Trump forced to shut up. At least I'm not seeing him in the news as much. Even his sycophants like IDhawkman have gone silent as they have no arguments with fangs any longer. Trump's all done as far we can tell at this point.

[RiverDog]

I've become insulated and calloused to the outrageousness of the crap that Trump says and does anymore. It's kind of like reading the funny pages or comic magazines. They lost their appeal 50 years ago. It's like laughing at the knock-knock jokes, or why did the chicken cross the road. Trump's behavior has become normal, routine, par for the course. Nothing surprises me anymore.

[Hawktawk]

I've become insulated and calloused to the outrageousness of the crap that Trump says and does anymore. It's kind of like reading the funny pages or comic magazines. They lost their appeal 50 years ago. It's like laughing at the knock-knock jokes, or why did the chicken cross the road. Trump's behavior has become normal, routine, par for the course. Nothing surprises me anymore.

I just remain embarrassed for people who approved of this clown show beyond the early campaign in 2015 . Saw it coming but it’s far worse then I anticipated . I hope he’s charged . He’d be in prison already if he wasn’t the ex potus . He’s on recording tampering with an election. Sedition . Insurrection. Espionage . He’d be in locked up in any other western nation .

[NorthHawk]

There's a story out there that Steve Bannon has dumped Trump in favor of Desantis.
Bannon is the impetus behind all of the chaos and Desantis is just like Trump without the personality disorder. You just have to look at the BS he's done in Florida.

[RiverDog]

There's a story out there that Steve Bannon has dumped Trump in favor of Desantis.
Bannon is the impetus behind all of the chaos and Desantis is just like Trump without the personality disorder. You just have to look at the BS he's done in Florida.

Yeah, that's one of the things that concerns me about DeSantis. But I'm glad Bannon is pushing DeSantis. Anything to drive a wooden stake into that vampire.

[Hawktawk]

There's a story out there that Steve Bannon has dumped Trump in favor of Desantis.
Bannon is the impetus behind all of the chaos and Desantis is just like Trump without the personality disorder. You just have to look at the BS he's done in Florida.

Yeah, that's one of the things that concerns me about DeSantis. But I'm glad Bannon is pushing DeSantis. Anything to drive a wooden stake into that vampire.[/quote]

Have you seen the trump digital collector cards he’s pushing ? I wish I had a link You can’t make it up . Hawking them for 100 bucks a set or something. Bannon commented on them this morning “everyone should be fired . We’re in a war”. Steve buddy it’s your leader that keeps shooting the party in the foot . The clowning of America . What a waste of the longest peacetime economic expansion in history . Imagine had a real Republican been elected . The party better wean down the candidate list to prevent 2016 with this vile pig winning states with 15% . Perfect sh#t storm .

[RiverDog]

Have you seen the trump digital collector cards he’s pushing ? I wish I had a link You can’t make it up . Hawking them for 100 bucks a set or something. Bannon commented on them this morning “everyone should be fired . We’re in a war”. Steve buddy it’s your leader that keeps shooting the party in the foot . The clowning of America . What a waste of the longest peacetime economic expansion in history . Imagine had a real Republican been elected . The party better wean down the candidate list to prevent 2016 with this vile pig winning states with 15% . Perfect sh#t storm .

Yeah, I heard about the trading cards but didn't pay much attention to them. I could care less.

Bannon has pretty much given up Trump and is a non-factor. He has his own problems to worry about as he's likely facing jail time.

[c_hawkbob]

Have you seen the trump digital collector cards he’s pushing ? I wish I had a link You can’t make it up . Hawking them for 100 bucks a set or something. Bannon commented on them this morning “everyone should be fired . We’re in a war”. Steve buddy it’s your leader that keeps shooting the party in the foot . The clowning of America . What a waste of the longest peacetime economic expansion in history . Imagine had a real Republican been elected . The party better wean down the candidate list to prevent 2016 with this vile pig winning states with 15% . Perfect sh#t storm .

It's 99 bucks per card, per pretend card at that! And yes it's absolutely hilarious! I linked the story when it happened on Thursday, a dozen or so posts up.

[Aseahawkfan]

It's 99 bucks per card, per pretend card at that! And yes it's absolutely hilarious! I linked the story when it happened on Thursday, a dozen or so posts up.

The real question did any of the Trump lovers around you buy his NFTs for their favorite president? I'm betting idhawkman has a whole set of Trump NFTs so he can support the best president of his lifetime.

[RiverDog]

This is the type of garbage that's going to cause me not to support DeSantis:

DeSantis calls for grand jury investigation of COVID vaccines

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is calling for a grand jury investigation into alleged “crimes and wrongdoing” related to COVID-19 vaccines and setting up Florida’s own Public Health Integrity Committee.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... -vaccines/

At this point, if DeSantis is the Republican nominee, I'm voting for Biden.

[Aseahawkfan]

This is the type of garbage that's going to cause me not to support DeSantis:

DeSantis calls for grand jury investigation of COVID vaccines

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is calling for a grand jury investigation into alleged “crimes and wrongdoing” related to COVID-19 vaccines and setting up Florida’s own Public Health Integrity Committee.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... -vaccines/

At this point, if DeSantis is the Republican nominee, I'm voting for Biden.

If Trump is gone, I don't care who becomes president. I'll probably vote for on confidence again. These candidates suck.

[Hawktawk]

This is the type of garbage that's going to cause me not to support DeSantis:

DeSantis calls for grand jury investigation of COVID vaccines

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) is calling for a grand jury investigation into alleged “crimes and wrongdoing” related to COVID-19 vaccines and setting up Florida’s own Public Health Integrity Committee.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watc ... -vaccines/

At this point, if DeSantis is the Republican nominee, I'm voting for Biden.

He’s Ronny deathsantis . He’s trying to shape the narrative he did a great job losing 60k people or whatever .

Spare the stats trumanzees , I’m ready .

Frankly I’m not sure there shouldn’t be an investigation of every damn thing about our coronavirus response . He would be part as would trump and Biden’s response as well .

I’ve had 4 shots . Had the crap twice and I’m not a weak sickly person at all . Big strong dude. So I think it’s not bad to look back . Grand jury ? That’s where deathsantis loses me . It’s called running to the Trumpanzee right in the primaries and a teeny bit to the center in the general . It’s the part trump forgot . ABT. Anyone but Trump . Ronny Deathsantus is a a smart politician , a veteran and would be a big improvement but so was Joe Biden and that ought to tell you how bad Trump was . The cards just show what a carnival barking clown he is . I’m embarrassed for my friends that still look up to this clown .

[RiverDog]

He’s Ronny deathsantis . He’s trying to shape the narrative he did a great job losing 60k people or whatever .

Spare the stats trumanzees , I’m ready .

Frankly I’m not sure there shouldn’t be an investigation of every damn thing about our coronavirus response . He would be part as would trump and Biden’s response as well .

I’ve had 4 shots . Had the crap twice and I’m not a weak sickly person at all . Big strong dude. So I think it’s not bad to look back . Grand jury ? That’s where deathsantis loses me . It’s called running to the Trumpanzee right in the primaries and a teeny bit to the center in the general . It’s the part trump forgot . ABT. Anyone but Trump . Ronny Deathsantus is a a smart politician , a veteran and would be a big improvement but so was Joe Biden and that ought to tell you how bad Trump was . The cards just show what a carnival barking clown he is . I’m embarrassed for my friends that still look up to this clown .

I think that there should be a thorough investigation into the response, too. But the vaccines were the least of our problems. We've already developed the world's best standard for medical review. Now, DeSantis wants to set up his own state commission to review what the USDA has done. There has to be one controlling agency. We can't have 50 different states setting their own standards. And why stop at vaccines? Why not other food and drugs?

He's doing this as a political stunt to get attention and fire up his base.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump had charges recommended against him. Now let's see if Garland can stick them on him. Should keep Trump in the press for a while if they go to trial.

[RiverDog]

Trump had charges recommended against him. Now let's see if Garland can stick them on him. Should keep Trump in the press for a while if they go to trial.

No way any of this sticks, not that it isn't all true. How the heck can they ever select an impartial jury? Even if this wasn't Trump, everyone is going to have a biased opinion, one way or another, of a former POTUS.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah which hacks me greatly . He should be judged by the military as former commander in chief . But my anger is that any other western nation would have jailed the guy long ago. Why are they untouchable kings here even when their term is up . Slam his ass in jail and maybe the next guy with think twice . The American presidency is out of control .

[RiverDog]

Yeah which hacks me greatly . He should be judged by the military as former commander in chief . But my anger is that any other western nation would have jailed the guy long ago. Why are they untouchable kings here even when their term is up . Slam his ass in jail and maybe the next guy with think twice . The American presidency is out of control .

Sad, but true. I've lost confidence in our democratic system. There are times that I would rather be ruled by a monarch than I would an elected POTUS, and this is one of those times. We are a nation of idiots.

[Hawktawk]

We are ruled by elected monarchs . I’ve lost faith too river although I must say this Trump
Fueled face plant in the mid terms gave me some hope . There’s no big hue and cry from the Republican Party to the recommendation on charges by the Jan 6 committee . I haven’t even seen armed goons out protesting . Maybe it’s really over .

[Aseahawkfan]

If this nation is run poorly, it's because we the people have lost our way. The politicians are benefitting from our stupidity. We have control, but can't coordinate to exercise it.

[RiverDog]

If this nation is run poorly, it's because we the people have lost our way. The politicians are benefitting from our stupidity. We have control, but can't coordinate to exercise it.

That's the weakness of a democracy, and what a lot of the founding fathers were afraid of, that the common folk weren't smart enough to be trusted with something as important as a ballot. We are led by the ignorant masses.

[c_hawkbob]

If this nation is run poorly, it's because we the people have lost our way. The politicians are benefitting from our stupidity. We have control, but can't coordinate to exercise it.

That's the weakness of a democracy, and what a lot of the founding fathers were afraid of, that the common folk weren't smart enough to be trusted with something as important as a ballot. We are led by the ignorant masses.

No, it's the weakness a democracy corrupted by unchecked capitalism. Take the corporate contributions, pacs and lobbyists out of the equation, give us ranked choice voting and mandated equal press coverage, campaign financing and advertising of fairly selected qualified candidates and democracy would be working just fine. Campaign finance reform is key. Right now money is driving everything, and making the rules to keep it that way.

[Aseahawkfan]

No, it's the weakness a democracy corrupted by unchecked capitalism. Take the corporate contributions, pacs and lobbyists out of the equation, give us ranked choice voting and mandated equal press coverage, campaign financing and advertising of fairly selected qualified candidates and democracy would be working just fine. Campaign finance reform is key. Right now money is driving everything, and making the rules to keep it that way.

A lot of those reforms are needed. They would at least improve some of this. We really need to tamp down on for profit political media/entertainment.

We're pretty far from unchecked capitalism. We live in a heavily regulated, high tax capitalist society with availability to massive amounts of information and we still cannot get things done that would be good for the nation and recently voted in a reality TV star loon that seemingly intelligent people voted for. When you're taking an average of 20% or more of the productive activity of the vast majority of Americans with sales, property, and state and federal income tax and more taxes, you are not dealing with unchecked capitalism. We have massive regulation and taxation of business at the local, state, and federal level.

You talk to these folks like I do. You have to see how many are ridiculously ill-informed on a wide variety of issues. We have to write for an 8th grade reading level for the widest possible information delivery. If someone can only read at an 8th grade level, can they really make a quality informed decisions on complex matters of government? I'm thinking likely not. In fact, I can't think of a period in this nation's history or any nation for that matter where it occurred and we are probably the closest.

It is documented history that a small minority of humans have always carried us forward in government, technology, science, economics, and just about everything due to the inequity of intelligence, education, and all things associated. Until we see some leaders step forward that can put us on a better path by gaining the trust of enough of the masses, we're stuck.

Then again, we're living better than most of the world. Americans tend to be taught to be unhappy with their lot because we want constant improvement. We have one of the highest standards of living in the world, especially for the size of the nation. I still think much of the unhappiness of people is media driven. Nothing has been more poisonous than for profit political media. That needs to be tamped down at some point. For profit political media is terrible for a nation, not as bad as the media being owned by the government like China or Russia, but still pretty damn divisive and disruptive to a nation.

[RiverDog]

A lot of that stuff you guys are talking about would require a Constitutional amendment. Take campaign finance reform. The Supreme Court for decades has ruled that money equals speech and that any law passed would be subject to the first amendment that protects free speech:

Buckley v. Valeo, 424 U.S. 1 (1976), was a landmark decision of the US Supreme Court on campaign finance. A majority of justices held that, as provided by section 608 of the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971, limits on election expenditures are unconstitutional. In a per curiam (by the Court) opinion, they ruled that expenditure limits contravene the First Amendment provision on freedom of speech because a restriction on spending for political communication necessarily reduces the quantity of expression. It limited disclosure provisions and limited the Federal Election Commission's power. Justice Byron White dissented in part and wrote that Congress had legitimately recognized unlimited election spending "as a mortal danger against which effective preventive and curative steps must be taken".[1]

Buckley v. Valeo was extended by the U.S. Supreme Court in further cases, including in the five to four decision of First National Bank of Boston v. Bellotti in 1978[2] and Citizens United v. Federal Election Commission in 2010.[3] The latter held that corporations may spend from their general treasuries during elections. In 2014, McCutcheon v. Federal Election Commission held that aggregate limits on political giving by an individual are unconstitutional.[4]

By some measures, Buckley is the longest opinion ever issued by the Supreme Court.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckley_v._Valeo

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buckley_v._Valeo

This government is so divided that they couldn't agree on the time of day, let alone pass an amendment that requires 2/3's of Congress and 2/3's of the states. Wish on one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up first.

There is no short term fix. The long term fix would be educating our public so they know how to process information and not be so subject to the 15 second political ad or the social media memes.

[c_hawkbob]

This guy, who knows a lot more about federal law than any of us do, absolutely thinks Trump could serve time in prison. In fact if convicted:

“I don’t know that a district judge would have any choice but to sentence the former president to imprisonment under the terms and provisions of these various offenses,” retired U.S. Court of Appeals Judge J. Michael Luttig said

https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-feder ... 35748.html

[Aseahawkfan]

I would love to see Trump go to jail. Send a strong message to the next guy. I'm doubtful they'll get him, but he sure deserves it for his brazen disregard of the Constitution and basic decency as a human being and a leader. His selfishness is unbelievable to risk such chaos in America for nothing more than his personal pride.

There are very few metrics showing that Americans are living a bad life, especially so compared to the rest of the world. It's utterly stupid to want to tear up the country for the pride of wealthy lunatic that spread lies for most of his time in office.

I'm glad most of his sycophants are pulling his teeth, even some of his early supporters and followers. Hannity just straight up said he didn't buy Trump's BS on the stand. Pence is done with him. And quite a few of his early supporters are starting to push the clay-foundation "king" over. Most are tired of his antics. Even a lot of my Trump supporting buddies no longer even talk about the guy as they know he's likely done.

[RiverDog]

This guy, who knows a lot more about federal law than any of us do, absolutely thinks Trump could serve time in prison. In fact if convicted:

“I don’t know that a district judge would have any choice but to sentence the former president to imprisonment under the terms and provisions of these various offenses,” retired U.S. Court of Appeals Judge J. Michael Luttig said

https://www.yahoo.com/news/former-feder ... 35748.html

I agree completely with the premise, that a judge would have no choice but to sentence Trump to prison, but there's a catch that he doesn't mention:

Before any sentencing, Trump would first have to be convicted, and that would require 12 impartial jurists all agreeing that he's guilty. Where are you going to find 12 impartial jurors? I read the entire article, and nowhere in it is there any mention of the difficulties any trial would have in trying to select an impartial jury that would all set aside their political bias and vote to convict.

Trump will never spend a minute of his life behind bars.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump may not see jail.

I see a lot of his backers leaving him. The news doesn't seem to be covering him as closely as before. Seems like a lot of Republicans are tired of his whine fest. I'm betting the big money backers don't like chaos that might lead to a Civil War as no one makes much money in a Civil War.

[RiverDog]

Trump may not see jail.

I see a lot of his backers leaving him. The news doesn't seem to be covering him as closely as before. Seems like a lot of Republicans are tired of his whine fest. I'm betting the big money backers don't like chaos that might lead to a Civil War as no one makes much money in a Civil War.

If I had to bet, I'd bet that you're right. There is no doubt that Trump is on a downward trend, and a lot of the big money backers are pulling back. I'm certainly not happy with DeSantis and am unlikely to support him, but he's one helluva lot better option than Trump.

Trump's not going to jail. I'd bet the farm on it. Even if we could put him behind bars, I'm not sure that would be the best move for the nation. That's what banana republics do to their former leaders. Get as much documented as we can so that history remembers him correctly as a POS.

[NorthHawk]

On the other side of the coin can you let a former President who tried to overthrow a legal and fair election go free?
That precedent would mean any following President could do just about anything and get away with it. Massive corruption at that level means a banana republic as well.
It's a tough spot to be in for the Justice Dept and the results of their decisions will have big implications however it turns out. A true double edged sword.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think it would show a stronger nation and a clear line if Trump ended up in jail myself. I don't think it would signal banana Republic at all. It would show justice at the highest level.

I think the bigger problem is you haven't placed past presidents in office for criminal behavior or accusations. Nixon didn't see jail for Watergate. Reagan or Bush didn't see jail for the Iran-Contra situation. Clinton didn't see jail for lying on the witness stand or Whitewater or any of the dirty crap he did. Cheney didn't see jail for any of his dirty moves mostly because he made them legal before doing them.

So do you jail Trump for all of his crap which many other politicians have done some of at various points? The precedent would lead to a lot more jailing of politicians. American politicians are off the rails and the American people have not been able to stop them or slow them much. About the best the American people have done is make them more careful.

My thinking on the matter is they have to get Trump for something they can't get other politicians for doing or they set themselves up for jail time which very few of them want to do. The Democrats like having the jail or crime card over Trump for marketing purposes, but don't want to actually use it because if they do then Democrats will start going to jail for all the dirty stuff they do.

That's what a lot of Democrats who hope to see Trump in jail don't want to accept: their party is very dirty too. Democrats do plenty of borderline unethical and criminal behavior as well. Powerful Republicans can dig that dirt up and stick it on them if they stick it on a Republican. So you end up in a tit for tat political war where both sides are sending the other side to jail. I doubt any of them want that. I don't think Republicans or Democrats want a tit for tat "end up in prison" political war.